Why the rocket war in Gaza is particularly tragic
War is supposed to be an alternative means of pursuing political change, but the rocket war in Gaza and Israel is something very different. As in any war, people continue to die of course, most of them in Gaza due to the Israelis’ far greater firepower. If a ground invasion of Gaza is launched, those death totals will rise dramatically.
But the hope of political change that is supposed to give war at least a veneer of justification does not exist. Nobody on either side has the slightest belief that anything definitive will emerge from this latest cycle of death and destruction. Israel will have demonstrated once again its immense military advantage and its willingness to use it. Hamas will have added still more names to the list of “martyrs” that it needs to inflame hatred and enhance its standing with the Palestinians and the larger Arab world.
But nothing will be resolved; nothing will change. This is futile war, war conducted solely because neither side has any idea of what other course to take. Both sides recognize that they are trapped in a hellish situation that cannot be sustained, and that also cannot be changed.
This kind of war is ritual human sacrifice to gods who do not listen and do not care.
– Jay Bookman
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378 comments Add your comment
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
10:33 am
With a name like “Uncle Stonewall,”
He probably refers to bomb craters as “Glory Holes.”
getalife
November 19th, 2012
10:34 am
They don’t want peace.
Stay out of it like our President is doing.
GT
November 19th, 2012
10:34 am
The melt down of KR on Fox should be played every November first Tuesday forever. It beats the Nixon meltdown for pure entertainment value.
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
10:35 am
alex
The UN solved it by recognizing Israel and Palestine but the Palestinians did not
accept the solution. Conquest has always acquired territory.
Fred ™
November 19th, 2012
10:35 am
USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
9:06 am
“This is futile war, war conducted solely because neither side has any idea of what other course to take”
well, Israel actually living by its agreements re: settlements would be a nice start.
++++++++++++++++
Yeah, so would it be a nice f’ing start if the arabs would QUIT launching rockets at the Israeli’s you misguided soul.
Not Blind
November 19th, 2012
10:36 am
Stevie Ray, the link you need is called book stores and your local library. You can read a lot off various wikipedia pages and other webpages but you have to be willing to dedicate scores of hours to book reading if you want to avoid looking like an idiot. Google ‘grand mufti of jerusalem’ for a short page of background info.
Nero
November 19th, 2012
10:37 am
Kill ‘em all. Let their God sort ‘em out. Pay attention to America’s problems.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
10:38 am
joe. Real American’s don’t support wars for Oil…….only Republican’s do that, and make up stories so they invade a foreign country.
ALL while not watching out for American’s at home……… 911 is the example.
Fred ™
November 19th, 2012
10:38 am
Do what Nero says.
Ben
November 19th, 2012
10:38 am
Stevie Ray: I was slightly wrong, the picture I was talking about was a dead Syrian from over a month ago, slain by his own people, now being displayed as a picture of a dead Palestinian killed by Jews. Here’s some:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/11/18/another-photo-of-syrian-massacre-falsely-recycled-as-gaza-tragedy/
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/11/15/BBC-Lies-About-Gaza-Victim
In the end, it doesn’t matter. The legally elected government of Palestine has decided to shoot missiles into Israel. Israel has a responsibility to its citizens to protect them. There is no such thing as proportionality in warfare. Anyone who says such is really rooting for a particular side to win.
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
10:39 am
And it begins…
http://nation.foxnews.com/war-christmas/2012/11/19/war-christmas-begins
We can win this one!!!
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
10:39 am
A good start to peace would be identifying what each side wants.
willie lynch
November 19th, 2012
10:39 am
Israel has no interest in peace. For years their argument was Arafat was the impediment to the peace process, Arafat has been dead for almost 10 years. Then there was a call for democratic elections to be held by the Palestinians and when Hamas won the Israelis and Americans refused to accept the vote of the Palestinian people.
When no one from the power players in the world community will stand with the Palestinians they are left with no recourse when their frustrations hit the wall. Everyone breaks their neck to state their unwavering support for Israel, but seem to forget there are two parties involved in this conflict one seeing themselves as being completely disregarded and disrespected and the other seeing itself as above reproach.
Looking at their condition and these events, one can only come to the conclusion that young Palestinians and Arabs throughout the region can see clearly that they are alone in their pursuit of justice.
We are witnessing once again the shortsighted view of American thinking. The world is changing remember November 6?
Old Goober
November 19th, 2012
10:39 am
So when there is an election coming up, start a war. . .
Oh, come on! Some of you are so warped in support of the “downtrodden” Palestinians and in opposition to Israel that you’ve become practically anti-Semitic. The simple fact is that Israel has been undergoing daily bombardment from Gaza. And that bombardment won’t stop merely because Israel “frees” Gaza and the West Bank and ceases all hostilities. When you have people even on Fox News who declare that Israel “has no right to exist,” you aren’t dealing with rational people. Israel has the right to defend its people.
alex
November 19th, 2012
10:39 am
Stevei Ray, I was in Yugoslavia in 1968 traveling with Militia, Long story (sounds clandestine, not really, we had slivovitz and they wanted some, end of story)…anyway, the cauldron was boiling, we just did not see that in the press, etc. The Balkans continue to be the tinderbox of Europe..
@GT, so you think that Bush’s handling( yea right) of sadam’s execution ,YOU have…Can’t really make a lot of sense out of that….Mabye wilso’n defering to the french and brits in 1920 could be a starting point….
Paul
November 19th, 2012
10:40 am
I’ve got to go out for a bit but I’ll read for an answer when I return. It’s a question I’ve yet to hear answered.
Management guru Stephen R Covey was fond of saying “Begin with the end in mind.”
Given that, what is the Hamas government of Gaza’s desired end state?
What do they want Israel to do?
Not build settlements? Israel isn’t, in Gaza. Is the Gaza government trying to claim responsibility for territory that relates to the Palestinian Authority on the West Bank and Golan? That’s for the two parties to work out – the Palestinian Authority will not feel bound by agreements negotiated with Hamas regarding that issue.
So what is Hamas/Gaza attempting to accomplish? What is their stated position of what they want in a settlement with Israel?
Near as I can tell, Hamas wants an end to the Israeli blockade of Gaza and an end to preventive security measures along the fence. Question is, if Israel does this, is Hamas willing to cease attacks against Israel?
Or am I reading this incorrectly and Hamas wants something else? If so, what?
Thanks.
josef
November 19th, 2012
10:41 am
JAY
Your take is balanced.
My own take…to equate Hamas with “the Palestinians” is no more apt than to equate Likud with “the Israelis.” In both cases you have a group in power bent on keeping the conflict alive and not looking for a “solution,” since fundamental to that solution would be their mutual exits stage right.
Hamas is perfectly willing to lob missile after missile into Israel knowing full well that eventually the Israelis will have to respond and perfectly willing to sacrifice the lives of their own people for the PR benefit that is sure to come when Israel retaliates with an overkill. Likud is perfectly willing to squander the legitimate right to self defense by “making a point.” It’s not really much different from the pip squeak on the playground who keeps needling the big guy until the big guy turns around and beats the sh*t out of him when all he really needed to do was slap him one good time, The big guy is then the bully and the little guy the victim. And it goes on and on and on with neither one willing to budge one inch.
Meanwhile, people die.
too little time
November 19th, 2012
10:42 am
The silence of this president on the terrorizing of Gazans is absolutely disgusting. Barack Obama’s true colors come out – for anyone who still had any doubts. What a fraud. A Likudnik/Netanyahu puppet is basically what he is, just like his vice president.
You give Obama WAY too much credit. He is not a puppet of Likudnik/Netanyahu. He is a fence sitter. He sits on the fence until there is some way to enter the fray such that the Obama administration looks good. He did it all through the Arab spring (including Libya), entering only when he knew that with air support, Libyan rebels could win. And then he basked in the glow of democratic movements… until those movements went to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Obama is a fence sitter. He stands for nothing. He doesn’t commit unless his focus group shows support…and that rarely happens.
MiltonMan
November 19th, 2012
10:43 am
Jay, nothing new. Look at the history in this region. Also, ask yourself what would the US do if Mexico or Canada were firing missiles into this country.
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
10:43 am
Paul – Hamas wants Isreal to disappear. That’s all. It’s really quit simple. Hate. They’ll spew on about the right of return etc but they won’t stop till Isreal is dead.
Not Blind
November 19th, 2012
10:43 am
The Israeli/Palestinian situation does have a corollary to the way American is evolving. Jews and muslims lived peacefully side by side for centuries. It’s only when muslim leaders with a personal agenda started inflaming their followers that the muslim masses suddenly found out that the friendly jew next door was actually a blood enemy .
Divide and conquer. Politics in America in the 21st century where the ‘rich’ guy next door that employs many has suddenly become the enemy of the people needing jobs.
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
10:44 am
from East Lake’s link:
“a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born”
That’s just so wrong on so many levels.
Tom Middleton
November 19th, 2012
10:45 am
Well, with Israel apparently not open to a permanent two-state solution, and definitely not open to a one state of Israel with a permanent Palestinian majority, that leaves the gradual Israeli annihilation of…..I don’t even want to think about it, Jay, except to say that the world community won’t tolerate such a Naziesque thing and that includes the United States. I mean we won’t, will we, Jay? Jay, please say we won’t.
Nero
November 19th, 2012
10:45 am
Let them kill each other. Stay out of it. Stop crying about other people’s petty vendettas. Pay attention to our problems.
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
10:46 am
when Israel retaliates with an overkill.
I guess that’s my one open question here, josef, and I was asking it downstairs too. At what point does Bibi say “ok, we’ll call it ‘avenged’ and bring the boys back home now.”?
I assume it’ll be some absurd civilian kill ratio, I’d just like to know what that ratio happens to be. 100:1? 1000:1? somewhere in between?
(not that I’m cynical or anything.)
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
10:47 am
alex — “we had slivovitz and they wanted some”
Whoa. That stuff will, as my Polish grandfather would say “put the shoes on ya.”
Nero
November 19th, 2012
10:47 am
If they die, then they die. Better them than Americans. Pay attention to American problems.
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 19th, 2012
10:48 am
A unit of OWS is buying up distressed debt and retiring the debt. That’s pretty cool. They call it “The People’s Bailout.”
They have retired $2 million in distressed debt so far.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
10:48 am
Fred – first of all … NEW RECIPE UP!!!
secondly, neither side is innocent – so, it’s time for the blame to be one-sided. Israel has assassinated Palestine’s leaders and hammered them mercilessly – even aiming their missiles at aid organizations who are trying to help the injured. We need to stop ignoring Israel’s faults and hold their feet to the fire for THEIR actions in this ongoing nightmare
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
10:48 am
and no, josef, I don’t expect you to have some super-secret “Jew-dar” that would know the answer to my stupid rhetorical question @ 10.46, I’m just thinking out loud. Which I probably shouldn’t do.
Stevie Ray
November 19th, 2012
10:50 am
Not Blind
November 19th, 2012
10:36 am
Perhaps your reading comprehension skills are lacking…the link I asked for was one that was suggesting was one that alledged that the baby death shown was of an Israeli kid….
Suggest in the future, you don’t prematurely postulate until you have read, with comprehension, the post of your ire.
That is a good prescription for not looking like an idiot,…
Stevie Ray
November 19th, 2012
10:52 am
Not Blind
November 19th, 2012
10:43 am
Your bias is now clear to me now…it’s all the muslims fault…how has that position over 60 years since this failed experiment worked out for you?
alex
November 19th, 2012
10:54 am
@ Joe:Some historians believe that the original croat tribes emigrated from poland in about 600 AD, thus the connection. Yep, that stuff will definitely put a shine on you. Keep away from open flame!!
josef
November 19th, 2012
10:54 am
sfd
I wish I had the answer to that.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 19th, 2012
10:54 am
S. Ray — “Suggest in the future, you don’t prematurely postulate until you have read, with comprehension”
I can think of a lot of regulars on this blog who would benefit greatly by adopting and adhering to such a policy.
josef
November 19th, 2012
10:59 am
SFD
As per your second post to me, I understand. Thinking aloud, though, is a good thing. The problem here is that there is often not much thinking, but emotional response. We feel obligated to “blame” one side or the other, removed as we are from the daily, moment-by-moment outplay which, frankly, calls for “reaction.” Thinking about it calls for action instead.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
10:59 am
If they die, then they die. Better them than Americans. Pay attention to American problems.
Well…… Republican’s want to Rule the World, and push folks around….. this attitude is not part of the republican make up.
Peter
November 19th, 2012
11:02 am
How about Newt calling Romney ” Nuts ” ……… well if that doesn’t take all !
Poor Romney, not sure what to do with himself…….. I am sure he will get back into corporate raiding soon….as he continues to out source America !
Peter
November 19th, 2012
11:06 am
Gosh… where is all the Republican’s complaining about the stock market today ?
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
11:08 am
WTF is University of Maryland thinking?!!!
Friggin’ azzhats.
I hope the Big10 eats you alive.
getalife
November 19th, 2012
11:08 am
There will never be peace in the ME
If they wanted peace there will be peace.
Stay out of the ME and move on.
the cat
November 19th, 2012
11:11 am
Anyone have a good conrbread stuffing recipe?
OSG
November 19th, 2012
11:11 am
Face it, Abraham and Sarah started this mess, and nothing is going to change. The Arabs and Jews hate each other and will go to the death mat on this principle. The President was correct…nothing between them will change. Bush II killed off Saddam H., which we now know has really destabilized the region. BiBi is trying to goat the U.S. into a war, and Mr. Obama isn’t buying it. The President wants to bring our military home…gone are the days when we are the world police. Let other countries step up. Until the U.N., gets involved…we need to let them duke it out and shore up our strength at home against homeland attacks. By the way.. to those.of you who are complaining about Mr. Obama, are you willing to suit up and go over to Israel and fight…if not shut up.
RF
November 19th, 2012
11:12 am
“The big guy is then the bully and the little guy the victim. And it goes on and on and on with neither one willing to budge one inch.”
That about sums up the ongoing conflict, IMO. The Palestinians are the ever-present little antagonizer, arguably with some good reasons. They know full well what they’re provoking and are willing to allow the consequences so they can say “see we TOLD you they were being cruel!!” It’s a bad situation, but I think Israel has been used to being the big guy on the playground for a long time.
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
11:13 am
It seems to me that most liberal opposition to Israel is based on the conservative
support for Israel.
Not Blind
November 19th, 2012
11:13 am
Getalife, there can be peace but only after all the jews or all the arabs or ALL of them are gone from this earth.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
11:13 am
As for the Pink Pig, I miss the REAL one on the roof at downtown Rich’s , NOW those were the days……
Originally it went around inside the store on the floor where the toy department was, and then you went to see reindeer in cages. I was disappointed when they moved it outside.
middle of the road
November 19th, 2012
11:13 am
“A good start to peace would be identifying what each side wants.”
Well that is easy: Israel wants to live in peace and the Palestinians want Israel “pushed into the sea” and all Jews dead.
Now that we know what they both want, peace is easy, right? Just compromise? Kill only half the Jews and split Israel in half and give it to the Palestinians? But that will not satisfy them because compromise is not in their vocabulary, it is all or nothing. So your choice is to give them everything they want (dead Israel) or retaliate for missiles with missiles. What would YOU do if your state (Georgia) was being shelled by Floridians who want you and your family dead and to take over Georgia. Would YOU roll over and leave?
RF
November 19th, 2012
11:14 am
“How about Newt calling Romney ” Nuts ” ……… well if that doesn’t take all !”
Kinda like one shuffling nut at the asylum calling another one crazy, isn’t it? Newt is an unending source of embarrassment and humor, isn’t he?
Not Blind
November 19th, 2012
11:15 am
Sorry Stevie Ray, I thought you might be interested in a larger , brain stretching truth.
indigo
November 19th, 2012
11:16 am
It’s clear that Israel should never have been founded as a country. Since day one, there’s been nothing but pain, suffering and killing. More than once, we’ve probably come close to war with The Soviet Union over Israel-Arab conflicts.
It’s also clear Israel WAS established and is a soverign nation. It’s equally clear Israel’s Arab neigbors will never tolerate her existence and will always vow total destruction.
Even though we don’t want to admit it, some world problems just can’t be solved by the United States. This is one of them. Therefore, blaiming Obama or any US president for these Middle East calamities accomplishes nothing.
All we can do is just soldier on.
alex
November 19th, 2012
11:16 am
Lots of Isolationalists out there, That did not help for WW1 or WW2, we must stay engaged.
Peter, he market is down by 5% since elction, does it worry me:yes, have I changed my portfolio-no.As for Repubs wanting to rule the world–NO, you can have your part of it , it’s worthless…Sheesh…
RF
November 19th, 2012
11:16 am
“I was disappointed when they moved it outside.”
Uh-oh my age is showing…I remember that!! Do you remember the kids’ shopping they had too where salespeople actually helped the kids buy presents? I remember the train going around the base of the tree. You gotta admit that was pretty cool too.
Thulsa Doom
November 19th, 2012
11:17 am
Independent thinker,
Your statement that Hamas has rockets to “wipe out major population centers of Israel” is nothing short of ludicrous. They have numerous small rockets that can certainly inflict bloodshed and damage but the idea that they can wipe out entire population centers is just plain dumb.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
11:17 am
“It seems to me that most liberal opposition to Israel is based on the conservative support for Israel.”
then you haven’t been reading the posts.
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
November 19th, 2012
11:18 am
But nothing will be resolved; nothing will change. This is futile war, war conducted solely because neither side has any idea of what other course to take.
Is that a reference to Arabs/Jews or Republicans/Democrats?
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
11:19 am
middle of the road
While your statement of the desires of both sides may be views accepted
by many I would like to see both parties present their desires on paper
accompanied by a venue to acheive their goals.
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
11:21 am
USinUK
What do you read in the posts?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
11:23 am
barking – that liberals want them to live up to their agreements re: settlements and stop ghettoizing the Palestinians, just two small examples right there that have nothing to do with the GOP
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
11:23 am
via Twitter:
BBC reports conditions for a ceasefire:
1. No fire from Gaza including small arms
2. Hamas fighters must be stopped from travelling to the Sinai to carry out attacks against Israel at the Sinai/Israel border
3. Hamas mustnt be able to rearm. International & regional actors needed for this (”Egypt can play a key role in bringing about ceasefire.”)
4. A ceasefire must not simple be a “time-out” for Hamas, it must be an extended period of quiet for Southern Israel.
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
11:23 am
Well that is easy: Israel wants to live in peace and the Palestinians want Israel “pushed into the sea” and all Jews dead.
Nobody who can dress themselves and cross the street safely could possibly be this stupid.
weetamoe
November 19th, 2012
11:24 am
To the coy little attempts by some to inject racism (again and again) into any discussion that might include criticism of Obama–he, you, and the rest of us know that he is biracial. So what? More to the point, the editor of al jazeera on PBS (and I suppose he has somehow become far right as well) claims that the Middle East is crying out for US leadership, but there has been none for the past four years. Maybe Jimmy Carter will volunteer his service, since he had some success with Egypt at one time.
bman.
November 19th, 2012
11:24 am
These people are still fighting one another? If you have to fight, fight to win & get it over with…
Welcome to the Occupation
November 19th, 2012
11:24 am
middle of the road: “Well that is easy: Israel wants to live in peace and the Palestinians want Israel “pushed into the sea” and all Jews dead.”
This weekend the son of Ariel Sharon said this about what to do with Gaza:
“We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza.”
josef
November 19th, 2012
11:27 am
Let’s face up to one thing for starters. Nobody from the Ottomans forward have given a hoot in hell about the Palestinians. If Israel had not taken over the West Bank in 1967, Jordan would be doing much the same thing with them. From the time of the Samaritans they’ve been unloved, unwanted and uncared for, a convenient pawn. Egypt and Lebanon have done their fair share in locking them into ghettoes/DP camps.
The only remotely possible “solution” is the two-state solution. And unlike the more sanguine, I don’t think it’s dead.
josef
November 19th, 2012
11:28 am
USinUK
“…then you haven’t been reading the posts.”
I have been, and I tend to agree with Frog,,,
willie lynch
November 19th, 2012
11:29 am
Why are so many American politicians so eager to sound more pro-Israeli than even some Israelis?
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
11:30 am
Follow this guy for inside Gaza real time updates:
https://twitter.com/pdanahar
BBC Middle Easy Bureau Cheif
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
11:30 am
USinUK
Exactly what control does the Israeli government exert over settlements?
I remember the Israelis going into some settlements and destroying them
and that authority was questioned.
As to ghettos, does the Israeli government force the Palestiinians
to live in certain areas or is that a result of like living with like?
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
11:30 am
East
dammit
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
11:30 am
“Nobody who can dress themselves and cross the street safely could possibly be this stupid.”
all evidence to the contrary
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
11:32 am
barking – “As to ghettos, does the Israeli government force the Palestiinians
to live in certain areas or is that a result of like living with like?”
I suggest you do a little research to what life is like behind the “peace wall” and do a little comparing / contrasting what it was like before the wall was constructed an what it is like now
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
11:33 am
josef – who here has said ANYthing about “I’m against Israel because the GOP is for them”???
Soothsayer
November 19th, 2012
11:35 am
Whassup with these crazy Palestinians anyway? Jews steal their land, their homes, and their livelihoods and force-march them in the blazing desert heat to a tiny ghetto.
Then, the send tanks into Gaza on November 8th that killed a Palestinian child, then 2 days later fire a number of shells into Gaza killing a 4 civilians and wounding 38 others.
Finally, they assassinate Hamas military commander Ahmed Jabari who was killed by a missile that was followed by an extensive bombing campaign.
All this to inflame Hamas into retaliating with longer range rockets. It just doesn’t make any sense that these crazy Palestinians would fire rockets into Israel (Palestine). What’s wrong with them?
Jefferson
November 19th, 2012
11:36 am
If only there were more rich people Romney could have won with his gifts to them, what was he thinking ? knuck,knuck.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
11:37 am
Sooth – 11:35 – evidently, that translates into “the GOP likes them so I’m agin’ em”
willie lynch
November 19th, 2012
11:37 am
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
11:30 am
There has been a steady erosion of the land (due to increased settlement establishment) available for Palestinians to inhabit in the occupied territory. This is far from “like living with like”.
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
11:37 am
USinUK
Are the Palestinians forced to live on either side of the peace wall
by the Israeli government?
bman.
November 19th, 2012
11:37 am
“who here has said ANYthing about “I’m against Israel because the GOP is for them”???”
other than sports and music, liberals and conservatives agree on absolutely nothing. It’s actually sort of amazing how brainwashed Americans are…
josef
November 19th, 2012
11:37 am
FROG
The West Bank Palestinians and the Gazans are pretty much confined to the territories. It is more apartheid than ghetto. They are not Israeli citizens and do not enjoy the freedom of movement and residence as do the Israeli citizen arab/Palestinians. The Israeli government has been selective in the matter of settlements. Some it wants, some it doesn’t. You pretty much have to have Jerusalem’s permission to establish a settlement. The ones they closed are, essentially, wild-cat settlements.
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2012
11:38 am
“More to the point, the editor of al jazeera on PBS (and I suppose he has somehow become far right as well) claims that the Middle East is crying out for US leadership”
Stop me before I kill someone? “US leadership” is just a red herring…it’s the cry of out of control children. They’re adults, no “leadership” is going to stop either side until they CHOOSE to stop.
alex
November 19th, 2012
11:39 am
@RF we are getting OLD!! (but I do want a pink pig sticker(,as I remember they were made out of a fabric)
middle of the road
November 19th, 2012
11:39 am
“Nobody who can dress themselves and cross the street safely could possibly be this stupid.”
That’s right, I remember now. Israel initiated the Six Day War to expand her lands so that more Jews could immigrate. Then they have been sending their spies into the Gaza Strip to secretly fire rockets at themselves so they can retaliate against the Palestinians.
We all know that if Israel gave Palestinians the “right of return” and let go of the Gaza Strip, that peace and harmony would break out in the region and Jews and Arabs would “live together in perfect harmony”.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
11:39 am
other than sports and music, liberals and conservatives agree on absolutely nothing.
There’s your sign.
josef
November 19th, 2012
11:40 am
USinUK
Which is why I said, I TEND to agree with Frog,,,tend being the operative word…based more in tone than in definitive substance…
getalife
November 19th, 2012
11:40 am
Our President is in Asia pimping democracy.
Asian spring if you will.
He is staying out of it like he should.
East Lake Ira
November 19th, 2012
11:40 am
Jimmy Carter was/is right.
Arabs in Isreal live under apartheid.
It is an evil and pernicious truth.
Gaza and the West Bank are two completely different realities.
Stevie Ray
November 19th, 2012
11:41 am
Not Blind
November 19th, 2012
11:15 am
So the brain stretching truth is that Israel can do no wrong….?
That’s really mind stretching…20 years ago, like most, I completely sided with Zionists…20 years later, they are still killing each others kids…what exactly should the palestinians do about the living conditions?
The zionists simply have no interest in assimilation and never will…as long as the palesinians feel screwed with their lot with no hope of improvement, this will continue…
I say let the Zionists invade Gaza and push the Palestinians to move poverty camps…then we will see what exactly the balance of the ME responds..
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
11:41 am
middle of the road @ 11.39, you know what you can do with your straw men.
josef
November 19th, 2012
11:42 am
FROG
“Are the Palestinians forced to live on either side of the peace wall
by the Israeli government?”
Yes…those who are not citizens of the state of Israel…
Look before I leap...
November 19th, 2012
11:43 am
Can’t help but wonder how some residents of Georgia would feel if the UN stepped in and decided that the Croatian refugees deserved a new home and decided that NW Georgia was just right.
Then all existing residents would be herded into Douglas county and told to stay put.
Might not the Georgia residents be a tad miffed?
Might not they have a right to be miffed?
Soothsayer
November 19th, 2012
11:43 am
What we have here is the same for any crime for which punishment is denied. The aggrieved never forget and forever seek revenge. The Israel/Palestine issue is no different. The Jews stole Palestine. The Palestinians have been harassed and intimidated ever since. They will never “lay down” and “play nice.”
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 19th, 2012
11:45 am
Oops, missed this:
Uh-oh my age is showing…I remember that!! Do you remember the kids’ shopping they had too where salespeople actually helped the kids buy presents? I remember the train going around the base of the tree. You gotta admit that was pretty cool too.
Yep, I remember all of that. My mom still recounts (annually) about a gift that I got for her through the aid of a salesperson. She probably remembers the incident because she had to let me go alone and it was the first time that happened.
alex
November 19th, 2012
11:46 am
@ joseph, thanks for the info…
Jefferson, I would like a “gift” from Obama: I would like the Bond which I had from GM to be paid off as it should have been when GM was takine into “bankruptcy” this is actually not a gift as I “loaned” this money( a BOND), but I’ll take whatever I can get….. mabye it’ll arrive from Santa Claus, along with my Tax raise,,,HO! HO! HO!
barking frog
November 19th, 2012
11:46 am
josef
Then it seems the Israelis enforce their laws more than we do as to
non citizens but their immigrants often react differently than ours.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 19th, 2012
11:47 am
“Are the Palestinians forced to live on either side of the peace wall by the Israeli government?”
considering Israel confiscated their land … yes.
and see josef’s post above.
moonbat betty
November 19th, 2012
11:48 am
Can we move the Palestinians to Detroit?
Erwin's cat
November 19th, 2012
11:49 am
josef – I appreciate you insight..Thanks
getalife
November 19th, 2012
11:49 am
alex,
ODS much?
It is not about our President.
josef
November 19th, 2012
11:49 am
SOOTH
Oh, stop the Trail of Crocodile Tears horse manure…You’re sittin’ fat and sassy on Cherokee land and I don’t see you giving up your deed for the right of return…and if you are, I got somebody ready to take you up on the deal…