Why the rocket war in Gaza is particularly tragic

“This is futile war, war conducted solely because neither side has any idea of what other course to take”

well, Israel actually living by its agreements re: settlements would be a nice start.

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The silence of this president on the terrorizing of Gazans is absolutely disgusting. Barack Obama’s true colors come out – for anyone who still had any doubts. What a fraud. A Likudnik/Netanyahu puppet is basically what he is, just like his vice president.

Pathetic.

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This kind of war is “BP needs to make extra cash to pay it’s fines.” At the end of it all someone will come out ahead and it most likely will not be the 2 who are fighting.

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Remember back when US presidents at least felt constrained to pretend to be taking an objective, neutral position in this conflict?

I think George W. Bush’s team would have done a little better in at least forcing themselves to pay lip service to the humanity of the helpless people in the Gaza open-air prison than Barack Obama.

What is shows is yet again just how far to the right the entire US political spectrum has lurched in recent years.

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Anyone concerned about what is really behind the battle between Hamas and Israel should read
http://www.debka.com/article/22541/Iranian-arms-ship-carries-fresh-improved-Fajar-supplies-for-Gaza
Jay is wrong that Israel is using “far greater firepower” to target civilians since long range Iranian rockets are being smuggled into Gaza through Sinai and Iran controls Hamas. These rockets if launched from Gaza can wipe out the major population centers of Israel. I assume Jay would prefer Israel just sit back and take 600 rockets this year as a mere nuisance and not use its military power to defend its citizens.

What should be concerning the US is that there are over 1000 peace keeping US troops in the Sinai which is becoming a haven of terrorists who will aso use Iranian rockets to fire on Israel. Of course that would take some in depth reporting . Republicans should just keep pushing that line that the Black man in the White House better clean up another mess George “Neville Chamberlain” Bush created in Gaza. No different that London bombing after Chamberlain tried appeasement. Bush predicted that forcing Israel to turn over Gaza and kick out Israeli settlements would lead to a binding peace. Someone from England made the same speech in the 1930s after agreeing to give Hitler another country as appeasment.
You also see no reporting about how Israel continues to supply electricity, water and fuel to Gaza. I guess they should give them military arms and planes too so they have equal firepower.

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Senseless and heartbreaking.

I hate to think that our nation has any part in supporting this kind of senseless destruction.

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Michael: “WOC, you must be a teenager as this has been going on for over 50 years”

It’s been going on for a lot longer than just 50 yrs. \

Obama, like his VP, would not DARE even give the slightest hint of a defense of the Gazans for fear of being tarred as “soft” on Israel.

So, yes, Barack Obama is therefore in effect a puppet of Netanyahu and the right wing government of Israel, which includes the majority of the people there, too, as 90% support what he’s doing.

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After successfully getting the state to recount the votes in St. Lucie County in Florida, Allen West is now losing by an even wider margin than before – but he still won’t concede.

salon.com

What an idiot!

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I wonder if Syria needed a distraction, so they got Hamas to throw few stones at Israel. Now the spot light is not on Syria.

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It’s been going on for a lot longer than just 50 yrs.

Ok, 65 years. State of Israel was established in 1947.

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I expect that peace will never come until some sort of Multinational Force and Observer mission, akin to the one in the Sinai (or perhaps an extension of it), is developed and deployed in the borderlands and disputed territories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_and_Observers

I just don’t think that the Israelis and the Palestinians can work this out on their own.

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I’m thinking this was all just a ruse to test the Iron Dome defense system, which has shot down about a third of the rockets that Hamas has attempted to launch at Israel. And also to test Iran’s medium-range missles against it.

The human targets are merely pawns.

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Mick, perhaps their goal is to widen the war and hope that the other Arabs will join them and put Israel in a distinct military disadvantage.

@independent thinker: Hamas has exactly how many drones or F-15 jets, Come on man, yes they have rockets but Israel with the U.S. backing has tremendous “firepower”, Can’t remember the last time I saw a Hamas Tank……..

Netanyahu is prone to violence and Hamas is addicted to it, I don’t know if our President could be effective with either one of these “players”

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If you go around picking fights, sooner or later you will lose some skin.

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“Hamas not only wants Israel to disappear and all Jews dead, they want to draw the attention and ire of the world toward Israel no matter the cost in their own people’s lives”

no matter the cost in their own people’s lives???

I suggest you look at how Israel is treating the Palestinians. They have ghettoized them – no more, no less. They are treating Palestinians exactly as the Venetians and Germans and Russians have

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USinUK,

I had to look up “3rd rail” for context. Sadly, my congressman is one who accepts family vacations to Israel on their dime, and panders to the pro-rapture base by insisting we must stand by them. (Although he’s been less vocal about it this week. Hmmm…) Clearly, no one involed in that mess is interested in our opinion; as such, I think there are better uses for our money.

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“criticism of Israel – the new 3rd rail.”

And therein lies a real problem for helping get any kind of sustainable solution in place. At some point, we have to be able to criticize both sides if this is ever going to be solved. Israel seems to count on the unmitigated support of the U.S., and sooner or later that’s going to be a problem for us.

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JAY

I’m not sure if it’s a testiment to Israeli missle shield or not but Hamas has fired over 800 missles into Israel with deaths limited to 3…if nothing else, the Hamas is utterly overmatched…

I believe 50 years of evidence confirms the Zionist experiment has failed…we need stop enabling them to continue killing…inasmuch we are condoning such with weapons, planes and cash…

The Israelis got greedy with the land…the Palestinians have gotten screwed from the get go…

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“Martyrs”…..in mid-east language a facade where a bunch of loonies blow themselves up, kill others for the hell of it, etc. If Israel had been left alone to start with, there would not be settlement, etc. of territories taken in the six-day war. There is no peaceful solution, and now Egypt has elected a card-totin’ member of a terrorist organization. Screw 90% of the Arab world….what once was the “Cradle of Civilization” is now the cesspool of the world!

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Is there an election coming up?

Yep, early next year.

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USinUK,

I think you’re probably more familiar with the metaphor because you live where people actually avail themselves of the amazing practicality of trains. I still live in the land of “pc” defiance, where nothing is too offensive for our reps to support.

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SKIPPER

Disagree…the concept of suicide bombers came about from the fact that the Palestinians had no other effective weapons….

Don’t you find it of interest that our best friend in that region has no oil? Not sure what exactly are our other interests and why we see it is our job to deal with Iran, Israel, Syria, and the like…waste of cash, life, and other resources. The Zionists have kept the Palestinians down and in abject poverty for 60 years now…should this really continue?

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Matti: I never cease to be amazed at how much resistance there is to rail service in Georgia. We’ve got tracks and clearly enough people to justify it, but we never seem to be able to get anything useful planned. They start arguing over who will foot the bill for stations, etc. and the whole thing falls apart. I think there’s still a lot of “if we make it easier to get out, then all them black folks will move out to our safe enclaves” thinking in this state. Ironically, the counties that most vehemently denied Marta in the early 70’s (Gwinnett and Clayton to be precise) have certainly not been able to avoid population diversity…

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Let them kill each other off. We are drowning in debt and deficits, yet we still gravitate toward this self-perpetuating circus sideshow. Pay attention to the Cliff!! Sequestration is the way to go. Worry about our own problems. Stop wringing your hands over two ungrateful pissants who’d just assume kill Americans if they thought it would further their own agendas. Oh wait….they already have.

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S. Ray — “Don’t you find it of interest that our best friend in that region has no oil?”

I have read that during the Cold War, the Soviets looked upon that as both an inexplicable enigma and as a huge source of laughs. From what I’ve read, they couldn’t understand why we didn’t just ditch Israel and lash up with every oil-producing Middle Eastern and Maghreb nation that would let us in the front door.

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I’ll never understand the religious right wing – they don’t like Jews but love them some Israel.

Really? I don’t think it’s very complicated–there are generations, now, of right wing American “Christians” who’ve accepted a weird End-Timey biblical narrative, where real-McCoy Super-Jewy-Jews have to be in charge of Jerusalem so Teh Christ can come back and throw the unsaved (presumably the vast majority of Jews, included) into a fiery pit.

I guess I can see why some Likudnik types might cynically accept this sort of “support” from this sort of “Christian”, but it’s just as bleedin’ obvious as to why so many American Jews don’t.

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East Lake Ira

November 19th, 2012
9:46 am

I read that link…disgusting really…”let’s wipe them out..” mentality…speaks volumes..the Israelis will keep pushing and pushing until all the Arabs and Persians get similarly armed and try again to push Israel into the sea..

ALEX

Every country that has the means to broker that deal has failed…why should we expect anty difference…the result will be the same..cease fire for a period followed by more killing.

Seems to me that when both sides are targeting children and other innocents, it will be another few generations before anything remotely resembling assimilation is possible..

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RF,

I know what you mean. At least the PINK PIG is back! (Although it’s a Lenox now…) Haha!

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From the Jersualem Post op/ed. East Lake posted above:

“We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.”

Well, there’s a nice summary of what evidently some in Israel see as the goal here…I like the WWII references to the U.S. there also- twice in the op/ed. piece we’re brought up as an example. Nice way to justify flattening Gaza I suppose.

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“I think you’re probably more familiar with the metaphor because you live where people actually avail themselves of the amazing practicality of trains.”

social security is the third rail of american politics – Tip O’Neill coined that phrase and I am, sadly, old enough to remember what an amazing Speaker he was

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“At least the PINK PIG is back! ”

Matti, it’s never been the same since it left the bridge over Forsyth St. at the original Rich’s store. My dad worked there as an electrician and I used to get to go with him sometimes when he was doing final checks on wiring and such for the pig and the tree. He hasn’t been back in a store since they changed the name to Macy’s!

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Let us look at it this way. If Bermuda was lobbing rocket shells into Atlanta would you not want to retaliate? If Cuba was sending rockets into Miami would you not want to retaliate. Hamas is attempting to destroy the Israeli homeland.
On a lighter side, I met a female army officer, she said she was in logistics. Then she said that she had 50 men under her. I said that was good. I assumed she was alluding to, under her command. She was a truly healthy appearing officer.

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the war mongers always make their millions trillions

Hadda fix that typo, for the benefit of our Very Serious Debt/Deficit hawks here.

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@ RF and Matti, this city is so different from 1970,your arguement about racism is just that racist. Why we don’t use rail-I have no idea, stupidity probably trumps Race in this one. Took Marta to the GT game, perfect. Have taken many trains in europe-marvelous. I would love to have rail options as driving in this town is hideous. As for the Pink Pig, I miss the REAL one on the roof at downtown Rich’s , NOW those were the days……

@corbin I reread the trilogy a few years ago ,, about 30 years after reading it for a poly Sci class at Emory, Better the second time around…

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One of the reasons Jesus came to earth, I am told, is to get the full experience of being human. Seems people today want to skip that initiation to the human race and lead something they don’t have a feel for. I have come to the conclusion these politician we see lying so much don’t really know they are lying, they just don’t have a clue what the real world is going through, this world they want to lead so bad. They like these Rolex preachers have a calling, or that is what they think. Seems to me if God decided his son needed a little practical training among the multitudes these people that hear that calling would find starting at the top a little too convenient.

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ANOTHER UNFORESEEN TRAGEDY OF THE ROCKET WAR:
It gives namby-pamby Jay Bookman something else to whine about to the rest of us. Go find a clearing in the woods with a bunch of other wussy guys and beat on a drum and hug each other. The Middle East? Violence?! Militant Muslims who want to kill the rest of us? That is a SHOCK.

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Obviously the only good war is the war Republican’s like. Invade for oil……. All the rest can be considered a waste of time and energy.

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welcome

The cycle of death is not a solution; I’ve been to palestine and I wholeheartedly agree that they have been mistreated. However, more than half the israelis are sympathetic to their plight and firing rockets into israel is not a winning strategy. Since the killing on each side has accomplished nothing, where is the palestinian equivalent of ghandi? Stop the senseless killing and force israel to respect palestinian territory demands…

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U. Stonewall — “It gives namby-pamby Jay Bookman something else to whine about to the rest of us.”

If you don’t like it, there are plenty of other blogs to read. Or start your own.

“Go find a clearing in the woods with a bunch of other wussy guys and beat on a drum and hug each other.”

With a name like “Uncle Stonewall,” that reference to “wussy guys” hugging on each other takes on a whole new meaning that I don’t think you intended. (giggling)

“The Middle East? Violence?! Militant Muslims who want to kill the rest of us? That is a SHOCK.”

So what’s your solution? Wait — let me guess. Nuke ‘em till they glow? Bomb the Palestinian territories, pave them, paint lines on them and turn them into a parking lot?

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If settlements cause the conflict why don’t Palestinians attack the settlements ?
Is the Israeli government building the settlements ? Does the Israeli government
claim soverignty over the settlement land ? Palestinians refused to accept the
UN/British partition not the Israelis. The UN is all over the place, why not Gaza?

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alex

November 19th, 2012
10:12 am

Yet I want to recall that the croates and serbs were living peacefully amongst each other…neigbors, sharing schools and the like..am I misunderstanding this?

Soothsayer

November 19th, 2012
10:06 am

Spot on…why Israelis continue to deny this must have to do with wanting to push the envelope indefinitely….whining about how their people are under attack…gets old…I think they like to use it to justify the unjustifiable..

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Jay – Israel might have a military advantage with its air force and larger army and navy but what Iran is proving daily with its proxy war in Gaza and earlier war in Lebanon is that when the other side has unlimited rockets and now drones and the rockets get bigger and more accurate, the equation becomes more balanced. What if there are chemical weapons in those Hamas//.Iranian rockets?????? of course the narrative about Dresden left out Hitler’s use of v-2 rockets which did provoke our combined air forces and unlike your article legitimized the disparate response.

As long as CNN and other news reporters show wounded civilians on the other side (some of who are not even in Gaza that is a whole other story) the Palestinians and their Iranian backers have an advantage over Israel through the media. Why no pictures of dead and wounded Israeli children in the AJC?Or did they not count?

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Int he first 65 years of the US, we had fought two wars with England, a war with the Kingdom of Tripoli (Barbary pirates), multiple actions against pirates in the caribbean, Greece, and Gulf of Mexico, multiple actions in Argentina, Peru, etc. And we were about to enter a two year war with Mexico.

This is just Israel and Palestine working it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

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oh, and don’t forget the many Indian Wars we fought even in those early years of our existence.

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Since the way the Bush administration handled the Hussein execution I have never felt a moral high ground in the Middle East, the dirty detail of handing him over to a mob, Michal Vick type entertainment with humans instead of dogs. And then the war was supposed to end like a Christmas party where the invitation says 6 till 8. How’s that work for ya?

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I. Thinker — “What if there are chemical weapons in those Hamas//.Iranian rockets??????”

Escalation of that type invites escalation on the other side as well. Assuming Hamas has access to biochem weapons, I think they could expect an immediate invasion if they used weapons of that sort against civilian targets.

That said, depending on the type and formulation of the agents involved, the use of biochem weapons might give the source away.

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Gaza must be the first concentration camp with an arsenal of missles. Why doesn’t Egypt take down its wall between Gaza and itself? Why don’t they just annex Gaza? Why isn’t oil money from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, et al doing anything for these people other than buying them missles? Not excusing all of the things Israel does – just saying it’s a two way street.

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LOL, Ben. Yeah, Fox News got it right! It’s the MSM that all teamed together to give the election to Oblamer!

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“Uncle Meatwall’s chest pounding is kinda cute.”

Meatwall.

I haven’t heard that expression in at least a year. Revived just in time for the holiday crowds!

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With a name like “Uncle Stonewall,”

He probably refers to bomb craters as “Glory Holes.”

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The melt down of KR on Fox should be played every November first Tuesday forever. It beats the Nixon meltdown for pure entertainment value.

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USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 19th, 2012
9:06 am

“This is futile war, war conducted solely because neither side has any idea of what other course to take”

well, Israel actually living by its agreements re: settlements would be a nice start.
++++++++++++++++

Yeah, so would it be a nice f’ing start if the arabs would QUIT launching rockets at the Israeli’s you misguided soul.

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Kill ‘em all. Let their God sort ‘em out. Pay attention to America’s problems.

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Do what Nero says.

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And it begins…

http://nation.foxnews.com/war-christmas/2012/11/19/war-christmas-begins

We can win this one!!!

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Israel has no interest in peace. For years their argument was Arafat was the impediment to the peace process, Arafat has been dead for almost 10 years. Then there was a call for democratic elections to be held by the Palestinians and when Hamas won the Israelis and Americans refused to accept the vote of the Palestinian people.

When no one from the power players in the world community will stand with the Palestinians they are left with no recourse when their frustrations hit the wall. Everyone breaks their neck to state their unwavering support for Israel, but seem to forget there are two parties involved in this conflict one seeing themselves as being completely disregarded and disrespected and the other seeing itself as above reproach.

Looking at their condition and these events, one can only come to the conclusion that young Palestinians and Arabs throughout the region can see clearly that they are alone in their pursuit of justice.

We are witnessing once again the shortsighted view of American thinking. The world is changing remember November 6?

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Stevei Ray, I was in Yugoslavia in 1968 traveling with Militia, Long story (sounds clandestine, not really, we had slivovitz and they wanted some, end of story)…anyway, the cauldron was boiling, we just did not see that in the press, etc. The Balkans continue to be the tinderbox of Europe..

@GT, so you think that Bush’s handling( yea right) of sadam’s execution ,YOU have…Can’t really make a lot of sense out of that….Mabye wilso’n defering to the french and brits in 1920 could be a starting point….

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JAY
Your take is balanced.

My own take…to equate Hamas with “the Palestinians” is no more apt than to equate Likud with “the Israelis.” In both cases you have a group in power bent on keeping the conflict alive and not looking for a “solution,” since fundamental to that solution would be their mutual exits stage right.

Hamas is perfectly willing to lob missile after missile into Israel knowing full well that eventually the Israelis will have to respond and perfectly willing to sacrifice the lives of their own people for the PR benefit that is sure to come when Israel retaliates with an overkill. Likud is perfectly willing to squander the legitimate right to self defense by “making a point.” It’s not really much different from the pip squeak on the playground who keeps needling the big guy until the big guy turns around and beats the sh*t out of him when all he really needed to do was slap him one good time, The big guy is then the bully and the little guy the victim. And it goes on and on and on with neither one willing to budge one inch.

Meanwhile, people die.

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Jay, nothing new. Look at the history in this region. Also, ask yourself what would the US do if Mexico or Canada were firing missiles into this country.

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The Israeli/Palestinian situation does have a corollary to the way American is evolving. Jews and muslims lived peacefully side by side for centuries. It’s only when muslim leaders with a personal agenda started inflaming their followers that the muslim masses suddenly found out that the friendly jew next door was actually a blood enemy .

Divide and conquer. Politics in America in the 21st century where the ‘rich’ guy next door that employs many has suddenly become the enemy of the people needing jobs.

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Well, with Israel apparently not open to a permanent two-state solution, and definitely not open to a one state of Israel with a permanent Palestinian majority, that leaves the gradual Israeli annihilation of…..I don’t even want to think about it, Jay, except to say that the world community won’t tolerate such a Naziesque thing and that includes the United States. I mean we won’t, will we, Jay? Jay, please say we won’t.

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when Israel retaliates with an overkill.

I guess that’s my one open question here, josef, and I was asking it downstairs too. At what point does Bibi say “ok, we’ll call it ‘avenged’ and bring the boys back home now.”?

I assume it’ll be some absurd civilian kill ratio, I’d just like to know what that ratio happens to be. 100:1? 1000:1? somewhere in between?

(not that I’m cynical or anything.)

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If they die, then they die. Better them than Americans. Pay attention to American problems.

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Fred – first of all … NEW RECIPE UP!!!

secondly, neither side is innocent – so, it’s time for the blame to be one-sided. Israel has assassinated Palestine’s leaders and hammered them mercilessly – even aiming their missiles at aid organizations who are trying to help the injured. We need to stop ignoring Israel’s faults and hold their feet to the fire for THEIR actions in this ongoing nightmare

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Not Blind

November 19th, 2012
10:36 am

Perhaps your reading comprehension skills are lacking…the link I asked for was one that was suggesting was one that alledged that the baby death shown was of an Israeli kid….

Suggest in the future, you don’t prematurely postulate until you have read, with comprehension, the post of your ire.

That is a good prescription for not looking like an idiot,…

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@ Joe:Some historians believe that the original croat tribes emigrated from poland in about 600 AD, thus the connection. Yep, that stuff will definitely put a shine on you. Keep away from open flame!!

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S. Ray — “Suggest in the future, you don’t prematurely postulate until you have read, with comprehension”

I can think of a lot of regulars on this blog who would benefit greatly by adopting and adhering to such a policy.

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If they die, then they die. Better them than Americans. Pay attention to American problems.

Well…… Republican’s want to Rule the World, and push folks around….. this attitude is not part of the republican make up.

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Gosh… where is all the Republican’s complaining about the stock market today ?

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There will never be peace in the ME

If they wanted peace there will be peace.

Stay out of the ME and move on.

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Face it, Abraham and Sarah started this mess, and nothing is going to change. The Arabs and Jews hate each other and will go to the death mat on this principle. The President was correct…nothing between them will change. Bush II killed off Saddam H., which we now know has really destabilized the region. BiBi is trying to goat the U.S. into a war, and Mr. Obama isn’t buying it. The President wants to bring our military home…gone are the days when we are the world police. Let other countries step up. Until the U.N., gets involved…we need to let them duke it out and shore up our strength at home against homeland attacks. By the way.. to those.of you who are complaining about Mr. Obama, are you willing to suit up and go over to Israel and fight…if not shut up.

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It seems to me that most liberal opposition to Israel is based on the conservative
support for Israel.

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As for the Pink Pig, I miss the REAL one on the roof at downtown Rich’s , NOW those were the days……

Originally it went around inside the store on the floor where the toy department was, and then you went to see reindeer in cages. I was disappointed when they moved it outside.

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“How about Newt calling Romney ” Nuts ” ……… well if that doesn’t take all !”

Kinda like one shuffling nut at the asylum calling another one crazy, isn’t it? Newt is an unending source of embarrassment and humor, isn’t he?

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It’s clear that Israel should never have been founded as a country. Since day one, there’s been nothing but pain, suffering and killing. More than once, we’ve probably come close to war with The Soviet Union over Israel-Arab conflicts.

It’s also clear Israel WAS established and is a soverign nation. It’s equally clear Israel’s Arab neigbors will never tolerate her existence and will always vow total destruction.

Even though we don’t want to admit it, some world problems just can’t be solved by the United States. This is one of them. Therefore, blaiming Obama or any US president for these Middle East calamities accomplishes nothing.

All we can do is just soldier on.

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“I was disappointed when they moved it outside.”

Uh-oh my age is showing…I remember that!! Do you remember the kids’ shopping they had too where salespeople actually helped the kids buy presents? I remember the train going around the base of the tree. You gotta admit that was pretty cool too.

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“It seems to me that most liberal opposition to Israel is based on the conservative support for Israel.”

then you haven’t been reading the posts.

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middle of the road
While your statement of the desires of both sides may be views accepted
by many I would like to see both parties present their desires on paper
accompanied by a venue to acheive their goals.

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barking – that liberals want them to live up to their agreements re: settlements and stop ghettoizing the Palestinians, just two small examples right there that have nothing to do with the GOP

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Well that is easy: Israel wants to live in peace and the Palestinians want Israel “pushed into the sea” and all Jews dead.

Nobody who can dress themselves and cross the street safely could possibly be this stupid.

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These people are still fighting one another? If you have to fight, fight to win & get it over with…

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Let’s face up to one thing for starters. Nobody from the Ottomans forward have given a hoot in hell about the Palestinians. If Israel had not taken over the West Bank in 1967, Jordan would be doing much the same thing with them. From the time of the Samaritans they’ve been unloved, unwanted and uncared for, a convenient pawn. Egypt and Lebanon have done their fair share in locking them into ghettoes/DP camps.

The only remotely possible “solution” is the two-state solution. And unlike the more sanguine, I don’t think it’s dead.

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Why are so many American politicians so eager to sound more pro-Israeli than even some Israelis?

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USinUK
Exactly what control does the Israeli government exert over settlements?
I remember the Israelis going into some settlements and destroying them
and that authority was questioned.
As to ghettos, does the Israeli government force the Palestiinians
to live in certain areas or is that a result of like living with like?

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“Nobody who can dress themselves and cross the street safely could possibly be this stupid.”

all evidence to the contrary

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josef – who here has said ANYthing about “I’m against Israel because the GOP is for them”???

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If only there were more rich people Romney could have won with his gifts to them, what was he thinking ? knuck,knuck.

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barking frog

November 19th, 2012
11:30 am

There has been a steady erosion of the land (due to increased settlement establishment) available for Palestinians to inhabit in the occupied territory. This is far from “like living with like”.

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“who here has said ANYthing about “I’m against Israel because the GOP is for them”???”

other than sports and music, liberals and conservatives agree on absolutely nothing. It’s actually sort of amazing how brainwashed Americans are…

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“More to the point, the editor of al jazeera on PBS (and I suppose he has somehow become far right as well) claims that the Middle East is crying out for US leadership”

Stop me before I kill someone? “US leadership” is just a red herring…it’s the cry of out of control children. They’re adults, no “leadership” is going to stop either side until they CHOOSE to stop.

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“Nobody who can dress themselves and cross the street safely could possibly be this stupid.”

That’s right, I remember now. Israel initiated the Six Day War to expand her lands so that more Jews could immigrate. Then they have been sending their spies into the Gaza Strip to secretly fire rockets at themselves so they can retaliate against the Palestinians.

We all know that if Israel gave Palestinians the “right of return” and let go of the Gaza Strip, that peace and harmony would break out in the region and Jews and Arabs would “live together in perfect harmony”.

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USinUK

Which is why I said, I TEND to agree with Frog,,,tend being the operative word…based more in tone than in definitive substance…

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Jimmy Carter was/is right.

Arabs in Isreal live under apartheid.

It is an evil and pernicious truth.

Gaza and the West Bank are two completely different realities.

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middle of the road @ 11.39, you know what you can do with your straw men.

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Can’t help but wonder how some residents of Georgia would feel if the UN stepped in and decided that the Croatian refugees deserved a new home and decided that NW Georgia was just right.
Then all existing residents would be herded into Douglas county and told to stay put.

Might not the Georgia residents be a tad miffed?
Might not they have a right to be miffed?

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Oops, missed this:

Uh-oh my age is showing…I remember that!! Do you remember the kids’ shopping they had too where salespeople actually helped the kids buy presents? I remember the train going around the base of the tree. You gotta admit that was pretty cool too.

Yep, I remember all of that. My mom still recounts (annually) about a gift that I got for her through the aid of a salesperson. She probably remembers the incident because she had to let me go alone and it was the first time that happened.

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josef
Then it seems the Israelis enforce their laws more than we do as to
non citizens but their immigrants often react differently than ours.

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Can we move the Palestinians to Detroit?

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alex,

ODS much?

It is not about our President.

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Soothsayer
How did the Jews steal Palestine?

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I would like the Bond which I had from GM to be paid off as it should have been when GM was takine into “bankruptcy” this is actually not a gift as I “loaned” this money( a BOND), but I’ll take whatever I can get…..

Did that bond not come with a prospectus?

Weren’t you warned that investments carry risks?

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josef
Does the Israeli government claim the land the settlements are on?

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FROG

The “illegal immigrant” Palestinians is a big issue in Israel, and especially vis a vis the gay community. The Jerusalem government is under pressure to grant them exemption on grounds of persecution should they be forced to return home. There’s been an excellent Israeli film, “The Invisible Men” which focuses on this.

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frog: how does a shoplifter steal a bottle of liquor? They took something that belonged to someone else and didn’t pay for it.

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Speaking of Croatian refugees in NW georgia.. Only job he could get, happy to get it and since he worked for peanuts the good old boys where pleased. Of course he made himself indispensable, that helped Didn’t need any blue helmets..

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FROG

That’s one of the questions up in the air. The tactic has been to place the settlements in such a manner as to be “negotiated” in the drawing of borders if/when a two state solution can be reached. This is the real sticking point vis a vis the settlements and Israeli territorial ambitions…

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barking – 11:58 – which is why that was my #1 post on this issue (and, coinkidentally, the #1 post on this topic)

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The only remotely possible “solution” is the two-state solution.

Yes, it is. Make it so. Use the neocon doctrine.

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“They should have created Israel in GERMANY.”

Or Europe but religion got in the way.

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ZamVet

Yeah, a little bit of time away from them. Spent the first part of the day today though being a capitalist running dog of Zionist international na zi Jew banker imperialism!

FROG
“How did the Jews steal Palestine?”

Same way Sooth’s people stole Georgia…

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why is israel doing this what does those liltle children have to do with everything you guys are just mad cuz you guys cant tke over palistine how many years have you gus tryin how many millions of people have stood in your faces and then you guys just start shooting them then throwing bombs then nock people doors down kill lillte children like idiots we just wanna live in peace like any body else does palistine all day

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I worked at a liquor store while going to school and did not see any shoplifting.

Of course, I was drunk the whole time so I might have missed it.

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Mohammed must be pregnant, because he sure skipped a lot of periods.

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alex,

tim wants the debt ceiling to be infinity.

Money rules, you should know this fact by now.

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FROG
And they’re still pissed that some of ‘em didn’t TRADE for the firewater, just took it!

Mohammad…

Not at all being snarky here, please understand, but are you Palestinian?

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So Turkey’s Erdogan has now called Israel a “terrorist state”.

You really wonder whether we have crossed over some line in a configuration of tectonic plates that cannot be crossed back from. The region has now changed in such fundamental ways, perhaps this latest escalation will move us into waters where we have not been before.

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ZamVet

And before I forget…it’s Baby Jesus’ birthday, d*mmit!

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Heartbreaking piece by Dahlia…

35 years ago this week, Anwar Sadat addressed the Israeli Knesset in an unprecedented and historic move toward establishing peace between Israel and Egypt. My little brother and I stayed up half the night making an enormous Egyptian flag. We colored it in with pencils and crayons and trekked up to the Knesset with it, where we stood on the sidewalk with throngs of Israelis, waiting for his mortorcade to arrive. Our flag was so huge, we took up three feet of sidewalk.

I am worried about our friends here who are being called up. I am worried about my friends here who are war correspondents. I am worried about terrified children in Gaza. I am also worried about how I will explain to my sons why we are staying, but I’m more worried about what I would tell them if we left. I am crazy-worried about my parents who live in the south, where 1400 rockets have been fired since January. I am worried about how this can possibly ever end if just tweeting about peace is an international act of aggression.

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josef
speaking of babies, three weeks ago yesterday my son became the
proud father of a 3 month premature baby boy weighed 2 pounds 1/2 oz.
now 2 lbs 10 oz.

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Israel is absolutely convinced Yahweh gave them the land they’re on now. Palestinians are absolutely convinced Allah has given this SAME land to them. You cannot reason with religious fundamentalists and this is why no peaceful solution to the Middle East problem will ever be found.

In America, there are still Amerindians who are convinced The Great Spirit gave them the land we call the US. If their numbers were sufficient, we(non Amerindians) would be in a constant and neverending war over the land we now live on.

As long as humans are humans, some things will never change.

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barking frog

Congrats on the grand baby. Hope mom, dad and the baby are doing well.

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bf, that is a BFD. Congrats!

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The IDF called the Palestinians to warn them they are about to be bombed so they can evacuate.

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Have the SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS! declared war on xmas?

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getalife
If i were going to be bombed i would probably evacuate or get bombed.

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barking – hey! way to go on the grand-tadpole!!

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Congrats barking frog

My little girl was born 3 months premature (2lbs, 8 oz) and after some trying times and 2 months in NICU, she is doing great. She is now 6 years old and you can not tell she was premature.

I hope nothing but good health and happiness for your grandchild.

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“Or move Israel to Florida.”

I’ve always said we should move Israel to Mexico…the Mexicans want to be here in America anyway, so we open the border and just be one big AmeriJewican family!

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Joe Hussein Mama

The first thing that was drilled into when I went to the marketplace to invest was, “if you don’t like any risk at all, then this is not the place for you.”

It’s immaterial that bonds are less risky than equities. Every prospectus that I have tried to read was very clear on one thing — this thing could lose your money.

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“But nothing will be resolved; nothing will change. This is futile war, war conducted solely because neither side has any idea of what other course to take. Both sides recognize that they are trapped in a hellish situation that cannot be sustained, and that also cannot be changed.”

Yes ………… this is what happens when you have good vs. evil, terrorism vs. sanity, depotism vs. democracy, crime vs. law, etc., etc., etc.

“NEVER AGAIN” !

P.S.

No need to feel sorry for the bad guys because they take more casualties. They started it.

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USinUK
yep.

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froggie, Mazel Tov!

A tad over two pounds?!

How wonderful that modern medicine can keep those mini-munchkins alive, huh?

Best to you and yours!

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K’Chak — “Joe Hussein Mama The first thing that was drilled into when I went to the marketplace to invest was, “if you don’t like any risk at all, then this is not the place for you.”

Absolutely. No argument there.

“It’s immaterial that bonds are less risky than equities. Every prospectus that I have tried to read was very clear on one thing — this thing could lose your money.”

If you’re holding corporate debt (especially *unsecured* corporate debt) and the bankruptcy court tries to zero you out in a cramdown, then just give the eff up and go home, because you’re not getting a freakin’ dime. I wouldn’t *touch* corporate paper myself.

The only way you’d have a hope in hell is if you were holding *secured* debt backed by something like hard assets or collateral, but virtually no *individual* investors would be a position to do that. Even so, the GM bailout was a Ch 11 *reorg* — not an outright liquidation.

Besides, hoodahell was holding GM debt after the fall of 2008 anyway?

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Boys, Boys, Let’s review :in a bankruptcy, the bondholder should be paid ,if the company has assets. These assets may be factories, etc. GM obviously had/has assets,which should have been sold off to pay off the bond holders first then if anyhting is left the stockholders..Was this done? NO. I am no economist, but that is my understanding of how this bankruptcy should have proceeded. Are there risks any time you LOAN someone money, yes,BUT an attempt should be made to pay off the bond holders, if posible. It was possible, it simply was not done, Merry Christmas.If anyone is a bankruptcy expert(only if you are one, not “think” you are one), please add.

@getalife, yes, yes for repubs and Dems (ask Dodd and Barnie about Fannie Mae), but I don’t have to like it. “to the barricades”…..

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The question has been asked, often inartfully indicating the questioners’ bias, around the globe and I have yet ti to find an answer of substance…just what should Bibi do/have done…?

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I assume that the Confederacy did nothing to provoke Sherman’s March to the sea and wanton attacks on civilians and their property including Atlanta?
I also assume that the Germans did nothing to provoke the US and Britain leveling Dresden and killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians?
and I also assume that the Japanese were known for humanely treating conquered countries and US prisoners and did nothing to justify Hhiroshima and Nagasaki where tens of thousands civilians were killed;
and we can assume that not enough Israelis who include descendants of 800,000 refugees kicked out of Arab countries with their property stolen have a real justification for attacking Hamas who has lobbed over 800 missles at Israel this year and who obtained their land free of any settlements from Israel in 2005 with no concessions on Hamas part.

The moral equivalency circulating on this blog is amazing. Must be the aftereffects of Sherman’s march.

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GRASSHOPPER

Jay has (not on this thread, but earlier) made it clear that he thinks Israeli has the right (and duty) to counter those attacks…

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paulo977 What say you Mr Peace Prize Obama?????????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!

I think he said, I’m going to Burma and I hope this mess is over by the time I get back (sort of like I’m going to Vegas when the Bengahzi attack occurred). Maybe he said “present” as he boarded Air Force 1

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in alex’s defense…the risk he assumed was not the risk he encountered…

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@ Joe, thnaks, how many individuals hold corporate bonds as part of a Bond mutual fund and I guess the next ? would be should GM have been allowed chapert 11 as opposed to be made to pay off the bondholders…Yes, Yes, risk is relative<yes, yes; is Coke stock as risky as a wind farm startup? ….

Risk is relative, of course and secured bonds should be "relatively " risk free as different from the stockholders, but I digress. Really learning something here, again I am no expert, but ths Gift thing goes both ways, ask the administration about AIG, there is a lot to grumble about. Personally I would like a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts as a gift…..

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From Reuters : ‘Gaza assault raises anger in changed Arab world’

As I said, the world is changing. The continued same as usual, shortsighted approach of the Israeli government and the unwillingness of America to hold Israel accountable in any measure will continue to fan the flames that will soon ignite the powder keg.

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…the risk he assumed was not the risk he encountered…

(shrug)

Risk is risk. To assume that the market plays by some “rules” is naïveté of the first order.

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Who decides chap7 vs chap 11and what are the criteria for the decision…?thanks, pass the donuts….

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alex — “@ Joe, thnaks, how many individuals hold corporate bonds as part of a Bond mutual fund”

Don’t know; I prefer equities to bonds. I feel like I need to know minute details about a company before I invest in corporate paper and I’m too lazy to do that.

“and I guess the next ? would be should GM have been allowed chapert 11 as opposed to be made to pay off the bondholders…”

That question I can’t answer. I have no idea how the courts determine that sort of thing, or if they could override a petitioner and say ‘eff no, you’re broke and you’re liquidating.’

“Risk is relative, of course and secured bonds should be “relatively ” risk free as different from the stockholders, but I digress.”

Were you holding *secured* paper? Or unsecured?

“Personally I would like a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts as a gift…..”

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I enjoyed reading Jay’s poetically epoch voice-in-the-wilderness meme about the meaning of war. He could have written this during the last GazaGate. (It’s always the presidents fault). He opens with a war chronicle comparing competing collateral damage to tank tracks in Gaza. He was trying to set the tone for his meteroric and metaphoric close. Paraphrasing Jay: “Electrically they keep a baseball score and then the beat goes on. Oh, the futility of The Groundhog Day War. Israel knows it. Hamas knows it. The American people know it.” Jay sees Israel and Hamas as ceremonial reenactors of the last Gaza bloodletting. Paraphrasing Jay again: “The lady holding the scales of justice cant see the morality of her justice. Morality of war? Justice is comensurate retaliation? Why or how can this be? Oh, the poetry that’s available here. It writes itself”. (Oh brother)

Groundhog Day War. The ditto war? Wrong. This time it is different. This time Egyptian sectarian support is on the table. That has revealed vast sectarian support to Hamas’ cause that stretches all the way to China, man. Egypt tapped Hamas on the shoulder and cut in, and found it liked dancing with Israel. Now there’s a chorus line waiting their turn. Is this the first real breach of the Camp David Peace Agreement brokered by Carter? Is there anything Obama can do? Is it GazaGate? No. but as support for Hamas trends, then Hamas will try to legislate from the battlefield, which is what Patraeus was trying to do in Benghazi, and what Macarthur wanted to do in Korea. (and when are Americans going to learn that our commander in chief necessarily must be a civilian)? We don’t legislate from the battlefield.

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willie lynch

November 19th, 2012
1:03 pm

Yup, and the arab world that surrounds Israel is more equipped to push the Israeli’s into the sea…

Israel is the only one in position to fix this..if they don’t address refugee/poverty issue with integrity, nothing will change except those sick and tired of getting kicked around by Zionists, will light the powder keg…we are closer than ever..

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RF

November 19th, 2012
1:11 pm

Good question..if we continue to enable the Zionists to continue on same track, nothing will change. I think if we went to them and said no more money or weapons….you are on your own, the winds may shift…if not they will get the fight nobody wants

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@ Joe I’m a Boglehead and too lazy to invest in individual stocks or bonds and have read” A random walk down Wall st.” and whole thing is rigged in my mind.Index funds are my world and fortunately am back to the same financial position I was in in 2007…….

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GRASSHOPPER
@ 1:05

Here ya go…
**************************

Jay
November 15th, 2012
3:58 pm

“For what it’s worth, I have no trouble whatsoever with Israel taking out the Hamas commander in retaliation for rocket strikes. Good move. But there is such a thing as overreaction ….”

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alex,

Stop deflecterbating in public and blame congress for gse’s.

The includes your precious gop and w pimped it hard.

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alex — “@geta, yes but these 2 characters were very influencial in getting Fannie to buy up the mortgages for the Countrywides of the world. Did not Dodd get a sweatheart loan from countrywide for his effortss. Good Barnie had no problem with asking Fannie for a job for his partner.”

Um, FNMA (Fannie Mae) *and* FHLMC (Freddie Mac) were *supposed* to buy up conforming mortgages in order to free up market liquidity; that was their Federal *charter.*

I’m not understanding the specific complaint you have about FNMA, other than that they apparently gave jobs to Congressionally-connected people.

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…yes but these 2 characters were very influencial in getting Fannie to buy up the mortgages for the Countrywides of the world.

Not this crap again.

Geez….

Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble.

During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market. In 2005 and 2006, the private sector securitized almost two thirds of all U.S. mortgages, supplanting Fannie and Freddie, according to a number of specialty publications that track this data.

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Has kayaker returned yet?

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S. Ray — “FREDDIE and FANNIE had not small culpability as they put profits way above policy so those heading these or otherwise on the board of directors got big paydays..”

(laughing)

Dude, just hush. (laughing)

I could tell you some stories, but I don’t want to derail this thread farther than it has already been derailed.

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It really is time out for this fake dialogue of negotiation. There is nothing compelling Israel to come to the table…they are in the power position. The Israeli government can drag this talk of a “peace process” out for as long as they choose but eventually the ill will they will have garnered will make any solution manifestly more difficult.

This one sided approach that has been taken by the world powers has done nothing but shown the world community that justice is not blind.

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Stevie Ray

Absolutely.

McClatchy did a series of articles about some those very things:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/10/18/77244/how-moodys-sold-its-ratings-and.html

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/11/01/77791/how-goldman-secretly-bet-on-the.html

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alex — “Joe, agree but these mortgages were awful and they knew it”

No. Sorry. Your claim has been debunked here repeatedly since I’ve been posting here.

I was consulting at one of those organizations for two years (in fact, I was on the job on 9/11) and you’re absolutely wrong.

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Ok, joe, so you tell em that Fannie did not know the quality of loans they were buying from Countrywide, or more accurately they believed that the loans were of adequate quality. Were they duped thru negligence or were they misinformed (lied to). You have stories, do tell, gives a better “flavor ” for the real events. I remember talking to someone who knew the events in “A Man in Full”, Great inside stuff…

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Maybe Fannie and Freddie were”SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS” when they made loans to people who shouldn’t have been able to take them out .

Neither Fannie or Freddie originate loans.

Geez….

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alex — “Ok, joe, so you tell em that Fannie did not know the quality of loans they were buying from Countrywide, or more accurately they believed that the loans were of adequate quality.”

Around 2000 or so, mortgage originators started using more and more ‘private’ securitizers to package and sell their mortgage-backed securities (which is what FNMA and FHLMC do). The securitizers buy the mortgages, pool them together, and then slice up the pools into tranches. They then sell shares in those pools/tranches as securities. Since mortgage loans were among the safest kinds of loans to make, lots of institutions (and individuals) invested in the securities. Investment banks saw the opportunity and started to move in on it.

Consequently, FNMA and FHLMC started losing market share to these private securitizers, who didn’t *care* about the underlying riskiness of the loans. The private securitizers didn’t care if the mortgages were risky, because they weren’t going to hold any of the mortgages themselves. So underwriting standards gradually dropped, and eventually, to regain market share, FNMA and FHLMC pretty much had to accede to mortgage originators. So when the originators sold Freddie and Fannie *crap* mortgages like they were selling the private securitizers, Freddie and Fannie stopped asking questions and underwriting became a joke.

So why’d Freddie and Fannie lower their underwriting standards? Because their shareholders wanted them to. The shareholders wanted steady gains. In fact, FHLMC’s CEO got caught misstating earnings (understated by something like $5 billion) because he wanted to show those slow, steady gains. He *understated* earnings significantly because he wanted a kind of ’slush fund’ of assets that could be trickled back onto the books when the market got bad — so he could *continue* to show those same steady gains, no matter what.

In any event, if an originator sold you a crap loan, how would you know? Whether the homebuyer or the originator was lying to you, how would you know? The difference between the private securitizers (usually with investment banks behind them) and Freddie and Fannie was that the securitizers didn’t keep much, if anything, of what they sold. Freddie and Fannie each had retained portfolios of many *billions* of dollars.

“Were they duped thru negligence or were they misinformed (lied to).”

A little bit of both. I think their shareholder demands represented negligence and their executive management should have stayed tough and kept the high underwriting standards. But in the end, both Freddie and Fannie were being lied to by mortgage originators. All the originators had to do was write a crap loan and sell it; they didn’t retain even the smallest piece of the business. They had no skin in the game.

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“Oh…the old “occupation” nonsense again? Wow…I would have thought the Left could have come up with something more plausible in the past 40 years”

I take it you disagree. Do you have any kind of point?

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Joe, thanks and I aree, one question, I believe that one of the characters who did well in the resession figured out that the companies who sold the insurance on the cdo’s would fail because the cdo were crap because the underlying mortgages were garbage ( I do realize that I am really superficail here and may be off based, go with me..). The way this individual figured this out was that he had a team of researchers actually go back to the paperwork of the original mortgages and saw just how bad the underwriting was for these subprime mortgages,( purchased by fannie and private securtizers). Could not fannie have done the same thing. I believe you are letting fannie’s exec off too easily as I believe that it was widely held that when Fannie was taken over the execs were fired as they were incomptent . If Fannie may did not actually see the crap, they sure could smell it and are as guilty as the private securitzers…

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There is blame to be shared on both sides… and yes, this is a tragedy of the highest order.

On a political note I couldn’t stop hearing complaints during the campaign that Obama wasn’t a strong enough friend of Israel and had a frigid relationship with Netanyahu. Heck, even my father felt that way. That despite the fact that the Obama administration has an incredibly positive track record in this regard including never voting against Israel in the UN, directing massive funding for a variety of Israeli military objectives including Iron Dome, and imposing the toughest Iran sanctions legislation in history to thwart their nascent nuclear weapons program. He also nominated Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court, making the high court the most Jewish in American history, with three Jewish justices. He has also surrounded himself with perhaps the largest inner-circle of close Jewish advisors, including David Axelrod, former Senior Advisor to the President, Rahm Emanuel as former Chief of Staff and now Jack Lew as the President’s new Chief of Staff.

Obama was the FIRST president to host a Passover seder in the White House residence, marking perhaps the FIRST time that gefilte fish was served on Presidential fine china, and it is a tradition which is now in its third year, with Obama at the head of the table.

So now Obama announces that he fully supports Israel and its right to defend itself and this is a surprise?

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“So now Obama announces that he fully supports Israel and its right to defend itself and this is a surprise?”

Beyond: the Repubs like to think they’re the only ones who REALLY support Israel. They can’t have themselves looking like they’re on the same side as the president, even if it means looking like fools in the process (and they’ve done PLENTY of that of late!)

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alex — “The way this individual figured this out was that he had a team of researchers actually go back to the paperwork of the original mortgages and saw just how bad the underwriting was for these subprime mortgages,( purchased by fannie and private securtizers). Could not fannie have done the same thing.”

Seriously — do you have any idea how many mortgages FNMA and FHLMC handled? The sheer volume alone would make that impractical, at best. Once mortgage originators were in control, they exercised that control. They knew that Freddie and Fannie’s shareholders *wanted* more volume, and the only way they were able to get it was to relax underwriting standards (which were, as I said, a joke by then).

But I should point out that better than 80% of the subprime mortgage loans written in the 4 or 5 years before the crash were written by *unregulated* mortgage originators. Had there been more regulation in the mortgage origination market, we’d never have had the RE bubble and market crash.

“I believe you are letting fannie’s exec off too easily as I believe that it was widely held that when Fannie was taken over the execs were fired as they were incomptent.”

I can’t speak for Fannie, but Freddie’s CEO was fired for being *criminal.* Of course, this was several years before the market crash. IIRC, Freddie paid a penalty in nine figures (over $100M) for that slush fund I mentioned.

“If Fannie may did not actually see the crap, they sure could smell it and are as guilty as the private securitzers…”

You might think I’m letting the execs off, but I think *you’re* letting the *shareholders* off. Think about that for a moment.

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Little known history : after Obama consumed the gefilte fish , he turned to Rahm and remarked that he now knew why Emmanuel was so thin and promptly ordered peptobismal at all state dinners where the Israelis were the guest of honor…..

@skipper, you and Gilligan can sign on as crew…Ginger or MaryAnn

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Now we know the correct way to handle the Gaza/Israel issue: Go to Myanmar and smile for the cameras. And hug the natives and then hug some more natives.

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Now we know the correct way to handle the Gaza/Israel issue:

How about a photo op with him reading The Pet Goat ?

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Poor Jack.

He has still learned nothing about the consequences of the right wing’s collective and childish Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Another couple of electoral beat downs, like the one two weeks ago MAY do the trick though…

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@Kam, You’ve said that before, just glad you didn’t include Mrs. Howell !

@Stands: as for jews taking every view, Quite a Stretch, Quite a Stretch——Pepto bismal is for more than just gefilte fish after reading your blog……

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Gee no one was devastated…….. Until they got caught…

Paula Broadwell is telling friends she is devastated by the fallout from her extramarital affair with retired Gen. David Petraeus, which led to his resignation as head of the CIA.

A person close to Broadwell said Sunday she deeply regrets the damage that’s been done to her family and everyone else’s,

Sure she does…….. what a JOKE !

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Welcome to the Occupation,
You have a spelling mistake in your post. The country has not moved far to the RIGHT in the last few years, as you say, it has been moving LEFT LEFT LEFT for decades. It’s called fascism and our country is moving closer towards its Wilson/FDR fascist state utopia every day. Anyone who thinks this country is becoming more conservative just doesn’t have a clue. Study our history, please.

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Peter — “A person close to Broadwell said Sunday she deeply regrets the damage that’s been done to her family and everyone else’s,”

As it turns out, Broadwell was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserves just this past summer. But since her security clearance was yanked about a week ago, I’d say those pretty silver oak leaves aren’t going to be on her shoulders for long.

She’s on her way out. Her military career is over.

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OH NOES! THE DJIA HAS MOVED ANOTHER 177 POINTS AND WE ARE DOOMED!

Wait, what’s that you say?

It’s gone up 177 points?

Never mind.

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skipper — “If the crew from Gilligan’s island were involved”

What do you mean “if?”

We just got done keeping the Howells out of the White House.

Ha! Lovey!

–Mitt Romney

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A person close to Broadwell said Sunday she deeply regrets the damage that’s been done to her family and everyone else’s,

Well, I got nothing to say about the war between the Jews and the Towelheads, but I sure am scratching my head about that doctor husband of this Paula Broadwell. What kind of guy keeps a wife that’s been involved in a affair and makes the national news about it? If he had of been one of us rednecks, we’d be reading about another one of them murder-suicide thingies.

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Question….

What’s the kvetch with the President going to Burma, other than the President is Obama? I can’t think of a better move to shore up that country’s return to a semblance of democracy and attempts to return to the family of nations…

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Another Voice

November 19th, 2012
3:49 pm

Are you talking about the US or Israel and its enemies?

Things get sp confusing some times..

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SHEETZ!

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@Josef, Hmm. Kvetch…There may be more pressing concerns than a few days in the rain forrest, whomever the pres is, Kvetch –you and jamvet need to hit the 20/20….AGAIN !

It is wonderful that the FAR,FAR right members of congress have lost this year, this will, hopefully, significantly decrease the chance that the Repubs will suffer death by primary in 2014 2016…. Always good to re-evaluate your position after a loss. While the left overplays it’s hand (AGAIN), the pendulum will swing and the “natural order of the universe” will be re-established……It well established that the Universe is conservative, everyone KNOWS that the quants have run the numvers. It is only when energy ceases to be put into the system that entropy takes over and the Universe is liberated( AKA liberal) from stability and growth….ALL HAIL THE QUANTS….

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@ Down inAlbany,answer; Colin powell, weren’t we talking about aluminum tubes……..oops, same story just a different cast of characters……..Damned history, if it don’t repeat itself!!

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Ever notice when the liberal press runs an Israeli – Palestinian piece there is always a picture of some crying or wounded child? Always. Why does the press always have to imply that the Israelis are bombing helpless palestiniain children? Clearly, it’s the scum of the earth Muslims who will blow up a Pizza Hut or launch a bunch of rockets without knowing or caring where they’ll land while the Israelis at least try to target the bad guys.

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Your opening lines are a huge misinterpretation of the facts. The root cause huge numbers of Palestinians will die in Gaza is because Hamas is a violent organization trying to kill Israelis with rocket fire. To play Israel up as the bully is an insult to anyone paying attention to the reality of Hamas as a terrorist organization who hides their leaders in civilian communities. It is up to the Palestinians to decide if they want peace or war as their path forward. Hamas and their supporting groups chose violence as an ends to their means. The only true statement in your article is innocent children will suffer. The children have no choice. The adults do.

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Let’s see; Hamas or Israel Who do you think has our back in this scenario?.

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Both sides need to sit down for five minutes and take a look at this picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot

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Let Israel and Hamas, and Israel and Syria fight it out. Let them blow the whole Middle East and its useless desert into oblivion. The world will be a much quieter, calmer place. The people of the Middle East have never had peace because of their primitive religious thought. They have enmeshed the rest of the world in their pitiful cultures. The alst time that place was remotely productive was during the wonderful Roman Empire when the Europeans knew their culture was superior, proved it by suppressing their cultural practices, and enslaved these primitive people the way they should have been.

Even primitive Christians get in on the act these days because they wrongly think that war in Israel means the end of the world. Proof that it doesn’t is the fact that Israel has been in many wars since its pathetic creation (Balfour Declaration).

Bottom Line: Let the Middle Eastern countries solve their own problems. They are not worth the effort of superior Western culture.

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I assume all the cons on here believe George Bush’s plan to have Israel turn over Gaza to the Palestinians free of any Jews or settlemnts has worked just fine and that the Black Muslim in the White House is responsible for Iran supplying Hamas with thousands of missles. If Romney had won, none of this would have occurred out of fear of the GOP wrath.and another Iraq type war. Is that your version of reality?

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This is not WAR. In a war, there is a winner and a loser. The winner takes the property of the loser and disarms the loser. A real war has an end, this seems to go on forever. Follow the money, this (as everything else in the “modern” world) is about enriching someone. These counties are just pawns playing on a board. Again, follow the money.

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