GOP gambled on a fiscal crisis, and are losing that gamble

Republicans in Washington took a gamble — a wise gamble, they thought at the time. Believing that Barack Obama was vulnerable and that control of the Senate was well within their grasp, they put off tough negotiations on tax and budget issues until after the 2012 elections, believing that they would then have the momentum, the votes and the power to remake the federal government as they saw fit.

They lost that bet, and they’re now having to come to grips with the consequences. The fiscal crisis that they sought has now arrived, and they find themselves at a significant political disadvantage. The results of a new ABC News/Washington Post poll demonstrate why:

cliff

By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more. (And let’s remember, the proposed increase is hardly draconian. For a couple with $350,000 in taxable income, it would represent a tax increase of $4,600, or 1.3 percent of their income.)

By even larger margins, Americans reject the conservative option of raising the age at which Americans are eligible for Medicare coverage. And while those numbers tell us a lot about why Republicans are having such a hard time selling their argument, worse news lurks deeper in the bowels of that poll:

intern

Even among self-described conservatives, 47 percent support raising taxes on those Americans doing best in this economy. Among those who call themselves very conservative, the number supporting that tax increase is 45 percent. Americans making $100,000 or more support higher taxes on the wealthy by a 15-point margin. Washington Republicans may be playing to the most vocal portion of their base on this issue, but for everybody else, this is a loser.

Raising the Medicare-eligibility age draws even stronger across-the-board rejection. In fact, Republicans and the “very conservative” reject it by the same two-to-one margin as the rest of America. If Republicans in Congress want to make that the hill on which they choose to fight, good luck to them.

The argument in favor of raising the eligibility age of Medicare and Social Security is two-fold. One is purely financial — by putting off the date on which people are eligible, taxpayers save a lot of money. The second is based on the premise that American lifespans are getting longer, which in turn allows us to push the retirement age off.

However, while that is true for upper-income Americans, it is much less true for those on the lower half of the income distribution scale.

Source: http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/workingpapers/wp108.html; chart by Jay Bookman

Source: http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/workingpapers/wp108.html

For whatever reason, less affluent Americans have not seen the large improvement in lifespan enjoyed by their countrymen. That’s due in part to the more physically demanding nature of the jobs they often fill, in part to less access to health care and in part to lifestyle differences. Whatever the reason, the differential is significant. Lower-income Americans — in most cases people who have worked hard all of their lives — arrive at age 65 in worse physical shape than their counterparts, and for them, deferring retirement is a real hardship.

And as the poll above demonstrates, many in that situation are probably conservative Republican voters.

– Jay Bookman

432 comments Add your comment

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:07 pm

Erskine Bowles: ‘The Probability Is We’re Going Over The Cliff’ HP.

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:09 pm

HDB

November 28th, 2012
12:12 pm

If Obama has any sense, he’ll call the GOP’s bluff, let the nation have a “Thelma and Louise” moment and go over the cliff…..THEN get Congress to acquiese to his tax plans…otherwise, the GOP will be exposed for what they really are and have been: OBSTRUCTIONISTS!!

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:16 pm

Our President wants voters to contact their reps to tell them what the 2 k tax increase on the middle class will hurt them.

The gop agree to middle class tax cuts so there is no reason not to get this done first.

Paul

November 28th, 2012
12:17 pm

The latest Republican to say they need to ‘reassess’ their position and raise taxes on the wealthy is Oklahoma Rep Tom Cole. Guy spent a good part of his life involved in polling, he’s from conservative Oklahoma…. he sees what the ideologues don’t.

Funny how gamblers never seriously entertain the notion they could lose.

Hey Republicans in Congress: you lost your bet.

Pay up.

Or getalife will call you out as welchers.

Aquagirl

November 28th, 2012
12:22 pm

Calling Republicans clueless is the understatement of the year.

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:22 pm

“Or getalife will call you out as welchers.”

I don’t think we should take the gop seriously until they start acting for all the American people and not just the wealthy.

I think they will stay the course until they disband after the next election.

barking frog

November 28th, 2012
12:22 pm

The fiscal cliff is when UI benefits expire and folks go hungry.
Just fight for the unemployed.

gtt

November 28th, 2012
12:23 pm

Closed loopholes, and capped deductions raise about as much as raising rates on everyone, right? And 96 percent of that would come from the top 2 percent of earners, right? Or is that all horsepucky, Jay? Do that and cut the bloated defense budget, along with entitlement reform and we’re getting somewhere.

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2012
12:24 pm

clem

November 28th, 2012
12:25 pm

if we go over the cliff due to repubs intransigence, then the marginal rates need to go higher or construct the amt to go after their benefactors, who are not job creators.

F. Sinkwich

November 28th, 2012
12:26 pm

One has to admire The GOP in a way. They’re like that foolish kid with his finger in the dyke, trying to keep his country from flooding.

Idealistic? Yep. But they should understand that it’s too late; the majority has spoken.

He who robs Peter to pay Paul gets Paul’s vote. The Paulista’s have spoken. The leeches have latched on to the golden egged goose and will never let go. Well, they will when it’s dead I guess. But they are fatally myopic.

America is over. Resistance is futile.

RIP USA 1776-2012

Paul

November 28th, 2012
12:28 pm

gtt

New deductions and exemptions can be slipped right back in future appropriations bills with little notice.

Can’t do that with rate changes.

And, I haven’t heard that Republicans have given any indication they’ll move off their ‘no Defense cuts, ever’ stance.

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2012
12:28 pm

Jay, the blog is acting up. It takes forever to post.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 28th, 2012
12:29 pm

Why 60% of the people must not understand “job creators”….

Wonder if the conned will note that 57% of those earning over 100k support raising taxes.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 28th, 2012
12:29 pm

Cue teeny-tiny violins for Fishy.

indigo

November 28th, 2012
12:30 pm

It’s hard to know exactly how this will turn out.

I would guess Republicans will fight Obama tooth and nail until the last minute, forcing a quickie deal that will hurt everyone and help no one. Then, they will say it’s all Obama’s fault and their simple electorate will, of course, believe evey word they say.

Hey, is this a great country or what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Donovan

November 28th, 2012
12:31 pm

You pompous SOB. They, they, they…blame, blame, blame. Class envy, class envy, class envy. How dare you!

You and your party of Democrats have created such a disdainful campaign of hate and division that it corrupts the very social fabric of this country.

Utterly shameful and abhorrent. The Democrat Party is solely the architect of this American division and hateful feeling.

Based on your electoral victory, spending cuts will not enforced. Spending will continue and taxation of only the wealthy will be pursued. This ridiculous course of government management is immoral and criminal.

This liberal euphoria will be your undoing.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

November 28th, 2012
12:32 pm

I’m hoping that Obama won’t fold with a Full House hand.

He’s cautious by nature, but a little gambling on his part will help this nation get back on its feet.

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:32 pm

We called welchers in Vegas dead men walking. They are buried in the desert.

Nero

November 28th, 2012
12:32 pm

There will be no deal because the leeches will balk at spending cuts. The Cliff will be like a breath if fresh air. Only the leeches think the sky will fall.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 28th, 2012
12:33 pm

The ticking you hear is Donovan’s head ’sploding. Meltdown………

UGA ECONOMICS MAJOR

November 28th, 2012
12:33 pm

republicans cant accept the changing of the country and the world…and will be the party of the forgotten much like the 8 track tape player…the 1950,s dont work in the 21st century

alittlecommonsense

November 28th, 2012
12:33 pm

Newsflash!!! By overwhelming margins, Amrericans think someone else should have to pay more taxes!

Breaking News – Hot off the Wire!! Americans don’t want to give up any of their benefits!

Mick

November 28th, 2012
12:33 pm

sink

Your version of america may be dead but…long live the newer, improved, model…

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:34 pm

filky,

I see you have not seen your doctor for meds for your depression.

You should be monitored.

East Lake Ira

November 28th, 2012
12:34 pm

Elections have consequences.

Shut up or I’ll shoot you in the face.

the cat

November 28th, 2012
12:34 pm

F. Sinkwich-I will bet you are real fun at parties, Chicken Little.

Jay

November 28th, 2012
12:34 pm

“You and your party of Democrats have created such a disdainful campaign of hate and division that it corrupts the very social fabric of this country.”

That sentence, from Donovan of all people, made me laugh right out loud.

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:34 pm

don.

Are you okay?

Jefferson

November 28th, 2012
12:35 pm

Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions unless you are are republican.

True that.

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 28th, 2012
12:36 pm

White House: Obama to meet Romney Thursday

Unemployed Romney: “Good afternoon.”
Pres Obama: “Dude, we totally cleaned the floor with your campaign.”

Alex

November 28th, 2012
12:36 pm

Interesting, Ok consider means testing the medicare age. Dems about split on deduction issue while repubs are pretty much against reducing deductions….Hmmm…

Time for leadership by The president that some of the entitlements have to be cut, while the repubs acceptthat taxes will go up…Gives the repubs cover (hey, this is what they want, ok with me as I am their rep, ain’t I). Can’t solve the finances of this country with taxing alone. FARM SUBSIDIES TO NEBRASKA, that’s a start….

Paul

November 28th, 2012
12:36 pm

Nero

“There will be no deal because the leeches will balk at spending cuts”

Yeah, those Defense contractors and their employees, oil and gas companies and their employees, middle and upper middle class constituents working at duplicative government agencies sure wield a lot of political power, don’t they?

Mick

November 28th, 2012
12:37 pm

**The Democrat Party is solely the architect of this American division and hateful feeling.**

Wrong on both counts; republicans fight for the rich and everyone else be damned. They’re especially good at tax cuts during unfunded wars sending the middle class soldiers to death and amputation.
The hateful feeling solely comes from within, therapy might help…

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 28th, 2012
12:38 pm

Donovan, the tax man is on his way to your house. Run and hide!

Joe Hussein Mama

November 28th, 2012
12:39 pm

Donovan — “You and your party of Democrats have created such a disdainful campaign of hate and division that it corrupts the very social fabric of this country.”

I’ll see your whine and raise you years and years of conservative eliminationist rhetoric.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:40 pm

It is obvious there is no deal because our President is focused on middle class tax cuts. It is the only thing they can pass.

The needless and senseless gop regulation of the fiscal cliff will be over for our President’s second term and the economy will be free of that idiotic gop regulation.

Brosephus™

November 28th, 2012
12:40 pm

The Democrat Party is solely the architect of this American division and hateful feeling.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I don’t recall the Democratic Party members encouraging their followers to yell down congresspeople at town hall meetings instead of being civil and discussing things like grown people. You continue to live in that LegoLand that you’ve created for yourself. :lol:

Thulsa Doom

November 28th, 2012
12:42 pm

Holy cow. Jay thinks the Rs are to blame for lack of progress in debt reduction? It doesn’t get any more Orwellian than that.

Grasshopper

November 28th, 2012
12:43 pm

Is there any news here?

Of course people have no problem raising taxes — on other people.
Of course people don’t want their benefits reduced.

Making tough decisions is what we hire polititicians – of both parties – to do. And they usually fail miserably at making any smart decisions. That is why true conservatives think the less government interference, the better.

Jay, thanks for the graphs and info...

November 28th, 2012
12:44 pm

…now, please explain how muchincreased taxing of the above $250K earners will bring in, and how much that money will benefit the country in its quest to balance the budget – take as many years to balance as you see fit, but use only the “increased” taxes on the “wealthy” to arrive at this number…you can even use or not use the supposed “spending cuts” to arrive at this number…

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 28th, 2012
12:45 pm

So now the really conned call a cow their lord and savior?

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:45 pm

doomy,

There is progress with going over the cliff.

nero is happy.

Thulsa Doom

November 28th, 2012
12:45 pm

being civil and discussing things like grown people? So those leftist OWS folks were civil adults you could have a discussion with?

ObamasNoLeader

November 28th, 2012
12:46 pm

And yet, still no change in style from the President. The power of the president is to persuade and he can’t do it effectively through a tele-prompter and cameras. He, yes, Obama must get in a room and work out a deal. That’s what leaders do. Obama has shown he isn’t one time and time again, yet Dems blame Republicans. A personal outreach goes a long way. Any failure is his own.

F. Sinkwich

November 28th, 2012
12:46 pm

“republicans cant accept the changing of the country and the world…and will be the party of the forgotten much like the 8 track tape player…”

I fear you’re correct, UGA.

National elections from here on out will no longer be about policy and politcal philosophy differences, but merely a debate about which party can most efficiently administer a declining welfare state.

RIP USA 1776-2012

Nero

November 28th, 2012
12:46 pm

I’m excited about the Cliff. It’s just the start. :)

John Konop

November 28th, 2012
12:46 pm

This is what seems rational to me. BTW I bet the committee of CEO’s will support the same approach. How many of you would support this frame work? Does anyone really think we can afford not to make cuts to Medicare and make adjustments to SS?

………..Two years ago the Fiscal Commission, chaired by Democrat Erskine Bowles and former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson, proposed every basic element of the fiscal cliff solution being discussed today.

Their plan was a mixture of higher taxes, lower spending and the reform of Medicare and Social Security. Both men told us that sacrifice has to come from everyone.

“All of us have to have some skin in the game to get it done,” Bowles said.
“It’s called, ‘If you want something, pay for it,’” Simpson added. “It’s a sick idea, but it is an interesting idea.”

Their biggest idea was to increase revenue by combining both President Barack Obama’s demand for higher taxes on the rich and the Republican proposal to get rid of tax loopholes. The Bowles-Simpson proposal would eliminate almost every tax deduction for individuals and corporations, with only a few exceptions for charity donations and home mortgage interest.

“This stuff goes to the wealthiest people in America — 20 percent of the American people use 80 percent of that stuff,” Simpson said.

“We have $1.1 trillion of loopholes, of backdoor spending, in the tax code,” said Bowles. “And that’s what we said — let’s start with a plan that wipes those out.”

The plan also called for deep spending cuts — $200 billion a year — and streamlined both the Pentagon and the federal bureaucracy. Medicare and Social Security would, over time, reduce benefits given to higher-income families.

“I think most people understand that Medicare has to be part of the deal, and most people believe today that you ought to do Social Security on a parallel track,” Bowles said………

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57553425/once-rejected-bowles-simpson-proposals-back-in-play/

Brosephus™

November 28th, 2012
12:47 pm

Of course people have no problem raising taxes — on other people.

Yep, Georgia Republicans have been doing that for years. They simply call it fees and the sheeple eat it up.

Alex

November 28th, 2012
12:47 pm

Yes. you’re right, you won
dude, we cleaned…
Yes, you’re right, you won.
dude,we cleaned….
Got it, now how can I help with supporting our return to fiscal sanity
dude,we cleaned….
Hello, Mr. Biden
dude, we cleaned….
Yes, yes,now about this USA expense report from the CBO
dude, we cleaned…..

Music: “send in the clowns”….

stands for decibels

November 28th, 2012
12:48 pm

Erskine Bowles: ‘The Probability Is We’re Going Over The Cliff’ HP.

Erskine Bowles: “I am a horrible old man who, like Alan Simpson, inherited my wealth/political influence and hate the notion of proles allowed to live in any kind of comfort whatsoever.”

getalife

November 28th, 2012
12:48 pm

RIP gop 1776-2014

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

November 28th, 2012
12:48 pm

Well, one thing Bookman’s charts tell you is, working real hard will kill you. Why, people that work hard drop like flies in a DDT storm. That’s the reason why I take lots of breaks. And that’s the reason why I want little Nathan Zell George to get schooled good so he can set on his butt in a comfy office chair and smoke 3-buck cigars and call others leeches and such.

Anyhow, like Bookman points out, sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose some. I never minded much brushing Zicky Zickafoose’s shoes down at the warehouse when I lost the bet that Romney would be President. That Mormon sucker went down like a lead balloon and it’s all my fault for putting any faith in him at all. I won’t never vote for somebody that ain’t a Southren Baptist again. I’m just glad now I never promised to kiss Zicky’s butt if Romney lost.

I guess I’ve strayed off topic and now I forgot what the topic on here is. Anyhow, have a good p.m. everybody.

Brosephus™

November 28th, 2012
12:49 pm

So those leftist OWS folks were civil adults you could have a discussion with?

OWS folks copycatted the Tea Party People. Try again dude… You can play equivalence all day, but as you and others like to portray your party as grown ups, you act more like whiney children.

JamVet

November 28th, 2012
12:50 pm

America is over mindless right wing claptrap.

RIP Neocons 1980-2012.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 28th, 2012
12:51 pm

Obama is meeting Romney tomorrow? Hmmm, maybe the President wants Mitt to be the new Ambassador to Libya…

Wait a minute

November 28th, 2012
12:51 pm

Bumping Medicare age, like Social Security, is a no-brainer (which is why large number of entitlement bound Americans and liberals reject it). Medicare came in around 1965 (average life expectancy in US at that time, 70.2. Today the average life expectancy is 78.7). 8.5 additional years of payments (during the most expensive health care portion of one’s life) is hundreds of thousands of dollars on average). The Medicare tax has to be raised substantially just to pay for that. It’s just plain old math, which drives liberals nuts. As with ALL government programs, we have to find ways to REDUCE spending, not increase.

We are waking up from a good solid 50 years of excessive spending, with most of it occuring in the last 5-6 years. Stop before it’s too late….

stands for decibels

November 28th, 2012
12:51 pm

Two years ago the Fiscal Commission, chaired by Democrat Erskine Bowles and former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson,

…and can we please stop referring to a nonexistent “Simpson Bowles Commission Report”? There is no such thing. The “Commission” never issued a report. The two disgusting, hateful, larcenous old men simply concocted a memo on their own without the required support of the actual commission members, who (thankfully) never came to any agreement that could garner a sufficient majority.

BRW

November 28th, 2012
12:52 pm

” That is why true conservatives think the less government interference, the better.”
And so did the robber barons. Not that child labor and all was such a bad thing…..

Thulsa Doom

November 28th, 2012
12:52 pm

Yes! We can! The lord and savior Obama can! And the sheep chimed in ” hope and change, hope and change!”

hamiltonAZ

November 28th, 2012
12:52 pm

‘…arrive at age 65 in worse physical shape than their counterparts, and for them, deferring retirement is a real hardship.’
Haven’t seen the stats to support this, but I suspect that the Ryan plan for SS/Medicare played a larger than expected role in shrinking the Republican advantage among middle-aged folks. They’re doing the math and see their pay stubs where SS/Medicare has been paid since they were young and hearing ages like 67 and 69 being tossed about as eligibility ages. Based on your charts, Jay, they are looking at a 10-12 year benefit, max. If they think it through a little more, their healthy, wealthy counterparts are getting an extra 60%

Alex

November 28th, 2012
12:52 pm

@ John, agree. Sen. Simpson is one of the most even-keeled (and funny) senators, a goood grasp of non-PC reality,Forward!

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 28th, 2012
12:52 pm

now, please explain how muchincreased taxing of the above $250K earners will bring in, and how much that money will benefit the country in its quest to balance the budget

first, your premise is wrong – the thing of utmost importance right now IS NOT balancing a budget.

Nero

November 28th, 2012
12:53 pm

No, he just wants Mitt to carry his water. Mitt should tell him to eat his magic underwear.

Paul

November 28th, 2012
12:53 pm

Jay, thanks for the graphs and info…

Where did you ever get the idea that the sole purpose of a tax increase is to completely pay off a debt?!!?

stands for decibels

November 28th, 2012
12:54 pm

(average life expectancy in US at that time, 70.2. Today the average life expectancy is 78.7).

Calling BS. Without even bothering to look it up, I can say with 99% probability that life expectancy from age of retirement has certainly *not* increased by 8½ years since 1965.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 28th, 2012
12:54 pm

Actually Brosephus, I have to disagree. I think overall OWS was more adult when they were not being targeted by overzealous law enforcement. And their response there was often very commendable (e.g. sitting while sprayed with pepper spray). There are exceptions and there are a lot of unsubstantiated claims, just as the tea party likes to claim that a spitting did not happen, or if it did, it was just overzealous yelling.

BRW

November 28th, 2012
12:54 pm

“I’m excited about the Cliff. It’s just the start. :)
See how the troll smiled when you fed him? Now STOP THAT!

Erwin's cat

November 28th, 2012
12:54 pm

you act more like whiney children.

why can’t I have a pony?
seriously i see few similarities between the two groups

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 28th, 2012
12:56 pm

“By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more.”

Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it won’t make a difference and will actually hurt growth.

Thulsa Doom

November 28th, 2012
12:56 pm

Bro,

sure buddy. the tea party folks were raping, defecating on cop cars, rioting and destroying property, assaulting cops, and getting arrested literally by the thousands. ludicrous.

hamiltonAZ

November 28th, 2012
12:57 pm

‘…arrive at age 65 in worse physical shape than their counterparts, and for them, deferring retirement is a real hardship.’
Haven’t seen the stats to support this, but I suspect that the Ryan plan for SS/Medicare played a larger than expected role in shrinking the Republican advantage among middle-aged folks. They’re doing the math and see their pay stubs where SS/Medicare has been paid since they were young and hearing ages like 67 and 69 being tossed about as eligibility ages. Based on your charts, Jay, they are looking at a 10-12 year benefit, max. If they think it through a little more, their healthy, wealthy counterparts are getting an extra 60%.
Of course, one would have to factor in the possibility that some in the lower income distribution group (due to environmental factors: smoking, fast food, etc) would, in their short period of eligibility, cost Medicare far more than their healhy, wealthy counterparts. These enviromental factors are not limited to one group or the other, but, broadly speaking, and looking at the mortality data, it is reasonable to assume they impact the lower income group to a greater degree.

Mick

November 28th, 2012
12:57 pm

doom
**It doesn’t get any more Orwellian than that.**

I would posit karl rove’s claim that obama suppressed the vote just might be more…

JamVet

November 28th, 2012
12:58 pm

So those leftist OWS folks were civil adults you could have a discussion with?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4od4QQVK1o

Nero

November 28th, 2012
12:58 pm

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 28th, 2012
12:59 pm

which is why large number of entitlement bound Americans and liberals reject it

Cons want to fix the economy by hitting the elderly and the poor. Sounds like Cons to me!

“Take it from the old people and the poor people, don’t take it from those of us who are WORKING”

Grasshopper

November 28th, 2012
1:00 pm

“Yep, Georgia Republicans have been doing that for years. They simply call it fees and the sheeple eat it up.”

Exactly how many years have the R’s been in power in Ga?

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

November 28th, 2012
1:00 pm

Holy Cow!

That Donovan post was a hoot.

DannyX

November 28th, 2012
1:01 pm

“He who robs Peter to pay Paul gets Paul’s vote.”

BREAKING….Paul Convicted of Fraud.

Paul was sentenced to 30 years in a federal prison for trying to pay back a loan to Peter with Tax cuts. Paul borrowed 1.5 trillion dollars from Peter so Paul could start 2 wars and fund his socialist Medicare Part D drug program. Paul was arrested after he tried to pay back the loan from Peter with tax cuts. Paul will do his time in a federal insane asylum because the jury ruled that he was insane. One jury member said after the verdict, ” It’s just crazy that someone could think they could spend all that money then try to pay it back with tax cuts.”

Brosephus™

November 28th, 2012
1:01 pm

Keep

I personally think both groups were acting like whiney assed kids. That’s just my opinion though. I’m not saying that they were not protesting valid ideas. I just don’t care for the methods that either group used. Personally, I would have preferred grown up conversation attempted first. Then, resort to the yelling and civil disobedience if you can’t get someone to respond to dialogue.

—————————

EC

I see lots of similarity between both groups. I simply brought up the Tea Party townhall response to disprove Donovan’s idea that the Democratic Party is the only responsible party for the current division. There’s enough blame to spread between all groups.

getalife

November 28th, 2012
1:01 pm

The blog is crashing.

Need better servers.

Mr Right

November 28th, 2012
1:02 pm

By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more. (And let’s remember, the proposed increase is hardly draconian. For a couple with $350,000 in taxable income, it would represent a tax increase of $4,600, or 1.3 percent of their income.)

By even larger margins, Americans reject the conservative option of raising the age at which Americans are eligible for Medicare coverage. And while those numbers tell us a lot about why Republicans are having such a hard time selling their argument, worse news lurks deeper in the bowels of that poll:

Yea, this last election pretty much told us where we are headed! People are getting the mindset that it’s ok to take from those that worked hard to earn a lot and that everyone is entitled to whatever they think they need! Socialism?

Mr Right

November 28th, 2012
1:02 pm

By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more. (And let’s remember, the proposed increase is hardly draconian. For a couple with $350,000 in taxable income, it would represent a tax increase of $4,600, or 1.3 percent of their income.)

By even larger margins, Americans reject the conservative option of raising the age at which Americans are eligible for Medicare coverage. And while those numbers tell us a lot about why Republicans are having such a hard time selling their argument, worse news lurks deeper in the bowels of that poll:

Yea, this last election pretty much told us where we are headed! People are getting the mindset that it’s ok to take from those that worked hard to earn a lot and that everyone is entitled to whatever they think they need! Socialism?

Brosephus™

November 28th, 2012
1:03 pm

Doom

You can wallow in that sh*thole all by yourself bro. I’m not going there with you today. K?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 28th, 2012
1:03 pm

“What, Me Worry?” ………… the resemblance to Alfred E. Neuman is striking !

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57555761/fiscal-cliff-meet-the-bully-pulpit/

Grasshopper

November 28th, 2012
1:04 pm

“Cons want to fix the economy by hitting the elderly and the poor. Sounds like Cons to me!”

The definition of poor in the Obama economy is only one flat screen, an iPhone 3 and an EBT card. It’s good to be poor in America.

The rest of us just pay for it all.

stands for decibels

November 28th, 2012
1:04 pm

the tea party folks were raping, defecating on cop cars,

When you have to lie to make a point…

Paul

November 28th, 2012
1:05 pm

0311

“Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it won’t make a difference and will actually hurt growth.”

CIte?

You have one, I presume?

‘Cause I have one from Nov 8 that says “Allowing income tax rates to rise for wealthy Americans, and maintaining rates for the less affluent, would NOT (emphases added) hurt U.S. economic growth much in 2013, the Congressional Budget Office said on Thursday, stepping into a dispute between Republicans and Democrats over how to resolve the so-called “fiscal cliff.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/09/us-usa-fiscal-cbo-idUSBRE8A71D020121109

You usually demonstrate more finesse when you’re angling for the Kamchak Award -

John Konop

November 28th, 2012
1:05 pm

You said:

…… We are waking up from a good solid 50 years of excessive spending, with most of it occurring in the last 5-6 years. Stop before it’s too late….

Truth:

Most of the spending was baked in by Medicare Part D, with no money to pay for it, Medicare and Military.

Beyond indexing the quickest fix would be to allow seniors and government employees to buy drugs at the VA. It is about 50% less expensive and would save tax payers massive amounts of money. We must cut back on the policemen of the world foreign policy.

getalife

November 28th, 2012
1:05 pm

Our President will take it to the American people as promised so the gop will lose the next election too.

The gop are leaderless and learned nothing from their loss as usual.

RIP gop.

Brosephus™

November 28th, 2012
1:05 pm

Exactly how many years have the R’s been in power in Ga?

Long enough to have improved things better than where they are now. I’ve only lived here since 2000. However, the very Republicans that are in charge now are some of the same Democrats who simply switched parties.

getalife

November 28th, 2012
1:06 pm

Term limits work.

Erwin's cat

November 28th, 2012
1:08 pm

,i>it would represent a tax increase of $4,600, or 1.3 percent of their income.

how about ..or another 1.3% of their income….

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

November 28th, 2012
1:09 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
“By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more.”

Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it won’t make a difference and will actually hurt growth.

.
.
.

That’s simply not true, Mr. Digits

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/09/15053167-cbo-higher-taxes-on-rich-wont-harm-economy

Turn of the Landslide, Landslide, Landslide network and do your homework.

Grasshopper

November 28th, 2012
1:10 pm

“Yea, this last election pretty much told us where we are headed! People are getting the mindset that it’s ok to take from those that worked hard to earn a lot and that everyone is entitled to whatever they think they need! Socialism?”

Sandra needs her free pills brother!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 28th, 2012
1:11 pm

“………….. not hurt U.S. economic growth MUCH (emphasis added) in 2013 ………”

…………….. as opposed to doing something that would help it GROW !

Geez !

Erwin's cat

November 28th, 2012
1:11 pm

Ben The Independent

November 28th, 2012
1:11 pm

To my liberal friend Jay; I suggest going over the cliff. Let’s see what the economy does when huge changes work on reducing the huge debt. I think the end result would be much better in the long term. I don’t think the libs have any leverage on this issue. More and more leaders are considering that the cliff is not that bad.

Chip

November 28th, 2012
1:12 pm

There’s nothing magical about age 65, just as there’s nothing magical about the year 1972 used in the chart. Medicare used that age in 1965 because Social Security used it 30 years earlier. We are living much longer now than when 65 was set as the retirement age. Even the chart shows that the poorer 50% live two more years since 1972, and if Obamacare succeeds in expanding health insurance and getting people to commit to more preventive care, that life expectancy gap should close. Raising the age for Social Security and Medicare is a common-sense approach to addressing the long-term financial problems of both of those programs. Heck, it was common sense 25 years ago.