On immigration, U.S. public leading its supposed ‘leaders’
In Georgia alone, more than 10,000 immigrants who were brought to this country illegally as children have applied for a temporary reprieve to protect them from deportation. That’s a significant number, especially when you consider that the program was only announced five months ago.
There are a couple of ways to think about numbers that large.
Those who believe that illegal immigrants are by definition criminals who pose a threat to this nation’s economic security, soveriegnty and even ethnic identity would find 10,000 an ominous number. The same would be true of the 300,000 that have applied so far nationwide. And of course, that 300,000 in turn represent just a small subset of the 12 million or so illegal immigrants now in the country.
But there’s another way to look at it as well. The 10,000 applicants from Georgia — all of them between the ages of 15 and 31 — are people who think of themselves as Americans, who have lived much of their lives in this country and who very much want to be Americans. Most speak excellent English. They are not here, as some stereotypes would have it, to live off the rest of us.
In fact, to even be eligible for the program, these children of illegal immigrants must have graduated from an American high school, have earned a GED or still be in school. And while qualifying under the federal program makes them eligible for a temporary permit to work in this country, it does not make them eligible for government benefits of any kind.
And again, some 10,000 such people have applied in Georgia alone.
I understand that many Americans who take the first point of view about illegal immigrants are unlikely to change their minds. But the question is, where does that perpective lead us? If we take that position as a country, what policy options flow from it? If we insist that those people be treated as criminals, our only options are to try to identify them and deport them by force — all 12 million of them.
As a practical matter, that simply isn’t going to happen. It would be far too expensive, far too time-consuming and far to disruptive to the communities in which those 12 million have made their home. And as a matter of morality, it shouldn’t happen. Because here’s the thing that is acknowledged too seldom in this debate:
The vast majority of those who entered this country illegally in the past 25 years were lured to make lives here under an immigration enforcement regime that was lax not by accident or incompetence, but by design. We did little to enforce our borders, and even less to patrol the workplace, because our leaders made a conscious choice that in a booming economy, we could look the other way and make good use of their labor.
We — as a nation — broke our own laws, out of our own sense of greed. To now turn around and try to boot these people out because they are no longer convenient for us is not the act of a great nation.
And the American people understand that fact. In the wake of the election, a lot of attention has been focused on how poorly Republican candidates did among Latino voters. But the American people as a whole are also eager ready to resolve this question. In exit polling, 65 percent of all voters said that illegal immigrants ought to be given the chance to become citizens. Only 28 percent said they should be deported.
The public, in other words, is far ahead of its supposed leadership on this issue.
– Jay Bookman
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488 comments Add your comment
williebkind
November 20th, 2012
2:51 pm
estoppel – A rule of evidence whereby a person is barred from denying the truth of a fact that has already been settled.
Wow that sounds like Ambassador Rice declaring its the video that caused the murders.
barking frog
November 20th, 2012
2:52 pm
stands for decibels
First People might cause us to carry too much guilt.
RF
November 20th, 2012
2:53 pm
Danny: we could just use the fence that N.C. pastor was talking about for the gays:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/pastor-delivers-anti-gay-rant-suggests-building-electric-142753831.html
That would probably hold ‘em for a while.
guy
November 20th, 2012
2:53 pm
Let’s just do away with all laws and let the hair go with the hide. We don’t enforce these immigration laws so forget them! Laws are made to be broken anyway.
josef
November 20th, 2012
2:53 pm
SFD
Funny you should ask! Unmentionable said when somebody asked him that, “my name ain’t Adam, and that one (me) sure ain’t Eve…”
The Canadian use of First Nations, though, gets a better response…
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
2:54 pm
“And fix the d**n borders”
As in “the Wall”? You don’t need a wall. If you make it impossible for illegals to work in this country, they won’t come. They come for the jobs – if you enforce our employment laws, they will stay in their home country.
For the ones already here, change the immigration laws so they can stay and legally work – IF they learn English, pass a background check, pay a fine, etc. Enforce those expired VISAs.
It is pretty simple once you get past the “Deport them all – WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND???”
Of course, you can’t do anything when half your party is crying for deportation, and the other half wants the illegals for cheap labor.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 20th, 2012
2:54 pm
In an interview on WABC radio, she said: “I am, you know, adamantly against illegal immigrants.”
“People have to stop employing illegal immigrants,” she said. “I mean, come up to Westchester, go to Suffolk and Nassau counties, stand on the street corners in Brooklyn or the Bronx. You’re going to see loads of people waiting to get picked up to go do yard work and construction work and domestic work.”
Hillary Clinton
Tundra Dude
November 20th, 2012
2:55 pm
JO
And the failure of the Germans to make a path to citizenship for their children has created a serious problem in German society today
Yup, same thing.
Personally, I hate All dem furriners….just get ‘em Out..Out!!
Oh, wait…I’m a dam furriner….
Correction: No More furriners, close the gates!
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
2:55 pm
First People might cause us to carry too much guilt.
hey, if *I* can heft the White Man’s Burden all these years, you can take responsibility for being the First. Fair’s fair.
Doggone/GA
November 20th, 2012
2:56 pm
“First People might cause us to carry too much guilt”
I’ve never heard that term used. I have heard “First Nation” used on shows that originate in Canada
DebbieDoRight - “When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.”
November 20th, 2012
2:57 pm
AqGirl: Magical sea border mermaids. Of course. We get them from the same place we get magical fence-building elves and magical E-verify dwarves.
Girlfriend, you need Jesus. AND some serious vodka!
Here’s my take on the immigration issue:
Too many times certain political opportunists are looking at the “brown” immigrant and screaming, “Illegal!!!” — yet they fail to see the “lighter shade of brown” ones.
There are tons of Russians, Czchecks, Greek and Chineese/Korean “illegals” in this country that are not put through the same distasteful gauntlet that the S. American and Mexican “illegal” goes through.
Its a travesty and distasteful. It’s time we lived up to the that Statue:
The statue, a gift to the United States from the people of France, is of a robed female figure representing Libertas, the Roman goddess of freedom, who bears a torch and a tabula ansata (a tablet evoking the law) upon which is inscribed the date of the American Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776. A broken chain lies at her feet. The statue is an icon of freedom and of the United States: a welcoming signal to immigrants arriving from abroad.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
2:57 pm
The Canadian use of First Nations, though, gets a better response…
…you’re right, “First Nations,” *that’s* what I’ve heard from Canuckistan.
I happen like the sound of that, and that’s actually what I meant.
josef
November 20th, 2012
2:57 pm
SCOUT
Have not read “1493″ Will put it on my list…thanks…and though it doesn’t deal with the subject in the same fashion, but have you ever read Mary Johnston’s “1492?” It’s available in on-line format if you have not…some very interesting perspectives there…
They BOTH suck
November 20th, 2012
2:58 pm
“So you are right, they do often pay taxes but not remotely paying their way..”
Think of the labor that they do that is usually below market rate which helps increase the profits of the business owner and keeps your price for the product or service at a lower rate as more than “remotely paying their way”.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 20th, 2012
2:59 pm
Immigration Gumballs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM1YU-Ni_84
alex
November 20th, 2012
2:59 pm
@ stands: I have some boxes that need moving tommarrow,please be there ON TIME…
Michael
November 20th, 2012
2:59 pm
Sharks come from the same breeding pool as lawyers, so my money would be on the Aquagirls.
More seriously, the pubs have been put on notice by the last election. There will be both republican and democrat proposals to fix this. The republicans know they have to start tearing down the fence between republican candidates and hispanics.
The fence already has a lot of holes. We need holes for the pipelines bringing Mexican oil, We need a door for the guys coming in to join the marines, and the drug dealers and weapons buyers are finding all kinds of ways under, around, and over the fences that exist.
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
2:59 pm
“since a (likely) majority…if high paid are 1099′ed or paid cash…”
You know, this is not limited to illegal aliens – good old Americans are paid this way every day. It is the IRS’s job to catch and prosecute them and the company hat pays them this way. The rules for independent contractor are very specific – you can’t tell them what time to be there, for example.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:00 pm
First nation people take my money and use it for socialism for their tribe.
I helped them build a hotel.
DebbieDoRight - “When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.”
November 20th, 2012
3:02 pm
Enforce those expired VISAs.
All these cries for enforcement, but not enough enforcers.
Congress wants to slash the federal jobs to half the size it is today.
I guess we can follow BAin’s example and outsource that job to India or China. Only problem is then we’d see a LOT more Indians and Chineese here than ever before…………
weetamoe
November 20th, 2012
3:03 pm
One of my best friends came here from China to attend grad school. She is now a citizen with a terrific job and heavy responsibilities. Because of her brilliant work she has contributed to this country more than most. She also has a great deal of freedom. Her parents, both retired academics from Chinese universities, live part of the time here in her home. They sometimes travel with her to help with the children who may attend school in China for part of the year and here in Georgia for another part. Her parents also spend time with another of their children in Canada. Not one single person so far has tried to convince her that old white guys consider her *the other,* or inferior, or someone to fear—well maybe the fear part works in some quarters.
They BOTH suck
November 20th, 2012
3:03 pm
Bush said his proposals, if enacted by Congress, would provide a more compassionate system for immigrants who now live in the shadows of U.S. society.
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“Decent, hard-working people will now be protected by labor laws with the right to change jobs, earn fair wages and enjoy the same working conditions that the law requires for American workers,” the president said.
josef
November 20th, 2012
3:04 pm
getalife
You and Richard Nixon…best friends the Noble Savage have known in America…
barking frog
November 20th, 2012
3:04 pm
stands for decibels
Probably so since the Cherokee are ‘the people’ sometimes said to be
the only people and to be a human being you can be adopted or marry
into the nation, I guess First People would be acceptable.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
3:04 pm
I have some boxes that need moving
de po’ white man can’t get a break, no suh!
DebbieDoRight - “When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.”
November 20th, 2012
3:04 pm
It is the IRS’s job to catch and prosecute them and the company hat pays them this way.
No can do. Congress wants to slash the federal jobs to half the size it is today.
I guess we can follow BAin’s example and outsource that job to India or China.
Only problem is when we do that, we’ll find a LOT of Indian and Chineese people who miraculously don’t have to pay any taxes…………….
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 20th, 2012
3:05 pm
Well, where does it end. Give 10,000 citizenship and another 20,000 will show up. After awhile these illegals will consider theirselfs just as good as the average stump-broke redneck that was born here. God must not of wanted these illegals to be U.S. citizens or else He would of arranged for them to be born here. So giving them citizenship goes against God too.
I know we got to be nicer to the illegals to get their vote in 2016. But let’s not start that now. I done some quick figuring and by my arithmetic we could give 2,000 GA rednecks a job hauling illegals across the border and dumping them. That’s counting about 5 people per pickup. Some GA rednecks buy the short-bed pickups and can’t haul as many—you wouldn’t want them riding in the cab—while others buy the long-beds and could haul 6 or 7.
Let’s put the redneck back in GA American. Who’s with me on this?
Fred ™
November 20th, 2012
3:05 pm
Stevie Ray
November 20th, 2012
2:51 pm
STANDS
The only ones who pay federal taxes are those who use phony SS#’s in order to get a bona fide paycheck…unfortunately they will never recover what they put in …since a (likely) majority…if high paid are 1099′ed or paid cash…
They of course pay sales taxes and where they own property they pay those taxes…all the above don’t amount to much in the way of paying their way..
So you are right, they do often pay taxes but not remotely paying their way..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not remotely paying their own way? How do you figure that? THEY don’t get tax breaks like I do. THEY don’t get to only pay 9% like I do. They MORE than pay their way.
you see Stevie, THAT is exactly the thing that pisses them off. Folks like you who acknowledge the fact that they are being exploited, paying exorbitant taxes and THEN turn around and say they aren’t paying their way.
How can you even write such a double sided post and not realize it?
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:08 pm
I wonder if the cons are the slaves in the future.
You should have treated minorities better cons.
Bad karma.
Fred ™
November 20th, 2012
3:09 pm
Just curious–How does “First People” work for yuz guys?
It would be a lie. They WEREN’T the first people. They killed the folks who MIGHT have been the “first people. They called those folks, “Those who came before.”
alex
November 20th, 2012
3:09 pm
@ debbie;yes and my parents needed a “sponsor” and a job before they were allowed to emigrate to the US in 1951, they came thru NY. If these were opportunist then this election should tell them just where the opportunity is……
@ jay, I would think that by applying for this program the illegal immigrant (parent) would be making themselves obvious to immigration officials..
weetamoe
November 20th, 2012
3:09 pm
It is quite possible that part of Hostess could be sold to the Bimbo baking company in Mexico. Since Mexico is not constrained by the sugar tariff as the US is, a Bimbo Twinkie would be less expensive to produce. The Hostess Company bakers could apply for jobs in Mexico. Wages would be lower, but so would living expenses.
David
November 20th, 2012
3:09 pm
The problem is what to do with the parents that brought them here “Illegally’ The law say they are to be deported, and blocked from reentry for at least 10 years.. What about stopping the boarder point where they came in at? in 1985 we were sold on this as a One time only thing, and No more… See were that got us.. the real number are probity 3 times of what the Government says.. 50% of all immigrants are on some form of government program, that is both the legal and illegal one, Hispanic immigrants are over 70%. and they wonder why people are against them here.. Here is what you do,
1) get a H2b work visa, 2) pay your taxes 3) don’t be a burden on the tax payers by not paying your hospital bills after you have your children. 4) learn to speak English.. this is just 4 easy steps to get people to soften there option on this issue..
DebbieDoRight - “When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.”
November 20th, 2012
3:11 pm
Sharks come from the same breeding pool as lawyers
Yes, but lawyers have the bigger……ummm…………dorsal fins………
barking frog
November 20th, 2012
3:13 pm
alex 3:09 it does seem that would happen…
alex
November 20th, 2012
3:13 pm
keep on “hefting”, yes suh!
@getalife, and it IS a nice hotel, thanks.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:14 pm
“learn to speak English.. ”
They have to use subtitles in English with some Americans.
barking frog
November 20th, 2012
3:14 pm
DebbieDo
it always comes down to the dorsal fin doesn’t it…..
williebkind
November 20th, 2012
3:15 pm
I want to unionize all the illegals and register them for the democratic party. If they cant read that is ok I will fill out their forms for them and show them who to vote for.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 20th, 2012
3:16 pm
josef:
No but I’ll check it out.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:16 pm
“@getalife, and it IS a nice hotel, thanks.”
It is nice.
They have the best restaurants in the area.
barking frog
November 20th, 2012
3:16 pm
weetamoe
Bimbo Baking…sounds like a beach resort…
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
3:17 pm
“So you are right, they do often pay taxes but not remotely paying their way..”
I keep hearing – Mexican Illegal aliens get out of paying income tax by claiming 12 deductions. Wait a minute, don’t you have to actually FILE a tax return? And on that tax return, don’t you have to list your dependents – and their SS numbers? I don’t think these illegals are changing jobs every year, so the IRS knows where they work if they don’t file. I think most file and pay their taxes just to stay under the radar. Easy to police (IF you have enough IRS staff). BTW, if we are losing millions of dollars in uncollected taxes because of a few thousand in savings on IRS staff, it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to help the budget to hire more staff… but I am just a dumb redneck, so what do I know.
barking frog
November 20th, 2012
3:17 pm
willie b kind
already done.
josef
November 20th, 2012
3:20 pm
SCOUT
Do. After you have, get back with me on the Jewish angle…
getalife
And you know what’s really funny about that? If you pay attention, you’ll find that their use of correct English grammar and syntax is often flawless…I’ve been taking notes on that one…
indigo
November 20th, 2012
3:21 pm
“illegal immigrants are by definition criminals”
If you are in America illegally you ARE breaking the law, and that is criminal. If you think it’s ok to obey some laws and ignore others, that is, or should be, incorrect thinking.
I don’t think those brought here as children should be deported. In fact, most of the illegals here, children and adults, will probably stay.
We need to immediately stop any more illegals from coming into our Country. We also need a politically independent commission to determine just which politicians looked the other way and allowed so many millions into America. Those guilty should be punished accordingly.
I’m sure the chances of this ever happening are the same as our Georgia politicians gaining a national reputation for honesty and integrity.
Jay, “we”, the people, are NOT responsible for the millions of illegals here. Big Business and their political toadies are. And, in this case, it’s both the Republicans and Democrats who are at fault. And, since there’s no one else to vote for, those of us yearning for ALL our laws to be enforced have been left with no representation.
Please distinguish between “we the people” and those greed driven moguls and politicians who got us into this mess.
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
3:22 pm
Got through the first page, and I got exactly what I expected.
————–
Grasshopper @ 1:42
And fix the d**n borders! Ridiculous that people can swim 25 yards, break laws and get no punishment except having to used as a political tool.
Do you honestly think that 11 to 12 million people (estimated undocumented population) have swam across a river or crossed a fence to get here? You need to study immigration laws and policies before you start to rant.
Do you realize that we give tourists with visas a 6 month time period to stay in the US and that time period can be extended for up to one year? What kind of tourist needs that amount of time in one country?
Also, read the 9/11 Commission report to see what changes they advocated in regards to immigration. We have checkpoints for people entering the country, but we don’t have any concrete system monitoring departures. That was a recommendation made by that committee that still hasn’t been implimented.
————–
Logical Dude @ 2:26
You’re swinging for the fence. When we don’t want to pay for or enact the necessary processes/procedures to make sure people are leaving like they’re supposed to, we may as well invite them to stay permanently.
Jay
November 20th, 2012
3:23 pm
” in 1985 we were sold on this as a One time only thing, and No more… See were that got us..
Yes, you were sold that. And who reneged on it? The biggest pushers AGAINST enforcement were Republican politicians such as Saxby Chambliss and Jack Kingston who raised holy hell with the then-INS for daring to conduct workplace raids. At the demand of employers, our government basically threw the gates open and welcomed these people here.
Now we want to look at them, point in horror and scream “LAWBREAKER!!!!”??
Sorry, I didn’t sign up for that.
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
3:25 pm
“If you think it’s ok to obey some laws and ignore others, that is, or should be, incorrect thinking.”
Do you obey the speed limit inside the perimeter, all the time?
Do you and your wife have oral sex?
Ther’s your sign…
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
3:25 pm
willie, is your ass still stinging from that big time spanking you got two weeks ago?
moonbat betty
November 20th, 2012
3:25 pm
The Socialist States of America would be a perfect place for the illegals to gain amnesty.
If we could just break off the Northeast and attach it to the West Coast…
FrankLeeDarling
November 20th, 2012
3:26 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpoFBlH4wMI
moonbat betty
November 20th, 2012
3:27 pm
Obama will be known as the “butt healer”.
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
3:28 pm
Our leaders keep saying: “we want to reduce the deficit by growing the economy”. HOW are you going to “grow the economy”? The only way would be to increase wages (not really happening), or to increase population. We are not having that many babies, so where does the increase in population come from? Immigration! Or you could choose to deport those 12 million workers who spend money every day and pay taxes and contribute to the economy. Shrink the economy!!
Counting Votes and Taking Names
November 20th, 2012
3:28 pm
I have a friend in Germany who has applied for a green card and has been on a waiting list since 2004. He has a college degree in accounting, speaks English better than some of us, and wants nothing more than to BE AN AMERICAN.
So sad that we open the borders to some and close it to others.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
3:29 pm
you ARE breaking the law, and that is criminal.
Got any unregistered programs on your PC?
Any mp3s that weren’t totally legit?
I’m sure you make every effort to maintain a speed that is below the limits posted on the roadways, too, yes?
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
3:29 pm
“If we could just break off the Northeast and attach it to the West Coast”
Apparently, you’ll have to throw in Florida, New mexico, and the Great Lakes/MidWest region…
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
3:29 pm
If you are in America illegally you ARE breaking the law, and that is criminal.
The act of being in the US without documentation is no more of a criminal act than jaywalking. It’s civil law that is being broken, not criminal.
josef
November 20th, 2012
3:29 pm
IMAM
@ 3:23
Yep.
Middle of the Road
@ 3:25
Yep.
BROSEPHUS
Yeah, but we talkin’ ’bout them Messicans…
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:29 pm
moonbat,
We know you cons want to collapse our country so you can break off and form conastan but it is not going to happen.
RF
November 20th, 2012
3:29 pm
“Now we want to look at them, point in horror and scream “LAWBREAKER!!!!”??
Nobody wants to admit that many companies grew their profit margins from the low wages they were able to pay the “illegals” they hired for next to nothing. They had a sweet deal not having to report wages or pay for benefits. Once they got a taste of that, they surely didn’t want the government actually enforcing immigration laws. And now that they’ve proven themselves to be against anything remotely resembling citizenship for the immigrants, they suddenly find themselves having to support immigration reform to try to court votes. I hate to think that any immigrant with a modicum of sense would ever trust the conservatives.
bman.
November 20th, 2012
3:30 pm
just wondering….since it takes several documents to get a drivers license these days, how are people who are here illegally able to pull it off?
Counting Votes and Taking Names
November 20th, 2012
3:30 pm
sfd
False equivalency.
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
3:32 pm
I have a friend in Germany who has applied for a green card and has been on a waiting list since 2004.
It all depends on who petitioned for her. If her petition was filed by a US citizen, then she moves up on the priority list. If her petition was filed by another green card holder, she goes down on the list.
alex
November 20th, 2012
3:32 pm
@ Jamvet,..spanking, the Air Force teach you that..MD 20/20 and a cat-o-nine-tail..up,up and away…
RF
November 20th, 2012
3:32 pm
“Obama will be known as the “butt healer”.”
Oh goodie- I need to find a new workout routine…my derriere’s just not as firm as it was in my 20’s…
middle of the road
November 20th, 2012
3:33 pm
“just wondering….since it takes several documents to get a drivers license these days, how are people who are here illegally able to pull it off?”
Either they don’t have driver’s licenses, or they have fake ones. (or I guess the documents they use to get a REAL driver’s license could be fake)
Counting Votes and Taking Names
November 20th, 2012
3:34 pm
Brosephus
He applied under the Diversity Visa program, prior to my having met him.
They BOTH suck
November 20th, 2012
3:34 pm
“Obama will be known as the ‘butt healer’.”
After that Electoral College that spanking Obama administered two weeks ago, he might need to be just that. Based on comments on this blog, the welts do not seem to be subsiding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6up076lSH8
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
3:34 pm
since it takes several documents to get a drivers license these days, how are people who are here illegally able to pull it off?
It all depends. If they come here legally, they simply get the license before their entry period expires. In addition, if they’re here on a student or work visa, they can apply for and legally obtain a valid social security number. If they don’t have status, then they usually don’t have a license.
In addition, some states will issue ID’s regardless of status, but the ID’s are not valid for driving.
josef
November 20th, 2012
3:35 pm
RF
“…my derriere’s just not as firm as it was in my 20’s…”
Well, at least you still got one…I’ve got a case of the gone-ass…that tea cup butt I used to have is just a memory…
RB from Gwinnett
November 20th, 2012
3:36 pm
I’d bet goog money before the next election, these illegals will be given the right to vote. Anybody want to bet?
Counting Votes and Taking Names
November 20th, 2012
3:36 pm
Yes, but living here and failing to file income tax returns IS a criminal offense.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
3:36 pm
MOTR — “I keep hearing – Mexican Illegal aliens get out of paying income tax by claiming 12 deductions.”
If you claim 10 or more deductions, expect to be audited or for the IRS to demand verification and validation.
If you can’t or won’t produce it, the IRS can and will *direct* your employer to enter a lesser number of deductions for you against your will. Plus, the IRS will *fine* your employer if they don’t comply.
JamVet
November 20th, 2012
3:37 pm
betty, why?
The GOP has already ceded away all of America’s largest engines of commerce and finance, as well as the great centers of culture and education as it is!
Conastan?
Too funny, get…
Even then they would secede from the northern cons and form the Confederate States of Conastan…
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:37 pm
You got your butt’s whooped twice cons.
Time for you to bow down for the President like you do the wealthy.
He is a millionaire.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
3:39 pm
Indigo — “If you are in America illegally you ARE breaking the law, and that is criminal.”
No, it’s not criminal. It’s an administrative violation only; the kind of thing that traffic court calls a “document offense.” From a legal standpoint, it’s like driving without your license or on expired tags.
Call ICE and ask them; they’ll tell you the same thing.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:39 pm
Even then they would secede from the northern cons and form the Confederate States of Conastan…”
Indeed, Yankee cons are not con enough .
DebbieDoRight - “When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.”
November 20th, 2012
3:39 pm
Hiya Frog!
Debbie it always comes down to the dorsal fin doesn’t it…..
Thats what they tell me!!
================
josef: If your lazy plantation loving, government teat sucking, non-speakee-zee-english, LIBERALS would only do as the cons SAY and not as they do…………..then NONE OF THIS would be a problem!!
===================================================
here’s some jokes and a curse: What do you call a white man married to a mexican woman? A white man with a taco
What do you call a white man married to a itallian woman? A white man with pasta
What do you call a white man married to an Indian (india) woman? A white man with a 7-11 store.
What do you call a white man married to a Chineese woman? A white man with an egg roll.
What do you call a white woman married to a black man? A wh###re
St Simons - aboriginal
November 20th, 2012
3:40 pm
well, all of those terms are fine with me (tho i don’t know what
in the hell fred’s talking about).
As josef can tell you, we would say “whatever makes you comfortable”
(well, most of us would)
Its the intent in the use of the terms that is much more important.
And this is a microcosm of the cons dismal problem with us/them
Let me illustrate –
Some douchebag poster was on here election night, & said –
“chief spreading bull won” or some childish crap like that. We would
know this was said with disrespect & ill intent and frustration of
getting his loud no-credibility ass handed to him.
This is a horrendously offensive insult.
a) you don’t talk this way to
leaders of ANY group anywhere, and in our group if you did you
would be taken out to the edge of the ‘village’ and placed facing away,
and be left there shunned forever, symbolism being ‘the only way for
you to go is away from here’
but most importantly
b) the insulter has NO right to name anyone ‘chief’
this is so haughty, arrogant, digustingly distasteful that there
are no words to describe this person at this point.
however if fred for instance said that, i would maybe giggle/blow it off
not to get into the woo-woo stuff, its whats in your heart
and we know those things. We’re spooky like dat mon.
This is true for immigrants too. They will remember you.
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
3:40 pm
Counting Votes
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if he applied for the Diversity Visa as a German, he’s likely to not get one. The whole purpose of the DV or Lottery Visa is to boost immigration numbers from countries that have very low number of legal immigrants coming to the US.
http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/MultiYearTableVII.pdf
There are usually only 55,000 visas available per year under that program. The PDF file there shows how they have been distributed between 1995-2010. The number for Germany, as most other European countries, are very low as they usually have family or jobs that petition for them.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 20th, 2012
3:40 pm
Border Control.
.
Another “wildly successful”
Federalie Government program.
.
Obamacare will be better, I’m sure.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
3:41 pm
sfd
False equivalency.
How so? there are penalties for pirating software, sharing mp3s, and speeding. If you’re engaging in these practices you, too, are an “illegal.”
Doesn’t sound so good when *you’re* reduced to that kinda terminology, does it?
moonbat betty
November 20th, 2012
3:41 pm
getalife, I refuse to be your slave.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
3:42 pm
C. Votes — “Yes, but living here and failing to file income tax returns IS a criminal offense.”
If you have a tax liability over and above your annual withholdings, yes. But even so, the IRS rarely prosecutes. They’d much rather you just come across with what you owe and save everyone the time and hassle of litigation.
You gotta be a tax scofflaw on the order of Wesley Snipes in order to actually do any jail time for something like that.
Counting Votes and Taking Names
November 20th, 2012
3:43 pm
Brosephus
I know that and so does he. And that’s the point. If each Mexican immigrant required an American sponsor, there would be parity in the system.
I am all for immigration and the intake of diverse cultures in the USA. I just hate to see the system abused by those whose proximity to our borders give them an unfair advantage.
josef
November 20th, 2012
3:44 pm
ZamVet
“Confederate States of Conastan”
The birthers might have a problem with that. The Confederacy did not require the President to be a native born citizen. Know why?
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:45 pm
“getalife, I refuse to be your slave.”
All you had to do is treat others better but bad karma is coming.
Counting Votes and Taking Names
November 20th, 2012
3:45 pm
JHS
I agree with you with respect to the pragmatic application of tax law; however, I would dare to say that many of our immigrants who have not arrived here with visa in hand also fail to file tax returns for their income.
moonbat betty
November 20th, 2012
3:45 pm
JamVet,
Same goes to you as well.
I will not be a slave to LA, San Francisco, Detroit and all the other rust belt cities…
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2012
3:45 pm
I’d bet goog money before the next election, these illegals will be given the right to vote. Anybody want to bet?
Don’t have any goog currency. Will Monopoly money do? I’ll throw in a Waterworks and the B&O.
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:46 pm
“The Confederacy did not require the President to be a native born citizen. Know why?”
No birthers?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 20th, 2012
3:47 pm
Yes, but living here and failing to file income tax returns IS a criminal offense.
Nope. The receipt of a specified amount of gross income generally determines
whether an income tax return must be filed. See United States v.
Middleton, 246 F.3d 825, 841 (6th Cir. 2001) (stating that the assertion
that the filing of an income tax return is “voluntary” is frivolous because
26 U.S.C. § 6012(a)(1)(A) requires that every individual who earns a
threshhold level of income must file a tax return.
alex
November 20th, 2012
3:47 pm
jamvet, getalife, regnad; repeat after me: the House of Representatives, the house of representatives, republican majority, republican majority……azz wooping. azz wooping….
getalife
November 20th, 2012
3:48 pm
alex,
The house is next to fall.
Butt whoopin III.
Regnad Kcin
November 20th, 2012
3:49 pm
alex – how many seats did the republicans pick up in the House, again?
Brosephus™
November 20th, 2012
3:50 pm
Counting Votes
If each Mexican immigrant required an American sponsor, there would be parity in the system.
Take a look at the link I posted. You won’t find Mexico on the DV list. Mexicans always have a sponsor, whether it’s a US citizen, legal resident, or employer. The only other way for them to get a green card is if they are granted asylum, and that route is not an easy route for Mexicans to take.
People think Mexicans have all kinds of advantages, but part of the reason I think they cross over illegally is because we don’t give them the same opportunities as other countries to immigrate here legally.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 20th, 2012
3:50 pm
gerrymandering, gerrymandering…..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 20th, 2012
3:50 pm
C. Votes — “I agree with you with respect to the pragmatic application of tax law; however, I would dare to say that many of our immigrants who have not arrived here with visa in hand also fail to file tax returns for their income.”
That’s probably true. Then again, if they’re having taxes withheld and aren’t filing a return, I think it’s reasonable to assume — given the wage levels we’re probably talking about — that the government’s coming out ahead on the transaction.
MadMax
November 20th, 2012
3:51 pm
Well if we do it, we can get shut down the border patrol and INS – that would be an immediate spending cut the dems can offer since they see no value in the operation. That would be a sign of real compromise instead of the fake “we’re going to reduce the rate of future growth” type cuts the pols always offer up. Only the Fed comes up with more creative ways to say they saved us trillions of dollars while running us over the fiscal cliff.