GOP gambled on a fiscal crisis, and are losing that gamble

Erskine Bowles: ‘The Probability Is We’re Going Over The Cliff’ HP.

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If Obama has any sense, he’ll call the GOP’s bluff, let the nation have a “Thelma and Louise” moment and go over the cliff…..THEN get Congress to acquiese to his tax plans…otherwise, the GOP will be exposed for what they really are and have been: OBSTRUCTIONISTS!!

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The latest Republican to say they need to ‘reassess’ their position and raise taxes on the wealthy is Oklahoma Rep Tom Cole. Guy spent a good part of his life involved in polling, he’s from conservative Oklahoma…. he sees what the ideologues don’t.

Funny how gamblers never seriously entertain the notion they could lose.

Hey Republicans in Congress: you lost your bet.

Pay up.

Or getalife will call you out as welchers.

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“Or getalife will call you out as welchers.”

I don’t think we should take the gop seriously until they start acting for all the American people and not just the wealthy.

I think they will stay the course until they disband after the next election.

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Closed loopholes, and capped deductions raise about as much as raising rates on everyone, right? And 96 percent of that would come from the top 2 percent of earners, right? Or is that all horsepucky, Jay? Do that and cut the bloated defense budget, along with entitlement reform and we’re getting somewhere.

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if we go over the cliff due to repubs intransigence, then the marginal rates need to go higher or construct the amt to go after their benefactors, who are not job creators.

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gtt

New deductions and exemptions can be slipped right back in future appropriations bills with little notice.

Can’t do that with rate changes.

And, I haven’t heard that Republicans have given any indication they’ll move off their ‘no Defense cuts, ever’ stance.

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Why 60% of the people must not understand “job creators”….

Wonder if the conned will note that 57% of those earning over 100k support raising taxes.

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It’s hard to know exactly how this will turn out.

I would guess Republicans will fight Obama tooth and nail until the last minute, forcing a quickie deal that will hurt everyone and help no one. Then, they will say it’s all Obama’s fault and their simple electorate will, of course, believe evey word they say.

Hey, is this a great country or what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I’m hoping that Obama won’t fold with a Full House hand.

He’s cautious by nature, but a little gambling on his part will help this nation get back on its feet.

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There will be no deal because the leeches will balk at spending cuts. The Cliff will be like a breath if fresh air. Only the leeches think the sky will fall.

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republicans cant accept the changing of the country and the world…and will be the party of the forgotten much like the 8 track tape player…the 1950,s dont work in the 21st century

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sink

Your version of america may be dead but…long live the newer, improved, model…

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Elections have consequences.

Shut up or I’ll shoot you in the face.

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Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions unless you are are republican.

True that.

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Interesting, Ok consider means testing the medicare age. Dems about split on deduction issue while repubs are pretty much against reducing deductions….Hmmm…

Time for leadership by The president that some of the entitlements have to be cut, while the repubs acceptthat taxes will go up…Gives the repubs cover (hey, this is what they want, ok with me as I am their rep, ain’t I). Can’t solve the finances of this country with taxing alone. FARM SUBSIDIES TO NEBRASKA, that’s a start….

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**The Democrat Party is solely the architect of this American division and hateful feeling.**

Wrong on both counts; republicans fight for the rich and everyone else be damned. They’re especially good at tax cuts during unfunded wars sending the middle class soldiers to death and amputation.
The hateful feeling solely comes from within, therapy might help…

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Donovan — “You and your party of Democrats have created such a disdainful campaign of hate and division that it corrupts the very social fabric of this country.”

I’ll see your whine and raise you years and years of conservative eliminationist rhetoric.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/

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The Democrat Party is solely the architect of this American division and hateful feeling.

I don’t recall the Democratic Party members encouraging their followers to yell down congresspeople at town hall meetings instead of being civil and discussing things like grown people. You continue to live in that LegoLand that you’ve created for yourself.

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Is there any news here?

Of course people have no problem raising taxes — on other people.
Of course people don’t want their benefits reduced.

Making tough decisions is what we hire polititicians – of both parties – to do. And they usually fail miserably at making any smart decisions. That is why true conservatives think the less government interference, the better.

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So now the really conned call a cow their lord and savior?

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being civil and discussing things like grown people? So those leftist OWS folks were civil adults you could have a discussion with?

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“republicans cant accept the changing of the country and the world…and will be the party of the forgotten much like the 8 track tape player…”

I fear you’re correct, UGA.

National elections from here on out will no longer be about policy and politcal philosophy differences, but merely a debate about which party can most efficiently administer a declining welfare state.

RIP USA 1776-2012

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This is what seems rational to me. BTW I bet the committee of CEO’s will support the same approach. How many of you would support this frame work? Does anyone really think we can afford not to make cuts to Medicare and make adjustments to SS?

………..Two years ago the Fiscal Commission, chaired by Democrat Erskine Bowles and former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson, proposed every basic element of the fiscal cliff solution being discussed today.

Their plan was a mixture of higher taxes, lower spending and the reform of Medicare and Social Security. Both men told us that sacrifice has to come from everyone.

“All of us have to have some skin in the game to get it done,” Bowles said.
“It’s called, ‘If you want something, pay for it,’” Simpson added. “It’s a sick idea, but it is an interesting idea.”

Their biggest idea was to increase revenue by combining both President Barack Obama’s demand for higher taxes on the rich and the Republican proposal to get rid of tax loopholes. The Bowles-Simpson proposal would eliminate almost every tax deduction for individuals and corporations, with only a few exceptions for charity donations and home mortgage interest.

“This stuff goes to the wealthiest people in America — 20 percent of the American people use 80 percent of that stuff,” Simpson said.

“We have $1.1 trillion of loopholes, of backdoor spending, in the tax code,” said Bowles. “And that’s what we said — let’s start with a plan that wipes those out.”

The plan also called for deep spending cuts — $200 billion a year — and streamlined both the Pentagon and the federal bureaucracy. Medicare and Social Security would, over time, reduce benefits given to higher-income families.

“I think most people understand that Medicare has to be part of the deal, and most people believe today that you ought to do Social Security on a parallel track,” Bowles said………

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57553425/once-rejected-bowles-simpson-proposals-back-in-play/

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Yes. you’re right, you won
dude, we cleaned…
Yes, you’re right, you won.
dude,we cleaned….
Got it, now how can I help with supporting our return to fiscal sanity
dude,we cleaned….
Hello, Mr. Biden
dude, we cleaned….
Yes, yes,now about this USA expense report from the CBO
dude, we cleaned…..

Music: “send in the clowns”….

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RIP gop 1776-2014

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So those leftist OWS folks were civil adults you could have a discussion with?

OWS folks copycatted the Tea Party People. Try again dude… You can play equivalence all day, but as you and others like to portray your party as grown ups, you act more like whiney children.

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Obama is meeting Romney tomorrow? Hmmm, maybe the President wants Mitt to be the new Ambassador to Libya…

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Two years ago the Fiscal Commission, chaired by Democrat Erskine Bowles and former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson,

…and can we please stop referring to a nonexistent “Simpson Bowles Commission Report”? There is no such thing. The “Commission” never issued a report. The two disgusting, hateful, larcenous old men simply concocted a memo on their own without the required support of the actual commission members, who (thankfully) never came to any agreement that could garner a sufficient majority.

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Yes! We can! The lord and savior Obama can! And the sheep chimed in ” hope and change, hope and change!”

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@ John, agree. Sen. Simpson is one of the most even-keeled (and funny) senators, a goood grasp of non-PC reality,Forward!

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No, he just wants Mitt to carry his water. Mitt should tell him to eat his magic underwear.

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(average life expectancy in US at that time, 70.2. Today the average life expectancy is 78.7).

Calling BS. Without even bothering to look it up, I can say with 99% probability that life expectancy from age of retirement has certainly *not* increased by 8½ years since 1965.

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“I’m excited about the Cliff. It’s just the start. ”
See how the troll smiled when you fed him? Now STOP THAT!

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“By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more.”

Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it won’t make a difference and will actually hurt growth.

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‘…arrive at age 65 in worse physical shape than their counterparts, and for them, deferring retirement is a real hardship.’
Haven’t seen the stats to support this, but I suspect that the Ryan plan for SS/Medicare played a larger than expected role in shrinking the Republican advantage among middle-aged folks. They’re doing the math and see their pay stubs where SS/Medicare has been paid since they were young and hearing ages like 67 and 69 being tossed about as eligibility ages. Based on your charts, Jay, they are looking at a 10-12 year benefit, max. If they think it through a little more, their healthy, wealthy counterparts are getting an extra 60%.
Of course, one would have to factor in the possibility that some in the lower income distribution group (due to environmental factors: smoking, fast food, etc) would, in their short period of eligibility, cost Medicare far more than their healhy, wealthy counterparts. These enviromental factors are not limited to one group or the other, but, broadly speaking, and looking at the mortality data, it is reasonable to assume they impact the lower income group to a greater degree.

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So those leftist OWS folks were civil adults you could have a discussion with?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4od4QQVK1o

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which is why large number of entitlement bound Americans and liberals reject it

Cons want to fix the economy by hitting the elderly and the poor. Sounds like Cons to me!

“Take it from the old people and the poor people, don’t take it from those of us who are WORKING”

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Holy Cow!

That Donovan post was a hoot.

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Keep

I personally think both groups were acting like whiney assed kids. That’s just my opinion though. I’m not saying that they were not protesting valid ideas. I just don’t care for the methods that either group used. Personally, I would have preferred grown up conversation attempted first. Then, resort to the yelling and civil disobedience if you can’t get someone to respond to dialogue.

—————————

EC

I see lots of similarity between both groups. I simply brought up the Tea Party townhall response to disprove Donovan’s idea that the Democratic Party is the only responsible party for the current division. There’s enough blame to spread between all groups.

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By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more. (And let’s remember, the proposed increase is hardly draconian. For a couple with $350,000 in taxable income, it would represent a tax increase of $4,600, or 1.3 percent of their income.)

By even larger margins, Americans reject the conservative option of raising the age at which Americans are eligible for Medicare coverage. And while those numbers tell us a lot about why Republicans are having such a hard time selling their argument, worse news lurks deeper in the bowels of that poll:

Yea, this last election pretty much told us where we are headed! People are getting the mindset that it’s ok to take from those that worked hard to earn a lot and that everyone is entitled to whatever they think they need! Socialism?

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Doom

You can wallow in that sh*thole all by yourself bro. I’m not going there with you today. K?

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“Cons want to fix the economy by hitting the elderly and the poor. Sounds like Cons to me!”

The definition of poor in the Obama economy is only one flat screen, an iPhone 3 and an EBT card. It’s good to be poor in America.

The rest of us just pay for it all.

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0311

“Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it won’t make a difference and will actually hurt growth.”

CIte?

You have one, I presume?

‘Cause I have one from Nov 8 that says “Allowing income tax rates to rise for wealthy Americans, and maintaining rates for the less affluent, would NOT (emphases added) hurt U.S. economic growth much in 2013, the Congressional Budget Office said on Thursday, stepping into a dispute between Republicans and Democrats over how to resolve the so-called “fiscal cliff.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/09/us-usa-fiscal-cbo-idUSBRE8A71D020121109

You usually demonstrate more finesse when you’re angling for the Kamchak Award -

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Our President will take it to the American people as promised so the gop will lose the next election too.

The gop are leaderless and learned nothing from their loss as usual.

RIP gop.

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Term limits work.

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0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
“By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more.”

Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it won’t make a difference and will actually hurt growth.

.
.
.

That’s simply not true, Mr. Digits

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/09/15053167-cbo-higher-taxes-on-rich-wont-harm-economy

Turn of the Landslide, Landslide, Landslide network and do your homework.

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“………….. not hurt U.S. economic growth MUCH (emphasis added) in 2013 ………”

…………….. as opposed to doing something that would help it GROW !

Geez !

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To my liberal friend Jay; I suggest going over the cliff. Let’s see what the economy does when huge changes work on reducing the huge debt. I think the end result would be much better in the long term. I don’t think the libs have any leverage on this issue. More and more leaders are considering that the cliff is not that bad.

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So should someone in their 20’s or 30’s – you know, starting out in their professional lives if you will, honestly expect to ever receive social security or a pension? Those concepts seem like they will have long died by the time we retire. Wait, retire? That’s not necessarily a foreseeable option either. We’re having to plan ahead for their not being a social safety net. Perhaps more of y’all should have done that as well. But we’ll keep paying into your system while you cost more and more.

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As usual the focus is on Tax Tax Tax. Nothing about Cut Cut Cut. So the plan to reduce Trillion dollar deficits is to increasing revenues by a mere $100 billion. Yeap that government math for you.

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Never let a crisis go to waste is the mantra of the Obama gang. We have a shiftless president too lazy to lead blaming just the republicans in the house and no one else for all of the problems he has been too lazy or shiftless or incompetent to handle. We have a president who sneers you didn’t build that to hard working Americans–a president who hustled over a billion in tax obligations from those same hard-working Americans to implement his stimulus program which provided no stimulus because he had other plans for the money than the shovel-ready jobs he lied about. No jobs and a gad-about president who probably does not know which end of a shovel is which—yet.

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“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”

― Alexis de Tocqueville

The end is nigh leeches.

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The gop are ignoring the American voters again.

The gop will not make it.

RIP gop.

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Brosephus,

Why not move out to a liberal bastion such as California, where the policies may be a better fit for you? They have the debt and high taxes that you may be looking for.

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Retired Boomer leech prognostications about the demise of Republicans are hilarious.

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@ jamvet:RRRRRRRRRRR, oh wait, I can’t miss my flight for a FOOTBALL game RRRRRRRRRRRRRR OCCUPY LUCAS FIELD RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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Obstructionist democrats driving america over the cliff

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1. Let Bush-era tax cuts expire on all households with $500,000 or more in earnings.
2. Eliminate most tax loopholes.
3. Implement a minimum tax rate of 23% on income from all sources for households with income in excess of $1 million.
4. Eliminate the cap for social security payroll deductions
5. Require that Medicare negotiate drug prices with the Pharmaceutical companies.
6. Impose severe prison sentences for Medicare fraud including asset forfeiture.
7. Require that ALL tax cheats have their names published.

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So what is your point?

Is English not your first language? My point is exactly what the poster I was quoting said. People have no problem with increasing taxes on other people. Is that not what the GOP does here? Does it matter which party does it if they both do the same thing?

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True, and there are pictures to prove it. Thulsa-weren’t you there?

over the acts of a TINY, TINY, TINY few

Sigh. I probably shouldn’t get sucked into this ridiculous sub-thread, but whenever some rightie plays the “OWS raped! and they pooped! for realz!” it is tempting.

‘cuz last I bothered to look, apparently out of all the OWS encampments over the course of several months–remember, these were generally open to literally anyone who wished to crash there–there were a couple of documented instances of sexual assault.

Now if one were to follow all the people who participated in TeaPer events back home, and see if any of them engaged in some criminal activity of a similar nature, I’d say the odds are around 100% that you’d find *something* you could pin on them. Of course Tea Party rallies weren’t encampments, so it’s an apples:oranges thing.

as for the ridiculous “pooping on police cars” (plural!)–of course there was one gag photo someone took of a guy with his pants down leaning against a squad car. Thus a million legends were born.

and I suspect a guy like Thulsa knows this and doesn’t much care that he’s BSing us.

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Paul – that portrayal is at odds with itself a bit…it seems to provide cherry picking material for both sides

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@ regnad, The president didn’t exactly make both sides of the isle feel included in the final health care act. Anyone got a Camel?

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Listen,this country is bankrupt

Listen, no it is not.

We are the richest, most powerful nation ever on this planet.

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” But we’ll keep paying into your system while you cost more and more.”

“As usual the focus is on Tax Tax Tax. Nothing about Cut Cut Cut.”

The cons have gone over the reality cliff.

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I guess it’s time once again to post this handy dandy guide.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/8-facts-prove-our-govt-not-going-broke?page=0%2C1&paging=off

Debt is only too high if the underlying economy is shaky. Investors all over the world are betting that the U.S. is the strongest, most stable nation right now, and over the long haul. They expect our economy to grow which automatically will shrink the debt ratio. It’s simple math. Economy up, debt down as a percentage of the economy (all other things being equal).

Despite what you hear from nearly every media outlet and every politician, investors do not see our debt as dangerously high. They are more than willing to pour money into the most stable, dynamic economy in the world – one that is both safe now, and likely to grow in the future.

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DB says it isn’t real.

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guy

Mostly we lefties simply want to insure that we won’t revert to the supply side goofiness that got us in this mess in the first place.

You got a problem with that?

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“What makes you think I’m a liberal and want liberal policies?”

Kinda funny how liberals don’t want to be called that.

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Many here you’re addressing that to remember having the same discussions when they were in their 20s and 30s.

yep.

Only difference was, back then it wasn’t a stated Republican goal to end SS/Medicare as we now know it.

yeah, but there’ve been right wing elements trying to dismantle these very successful public institutions from the moment they were instituted, doing their best to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt.

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@Nero – I also notice how you and those like you NEVER engage in a discussion of FIT history. So once again I will provide the link: http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets
Just scroll down to the Eisenhower years when the highest FIT was 91%. Sales taxes averaged about 2%. Now the highest FIT rate is 35% and sales tax rates have tripled. The wealthy are paying taxes at the lowest rate in more than 60 years while most Americans are paying sales taxes, fuel taxes, etc. at the highest rates in history.

Deal with the taxes and cut defense spending. How’s that, Nero?

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In thumbing through the posts, I saw one by Bookman who said he laughed right out loud. Typical liberal behavior. He was laughing because someone dared to offer an opinion contrary to his.

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Raising taxe$ in a recession is the dumbest thing any leader can “accomplish.” The fact is that King Hussein Obama piled on trillions of dollar$ in new ObamaDebt which we will pass on to our great grandkids. We need fiscal responsibility NOW. Why do we have to pay for this ridiculous ObamaDebt? Why? Amen, Bill

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Posturing and vote-buying (from both sides) got us here, but it won’t get us out of here. The cliff doesn’t scare me as much as the lack of consideration for the nation’s well-being. Tough choices MUST be made. There isn’t enough income tax revenue available to eliminate the deficit. Even if you tax the top 2% at 75% or more, it won’t offset the overspending authorized by this government. (And they’ll leave–see France.) Revenues and expenses must be equalized, at worst. Revenues must be increased. Defense must be cut, but so must entitlements. I’m OK with returning to Clinton-era taxes if we can also go to Clinton-era spending. The budgetary elephants are in entitlements which have built-in increases due to actuarial issues. More people are becoming eligible than we’ll soon be able to support, and increases in geriatric health compounds the issue. I’m fine with leaving the current benefits as is, or to make phased changes by age, for everyone 55 and over. (I’m under.) But we need a sustainable plan for younger Americans. I don’t have all the answers, but clearly, the current governmental occupants prefer to stand in a corner throwing raspberries at each other while the rest of us want them to work it out. For us. Simpson-Bowles is a start. But it’s only a start. More debt is not an option.

Go Dawgs!

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Mick

What part of “Romney lost by 3 million votes” doesn’t she understand?

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I’ve changed my mind at raising taxes. Raise them all….have the country go in the crapper. Raise them so companies, governments, and universities will have to lay off overpaid college professors, union presidents, actors and actresses, overpaid columnists, and pro athletes.

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Check email Brocephus. I’ll bet you have some hate mail……..

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bookmanisaliar

November 28th, 2012
1:42 pm

I’ve changed my mind at raising taxes. Raise them all….have the country go in the crapper. Raise them so companies, governments, and universities will have to lay off overpaid college professors, union presidents, actors and actresses, overpaid columnists, and pro athletes.
+++++++++++++++

Sounds about as brilliant as anything else the Republicans have suggested. Thanks for playing.

Now hush, the grown ups are talking.

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Recon

“The snake oil of taxing upper income earners as the nations financial panacea will become a tired worthless argument that the voters will no longer accept.”

Whoever said it was a panacea?

Besides you?

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You can tell a lot about people who want to raise the age for Medicare eligibility to 67. I can tell you first hand what it will cost the average couple for 2 years of Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Well over $150,000 in premiums alone. When I reached age 60 and my wife was 56, our BC/BS premium rose to $2950/mo. even though we raised deductibles and co-pays. That was several years ago. I can only imagine what those premiums would be today. TMI? Certainly more than I wanted to share, but necessary in order to give you the facts!

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“Whoever said it was a panacea?”
Paul, that’s all Obama’s been talking about in specifics unless you have something that says otherwise. Does he have a plan?

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bookmanis — “Raise them so companies, governments, and universities will have to lay off overpaid college professors”

What do you think you know about how much college professors make?

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As a 6 figure income earner though a great deal less than $250k/yr, I am ALL FOR keeping the tax cuts in place for all but the top 2%. But you know what??? Should these clowns not reach a deal and my taxes go up with everyone else’s because of this so-called “cliff”, you WON’T hear me walking around or come out here even – beyyotchin’ and complainin’.

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Erwin’s @ 1.46 — Ah, I see, thanks for showing your work. Kind of strange that there’s quite so much a disparity in IMF numbers as reported by your site, and what wiki shows. (I followed the latter’s link but… well, I kinda got losted.)

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Nero

If you ever expect to make it to the ninth grade, stop posting here and start concentrating on your homeschool studies.

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Here is something just for Dell and the rest of you butt hurt Republicans who are still in denial.

http://tinyurl.com/ct6yxkp

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N-GA

Ouch, ouch and ouch.

Been thinking of you and your family in that regard when another event occurred within my family. I do hope everything is well.

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Dharma Bum

Reduced by nearly 40%?

Any idea how to accomplish that?

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Donovan
I just saw the angry & utterly vapid lines of BS you posted at 12:31.
It hasn’t been the Democratic party that has pushed “wedge issues” & become the party of social conservatism these past 30 years. As they wooed those voters, the republicans lost the moorings that had bound them to their original truer conservative roots.
Get a grip!

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“There aren’t enough people making over $250,000 to help offset the out of control spending the government pushes through”

*sigh*

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…to provide stats for how much the taxes on those making $250K or more would amount – maybe you are still calculating, so I will continue to be patient. However, I will give you a hint – I heard on some show today that “all that tax money from those wealthy cats making above $250K” will run the government for EIGHT WHOLE DAYS – can you disprove this number?

Inquiring minds would like to know so that we can believe those charts that you so gratuitously supplied to prove your talking points on this topic…

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Recon

I understood your assertion to be Obama views tax hikes as a panacea, with no other actions required.

I understand you later said ‘in specifics’ but he put it out there. Seems to me the onus is more on Republicans who’ve been repeating the mantra of entitlement reform. Yet they’ve put out as much in specifics as has the Pres.

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Paul – Always good to hear from you. I do observe this blog (vicariously, usually). Little has changed on the blog so I prefer to try to make a difference in other ways. Funny how facts seem to have so little impact on many people who allow religious beliefs to dictate their every action.

The home front is stable…thank you for your thoughts. Mine are with you & yours…..

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We need some inflation.

And another Stimulus.

And cuts to Defense.

And more tax revenue from the rich and the Finacial sector.

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East Lake Ira

November 28th, 2012
2:15 pm

We need some inflation.

And another Stimulus.

And cuts to Defense.

And more tax revenue from the rich and the Finacial sector.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That’s a decent start Ira, but we also need cuts in entitlement spending as well as foreign aid and corporate welfare. As a matter of fact, we need to find cuts in everything the Government funds. Thoughtful cuts, not just mindless slashing.

But you had a good start. Here’s a gold star to take home to mommy.

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Since the Dems/Libs have convinced most everyone that taxing the rich will solve the problems, I’ll be waiting to see how they will blame the republicans for it’s failure……you know it’s coming…….

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Paul,

They’ve proposed capping deductions for the wealthy and reducing their entitlement benefits. Those proposals should I think be specific enough for reciprocating proposals beyond extending Bush era tax reductions for those earning less than 250K and discontinuing those reductions for incomes in excess of that amount. Those tax increases would only achieve revenue of about 802 billion over 10 years an insignificant increase.

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Just raise the taxes and get it over with…….what are you waiting on?…..The timing has to be just right maybe?

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How do we get the failed gop out of the way of our economy?

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Ira – hilarious site! My favorite headline:

Wisconsin GOP to arrest ObamaCare implementers

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Rank Country GDP – per capita (PPP) (US$)
1 Liechtenstein 141,100
2 Qatar 104,300
3 Luxembourg 81,100
4 Bermuda 69,900
5 Monaco 63,400
6 Singapore 60,500
7 Jersey 57,000
8 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) 55,400
9 Norway 54,200
10 Brunei 50,000
11 Hong Kong 49,800
12 United States 49,000

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@stands: if you don’t refer to this site again, I PROMISE never to EVER mention FOX-anything, even the animal, even Foxy Brown…….

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We need to stop spending so much money on things that take lives (military) and use that money to save lives (better infrastructure, cures for deseases, etc).

Eliminate the wage cap on SS. Increase the capital gains tax. Place a small tax on all stock transactions. Eliminate tax loopholes.

The poor in this country did not cause this fiscal mess and they shouldn’t have to pay for it.

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Fred …..cut spending? wow? Other than defense cuts what are the Dems?Libs proposing? I might be convinced if I really knew of any and they were serious…….please name calling/labeling is not necessary

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East Lake Ira

November 28th, 2012
2:29 pm

Fred – get over yourself.
+++++++++++++++

Are you one of those folks who doesn’t respond well to compliments? Other anger issues? Why all the hostility Ira? I mean I’m glad you are letting it all out. Perhaps by venting your misguided anger on me that will mean your wife will be safe from physical abuse when you get home, but golly, why the hostility in the first place?

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Redcoat

November 28th, 2012
2:30 pm

Fred …..cut spending? wow? Other than defense cuts what are the Dems?Libs proposing? I might be convinced if I really knew of any and they were serious……. please name calling/labeling is not necessary
++++++++++++++++++++++

Why then by all means stop name calling and labeling. YOU can be our shining example. It all starts with you sport.

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How do you mean?

OWS didn’t have people trumpeting their cause on major networks like CNBC, and no bankrolling from outlets like ALEC. Big difference.

They both wasted energy by mouthing stuff as opposed to putting rubber to the road and acting. They both talked a good game, but neither one has any tangible results to show for their actions.

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guy

November 28th, 2012
2:11 pm
grannygodzilla Are you threatening me?
Please don’t hurt me .I’m frightened! Call 911

.
.
.

Be brave little buckaroo.

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Ok Fred……..Had I started?…..Please inform me of a name I called you that you were sensitive about? That’s so I will not repeat it.

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“Ok, I get it, where is my free stuff, and my huge salary. I want it now!”

Romney said, no free stuff unless you voted for Obama…

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Fred …….Are the people free in China?……I believe the government, run by communist, call the shots. And best I can determine their leaders are all very well off and not the general population…..I’m I seeing this wrong?

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My oh my…..First Saxby then this…..

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/11/28/1248781/isakson-susan-rice-libya/

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Oh yeah Fred…….you didn’t inform me about those cuts Dems/Libs and pushing for…….I’ll wait…thanks

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I’m gonna draw up a little sign that says, “Middle Class – Already work, but I guess I’ll have to work more. Donations accepted.” If I pick my street corner wisely, maybe I’ll get 4 or 5 dollars.

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When I win the lottery tonight (with my credit card bought tickets) I plan on buying the AJC and renaming it the moonbat Times. I will then transform it into the largest, most powerful, right wing news organization in the US.

Instead of moonbats complaining about Fox News, they will complain about the moonbat Times.

So get ready.

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Fred….are we having 2 different conversations?

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What is a FOXBOT?…..your tone made it sound very demeaning……all your responses to everyone has that demeaning tone…….Why is that?…..Now ….what name did I call you that you jumped my case about?

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@ granny:thinkprogress:#3 tweet, barnry Frank doesn’t like another senator using WEAZEL…

“there’s your sign”

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What is a FOXBOT?…..your tone made it sound very demeaning

FOXBOT has not got anybody banned. Delusional lickspittle has. When compared between the two, I think the jury is still out whether FOXBOT is demeaning or not.

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Using the term “lickspittle” is a taxable offense.

and getalife,

you can be my editor.

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Fred – Just have another meltdown and disappear again please like the psychotic faux liberal you play here on the blog.

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“you can be my editor.”

I am retired.

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Fred…….?

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Bro

Unless I missed it as I was perusing the comments I didn’t see anyone refute or challenge your 12:47, where you spoke of “fees” instead of taxes.

One of the best posts of the day.

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East Lake Ira

November 28th, 2012
2:53 pm

Fred – Just have another meltdown and disappear again please like the psychotic faux liberal you play here on the blog.
++++++++++++++++++

Can you translate that into English please? You aren’t making any sense. How did I pee in your cheerios by complimenting your start of a plan? unless it wasn’t really a plan. you were LYING weren’t you? Come on now, fess up……..

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You know I read these blogs but have never blogged myself. All I see is supposed adults who try to one-up each other. Never get anything accomplished but having fun I guess. Blindly follow the left or right and expect others to follow their lead. Look, the GOP will die off, not hard to see as people with their hands out and illegals seeing they will win will always vote for who is helping them.As their populations explode nothing will change in their thinking. Can’t blame them for wanting more kids as mo money, mo money, mo money. Not rocket science folks but I am sure some of you think it is.

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Cole is right.

He should be speaker.

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Erwins Cat: If you fail to see the Chinese slave labor and theft of IP then there really is no basis for conversation as you have decided to ignore the most important facts and chosen to believe and propagate lies instead. You have no understanding whatsoever of the Chinese culture and I have no desire to try to condense a lifetime of study into an etch a sketch version that will compete with your misconceptions.

Yeah, we SHOULD become JUST LIKE the Chinese.

Just damn, a couple of years ago it was the gddamnmed IRISH that the FOXBOTS were saying we should be like. We see what happened THERE with their “low to non existent corporate tax rate” don’t we?

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I’m down with Clinton Era tax rates, as long as we also have Clinton Era spending levels to GDP

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Hey Fred,

It’s not a lie if you believe it’s true!

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I am glad obama and his posse are finally making an attempt to reach across the aisle, but I think they dragged their feet for too long.

LOL Moonbat, REALLY? They’ve been trying for two years now. The teapartiers thought they had a mandate while the rest of the republicans were pouting for the way they were treated by Pelosi and that other idiot Reid when the DEMS had complete control………..

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Hey moonbat: If you are NICE I will allow you to use my green egg and make me some BBQ pig butt and ribs for the SEC Championship Saturday. I’ll even let you eat with us. Well as long as you aren’t flatulent……… I’ll even toss in your favorite adult beverage. Or make a beer run……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmcJWPYcr1I

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Bro

I missed those responses. My bad. I figured no one would acknowledge it for what it was, but didn’t see the responses.

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Crap. I wasted too much time. Gotta split. i’ll fight with you all later. I don’t even have time for a beer run now, I gotta cook supper and do the kitchen.

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Fred, sounds good.

I was thinking of egging up some chicken wings and elephant oysters in honor of the tide.

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yeah, we Should be JUST LIKE the Chinese

Fred – I never said that now did I?
and please school me on Chinese culture…It would have come in handy during my many travels there..but .thanks for demeaning nature of your posts though…for a minute I took you seriously

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Whatever the reason, the differential is significant. Lower-income Americans — in most cases people who have worked hard all of their lives — arrive at age 65 in worse physical shape than their counterparts, and for them, deferring retirement is a real hardship.

This. In most fiscal respects, I am a conservative. But Jay is right here even if he doesn’t know how he got there.
FACT #1: Some folks can run a marathon at 65, others have one foot in the grave. Beyond 55 or 60, there is a HUGE disparity in cognitive and physical ability.

FACT #2: Just because someone lives to 100 doesn’t mean they can work until age 95 ! THE AGE TO WHICH YOU LIVE IS MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TO THE AGE AT WHICH YOU CAN WORK. These two were linked closely when the ave life expectancy was about 60. These two (life expectancy/age to which you can work) decoupled a long time ago. Why do politicians believe they still apply?

FACT #3: There is a huge amount of age discrimination in this country. Lose a high paying job at age 55 and see what happens. Who is going to give a job to the average 65 year old? Those who can’t work, who have multiple chronic health problems in their early 60’s… those who need SS and Medicare the most… would be hurt the most.

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“I’m in, when those that vote Republican that screamed about the stimulus and its effect on the deficit send back their stimulus check. And of course I expect those same people that are now whining about the deficit and Social Security to send back the payroll tax break they have been receiving for the past 2 years. You in Moonbat?”

Dannyx – if we all work together, we can do anything! (How’s THAT for inspiring!)

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“if we all work together, we can do anything! (How’s THAT for inspiring!)”

Now that’s the spirit!

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“By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on…” somebody else.

If we’re being honest about it…

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I never did see a Republican post data showing how much net tax revenue has been generated to date by the 2003 and 2005 Bush tax cuts. Any body? Surely there’s a Heritage study out there for a Republican to cite.

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Erwin’s cat

November 28th, 2012
3:15 pm

yeah, we Should be JUST LIKE the Chinese

Fred – I never said that now did I?
and please school me on Chinese culture…It would have come in handy during my many travels there..but .thanks for demeaning nature of your posts though…for a minute I took you seriously
+++++++++++++++++

Ah, so they’ve taken you to a hospital where they have a mother with an unauthorised baby that they make bring to birth and as soon as the head comes out they stick a syringe of poison in it. Cool. They usually don’t let most people see that, but sionce YOU are special, (and if you are doing business there paying suffiecient bribes) then I suppose you have full access. Cool. It was really neat when they put the date rape drugs in the kids aqua dots and sent them over here wasn’t it.

Yeah, you and Mitt. Great fans of the Chinese.

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“Who is going to give a job to the average 65 year old?”

Me! My secretary is 78!

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Bears Player Suggests Some NFLers Use VIAGRA For Extra Edge On Field…

If an NFL game lasts for more than four hours, please consult your physician.

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Most American taxpayers got one too

I didn’t

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Who is going to give a job to the average 65 year old?

Well, I got some big rocks in the back of the trailer I need to get busted up. I reckon a 65 year old could do it. If they die, they die.

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Kamchak – that was way off topic and I’m trying to NOT get a visual on what happens in the pile.

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“Well, I got some big rocks in the back of the trailer I need to get busted up. I reckon a 65 year old could do it. If they die, they die.”

Redneck just gave Republicans an idea for Medicare reform.

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Team Romney continues to be disgusting:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/stuart-stevens-poor-minority-voters.php

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I have been reading ALL IN: The Education of General Prateaus. That is where a lot of money went, to the conflict in Afghanstan. The Commander in Chief, President Obama certainly has a responsiblity for the humongus amount of money spent on a failed war. The adminsitration has spent soooooo much money it is hard to believe that they were spending real money. Now, thye cannot figure out how to pay it back, cannot blame the GOP.

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I have been reading ALL IN: The Education of General Prateaus.

I’ve been reading The Pet Goat: The Smoking Gun Is The Mushroom Cloud.

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Geez !

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I love the giddiness of the posters I gues in four years when Obama and the Dems have added an additional * trillion to the 6 they added his first term you guys will break out the poppers and hats. We have children in office the best thing they can do now is let the tax cuts expire and the auto cuts kick in. It will be unpopular but it is the grownup thing to do. PAY OUR BILLS

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Redcoat: I throw out things like…”go ahead and tax, get it over with”….because that is what I believe all Democrats want…..grow the government, make it more powerful over all the citizens and it’s what they believe will solve all our country’s problems.

Have you ever considered actually ASKING a Democrat what they want instead of assuming they all want the same thing? Seems that much of the ire raised at conservatives here is because conservatives don’t listen to what’s actually said and simply assume things or listen to the right wing echo peddlers and believe all that crap as though it’s 100% accurate.

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Bring back war bonds and fund whatever wars Republicans want with the proceeds from them. They can even use the leftovers to pay benefits to war vets. What Republican could turn down an offer like that! Call it the Petraeus Pension Benefit Act in honor of a decorated vet that is only now beginning to get everything he’s earned.

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For pete’s sake, it’s My Pet Goat.

At the risk of upsetting one who has two machine guns and an anti-tank weapon (for defense only), I feel I must set the record straight:

“The Pet Goat” (often erroneously called “My Pet Goat”) is a children’s story from the book Reading Mastery II: Storybook 1 by Siegfried Engelmann and Elaine C. Bruner. The book is part of the 31 volume Reading Mastery series published by the SRA Macmillan early-childhood education division of McGraw-Hill. It uses the Direct Instruction (DI) teaching method, which was originally developed by Engelmann and Wesley C. Becker.

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“I’ve been reading The Pet Goat: The Smoking Gun Is The Mushroom Cloud.”

Lol!

Was Thomas Jefferson the author?

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So the majority supports raising taxes on someone else. What a surprise. My issue here isn’t with paying more in taxes; it’s how the money is spent. I also think that everyone above a poverty income level should pitch in, even it it’s only a dollar.

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TaxPayer — “Bring back war bonds”

They never left. They’re just US Savings Bonds under a different name. In fact, Series E Bonds — the first USSBs actually sold as war bonds — were still available for purchase as late as 1980.

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RB — “Do you honestly think your side is any better or any different??”

No. We think your side is that much *worse.*

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People are living and working longer. It’s time to raise the age limit for Medicare to 67.

(among other things of course)

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A. Shrugged — “Obama, as CinC sent 50,000 more troops into Afghanistan. That price tag belongs to him.”

So are you saying that you’re giving a pass to President Bush for starting two wars — but not putting either one on the budget — while you’re going to come down on President Obama for bringing two wars to a *close* and putting them on the budget where everyone could see the costs?

Because if that’s not what you’re saying, then I would appreciate some clarification.

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RB

Nevermind, you need not answer that question as your post more than proves my point. You don’t bother to read what’s actually posted here. You merely go off the better choice between your assumptions and what the voices in your head tell you.

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Deficit you say?

Which brings us to the economic level. The deficits that Bush ran up in the years in which the country was teetering on the verge of a serious recession had the beneficial effect of righting the economy. In that sense, deficits not only didn’t matter, but were a force for economic good.

Translation: IOKIYAR!

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Git-R-Done!

Why Larry the Cable Guy got it right.

http://apocalypseaverted.blogspot.com/

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“Poor people should be entitled to live as long as rich people. When will our government fix this?”

Yea, cause the constitution guarantees us equal outcomes regardless of how many packs a day we smoke, Big Mac consumption, exercise, or anything else.

In fact, we’re entitled to cell phones, cable, a/c, a desk job for life, and Internet access too!

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JHM – I’m saying once Obama became CiC he gets some of the responsibility of the continuing death tolls and financial cost of the wars, particularly the lives and dollars associated with him ordering 50,000 more troops in.
In retrospect, Bush made a horrendolus decision invading and occupying Iraq. But we were attacked by an enemy that hides among the civilians thoughout the Middle east so it was tough to figure out how to fight them. And thousands of terrorists were killed in Iraq.
Obama wasn’t flying blind like Bush, he had 7 years of disastrous results to show him the stupidity of invading and occupying any ME country, and still he sent all those extra troops into Afghanistan!

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Redcoat — “Joe Hussain Mama….That’s is great about Obama reducing government employment….”

How *surprising* that you didn’t know a *thing* about it.

“does that include the takeover of businesses and the take over of healthcare?”

Why would it? Neither of those sectors draw government paychecks, so employees in those businesses don’t work for the government.

“……Are you saying you want to see more of that?”

I’m saying that you don’t seem to have any idea what you’re talking about. Healthcare workers and carmakers aren’t ‘government employees,’ but you don’t seem to realize that.

“……Companies too big to fail so they are subsidized by us and not standing on their own?”

Companies don’t seem to have a problem with slagging their legal pension obligations off onto the taxpayers so that they can preserve their profitability — so I don’t see a problem with giving some investors a haircut so we can preserve JOBS that keep autoworkers as TAXPAYING citizens.

Maybe you’ve figured out a way for automakers to go bankrupt and yet still maintain their workforces of taxpaying citizens, but I doubt it. Romney couldn’t figure out how to do it, and he claimed to be some kind of super genius.

My name is Elmer Fudd. I own a mansion und a yacht.

“They will only survive only as long as we keep paying taxes…….can that be sustained?”

If the choice is to allow an entire strategic industrial sector of the American economy to collapse, can *our nation* sustain that?

“I understand it grew during Bush’s time, and surely didn’t want it, but compared to what is coming, we all may be wishing if we could only have stopped it while we could before having no choice at all.”

What’s “coming?” What, exactly, is so frightening to you?

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Read this several weeks ago

“Romney will beat Obama as bad or worse than Reagan beat Carter”

Read this several weeks ago:

“Elmer Fudd could defeat Obama.”

Maybe they shoulda nominated him instead of Romney.

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Brosephus……..Ok……Do Democrats want to cut any spending and if so how much would they propose and where? And do they believe that taxing the top wage earners will pay all the government bills and sustain sufficient revenues going forward?

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RB – Amen and pass the SNAP card brother!

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“RB – Amen and pass the SNAP card brother!”

Yeah RB, Amen!

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A. Shrugged — “JHM – I’m saying once Obama became CiC he gets some of the responsibility of the continuing death tolls and financial cost of the wars, particularly the lives and dollars associated with him ordering 50,000 more troops in.”

Funny how conservatives gladly slapped Bush on the back for his decision to go ahead with the “surge” in Iraq, yet they can’t bring themselves to see the utility of the same farking methodology in Afghanistan.

“In retrospect, Bush made a horrendolus decision invading and occupying Iraq.”

AND Afghanistan.

“But we were attacked by an enemy that hides among the civilians thoughout the Middle east”

We were attacked by a butthole hiding in a cave in Afghanistan, not some mustachioed jackazz in a business suit in Baghdad.

“so it was tough to figure out how to fight them.”

PRO TIP — When the perp is in Afghanistan, GO TO FECKING AFGHANISTAN TO FIND HIM

“And thousands of terrorists were killed in Iraq.”

If someone came to invade my country when we hadn’t done jack to them, I’d probably pick up a rifle and start shooting too. That wouldn’t make me a terrorist, though.

“Obama wasn’t flying blind like Bush, he had 7 years of disastrous results to show him the stupidity of invading and occupying any ME country, and still he sent all those extra troops into Afghanistan!”

AFTER Bush already piddled time, money and blood away on a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.

Our target was in Afghanistan (and then in Pakistan). Bush didn’t have it in him to get the guy. Good thing President Obama did.

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RB — “And…… you lost me there…”

I know. Our Earth logic is far too complicated for you to follow.

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@ shrugged, Afganistan is a true cesspool and has been for millinea, Obama was clueless when he came in, can’t blame him, blame the russians or alexander the great or the brits, I’m no fan of The Prez, but hanging this yoke around his neck won’t fly….There i’ve said it, now Granny where’s that bikini……

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Redcoat — “And do they believe that taxing the top wage earners will pay all the government bills and sustain sufficient revenues going forward?”

LOGIC FAIL.

The purpose of raising rates on top earners is not so that *they* can pay “all the government bills” and other bulldada. It’s to CLOSE THE GAP between income and outlay.

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Robert Brown melt-down in 3…2…1….

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“Hey Joe, I’ll call Afghanistan and Iraq, and raise you a VietNam (thanks so much JFK and LBJ).”

Yeah, and how about Lincoln and HIS war????

*sigh*

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N. Yobinnes — “No, I just thought I’d level the playing field by noting that not all unauthorized wars were started or escalated by “cons”.

Nor did I think, claim or otherwise indicate that they were. I’m well aware of the genesis of our involvement in Vietnam under JFK.

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I’m trying to ease the pain and emotional distress I am under after having been rejected by Joe. I’ll sue!

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Joe Hussein Mama……thanks for you detailed response…..wow you really trust the government. I guess the days are gone that a new auto maker could start a business? Healthcare will be all government in the near future, don’t you think? And when the taxpayers have no money, to pay for their government products, what happens then? Your response assumes everyone will continue to contribute and work as hard taking benefits from the government.

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“Translation: Unless you have experienced the horror of living under these systems you are an easy target for Obama Claus.”

Translation: Romney nor any Republican is owed votes . So instead of crying about Obama and the Democrats why not ask why are Republicans are missing great opportunities with these groups?

Maybe this article from the American Conservative would be a start for you….. probably not, but who knows

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-gops-asian-american-fiasco/

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With predictability from Congress, Kam…. just saying that could be us.

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…. or as the title of Friedman’s book says, “That Used to be Us.”

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Redcoat, see above example – Germany.

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Redcoat — “Joe Hussein Mama……thanks for you detailed response…..wow you really trust the government.”

You’re welcome.

It’s not that I trust the government so much — it’s that you *fear* the government, but for things that it hasn’t done.

‘I guess the days are gone that a new auto maker could start a business?”

You know who Elon Musk is? He started one. Look up Tesla Motors.

“Healthcare will be all government in the near future, don’t you think?”

Good. It works fine for retirees and the military, so why wouldn’t it work for everyone else?

“And when the taxpayers have no money, to pay for their government products, what happens then?”

What happens when the marauding space rodents of Grexis Nine eat all the green cheese that is our moon?

“Your response assumes everyone will continue to contribute and work as hard taking benefits from the government.”

And you assume that they *won’t.* Fortunately, I’ve got *generations* worth of Medicare, Medicaid, VA and DoD health care data backing my position up. Whereas you seem to have nothing besides Fox talking heads and some sort of nameless, Lovecraftian dread of the future.

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N. Yobinnes — “Joe, I’m really naive. What’s a “binky”?”

Didn’t you ever have any little cousins or nieces or nephews?

Binky = pacifier

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GOP wins or loses – Big Deal!
If Washington doesn’t get this sorted out soon every U.S. citizen is going to lose big.

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…. just saying that could be us.

Well yeah, sure. But while our CEOs are sitting in conference rooms trying to make sure profits are maximized before moving ahead, the Germans are out there doing what needs to be done.

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Then a little thing called 9/11 happened and it’s been all downhill ever since.

The NBER’s Business Cycle Dating Committee has determined that a peak in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in March 2001. A peak marks the end of an expansion and the beginning of a recession. The determination of a peak date in March is thus a determination that the expansion that began in March 1991 ended in March 2001 and a recession began. The expansion lasted exactly 10 years, the longest in the NBER’s chronology

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Joe Hussein Mama…..Electric cars….can only be afforded by most with….government subsidies….and where does that come from….you and me…..am I wrong?

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Kamchak – I stand corrected. Things started going down in March 2001 (per the NBER), then 9/11 hit six months later, and everything went in a hand basket.

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A. Shrugged — “I prefer take over Iraq and the oil, to the total insanity of bombing, invading, and rebuidling. They’re never gonna like us no matter how many schools we build.”

Patently illegal under international law. If ‘taking over’ Iraq was our stated aim, we’d have had precisely NO allies in that fight. Besides, your preference is irrelevant to the point I made — which was that you’re opposing an Afghani surge despite the success of the selfsame methodology in Iraq.

“You’re taking a very simplistic crime and punishment approach to what is actually a large scale religious war.”

Denied. Even President Bush himself rejected the notion that we were involved in a religious war.

“The Islamic extremists want everyone else in the world to convert or die and they will not stop until that happens or they’re all gone.”

How’s that different from what *you* appear to want?

“And they control a large percentage of the oil we need.”

Rejected. If they did, then we’d be dealing with another oil embargo in re 1974.

“the only choices are fight and kill them now or wait until they get nukes and missiles and kill us.”

Now who’s being overly simplistic? (laughing)

Be that as it may, as a disabled Army veteran myself, I encourage you to saddle up and show us how it’s done, then.

“Some sure, but the extremists came from all over the ME to Iraq for the chance to kill Americans, die in jihad and go to paradise.”

Iraq is irrelevant; they could have just as easily done so if we were in Afghanistan in force — which just so happened to be where the mastermind of 9/11 had parked his carcass at the time.

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Redcoat — “Joe Hussein Mama…..Electric cars….can only be afforded by most with….government subsidies…”

Huh? WTF are you saying?

I could afford one of those, and I’m not government-subsidized.

“.and where does that come from….you and me…..am I wrong?

I’m not sure if you’re right or wrong, because I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

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Tesla’s cost $100k. That’s a little too steep for me.

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So you think two months after Bush was inaugurated the economy started going to heck?

I think that the ten year expansion, that began in March of 1991, peaked and signaled the beginning of a recession.

Just like the NBER said.

That would be the same NBER that has the responsibility of officially calling economic expansions and contractions.

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Joe, I’m not sure but I think he’s asking where does the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles come from.

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“Screw the fiscal “cliff”…”

Really Granny? How much more in tax are you willing to pay? Are you ready for another recession?
Maybe next election politicians who are willing to work across the aisle should be the only ones deemed electable. At least that way maybe the Gov would start working for the people again.

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JamVet — “Blaming the historic devastation unleashed by trickle down economics culminating with the events of the September 2008 corporate destruction of capitalism on the attacks of 9/11 is just another absurd and asinine ploy by the apologists to cover up for the (W)orst Ever.”

I remember at the time that a grocery chain (and I want to say it was Winn-Dixie but I could be wrong) blamed its lousy quarterly earnings on 9/11 . . .

. . . despite the fact that the company reported its quarterly results in late October, only about two weeks *after* 9/11.

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I’m not sure but I think he’s asking where does the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles come from.

thin air…taxes are not a zero sum game

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Well, the recession started only about two months *after* Bush was elected.

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I just want to know if there are some modifications that will make a Prius accelerate like a Mustang GT or Camaro SS.

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Redcoat

If I were responsible for crafting the plan, I would begin the phasing out of ALL tax cuts that have been enacted in this century. I would raise them at a steady rate over 5 years with the top bracket starting the first year, and then I would begin the next bracket the following year. That way, there are no surprises as to tax rates for the next decade.

For spending, I would phase in cuts across the board to coincide with increases in private sector spending. The primary reason spending shot up was because private sector spending collapsed. As the private sector decides to quit being wussies, there is less need for government spending. To aid in determining where cuts should come from, I would legislate a top to bottom detailed accounting review to account for every single penny spent by the government. I’m sure there would be sizable reductions to be found even before any program is tweaked.

After all that, then I would tackle the tax code and other things

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JHM – Now you’re losing me. Invading Iraq was terrible but the surge was a success? And Obama’s surge in Afghanistan, that’s a success too? Billions of dollars and hundreds of lives for what? Lasting peace and freindship with a 12th century country that doesn’t have anything we need or want to begin with? News flash – they still hate us and the taliban and al queda are still out there.
I think there’s an argument to be made that over the last 11 years we’ve created more anti-American terrorists than we’ve killed. As you wisely pointed out, no one likes to be occupied.
The world is now one small place. It’s like 7 billion living in this big apartment complex. One of our neighbor’s (more than one actually) apartments is infested with cockroaches. They keep coming into our apartment and wreaking havoc. Killing the cockroaches in our apartment doesn’t stop the infestation, they just keep coming. We really don’t want to break into the neighbor’s and kill all the cockroaches so we go to the landlord (the UN) They say they’ll put a notice (sanction) up on the neighbor’s door.
that’s where we’re at. Only it’s worse because if we leave the cockroaches alone long enough they’ll develop super powers (nuclear weapons) and instead of being a nuisance they’ll be a real threat to our very existence.
I say we kick down the wall and RAID all of ‘em. man, woman and child cockroach before they develop super powers.

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N. Yobinnes — “I just want to know if there are some modifications that will make a Prius accelerate like a Mustang GT or Camaro SS.”

Have you ever driven one? It’s weird; the electric motor gets you started, but at a certain point (or if you try to accelerate faster than the electrics can handle), you’ll feel the gas motor kick in to assist. If you’re driving slowly down a residential street, depending on the battery charge, the gas motor might not kick on at all and you go the whole way on electricity alone.

I think that Tesla roadster’s got the acceleration you want, though. I want mine in a royal blue.

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A lot of the super heroes got their super powers from being nuked. However, that didn’t seem to work out too well for Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Chernobyl residents.

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The Republican has proven that they defy even the theory of a broken clock being right twice a day. The problem with compromising with these people is they are uncommonly wrong all the time. The opportunity to win an election has never been easier than it was this time around, yet the Republicans lost. They isolated on problems with absolutely no solutions and half the time the problems they isolated on were not even issues to the country. This is such an obsolete movement that finds its numbers stinking by the hour.

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No, never driven one. I see 0-60 in 11 seconds (for a Prius), and lose interest in a hurry. Tesla does perform similar to a “muscle car”, but they cost a lot more. I think you can get a Tesla with only a 140 mile range for high $50’s, but that still a bit much for me. I put on too many miles too soon.

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A. Shrugged — “JHM – Now you’re losing me. Invading Iraq was terrible but the surge was a success?”

Yes. A war, stupidly entered into, can still contain tactical victories. I’m not blind to the military dimension of our actions on the ground over there.

“And Obama’s surge in Afghanistan, that’s a success too?”

Making it possible for us to disengage after getting OBL? I’d call that successful.

“Billions of dollars and hundreds of lives for what? Lasting peace and freindship with a 12th century country that doesn’t have anything we need or want to begin with?”

They had OBL in 2001. That’s all I needed to know.

“News flash – they still hate us and the taliban and al queda are still out there.”

News flash — if you want to declare war on an ideology, count me out. I keep my feet firmly on the ground.

“I think there’s an argument to be made that over the last 11 years we’ve created more anti-American terrorists than we’ve killed. As you wisely pointed out, no one likes to be occupied.
The world is now one small place. It’s like 7 billion living in this big apartment complex. One of our neighbor’s (more than one actually) apartments is infested with cockroaches. They keep coming into our apartment and wreaking havoc. Killing the cockroaches in our apartment doesn’t stop the infestation, they just keep coming. We really don’t want to break into the neighbor’s and kill all the cockroaches so we go to the landlord (the UN) They say they’ll put a notice (sanction) up on the neighbor’s door.”

The fact that our neighbor has cockroaches does not give us the right to break in and deal with them — in his apartment — as we please.

“that’s where we’re at. Only it’s worse because if we leave the cockroaches alone long enough they’ll develop super powers (nuclear weapons) and instead of being a nuisance they’ll be a real threat to our very existence.”

Funny how the North Koreans managed to develop nukes during all this and y’all don’t say BOO about that.

“I say we kick down the wall and RAID all of ‘em. man, woman and child cockroach before they develop super powers.”

I say you need methadone, a court-ordered commitment and some physical restraints.

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Okay, I’m out. All be well and drive safely.

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I think a silver one would be nice.

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Logical – good luck on that gift. P.S. if you find someone willing to do it, let me know.

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Jay, I’m sorry, I just got home and I tried to read the comments, really I did, to see if this had been asked, but there were too many. Is anyone talking about a tax increase on anyone, including those earning over $250,000, or are they talking about letting the Bush tax cuts expire only. If they are talking about letting the tax cuts expire and adding to the tax rate, I would say hooray, but I didn’t think that was being proposed.

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And in the last three years of the 1990s a certain political party using a D started paying off the national debt. But in 2000 a president and party with an R came along and cut taxes for almost all. Unto those that earned much, much was cut. All those who had an R for an identifier said this is great. The debt was no longer being paid off, but the R people said this does not matter. Jobs were sent out of the country because it cut costs for business,and everyone knew that businesses create jobs. Especially in China. After eight years of this foolishness a great financial debt had been created and the economy cratered. Suddenly debt that put Americans back to work was wrong. The cry rose that debt must be paid off. Everyone must sacrifice to pay off the debt. – Except the ones who derived the most financial benefits from the R system. After all, they are the job creators… so what if those jobs are in China or third world countries.

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The party of handouts wins. Forward! over the cliff lemmings.

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