Why the rocket war in Gaza is particularly tragic
War is supposed to be an alternative means of pursuing political change, but the rocket war in Gaza and Israel is something very different. As in any war, people continue to die of course, most of them in Gaza due to the Israelis’ far greater firepower. If a ground invasion of Gaza is launched, those death totals will rise dramatically.
But the hope of political change that is supposed to give war at least a veneer of justification does not exist. Nobody on either side has the slightest belief that anything definitive will emerge from this latest cycle of death and destruction. Israel will have demonstrated once again its immense military advantage and its willingness to use it. Hamas will have added still more names to the list of “martyrs” that it needs to inflame hatred and enhance its standing with the Palestinians and the larger Arab world.
But nothing will be resolved; nothing will change. This is futile war, war conducted solely because neither side has any idea of what other course to take. Both sides recognize that they are trapped in a hellish situation that cannot be sustained, and that also cannot be changed.
This kind of war is ritual human sacrifice to gods who do not listen and do not care.
– Jay Bookman
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378 comments Add your comment
getalife
November 19th, 2012
1:26 pm
alex,
Stop deflecterbating in public and blame congress for gse’s.
The includes your precious gop and w pimped it hard.
getalife
November 19th, 2012
1:26 pm
That not the.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
1:29 pm
alex — “@geta, yes but these 2 characters were very influencial in getting Fannie to buy up the mortgages for the Countrywides of the world. Did not Dodd get a sweatheart loan from countrywide for his effortss. Good Barnie had no problem with asking Fannie for a job for his partner.”
Um, FNMA (Fannie Mae) *and* FHLMC (Freddie Mac) were *supposed* to buy up conforming mortgages in order to free up market liquidity; that was their Federal *charter.*
I’m not understanding the specific complaint you have about FNMA, other than that they apparently gave jobs to Congressionally-connected people.
sickofthis
November 19th, 2012
1:29 pm
The US taxpayer is the real loser here.. Tax Payer funds for israeli bombs and Tax Payer funds for Gaza reconstruction afterwards
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
1:30 pm
…yes but these 2 characters were very influencial in getting Fannie to buy up the mortgages for the Countrywides of the world.
Not this crap again.
Geez….
Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble.
During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market. In 2005 and 2006, the private sector securitized almost two thirds of all U.S. mortgages, supplanting Fannie and Freddie, according to a number of specialty publications that track this data.
josef
November 19th, 2012
1:35 pm
K’CHAK
It was the SONS OF THE CONFEDERATE VETERANS who were behind that…
Adam
November 19th, 2012
1:44 pm
Has kayaker returned yet?
Stevie Ray
November 19th, 2012
1:44 pm
KAMCHAK
There are many, many more variables in that particular story..it’s not as simple as blaming the folks who bundled loans or provide insurance on those bundles. Don’t forget the initiation into the loan process of the mortgage brokers who were the real culprits in passing along bogus deals…most importantly, the credit agencies who were completely negligent in their analysis and grading of the beta for the aggregate of all the tranches within a bundle..
FREDDIE and FANNIE had not small culpability as they put profits way above policy so those heading these or otherwise on the board of directors got big paydays..funny how the FEDs and LIBS are always complaining about CEO pay but have had no problem using our money to bail these idiots out..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
1:48 pm
S. Ray — “FREDDIE and FANNIE had not small culpability as they put profits way above policy so those heading these or otherwise on the board of directors got big paydays..”
(laughing)
Dude, just hush. (laughing)
I could tell you some stories, but I don’t want to derail this thread farther than it has already been derailed.
St Simons
November 19th, 2012
1:48 pm
yay, bf
have you told them what barking frog means?
willie lynch
November 19th, 2012
1:50 pm
It really is time out for this fake dialogue of negotiation. There is nothing compelling Israel to come to the table…they are in the power position. The Israeli government can drag this talk of a “peace process” out for as long as they choose but eventually the ill will they will have garnered will make any solution manifestly more difficult.
This one sided approach that has been taken by the world powers has done nothing but shown the world community that justice is not blind.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
1:50 pm
Adam — “Has kayaker returned yet?”
Yes, unrepentant and angry.
I recommended that he take some time off from the blog because it was obviously getting to him, and I think he took me up on my recommendation.
He was *really* getting worked up and nasty; I thought he was heading for a coronary if he spent much more time around here. Hopefully he’ll take some time to come back to room temperature and then return to bedevil us libs further at a later date.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
1:53 pm
Stevie Ray
Absolutely.
McClatchy did a series of articles about some those very things:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/10/18/77244/how-moodys-sold-its-ratings-and.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/11/01/77791/how-goldman-secretly-bet-on-the.html
alex
November 19th, 2012
1:54 pm
Kam, you wiill go your grave believing that, Fannie mae bought crap, they knew it under the assumption that they were a quasi govermental organization, thought they were protected from repercussions, Their CEO (Johnson?) raked in millions and the taxpayer got stuck because this conduit of liquidity.. It was not the only buyer of bad loans (Kam- quit being so black and white, of course they were not the only buyer of these loans, enough of that from you, shees) but a 24% buyer in the exploding market for these mortgagges was HUGE!
Joe, agree but these mortgages were awful and they knew itand thus they were, in essence an easy mark for sullivan(countrywide) and similar crooks. If fannie mae would have shown more diligence in buying the loans thencountrywide, etc would have had less liquidity to sell the loans in the first place. Again, for Kam’s benfit, NO it was not only Fannie Mae, many other investment banks got into this then the securitization, etc. etc, but a 24% player of a huge absolute value is aHUGE player, Kam, why do you defend these guys. Read Reckless Endangerment for a good over view…
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
1:58 pm
alex — “Joe, agree but these mortgages were awful and they knew it”
No. Sorry. Your claim has been debunked here repeatedly since I’ve been posting here.
I was consulting at one of those organizations for two years (in fact, I was on the job on 9/11) and you’re absolutely wrong.
BADA BING (imagine an umlaut above the i, I'm trying to class this place up a little)
November 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
My Allies are killing people that want to kill Americans? Wish we had more Allies like that. I always liked playing ‘Missile Command’ in the good old days. Good shooting, boys.
alex
November 19th, 2012
2:13 pm
Ok, joe, so you tell em that Fannie did not know the quality of loans they were buying from Countrywide, or more accurately they believed that the loans were of adequate quality. Were they duped thru negligence or were they misinformed (lied to). You have stories, do tell, gives a better “flavor ” for the real events. I remember talking to someone who knew the events in “A Man in Full”, Great inside stuff…
larry
November 19th, 2012
2:16 pm
Maybe Fannie and Freddie were”SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS” when they made loans to people who shouldn’t have been able to take them out .
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
2:17 pm
Maybe Fannie and Freddie were”SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS” when they made loans to people who shouldn’t have been able to take them out .
Neither Fannie or Freddie originate loans.
Geez….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
Confession time: I finally fell prey to this commercial ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyGBrzYRzrQ ) and decided to try one out.
This is one of the reasons that the rest of the world hates us.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
2:39 pm
alex — “Ok, joe, so you tell em that Fannie did not know the quality of loans they were buying from Countrywide, or more accurately they believed that the loans were of adequate quality.”
Around 2000 or so, mortgage originators started using more and more ‘private’ securitizers to package and sell their mortgage-backed securities (which is what FNMA and FHLMC do). The securitizers buy the mortgages, pool them together, and then slice up the pools into tranches. They then sell shares in those pools/tranches as securities. Since mortgage loans were among the safest kinds of loans to make, lots of institutions (and individuals) invested in the securities. Investment banks saw the opportunity and started to move in on it.
Consequently, FNMA and FHLMC started losing market share to these private securitizers, who didn’t *care* about the underlying riskiness of the loans. The private securitizers didn’t care if the mortgages were risky, because they weren’t going to hold any of the mortgages themselves. So underwriting standards gradually dropped, and eventually, to regain market share, FNMA and FHLMC pretty much had to accede to mortgage originators. So when the originators sold Freddie and Fannie *crap* mortgages like they were selling the private securitizers, Freddie and Fannie stopped asking questions and underwriting became a joke.
So why’d Freddie and Fannie lower their underwriting standards? Because their shareholders wanted them to. The shareholders wanted steady gains. In fact, FHLMC’s CEO got caught misstating earnings (understated by something like $5 billion) because he wanted to show those slow, steady gains. He *understated* earnings significantly because he wanted a kind of ’slush fund’ of assets that could be trickled back onto the books when the market got bad — so he could *continue* to show those same steady gains, no matter what.
In any event, if an originator sold you a crap loan, how would you know? Whether the homebuyer or the originator was lying to you, how would you know? The difference between the private securitizers (usually with investment banks behind them) and Freddie and Fannie was that the securitizers didn’t keep much, if anything, of what they sold. Freddie and Fannie each had retained portfolios of many *billions* of dollars.
“Were they duped thru negligence or were they misinformed (lied to).”
A little bit of both. I think their shareholder demands represented negligence and their executive management should have stayed tough and kept the high underwriting standards. But in the end, both Freddie and Fannie were being lied to by mortgage originators. All the originators had to do was write a crap loan and sell it; they didn’t retain even the smallest piece of the business. They had no skin in the game.
H. West
November 19th, 2012
2:45 pm
“It would also be helpful if Israel stopped building settlements on land that isn’t theirs.”
Oh…the old “occupation” nonsense again? Wow…I would have thought the Left could have come up with something more plausible in the past 40 years.
I guess that tired, rigid, and illogical are just ingrained pathways for the Progressive mind…
Regnad Kcin
November 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
“Oh…the old “occupation” nonsense again? Wow…I would have thought the Left could have come up with something more plausible in the past 40 years”
I take it you disagree. Do you have any kind of point?
DawgDad
November 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
“But the hope of political change that is supposed to give war at least a veneer of justification does not exist.”
I was absolutely struck dumbfounded when I read this. Might want to check any newspaper printed in our lifetime, particulary since September 11, 2001 as it relates to politics just here in America. Considering only the upheaval THIS YEAR or this LAST MONTH in the Middle East, Jay, your statement is flatly preposterous.
Conflict and upheaval in the Middle East is inevitable. What concerns me is living under a Government invested in the conflict all the while lying and propagnadizing to its citizens about its involvement. Not really sure whose side “we” are on, or that the USG is even looking out for us.
alex
November 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
Joe, thanks and I aree, one question, I believe that one of the characters who did well in the resession figured out that the companies who sold the insurance on the cdo’s would fail because the cdo were crap because the underlying mortgages were garbage ( I do realize that I am really superficail here and may be off based, go with me..). The way this individual figured this out was that he had a team of researchers actually go back to the paperwork of the original mortgages and saw just how bad the underwriting was for these subprime mortgages,( purchased by fannie and private securtizers). Could not fannie have done the same thing. I believe you are letting fannie’s exec off too easily as I believe that it was widely held that when Fannie was taken over the execs were fired as they were incomptent . If Fannie may did not actually see the crap, they sure could smell it and are as guilty as the private securitzers…
skipper
November 19th, 2012
2:58 pm
IfCynthia McKinny decides to get on a ship again and bring supplies to Gaza, let THAT ONE THROUGH (or let ‘em think they got through)…..then re-start the firing…………ain’t a rocket slingin’ wacko in all of Gaza as crazy as that one. Billy McKinny said LOUDLY on the new after her (well-deserved and needed defeat) that the reason she lost was “J-E-W-S.”
Beyond The Middle of the Road
November 19th, 2012
3:00 pm
There is blame to be shared on both sides… and yes, this is a tragedy of the highest order.
On a political note I couldn’t stop hearing complaints during the campaign that Obama wasn’t a strong enough friend of Israel and had a frigid relationship with Netanyahu. Heck, even my father felt that way. That despite the fact that the Obama administration has an incredibly positive track record in this regard including never voting against Israel in the UN, directing massive funding for a variety of Israeli military objectives including Iron Dome, and imposing the toughest Iran sanctions legislation in history to thwart their nascent nuclear weapons program. He also nominated Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court, making the high court the most Jewish in American history, with three Jewish justices. He has also surrounded himself with perhaps the largest inner-circle of close Jewish advisors, including David Axelrod, former Senior Advisor to the President, Rahm Emanuel as former Chief of Staff and now Jack Lew as the President’s new Chief of Staff.
Obama was the FIRST president to host a Passover seder in the White House residence, marking perhaps the FIRST time that gefilte fish was served on Presidential fine china, and it is a tradition which is now in its third year, with Obama at the head of the table.
So now Obama announces that he fully supports Israel and its right to defend itself and this is a surprise?
H. West
November 19th, 2012
3:05 pm
@Regnad Kcin
Of course…my point is that the during Israel’s war of independence the Trans-Jordanians moved into the West Bank and occupied it for 19 years before it was liberated by the Jews in 1967. The perverted sensibilities of the Left consider the liberators in this case to now be the occupiers, so while I am not surprised to see this same old tired lie trotted out again by the historically ignorant, I can not sit by and be silent.
RF
November 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
“So now Obama announces that he fully supports Israel and its right to defend itself and this is a surprise?”
Beyond: the Repubs like to think they’re the only ones who REALLY support Israel. They can’t have themselves looking like they’re on the same side as the president, even if it means looking like fools in the process (and they’ve done PLENTY of that of late!)
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
Beyond @ 3.00, I get your point, but I couldn’t help but think of the dear, departed Phil Ochs, who once sang…
I read New Republic and Nation
I’ve learned to take every view
You know, I’ve memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I’m almost a Jew
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
3:08 pm
alex — “The way this individual figured this out was that he had a team of researchers actually go back to the paperwork of the original mortgages and saw just how bad the underwriting was for these subprime mortgages,( purchased by fannie and private securtizers). Could not fannie have done the same thing.”
Seriously — do you have any idea how many mortgages FNMA and FHLMC handled? The sheer volume alone would make that impractical, at best. Once mortgage originators were in control, they exercised that control. They knew that Freddie and Fannie’s shareholders *wanted* more volume, and the only way they were able to get it was to relax underwriting standards (which were, as I said, a joke by then).
But I should point out that better than 80% of the subprime mortgage loans written in the 4 or 5 years before the crash were written by *unregulated* mortgage originators. Had there been more regulation in the mortgage origination market, we’d never have had the RE bubble and market crash.
“I believe you are letting fannie’s exec off too easily as I believe that it was widely held that when Fannie was taken over the execs were fired as they were incomptent.”
I can’t speak for Fannie, but Freddie’s CEO was fired for being *criminal.* Of course, this was several years before the market crash. IIRC, Freddie paid a penalty in nine figures (over $100M) for that slush fund I mentioned.
“If Fannie may did not actually see the crap, they sure could smell it and are as guilty as the private securitzers…”
You might think I’m letting the execs off, but I think *you’re* letting the *shareholders* off. Think about that for a moment.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
3:08 pm
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/11/19/175043_a175038/mcclatchy-cartoons-for-the-week.html
Heh, heh, heh.
alex
November 19th, 2012
3:13 pm
Little known history : after Obama consumed the gefilte fish , he turned to Rahm and remarked that he now knew why Emmanuel was so thin and promptly ordered peptobismal at all state dinners where the Israelis were the guest of honor…..
@skipper, you and Gilligan can sign on as crew…Ginger or MaryAnn
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
Ginger or MaryAnn
Both.
At the same time.
Jack ®
November 19th, 2012
3:15 pm
Now we know the correct way to handle the Gaza/Israel issue: Go to Myanmar and smile for the cameras. And hug the natives and then hug some more natives.
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
3:16 pm
Twinkies are coming back.
Zombie-Twinkies that is.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
3:18 pm
Now we know the correct way to handle the Gaza/Israel issue:
How about a photo op with him reading The Pet Goat ?
alex
November 19th, 2012
3:18 pm
I’m not letting anyone off.. I’ll get back to you about an analysis about the mortgages,I do believe it was done and of course a sampling could have been done……..Blaming the shareholders is not farfetched as the drive to profits did affect the corrupt ceo’s and did lead to softening of the mortgage underwriting principals. Doubt most investors in Index funds knew the implications as you are stating them……..
JamVet
November 19th, 2012
3:19 pm
Poor Jack.
He has still learned nothing about the consequences of the right wing’s collective and childish Obama Derangement Syndrome.
Another couple of electoral beat downs, like the one two weeks ago MAY do the trick though…
RF
November 19th, 2012
3:22 pm
“Another couple of electoral beat downs, like the one two weeks ago MAY do the trick though…”
Jam: don’t be so sure. The nutjobs still control a lot of state legislatures, and they’re bound and damned determined to hang on to the nonsense. A few A21 powerpoints and they’ll be back at full steam in no time…
alex
November 19th, 2012
3:25 pm
@Kam, You’ve said that before, just glad you didn’t include Mrs. Howell !
@Stands: as for jews taking every view, Quite a Stretch, Quite a Stretch——Pepto bismal is for more than just gefilte fish after reading your blog……
JamVet
November 19th, 2012
3:29 pm
RF, true.
And forgive me, but I really don’t care how much the neocons screw up Kansas or Arkansas or South Carolina or Montana anymore.
Because in the big picture, they and their fake conservatism just got whacked.
Again.
To wit, five of their six most rabid, irrational candidates (West, Walsh, Allen, Akin and Mourdoch) all went down in flames. And Bachmann survived by the hair of her chinny chin chin.
Can they still do a lot of damage?
You betcha!
But they are getting routed so regularly on the national stage now, that even some of them are begrudgingly admitting that they have to change.
I’m not sure that they will, but time will tell…
Peter
November 19th, 2012
3:31 pm
Gee no one was devastated…….. Until they got caught…
Paula Broadwell is telling friends she is devastated by the fallout from her extramarital affair with retired Gen. David Petraeus, which led to his resignation as head of the CIA.
A person close to Broadwell said Sunday she deeply regrets the damage that’s been done to her family and everyone else’s,
Sure she does…….. what a JOKE !
skipper
November 19th, 2012
3:37 pm
@Peter,
The “Peter-factor” (no pun intended, lol) was what got her, and nothing else. She regrets gettin’ caaught, and thats about it……
Child, please
November 19th, 2012
3:38 pm
Welcome to the Occupation,
You have a spelling mistake in your post. The country has not moved far to the RIGHT in the last few years, as you say, it has been moving LEFT LEFT LEFT for decades. It’s called fascism and our country is moving closer towards its Wilson/FDR fascist state utopia every day. Anyone who thinks this country is becoming more conservative just doesn’t have a clue. Study our history, please.
alex
November 19th, 2012
3:39 pm
@ Jack , didn’t you hear: this is part of the Administrations pivot to counter the chinese influence in S.E. Asia. Besides the elephant rides are great……Gotta EARN that Nobel…….
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
3:41 pm
Peter — “A person close to Broadwell said Sunday she deeply regrets the damage that’s been done to her family and everyone else’s,”
As it turns out, Broadwell was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserves just this past summer. But since her security clearance was yanked about a week ago, I’d say those pretty silver oak leaves aren’t going to be on her shoulders for long.
She’s on her way out. Her military career is over.
skipper
November 19th, 2012
3:42 pm
@Alex,
If the crew from Gilligan’s island were involved, it would be an improvment (in any and every way) over any and everything having to do with Cynthia “Ding-bat” McKinney…..she should have joined Irma Grese and been a guard at a concentration camp………maybe not; she would have enjoyed it too much!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
3:43 pm
OH NOES! THE DJIA HAS MOVED ANOTHER 177 POINTS AND WE ARE DOOMED!
Wait, what’s that you say?
It’s gone up 177 points?
Never mind.
JamVet
November 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
The country has not moved far to the RIGHT in the last few years…
Agreed.
Just both major political parties.
And why they need to go the way of the Whig, Lily White and Prohibition Parties…
As for the use of the world *conservative*, all I can ask is where are these so-called conservatives?
You Republicans have killed that ideology. Dead. Kaput. Adiosed…
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
skipper — “If the crew from Gilligan’s island were involved”
What do you mean “if?”
We just got done keeping the Howells out of the White House.
Ha! Lovey!
–Mitt Romney
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
3:45 pm
…it has been moving LEFT LEFT LEFT for decades. It’s called fascism…
There’s your sign.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 19th, 2012
3:47 pm
A person close to Broadwell said Sunday she deeply regrets the damage that’s been done to her family and everyone else’s,
Well, I got nothing to say about the war between the Jews and the Towelheads, but I sure am scratching my head about that doctor husband of this Paula Broadwell. What kind of guy keeps a wife that’s been involved in a affair and makes the national news about it? If he had of been one of us rednecks, we’d be reading about another one of them murder-suicide thingies.
Stevie Ray
November 19th, 2012
3:48 pm
Child, please
November 19th, 2012
3:38 pm
Facism? Really? Hmmm..can you please provide me a few examples of that new development and similarities the facist states as a comparison?
josef
November 19th, 2012
3:48 pm
Question….
What’s the kvetch with the President going to Burma, other than the President is Obama? I can’t think of a better move to shore up that country’s return to a semblance of democracy and attempts to return to the family of nations…
Another Voice
November 19th, 2012
3:49 pm
As long as the extremes on both sides dominate the discussion…. hate and war will continue to be an easy sell for both sides.
Stevie Ray
November 19th, 2012
3:51 pm
Another Voice
November 19th, 2012
3:49 pm
Are you talking about the US or Israel and its enemies?
Things get sp confusing some times..
DownInAlbany
November 19th, 2012
4:00 pm
At the risk of being accused of “hijacking the thread”…General Petreaus was being defended on here last week of being an honest man. The right was being accused of not being satisfied…damned if you do (testify), damned if you don’t. He supposedly testified (behind closed doors, so, who knows?) that his talking points were edited before UN Ambassador Rice went on MSM outlets. The WH now says no editing took place. Who to believe?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
4:02 pm
SHEETZ!
Paul
November 19th, 2012
4:04 pm
josef
“other than the President is Obama?”
Reason enough for the lalaland Right.
DownInAlbany
Have you heard any good theories as to why the points would be edited? Or why the AQ angle would make the White House want to ‘lie’? I’ve heard a couple reasons, but I’m looking for some good ones.
alex
November 19th, 2012
4:09 pm
@Josef, Hmm. Kvetch…There may be more pressing concerns than a few days in the rain forrest, whomever the pres is, Kvetch –you and jamvet need to hit the 20/20….AGAIN !
It is wonderful that the FAR,FAR right members of congress have lost this year, this will, hopefully, significantly decrease the chance that the Repubs will suffer death by primary in 2014 2016…. Always good to re-evaluate your position after a loss. While the left overplays it’s hand (AGAIN), the pendulum will swing and the “natural order of the universe” will be re-established……It well established that the Universe is conservative, everyone KNOWS that the quants have run the numvers. It is only when energy ceases to be put into the system that entropy takes over and the Universe is liberated( AKA liberal) from stability and growth….ALL HAIL THE QUANTS….
DownInAlbany
November 19th, 2012
4:10 pm
No, I honestly don’t have any idea. I can’t for the life of me explain it. There seems to be no good answer. Of course, there are crazy theories out there about gun-running, blah, blah. The further we go, the crazier it gets. What are some of the reasons you’ve heard…good ones only, please.
Steve
November 19th, 2012
4:14 pm
@ Down inAlbany,answer; Colin powell, weren’t we talking about aluminum tubes……..oops, same story just a different cast of characters……..Damned history, if it don’t repeat itself!!
Paul
November 19th, 2012
4:21 pm
DownInAlbany
sorry for the delay, migrated to the next thread.
But I’ve heard it advanced that this puts the lie to the claim AQ’s been hit hard, on the ropes, whatever adjectives one wants to use.
Which means those who take issue with how hard AQ’s been hit think as long as they can mount an attack they’re still as formidable as they ever were. Which is silly. It’s like saying ‘well… it’s post-WWII in Germany. We just had some attacks on Allied forces by Nazis so to say they’re defeated is nonsense.”
AmericaShrugged
November 19th, 2012
4:24 pm
Ever notice when the liberal press runs an Israeli – Palestinian piece there is always a picture of some crying or wounded child? Always. Why does the press always have to imply that the Israelis are bombing helpless palestiniain children? Clearly, it’s the scum of the earth Muslims who will blow up a Pizza Hut or launch a bunch of rockets without knowing or caring where they’ll land while the Israelis at least try to target the bad guys.
DownInAlbany
November 19th, 2012
4:27 pm
Thanks, Paul
Mike in Powder Springs
November 19th, 2012
5:01 pm
Your opening lines are a huge misinterpretation of the facts. The root cause huge numbers of Palestinians will die in Gaza is because Hamas is a violent organization trying to kill Israelis with rocket fire. To play Israel up as the bully is an insult to anyone paying attention to the reality of Hamas as a terrorist organization who hides their leaders in civilian communities. It is up to the Palestinians to decide if they want peace or war as their path forward. Hamas and their supporting groups chose violence as an ends to their means. The only true statement in your article is innocent children will suffer. The children have no choice. The adults do.
Old timer
November 19th, 2012
5:39 pm
Israel should not have to live with Hamas pounding them when ever they feel like it. We would not do this. Israel did not strike first and they did not put rockets near day care centers and hospitals.
3d
November 19th, 2012
5:57 pm
Let’s see; Hamas or Israel Who do you think has our back in this scenario?.
middle of the road
November 19th, 2012
7:04 pm
Someone just posted on my Facebook:
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If Jews put down their weapons today, there will be no more Israel.” – Benjamin Netanyahu
I agree with his statement.
Dharma Bum
November 19th, 2012
7:26 pm
Both sides need to sit down for five minutes and take a look at this picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
November 19th, 2012
8:07 pm
The land is Israel’s, from approximately Damascus to the Wadi of Egypt. One day, the Guy that gave it to them will be here to enforce the contract. Until then, we will do well to remember the 12th chapter of Genesis. Down through history, those who have not heeded it have not fared well.
Dr. Socrates
November 19th, 2012
9:28 pm
Let Israel and Hamas, and Israel and Syria fight it out. Let them blow the whole Middle East and its useless desert into oblivion. The world will be a much quieter, calmer place. The people of the Middle East have never had peace because of their primitive religious thought. They have enmeshed the rest of the world in their pitiful cultures. The alst time that place was remotely productive was during the wonderful Roman Empire when the Europeans knew their culture was superior, proved it by suppressing their cultural practices, and enslaved these primitive people the way they should have been.
Even primitive Christians get in on the act these days because they wrongly think that war in Israel means the end of the world. Proof that it doesn’t is the fact that Israel has been in many wars since its pathetic creation (Balfour Declaration).
Bottom Line: Let the Middle Eastern countries solve their own problems. They are not worth the effort of superior Western culture.
independent
November 20th, 2012
8:59 am
Mohammed blogged the following yesterday;
“”"”"”"”"”why is israel doing this what does those liltle children have to do with everything you guys are just mad cuz you guys cant tke over palistine how many years have you gus tryin how many millions of people have stood in your faces and then you guys just start shooting them then throwing bombs then nock people doors down kill lillte children like idiots we just wanna live in peace like any body else does palistine all day”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”
Maybe Mohammed is ignorant about history and blinded by the propoganda of Hamas. Let me explain a few things to him:
1. Your peace loving brothers in Palestine decided to riot and kill hundreds of Jewish Palestinians in the 1920s and 1930s in an effort to rid Palestine of Jews;
2. Your leader, the Grand Mufti joined forces with Hitler to wipe out the Jews ans was tried as a war criminal;
3. Jewish Palestinians fought against Hitler and Hitler and his Arab sympathizers ;lost:;
4. The UN voted in 1948 to partiton Palestine into two states;
.5. Arab Palestinians refused to set up thier own state, fought Israel and lost;
6. Egypt and Jordan invaded Arab Palestine and claimed it as their own putting these so called Palestinians in refugee camps where they remain until today because they will not recognize Israel and they get millions in aid from the UN and the Us as refugees even in Gaza.
6. Israel did the Arab Palestinians a favor and kicked out Jordan and Egypt in 1967 after they threatened Israel with another war.
7. In 2005 Israel gave your brothers free control of GAza and the right to hold elections.
8. Your brothers chose terror as a response to this peace gesture and continue to keep your people in refugee camps while they pocket tons of money from the world due to your permanent status as refugees.
9. Since 1948 Israel absorbed over 800,000 Jews kicked out of Arab countries and their property stolen.None are in refugee camps today.
10. Israel is the most economically successful country in the Middle East turning a waste land into an oasis.
11. You can join in the prosperity like many Israeli Arabs if you will repeat these words: “I recognize Israel’s right to exist” and you support the 1948 UN mandate.
Very simple Mohammed- try it. Then those little children on both sides will not get killed.
fair and balanced
November 20th, 2012
9:12 am
I assume all the cons on here believe George Bush’s plan to have Israel turn over Gaza to the Palestinians free of any Jews or settlemnts has worked just fine and that the Black Muslim in the White House is responsible for Iran supplying Hamas with thousands of missles. If Romney had won, none of this would have occurred out of fear of the GOP wrath.and another Iraq type war. Is that your version of reality?
Tom Middleton
November 20th, 2012
1:58 pm
This is a tough subject to talk about, Jay, for it requires a certain detached balance that most people either don’t have or cannot professionally afford.
But it’s like being an American during the George W. Bush years when we heard from the world that most liked or loved our country and the American people in general, but strongly disliked our government and thought we could do better. We did better, of course, and we are much the better off for it.
But when folks like me try to say that we love the state of Israel and the Jewish people in general, but despise their extremist-right government for the destructive things it does, we catch all kinds of flack from other Americans who agreed with the world about Bush.
But I love them, too, especially since so many are well-meaning liberals, but who seem to think there’s a different set of rules when talking about the Middle East. I don’t accept that, of course, so I won’t be offering apologies to anyone for positions I need to take.
But I do believe that Israel will have to change for the better before peace over there becomes possible. And I will have no problem whatsoever speaking my mind going forward, from now until then, in hopes that Israel will become better from voices like mine, in the same way America became better from listening to the world!
Jay, I heard you say once that you have a feed that allows you to see all new back-lot posts like this one, so I hope you got this and understand why I wrote it.
GrumpyT
November 21st, 2012
7:22 am
This is not WAR. In a war, there is a winner and a loser. The winner takes the property of the loser and disarms the loser. A real war has an end, this seems to go on forever. Follow the money, this (as everything else in the “modern” world) is about enriching someone. These counties are just pawns playing on a board. Again, follow the money.
tanksimulator.weebly.com
November 23rd, 2012
6:05 pm
furious armored unpleasant! Follow the link to see yourself.