Time to end Norquist’s death grip on tax policy
Mitt Romney lost big on election night and has continued to take a beating from his fellow Republicans ever since. The lack of affection toward Romney is no surprise, but the post-election response has also revealed an absence of basic respect for the man among conservatives. It is hard to recall a candidate so thoroughly and quickly repudiated by those who just a few days earlier were touting him for the most important job on the planet.
Karl Rove, who wasn’t even on the ballot, has also lost big in the days since the election, suffering a hit to his reputation from which he may never fully recover. However, the biggest off-ballot loser of the season may turn out to be Grover Norquist, the one-man keeper of the GOP’s no-tax-hike-ever-ever-ever-under-any-circumstances-whatsoever pledge.
I must say, it couldn’t happen to a nicer, more deserving guy.
As Dana Milbanks reports, Norquist continues to put on a game front. Just this week, Norquist told a gathering at a Washington think tank that “he sees no chance of Republicans going squishy” and allowing tax hikes to pass as part of a budget compromise.
“The Rs are holding,” he announced at a luncheon Monday of the Center for the National Interest.
“The fantasy is that the Republicans would cave on marginal tax rates — they’re non-negotiable,” he added.
In fact, Norquist maintained, if you think there’s any erosion of support for his Pledge, which forbids any net increase in taxes, Norquist would like you to know something. “You’re mistaken,” he said. “The entire Republican leadership has been elected on that commitment in the House and the Senate.”
I think Norquist is wrong, and that he knows he’s wrong. Most of the signals coming out of Washington suggest that in the end, the final budget deal will include a higher marginal tax rate on the wealthiest of Americans. If that happens, if the Norquist pledge is broken en masse, as seems likely, his bizarre source of political power disappears as well.
That said, a lot of Americans have yet to be convinced of the GOP’s willingness and ability to compromise. According to a new Gallup poll, 65 percent of Americans believe that President Obama will make a sincere effort to reach bipartisan compromise. Only 48 percent say the same about congressional Republicans. Among independents, only 43 percent believe Republicans are sincerely willing to compromise.
As the chart above demonstrates, those numbers are down significantly from four years ago, when 62 percent of Americans had faith that Republicans were interested in compromise. Somebody out there has been paying attention, which gives Obama and the Democrats considerably more leeway in the negotiations ahead.
– Jay Bookman
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620 comments Add your comment
Paul
November 20th, 2012
10:15 am
Redcoat
You are obviously new here and are unaware of Ben’s history.
The “LMAO” was a little play on his posts – how he regularly ends them.
The ‘nothing of substance’ was also a play on Ben’s posts.
But as has been discussed in the past, I think the ‘craves attention, any attention” thought does have merit.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:15 am
Lokks like Jay painted himself into a corner. He’s on the phone right now with Debbie Wasserman Schultz trying to find out what caused the recession if it wasn’t the Bush tax cuts and deficits.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
10:15 am
It was a well intentioned plan, but there has got to be a better way to help the working poor.
here ya go.
1. A significantly higher minimum wage, guaranteed affordable health insurance, and vastly improved transit infrastructure so, taken together, these folks will have more literal and figurative mobility.
2. LOWERING the age where you qualify for SS and Medicare so that more young folks have job opportunities as the older folks bow out a bit sooner than they otherwise would.
3. Confiscate some of the old farts’ accumulated wealth the old-fashioned way–allow for some modest inflation to occur as we incur a bit more overall debt to pay for 1) and 2) without having a collective nation-wide crap-fit.
josef
November 20th, 2012
10:16 am
jewcowboy
That Cameron one pretty much SHOULD sum it up…and I do think that most thinking conservatives would agree. While I am a self-defined left wing radical, mine and Unmentionable’s relationship is probably one of the most “conservative” you’ll ever run into. They are missing a golden opportunity. The same could be said for the Latino and Black communities, two of the more “conservative” populations in the country. Instead, though, those in control of what is supposed to be the conservative movement seem hell bent on alienating them at every turn. Instead of supporting measures that would support the marriage-home-family values, the current GOP goes directly against them at every turn…which is why I claim that the GOP is not the party of conservatives any more than the Democrats are the party of the liberals.
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
10:18 am
We as a country need to decide what things we wish government to supply to us and then tax ourselves accordingly to pay for them. I am not talking about one small group deciding for everyone, and I am not talking about the normal “let’s tax everyone else but me” syndrome.
There are some things I think the government need to supply – defense, minimum retirement, minimum healthcare – does ANYONE think we should let people DIE if they don’t have money?
I think that Social Security should be self-sustaining for the LONG haul – it has its own revenue stream. If we don’t want to increase the retirement age and we are living longer, we need to increase the amount of PERSONAL taxes that people pay. And don’t increase the maximum income level if you aren’t going to give the higher braket people more SS payments.
I think Medicare should also be self-sustaining (and it is a LONG way from it). It does NOT need to be subsidized by the regular budget. Medicare taxes need to go up on the INDIVIDUAL to cover the increased expenses. And whoever instituted the Medicare Part D for people who never paid into it are numbskulls. If you want it, you have to pay for it.
Take things like transportation (roads) out of the budget and use their revenue streams (gas tax) to determine their budget.
What you are left with has to be paid with mainly from income taxes. Of this, about 40% is Defense spending (ALL defens – Dept. of Homeland Security, DOD, wars, veterans benefits). Medicaid is 12%, interest (can’t change) is 17%. Where do we cut? Or do we increase our revenue to pay for what we want? ( I am fine with doing away with deductions to increase revenue to give cover to Republicans for their pledge – whatever works).
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:18 am
“Of course I bashed Bush’s deficits. ”
I guess I overlooked all the columns you wrote bashing Obama for same.
Liberals are so funny.
Paul
November 20th, 2012
10:18 am
Redcoat
““That is utter fabrication. First Ben makes up some nonsense, and then when called on it, he attempts to blame someone else for that nonsense.”
Why don’t you tell us YOUR theory of the recession Jay?”
See? When the structure of Ben’s posts is pointed out, he does not respond to it, Instead, he attempts to deflect onto the poster.
You’ll see the patterns emerge if you just look for them, Redcoat. They’re not unique to Ben. Quite common in today’s political discourse, actually.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 20th, 2012
10:18 am
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:09 am
Granny,
Not only did Romney pay all taxes he legally owed, there is no record of him ever receiving government handouts, and he has given tens of million to charity. His tax reords prove it.
Oh really? Seeing as how he never released a single complete tax return you got nothing to back that up
And you call him a moocher.
Yep, that 13% (but who really knows) tax rate is a pretty big “gift”
How much have you given to charity?
in dollars or hours?
Seriously….if you have nothing intelligent to say, please go away.
Seriously ditto dude
getalife
November 20th, 2012
10:19 am
The gop final analysis of the two thumpins is:
“Need better candidates”.
They will continue to lose.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:20 am
Paul,
The next substantive post you make will be the first.
Thanks for playing though.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
10:21 am
… as for item #3 @ 10.15, I wasn’t speaking of the vast majority of old farts, of course. However, given that the median age of the 20 richest Americans is 68 (the median age of all Americans is 37), it seemed a reasonable thing to post.
barking frog
November 20th, 2012
10:21 am
The majority of the voting public wanted Obama as President and a
Democratic Senate and a Republican House. That puts Democrats
leading with a limited budget. It has been that way for 2 years with
fairly good results. The stupidity of the American people may exist
only in the minds of the politicians
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
10:22 am
“trying to find out what caused the recession if it wasn’t the Bush tax cuts and deficits.”
I think most people would tell you that the recession was caused by the banking industry getting into bad loans and, with the housing market collapse, the failures spiraled out of control. I have not heard anyone say that deficit spending had anything to do with the recession. It COULD in the future – when we run out of natural borrowing capacity (i.e. – no one will loan any more to us).
alex
November 20th, 2012
10:22 am
@ stands for, lowering the age of medicare, really, you think who will pay for that, Mobility is good, to find jobs that exist where…Confiscate wealth on old farts, you are brilliant, why didn’t anyone else think of that, simply amazing incite…..Where’s the Nobel committee,
you left out education , that MIGHT help, mabye, just a little or we could give FREE marta cards to enhance mobility…
GT
November 20th, 2012
10:23 am
Why do the guys all look like perverts? Rush, Grover Norquist, Joe McCarthy, they all look like the kind of men you protect your children against. The guy who operates the crooked game at the traveling carnival. How do such nasty people get the ear of politicians?
This is the new world of the Republican; this is why they can’t put a candidate on a ballot for president that has any substance. Their new game, to rule by minority, is to find pockets of resistance, in the grass, political terrorist whose hate becomes so strong they just about forgot what they are mad about. This was an easy game for the segregationist of the south, 75% of the land in the south could not pick up national news, and the local radio stations were swamped with fire breathing preachers and funeral announcements. Forgotten people who never saw the larger picture, point of reference was the Civil War fought decades before not very current forward thinking people. The Republican Party is dying a very public death. The only thing that keeps the doors open is money, and the love of it by its masters. The will of free men is a beautiful thing; it will trump this Nixonist paranoia, already starting to. Pursuit of happiness of the majority not the minority is how it goes.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:23 am
Looks like the NY Times disagrees with you, Granny…
Romney Tax Returns Show 2-Year Income of $45 Million
By MICHAEL D. SHEAR, JEFF ZELENY and JIM RUTENBERG
Mitt Romney’s campaign released details of his federal tax returns on Tuesday morning, showing that he is likely to pay a total of $6.2 million in taxes on $45 million in income over the two tax years of 2010 and 2011. (View full returns here)
The details of the returns, confirmed by a senior campaign official, provide the most detailed view yet of his wealthy family’s finances. The disclosure comes after a barrage of pressure to release his returns — which Mr. Romney has never done, even when he was elected governor of Massachusetts.
The disclosure — reported early Tuesday by The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg News — showed a vast array of investments, from a recently closed Swiss bank account to holdings in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands, all underscoring the breadth and depth of his wealth, which has become a central issue in his bid for the Republican presidential nomination.
Mr. Romney said last week that his effective tax rate was “about 15 percent,” a figure lower than that of many affluent Americans. But his returns suggested that he paid an effective tax rate of nearly 14 percent.
In addition to his 2010 taxes, Mr. Romney is set to release estimates for his 2011 taxes, which he will file in April. The campaign will report that he will pay $3.2 million in taxes for 2011, for an effective tax rate of 15.4 percent. That is a slightly higher effective rate than he paid the year before, when he paid about $3 million to the Internal Revenue Service.
Mr. Romney, a Mormon, has long said that he had promised to give 10 percent of his income to his church. His tax return shows that over two years he and his wife, Ann, gave $7 million in charitable contributions, including $4.1 million to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
“I pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more,” Mr. Romney said during Monday night’s debate. “I don’t think you want someone as the candidate for president who pays more taxes than he owes.”
Mr. Romney also said that there were “no surprises” in his tax returns. Referring to the fact that nearly all of his income is taxed as capital gains at a 15 percent rate, rather than as earned income at rates of up to 35 percent, Mr. Romney questioned a proposal by Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker, to reduce capital gains taxes to zero.
“Under that plan, I’d have paid no taxes in the last two years,” Mr. Romney said.
The Romneys hold as much as a quarter of a billion dollars in assets, much of it derived from Mr. Romney’s time as founder and partner in Bain Capital, a private equity firm. And in federal financial disclosures Mr. Romney made when he began his presidential campaign he said those assets generated at least $9.6 million in income in 2010 and part of 2011, most of it from capital gains, dividends and interest on their investments.
Questions about Mr. Romney’s wealth have dogged him for weeks as his rivals for the Republican nomination assailed his tenure at Bain Capital and pressed for details about his taxes.
Mr. Romney hesitated repeatedly when asked whether he would release his tax returns, as his father had done when he was running for president several decades ago.
Initially, Mr. Romney said that he had no intention of releasing his tax returns, maintaining that the financial disclosure reports that all federal candidates must provide should suffice.
But the pressure grew stronger when Mr. Romney — apparently in an offhand, unplanned way — acknowledged that he pays about 15 percent in taxes, most of it on dividends and capital gains.
Following that statement, the pressure grew for Mr. Romney to release more information by making his tax returns public. Mr. Gingrich pressed him on the issue in two debates
Details about Mr. Romney’s tax payments, wealth and income will inevitably be compared with similar disclosures already made by Mr. Gingrich, as well the man Mr. Romney and Mr. Gingrich hope to unseat, President Obama.
Mr. Gingrich, who on Saturday won the Republican presidential primary in South Carolina, released his own tax returns last week showing that he and his wife, Callista, had an adjusted gross income of $3,162,424 from their various business ventures in 2010. They paid $994,708 in federal tax, according to the return, for an effective tax rate of 31.7 percent.
Mr. Obama and his wife, Michelle, released their tax returns in April, showing an adjusted gross income of $1,728,096 for 2010 — much of it from sales of his books “Dreams From My Father” and “The Audacity of Hope.” The Obamas paid $453,770 in federal taxes, for an effective tax rate of 26.3 percent.
During the debate, Mr. Romney had predicted that there would be little in his tax returns that would prove to be controversial.
“You’ll see my income, how much taxes I’ve paid, how much I’ve paid to charity,” Mr. Romney added in the debate. “You’ll see how complicated taxes can be. And will there be discussion? Sure. Will it be an article? Yeah. But is it entirely legal and fair? Absolutely. I’m proud of the fact that I pay a lot of taxes.”
DannyX
November 20th, 2012
10:24 am
“Need better candidates”.
What you mean Perry, Cain, Bachmann, Newt, Romney, and Santorum weren’t good candidates?
Oh, and Paul Ryan. He voted for all of that crazy Bush era spending then Republicans tried to get him promoted.
Paul
November 20th, 2012
10:24 am
Redcoat
See the pattern of avoiding what’s been said and instead reverting to a veiled (or not so veiled) insult, then a phrase of dismissal to seek to establish an air of superiority?
As I said, the patterns emerge if you just sit back, read and look for them.
Textbooks have been written regarding such patterns.
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
10:25 am
moochers???..
it has been posted and linked here before that if every tax is included..fed, state, sales, payroll, etc..we all pay @ 27% across the board from the super poor to the super rich…the proportions change but the net % is the same.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
10:25 am
( I am fine with doing away with deductions to increase revenue to give cover to Republicans for their pledge – whatever works).
In theory I am too. However, in practice, those “tax reform” efforts get whittled away very quickly. an increased tax rate is the sort of thing that lasts a good long time.
So why not go with the more effective solution, if possible?
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:25 am
Wow…Newt Gingrich paid 31.7% in taxes
nobodyyouknow
November 20th, 2012
10:25 am
Its so easy to see why Bortz, Lembaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, and many other millionaires don’t like O’bama. He’s gonna taxes their asses off. And most likely Bookman too. You gotta pay your “FAIR SHARE” folks.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:26 am
“His tax return shows that over two years he and his wife, Ann, gave $7 million in charitable contributions”
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 20th, 2012
10:26 am
Ben
Show us where the NYT tells you the returns are complete.
If not, see where you can find the truth.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
November 20th, 2012
10:26 am
I would just offer the Australian & German models of social democracy. Those 2 countries have the best system right now, healthiest banks, and the most opportunity for the avg person/family. We should not be arrogant ugly Americans right now. We should take the best ideas & use them.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 20th, 2012
10:27 am
The gop final analysis of the two thumpins is:
“Need better candidates”.
They will continue to lose.
Well, if you got a heart at all you got to feel sorry for the Republican Party. Not only did they get a ass-whooping in the last election but they also got to figure out how to cater to the people they hate, the illegals and Those People. That’s sort of like being made to kiss the switch that just raised welts on your butt.
And the worst part is, they got to please old Grover to keep from getting a primary opponent while pretending to do what people said they want, raising taxes on the rich.
It’s tough to be a Republican these days.
USMC
November 20th, 2012
10:27 am
Hi Josef!
Did I see you walking down my sidewalk on D_L_M__T yesterday on your way to school???
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
10:27 am
josef @ 10:16
Amen to the missed opportunity with Blacks and Latinos…
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:27 am
Wow Granny…Romney a moocher? Seriously?
southpaw
November 20th, 2012
10:27 am
KB @9:24
You can already use part or all of your refund to buy savings bonds, which help finance the country. That might not be what you had in mind, but the booklet of tax return instructions also has an address for the Bureau of the Public Debt, where people can make the contributions you suggest. Agree that the Presidential Election Campaign Fund should be removed. I can’t remember the last time I checked “yes” to that.
USMC
November 20th, 2012
10:27 am
I mean D_LM__T.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:28 am
“Ben
Show us where the NYT tells you the returns are complete.
If not, see where you can find the truth.”
Why sure Granny…did you miss the part where it said……
“View full returns here”
????????????????????????????????
mm
November 20th, 2012
10:28 am
“Why is it Moonbats don’t understand that lowering taxes increases commerce which increases revenue? Conversely, if taxes go up, commerce goes down and the smaller revenue increase is from the tax rates.”
With higher taxes under Clinton, 23 million jobs were created.
With lower taxes under Bush, there was a net jobs loss.
So your statement is pure BS.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
10:29 am
mitt is history and not worthy of a second thought.
grover is a lobbyist and nothing else.
The gop will continue to lose elections until they figure it out so don’t help them.
Let them keep on believing they are right when they are always dead wrong.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
10:29 am
Agree that the Presidential Election Campaign Fund should be removed. I can’t remember the last time I checked “yes” to that.
I really do not get why people don’t check that box every time. Is it because they prefer having elections funded by the plutocracy?
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:30 am
“With higher taxes under Clinton, 23 million jobs were created.
With lower taxes under Bush, there was a net jobs loss.”
Your world view is not seriously that simple-minded, is it? Please tell us it is not.
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
10:30 am
EC @ 10:25
Those with an ideological talking point to push don’t quit simply because facts don’t agree with them. They run over facts like Jerome Bettis trying to score a touchdown.
Black Label
November 20th, 2012
10:30 am
USMC
What country did you grow up in? Socialism has been part of the US fabric for many years. We can debate the degree and extent but the existence is not a debatable point in terms of it being part of the fabric.
USMC
November 20th, 2012
10:30 am
“Why do the guys all look like perverts?”–GT
I guess it takes ONE to know ONE…
(never thought I would need that one after third grade, who knew.)
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:31 am
“I really do not get why people don’t check that box every time. Is it because they prefer having elections funded by the plutocracy?”
Government IS the plutocracy, dude…………………
USMC
November 20th, 2012
10:32 am
“What country did you grow up in? Socialism has been part of the US fabric for many years. We can debate the degree and extent but the existence is not a debatable point in terms of it being part of the fabric.”—Johnny Walker Black Label
-not intended to be a factual statement
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:32 am
““Why do the guys all look like perverts?”–GT”
As opposed to actually BEING perverts, like Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Andy Weiner, etc
Common Sense
November 20th, 2012
10:32 am
“Oh really? Seeing as how he never released a single complete tax return you got nothing to back that up”
You mean you have no faith in the IRS?
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:33 am
Granny got her facts a little confused. Go easy on her. Old age can be difficult.
Paul
November 20th, 2012
10:33 am
stands
“However, in practice, those “tax reform” efforts get whittled away very quickly. an increased tax rate is the sort of thing that lasts a good long time.”
That’s a key point. Republicans can hold fast on no marginal rate changes, agree to eliminate deductions…. then, over the course of time, quietly slip into bills changes that whittle away at those exemptions, thus taking us right back to where we are now.
Which is, I think, why Republicans were so adamant against top-tier marginal rate increases until it became obvious theirs was a minority view among the public.
I’m still chuckling over Bill Kristol’s remark of ” The Republican Party is going to fall on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires, half of whom voted Democratic and half of them live in Hollywood?” he said.
“It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” Kristol added. “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer.”
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-kristol-taxes-millionaires-republicans-obama-boehner-fiscal-cliff-2012-11#ixzz2CmGGix2Q
RF
November 20th, 2012
10:33 am
From the Krugman article ME posted a link to:
“And they’re not willing to participate in serious bipartisan discussions, either, because that might force them to explain their plan — and there isn’t any plan, except to regain power.”
That basically tells the story for me- the GOP doesn’t want to seriously discuss revenue increases or spending cuts, because they don’t want to risk the possibility of losing any popularity, especially now that they lost so much ground in the last election. How then will they handle the Norquist pledge and the reality that they are in a corner now on tax increases and are facing an automatic expiration date on the Bush tax cuts? I still think they’ll dodge and fuss and carry on until at least the end of January.
Common Sense
November 20th, 2012
10:33 am
“With lower taxes under Bush, there was a net jobs loss.””
There was a net job gain until the housing market imploded due to fraud and corruption courtesy of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the FHA.
That fact is always left out.
DannyX
November 20th, 2012
10:34 am
“Socialism has been part of the US fabric for many years.”
Goooooooooo Bulldogs, sic em, woof, woof, woof.
Redcoat
November 20th, 2012
10:35 am
DannyX …..Will Obama lead us to utopia? by cutting all those conservative socialist programs? Save the taxpayer some money since they are not necessary….right? You are right, big government is too big….I’m sure it’s going to really shrink up now?…..right?
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:35 am
Here’s a little more on Romney’s tax returns Granny. Since you’re so concerned and all…
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/21/romney-drops-his-tax-returns.html
USMC
November 20th, 2012
10:35 am
“What country did you grow up in?”
The NON-Socialist, United States of America… That one.
But hey, elections have consequences and my side lost, so I will adapt to the NEW Socialist agenda of the Democratic Party.
Trust me, I’ll be just fine. It’s the Nation as a whole and the future that concerns me.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
10:37 am
usmc,
Our military is socialism silly.
GT
November 20th, 2012
10:37 am
DannyX you keep running your boys. Reminds me of Tin Cup where the guy kept doing take overs until he lost the Open.
You guys keep saying you aren’t getting your message out, one billion dollars and you can’t get your message out? Kind of like your “its the economy stupid” maybe it is not message the people don’t like it you and all the perfume in the world with you under it is can’t hide the pigs you are.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:37 am
“•The Romney’s gave about $4 million to charity, or around 30% of their AGI. ”
I think Biden gave about $1,500 to charity.
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
10:38 am
When did Krugman become a median, mind reader, and palm reader?
southpaw
November 20th, 2012
10:39 am
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
10:29 am
Agree that the Presidential Election Campaign Fund should be removed. I can’t remember the last time I checked “yes” to that.
I really do not get why people don’t check that box every time. Is it because they prefer having elections funded by the plutocracy?
—————————————————-
I can only speak for myself, but I’d prefer my tax dollars to go toward other things–defense, debt reduction, etc. Funding an election is WWWAAAAAYYYYY down the list of priorites.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
10:39 am
The Bidens are not wealthy silly.
Mike
November 20th, 2012
10:39 am
republicans are irrelevant. They are stuck in an era which is over.
the cat
November 20th, 2012
10:39 am
Ben-did you miss this part from your linkie?
•The Romneys have a whole lot of accounts in the Caymans and elsewhere–I feel like I spent half an hour paging through form 8621s, which gave no information other than the fact that . . . they have a lot of accounts in the Caymans and elsewhere. Which we already knew.
Gawd, cons are so stoopid.
mm
November 20th, 2012
10:39 am
“Your world view is not seriously that simple-minded, is it? Please tell us it is not.”
Facts are to cons what kryptonite is to Superman.
Under the higher taxes, commerce increased and the deficit was reduced.
Under the lower taxes, commerce decreased and the deficit increased.
Paul
November 20th, 2012
10:39 am
getalife 10:37
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:39 am
The Romney campaign also dropped this letter from his accountant:
•PriceWaterhouseCoopers, providing a summary of his tax returns from 1990 to 2009: Each year during the period there were feeral and state icnome taxes owed.
•That is, there were no years during the period in which you did not owe both federal and state income taxes.
•PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP is not aware of any outstanding income tax amounts for the period owed tothe Internal Revenue Service or to any state tax authority.
•The lowest of any annual “effective federal personal income tax rate” for any year during the priod is 13.66%.
•As you requested, we computed each annual “effective federal personal income tax rate” as total taxes owed divided by adjusted gross income as shown on the federal income tax returns as prepared.
•The average of the annual “effective federal personal income tax rates” as computed based on the returns as prepared during the period is 20.20%
•The average of the annual “effective state personal income tax rates” as computed based on the returns as prepared during the period is 8.36%. “Effective state personal income tax rate” is computed as total state taxes reported as a deduction divided by adjusted gross income as shown on the federal income tax returns as prepared during the period.
•The average of the annual “Effective charitable deduction rates” as computed based on the returns as prepared during the period is 13.45%. ”Effective chartiable deduction rate” is computed as total charitable deductions divided by adjusted gross income as shown on the federal income tax returns as prepared during the period.
•Total federal income taxes owed, total state income taxes reported, and total donations deducted during the period represent 38.49% of your total adjusted gross income for the period.
“You can expect some talmudic readings of this by those who defended the idea that Harry Reid totally could have had an anonymous friend with secret knowledge about Mitt Romney’s tax returns, and you can’t prove otherwise! Ignore them. This is pretty definitive: For the past twenty years, Mitt Romney has paid income taxes at an effective rate at least as high as what he paid in 2010, and often much higher. He has had taxable income in every year. Harry Reid’s friend was either lying or gravely mistaken, and Harry Reid, who is himself rather plump in the wallet, should have known better than to repeat such nonsense without better sourcing.”
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
10:40 am
There was a net job gain until the housing market imploded due to fraud and corruption courtesy of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the FHA.
That fact is always left out.
I find it interesting at how deeply ingrained into our society is the mantra of “privatize rewards and socialize failures”. Anytime there is finger pointing at wrongdoing, the fingers rarely get pointed at private sector contributors. Wrongdoing is almost always the fault of the government agencies most involved. At the same time, any good that happens is never attributed to government but it’s always because of the private sector. No wonder we live in such a country where the government repeatedly bails out the private sector instead of letting them deal with their own f**k ups. And some people claim that we don’t like socialism here in America. Hell, our private sector thrives on it.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:40 am
“Ben-did you miss this part from your linkie?”
No.
Another episode of one-word answers to stupid liberal questions.
DannyX
November 20th, 2012
10:40 am
“As opposed to actually BEING perverts, like Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Andy Weiner, etc”
Nothing says pervert like Sen Vitter wearing a diaper while playing with a hooker. Of course playing tap-tap-tappity-tap in a public restroom trying to score a young stud like Sen Craig is pretty right up there. Maybe you prefer a hot Argentine babe like Gov Sanford, or a serial adulterer like Georgia Presidential primary winner Newt Gingrich…or…
Hey Sen Vitter….Huggies or Pampers????
the cat
November 20th, 2012
10:41 am
Word on the street is missus romney does not have ms, that was a ploy to gain the sympathy vote and gloss over the horse expenses. Karma will bite them in the azz for sure.
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
10:41 am
The Bidens are not wealthy silly.
They make less than $250k/yr?
josef
November 20th, 2012
10:41 am
GT
“75% of the land in the south could not pick up national news,”
Where do you get that figure? I could use the citation…
USMC
Nope, not yesterday…no school and I was home most of the day after being out elsewhere early morning…
BROSEPHUS
I just don’t get it…two demographics tailor made for conservatives…
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
10:41 am
“Why is it Moonbats don’t understand that lowering taxes increases commerce which increases revenue? Conversely, if taxes go up, commerce goes down and the smaller revenue increase is from the tax rates.”
And just how exactly does that happen? You lower taxes on the rich (that is what we are talking about, right) so they do what with the extra money? They invest it in the stock market so they can make MORE money (taxed at only 15%) and keep accumulating the money! Right? Rich people aren’t the ones spending their millions to “increase commerce”. It is a very tenuous link – one that has been disproven in actuality.
I more direct link would be to hand money out to the poor people – who will immediately spend it and create more economic activity.
But I dislike using tax policy to try to drive the economy – it is too uncertain. Why don’t we just tax ourselves the minimum need to balance the budget during bad times, and in good times pay down the national debt. Then when the bad times roll around again and unemployment is rampant, you can borrow to get yourself on your feet and then pay it off again. Sort of like a family having an “emergency credit card”.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:42 am
“The Bidens are not wealthy silly.”
According to Barack Obama they are. He’s going to raise their taxes.
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
10:42 am
Socialism has been part of the US fabric for many years.
Duh?!
OF COURSE, it has been!
But how in the hell would you expect our fake conservative semi-literates to grok this???
1) Public Schools
2) The Military
3) Police and Firefighters
4) The Highway System
5) The Federal Park System
6) Drinking water, street lights and other infrastructure
7) The US Postal Service
Among numerous other examples…
RF
November 20th, 2012
10:42 am
“As opposed to actually BEING perverts”
Larry Craig comes to mind (airport bathrooms….EWWWW!!), John Ensign, Mark Foley, Ahhhnold Schwarzenegger, Ed Schrock, and we can throw Newt in there too.
Need some more?
No Artficial Flavors
November 20th, 2012
10:42 am
I don’t trust anyone named Grover.
the cat
November 20th, 2012
10:42 am
Ben-do you ever respond to a question or ever prove your point?
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:43 am
“1) Public Schools
2) The Military
3) Police and Firefighters
4) The Highway System
5) The Federal Park System
6) Drinking water, street lights and other infrastructure
7) The US Postal Service
None of those are examples of socialism.
But thanks for playing.
DannyX
November 20th, 2012
10:44 am
“Need some more?”
Herman Cain. Michelle “Corndog” Bachmann?
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
10:44 am
josef
I just don’t get it…two demographics tailor made for conservatives…
completely agree…it makes no rational sense
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:44 am
“Ben-do you ever respond to a question or ever prove your point?”
Your inablity to comprehend facts and truth has no bearing on the veracity of my assertions.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:45 am
“Need some more?”
Sure. Barney Frank comes to mind.
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:45 am
Elliot Spitzer
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
Anybody seen Granny?
DannyX
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
“But thanks for playing.”
Speaking of playing, the socialist UGA will be playing the socialist Alabama in the socialist Georgia Dome in a couple of weeks.
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
josef
Maybe logic isn’t a strong point for some of the strategists. I think the disconnect comes in due to the idea that Blacks and Latinos personally know the struggles that many endure here. Even with more conservative ideals, the compassion extended to those who struggle outweighs the conservative leanings.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
Well, Ben you found a NYT error.
Good for you!
2010 taxes released without documents regarding off shore accounts.
Keep looking dude.
Redcoat
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
Paul……Do you think Ben is the only one that fits your description and observances?
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:46 am
Funny how Jay got too busy to give us his theory of what caused the recession.
I guess Debbie Wasserman Schults is tied up with Rachel Maddow right now.
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
10:47 am
republicans are irrelevant.
Not just yet, brother Mick. But we are helping this version of the GOP get there!
They are stuck in an era which is over.
Shhhhhhhhhhh! Don’t let them know!
LOL.
As always, brilliant analysis, Ben.
With your vast and proven intellectual prowess to dismantle and countermand opposing arguments with facts, data and evidence, you should run for the RNC Chair!
Get Real
November 20th, 2012
10:47 am
You gotta pay your “FAIR SHARE” folks.
What the F$%K does that mean, only goofballs make this statement
Ben Shockley
November 20th, 2012
10:48 am
Granny,
The Romney’spay millions in taxes every year, donate millions to charity, and have never received government handouts.
It’s your responsibility to back up your claim that they are “moochers.”
Good luck sweetie.
josef
November 20th, 2012
10:49 am
ERWIN’S
“When did Krugman become a median, mind reader, and palm reader?”
When he became and economist…it came with the chicken foot and gris-gris…
DannyX
November 20th, 2012
10:49 am
“The Romney’spay millions in taxes every year, donate millions to charity, and have never received government handouts.”
So glad Romneycare includes abortion coverage.
Jefferson
November 20th, 2012
10:50 am
Plan ahead time to pay for the great country we live in, rich parasites anny up.
USMC
November 20th, 2012
10:50 am
“Our military is socialism silly.”–Getalife
Getalife, the MILITARY is not a government…. and is NOT socialist. It’s a MILITARY.
Geaux Tigers! (and Dawgs!)
Jefferson
November 20th, 2012
10:51 am
What gov’t protects Romney’s vast wealth ? Think of it as insurance, if it help you sleep ? Protection cost 39%.
Lynnie Gal
November 20th, 2012
10:52 am
I think most people have had enough of the “moocher” talk from Republicans. It makes all of you look like idiots, Ben. It’s too bad that R’s think this is a persuasive strategy. Keep it up and all you R’s will have to crawl back under your hateful little rocks and live there for good. The fact is, R’s think everybody is trying to “mooch” off of them personally, even when it is actually R’s that are the moochers–old, angry white people living off of Medicare, SS and Medicaid yelling about how everybody but them are moochers. Really. Sickening. Best advice is, knock it off.
hiram
November 20th, 2012
10:52 am
How many names does Ben Shockley/ td/cc use? Ben Shockley, td and cc repeat the exact worn-out, unconnected Limbaugh/Fox talking points in a continuous loop, no matter what the topic.
It doesn’t require a forensic scientist to establish that they’re all one and the same person.
alex
November 20th, 2012
10:52 am
Krugman is having his time in the sun, his 15 minutes of fame, interesting fellow, obviously bright is trying to read the minds of republicans. If he would restrict his thoughts to economic analysis,one would have to take him seriously every time he opens his mouth now he is looking like a fool, but Mary Elizabeth will cintinue to praise him, I choose to praise Schumpeter, not because of his economic thoughts. He was simply a dandy with the ladies in Vienna and thumbed his nose at the conventional.
@ Paul, Kristol makes good points. Hopefully what motivates these repubs to resist this increase in taxes is the old concept of if I give something(more taxes),you give something (less give aways), a play school activity that our politicians have forgotten about. Let us both hope they will not listen to the extremes of both parties( always the loudest) and compromisee, Cheers…
the cat
November 20th, 2012
10:52 am
Poor Ben- so easy to poke sticks at eveything he posts.
Erwin's cat
November 20th, 2012
10:53 am
When he became and economist…it came with the chicken foot and gris-gris…
I admit his early work is very very good…. it’s when he stopped being an economist to be a political pundit I stopped paying attention to him
getalife
November 20th, 2012
10:53 am
Let the cons spew.
They never learn anything.
They are marginalized as kooks.
The permanent minority.
Let the adults govern.