GOP gambled on a fiscal crisis, and are losing that gamble
Republicans in Washington took a gamble — a wise gamble, they thought at the time. Believing that Barack Obama was vulnerable and that control of the Senate was well within their grasp, they put off tough negotiations on tax and budget issues until after the 2012 elections, believing that they would then have the momentum, the votes and the power to remake the federal government as they saw fit.
They lost that bet, and they’re now having to come to grips with the consequences. The fiscal crisis that they sought has now arrived, and they find themselves at a significant political disadvantage. The results of a new ABC News/Washington Post poll demonstrate why:
By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more. (And let’s remember, the proposed increase is hardly draconian. For a couple with $350,000 in taxable income, it would represent a tax increase of $4,600, or 1.3 percent of their income.)
By even larger margins, Americans reject the conservative option of raising the age at which Americans are eligible for Medicare coverage. And while those numbers tell us a lot about why Republicans are having such a hard time selling their argument, worse news lurks deeper in the bowels of that poll:
Even among self-described conservatives, 47 percent support raising taxes on those Americans doing best in this economy. Among those who call themselves very conservative, the number supporting that tax increase is 45 percent. Americans making $100,000 or more support higher taxes on the wealthy by a 15-point margin. Washington Republicans may be playing to the most vocal portion of their base on this issue, but for everybody else, this is a loser.
Raising the Medicare-eligibility age draws even stronger across-the-board rejection. In fact, Republicans and the “very conservative” reject it by the same two-to-one margin as the rest of America. If Republicans in Congress want to make that the hill on which they choose to fight, good luck to them.
The argument in favor of raising the eligibility age of Medicare and Social Security is two-fold. One is purely financial — by putting off the date on which people are eligible, taxpayers save a lot of money. The second is based on the premise that American lifespans are getting longer, which in turn allows us to push the retirement age off.
However, while that is true for upper-income Americans, it is much less true for those on the lower half of the income distribution scale.
Source: http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/workingpapers/wp108.html
For whatever reason, less affluent Americans have not seen the large improvement in lifespan enjoyed by their countrymen. That’s due in part to the more physically demanding nature of the jobs they often fill, in part to less access to health care and in part to lifestyle differences. Whatever the reason, the differential is significant. Lower-income Americans — in most cases people who have worked hard all of their lives — arrive at age 65 in worse physical shape than their counterparts, and for them, deferring retirement is a real hardship.
And as the poll above demonstrates, many in that situation are probably conservative Republican voters.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
432 comments Add your comment
nelson
November 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
I have been reading ALL IN: The Education of General Prateaus. That is where a lot of money went, to the conflict in Afghanstan. The Commander in Chief, President Obama certainly has a responsiblity for the humongus amount of money spent on a failed war. The adminsitration has spent soooooo much money it is hard to believe that they were spending real money. Now, thye cannot figure out how to pay it back, cannot blame the GOP.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
Redcoat — “because that is what I believe all Democrats want…”
What makes you think you know what we want? Don’t you think we can speak for ourselves?
“.grow the government, make it more powerful over all the citizens and it’s what they believe will solve all our country’s problems.”
If you’ve got a problem with the increasing size of government, then your problem lies with the GOP. The government grew *significantly* under President Bush, whereas President Obama has *cut* government employment levels. In fact, unemployment would be 0.2% – 0.5% *lower* than it is now if President Obama simply hadn’t cut the government jobs that he has.
Doesn’t sound to me like the Democrats are quite the way you think they are.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
3:48 pm
I have been reading ALL IN: The Education of General Prateaus.
I’ve been reading The Pet Goat: The Smoking Gun Is The Mushroom Cloud.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
3:48 pm
Nelson — “The Commander in Chief, President Obama certainly has a responsiblity for the humongus amount of money spent on a failed war. The adminsitration has spent soooooo much money it is hard to believe that they were spending real money. Now, thye cannot figure out how to pay it back, cannot blame the GOP.”
Are you high?
Do you not remember who got us *into* Iraq and Afghanistan, or are you just pulling our collective leg?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 28th, 2012
3:49 pm
Geez !
getalife
November 28th, 2012
3:51 pm
nelson,
The gop put two occupations on the credit card.
Just remembering.
Buck B Wild
November 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
I love the giddiness of the posters I gues in four years when Obama and the Dems have added an additional * trillion to the 6 they added his first term you guys will break out the poppers and hats. We have children in office the best thing they can do now is let the tax cuts expire and the auto cuts kick in. It will be unpopular but it is the grownup thing to do. PAY OUR BILLS
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
I’ve been reading The Pet Goat: The Smoking Gun Is The Mushroom Cloud.
For pete’s sake, it’s My Pet Goat. I read it cover to cover after I learned My President was reading it when they bombed the World Trade Center. And I never hardly had to move my lips while I was reading this best seller.
Brosephus™
November 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
Redcoat: I throw out things like…”go ahead and tax, get it over with”….because that is what I believe all Democrats want…..grow the government, make it more powerful over all the citizens and it’s what they believe will solve all our country’s problems.
Have you ever considered actually ASKING a Democrat what they want instead of assuming they all want the same thing? Seems that much of the ire raised at conservatives here is because conservatives don’t listen to what’s actually said and simply assume things or listen to the right wing echo peddlers and believe all that crap as though it’s 100% accurate.
getalife
November 28th, 2012
3:56 pm
All in is a porn flick.
TaxPayer
November 28th, 2012
3:58 pm
Bring back war bonds and fund whatever wars Republicans want with the proceeds from them. They can even use the leftovers to pay benefits to war vets. What Republican could turn down an offer like that! Call it the Petraeus Pension Benefit Act in honor of a decorated vet that is only now beginning to get everything he’s earned.
AmericaShrugged
November 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
Poor people should be entitled to live as long as rich people. When will our government fix this?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
For pete’s sake, it’s My Pet Goat.
At the risk of upsetting one who has two machine guns and an anti-tank weapon (for defense only), I feel I must set the record straight:
“The Pet Goat” (often erroneously called “My Pet Goat”) is a children’s story from the book Reading Mastery II: Storybook 1 by Siegfried Engelmann and Elaine C. Bruner. The book is part of the 31 volume Reading Mastery series published by the SRA Macmillan early-childhood education division of McGraw-Hill. It uses the Direct Instruction (DI) teaching method, which was originally developed by Engelmann and Wesley C. Becker.
RB from Gwinnett
November 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
“Seems that much of the ire raised at conservatives here is because conservatives don’t listen to what’s actually said and simply assume things or listen to the right wing echo peddlers and believe all that crap as though it’s 100% accurate.”
Do you honestly think your side is any better or any different??
DannyX
November 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
“I’ve been reading The Pet Goat: The Smoking Gun Is The Mushroom Cloud.”
Lol!
Was Thomas Jefferson the author?
Alex
November 28th, 2012
4:02 pm
Mushroom
there’s your sign…
All in..except the 47%…….AND the pet goat….
SPC
November 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
So the majority supports raising taxes on someone else. What a surprise. My issue here isn’t with paying more in taxes; it’s how the money is spent. I also think that everyone above a poverty income level should pitch in, even it it’s only a dollar.
oops
November 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
i’m hedged
are you?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
TaxPayer — “Bring back war bonds”
They never left. They’re just US Savings Bonds under a different name. In fact, Series E Bonds — the first USSBs actually sold as war bonds — were still available for purchase as late as 1980.
AmericaShrugged
November 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
Obama, as CinC sent 50,000 more troops into Afghanistan. That price tag belongs to him.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
RB — “Do you honestly think your side is any better or any different??”
No. We think your side is that much *worse.*
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 28th, 2012
4:05 pm
Light at the end of the tunnel ?
Heard this today:
“In general and with exceptions” :
1) Older people grow more conservative.
2) Conservative people have more children.
3) Liberals abort their children much, much more than conservatives.
Time will tell ………….. time will tell.
Peadawg
November 28th, 2012
4:05 pm
People are living and working longer. It’s time to raise the age limit for Medicare to 67.
(among other things of course)
Brosephus™
November 28th, 2012
4:06 pm
Do you honestly think your side is any better or any different??
Do you honestly LISTEN to what’s said here? Otherwise, you would not have asked that question as I don’t have a side. I’ve said it countless times here that I don’t trust ANY politician farther than I can throw them. I didn’t vote for Romney, and I didn’t vote for Obama.
My “side” wishes that the extremes on both sides would shut the f**k up and quit f**king things up.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:06 pm
A. Shrugged — “Obama, as CinC sent 50,000 more troops into Afghanistan. That price tag belongs to him.”
So are you saying that you’re giving a pass to President Bush for starting two wars — but not putting either one on the budget — while you’re going to come down on President Obama for bringing two wars to a *close* and putting them on the budget where everyone could see the costs?
Because if that’s not what you’re saying, then I would appreciate some clarification.
oops
November 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
“Obama says hopes for deficit deal by Christmas”
coal for you mr prez
Brosephus™
November 28th, 2012
4:08 pm
RB
Nevermind, you need not answer that question as your post more than proves my point. You don’t bother to read what’s actually posted here. You merely go off the better choice between your assumptions and what the voices in your head tell you.
Redcoat
November 28th, 2012
4:08 pm
Joe Hussain Mama….That’s is great about Obama reducing government employment….does that include the takeover of businesses and the take over of healthcare?……Are you saying you want to see more of that?……Companies too big to fail so they are subsidized by us and not standing on their own? They will only survive only as long as we keep paying taxes…….can that be sustained? I understand it grew during Bush’s time, and surely didn’t want it, but compared to what is coming, we all may be wishing if we could only have stopped it while we could before having no choice at all.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
4:12 pm
Deficit you say?
Which brings us to the economic level. The deficits that Bush ran up in the years in which the country was teetering on the verge of a serious recession had the beneficial effect of righting the economy. In that sense, deficits not only didn’t matter, but were a force for economic good.
Translation: IOKIYAR!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 28th, 2012
4:12 pm
On the other hand ………………….
Heard this today:
“The most reliable conservative ethnic groups and voting blocks in America have always been the Chinese (those who escaped Mao and Communism) and the Cubans (those who escaped Castro and Communism).
However, this past election their children and grandchildren (educated in our government schools) overwhelmingly voted for Barck Hussein Obama.”
Translation: Unless you have experienced the horror of living under these systems you are an easy target for Obama Claus.
Peter Calvet
November 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
Git-R-Done!
Why Larry the Cable Guy got it right.
http://apocalypseaverted.blogspot.com/
oops
November 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
you thought Bush was bad on income growth. take a look at Obama. At least under Bush it didn’t go down 4%. doesn’t bode well for the next four years folks
we’re going to still be stuck in this cesspool for 4 more. yeah! 4 more years!
http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php
RB from Gwinnett
November 28th, 2012
4:14 pm
“Poor people should be entitled to live as long as rich people. When will our government fix this?”
Yea, cause the constitution guarantees us equal outcomes regardless of how many packs a day we smoke, Big Mac consumption, exercise, or anything else.
In fact, we’re entitled to cell phones, cable, a/c, a desk job for life, and Internet access too!
They BOTH suck
November 28th, 2012
4:15 pm
Read this several weeks ago
“Romney will beat Obama as bad or worse than Reagan beat Carter”
“Time will tell……. time will tell. ”
Just saying
AmericaShrugged
November 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
JHM – I’m saying once Obama became CiC he gets some of the responsibility of the continuing death tolls and financial cost of the wars, particularly the lives and dollars associated with him ordering 50,000 more troops in.
In retrospect, Bush made a horrendolus decision invading and occupying Iraq. But we were attacked by an enemy that hides among the civilians thoughout the Middle east so it was tough to figure out how to fight them. And thousands of terrorists were killed in Iraq.
Obama wasn’t flying blind like Bush, he had 7 years of disastrous results to show him the stupidity of invading and occupying any ME country, and still he sent all those extra troops into Afghanistan!
Alex
November 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
@oops: BIGTIME!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
Redcoat — “Joe Hussain Mama….That’s is great about Obama reducing government employment….”
How *surprising* that you didn’t know a *thing* about it.
“does that include the takeover of businesses and the take over of healthcare?”
Why would it? Neither of those sectors draw government paychecks, so employees in those businesses don’t work for the government.
“……Are you saying you want to see more of that?”
I’m saying that you don’t seem to have any idea what you’re talking about. Healthcare workers and carmakers aren’t ‘government employees,’ but you don’t seem to realize that.
“……Companies too big to fail so they are subsidized by us and not standing on their own?”
Companies don’t seem to have a problem with slagging their legal pension obligations off onto the taxpayers so that they can preserve their profitability — so I don’t see a problem with giving some investors a haircut so we can preserve JOBS that keep autoworkers as TAXPAYING citizens.
Maybe you’ve figured out a way for automakers to go bankrupt and yet still maintain their workforces of taxpaying citizens, but I doubt it. Romney couldn’t figure out how to do it, and he claimed to be some kind of super genius.
My name is Elmer Fudd. I own a mansion und a yacht.
“They will only survive only as long as we keep paying taxes…….can that be sustained?”
If the choice is to allow an entire strategic industrial sector of the American economy to collapse, can *our nation* sustain that?
“I understand it grew during Bush’s time, and surely didn’t want it, but compared to what is coming, we all may be wishing if we could only have stopped it while we could before having no choice at all.”
What’s “coming?” What, exactly, is so frightening to you?
Regnad Kcin
November 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
“….does that include the takeover of businesses and the take over of healthcare”
…and here’s your sign…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
4:17 pm
Read this several weeks ago
“Romney will beat Obama as bad or worse than Reagan beat Carter”
Read this several weeks ago:
“Elmer Fudd could defeat Obama.”
Maybe they shoulda nominated him instead of Romney.
DannyX
November 28th, 2012
4:17 pm
RB must not be a Christian. Jesus didn’t have one nice thing to say about the rich but RB worships them. Jesus was on the side of the poor and the sick, RB hates them.
Redcoat
November 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
Brosephus……..Ok……Do Democrats want to cut any spending and if so how much would they propose and where? And do they believe that taxing the top wage earners will pay all the government bills and sustain sufficient revenues going forward?
East Lake Ira
November 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
Frum: After 2013, Democrats will be able to tell the following story:
“The Bush tax cuts were in place from 2002 through 2012, ten years. In the first half of the decade, we experienced the weakest economic expansion since the war. In the second half of the decade, we suffered the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
“Then the tax cuts expired. And since 2013, we’ve seen accelerating economic growth and rapidly decreasing unemployment.
“Tax cuts didn’t help. Tax increases didn’t hurt.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/27/how-will-the-gop-respond-to-economic-growth-ctd.html
AmericaShrugged
November 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
RB – Amen and pass the SNAP card brother!
RB from Gwinnett
November 28th, 2012
4:20 pm
Joey, “No. We think…”
And…… you lost me there…
DannyX
November 28th, 2012
4:20 pm
“RB – Amen and pass the SNAP card brother!”
Yeah RB, Amen!
In the middle
November 28th, 2012
4:22 pm
Rasing taxes on the wealthy will only result in an extra tax on me. The money to pay the taxes is just going to come out of either my benefits or future raises. The “rich” arent just going to pony up the money because congress says so. They will find a way to offset the increase.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:22 pm
A. Shrugged — “JHM – I’m saying once Obama became CiC he gets some of the responsibility of the continuing death tolls and financial cost of the wars, particularly the lives and dollars associated with him ordering 50,000 more troops in.”
Funny how conservatives gladly slapped Bush on the back for his decision to go ahead with the “surge” in Iraq, yet they can’t bring themselves to see the utility of the same farking methodology in Afghanistan.
“In retrospect, Bush made a horrendolus decision invading and occupying Iraq.”
AND Afghanistan.
“But we were attacked by an enemy that hides among the civilians thoughout the Middle east”
We were attacked by a butthole hiding in a cave in Afghanistan, not some mustachioed jackazz in a business suit in Baghdad.
“so it was tough to figure out how to fight them.”
PRO TIP — When the perp is in Afghanistan, GO TO FECKING AFGHANISTAN TO FIND HIM
“And thousands of terrorists were killed in Iraq.”
If someone came to invade my country when we hadn’t done jack to them, I’d probably pick up a rifle and start shooting too. That wouldn’t make me a terrorist, though.
“Obama wasn’t flying blind like Bush, he had 7 years of disastrous results to show him the stupidity of invading and occupying any ME country, and still he sent all those extra troops into Afghanistan!”
AFTER Bush already piddled time, money and blood away on a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.
Our target was in Afghanistan (and then in Pakistan). Bush didn’t have it in him to get the guy. Good thing President Obama did.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:23 pm
Hey Joe, I’ll call Afghanistan and Iraq, and raise you a VietNam (thanks so much JFK and LBJ).
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:23 pm
RB — “And…… you lost me there…”
I know. Our Earth logic is far too complicated for you to follow.
Logical Dude
November 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
Jay says: Americans reject the conservative option of raising the age at which Americans are eligible for Medicare coverage.
Well, that’s because they don’t realize that by the time they retire, there won’t BE a difference between Medicare and pre-retirement healthcare.
Government sponsored healthcare will be the norm within 15-20 years, so even if retirement age for Medicare is raised, WHO CARES? There will still be healthcare coverage.
Not sure how we’ll pay for it yet, but it’s coming.
Alex
November 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
@ shrugged, Afganistan is a true cesspool and has been for millinea, Obama was clueless when he came in, can’t blame him, blame the russians or alexander the great or the brits, I’m no fan of The Prez, but hanging this yoke around his neck won’t fly….There i’ve said it, now Granny where’s that bikini……
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Hey Joe, I’ll call Afghanistan and Iraq, and raise you a VietNam (thanks so much JFK and LBJ).”
Did Obama or Bush have anything to do with either of those?
Nope. Rejected.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
Redcoat — “And do they believe that taxing the top wage earners will pay all the government bills and sustain sufficient revenues going forward?”
LOGIC FAIL.
The purpose of raising rates on top earners is not so that *they* can pay “all the government bills” and other bulldada. It’s to CLOSE THE GAP between income and outlay.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
No, I just thought I’d level the playing field by noting that not all unauthorized wars were started or escalated by “cons”.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
4:27 pm
Robert Brown melt-down in 3…2…1….
Rabbit
November 28th, 2012
4:27 pm
Most experts will tell you that a stated action (almost any stated action) will open up the economy to greater productivity. It is the inaction that has us frozen. Congress is killing the economy by the failure to compromise and move forward.
For all those whining and complaining about debt (when it didn’t bother them in the mid 2000s) the debt problem can be solved in much the same way it was solved in the Clinton era – increased productivity. Thomas Friedman often posits that we are ripe for new economies that we can market to the world.
No one is willing to risk launching innovations when the uncertainty of our government continues to loom. So, Congress, Shut up and move forward and out of the way.
Regnad Kcin
November 28th, 2012
4:27 pm
“Hey Joe, I’ll call Afghanistan and Iraq, and raise you a VietNam (thanks so much JFK and LBJ).”
Yeah, and how about Lincoln and HIS war????
*sigh*
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
Regnad – That too. Yankee aggressors.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
N. Yobinnes — “No, I just thought I’d level the playing field by noting that not all unauthorized wars were started or escalated by “cons”.
Nor did I think, claim or otherwise indicate that they were. I’m well aware of the genesis of our involvement in Vietnam under JFK.
Brosephus™
November 28th, 2012
4:30 pm
Redcoat
You need to ask Democrats. I don’t belong to either party, nor do I feign any fealty to either.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:34 pm
I’m trying to ease the pain and emotional distress I am under after having been rejected by Joe. I’ll sue!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
4:35 pm
No one is willing to risk launching innovations when the uncertainty of our government continues to loom.
And yet, Germany is kicking our ass in renewable energy.
25 percent of Germany’s electricity now comes from solar, wind and biomass. A third of the world’s installed solar capacity is found in Germany, a nation that gets roughly the same amount of sunlight as Alaska. A whopping 65 percent of the country’s total renewable power capacity is now owned by individuals, cooperatives and communities, leaving Germany’s once all-powerful utilities with just a sliver (6.5 percent) of this burgeoning sector.
Redcoat
November 28th, 2012
4:36 pm
Joe Hussein Mama……thanks for you detailed response…..wow you really trust the government. I guess the days are gone that a new auto maker could start a business? Healthcare will be all government in the near future, don’t you think? And when the taxpayers have no money, to pay for their government products, what happens then? Your response assumes everyone will continue to contribute and work as hard taking benefits from the government.
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
November 28th, 2012
4:36 pm
Joe – Regarding the genesis of the Viet Nam War: ” The first American soldier killed in the Vietnam War was Air Force T-Sgt. Richard B. Fitzgibbon Jr. He is listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having a casualty date of June 8, 1956. His name was added to the Wall on Memorial Day 1999. First battlefield fatality was Specialist 4 James T. Davis who was killed on December 22, 1961.”
They BOTH suck
November 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
“Translation: Unless you have experienced the horror of living under these systems you are an easy target for Obama Claus.”
Translation: Romney nor any Republican is owed votes . So instead of crying about Obama and the Democrats why not ask why are Republicans are missing great opportunities with these groups?
Maybe this article from the American Conservative would be a start for you….. probably not, but who knows
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-gops-asian-american-fiasco/
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
N. Yobinnes — “I’m trying to ease the pain and emotional distress I am under after having been rejected by Joe. I’ll sue!”
How ’bout a binky, dipped in Jack Daniel’s?
Rabbit
November 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
With predictability from Congress, Kam…. just saying that could be us.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:39 pm
Joe, I’m really naive. What’s a “binky”?
Rabbit
November 28th, 2012
4:40 pm
…. or as the title of Friedman’s book says, “That Used to be Us.”
Keep it simple stupid....
November 28th, 2012
4:40 pm
It’s very simple, President Clinton in spite of all his faults left the country in a surplus. President Bush and the Republicans went through the clinton surplus with the bush tax cuts like torondo in a trailer park in the south and when the greed blinded them from reality they passed more tax cuts for 8-12 yrs and put the country in a deficit. Well the bill has come due and now it’s time to pay up.
Rabbit
November 28th, 2012
4:41 pm
Redcoat, see above example – Germany.
alittlecommonsense
November 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
Cons want to fix the economy by hitting the elderly and the poor. Sounds like Cons to me!
“Take it from the old people and the poor people, don’t take it from those of us who are WORKING”
This is the liberal thought process. Not giving as much = taking. When you redefine terms like that, your logic fits your redefined terms. Everything makes sense until you look at it without using biased terms. Obviously no one is TAKING from old people and poor.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
Redcoat — “Joe Hussein Mama……thanks for you detailed response…..wow you really trust the government.”
You’re welcome.
It’s not that I trust the government so much — it’s that you *fear* the government, but for things that it hasn’t done.
‘I guess the days are gone that a new auto maker could start a business?”
You know who Elon Musk is? He started one. Look up Tesla Motors.
“Healthcare will be all government in the near future, don’t you think?”
Good. It works fine for retirees and the military, so why wouldn’t it work for everyone else?
“And when the taxpayers have no money, to pay for their government products, what happens then?”
What happens when the marauding space rodents of Grexis Nine eat all the green cheese that is our moon?
“Your response assumes everyone will continue to contribute and work as hard taking benefits from the government.”
And you assume that they *won’t.* Fortunately, I’ve got *generations* worth of Medicare, Medicaid, VA and DoD health care data backing my position up. Whereas you seem to have nothing besides Fox talking heads and some sort of nameless, Lovecraftian dread of the future.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
Keep, I don’t necessarily think it’s quite that simple. President Clinton rode the tide of the dot com boom, which could not sustain itself over the long haul. It was fading away rapidly toward the end of the Clinton Administration. Bush was the unfortunate recipient of that trend. Then a little thing called 9/11 happened and it’s been all downhill ever since.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Joe, I’m really naive. What’s a “binky”?”
Didn’t you ever have any little cousins or nieces or nephews?
Binky = pacifier
Redcoat
November 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
Brosephus……so as an “independent”, care to share your thoughts on the questions?
Orange12
November 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
GOP wins or loses – Big Deal!
If Washington doesn’t get this sorted out soon every U.S. citizen is going to lose big.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:47 pm
Joe – Thanks for the definition. Yeah, now that you mention it that is what some folks call a pacifier. OK.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
4:47 pm
…. just saying that could be us.
Well yeah, sure. But while our CEOs are sitting in conference rooms trying to make sure profits are maximized before moving ahead, the Germans are out there doing what needs to be done.
JamVet
November 28th, 2012
4:51 pm
At least under Bush it didn’t go down 4%.
Amazing.
Still trying to apologize for the (W)orst Ever.
At this rate, you cons may not retake the White House until global cooling turns the Sahara into a tropical paradise…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
4:52 pm
Then a little thing called 9/11 happened and it’s been all downhill ever since.
The NBER’s Business Cycle Dating Committee has determined that a peak in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in March 2001. A peak marks the end of an expansion and the beginning of a recession. The determination of a peak date in March is thus a determination that the expansion that began in March 1991 ended in March 2001 and a recession began. The expansion lasted exactly 10 years, the longest in the NBER’s chronology
AmericaShrugged
November 28th, 2012
4:52 pm
JHM – Funny how conservatives gladly slapped Bush on the back for his decision to go ahead with the “surge” in Iraq, yet they can’t bring themselves to see the utility of the same farking methodology in Afghanistan.
I prefer take over Iraq and the oil, to the total insanity of bombing, invading, and rebuidling. They’re never gonna like us no matter how many schools we build.
We were attacked by a butthole hiding in a cave in Afghanistan, not some mustachioed jackazz in a business suit in Baghdad.
You’re taking a very simplistic crime and punishment approach to what is actually a large scale religious war. The Islamic extremists want everyone else in the world to convert or die and they will not stop until that happens or they’re all gone. And they control a large percentage of the oil we need.
the only choices are fight and kill them now or wait until they get nukes and missiles and kill us.
If someone came to invade my country when we hadn’t done jack to them, I’d probably pick up a rifle and start shooting too. That wouldn’t make me a terrorist, though.
Some sure, but the extremists came from all over the ME to Iraq for the chance to kill Americans, die in jihad and go to paradise.
Redcoat
November 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
Joe Hussein Mama…..Electric cars….can only be afforded by most with….government subsidies….and where does that come from….you and me…..am I wrong?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 28th, 2012
4:56 pm
Screw the fiscal “cliff”…
Wait for the new congress.
I’m liking that idea more and more and more….
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
Kamchak – I stand corrected. Things started going down in March 2001 (per the NBER), then 9/11 hit six months later, and everything went in a hand basket.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
5:01 pm
So you think two months after Bush was inaugurated the economy started going to heck? No thinking that the collapse of the dot com false economy might have contributed?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
5:04 pm
A. Shrugged — “I prefer take over Iraq and the oil, to the total insanity of bombing, invading, and rebuidling. They’re never gonna like us no matter how many schools we build.”
Patently illegal under international law. If ‘taking over’ Iraq was our stated aim, we’d have had precisely NO allies in that fight. Besides, your preference is irrelevant to the point I made — which was that you’re opposing an Afghani surge despite the success of the selfsame methodology in Iraq.
“You’re taking a very simplistic crime and punishment approach to what is actually a large scale religious war.”
Denied. Even President Bush himself rejected the notion that we were involved in a religious war.
“The Islamic extremists want everyone else in the world to convert or die and they will not stop until that happens or they’re all gone.”
How’s that different from what *you* appear to want?
“And they control a large percentage of the oil we need.”
Rejected. If they did, then we’d be dealing with another oil embargo in re 1974.
“the only choices are fight and kill them now or wait until they get nukes and missiles and kill us.”
Now who’s being overly simplistic? (laughing)
Be that as it may, as a disabled Army veteran myself, I encourage you to saddle up and show us how it’s done, then.
“Some sure, but the extremists came from all over the ME to Iraq for the chance to kill Americans, die in jihad and go to paradise.”
Iraq is irrelevant; they could have just as easily done so if we were in Afghanistan in force — which just so happened to be where the mastermind of 9/11 had parked his carcass at the time.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
5:06 pm
OH NOES! THE DJIA HAS MOVED ANOTHER 107 POINTS AND WE ARE FCREWN!
Wait, what’s that you say?
It moved UP 107 points?
Never mind.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
5:06 pm
Redcoat — “Joe Hussein Mama…..Electric cars….can only be afforded by most with….government subsidies…”
Huh? WTF are you saying?
I could afford one of those, and I’m not government-subsidized.
“.and where does that come from….you and me…..am I wrong?
I’m not sure if you’re right or wrong, because I have no idea what you’re trying to say.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
5:07 pm
N. Yobinnes — “So you think two months after Bush was inaugurated the economy started going to heck? No thinking that the collapse of the dot com false economy might have contributed?”
Maybe it was some of that shakin-in-the-boots business uncertainty some cons like to shriek about that did it.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
5:07 pm
Tesla’s cost $100k. That’s a little too steep for me.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Tesla’s cost $100k. That’s a little too steep for me.”
I’ll getcha one with my lottery winnings. What color do you like? “D
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
So you think two months after Bush was inaugurated the economy started going to heck?
I think that the ten year expansion, that began in March of 1991, peaked and signaled the beginning of a recession.
Just like the NBER said.
That would be the same NBER that has the responsibility of officially calling economic expansions and contractions.
JamVet
November 28th, 2012
5:10 pm
Blaming the historic devastation unleashed by trickle down economics culminating with the events of the September 2008 corporate destruction of capitalism on the attacks of 9/11 is just another absurd and asinine ploy by the apologists to cover up for the (W)orst Ever.
It still amazes me that you rubes actually voted for him…
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
5:10 pm
Joe, I’m not sure but I think he’s asking where does the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles come from.
Erwin's cat
November 28th, 2012
5:10 pm
Tesla’s cost $100k. That’s a little too steep for me.
you can get a LEAF for $27,700
Orange12
November 28th, 2012
5:11 pm
“Screw the fiscal “cliff”…”
Really Granny? How much more in tax are you willing to pay? Are you ready for another recession?
Maybe next election politicians who are willing to work across the aisle should be the only ones deemed electable. At least that way maybe the Gov would start working for the people again.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 28th, 2012
5:12 pm
you can get a LEAF for $27,700
If only.
I’ve got two whole yardfulls of them little suckers.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
5:12 pm
JamVet — “Blaming the historic devastation unleashed by trickle down economics culminating with the events of the September 2008 corporate destruction of capitalism on the attacks of 9/11 is just another absurd and asinine ploy by the apologists to cover up for the (W)orst Ever.”
I remember at the time that a grocery chain (and I want to say it was Winn-Dixie but I could be wrong) blamed its lousy quarterly earnings on 9/11 . . .
. . . despite the fact that the company reported its quarterly results in late October, only about two weeks *after* 9/11.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
5:12 pm
Thanks Joe. What colors do they come in? Meh, black is always an elegant look for an automobile.