GOP gambled on a fiscal crisis, and are losing that gamble
Republicans in Washington took a gamble — a wise gamble, they thought at the time. Believing that Barack Obama was vulnerable and that control of the Senate was well within their grasp, they put off tough negotiations on tax and budget issues until after the 2012 elections, believing that they would then have the momentum, the votes and the power to remake the federal government as they saw fit.
They lost that bet, and they’re now having to come to grips with the consequences. The fiscal crisis that they sought has now arrived, and they find themselves at a significant political disadvantage. The results of a new ABC News/Washington Post poll demonstrate why:
By overwhelming margins, Americans support the Democratic position of raising taxes on those making $250,000 and more. (And let’s remember, the proposed increase is hardly draconian. For a couple with $350,000 in taxable income, it would represent a tax increase of $4,600, or 1.3 percent of their income.)
By even larger margins, Americans reject the conservative option of raising the age at which Americans are eligible for Medicare coverage. And while those numbers tell us a lot about why Republicans are having such a hard time selling their argument, worse news lurks deeper in the bowels of that poll:
Even among self-described conservatives, 47 percent support raising taxes on those Americans doing best in this economy. Among those who call themselves very conservative, the number supporting that tax increase is 45 percent. Americans making $100,000 or more support higher taxes on the wealthy by a 15-point margin. Washington Republicans may be playing to the most vocal portion of their base on this issue, but for everybody else, this is a loser.
Raising the Medicare-eligibility age draws even stronger across-the-board rejection. In fact, Republicans and the “very conservative” reject it by the same two-to-one margin as the rest of America. If Republicans in Congress want to make that the hill on which they choose to fight, good luck to them.
The argument in favor of raising the eligibility age of Medicare and Social Security is two-fold. One is purely financial — by putting off the date on which people are eligible, taxpayers save a lot of money. The second is based on the premise that American lifespans are getting longer, which in turn allows us to push the retirement age off.
However, while that is true for upper-income Americans, it is much less true for those on the lower half of the income distribution scale.
Source: http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/workingpapers/wp108.html
For whatever reason, less affluent Americans have not seen the large improvement in lifespan enjoyed by their countrymen. That’s due in part to the more physically demanding nature of the jobs they often fill, in part to less access to health care and in part to lifestyle differences. Whatever the reason, the differential is significant. Lower-income Americans — in most cases people who have worked hard all of their lives — arrive at age 65 in worse physical shape than their counterparts, and for them, deferring retirement is a real hardship.
And as the poll above demonstrates, many in that situation are probably conservative Republican voters.
– Jay Bookman
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432 comments Add your comment
MANGLER
November 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
So should someone in their 20’s or 30’s – you know, starting out in their professional lives if you will, honestly expect to ever receive social security or a pension? Those concepts seem like they will have long died by the time we retire. Wait, retire? That’s not necessarily a foreseeable option either. We’re having to plan ahead for their not being a social safety net. Perhaps more of y’all should have done that as well. But we’ll keep paying into your system while you cost more and more.
the cat
November 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
Thulsa Doom
November 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
Bro,
sure buddy. the tea party folks were raping, defecating on cop cars, rioting and destroying property, assaulting cops, and getting arrested literally by the thousands. ludicrous.
True, and there are pictures to prove it. Thulsa-weren’t you there?
tm
November 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
As usual the focus is on Tax Tax Tax. Nothing about Cut Cut Cut. So the plan to reduce Trillion dollar deficits is to increasing revenues by a mere $100 billion. Yeap that government math for you.
bookman parrot
November 28th, 2012
1:13 pm
to Brosephus™
November 28th, 2012
12:47 pm
So what is your point? You don’t like money flowing from your pocket if Repubs are in power… but you are okay with money flowing from your pocket if Dems are in power??? Who is the sheeple in that case?
weetamoe
November 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
Never let a crisis go to waste is the mantra of the Obama gang. We have a shiftless president too lazy to lead blaming just the republicans in the house and no one else for all of the problems he has been too lazy or shiftless or incompetent to handle. We have a president who sneers you didn’t build that to hard working Americans–a president who hustled over a billion in tax obligations from those same hard-working Americans to implement his stimulus program which provided no stimulus because he had other plans for the money than the shovel-ready jobs he lied about. No jobs and a gad-about president who probably does not know which end of a shovel is which—yet.
JamVet
November 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
The right wing’s bizarre and utterly misguided histrionics and malicious lies about tens and tens of thousands of good, honest, hard working, tax paying American protesters in dozens and dozens of American cities, who were exercising their constitutional rights to redress of grievances REALLY worked out great for the GOP three weeks ago, huh?
Slurring countless American citizens – housewives, nuns, teachers, college students, middle class office workers, policemen, firefighters and veterans included – over the acts of a TINY, TINY, TINY few, was beyond foolish.
Because as Frederick Douglass said – agitate, agitate, agitate.
OCCUPY WALL STREET.
OCCUPY WASHINGTON.
OCCUPY BOARDROOMS.
We ain’t gonna take it
Never did and we never will
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHtl6UFSSI
Nero
November 28th, 2012
1:16 pm
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
The end is nigh leeches.
tm
November 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
As usual the focus is on Tax Tax Tax. Nothing about Cut Cut Cut. So the plan to reduce Trillion dollar deficits is to increasing revenues by a mere $100 billion. Yeap that’s government math for you.
getalife
November 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
The gop are ignoring the American voters again.
The gop will not make it.
RIP gop.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
1:20 pm
wwetamoe — “Never let a crisis go to waste is the mantra of the Obama gang. We have a shiftless president too lazy to lead blaming just the republicans in the house and no one else for all of the problems he has been too lazy or shiftless or incompetent to handle. We have a president who sneers you didn’t build that to hard working Americans–a president who hustled over a billion in tax obligations from those same hard-working Americans to implement his stimulus program which provided no stimulus because he had other plans for the money than the shovel-ready jobs he lied about. No jobs and a gad-about president who probably does not know which end of a shovel is which—yet.”
And it just *tears you up inside* that such a ’shiftless incompetent’ beat your candidate like he was a rented mule, doesn’t it?
IOW, if Obama was so lousy, what does that say about *your* thoroughly beaten candidate?
Stop worrying about how crappy the Dems are and start worrying about how spitty YOUR side is.
straitroad
November 28th, 2012
1:20 pm
Brosephus,
Why not move out to a liberal bastion such as California, where the policies may be a better fit for you? They have the debt and high taxes that you may be looking for.
Mick
November 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
weeta
“You didn’t build that”, and the selective use of those words has been disproven again and again, yet, the propaganda has been so deeply ingrained that the lie becomes your truth.
At the very least, get your facts straight…
Nero
November 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
Retired Boomer leech prognostications about the demise of Republicans are hilarious.
Paul
November 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
0311
““………….. not hurt U.S. economic growth MUCH (emphasis added) in 2013 ………”
…………….. as opposed to doing something that would help it GROW !
Geez !”
Geez, 0311?
What you originally contended was “Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it won’t make a difference”
“WON’T make A difference,” which is patently untrue, isn’t it? Doesn’t your church have a term for people who spread falsehoods? Or do you exempt yourself from that commandment?
You also said “Even if the Congressional Budget Office says it …will actually hurt growth.”
Actually HURT growth? It did? Where? You never provided a cite for your assertion. You also had to read my cite for the word ‘much’ and try to use that as an out. But…. you never even read the article, or you’d have known that was talking of JOB growth and was at odds in degree with Republican claims.
You also didn’t comprehend that the article later said ECONOMIC growth would actually improve.
Which is also at odds with your claim.
Used to be discussing an issue used to be at least moderately entertaining. Now, it just comes across as…. what’s the word?
“Geez”
Alex
November 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
@ jamvet:RRRRRRRRRRR, oh wait, I can’t miss my flight for a FOOTBALL game RRRRRRRRRRRRRR OCCUPY LUCAS FIELD RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Regnad Kcin
November 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
So, what’s with this new conservative meme: “Obama needs to quit talking to the American people, and get into the smoke-filled room”? Ii’s been mentioned multiple times today, and there must have been some extra points that made it seem less stupid than it sounds, right?
I’m sure discussions are ongoing at the staff level, and the republicans have made it pretty clear they’re unwilling to move from their “talking points” at this time. Any conservatives want to explain who created this meme, and why it makes sense?
Jm
November 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
Obstructionist democrats driving america over the cliff
mm
November 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
“You and your party of Democrats have created such a disdainful campaign of hate and division that it corrupts the very social fabric of this country.
Utterly shameful and abhorrent. The Democrat Party is solely the architect of this American division and hateful feeling.”
Someone got into the eggnog a bit early.
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
November 28th, 2012
1:25 pm
1. Let Bush-era tax cuts expire on all households with $500,000 or more in earnings.
2. Eliminate most tax loopholes.
3. Implement a minimum tax rate of 23% on income from all sources for households with income in excess of $1 million.
4. Eliminate the cap for social security payroll deductions
5. Require that Medicare negotiate drug prices with the Pharmaceutical companies.
6. Impose severe prison sentences for Medicare fraud including asset forfeiture.
7. Require that ALL tax cheats have their names published.
Paul
November 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
Erwin’s cat
Thanks, even that portrayal is at odds with what 0311 claimed the CBO said.
Brosephus™
November 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
So what is your point?
Is English not your first language? My point is exactly what the poster I was quoting said. People have no problem with increasing taxes on other people. Is that not what the GOP does here? Does it matter which party does it if they both do the same thing?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
Raising the age for Social Security and Medicare is a common-sense approach to addressing the long-term financial problems of both of those programs. Heck, it was common sense 25 years ago.
Dang straight! People ought to be able to work till they’re 95 or so. Unless their cos. decide to push them out ’cause they’re so danged old. Then they can tough it out till they make it to 95. Problem solved!
stands for decibels
November 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
True, and there are pictures to prove it. Thulsa-weren’t you there?
[...]
over the acts of a TINY, TINY, TINY few
Sigh. I probably shouldn’t get sucked into this ridiculous sub-thread, but whenever some rightie plays the “OWS raped! and they pooped! for realz!” it is tempting.
‘cuz last I bothered to look, apparently out of all the OWS encampments over the course of several months–remember, these were generally open to literally anyone who wished to crash there–there were a couple of documented instances of sexual assault.
Now if one were to follow all the people who participated in TeaPer events back home, and see if any of them engaged in some criminal activity of a similar nature, I’d say the odds are around 100% that you’d find *something* you could pin on them. Of course Tea Party rallies weren’t encampments, so it’s an apples:oranges thing.
as for the ridiculous “pooping on police cars” (plural!)–of course there was one gag photo someone took of a guy with his pants down leaning against a squad car. Thus a million legends were born.
and I suspect a guy like Thulsa knows this and doesn’t much care that he’s BSing us.
guy
November 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
Donovan is right on the mark! Also,the leftists who were re-elected are so arrogant that they think they are never wrong. Who knows but time will tell. Listen,this country is bankrupt and it is what it is. You can’t print money forever and expect things to improve. We are all expecting a miracle with trillions in debt and no one wants to pay n it.How insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Erwin's cat
November 28th, 2012
1:28 pm
Paul – that portrayal is at odds with itself a bit…it seems to provide cherry picking material for both sides
Brosephus™
November 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
Why not move out to a liberal bastion such as California, where the policies may be a better fit for you?
Why should I move when I am a born and raised Southerner? What makes you think I’m a liberal and want liberal policies? Why can’t y’all dumb assed conservatives own up that your elected leaders do the same thing that y’all claim Democrats do?
Alex
November 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
@ regnad, The president didn’t exactly make both sides of the isle feel included in the final health care act. Anyone got a Camel?
Paul
November 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
Mangler
“So should someone in their 20’s or 30’s – you know, starting out in their professional lives if you will, honestly expect to ever receive social security or a pension? ”
Many here you’re addressing that to remember having the same discussions when they were in their 20s and 30s. Only difference was, back then it wasn’t a stated Republican goal to end SS/Medicare as we now know it.
stands for decibels
November 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
Listen,this country is bankrupt
Listen, no it is not.
We are the richest, most powerful nation ever on this planet.
cmac22
November 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
WOW! Those are really great & boring charts!! How about a chart that shows that Romney was about 320,000 votes short of attaining 270+ electoral college votes & then the Neanderthal obozo would be packing!!
But he is not, so let’s just keep borrowing money to get us out of debt …. what a bunch of idiots that have been chosen to run this country …. right into the ground!
mm
November 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
” But we’ll keep paying into your system while you cost more and more.”
“As usual the focus is on Tax Tax Tax. Nothing about Cut Cut Cut.”
The cons have gone over the reality cliff.
Nero
November 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
Notice how N-GA didn’t mention spending cuts once. That’s the mentality that will ensure there will be no sham compromise. Bring on the sequestration.
stands for decibels
November 28th, 2012
1:31 pm
I guess it’s time once again to post this handy dandy guide.
http://www.alternet.org/economy/8-facts-prove-our-govt-not-going-broke?page=0%2C1&paging=off
Debt is only too high if the underlying economy is shaky. Investors all over the world are betting that the U.S. is the strongest, most stable nation right now, and over the long haul. They expect our economy to grow which automatically will shrink the debt ratio. It’s simple math. Economy up, debt down as a percentage of the economy (all other things being equal).
Despite what you hear from nearly every media outlet and every politician, investors do not see our debt as dangerously high. They are more than willing to pour money into the most stable, dynamic economy in the world – one that is both safe now, and likely to grow in the future.
Paul
November 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
N-GA
That would definitely solve the problem.
Erwin’s cat
I don’t think so. It said job growth would be slightly affected, though not nearly as much as Republicans claim. It also said economic growth would improve. It would be small, but it would be there, nonetheless.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
DB says it isn’t real.
East Lake Ira
November 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
Dammit Alex.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
guy
Mostly we lefties simply want to insure that we won’t revert to the supply side goofiness that got us in this mess in the first place.
You got a problem with that?
Erwin's cat
November 28th, 2012
1:34 pm
We are the richest, most powerful nation ever on this planet
per capita by 2011 GDP we’re #7
F. Sinkwich
November 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
“What makes you think I’m a liberal and want liberal policies?”
Kinda funny how liberals don’t want to be called that.
Mick
November 28th, 2012
1:36 pm
The sorest of losers just won’t give it up-
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/11/27/2360565/lawmaker-shares-last-chance-idea.html
stands for decibels
November 28th, 2012
1:37 pm
Many here you’re addressing that to remember having the same discussions when they were in their 20s and 30s.
yep.
Only difference was, back then it wasn’t a stated Republican goal to end SS/Medicare as we now know it.
yeah, but there’ve been right wing elements trying to dismantle these very successful public institutions from the moment they were instituted, doing their best to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt.
TaxPayer
November 28th, 2012
1:37 pm
The Medicare-receiving Republicans blogging here are clearly in the polling minority. The 30 percent that want to give up what they paid for with their payroll taxes. That’s so charitable of them.
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
November 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
@Nero – I also notice how you and those like you NEVER engage in a discussion of FIT history. So once again I will provide the link: http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets
Just scroll down to the Eisenhower years when the highest FIT was 91%. Sales taxes averaged about 2%. Now the highest FIT rate is 35% and sales tax rates have tripled. The wealthy are paying taxes at the lowest rate in more than 60 years while most Americans are paying sales taxes, fuel taxes, etc. at the highest rates in history.
Deal with the taxes and cut defense spending. How’s that, Nero?
Paul
November 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
” Romney was about 320,000 votes short of attaining 270+ electoral college votes & then the Neanderthal obozo would be packing!!”
Ohmygoodness, cmac22, I never, ever guessed you are a flaming Democratic liberal!!
I get surprised every time I visit this blog.
See, Donovan identified you earlier today:
” You and your party of Democrats have created such a disdainful campaign of hate and division that it corrupts the very social fabric of this country.”
Jack ®
November 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
In thumbing through the posts, I saw one by Bookman who said he laughed right out loud. Typical liberal behavior. He was laughing because someone dared to offer an opinion contrary to his.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
1:39 pm
F. Sinkiewicz — “Kinda funny how liberals don’t want to be called that.”
Kinda funny how conservatives want to assert ownership over the word and determine what it means.
Yet they can’t run away fast enough from cons like Akin and Mourdock.
Bill Orvis White
November 28th, 2012
1:39 pm
Raising taxe$ in a recession is the dumbest thing any leader can “accomplish.” The fact is that King Hussein Obama piled on trillions of dollar$ in new ObamaDebt which we will pass on to our great grandkids. We need fiscal responsibility NOW. Why do we have to pay for this ridiculous ObamaDebt? Why? Amen, Bill
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
1:39 pm
cmac22
November 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
WOW! Those are really great & boring charts!! How about a chart that shows that Romney was about 320,000 votes short of attaining 270+ electoral college votes & then the Neanderthal obozo would be packing!!
But he is not, so let’s just keep borrowing money to get us out of debt …. what a bunch of idiots that have been chosen to run this country …. right into the ground!
+++++++++++++++++
You just can’t cure stupid. Here is another alt proving that. Same old tired lies, same old tired bumper sticker phrases, same old stupid names for the President.
Yawn.
JoeFann
November 28th, 2012
1:39 pm
Posturing and vote-buying (from both sides) got us here, but it won’t get us out of here. The cliff doesn’t scare me as much as the lack of consideration for the nation’s well-being. Tough choices MUST be made. There isn’t enough income tax revenue available to eliminate the deficit. Even if you tax the top 2% at 75% or more, it won’t offset the overspending authorized by this government. (And they’ll leave–see France.) Revenues and expenses must be equalized, at worst. Revenues must be increased. Defense must be cut, but so must entitlements. I’m OK with returning to Clinton-era taxes if we can also go to Clinton-era spending. The budgetary elephants are in entitlements which have built-in increases due to actuarial issues. More people are becoming eligible than we’ll soon be able to support, and increases in geriatric health compounds the issue. I’m fine with leaving the current benefits as is, or to make phased changes by age, for everyone 55 and over. (I’m under.) But we need a sustainable plan for younger Americans. I don’t have all the answers, but clearly, the current governmental occupants prefer to stand in a corner throwing raspberries at each other while the rest of us want them to work it out. For us. Simpson-Bowles is a start. But it’s only a start. More debt is not an option.
Go Dawgs!
stands for decibels
November 28th, 2012
1:39 pm
per capita by 2011 GDP we’re #7
well, by that yardstick, we’re lower, I think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita
(oh noes Luxembourgians gonna kick our ass)
Paul
November 28th, 2012
1:40 pm
Mick
What part of “Romney lost by 3 million votes” doesn’t she understand?
Regnad Kcin
November 28th, 2012
1:40 pm
“Sandra needs her free pills brother”
Grasshopper, you’re so silly! She never wanted free pills. Please show a link that she wanted free pills.
bookmanisaliar
November 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
I’ve changed my mind at raising taxes. Raise them all….have the country go in the crapper. Raise them so companies, governments, and universities will have to lay off overpaid college professors, union presidents, actors and actresses, overpaid columnists, and pro athletes.
Recon 0311 2533
November 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
Hopefully Obama will get off the campaign trail at least for a little while and try to be a presidential leader. As difficult as it is for him to do he should try to lead by sitting down with Republicans in good faith and discuss spending cuts and entitlement reform in a very specific manner. If it’s a worst case scenario whereby we do go off the so called fiscal cliff and everyone is faced with tax increases it won’t take long for Obama and the Democrats to be sitting right along side Republicans on the hot seat that will get hotter each day. The snake oil of taxing upper income earners as the nations financial panacea will become a tired worthless argument that the voters will no longer accept.
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
1:43 pm
Check email Brocephus. I’ll bet you have some hate mail……..
Mick
November 28th, 2012
1:44 pm
“Bartlett’s article deserves wide circulation, imho; worth reading the whole thing. Whoever thought I’d favorably link to American Conservative magazine? Some excerpts follow:
“I’m at ground zero in the saga of Republicans closing their eyes to any facts or evidence that conflict with their dogma. Rather than listen to me, they threw me under a bus.
For more than 30 years, I was very comfortable within the conservative wing of the Republican Party. [I worked for or with: Goldwater, Nixon, Young Republicans (during Vietnam), Ron Paul in 1976, Jack Kemp, supply-side economists, Jude Wanniski, Heritage Fdn, Reagan's White House, Gary Bauer, James Baker, Nick Brady, Glenn Hubbard, Cato Institute and NCPA; and wrote conservative editorials for: WSJ, Washington (Moonie) Times, Investor's Business Daily, NY Sun, etc.]
In November 2003, I had an intellectual crisis… The [2004] article is best remembered for his quote from an anonymous White House official dismissing critics like me for being “the reality-based community.” … I was banned from Fox News… extended throughout Rupert Murdoch’s empire. After careful research [in 2007-08], I came to the annoying conclusion that Keynes had been 100% right in the 1930s. Previously, I had thought the opposite. … I had previously viewed Krugman as an intellectual enemy and attacked him… For the record, no one has been more correct in his analysis and prescriptions for the economy’s problems than Paul Krugman. The blind hatred for him on the right simply pushed me further away from my old allies and comrades.
The final line for me to cross in complete alienation from the right was my recognition that Obama is not a leftist. In fact, he’s barely a liberal—and only because the political spectrum has moved so far to the right that moderate Republicans from the past are now considered hardcore leftists by right-wing standards today.”
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
1:45 pm
bookmanisaliar
November 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
I’ve changed my mind at raising taxes. Raise them all….have the country go in the crapper. Raise them so companies, governments, and universities will have to lay off overpaid college professors, union presidents, actors and actresses, overpaid columnists, and pro athletes.
+++++++++++++++
Sounds about as brilliant as anything else the Republicans have suggested. Thanks for playing.
Now hush, the grown ups are talking.
Erwin's cat
November 28th, 2012
1:46 pm
STANDS –
http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/
I’ve got Qatar at #1 and Luxembourg #2…I did pick up a data roaming charge from Luxembourg once when in Switzerland…it was a very pricy few megs
Paul
November 28th, 2012
1:46 pm
Recon
“The snake oil of taxing upper income earners as the nations financial panacea will become a tired worthless argument that the voters will no longer accept.”
Whoever said it was a panacea?
Besides you?
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
1:47 pm
Jack ®
November 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
In thumbing through the posts, I saw one by Bookman who said he laughed right out loud. Typical liberal behavior. He was laughing because someone dared to offer an opinion contrary to his.
++++++++++++++
Naw, he gets opinions contrary to his all the time. He laughed because that one was so butt stupid.
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
November 28th, 2012
1:47 pm
You can tell a lot about people who want to raise the age for Medicare eligibility to 67. I can tell you first hand what it will cost the average couple for 2 years of Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Well over $150,000 in premiums alone. When I reached age 60 and my wife was 56, our BC/BS premium rose to $2950/mo. even though we raised deductibles and co-pays. That was several years ago. I can only imagine what those premiums would be today. TMI? Certainly more than I wanted to share, but necessary in order to give you the facts!
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
1:51 pm
Hey N-Ga: I’ll bet Romney called you a moocher too, didn’t he?
I hope you and your wife are doing well. I’m thinking you earned it.
Recon 0311 2533
November 28th, 2012
1:54 pm
“Whoever said it was a panacea?”
Paul, that’s all Obama’s been talking about in specifics unless you have something that says otherwise. Does he have a plan?
St Simons - aboriginal BOOTAKOOK 2014
November 28th, 2012
1:54 pm
Lock the damn doors, Barack.
don’t come out til Jan 2nd
I call it the Chixulub Plan
it’ll make these dinosaurs go extinct, too.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 28th, 2012
1:54 pm
bookmanis — “Raise them so companies, governments, and universities will have to lay off overpaid college professors”
What do you think you know about how much college professors make?
Ol' Timer
November 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
The GOTP thought they had the world on a string after the elections of 2010. But the folks they elected and tried to elect were so extreme — so out of touch with reality — that the American People did a do-over and corrected their mistake of 201 in 2012.
Now, if these ol’ boys don’t get with the program — put aside the radical partisanism as articulated by Mitch McConnel and his stripe — the “do-over might just continue and expand to include some who think they’re a part of the woodwork of Congress,
Karma is a beach!
Krystal'sBalls
November 28th, 2012
1:57 pm
As a 6 figure income earner though a great deal less than $250k/yr, I am ALL FOR keeping the tax cuts in place for all but the top 2%. But you know what??? Should these clowns not reach a deal and my taxes go up with everyone else’s because of this so-called “cliff”, you WON’T hear me walking around or come out here even – beyyotchin’ and complainin’.
Welcome to the Occupation
November 28th, 2012
1:57 pm
Brosephus: “OWS folks copycatted the Tea Party People. Try again dude”
How do you mean?
OWS didn’t have people trumpeting their cause on major networks like CNBC, and no bankrolling from outlets like ALEC. Big difference.
stands for decibels
November 28th, 2012
1:58 pm
Erwin’s @ 1.46 — Ah, I see, thanks for showing your work. Kind of strange that there’s quite so much a disparity in IMF numbers as reported by your site, and what wiki shows. (I followed the latter’s link but… well, I kinda got losted.)
TaxPayer
November 28th, 2012
1:59 pm
I can tell you first hand what it will cost the average couple for 2 years of Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
This information is of no value to a Republican because, as they will tell you, when they get sick they just crawl off into a pre-dug grave and die immediately after raking the last bit of dirt over their bodies (it’s part of their “I built that” mentality) hence they have no need for insurance. Isn’t that so Ayn Randian of them, you ask? No. Ayn succumbed to the burden of illness without sufficient resources and thus accepted government-provided aid, unlike anything today’s Republican would ever dream of doing.
indigo
November 28th, 2012
2:00 pm
Nero
If you ever expect to make it to the ninth grade, stop posting here and start concentrating on your homeschool studies.
Paul
November 28th, 2012
2:00 pm
Recon
“that’s all Obama’s been talking about in specifics”
He didn’t say entitlements are on the table?
He said no entitlement reform is necessary because a few percent marginal tax hike on the wealthiest will solve all our problems?!!?
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
2:01 pm
Here is something just for Dell and the rest of you butt hurt Republicans who are still in denial.
http://tinyurl.com/ct6yxkp
Dharma Bum
November 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
Raising taxes on someone else feels good, but ultimately will not cure the ills plaguing the U.S. There aren’t enough people making over $250,000 to help offset the out of control spending the government pushes through. Hell, tax those people at 100% and it still won’t help. This problem began with spending and it will end with spending… expenditures in all areas must be reduced.
Paul
November 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
N-GA
Ouch, ouch and ouch.
Been thinking of you and your family in that regard when another event occurred within my family. I do hope everything is well.
Recon 0311 2533
November 28th, 2012
2:04 pm
“He said no entitlement reform is necessary because a few percent marginal tax hike on the wealthiest will solve all our problems?!!?”
Paul…Huh?
Paul
November 28th, 2012
2:05 pm
Dharma Bum
Reduced by nearly 40%?
Any idea how to accomplish that?
BRW
November 28th, 2012
2:05 pm
“Hell, tax those people at 100% and it still won’t help”
Not factual in the least. It will “HELP” it just will not solve the issue completely.
atler8
November 28th, 2012
2:06 pm
Donovan
I just saw the angry & utterly vapid lines of BS you posted at 12:31.
It hasn’t been the Democratic party that has pushed “wedge issues” & become the party of social conservatism these past 30 years. As they wooed those voters, the republicans lost the moorings that had bound them to their original truer conservative roots.
Get a grip!
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
November 28th, 2012
2:07 pm
Thank you, Fred. I am never really sure where I fall (moocher? maybe). I did pay more than $1 million in FIT one year. Ouch? Yes. But ever so grateful that I was in a position to have to pay that much. Not bad for an old ex-staff sergeant, huh. The G.I. Bill was good to me!
Regnad Kcin
November 28th, 2012
2:07 pm
“There aren’t enough people making over $250,000 to help offset the out of control spending the government pushes through”
*sigh*
Recon 0311 2533
November 28th, 2012
2:07 pm
“Not factual in the least. It will “HELP” it just will not solve the issue completely.”
Correct…It would fund the federal government for about 5 months.
Jay, at 12:44pm today I asked you...
November 28th, 2012
2:09 pm
…to provide stats for how much the taxes on those making $250K or more would amount – maybe you are still calculating, so I will continue to be patient. However, I will give you a hint – I heard on some show today that “all that tax money from those wealthy cats making above $250K” will run the government for EIGHT WHOLE DAYS – can you disprove this number?
Inquiring minds would like to know so that we can believe those charts that you so gratuitously supplied to prove your talking points on this topic…
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
2:09 pm
How about we can all talk what we would do with the half a BILLION dollars from the Powerball that none of us are going to win. LOL I hope I I remember to buy a ticket. I forgot last Saturday.
Remember the ad when the lottery was first started? The most fun you can have with a dollar. And here now, thanks to Nathan Deal and the rest of those damn Republicans, it’s 2 dollars…….. (I know it’s multi-state and Nathan had nothing to do with it, but don’t ruin my illogical rant please). I know If I won I’d finance the
SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS
Paul
November 28th, 2012
2:10 pm
Recon
I understood your assertion to be Obama views tax hikes as a panacea, with no other actions required.
I understand you later said ‘in specifics’ but he put it out there. Seems to me the onus is more on Republicans who’ve been repeating the mantra of entitlement reform. Yet they’ve put out as much in specifics as has the Pres.
guy
November 28th, 2012
2:11 pm
grannygodzilla Are you threatening me?
Please don’t hurt me .I’m frightened! Call 911
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
November 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
Paul – Always good to hear from you. I do observe this blog (vicariously, usually). Little has changed on the blog so I prefer to try to make a difference in other ways. Funny how facts seem to have so little impact on many people who allow religious beliefs to dictate their every action.
The home front is stable…thank you for your thoughts. Mine are with you & yours…..
btull27
November 28th, 2012
2:14 pm
The only saving grace for Democrats is that Republicans are bigger idiots than they are. You all like to bid farewell to conservatism like there was a landslide of support for liberalism. Even taking the “omnipotent” Obama vs the “money hungry” Romney, the vote was split almost 50/50. We continue to watch both parties, which are both run by idiots, run this country down one bad road after another and we’ve fallen into the belief this is all we have to chose from. I for one have become sick of both parties and think neither have the capability to make an intelligent decision. Every move either makes is made based on keeping or gaining power tomorrow. It’s like watching a 1-9 team play an 0-10 team for the championship. Not very compelling.
East Lake Ira
November 28th, 2012
2:15 pm
We need some inflation.
And another Stimulus.
And cuts to Defense.
And more tax revenue from the rich and the Finacial sector.
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
2:15 pm
Paul: I think Del is confused about the last line on your 2:00 post:
He said no entitlement reform is necessary because a few percent marginal tax hike on the wealthiest will solve all our problems?!!?
Truthfully, I’m confused as well. What did you mean?
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
2:17 pm
East Lake Ira
November 28th, 2012
2:15 pm
We need some inflation.
And another Stimulus.
And cuts to Defense.
And more tax revenue from the rich and the Finacial sector.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That’s a decent start Ira, but we also need cuts in entitlement spending as well as foreign aid and corporate welfare. As a matter of fact, we need to find cuts in everything the Government funds. Thoughtful cuts, not just mindless slashing.
But you had a good start. Here’s a gold star to take home to mommy.
Paul
November 28th, 2012
2:18 pm
N-GA
” Not bad for an old ex-staff sergeant, huh. ”
Yeah, but you were Air Force and that makes all the difference -
Redcoat
November 28th, 2012
2:19 pm
Since the Dems/Libs have convinced most everyone that taxing the rich will solve the problems, I’ll be waiting to see how they will blame the republicans for it’s failure……you know it’s coming…….
East Lake Ira
November 28th, 2012
2:20 pm
Need a good laugh?
http://conservativefactcheck.com/
Recon 0311 2533
November 28th, 2012
2:21 pm
Paul,
They’ve proposed capping deductions for the wealthy and reducing their entitlement benefits. Those proposals should I think be specific enough for reciprocating proposals beyond extending Bush era tax reductions for those earning less than 250K and discontinuing those reductions for incomes in excess of that amount. Those tax increases would only achieve revenue of about 802 billion over 10 years an insignificant increase.
East Lake Ira
November 28th, 2012
2:21 pm
Fred – pound sand.
Redcoat
November 28th, 2012
2:22 pm
Just raise the taxes and get it over with…….what are you waiting on?…..The timing has to be just right maybe?
mm
November 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
“Kinda funny how liberals don’t want to be called that.”
Only in the mind of a con.
getalife
November 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
How do we get the failed gop out of the way of our economy?
Fred ™`
November 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
East Lake Ira
November 28th, 2012
2:21 pm
Fred – pound sand.
+++++++++++++++++
Really? I compliment you for your good start and you insult me? Why?