Time to end Norquist’s death grip on tax policy
Mitt Romney lost big on election night and has continued to take a beating from his fellow Republicans ever since. The lack of affection toward Romney is no surprise, but the post-election response has also revealed an absence of basic respect for the man among conservatives. It is hard to recall a candidate so thoroughly and quickly repudiated by those who just a few days earlier were touting him for the most important job on the planet.
Karl Rove, who wasn’t even on the ballot, has also lost big in the days since the election, suffering a hit to his reputation from which he may never fully recover. However, the biggest off-ballot loser of the season may turn out to be Grover Norquist, the one-man keeper of the GOP’s no-tax-hike-ever-ever-ever-under-any-circumstances-whatsoever pledge.
I must say, it couldn’t happen to a nicer, more deserving guy.
As Dana Milbanks reports, Norquist continues to put on a game front. Just this week, Norquist told a gathering at a Washington think tank that “he sees no chance of Republicans going squishy” and allowing tax hikes to pass as part of a budget compromise.
“The Rs are holding,” he announced at a luncheon Monday of the Center for the National Interest.
“The fantasy is that the Republicans would cave on marginal tax rates — they’re non-negotiable,” he added.
In fact, Norquist maintained, if you think there’s any erosion of support for his Pledge, which forbids any net increase in taxes, Norquist would like you to know something. “You’re mistaken,” he said. “The entire Republican leadership has been elected on that commitment in the House and the Senate.”
I think Norquist is wrong, and that he knows he’s wrong. Most of the signals coming out of Washington suggest that in the end, the final budget deal will include a higher marginal tax rate on the wealthiest of Americans. If that happens, if the Norquist pledge is broken en masse, as seems likely, his bizarre source of political power disappears as well.
That said, a lot of Americans have yet to be convinced of the GOP’s willingness and ability to compromise. According to a new Gallup poll, 65 percent of Americans believe that President Obama will make a sincere effort to reach bipartisan compromise. Only 48 percent say the same about congressional Republicans. Among independents, only 43 percent believe Republicans are sincerely willing to compromise.
As the chart above demonstrates, those numbers are down significantly from four years ago, when 62 percent of Americans had faith that Republicans were interested in compromise. Somebody out there has been paying attention, which gives Obama and the Democrats considerably more leeway in the negotiations ahead.
– Jay Bookman
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620 comments Add your comment
Soothsayer
November 20th, 2012
11:34 am
This goes especially to thogwumpy (if you’re still here) although I doubt he will believe it because if’s not Rush doing the talking.
BTW, Socialism is where the proletariat (i.e., workers) control the means of production and not the bourgeoisie (i.e., capital). No more, no less. It’s amazing to see the various “definitions” of socialism advanced here. For instance, if the workers at Hostess, through there unions, purchased hostess, then that would be (to a degree) socialism.
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
11:34 am
I want to thank you and your Bayou Tigers for SOFTENING up BAMA for the SECCG!
Geaux Dawgs!
EC
You sure they haven’t started handing out that hooch already? I think somebody’s gotten into the jug already.
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:35 am
Absolutely….stop spending more than we have….until that is done we will not get anywhere. Socialism is a wonderful thing until you run out of other people’s money
–
The goal in government is to decide what services you want the government to have, and then plan how to raise the revenue to pay for it.
Whether taxes are too low or too high at any point is relative to what your idea of government is. Same with whether spending is too low or too high.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
11:36 am
“the military has a limited amount of people being funded by the taxpayers”
Socialism, say it.
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
11:36 am
Regnad – hardly…10 states were won by less than 100k votes…I get the EC thing but it is hardly a metric for a “thumping” or a “mandate”…the pendulum can easily swing the other way while you are thumping your chest
Barack's the best
November 20th, 2012
11:37 am
Oscar – I suspect you wouldn’t know socialism from capitalism from anarchsim from schism from prism even if you were slapped upside the head by each of them in rapid succession.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
11:37 am
“the pendulum can easily swing the other way”
No, the gop decided to stay the course so you will continue to lose.
alex
November 20th, 2012
11:37 am
@ getalife, It was not meant to be an obnoxious question;in order to discuss something we need to know the definition of some of the componenets of the discussion. You’re answer was ignorant and adolescent and worthless and did nothing to help move the discussion forward which will require compromise…
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
11:38 am
“Regnad – hardly…10 states were won by less than 100k votes…I get the EC thing but it is hardly a metric for a “thumping” or a “mandate”…the pendulum can easily swing the other way while you are thumping your chest”
I don’t disagree, EC. Also, I should have said something more like, “Obama is projected to win by about 62% – 38%,” since the election has not yet occurred…
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
11:39 am
Obama won the popular vote by less than 1%
if I went around in this kind of get-up, I’d probably believe that, too.
Mary Elizabeth
November 20th, 2012
11:39 am
Alex,
Mary,teacher, purveyour of thoughtless dribble, you don’t have a novel thought, 35 years of teaching middle schoolers and that is what you are. Harsh words, but it is what it is. Stay ignorant and you will continue to marginalize yourself, Goodness…You are welcome, Good morning Class..Sheesh
================================================
TO ALEX, you are still spouting error and still spouting foolish stereotypes. Let me spell it out to you directly, ALEX: Anyone who writes a post such as yours, above, is a disgrace to the teaching profession.
And, if you had bothered to read my post on the previous thread you would have realized that I did not spend my educational career teaching middle school children, but seniors in high school and adults who were teachers.
Error and stereotypes fill your mind and fill your posts and you have the gall to lecture me! Foolish, arrogant man.
The link below will give my post to you – one more time – if you care to be informed, accurately. My post is next to last.
IMO, you are an arrogant, pompous j*rk who has the gall to call others juvenile names and then assume you are educated. What arrogance and ignorance, you possess in combination and without any self-awareness. I pity you.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/11/19/the-future-of-capitalism-will-not-look-like-its-past/?cp=5
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:40 am
Barack’s the best
November 20th, 2012
11:37 am
________
I know what socialism is, and what capitalis is.
I don’t think you know up from down. And probably could not find you waay out of a closet or plan your way out of a box.
And you never will.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
11:40 am
alex,
I am talking to you, an ignorant con so I will dumb it down for you.
The wealthy does not need your help or government welfare help.
When you finally grasp this fact we can talk like adults.
TaxPayer
November 20th, 2012
11:40 am
I heard that the Republicans just have not figured out how to present their message in an appropriately eloquent manner yet and once they figure that out they are sure to be the biggest weiners. At least that’s what Rove, Limbaugh, Romney, et al, are saying.
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
11:41 am
…but the post-election response has also revealed an absence of basic respect for the man among conservatives. It is hard to recall a candidate so thoroughly and quickly repudiated by those who just a few days earlier were touting him for the most important job on the planet.
The consequences of frauds who vote for a………………………… fraud.
And Rove and Norquist are but two of the more morally disgusting, intellectually dishonest men, among many others over the past thirty years, who have brought the once Grand Old Party to its current pathetic state.
Well done to those who enabled them…
RF
November 20th, 2012
11:41 am
“the gop decided to stay the course so you will continue to lose”
Yeah, but they’ll trot Rubio out there and maybe pull Condi out of the wings and say “see, we told you we were inclusive…how did you ever get the idea we weren’t?” while they try to quietly deal with the TP guys who got in there in ‘10 and will muck up anything the rest of the party tries to do. They’re going to do a lot of surface work to look more moderate in the mean time though.
Look before I leap...
November 20th, 2012
11:41 am
If every one of the jack@sses inside the beltway remembered just one thing;
They represent the entire district/state/country that elected them and not just those that voted for them
We’d get a lot more done in the country.
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:41 am
The right wing thinks any kind of government activity is socialism. And they want to eliminate it.
Feudalism is their goal.
josef
November 20th, 2012
11:42 am
GT
“Josef no cable,”
No one had cable during segregation.
“…weak grainy pictures,”
Pretty much the case outside the city in any part of the country at the time…
” weak radio signals all over the south,”
Say what? WLS–iiiin Chicago…great radio station in its day…the South received the same signals from the same places as the rest of America…
“he rural hated the city and in those days the city was white so it is not just a race thing, ”
That’s pretty much the case the world over…
“the country boys have always hated education.”
Really? And how do you arrive at that conclusion. My rural experience was quite the opposite,
“And the city guys thought the country boys were greasy thugs with single digit IQs.”
Only the elitist snobs…most of the city boys in the South went home weekends to those small town cradles that rocked them to spend time with their folks…
I’m sorry to sound so, well, cantankerous,, but I’m a proud product of that socio-economic cultural environment you seem to hold in such low esteem and I;m sorry if I don’t fit your comfortable stereotypes, but more than the personal, the idea that “folks out there” are out of touch with the mainstream of society is, well, ignorance of the highest level. I’ve had discussions of the role of Shylock with Bubba at the county line…was or was he not an anti-semitic depiction. Have you?
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
11:42 am
“getalife, It was not meant to be an obnoxious question”
alex – why don’t you posit a reasonable definition, and see if getalife agrees (since the definition seems much more important to you than to get).
Get Real
November 20th, 2012
11:43 am
You are stuck in losing rw talking points
No talking points, you just could never answered the original question
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
11:45 am
“Yeah, but they’ll trot Rubio out there and maybe pull Condi out of the wings and say “see, we told you we were inclusive…”
…and they’ll never understand why they STILL don’t get the votes of those whon Redneck calls, “those people.”
RF
November 20th, 2012
11:45 am
“but I’m a proud product of that socio-economic cultural environment you seem to hold in such low esteem”
Blows their minds to find out educated folks actually hail from the small hamlets of the great American countryside.
TaxPayer
November 20th, 2012
11:45 am
I suspect you wouldn’t know socialism from capitalism from anarchsim from schism from prism even if you were slapped upside the head by each of them in rapid succession.
I heard that same story back in bible school only it was the prelude to Moses and the printing of the word on slabs of granite. Of course it does wear one out in a hurry when slapping hordes of people with such weighty words.
josef
November 20th, 2012
11:47 am
BROSEPHUS
Will do!
FROG
Oh, did they ever!
Fly-On-The-Wall
November 20th, 2012
11:47 am
I wish one of the cons would provide some level of evidence that Paul Krugman’s economic recommendations would fail. And then compare Paul’s to the con’s economic recommendations.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
11:48 am
President Obama and Clinton chose the hard way to govern by focusing on the middle class and not just the wealthy.
The gop will stay the course to take the easy way out and govern for the wealthy only.
The gop will continue to lose.
Hope that clears it up for you not so bright cons.
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
11:49 am
I just saw on the FOX News site that, if I voted for President Obama, I was supposed to get “gifts”. Anyone know where I go to pick up my gift?
Thanks in advance.
alex
November 20th, 2012
11:49 am
No i did not read your post, , I have read your posts enough, no need to link..i have the arrogance to lecture YOU, why, I can’t believe it, someone has the ARROGANCE to lecture ME, HOW ARROGANT, it’s ME afterall,..Sheesh you are an imbecile. More responses: ouch, ouch, ouch,wow that was really mean, oh my the teacher is mad, ouch,,here comes the ruler, ouch…I’m aware of the ruler, ouch, ditto….
Anyway.. Interesting article in Time, Nov. 26th on investing: discussion with the 2 heads of PIMCO about taxes and growth, a little something for BOTH sides to chew on..These guys are pretty smart for us laymen. More taxes for the wealthy and the future ain’t so bright in any case. The last 40 years have been a boon, time to regress to the mean…OUCH!
TaxPayer
November 20th, 2012
11:50 am
And then compare Paul’s to the con’s economic recommendations.
No thanks. There’s really no need for the cons to present their Laffer Curve economic theory yet again.
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
11:50 am
“Do you want to start to address the deficit or not?
Absolutely….stop spending more than we have….until that is done we will not get anywhere. Socialism is a wonderful thing until you run out of other people’s money”
What, are the rich going to starve if we increse their taxes from 15% to 25%?
Which programs do you wnat to cut SIGNIFICANTLY? Do away with Medicaid and let the poor die? (or do you just “tax” the rest of us by having them seen in hospitals and have us insurance holders pay for it) Are you going to stop having wars without the means to pay for them (Iraq, Afganistan)? Are you going to repeal the Medicare Part D and severly cut back Medicare for the seniors since it is not funded? Are you going to default on our legally owed interest? Close all Federal Prisons? Even if you did away with EITC and all other “welfare” – such as SNAP, it would not make a dent in the deficit. The only other BIG, BIG item is defense spending. Gonna cut Department of Homeland Security? Or just cut the military down to bare bones? No one wants to pay more taxes, but they want their government services. It is about time we ALL ponied up the true amount of money we should be paying. And in my opinion, tht should include a minimum 5% income tax on the 47% who currently pay no tax (balanced of course with the removal of the special tax rate on “capital gains” – it need to go to the max).
getalife
November 20th, 2012
11:51 am
What was your question again?
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
11:51 am
@ stands for, lowering the age of medicare, really, you think who will pay for that, Mobility is good, to find jobs that exist where…Confiscate wealth on old farts, you are brilliant, why didn’t anyone else think of that, simply amazing incite…..Where’s the Nobel committee,
you left out education , that MIGHT help, mabye, just a little or we could give FREE marta cards to enhance mobility…
alex, I’m not sure how serious you were in this reply, but since you seemed interested:
1. a proposal was floated ever so briefly in 2009 to allow people between 55-64 to buy into Medicare. We could start with that and see how it worked. It would need some subsidy, but it’d likely be less expensive to the nation than funding these folks through private insurance as most do, currently.
2. I spoke of mobility in both the literal and figurative sense. If you have affordable heath insurance through single payer, employers aren’t stuck providing this benefit their workers, and employees are stuck working at crap jobs they don’t want but have to, because moving onward (or starting their OWN company) means losing that benefit.
3. the “confiscation” was mostly tongue in cheek. however, I think we’ve developed an unhealthy inflation-phobia and yes, I think it is mostly due to the 1%ers’ efforts to cling to their own accumulated wealth.
4. I did leave out education, since I think that’s well-trod ground. Overall though I think every state should provide what GA does in the way of subsidized education beyond k-12 (whether college or vocational), to good students. I’m not thrilled about financing them through lotteries, though.
TaxPayer
November 20th, 2012
11:51 am
Anyone know where I go to pick up my gift?
I suggest that you go straight to the source–Fox. Just tell them Rupert sent you.
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:51 am
weak radio signals all over the south,”
Say what? WLS–iiiin Chicago…great radio station in its day…the South received the same signals from the same places as the rest of America…
________
WSB was a clear chanel station, heard at night all over the country. So was WSM in Nashville and a station in New Orlearns.
There was a federal limit on stations that were allowed that status. They early ones did, but a limit to the number of those stations was imposed by the FCC.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
11:52 am
Anyone know where I go to pick up my gift?
For realz. Where my Obamaphone at?
jconservative
November 20th, 2012
11:52 am
I have never understood the attraction of Norquist to Republicans what with his close attachments to the Islamic movement in the US.
St Simons
November 20th, 2012
11:52 am
How long will these people will be in business?
as long as they can sell hate & fear.
I smell a Chapter 11 in about 5 weeks.
Jack ®
November 20th, 2012
11:52 am
The top rate will likely go back to 39.6%. That along with the Medicare surtax of 3.8% could put some taxpayers’ top rate at close to 43.4%. Also, Democrats want everyone to lose their special treatment on capital gains and qualified dividends. A number of tax payers will see their personal and itemized deductions disappear as well. All these tax increases may persuade our most productive citizens to think twice before investing in the economy and will cause an economic slow-down that will affect the very taxpayers the Democrats are trying to help. The wealthy among us know the old rule that capital goes where it’s welcome and stays where it’s treated well: And if it ain’t treated well in the USA, they’ll take it somewhere else.
DannyX
November 20th, 2012
11:53 am
“Anyone know where I go to pick up my gift?”
Did you fill out the order form? You need to do that first, then send it to the US Department of Gifts. You should have them in a couple of weeks.
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:54 am
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
11:50 am
____
I think he wants to cut all federal progams passed or enacted since 1932. Or make that since McKinley was shot and Teddy Roosevelt took office.
That to the right was the downfall of our republic. Everything that happenned since President McKinley.
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
11:55 am
Parting gifts for the neocons?
Karl Rove and Grover Norquist…
getalife
November 20th, 2012
11:55 am
There are no gifts unless you are wealthy.
Tax cuts, welfare and owning government with donations.
The deck is stacked but we are working to change that.
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:56 am
Jack ®
November 20th, 2012
11:52 am
____
History has proved you dead wrong on that. Our best growth occured when the top bracket was higher than forty per cent.
GT
November 20th, 2012
11:57 am
Oscar I actually went to college and met my first southern country boys. Great memories, not near as dumb as I was told. The college boys aren’t dictating the politics either place now day, most of the country I knew live in Buckhead now leaving South Georgia for greener glazing. Wonder why?
josef
November 20th, 2012
11:57 am
RF, OSCAR
I don’t know about y’all, but one of the reasons that I cling to my rural Southern roots so strongly is that when I’m back home with “my folks,” I don’t have to be a one-dimensional person judged by my curriculum vitae or bankbook. I can be ALL of who I am and owe no one an explanation. I can move from talking about wild boar across from Napoleon’s birthplace to the local hawgzilla hunt with no disjoint that I have to see them through different eyes, but as part and parcel of the same jawboning…
Mary Elizabeth
November 20th, 2012
11:57 am
josef
November 20th, 2012
11:27 am
“alex
Be careful. Sue Ellen’ll hike up her hoop skirts and challenge you to a mud wressle if you disagree with her too much”
=================================================
Josef, let me also be more blunt with you than I have in the past. You can consider these words that I wrote to Alex, also my assessment of you:
“IMO, you are an arrogant, pompous j*rk who has the gall to call others juvenile names and then assume you are educated. What arrogance and ignorance, you possess in combination, and without any self-awareness. I pity you.”
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
11:58 am
History has proved you dead wrong on that. Our best growth occured when the top bracket was higher than forty per cent.
correlation does not imply causation
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
11:58 am
“Did you fill out the order form? You need to do that first, then send it to the US Department of Gifts. You should have them in a couple of weeks.”
Da,m! I’ll go back to the FOX website, and see if I can find a link to the order form. Thanks!
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:59 am
correlation does not imply causation
_____
Never said it did.
RF
November 20th, 2012
11:59 am
And don’t forget folks, the socialist president did, in fact, meet with 12 big CEOs in advance of the fiscal cliff talks with Congress. David Cote, CEO of Honeywell International said the meeting between Obama and CEOs “actually went very well. He recognizes that we’re one big debt deal away from the potential of having a terrific recovery…”
Even the CEO of Wal-Mart was positive about the meeting. Shoot, you’d think the president actually respected capitalism or something…
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
11:59 am
Jack, hello?!
Uncle Mitty has been hiding his zillions in the Cayman Islands for years.
Why do you think he wouldn’t cough up twelve years of tax returns like his dad did?
The new Republican patriotism – try to drown Uncle Sam in a bathtub, hide your welfare-for-the-rich windfall overseas and tell everybody you know that America and her people suck…
A proven winning strategy for 2016!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
12:00 pm
alex — “No i did not read your post, , I have read your posts enough, no need to link..i have the arrogance to lecture YOU, why, I can’t believe it, someone has the ARROGANCE to lecture ME, HOW ARROGANT, it’s ME afterall,..Sheesh you are an imbecile.”
You know, alex, I thought something similar about *you* yesterday during our discussion of FNMA and FHLMC, but I had the good grace not to post it.
alex
November 20th, 2012
12:01 pm
@ reginad, why is this soo difficult, I don’t know and I’m not making any statements about the mythical middle class, not a hard question if your bringing up the subject.For your gift you may have a book any book.. you are welcome
@getalife, if the gop continues you are right as for ignorant con, love to discuss absolutely ANYTHING on an intellectual level with you , be forwarned it could get a bit dense, but go for it….r
Krugman on economic policies: Krugman has much more knowledge than any of US, it’s when he gets to reading the minds of the Repubs that we question. This becomes political opinion and he suffers when he steps on that limb. other than that he is one eccentric dude, but so are a lot of my friends, keeps the conversation lively..
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
12:01 pm
Never said it did.
sure about that?
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
12:01 pm
That along with the Medicare surtax of 3.8%
I know it’s nitpicky, but isn’t that actually 2.9% (i.e. 1.45% x 2)?
Get Real
November 20th, 2012
12:02 pm
What, are the rich going to starve if we increse their taxes from 15% to 25%?
You need to separate capital gains from income tax, 2 entirely different things…
getalife
November 20th, 2012
12:02 pm
Joe,
Agreed.
cons pretend to be smarter than other Americans but they are not.
We will call this intelllectualbation.
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
12:03 pm
Oscar I actually went to college and met my first southern country boys. Great memories, not near as dumb as I was told. The college boys aren’t dictating the politics either place now day, most of the country I knew live in Buckhead now leaving South Georgia for greener glazing. Wonder why
________
Sounds like a rhetorical question. I will leave it alone.
Time to go now.
Everyone have a good day.
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
12:03 pm
“correlation does not imply causation”
“The fight is not always to the strong, nor the race to the swift, but that’s the way to bet.” – Thomas Jefferson
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
12:03 pm
All these tax increases may persuade our most productive citizens to think twice before investing in the economy and will cause an economic slow-down that will affect the very taxpayers the Democrats are trying to help.
I seriously doubt that anybody who’s remotely interested in making money will turn tail and quit investing because of 3%-6% more in taxes. I’d love to see the person who’s gonna turn down millions of dollars in earned income because they may have to pay a little extra in taxes.
Greed always wins.
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:03 pm
“when I’m back home with “my folks,” I don’t have to be a one-dimensional person judged by my curriculum vitae or bankbook.”
josef: so right indeed! I generally find the hometown folks to be much easier to talk to and actually debate with. The fact that most of them don’t have much of a bankbook helps- they know what a self-made man really looks like.
As a sidenote, the little town I hail from is so small they took the stoplight at the crossroads out because the younguns kept shooting it out with bb guns and the like when they got into too much of the homemade spirits. That and there wasn’t enough traffic to need it and still isn’t.
Mary Elizabeth
November 20th, 2012
12:05 pm
ALEX, your post at 11:49 am makes all of my points, regarding you, for me.
I am totally done with you.
St Simons
November 20th, 2012
12:05 pm
The brown dude is still president.
The ACA is the law of this Great Land.
OBL is dead.
Little Nero w/a Cowboy Hat is still famous, like forever.
The People realize that its not gonna trickle down
3 BILLION dollars can’t buy you an election with that failed ideology.
Looks like you picked a bad century to be a con.
josef
November 20th, 2012
12:06 pm
OSCAR
WCCP in Houston…Mississippi’s pi-o-o-oneer 50,000 wat voice!
Kinda bizarre it was picking it up in Illinois!
GT
I live in Buckhead, Greener pastures? At the time I moved here, economically, yes. For much of my work, the city was the workshop at the time. Since internet, not so much. I can and will soon go back to my rural roots, my dream home of a tar-paper shotgun with a tin roof on the bayou. Why Buckhead? Central location and a neighborhood where I feel comfortable in the urban environment.
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
12:06 pm
I seriously doubt that anybody who’s remotely interested in making money will turn tail and quit investing because of 3%-6% more in taxes.
Bro, damn near verbatim from the lips of someone who knows a thing or two on the matter, Warren Buffett.
And how ironic that the GOP has finally wisened (is that a real word?) up to his suggestions…
curious
November 20th, 2012
12:07 pm
“Anyone know where I go to pick up my gift?”
Sucker, the Republicans have already gotten them.
They didn’t mind lying about voting for Obama.
MadMax
November 20th, 2012
12:07 pm
As the chart above demonstrates, those numbers are down significantly from four years ago, when 62 percent of Americans had faith that Republicans were interested in compromise.
and
As the chart above demonstrates, those numbers are down significantly from four years ago, when 80 percent of Americans had faith that Obama was interested in compromise.
It is even a steeper drop, albeit slightly, for BO.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
12:07 pm
you picked a bad century to be a con.
…and this time, the hurtin’, won’t heal?
southpaw
November 20th, 2012
12:07 pm
Fly-On-The-Wall @11:47
Walt Williams called out Paul Krugman for praising the economic activity caused by the September 11 terrorist attacks.
http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/wackonomics.html
BTW, Williams’ recommendation is “don’t fly more planes into more buildings.” I’m not sure what Krugman’s recommendation would be.
TaxPayer
November 20th, 2012
12:07 pm
correlation does not imply causation
But unlike Republican faith-based claims, correlation is a necessary step.
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
12:09 pm
Maryland and Rutgers are going to the Big 10????
Both universities have impressive academic credentials, but in terms of football…………………….. oy…
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:09 pm
“All these tax increases may persuade our most productive citizens to think twice before investing in the economy”
Even a huge recession didn’t slow that down much. Increased regulation of Wall St. hasn’t led to a collapse of markets. In spite of it all, there’s money to invest and much to be made in this country and a few more points in tax rates, while not even touching loopholes, isn’t going to dampen enthusiasm in investing.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
12:10 pm
Our problems are easily solvable but politics got in the way.
After this election, politics is not in the way so lets get it done.
Now is the time to solve problems.
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:10 pm
“…and this time, the hurtin’, won’t heal?”
“you picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille….”
josef
November 20th, 2012
12:11 pm
SUE ELLEN
Wheee, doggies, mo mud wresslin on the Ole Liberal Plantation…and, L-rd G-d, why would I ever consider you didn’t “pity” me, it’s the bread and butter of the pious supercilious holier than thou…
southpaw
November 20th, 2012
12:11 pm
Brosephus @12:03
Meet James Ross. If he makes millions more, he apparently will have to pay more millions in taxes than the millions he makes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/business/at-102-his-tax-rate-takes-the-cake-common-sense.html?pagewanted=all
St Simons
November 20th, 2012
12:11 pm
well i was goin for the ‘Airplane’ reference, but i like yours better, sfd
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
RF, with four hungry Grovers and a Karl in the fields.
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
JamVet
That’s just common sense. As for leaving the US for parts unknown, where else will any capitalist get to live in as comfortable a spot with laws as agreeable to them as the United States? That whole notion of leaving the US is mostly baloney. They may put their money in the Caymans or something, but there are not many places where people can live as free as the US.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
12:13 pm
I’d like to starve Mr. Norquist down to the size where *he* could be “drowned in a bathtub.”
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:13 pm
“Now is the time to solve problems.”
And while it seems congressional leaders recognize that, there are still quite a few roadblocks in the way. How do they get the TP folks elected in the midterms to agree? I also think as the GOP tries to rebrand, there are still a LOT of uber-conservative state governors and legislatures that will be difficult to deal with and who will make a lot of noise and trouble for the DC crowd. It’s going to take a while to bring this ship back to a reasonable course…first they gotta raise it from the bottom of the political ocean.
MadMax
November 20th, 2012
12:14 pm
Oscar
November 20th, 2012
11:56 am
And that occurred with a million different ways to hide your income. The basic rule then was invest your money or I’ll confiscate it so we had all kinds of shelters for oil and gas, real estate, etc. So yes the tax rate was higher but only a fool was paying them.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
12:15 pm
Brosephus — “That’s just common sense. As for leaving the US for parts unknown, where else will any capitalist get to live in as comfortable a spot with laws as agreeable to them as the United States? That whole notion of leaving the US is mostly baloney. They may put their money in the Caymans or something, but there are not many places where people can live as free as the US.”
I like the part where either they have to continue to pay US taxes or else renounce their citizenship entirely and get slammed with the Expat Tax on ALL their assets, all at once.
Plus I really dig the part about renunciants being subject to an automatic bar to re-entry of the US at ANY TIME in the future.
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:15 pm
“RF, with four hungry Grovers and a Karl in the fields”
Them Grovers need to head on over to the Christie household. Looks like they’re still eatin’ really good over there,
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
12:16 pm
RF, to your point,
There is more success to be had today than there was yesterday. And more tomorrow than today.
This is the basic premise of successful people and organizations.
The Romney crowd predicting the end of America are just playing a foolish child’s game of blame and unaccountability for THEIR current condition.
Even in the darkest hours (and there were plenty) during Bush’s Reign of Error, I NEVER went gave up on this country or her people.
We have been through MUCH worse and I refuse to be a whiner who cries out…
Keep Hopelessness Alive.
Mary Elizabeth
November 20th, 2012
12:17 pm
And, JOSEF, I am also totally done with you, because your posts to me have been nothing but personal negatives about me for months. Live with yourself in that regard. And, I have no doubt that you will be able to do so, quite easily.
Welcome to the Occupation
November 20th, 2012
12:17 pm
Ben Shockley: “Funny how the self-professed “thinking people” (i.e. liberals) are the ones who turn all their thinking over to government”
And by repeating that lie, that only ‘liberals’ (whatever that is) depend on government for their thinking and other needs, you show your colors, the total shallowness of your thinking. The notion that only ‘liberals’ depend on government is a ludicrous joke.
No group – absolutely none – depends on government more than the white elite (liberal AND conservative) and the notion that it is otherwise is a lie put out to stir up rubes.
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 20th, 2012
12:17 pm
Josef
You’re a country boy, that’s why you don’t know shyte about economics LOL
Sorry. You left yourself open for that
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:17 pm
@Joe 12:13- he’d just raise back up as a zombie and then we’d have real trouble!
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
12:18 pm
southpaw
Read the entire link…
I was deluged with submissions, including many people who pay a higher rate than I do. But at 102 percent, Mr. Ross was in a category of his own.
That doesn’t mean Mr. Ross pays more in taxes than he earns. His total tax as a percentage of his adjusted gross income was 20 percent, which is much lower than mine.
Now, how many people who work and earn wages as opposed to living off of earned income and such can take advantage of deductions of that magnitude? When you decide that you want to make millions, then you should also want the responsibilities that come with it.
That’s why I don’t begrudge or envy anybody who earns millions. I’m comfortable enough in my 5 figure income life that I don’t need any additional burdens on me. Life doesn’t appear to be fun when you’re spending more time worrying about possibly losing your money as opposed to just living life to the fullest.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
12:19 pm
RIP gop.
America is not dead but the gop are dead.
They should disband again.
Do something good for the people for a change.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
12:19 pm
RF — “@Joe 12:13- he’d just raise back up as a zombie and then we’d have real trouble!”
KILL IT
KILLITKILLITKILLIT
KILL IT WITH FIRE
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
12:21 pm
Plus I really dig the part about renunciants being subject to an automatic bar to re-entry of the US at ANY TIME in the future.
Keepin’ Brosephus employed….
Mick
November 20th, 2012
12:21 pm
mary elizabeth
Being here can be a lot like those immature middle schoolers; some are very witty and intelligent but many are ignorant one trick ponies. It’s very easy to read who’s who…
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:21 pm
@Jam: 12:16- I’m with you! I always thought we could do better, no matter how bad the news. I marvel at how many buy into the gloom and doom philosophy no matter what the facts show. The prosperous continue to prosper, even after a huge recession that sent the middle-class into a tailspin. And they will either continue to prosper or lose it and someone else will make money off their losses and move on up to the top.
alex
November 20th, 2012
12:22 pm
you know joe, I reviewed what you said yesterday and you points had real merit, I thought and the intial lack of standards from the private investment firms which were then taken up by Fannie mae is true to my reading also. Point I learned and happy to do so. As for my response , I hope you got the sarcasm, I hope that the ME was read to reflect Mary, if not, it does sound as if I am a true jerk which opens up a whole can of worms. No, I do not mind being challenged at all, but i do require and hope that the opinion has at least some basis in fact or can be supported by sonmething other than Fox or Msnbc or drudge or any other of the widely read crap out there. There is most definitely differing opinion as to the culpability of Fannie Mae in the mortgage crisis, but your insight did adjust my perceptions and for that , thanks, but keep the edge,…I’m checking on what you write ,as I would hope that you do for me!…..
josef
November 20th, 2012
12:23 pm
No doubt the leave it faction will, like the leave it faction from the South a few decades past, come back in a few years to tell everybody who stayed what a bad job they did of it…
********
BTW, who all caught the Ken Burns’ one on the Dust Bowl? Gives you something to think about…
RF
November 20th, 2012
12:24 pm
Joe: it’s like that Scylla monster Odysseus had to get past. You cut off one head and two grow back (been teaching that this semester so it came to mind…). Get Grover out of the limelight and there’ll just be another one working his way up from the cesspool. It’s like roaches- the one you see and step on is only one of probably hundreds waiting under the fridge and in the walls…
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
12:26 pm
BTW, who all caught the Ken Burns’ one on the Dust Bowl?
Saw some of the first half. I’d read The Worst Hard Time, a few years back, so little of it was news to me, but still an excellent docu.