Obama holds upper hand in budget confrontation
The reputations of pollsters Rasmussen and Gallup took a deserved beating in the 2012 election, but if nothing else they are still valuable when judged relative to themselves. Rasmussen, for example, now reports that President Obama’s job approval rating among likely voters is at 55 percent, his highest level in a Rasmussen poll since June 2009.
Gallup reports similar numbers:
That would seem to suggest that Republican denials notwithstanding, President Obama comes into negotiations on the so-called fiscal cliff with a considerable amount of leverage. Newly released numbers from a Washington Post/Pew Center poll confirm that assessment:
Given that reality, it’ll be interesting to see the outcome of today’s secret ballot among House Republicans, who will be asked to elect a new chairman of the House Republican Conference. As we reported Monday, House Speaker John Boehner has thrown his support behind Cathy McMorris Rodgers, who qualifies as a moderate, if only within the very narrowly conservative House GOP caucus. If elected, she would also become the only woman in the House GOP leadership, which currently has no women holding any of the 21 House committee chairmanships.
However, those on the more conservative end of the very conservative GOP caucus are rallying behind Georgia’s own Tom Price. That includes House Budget chair Paul Ryan, fresh off his experience on the losing end of the presidential race.
A Price victory would constitute a pretty serious setback for Boehner and would indicate that when the time comes, the speaker would not be able to deliver GOP votes for the budget compromise that will be needed. It would also suggest that House Republicans have not yet learned the necessary lessons of the 2012 election, including the dangers of extremism and the wisdom of outreach to female voters.
If so, they are courting yet another reminder.
– Jay Bookman
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642 comments Add your comment
Mick
November 14th, 2012
9:17 am
Let’s go off the “fiscal curb” and see what happens…
oops
November 14th, 2012
9:18 am
meh.
polls won’t matter for 24 more months.
zzzzzz
oops
November 14th, 2012
9:20 am
Mick 9:17 – nice demonstration of how libs are as loco at the right wing-nuts
oops
November 14th, 2012
9:21 am
5% GDP contraction from the cliff.
Obama and Congress will both be to blame if we go over.
oops
November 14th, 2012
9:23 am
Ryan splits with GOP leadership
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83761.html?hp=l2
Mick
November 14th, 2012
9:25 am
oops
The sky will not fall chicken little, it’s all about getting the best policy in place and has nothing to do with loco – which is synonymous with republican these days…
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
9:25 am
Mick
I agree with you on this..won’t happen as my money is on the obligatory kicking of the can down the road or the cliff becoming reality but only for a short time to give perception that that will swing the pedulum in terms of balance more toward GOP
Despite what these BS polls say…one month of approval increase certainly isn’t noteworthy…since in another month it can plummet…I think this is a meaningless poll…of course whomever enjoys popularity gets a rise….
Welcome to the Occupation
November 14th, 2012
9:28 am
Seriously, Jay, no discussion of Obama’s likely role in carrying out the decisive dismantling of the New Deal? A Democratic president putting an axe to the root of the New Deal?
Like most liberals, you seem to take it as a foregone conclusion that Obama is in fundamental disagreement with the Republicans over the cuts when in fact he is really in line with them, just with minor disagreements over degrees.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 14th, 2012
9:29 am
Obama holds upper hand in budget confrontation,
but the back hand is what counts.
.
The people are speaking.
200 million Americans not voting and secesh-fever in the air.
.
It don’t bode pretty.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
9:29 am
So, the follow up question is … if Ryan is putting all his support behind Price and Rodgers wins anyway, does that mean we can never hear from that self-serving twit, Paul Ryan (who couldn’t even win his own state) ever again???
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 14th, 2012
9:30 am
Forward Liberty!
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
9:30 am
it’ll be interesting to see the outcome of today’s secret ballot among House Republicans, who will be asked to elect a new chairman of the House Republican Conference
at the risk of being nitpicky, I could’ve sworn that quite a few conservatives expressed some concern about certain legislative activities being conducted without complete transparency, few years back, and blaming that on the President.
Shouldn’t they be clamoring to know who voted for whom, this time around?
Doggone/GA
November 14th, 2012
9:30 am
“Seriously, Jay, no discussion of Obama’s likely role in carrying out the decisive dismantling of the New Deal? A Democratic president putting an axe to the root of the New Deal?”
blogspot.com is ready when you are
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
9:31 am
secesh-fever in the air.
Heywould, you’ll be staring at some other shiny object next week.
Georgia
November 14th, 2012
9:32 am
They can only kick the can down the road. That’s all they ever do. Is that the same as printing money? Or is that just borrowing more? I don’t know.
Cherokee
November 14th, 2012
9:33 am
Mick is correct – let it happen. The sane people – in other words, anyone other than the Tom Prices of the world – will then be able to come back in January and restore most of the tax cuts and fix the tax code. Assuming they handle it fairly soon, there won’t be any damage to the economy.
Jay
November 14th, 2012
9:33 am
USinUK, Romney/Ryan not only lost in Wisconsin, it lost in Ryan’s own congressional district as well.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
9:34 am
It would also suggest that House Republicans have not yet learned the necessary lessons of the 2012 election, including the dangers of extremism and the wisdom of outreach to female voters.
Ya think?
I believe it will take another two or three more presidential beat downs – like the last two – before we see any movement back to the reasoned and reasonable center by the xenophobic, right wing fanatics that run the Lily White Party…
Welcome to the Occupation
November 14th, 2012
9:35 am
Doggone/GA,
what are you talking about, this is blogspot dude.
Michael
November 14th, 2012
9:37 am
Get the deal done and no games. Of course Grover and the Tea Party might not like compromise and will send you packing if your a Repulican. Lets see if you have any courage!
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
9:38 am
Was checking out the Omaha World Herald and there are even scumbag would-be secessionists in Nebraska! Granted, it is about 50 people probably, but still!
Republican insanity rules the day out there on the Tea Flavored traitor fringe…
alex
November 14th, 2012
9:38 am
call me simple ( my children do) , but will someone please read the X -axis on the diagram which I suspect is a timeline and tell me how someone understands it…….. Stats, the bane of my existence…..
larry
November 14th, 2012
9:39 am
USinUK, Romney/Ryan not only lost in Wisconsin, it lost in Ryan’s own congressional district as well.
But they , in turn, voted for him to back to Washington as a congressman.
Talk about your mixed messages.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 14th, 2012
9:39 am
“Obama holds upper hand in budget confrontation”
Most certainly, he laid the trap for the GOP and they stepped in it.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
9:39 am
To our elected leaders,
Lower the taxes on wages/earned income.
Increase the taxes on wealth/unearned income.
Thank you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 14th, 2012
9:39 am
Do the outgoing members of the House get to vote or do the new members (after last Tuesday) get to vote?
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
9:40 am
blogspot.com is ready when you are
While I was inclined to lean in that direction upon first seeing Occupation @ 9.28–no. It IS on topic, actually. We’re talking about the sort of power that Obama, Reid and Pelosi have to wield and yes, it should matter to ordinary Americans that once again, the Dems look like they’re starting their negotiations from a surrender-monkey position.
For instance, I am not happy with the line in the sand being drawn at getting tip money from billionaires. Whoop de freekin’ do. The line in the sand should be that we are flat out not going to reduce Medicare or Social Security benefits, period, end of frickin’ story. And Obama isn’t doing that.
Get the KY ready, buy a larger size this time
November 14th, 2012
9:40 am
I accidentally found and posted on this site recently but after the news this am, I had to get Libs prospective.
News has confirmed that we now have a streak going. 5 straight years of 1 Trillion dollar deficit!!!!!!!
Now President Obama wants to double the tax amount previous to his comments per election. As a nurse, you may want to purchase a larger size of KY jelly to prevent the insertion as painless as possible.
arnold
November 14th, 2012
9:40 am
The secessionists are just another name for birthers.
fedup
November 14th, 2012
9:40 am
I am pulling for Price to win. Crybaby Boehner lookout the nuts are coming after you.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 14th, 2012
9:40 am
However, those on the more conservative end of the very conservative GOP caucus are rallying behind Georgia’s own Tom Price. That includes House Budget chair Paul Ryan, fresh off his experience on the losing end of the presidential race.
Not sure that I’d wanna be backed by a loser. Kiss of death.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
meh.
polls won’t matter for 24 more months.
zzzzzz
Awwwwwww, isn’t that just precious.
Our wittle bloomberg troll has a new sock-puppet.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
9:41 am
“The people are speaking. 200 million Americans not voting and secesh-fever in the air.”
um. if people aren’t voting, then they are NOT speaking.
secesh fever??? more like secesh delerium. and it’ll end as pretty.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
9:41 am
Finn, members must be sworn in before they can vote. So only the current members of the House vote.
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
9:41 am
Michael,
The best news to come out of election is that (hopefully) the far right fringe (tea party, norquist, evangelicals) will be the ones rendered much less relevant…the only thing as bad as a true neo-con is a progressive liberal…both create a reality that they desire as opposed to one that exists…
Mick
November 14th, 2012
9:43 am
stands
I agree, obama’s negotiating skills are poor, did he not learn? Don’t want to jump the gun, lets see how it plays out, he holds the best cards as of now…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
9:43 am
secesh delerium — the online petitions do not track the state where the person actually is when signing or if they are using real names (and signing up repetitively). In simple words, they are not votes, merely whining by some
larry
November 14th, 2012
9:44 am
The line in the sand should be that we are flat out not going to reduce Medicare or Social Security benefits, period, end of frickin’ story. And Obama isn’t doing that
I agree. I mean the age at which you can recieve full benefits should not budge. Who’s going to hire a 67 year old machinist after his plant closes ?
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
9:44 am
USNUK
Seems to me those 200 million not voting are speaking and speaking loudly…they don’t think it matters and I have no reason to argue against that posture…most view and will view the government as a bunch of self serving wealthy folks…I think that is accurate….money, relection…all that matters…
Sometimes silence is the loudest voice…
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
9:44 am
Romney/Ryan not only lost in Wisconsin, it lost in Ryan’s own congressional district as well.
and therein lies my frustration. If Team Obama is really half the badass sociamalist crusaders they’d like us to believe, they’d be making very serious noises about going into districts like Ryan’s and running attack ads NOW, accusing these congressmen of cutting your Medicare and Social Security.
Now. Not later. Be willing to poison the well and back it up if those jerks continue to cry “but but Simpson Bowles! you promised you’d play nice and corporatist!”
SBinf
November 14th, 2012
9:45 am
“200 million Americans not voting and secesh-fever in the air.”
Right, the tens of millions of infants, children, toddlers, and teenagers didn’t vote. That’s really saying something!
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
9:45 am
those 200 million not voting
moochers.
Jm
November 14th, 2012
9:45 am
“durbin: mandate to tax the wealthy”
What a bunch of BS democrats are feeding their followers.
To be clear, democrats are proposing raising taxes on those who work for a living and make money via labor.
Obviously the wealthy make money mostly from capital.
And Obama is exacerbating bad policy by continuing to maintain differential tax rates between labor and capital.
Obama, one of the dumbest presidents ever.
fedup
November 14th, 2012
9:46 am
Jay, did Ryan run unopposed in his district?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 14th, 2012
9:46 am
Well, I expect they’ll pick this RINO for the post. When what we need is a
maniacgood solid Conservative Republican for that spot. Somebody that’s willing to help us Succeed from this librul guvmint and let us form our own guvmint where’s there’s no welfare or unemployment benefits and the bottom 90% pay 90% of the taxes. Fair is fair.Just as long as I can take my Medicare and my share of the money for roads and water and courts and police with me. I mean, we want to Succeed from this Communist Kenyan Dictatorship, but we ain’t nuts.
It’s Hump Day everybody and that wind will pretty near cut you in half if you’re crazy enough to get out in it. Have a good one.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
9:46 am
I’m going to bring up my idea again; I’ve gotten some positive feedback on it from cons on the board, but also an almost-universal ‘Congress would never go for it’ response, too. Then again, we seem to be in uncharted waters, so perhaps we should think outside the box a bit.
First, we set spending level *ceilings* on all Federal line items. Just for the sake of argument, I’m going to propose FY 2012 as the baseline. Spending is locked in at or below this level, and *cannot* by law exceed that level without Congressional approval.
Next. we develop and execute a revenue-positive plan (generating more revenue than the baseline budget spends), BUT we earmark the surplus for debt reduction ONLY. The revenue can come from changes in the tax code and/or spending cuts, as mutually agreed on.
However, once spending is cut in a given area, the new budget figure in that area becomes the new baseline — and you can’t *increase* spending past that level in subsequent budgets.
I did have one suggestion (on another blog) that I think had some merit; the suggestion was that 20-25% of the revenue realized from budget cuts ONLY (not from tax increases) *could* be used to increase spending in *existing* programs, but not on new ones. Example: $100B is cut from the Defense budget. $20-$25B of that could then be reallocated to existing programs, such as bridge and highway maintenance, unemployment insurance, border security, etc.
We’ve got to get revenue-positive, and tax cuts alone won’t accomplish that. My idea combines revenue increases with spending cuts and puts a barrier up to (most) new or increased spending. Thoughts and ideas for improvement?
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
9:46 am
What’s this crap about succession? Talk about sore losers wanting to take their ball home…..we could split up just like Yugoslavia and have all those doomsday preppers able to actual recognize their dreams…
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
9:47 am
Republican Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, the only incumbent senator to lose re-election this fall, is urging the GOP to make a stronger push for support from women, minorities and moderates like himself.
Returning to the Senate for the first session since last week’s election, Brown said Tuesday that he hopes Republicans in the future will be a more tolerant, open-minded party.
Brown says moderates such as himself and retiring GOP Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine are a vanishing breed in Washington, despite sometimes playing a key role in bridging the partisan divide.
Brown lost to consumer advocate Elizabeth Warren in one of the 2012 election’s marquee races.
TBone
November 14th, 2012
9:47 am
Who needs a budget? Obviously Harry Reid or Obama doesn’t think it is important. Just keep upping the debt limit until we go flying off the cliff. How many votes has Obama gotten from the budgets he has submitted?
Mick
November 14th, 2012
9:48 am
**Obama, one of the dumbest presidents ever**
I think the previous guy has him beat by a country mile…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 14th, 2012
9:48 am
The Birthers and their off-spring hate Obama not because of where he was born but because he was born here. His very existence illustrates the changing demographics of the USA and its move away from being a ‘white republic’ governed by a broad ‘white’ front.
off-topic but interesting take on things
http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/how-left-can-become-true-political-force-be-reckoned
Welcome to the Occupation
November 14th, 2012
9:48 am
Well said, decibels.
“Whoop de freekin’ do. The line in the sand should be that we are flat out not going to reduce Medicare or Social Security benefits, period, end of frickin’ story”
Obama has this extremely weird — diseased almost — fixation on some abstract notion of “balance” that is severed and cut out of any historical context.
It’s STUPID to say, let’s have a “balanced” approach where you look ahistorically at a snapshot of the present moment with big capital and the wealthy arrayed on one side and the bulk of the working population (we’ll leave out the truly poor for the moment) on the other and say BOTH of these sides need to give up a pound of flesh in the present deal.
It overlooks (or willfully suppresses, maybe) the fact that productivity has been steadily rising since the 1980s as wages have stagnated. Then you look at the steady dismantling of the safety net more broadly and it becomes clear that the middle class has ALREADY been giving something up vis-a-vis the wealthy for two decades. So it makes no sense to say they need to START doing something they’ve already been doing for a long time.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
9:48 am
I agree, obama’s negotiating skills are poor,
his negotiating skills are FINE. His problem is, is that he really IS a centrist. He really IS willing to make Granny suffer a bit so that he can work out a deal wherein Mitt Romney continues enjoy tax breaks.
It’s not his granny after all.
So, that’s why we can’t let people like Jay overlook this. That’s why “Welcome to the Occupation”’s post @ 9.28 couldn’t be more ON-topic.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
9:48 am
alex — “will someone please read the X -axis on the diagram which I suspect is a timeline and tell me how someone understands it…….. Stats, the bane of my existence…..”
Yes, it’s a timeline covering most of 2012.
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
9:48 am
Jay, evidently approves of those trillion dollar deficits, high unemployment and low GDP growth. It helps to get more and more people on government assistance programs and beholden to an ever increasing socialist government embraced by Democrats. Of course as we continue this economic slide you have to wonder how Obama’s approval can continue to avoid seriously sliding with it. Of course Jay probably has a chart, which shows that to be an impossibility because people will be too dependent on government to face the reality of a Greece like future for the United States.
SBinf
November 14th, 2012
9:48 am
Republicans have zero leverage in this debate. If they do nothing, taxes increase and defense spending is cut. They’re bluffing, not unlike the way they behaved during the last months of the campaign, insisting Romney was winning, with the vain hope that reality would mirror their own opinions.
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
9:49 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0WdJx-Wkw
Let ‘em crash…
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
9:50 am
F. McCool — “Do the outgoing members of the House get to vote or do the new members (after last Tuesday) get to vote?”
I think it would depend on when the package came up for a vote. The new members aren’t seated until (IIRC) 3 JAN.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
9:50 am
Obama has this extremely weird — diseased almost — fixation on some abstract notion of “balance” that is severed and cut out of any historical context.
I would implore everyone to read “The Audacity of Hope.” None of this should come as any surprise. He takes the notion of being taken out of his comfort zone and seeing the other guy’s side of things to what appears to be an unhealthy… extreme. Yes, that’s the term. Extreme.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
9:50 am
Jay – 9:33 – which begs the question … why are we still talking about him? when will the GOP shove that stink in rubbish heap?
“USinUK, Romney/Ryan not only lost in Wisconsin, it lost in Ryan’s own congressional district as well.
But they , in turn, voted for him to back to Washington as a congressman. ”
all that does is make me want to know who was running against him?
indigo
November 14th, 2012
9:50 am
If current Republicans had any history of reasonable and responsible political behavior, I might guess they would act in a prudent manner and negotiate a fair settlement with Obama.
Unfortunately, their history is the exact opposite so, anything may happen.
SBinf
November 14th, 2012
9:51 am
“Jay, evidently approves of those trillion dollar deficits, high unemployment and low GDP growth.”
The entire GOP establishment approved of trillion dollar deficits….until Obama entered office. That’s strange, isn’t it?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
9:51 am
If Obama is so dumb, then apparently the GOP can’t even tie its shoes without help.
Welcome to your Republican Dark Ages. (Again.)
Jm
November 14th, 2012
9:51 am
Oh, and Obama is also being dumb for doing the opposite of Clinton’s suggestion
Broaden the base, lower the rate.
Obama’s policies are all wrong.
One day things will change. But I wont be waiting.
Ben
November 14th, 2012
9:51 am
Obama just has to make things look ok for four more years, then the next President, likely a Republican, will end up having to deal with the problems that result, and of course the media will blame it on the GOP instead of on Obama. Everything good is because of Obama, everything bad is someone else’s fault.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 14th, 2012
9:52 am
Republican Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, the only incumbent senator to lose re-election this fall, is urging the GOP to make a stronger push for support from women, minorities and moderates like himself.
Well, we can get the women’s vote right now. Just pass a law that gives every woman new microwaves and scrubbing tools and frying pans and stuff like that. Us men know what women want.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
9:52 am
“Jay, evidently approves of those trillion dollar deficits, high unemployment and low GDP growth.”
assumes facts not in evidence.
Mick
November 14th, 2012
9:53 am
**which shows that to be an impossibility because people will be too dependent on government to face the reality of a Greece like future for the United States**
Another day, another greece comparison; The worlds largest economy, the worlds reserve currency, is not, will not, ever be like greece, get it???
They BOTH suck
November 14th, 2012
9:53 am
“Obama, one of the dumbest presidents ever.”
Translation: My whining throttle is still stuck & wide open.
Jm: Another 74k Romney signs or so in FL and your prediction might have come to fruition. Maybe you didn’t see as many signs as you thought. Too much “rum punch”?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 14th, 2012
9:53 am
Recon wrote: the reality of a Greece like future for the United States
Recon, you really might want to read up on what the whole “Greece” thing is really about. Turn off Fox News and listen to a knowledgeable source for a change.
Mr. Snarky
November 14th, 2012
9:53 am
The economy doesn’t need the repubs undermining it further. Here’s hoping that cooler heads prevail and the Tea Party is over.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
9:53 am
I do love this melodramatic “cliff” analogy being spouted ad nauseum by the fiscally irresponsible.
Reminds me of the good old days…
This sucker could go down. ~George W. Bush, September 2008
JKL2
November 14th, 2012
9:53 am
obama strategy: do nothing then blame the Republicans for it.
He is the master! All he needs now is a willing media to push his non-agenda. (That’s your cue Jay)
Morality?
November 14th, 2012
9:54 am
Jay did you purposely leave out one group on your graph – Dems in Congress? Obama has upper hand? So much for compromise. PARTY LOYALISTS rule the Dems & Repubs in Congress. What we need is USA loyalists that put country 1st over party loyalty. TERM LIMITS and a BALANCED BUDGET amendment to the Constitution……… It is time for a 3rd party that puts USA 1st and Party 2nd.
They BOTH suck
November 14th, 2012
9:55 am
There will be a deal where cuts are made and some taxes are raised to some degree or another.
Both the far right and left will not like it, but it is going to happen.
Probably will not be the best deal but a deal nevertheless.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
9:56 am
M. Snarky — “The economy doesn’t need the repubs undermining it further. Here’s hoping that cooler heads prevail and the Tea Party is over.”
That seemed to be more Diet Snark than regular Mr. Snark. I much prefer the full-calorie obloquy and scorn you used to dispense.
indigo
November 14th, 2012
9:56 am
Redneck – 9:52
Since Republicans want to keep them barefoot as well, don’t forget lotion for their feet.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
9:57 am
“Translation: My whining throttle is still stuck & wide open. ”
when will the frickin engine FLOOD, already …
They BOTH suck
November 14th, 2012
9:58 am
Recon
Jay did cite those two pollsters that you claimed were the most accurate.
Simple Truths
November 14th, 2012
9:58 am
Redneck,
If you “Succeed”, who keeps the pork rinds?
Jm
November 14th, 2012
9:59 am
Tbs
I never predicted Romney would win, or if I did, I said it would be very close
Stick to describing your own views
Morality?
November 14th, 2012
9:59 am
Congresses plan? To get reelected and feed at the gub’ment trough. When are we going to get a plan for our country to restore our economy? When are we going to get a budget plan? If you want to blame someone blame the brain dead zombies that vote Obama and keep the do nothing Congress in place. Blame those in charge : Nanny Pelosi, Hairy Wed
tm
November 14th, 2012
9:59 am
AJC shows its class with the photo at the top of the web site. Guess they couldn’t find one that wasn’t taken on a cold day.
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:00 am
Some on here must have got their diploma’s out of cereal boxes. They have no concept of basic economics.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:00 am
…then the next President, likely a Republican…
HUH????
The odds are NOT getting better for the Insular Party.
To paraphrase Clarence Darrow, we have the aim of keeping bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the government of the United States.
ex-pat, don’t know, but it is likely that the GOP gas guzzler is gonna blow a gasket soon!
alex
November 14th, 2012
10:00 am
@ joe- thanks. Still reading over another one of your ideas….
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
10:00 am
obama strategy: do nothing then blame the Republicans for it.
that’ll work. I am fine and dandy with that strategery.
They BOTH suck
November 14th, 2012
10:01 am
Jm
You did claim Romney would win FL. And if you noticed I mentioned FL and not one other state or the election as a whole, but keeping whining. No one is surprised
Cosby
November 14th, 2012
10:02 am
It would be nice to see the blame game end, to see the Obama maniacs act like adults and get to serious talks regarding the fiscal cliff. the one liner – “Tax the Rich” is getting old. I will not sign anytinng unless it taxes the rich..well, from all the financial gurus + the CBO, if you took everything from the so called rich, the Fed Gov’t would last about 1 month. I do not give a rats rear end on what the polls say, who has the upper hand on a popular vote..but if a sensable solution is not reached, every damn person in the USA, citizen or not, will pay a hefty price. Tax the rich..if that is all this idiot has to say about the financial situation of the USA, then the USA is done for! How stupid are the citizens and the media…damn it, damn it all
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:02 am
I expect the tax rates will not change, but a lot of deductions/loopholes will be eliminated, and the result will be increased federal revenues. And there will be spending cuts including a spending cut in the defense budget.
If no deal is reached, then we are looking at another recession sometime next year.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:03 am
I said it would be very close.
And it was.
62 – 38. Obama.
Morality, your ongoing strategery of calling American voters stupid, lazy, etc is really working out great for you!
Keep up the good work!
Morality?
November 14th, 2012
10:03 am
Odds in Vegas on the Fed Debt being ONE CENT (or more) lower at the end of Obama’s 2nd term than it is on November 14, 2012? 16,000,000,000,000 + to ONE.
Logical Dude
November 14th, 2012
10:03 am
ZOMG, the election is over, and we get ANOTHER POLL!!!??!!1111!!!
Ok, maybe I should read the article now.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
10:03 am
They have no concept of basic economics.
oh, do educate me. Tell me about checkbooks and utility bills and such and how that is JUST LIKE running an industrialized nation that can invade other countries, print its own money, squeeze trading partners…
that never gets old.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:05 am
alex — “@ joe- thanks. Still reading over another one of your ideas….”
A frequent conservative objection (on the previous occasions I had posted my idea) was ‘no way, you Demoncraps will just spend any extra tax money you get your claws on.’ So the notion of *locking in* spending levels and only allowing them to ratchet DOWN (unless Congress explicitly permitted an increase) was born.
I do think that we need to focus any revenue surpluses on debt reduction and not on tax cuts any longer.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:05 am
obama strategy: do nothing then blame the Republicans for it
_______
Not so. Obama has put some good deals on the table, but the GOP has walked away and left them there.
Obama and JB had a deal worked out, and John couldn’t sell it to the GOP right wing.
Hope they will wake up now that we are looking at a cliff.
mm
November 14th, 2012
10:05 am
Bobby Jindal -
“We’ve got to make sure that we are not the party of big business, big banks, big Wall Street bailouts, big corporate loopholes, big anything, We cannot be, we must not be, the party that simply protects the rich so they get to keep their toys.”
“We’ve also had enough of this dumbed-down conservatism. We need to stop being simplistic, we need to trust the intelligence of the American people and we need to stop insulting the intelligence of the voters.”
Easier said than done, Bobby.
ByteMe - Got ilk?
November 14th, 2012
10:06 am
Paul Ryan won his seat by 42,000 votes (a little over 350,000 cast) over Rob Zerban.
Lord Help Us
November 14th, 2012
10:06 am
‘They have no concept of basic economics.’
‘Reagan taught us deficits don’t matter’
alex
November 14th, 2012
10:07 am
Joe, this multivariate equation is so difficult( stats-again) that it’s difficult to have a reasonable idea that “your” plan will work, then again it may,so give it a run. I am drawn to the health care issues as every year, congress has to revisit cuts or increase the money going to hospitals /providers(hate that term), etc. Every year congress goes ahead and spends more money, over-riding it’s previous rules…..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:08 am
Recon — ” They have no concept of basic economics.”
Yeah, you might have a point if President Bush hadn’t gone overlimit on our national Chinese Express credit card.
Mr. Snarky
November 14th, 2012
10:09 am
Joe – I save my scorn for overt idiocy and campaign BS. The economy is real.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:09 am
“I never predicted Romney would win, or if I did, I said it would be very close ”
laugh effing RIOT …
you loved pointing out how Romney was at the top of every Google search
how well Romney was doing in the polls
how the economy was going to bury Obama
how unemployment was going to bury Obama
how Benghazi was going to bury obama
but noooooo … you never predicted Romney would win.
WHAT a load of bollocks.
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:09 am
TBS,
Actually Rasmussen and Gallup (although Gallup some how got way off track about a week before the election) both had it close nationally which it turned out to be. They and many other polls blew it in the battleground states by not seeing the superiority of the Democrats ground game. I know you lefties want to believe Obama has a mandate but I think your wrong and you seem to be overlooking the serious condition of our economy, sooner or later it has to effect government social programs many are getting too dependent on.
Morality?
November 14th, 2012
10:10 am
Never called voters lazy – you said that. Stupid – a lot of that out there – on both sides. If you voted Obama you are gullible. Dems are in charge – no on to blame but the Dems if the Fed Debt is higher when Hussein leaves office than it is today. T
JKL2
November 14th, 2012
10:10 am
stands- obama strategy: do nothing then blame the Republicans for it. that’ll work. I am fine and dandy with that strategery.
Four more years of “It’s Bush’s fault”. The American people have spoken, and apparently they actually are that dumb.
How do you jump off the Fiscal Cliff?
Forward!
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:10 am
There will be a deal where cuts are made and some taxes are raised to some degree or another
________
What are the odds in Vegas on that happening.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 14th, 2012
10:11 am
The absolute least that the no-loads in Washington could do would be to draft some sort of treaty where global EVERYBODY would agree to take at least 4 zeros off of everyone’s respective debt figure….and income figure.
.
Obama should go in demanding 8 zeros off.
.
It would make things simpler from here on out.
.
“If your society’s economic market EVER requires more than 7 exponential base-ten numbers,,,,,,then ye shall know that your economic market is surely dooooomed and that there are myriads of governmental scimmers about”.
Sir Issac Newton 1679
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:11 am
alex — “Joe, this multivariate equation is so difficult( stats-again) that it’s difficult to have a reasonable idea that “your” plan will work, then again it may,so give it a run.”
Kind of you to say.
“I am drawn to the health care issues as every year, congress has to revisit cuts or increase the money going to hospitals /providers(hate that term), etc. Every year congress goes ahead and spends more money, over-riding it’s previous rules…..”
FWIW, I wouldn’t be opposed to requiring a higher voting standard to increase spending levels over the previous year; say 3/4 agreement, or the spending ceiling stays at the previous year’s level?
Even if Congress refused, we would still benefit by having more surplus funds available to retire Federal debt.
Nero
November 14th, 2012
10:12 am
Go over the cliff. Call their bluff. change the dynamic. Sequestration now!! Spread the pain and be done with it.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
10:13 am
the Fed Debt being ONE CENT (or more) lower at the end of Obama’s 2nd term than it is on November 14, 2012?
[...]
Dems are in charge – no on to blame but the Dems if the Fed Debt is higher when Hussein leaves office than it is today.
ok, I’m going to call this “Morality?” guy out.
Please explain how you and your mighty Republicans would EVER, EVER, EVERRRRRRR!!! manage to pay down even a single (1) cent of the OVERALL DEBT between now and January 2017.
Explain how President Mitt, Speaker-for-life Boehner, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch, in this parallel universe of yours, are going to not only bring the budget deficit down to *zero* but run at a *surplus* and then, poof, magically, choose to use that extra moolah you’re collecting to pay down a debt, borrowed at basically zero percent interest.
I am all ears.
Go for it, man. This should be good.
They BOTH suck
November 14th, 2012
10:14 am
Recon
When I say that Obama has a mandate? Please post it.
I have laughed at the fact that Charles Krauthammer said Obama didn’t have a mandate, yet claimed Bush had one in 04 with less EV votes than Obama won last week.
Mandate issue on both sides is overblown. Obama still has a Republican House to deal with.
I already stated that cuts would be included in the deal and I believe that is the right thing to do. Not the same percentage across the board, however I do think cuts should be across the board.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:14 am
” I know you lefties want to believe Obama has a mandate but I think your wrong and you seem to be overlooking the serious condition of our economy, sooner or later it has to effect government social programs many are getting too dependent on.”
so, 300+ electoral votes is a landslide if Romney wins, but NOT if Obama wins.
got it.
thanks for clearing that up.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-election-landslide.jpg
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:15 am
T. Heyward — “The absolute least that the no-loads in Washington could do would be to draft some sort of treaty where global EVERYBODY would agree to take at least 4 zeros off of everyone’s respective debt figure….and income figure.”
Actually, that’s been proposed by some econ bloggers. There’s a very involved chart floating around the intertubes with colored arrows pointing back and forth at the various G-8 nations, demonstrating who owes whom money and how much. Remarkably, most of the nations seem to be owed *roughly* about the same amount as they owe others in the G-8.
That said, I don’t believe China was included in that graphic.
They BOTH suck
November 14th, 2012
10:15 am
EC votes. not EV
excuse me
Ronald Reagan
November 14th, 2012
10:15 am
Only a Liberal writer would produce a supportive article during an administration unraveling. A real Journalist would be digging for the truth & reporting it!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:16 am
““If your society’s economic market EVER requires more than 7 exponential base-ten numbers,,,,,,then ye shall know that your economic market is surely dooooomed and that there are myriads of governmental scimmers about”.
Sir Issac Newton 1679″
yes. 350 years ago – when indoor plumbing was a bucket – they can TOTALLY speak with accuracy about today’s economy.
Nero
November 14th, 2012
10:16 am
This country has a mandate with a cliff. Push it over.
ByteMe - Got ilk?
November 14th, 2012
10:16 am
Actually Rasmussen and Gallup (although Gallup some how got way off track about a week before the election) both had it close nationally which it turned out to be.
Rewrite!!
Both of their tracking polls had Romney winning the national popular vote. Until Sandy caused Gallup to go dark for a week, they had Romney up by 3-5% points. Not even “close”.
BTW, Gallup’s tracking poll has gone into the weeds like that in the past 3 elections, usually starting about 3 weeks from election day. It’s likely because their “likely” turnout model is based on faulty assumptions, but Gallup’s tracking poll is not the “gold standard” that some conservatives made it out to be.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:17 am
“Only a Liberal writer would produce a supportive article during an administration unraveling”
unraveling??? pray-tell …
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:17 am
Go over the cliff. Call their bluff. change the dynamic. Sequestration now!! Spread the pain and be done with it.
______________
That would work. But it would cause a lot of pain for a lot of people. Unnecessary pain.
Grasshopper
November 14th, 2012
10:17 am
Why would “Democrats in Senate” not be an option on that second poll?
They have a place in this financial fiasco as well as Obama and the House Republicans.
atler8
November 14th, 2012
10:17 am
US in UK
As a follow-up to your comment @ 9:29, Ryan not only failed to deliver his home state of Wisconsin, he was trounced emphatically in his home town. Janesville, Wi. went resoundingly for Obama/Biden by a 62% to 37% margin!
I wonder if that margin was inflated by resentment there over the lies Ryan spread, particularly in Ohio, that tried to blame Obama for the closing of the huge Janesville GM plant. The trouble with Ryan’s claims was that the closing was announced around mid-2008 & only a token work force of a few dozen remained there working on a small contract after the general plant closing took effect at Christmas of 2008.
As we know, President Obama was inaugurated in mid January of 2009, obviously well after the closing took place! It would seem that the home town folks know Ryan very well in Janesville!
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:18 am
If you voted Obama you are gullible.
I didn’t.
But what if YOU voted Romney.
You are even more gullible, yes?
The American people have spoken, and apparently they actually are that dumb.
I will never get tired of reprising this one for our VERY slow learners:
JKL2, your ongoing strategery of calling American voters stupid, lazy, etc is really working out great for you!
Keep up the good work!
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:19 am
Only a Liberal writer would produce a supportive article during an administration unraveling. A real Journalist would be digging for the truth & reporting it!
_____________
Nothing is unraveling. Except the CIA director’s career, and that’s already come apart.
Administration will be here – Four more years. And the economy will be much better four years from now.
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:19 am
TBS,
It looks then that there’s hope for you.
They BOTH suck
November 14th, 2012
10:19 am
Recon
For the record, I have stated numerous times that I think we need a phased in approach to get back to the Clinton era rates as well as a revamping of the EITC.
At best someone should break even, I do not think they should be getting money back that they haven’t paid in. Presidents in both parties as well as Congress have continued to changed the EITC and I am not a fan of its current form.
Doing both of these things would include many of the 47% ers that some on the right like the demonize for not paying federal income taxes.
Logical Dude
November 14th, 2012
10:20 am
SFD: The line in the sand should be that we are flat out not going to reduce Medicare or Social Security benefits, period, end of frickin’ story.
I disagree. Common sense changes need to be made, the most striking is raising the retirement age to go along with life expectancy.
Otherwise, cut defense wayyyy down as well, since Medicare, Social Security and Defense are the major huge items in the budget.
Sure, freeze spending/reduce spending in all areas, along with raising taxes/revenue.
All options are needed to bring the country to paying the debt. We can’t just balance the budget and call it a day, there is still the huge amounts of debt that will likely take 30 years to pay off (since it took us this long to get this deep).
MANGLER
November 14th, 2012
10:20 am
Congress seems to forget that Obama can use executive mandate to override almost anything that they do to block him. All Presidents can, and most have on single issues here and there. It’s not the most popular route available, but it’s there. Unless the goal of the mandate is to harm the Nation or place the goals of the Party over those of the Nation, the Supreme Court will pretty much go along with the mandates. Leaders are supposed to work as a team, but when the team refuses to compromise on anything, then the highest Leader steps in and flat out makes the decisions. Is Congress really going to let it get to that point? Because if Jan 1st passes and they haven’t reached some sort of deal, guess what … you are going to see Obama wield that little blue pen on his desk in ways that you can’t imagine. Not a threat, a reality.
kayaker 71
November 14th, 2012
10:21 am
Nothing has essentially changed in Bozo’s plan. And there are a whole lot of unhappy campers out there who think that the Marxist in charge is taking this country down the wrong path, despite what Bookman says. Keep in mind that Bozo won by 51/49, hardly a mandate by anyone’s standards. So how do you lead all of the people? Certainly not by bullying tactics and subterfuge. Do you think for half a second that this arrogant narcissist is going to share the stage with any Republican and promote bipartisan legislation to solve our financial debacle? Nope. He never has…… what makes you think that he will now? Nothing has changed. Same old rhetoric….. “take a backseat, Republicans….. you lost”. This clown has an agenda. He doesn’t have time to lead. He has a “mandate”. What a crock.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:21 am
If your society’s economic market EVER requires more than 7 exponential base-ten numbers,,,,,,then ye shall know that your economic market is surely dooooomed and that there are myriads of governmental scimmers about”.
Sir Issac Newton 1679″
___________
Those numbers must be adjusted for inflation.
Welcome to the Occupation
November 14th, 2012
10:22 am
I’m sorry I just don’t have much use for this Obama.
But we’re stuck with him, so we’re going to have to find a way to push him.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:22 am
Atler8 – 10:17 – and again, when will the GOP banish him to the rubbish heap??
he’s stinkin’ up the joint.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:22 am
We balanced the budget the old fashioned way, we raised taxes and cut spending.
William Jefferson Clinton
Nero
November 14th, 2012
10:22 am
Pain now or more pain later. I choose pain now. The country will adapt. We’re standing at the precipice peering into the void. One quick shove and the dynamic changes. Do it! Make all the leeches own it.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:23 am
…during an administration unraveling.
Oy, the stupid.
You neocons just got electorally crushed, steamrolled, spanked, smacked down and drubbed.
AGAIN.
And for those of you with short memories, that is three times out of the last four.
Evolve or die.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:23 am
I choose pain now.
____________
Are you choosing pain now for yourself or for other people. My guess is that it’s for other people.
josef
November 14th, 2012
10:24 am
I know the budget is a big issue and should be a topic of discussion, but it quite frankly bores the hell out of me. It bores me when I have to do my own and have my own partisan fracas here at home. However, there are some pretty colored graphs which we haven’t seen in a while. A new day, but the SOS…
On the other hand, I did enjoy, for lack of a better term, the discussion last p.m.
OTHERWISE…how the hell is the day crew?
Toxic
November 14th, 2012
10:24 am
Considering the test scores and educational attainment of the average US citizen, it is kind of reassuring not to be agreeing with the majority of people in this country.
southpaw
November 14th, 2012
10:25 am
JHM
First of all, a salute from me (is it OK for a civilian to salute?) for thinking solutions instead of snark. Here’s an idea for tweaking your plan just a little. Since 2012 will have an extremely high deficit, another year might be a better baseline. Budgets passed when Bill Clinton was President are touted for having surpluses, so let’s use 1999 as a baseline instead. Since prices have risen in the past 13 years, allow increases to the 1999 budget to match the consumer price index. Congressional approval for going over the budget is a good idea, although a 3/5 or 2/3 supermajority requirement might be an improvement. We may also want to return to the tax rates/deductions/credits from that time, as well.
Let me know what you think of these ideas.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:25 am
Nothing has essentially changed in Bozo’s plan.
______
Obama’s plan has been working. And there is no reason to change it. His plan has been and still is to deal with the deficit by raising taxes and cutting spending.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:25 am
…the Marxist in charge…
Speaking of slow learners, howz it going, Mr. Romney landslide?
And Mr. West says hi from the private sector!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:25 am
“Are you choosing pain now for yourself or for other people. My guess is that it’s for other people.”
dammit, Oscar – you beat me to it.
alex
November 14th, 2012
10:25 am
hey joe ( good song)Will the money generated be enough?. Both sides have to compromise, I think they will, I do NOT see the increase of the taxes for the upper 2% as unreasonable, unless you live in san fran NY or DC where 250,000 isn’t what it used to be, should be some regional variation there….
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:26 am
“Both of their tracking polls had Romney winning the national popular vote.”
Byte, as I recall just a few days before the election they both only had Romney up one point in the national. Rasmussen had Romney up only one point in the national several days before the election. Rasmussen along with many other polls had it close in the battleground states, which it proved not to be.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 14th, 2012
10:27 am
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:15 am
T. Heyward — “The absolute least that the no-loads in Washington could do would be to draft some sort of treaty where global EVERYBODY would agree to take at least 4 zeros off of everyone’s respective debt figure….and income figure.”
Actually, that’s been proposed by some econ bloggers. There’s a very involved chart floating around the intertubes with colored arrows pointing back and forth at the various G-8 nations, demonstrating who owes whom money and how much. Remarkably, most of the nations seem to be owed *roughly* about the same amount as they owe others in the G-8.
That said, I don’t believe China was included in that graphic.
————————————————————————————————————————-
.
Excactly.
.
Instantly ..tomorrow……TPTB “could” swatt three zeros off of all global debt……AND……only swap 2 off of “global” currency.
.
Problem solved with a ten percent haircut.
And it REALLY is that simple but………………
TPTB need debt slaves and the slaves go there willingly.
Why would they change?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 14th, 2012
10:27 am
there are a whole lot of unhappy campers out there who think that the Marxist in charge is taking this country down the wrong path
But there are MORE on the other side of the fence, Kayaker.
mwuahahahahahahahahaa
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:27 am
OTHERWISE…how the hell is the day crew?
———–
Doing fine here. Going to visit my seven month old grand daughter this weekend. Can’t wait to be there.
How about youself, Joself.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 14th, 2012
10:28 am
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:21 am
If your society’s economic market EVER requires more than 7 exponential base-ten numbers,,,,,,then ye shall know that your economic market is surely dooooomed and that there are myriads of governmental scimmers about”.
Sir Issac Newton 1679″
___________
Those numbers must be adjusted for inflation.
———————————————————————————————————————————–
.
You still do not understand.
Please keep trying.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:28 am
K71 — “Keep in mind that Bozo won by 51/49, hardly a mandate by anyone’s standards.”
It is by Dick Cheney’s standards. He called Bush’s 2004 re-election a mandate, but consider this:
Obama won more popular votes than Bush did in 2004.
Obama earned a greater *margin* in the popular vote than Bush did in 2004.
Obama won a greater percentage of the popular vote than Bush did in 2004.
Also,
Obama won nearly 50 more Electoral Votes in his re-election than Bush did in his.
In short, Obama’s got a stronger claim to a mandate in 2012 than Bush had in 2004.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2008/11/04/in-2008-will-media-recall-2004-declarations-of/146033
He has a “mandate”. What a crock.
Damned *numbers.* How come they’re always so librul, just like science?
flagboy?
November 14th, 2012
10:28 am
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:23 am
Are you choosing pain now for yourself or for other people. My guess is that it’s for other people.
_______________________________
Kind of like 16 trillion in debt.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
10:31 am
Common sense changes need to be made, the most striking is raising the retirement age to go along with life expectancy.
The retirement age IS raising to go along with life expectancy. Already. You don’t need to raise it more in order to give Warren Buffet a slightly bigger tax break.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:32 am
You still do not understand.
Please keep trying.
_______
Splain it to me, Lucy.
josef
November 14th, 2012
10:32 am
OSCAR
Enjoy that time with the New One. Nothing quite like that to put things in perspective.
Me? Fine and dandy and full of piss and vinagre. Got the annual round of poke, prod and rest results back and a good report. Now I have the rest of the day to play with the day crew and catch up on some stuff hanging from the other screen.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:33 am
Kind of like 16 trillion in debt.
__________
We will grow out of it. But it has to be done right. No jumping off cliffs.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:34 am
“Keep in mind that Bozo won by 51/49, hardly a mandate by anyone’s standards. ”
bollocks
he won a majority of the vote – and from more than the “white male” population … in other words, he won in both quantity AND representative quality of the vote.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/07/politics/exit-polls-analysis/index.html
deegee
November 14th, 2012
10:35 am
Oh, please God deliver us from Tom Price!!! He is the ditziest of the bobble-headed mouthpieces of the republican party. I have never heard him say anything of substance. He gets in front of the camera and spouts republican talking points without even taking a breath. He is one of the most contemptuous empty suits in Washington. Lord, please don’t let him have his way!!!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:36 am
Southpaw — “Here’s an idea for tweaking your plan just a little. Since 2012 will have an extremely high deficit, another year might be a better baseline. Budgets passed when Bill Clinton was President are touted for having surpluses, so let’s use 1999 as a baseline instead. Since prices have risen in the past 13 years, allow increases to the 1999 budget to match the consumer price index.”
I have absolutely no problem with using a different year as the baseline. However, depending on how jarring the changes are between the current fiscal year and the baseline year, we might want to squeeze in an interstitial year to smooth out the bumps. For example, if some Federal agency had experienced a 30% increase in its budget since 1999, we should probably phase that change in over two years, rather than go right to it and throw the agency into disarray.
“Congressional approval for going over the budget is a good idea, although a 3/5 or 2/3 supermajority requirement might be an improvement.”
If there’s some kind of national emergency, like a major national disaster or a war, surely Congress will pull together. But purely regional interests (or the interests of a narrow slice of the business community) would certainly find a harder time attracting the support of a supermajority of Congress.
“We may also want to return to the tax rates/deductions/credits from that time, as well.”
I’ve got no problem at all returning to Clinton-era tax rates. Heck, I wouldn’t mind Kennedy-era tax rates, but indexed to inflation rather than adopted as-is. I think that 91% tax rate would need to kick in at a far higher income level than it did back then.
Let me know what you think of these ideas.
Oscar
November 14th, 2012
10:36 am
Time to go to my real life now. Everyone have a good day.
Nero
November 14th, 2012
10:36 am
No, I choose pain for myself as well. The only way it will work is if we all burn together. Sequestration is the logical way to go. Raise everybody’s taxes. Gut most if not all deductions. Cut defense. Cut entitlements. Pay down the debt. Drag the leeches over the cliff screaming. We’ll be better off for it.
David Shivers
November 14th, 2012
10:36 am
If Boehner’s candidate doesn’t win today, we may all pay a high (and mighty) Price.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:38 am
Alex — “hey joe ( good song)Will the money generated be enough?.”
Don’t know. We would probably have to make adjustments as we went along, but at least my plan would have us *aiming* for surpluses every year.
“Both sides have to compromise, I think they will, I do NOT see the increase of the taxes for the upper 2% as unreasonable, unless you live in san fran NY or DC where 250,000 isn’t what it used to be, should be some regional variation there….”
Do you have an idea for how that could be done in a fair manner? Warren Buffett might be a little peeved if he’s being taxed differently in Omaha than Tom Cruise is in LA.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
10:38 am
Joe H M
………First, we set spending level *ceilings* on all Federal line items. Just for the sake of argument, I’m going to propose FY 2012 as the baseline. Spending is locked in at or below this level, and *cannot* by law exceed that level without Congressional approval……….
The biggest problem we face on spending is healthcare cost are growing way faster than GDP. Unless we fix this nothing will stop the explosion of the budget. The first agenda item should be allowing seniors and government workers to be able to buy drugs from the VA. That would alone save about 60% of the cost of drugs. Also we must set up easier systems for access to healthcare like dial a doc for non emergency uninsured as well as federal employees and Medicare/Medicaid recipients. We also must raise co-pays and lower coverage on elective care for government workers and Medicare/Medicaid recipients. And we must deregulate healthcare to allow nurses to perform more primary care.
Second factor is military, that can only get fixed if we stop the policy of being the policemen for the world.
Third SS can be fixed with some minor tweaks and we should put in an option that allows younger workers to gradually use an annuity type product they own.
Finally combine this with consolidation of redundant agencies we would have enough money to reinvest into needed infrastructure which would create jobs ie more tax revenue.
As far as taxes you have heard my point before about lowering rates and eliminating all special interest write-offs, which would create more revenue and jobs. And eliminating payroll taxes and replace it with a national sales tax or VAT, which would also create jobs ie more tax revenue.
Logical Dude
November 14th, 2012
10:39 am
SFD: You don’t need to raise it more in order to give Warren Buffet a slightly bigger tax break.
No, it’s to pay down the debt, Mr Buffet’s tax rate should be in line with revenue enhancements. (meaning, he would be paying more).
See how that works? *every* *body* is affected. Benefits will be reduced, and taxes will go up. Loopholes will be closed. etc etc etc.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:39 am
T. Heyward — “Problem solved with a ten percent haircut.
And it REALLY is that simple but………………”
To be fair, that doesn’t take China into account. I think that problem’s going to be a *lot* more difficult to solve.
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:39 am
“But there are MORE on the other side of the fence, Kayaker.”
There’s a lot more on the other side who have no clue one way or the other. They just want to keep taking what the government gives them and the Democrats did a great job of getting most of them to the polls.
josef
November 14th, 2012
10:39 am
“Keep in mind that Bozo won by 51/49, hardly a mandate by anyone’s standards. ”
Parse it anyway you want and any way it makes you feel better, but that’s a fact. And the mandate? That nearly half the eligible voters who basically said, “who gives a sh*t. A pox on both their houses. I’ll stay home.” That’s the cold-blooded reality that nobody seems willing or able to confront.
mm
November 14th, 2012
10:40 am
Remove the income cap on SS tax. Apply the SS tax to capital gains, not just payroll income.
SS problem solved.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 14th, 2012
10:41 am
USinUK,
“assumes facts not in evidence.”
Is that a name like “Dances With Wolves”?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:41 am
Keep in mind that Bozo won by 51/49, hardly a mandate by anyone’s standards.
Apparently someone does not yet understand how presidential elections work in this county.
You ultra-bozos just got routed
Again.
Keep up the excellent work.
At least until you can perfect your time machine and go back to the 1950s where you belong…
Dunwoody Granny
November 14th, 2012
10:42 am
Is anyone in the Democratic party giving thought to how we can win back the white male voter?
Maybe if we just did a better job of making our case…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 14th, 2012
10:42 am
“White House ‘Held Affair Over Petraeus’s Head’ For Favorable Testimony On Benghazi”
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: “I think the really shocking news today was that General Petraeus thought and hoped he could keep his job. He thought that it might and it would be kept secret, and that he could stay in his position. I think what that tells us is really important. It meant that he understood that the FBI obviously knew what was going on. He was hoping that those administration officials would not disclose what had happened, and therefore hoping that he would keep his job. And that meant that he understood that his job, his reputation, his legacy, his whole celebrated life was in the hands of the administration, and he expected they would protect him by keeping it quiet.
And that brings us to the ultimate issue, and that is his testimony on September 13. That’s the thing that connects the two scandals, and that’s the only thing that makes the sex scandal relevant. Otherwise it would be an exercise in sensationalism and voyeurism and nothing else. The reason it’s important is here’s a man who knows the administration holds his fate in its hands, and he gives testimony completely at variance with what the Secretary of Defense had said the day before, at variance with what he’d heard from his station chief in Tripoli, and with everything that we had heard. Was he influenced by the fact that he knew his fate was held by people within the administration at that time?”
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/11/13/krauthammer-white-house-held-affair-over-petraeuss-head-favorable-tes#ixzz2CDClNKWY
St Simons
November 14th, 2012
10:43 am
It physically hurts me to keep saying this to my fellow liberals,
but its in our nature, I guess. We (you) continue to place human,
conscience-based characteristics on sociopaths.
These people will not conform to the paradigm of what they SHOULD do,
You continue to assume they will do what we as liberals
THINK they should do. They won’t, because they’re missing that ‘chip’.
Its the same area of the brain that senses Irony & hypocrisy.
I’m tellin you, these cats will not change, don’t intend to change,
and they’re goin out with a bang, not a handshake.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
10:44 am
Obama should go in demanding 8 zeros off.
.
It would make things simpler from here on out.
I think I’ve figured out your problem (and a problem of many, many others, including most anyone who seems terrified of the word “Trillion).
Really, just trying to help, here.
http://www.fearofstuff.com/numbers/fear-of-numbers/
What Causes Numerophobia?
Fears develop in peculiar ways. For instance one scenario that may cause numerophobia could be that as a child you, for no particular reason began counting how many sections of sidewalk it took in order to get from your home to school. It got to the point where you could predict within ten paces how many steps it would take every day. It was fun until you couldn’t stop counting. It might even be that you were stopped from counting by a traumatic incident (accident, bully or upset parent). From that moment you may have moved from enjoying the counting to fearing the numbers that resulted in trouble. From that point on numbers may have been equated in your mind as something that caused problems.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:44 am
J. Konop — “The biggest problem we face on spending is healthcare cost are growing way faster than GDP. Unless we fix this nothing will stop the explosion of the budget.”
FWIW, I have an idea about that, too, but it would send the cons into fits.
My sense is that the healthcare cost issue will never be solved unless and until we run and manage healthcare like a public utility in this country. I know that will cause the Usual Suspects to foam at the mouth and go ZOMG SOSHULIZUM, but market-based solutions have had generations to work and they simply aren’t.
IMO, some economic problems don’t *have* market-based solutions, And IMO, health insurance is one of them.
josef
November 14th, 2012
10:44 am
DUNWOODY G
“Maybe if we just did a better job of making our case…”
Yep. And drive-by demonizing ain’t the way to do it…
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:44 am
“They just want to keep taking what the government gives them and the Democrats did a great job of getting most of them to the polls.”
yep … you keep playing the 47% / taker card … we’ll keep on winning elections …
Jefferson
November 14th, 2012
10:45 am
Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions unless you are a republican.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 14th, 2012
10:45 am
Josef,
Congrats on the clean bill of health!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:45 am
C. Sharpe — “Is that a name like “Dances With Wolves”?
I tell my wife that her Native American name would be “Parks All Wrong.”
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:46 am
mm — “Remove the income cap on SS tax. Apply the SS tax to capital gains, not just payroll income. SS problem solved.”
Are you down with means-testing for benefits, too?
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:46 am
” we’ll keep on winning elections …”
At least until the money runs out.
Nero
November 14th, 2012
10:46 am
Don’t just stare at it!! JUMP!!!
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:47 am
…and the Democrats did a great job of getting most of them to the polls.
Republispeak for our product sucks much of the time, is getting worse and more outdated and WAY too many Americans won’t buy it. (But we ain’t ever gonna own up to that basic fact. Because we are the smart ones!)
The future does not look kind for the Party of No…
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 14th, 2012
10:47 am
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:45 am
alex
November 14th, 2012
10:48 am
@John Konop, I see a lot of medicare and medicaid waste in the system..As for the primary care issue, do YOU want to see a M.D. or an PA/NP, easy to say IF a simple problem, but that 1-5% of time (estimate) when the problem is difficult will the FAR less trained recognize what they do NOT know…. as for dial a doc: could be part of the answer, From my perspective, a lot of people would be willing to accept a algorythm based care, realizing that there is potentially cheaper product and less capable ( hey, go to Walmart and buy the Walmart tent, see how long it lasts, go to REI…)
You will see a lot of interists go to concirage which will drop even more people into the system looking for healthcareb
mm
November 14th, 2012
10:48 am
“They just want to keep taking what the government gives them and the Democrats did a great job of getting most of them to the polls.”
Please keep saying this for 2 more years. The only reason the cons kept the House is because of 2010 gerrymandering.
Jefferson
November 14th, 2012
10:49 am
Those who speak of scandals should cut womens hair and gossip with them… gotcha moments are childlike petty.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:49 am
“I tell my wife that her Native American name would be “Parks All Wrong.”
”
hahahahahaha
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:49 am
Recon — “At least until the money runs out.”
Come now. Sheldon Adelson’s worth at least another six or seven Democratic election blowouts.
Thulsa Doom
November 14th, 2012
10:50 am
As much hell as I give Joe mama and vice versa his ideas the previous page are good and would work provided the 2 parties could come to terms on cuts. R s are going to have to give in on defense spending, D s on govt programs that are duplicative or that do not work, and we’re going to have to have means testing on ss for the very wealthy.
My concern on spending cuts and tax raises would be the same thing Reagan went through. Twice he agreed to tax increases in exchange for spending cuts. He got duped. The tax increases took place. The spending reductions never did.
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:50 am
“The future does not look kind for the Party of No…”
The future does not look good for the country and guess what happens as that inconvenient truth continues to unfold.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:50 am
On the other side, there is the Wall Street way of life and politics. Trust the leader! Let big business take care of prices and profits! Measure all things by money! That is the philosophy of the masters of the Republican Party.
Well, I have been studying the Republican Party for over 12 years at close hand in the Capital of the United States. And by this time, I have discovered where the Republicans stand on most of the major issues.
Since they won’t tell you themselves, I am going to tell you.
Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke.
They stand four-square for the American home–but not for housing.
They are strong for labor–but they are stronger for restricting labor’s rights.
They favor minimum wage–the smaller the minimum wage the better.
They endorse educational opportunity for all–but they won’t spend money for teachers or for schools.
They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine–for people who can afford them.
They consider electrical power a great blessing–but only when the private power companies get their rake-off.
They think American standard of living is a fine thing–so long as it doesn’t spread to all the people.
And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. ~Harry S. Truman, October 1948
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:50 am
“At least until the money runs out.”
hahahaha … I think you guys are at a FAR greater risk of the money running out than the Dems … ask the Koch brothers and all the other super-pac funders if they’re down with spending another $3B on a losing election …
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
10:51 am
At least until the money runs out.
oh, do tell, Del. Tell me about how we’ll ALL BE SORRY when we’ve forced you “producers” to run off to Galt Gulch.
Nero
November 14th, 2012
10:51 am
Sequestration now!!!
josef
November 14th, 2012
10:51 am
CORBIN
Thanks. To celebrate I went by the cafeteria and had breakfast: cheesy eggs, greasy pattie pork sausage, biscuits and a large coffee…
And I got y’all’s Indian names…
killerj
November 14th, 2012
10:53 am
Same old crap Jay,nice to know we the people have a prez that the majority did not want,the next four years will be pathetic.
Mateo
November 14th, 2012
10:54 am
I say let Boehner and the House Reps drive us over the cliff. Cut defense and let the tax cuts expire for everyone, get the budget back on track with SHARED SACRIFICE. Throw the Reps under the bus and say “see what their gridlock gets, tax increases for all!” Dems will clean up at the midterm.
St Simons
November 14th, 2012
10:55 am
josef is the ‘keeper of the stories (language)’ – a high place in the tribe
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:55 am
The future does not look good for the country…
Of course, it does.
There is more opportunity today than there was yesterday. And there will be more tomorrow.
The Republicans may have quit on this republic, but their is still a ton of fight left in us liberals, independents, moderates and greens.
We are in this thing for the long haul and we are going to continue to make this “a more perfect union”!
The liberals were liberators – they fought slavery, fought for women to have the right to vote, fought against Hitler, fought to end segregation, fought to end apartheid. Liberals put an end to child labor and they gave us the five day work week. ~Barbara Streisand
curious
November 14th, 2012
10:56 am
In the Military, you’re liable to lose your security clearance if you’re in big time debt. You are vulnerable to bad guys willing to help with the problem in exchange for information.
With the apparent financial situation with the Kelly woman, I would question the judgment of Petraeus and Allen being associated with her.
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
10:56 am
I think that some of you card carrying left wingers on here still believe in Santa Clause. Rich folks in America are soon to become an endangered species if they’re not already.
mm
November 14th, 2012
10:56 am
JHM,
“Are you down with means-testing for benefits, too?”
If you expand the SS tax, you can probably lower the SS tax rate. And means testing should be at an appropriate level.
TaxPayer
November 14th, 2012
10:56 am
To be poopy heads or not to be poopy heads, that is the question of the day.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
10:57 am
Scout – “The future does not look good for the country and guess what happens as that inconvenient truth continues to unfold.”
you’re right … the future looks GREAT for the country now that it’s no longer being held ransom by the religious nutty-nut-nuts who think that gay marriage causes hurricanes.
TaxPayer
November 14th, 2012
10:57 am
The Santa Clause confirmed that it’s the fine print that will get you every time.
TBone
November 14th, 2012
10:57 am
“Obama’s plan has been working. And there is no reason to change it. His plan has been and still is to deal with the deficit by raising taxes and cutting spending.”
The budget deficit increased $120 billion in October so what part of his plan is working?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:58 am
we the people have a prez that the majority did not want
Hello? Is this thing on?
Where in the Wide, Wide World of Sports do you get your information???
the next four years will be pathetic.
For you or the republic?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
10:58 am
Doom — “As much hell as I give Joe mama and vice versa his ideas the previous page are good and would work provided the 2 parties could come to terms on cuts. R s are going to have to give in on defense spending, D s on govt programs that are duplicative or that do not work, and we’re going to have to have means testing on ss for the very wealthy.”
Folks, you see me and Doom beating up on each other in here at least once or twice a week — so if we can agree on something like this, then maybe it’s got a hope in heck of actually being worthwhile.
mm
November 14th, 2012
10:58 am
“Rich folks in America are soon to become an endangered species if they’re not already.”
Yeah, that extra 4% is going to bankrupt these folks. NOT.
josef
November 14th, 2012
10:58 am
He ne ha
“josef is the ‘keeper of the stories (language)’”
Sorta like hair dresser and interior decorator…goes with the Two Spirit territory!
KILLERJ
“…nice to know we the people have a prez that the majority did not want…”
So, where’s the news in that. It happens every four years.
southpaw
November 14th, 2012
10:58 am
JHM
You’ve definitely improved on my improvements. An interstitial year is a better idea than forcing an agency to cut back all at once. I can’t help but wonder how many agencies have increased their budgets MORE than 30%–even if measured in constant dollars, not current dollars.
We probably don’t want to return to Kennedy-era tax rates. I, at least, tend to oppose 90% tax rates just on general principles. They tend to cause more people to be in the same boat as James Ross. Who, you ask, is James Ross? Read his story below.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/business/at-102-his-tax-rate-takes-the-cake-common-sense.html?pagewanted=all
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
10:59 am
Rich folks in America are soon to become an endangered species…
Although ALL available information proves otherwise.
Sheesh…
Lynnie Gal
November 14th, 2012
10:59 am
Ditto Jam Vet.
It is obvious by their behavior that Republicans can not learn–they have to be defeated and marginalized because change is impossible for people whose heads are made of brick. Even after the drubbing they took last Tuesday from women, Ohio Republicans have renewed their attacks on Planned Parenthood and are attempting to pass a “heartbeat” bill to criminalize abortion. Once again, they’ll never learn. They have to be outnumbered and ousted from government and forced to crawl back under their rocks of hatred.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
11:01 am
Looks like the same old whines from FTroop, absent any reality.
TaxPayer
November 14th, 2012
11:01 am
A glimpse at the highlight of today’s GOP House agenda,
“All those opposed to Tom Price as Chairman please signify with a hearty “I OBJECT!”"
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
11:02 am
“but their is still a ton of fight left in us liberals, independents, moderates and greens.”
I think there’s a greater ton of bull shyte in liberals and what do you call them “greens”. The perfect union your talking about is getting more imperfect each day. Better lay off blogging for awhile and broaden you scope.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
11:02 am
Joe H M,
…My sense is that the healthcare cost issue will never be solved unless and until we run and manage healthcare like a public utility in this country..
In all due respect, nothing fixes the problem private or public unless we look at real cuts. Both sides would rather debate ideology over lifting up the hood and making tough calls. I am pragmatist, who deals in reality not macro ideology.
The BS on both sides of this issue blows my mind. I heard Debbie Wasserman Schultz claim we need no fixes to Medicare/ Medicaid only waste and abuse reforms will fix it. Anyone who can do math and understand the problem knows that is BS. Also on the right they claim that bulk buying of drugs would not save money is BS. Let’s cut the ideological BS and have a real conversation on how to fix the budget.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:02 am
“Rich folks in America are soon to become an endangered species…”
hyperbole, thy name is Recon.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
11:04 am
Better lay off blogging for awhile and broaden you [sic] scope.
Del is dispensing advice but not taking it himself.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 14th, 2012
11:05 am
FL governor drops opposition to Obamacare.
LOL
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:05 am
“FL governor drops opposition to Obamacare.”
I’m shocked! shocked, I tell you!!
Recon 0311 2533
November 14th, 2012
11:05 am
Well the stuck on stupid crowd will always remain in that condition. Enjoy it while you can libs. I’m out
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
11:06 am
There’s no mandate and no significant leverage or upper hand. The feeble economy and tepid recovery have the upper hand and almost anything done to reduce the deficit potentially hurts the recovery. Want to cut extended unemployment leaving 2 million Amerians without their life support check starting January 1?
Cutting spending threatens the economy as does increasing taxes. So the Congress will do as little as possible in spending cuts and tax increases and will avoid the cliff by kicking the can down the road once again.
josef
November 14th, 2012
11:07 am
Wa-do Del
“I’m out”
Well, not yet, but you are evolving…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
11:07 am
“stuck on stupid crowd” — Jindal’s GOP?
alex
November 14th, 2012
11:07 am
Add to this, Doom and Joe ,an older age at which ss is collected and medicare starts. We live Too long, Too well to start collecting our ss and Medicare at such a young age…
@Konop, not sure what you mean by public utility, Ga. power has a monopoly . correct..?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
11:08 am
mm — “If you expand the SS tax, you can probably lower the SS tax rate.”
Excellent idea. That would get business’ support, I bet!
“And means testing should be at an appropriate level.”
How about vanishing benefits? Retirees with an AGI up to, let’s say $40K, can receive full SS benefits and Medicare. And then benefits fade out on a schedule like this:
AGI $40K – $70K get 75% SS bennies and full Medicare with subsidized premium
AGI $70K – $100K get 50% SS and full Medicare with subsidized premium
AGI $100K – $130K get 25% SS and pay 1/3 of full Medicare cost (unsubsidized premium)
AGI $130K – $160K receive no SS benefits and pay 2/3 of full Medicare cost
AGI >$160K receive no SS benefits and pay full, unsubsidized Medicare premium
Fair? Unfair? Reasonable? Unreasonable?
We can quibble over the specific numbers, but does this look like a good start?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
11:08 am
Del, sucks to be you, I guess!
zeke
November 14th, 2012
11:08 am
Totally the fault of Obama and the liberal democrats! They can’t do a single thing positive to spur the economy and the future of the country! All they can do is tax, tax, tax, and, spend, spend, spend! They can take 100% of the income in taxes and not put a dent in the deficit or the debt! It can ONLY BE AFFECTED BY REDUCTIONS IN SPENDING!
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 14th, 2012
11:08 am
Keep in mind ……………you pro-state/slavery apologists……Obama won with 62.6 million votes. He got 30.2 percent of eligible voters’ possible votes.Less than 15% of the population. What he should do is immediately resign. He has failed even to get any reasonable fraction of his countrymen behind his presidency. Romney, of course, did slightly worse.
.
But……………..there’s always this…………………………………………………….
.
CDS Iran Israel
Update: Israel CDS 145/155, +6 bps
“In a move that is certain to aggravate the already frayed relations between Israel and the Palestine, not to mention send Brent spiking, moments ago the IAF, in a precision airstrike, assassinated Ahmed Jaabari, the head of Hamas’ armed wing – a position that is equivalent to Chief of Staff – together with his son, who were travelling in a car at the moment of the strike. And, as expected, the furious Hamas response has already been logged and promises much more death and escalation in the near term.”
.
Let us all pony up mo money to the MIC.
Erwin's cat
November 14th, 2012
11:10 am
JHM and Doomy – Folks, you see me and Doom beating up on each other in here at least once or twice a week — so if we can agree on something like this, then maybe it’s got a hope in heck of actually being worthwhile.
count me in as well
CJ
November 14th, 2012
11:10 am
Mick you are correct President Obama is the SMARTEST presidents ever in the White House. Bush was so DUMB, his money bought his way through school because he certainly did not earn his degree. Is his still an alcoholic? Oh, no…way a minute…I think his daughters are.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
11:11 am
Fair? Unfair? Reasonable? Unreasonable?
I hate means-testing this stuff. I want upper-middle incomers to have a full stake in this. And if you run the numbers you’ll see you’ll get diddly squat in terms of actual savings.
So, dreadful idea.
(we talked about this yesterday, I said essentially the same thing. I think I’ll need to get an elevator speech prepared, because reasonable people keep bringing it up.)
curious
November 14th, 2012
11:12 am
About 60 years ago, playing football in the backyard, the rich kid with the football would take it and go home if he didn’t get his way.
Maybe some of these “rich” folks need to take their football and go home.
The rest of us will figure out a way to keep playing.
Thulsa Doom
November 14th, 2012
11:12 am
Joe mama,
No doubt. If you and I can agree on something then there is hope for us all. Politicians though? Now that’s a whole different story. Hopefully my pessimism in them all is misplaced. Hopefully…
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
11:13 am
Alex,
….. @Konop, not sure what you mean by public utility, Ga. power has a monopoly . correct..?…..
That was not me that was from Joe H M. I agree I am not a big fan of privet/public ventures, as the father of the free market system pointed out years ago (Adam Smith) they are ripe for abuse.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
11:13 am
They have to be outnumbered and ousted from government and forced to crawl back under their rocks of hatred.
I completely agree, Lynnie.
The last thirty plus years have proven irrefutably that tying to reason or negotiate or compromise with this horrifically hijacked and dysfunctional GOP “leadership” is damn nigh impossible.
Intransigent, intolerant to a deadly fault, willfully ignorant and damn near totally inept.
And those with their demented 11th Commandment and Purity Tests are apparently going to have to learn the hard way…
barking frog
November 14th, 2012
11:13 am
The President always has the upper hand unless Congress has a veto proof coalition.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
11:14 am
Southpaw — “You’ve definitely improved on my improvements. An interstitial year is a better idea than forcing an agency to cut back all at once. I can’t help but wonder how many agencies have increased their budgets MORE than 30%–even if measured in constant dollars, not current dollars.”
I recalled the experience of my father, who is a professor of Agriculture and who specializes in research. His department was required to cut 15% in a single year, and some of his fellow Ag profs were hit terribly hard; most had to give up their work-study lab and research assistants. Fortunately, my dad brings in a lot of research money from outside the university, so he was largely unaffected, but he had quite a few of those fired work-study students come beg him for work in his lab.
“We probably don’t want to return to Kennedy-era tax rates. I, at least, tend to oppose 90% tax rates just on general principles.”
Fair enough. What would be a better top rate, in your opinion? Or do you prefer something like a surtax that kicks in at a certain income level?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
11:15 am
Well, not yet, but you are evolving…
Huge LOL.
Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals. ~Mark Twain
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 14th, 2012
11:15 am
“The future does not look good for the country…”
Maybe not fot the radical right wing, but for the rest of us…lookin’ good!
If Jesus really had been a Republican…
http://cheezburger.com/6752278272
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
11:15 am
alex — “Add to this, Doom and Joe ,an older age at which ss is collected and medicare starts. We live Too long, Too well to start collecting our ss and Medicare at such a young age…”
Hmm. How about start collecting reduced bennies at 66, and full bennies available at 70?
Regnad Kcin
November 14th, 2012
11:16 am
“…nice to know we the people have a prez that the majority did not want…”
The maxim of the law is “silence gices consent – the correct interpretation is, those that did not vote against Obama, supported him…
southpaw
November 14th, 2012
11:16 am
St. Simons @10:43
“We (you) continue to place human, conscience-based characteristics on sociopaths.” Are you kidding? No, I suppose you’re not.
“These people will not conform to the paradigm of what they SHOULD do,” Should, according to whose calculation? Liberals have one idea of what we should do; conservatives have another. Can I get a “Well, your idea is wrong” from the Department of Hubris? That idea is irony at work, which leads to the next point.
“they’re missing that ‘chip’. Its the same area of the brain that senses Irony & hypocrisy.” Irony on your part, I’ll guess.
“You continue to assume they will do what we as liberals THINK they should do.” Your implication that we won’t may be right. What do you liberals think we should do? If you think we should help our fellow man, a lot of us are willing to do that. On the other hand, if you think we should empower the government to do it in our stead, then you’re right; we most likely won’t do what you think we should–because we have figured out that we shouldn’t. Last call for “Well, you figured wrong,” once again from the Department of Hubris.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
11:17 am
J. Konop — “In all due respect, nothing fixes the problem private or public unless we look at real cuts. Both sides would rather debate ideology over lifting up the hood and making tough calls. I am pragmatist, who deals in reality not macro ideology.”
I’m listening. Lay it on me.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
11:18 am
alex — “@Konop, not sure what you mean by public utility, Ga. power has a monopoly . correct..?”
That’s a personal notion on my part that I think J. Konop was quoting. I think that healthcare needs to be managed and treated like a public utility.
Rightwing Troll
November 14th, 2012
11:21 am
At least wingnuts have been correct on two points over the last 4 years…
There was a silent majority out there waiting until election day to make thier voices heard.
It was a landslide.
alex
November 14th, 2012
11:22 am
The invisible hand……
@ joe, sounds reasonable, something has to be done in our aging population, also end of life care HAS to be contained !
GasMan
November 14th, 2012
11:22 am
The problem to working out a deal is one of time and trust. The two sides don’t trust each other and frankly, don’t trust themselves to stick to a deal because every deal is going to hurt somebody and they are going to scream like a stuck pig.
You can’t do a deal where one side gets their stuff upfront (higher taxes) and the other side gets their stuff (spending cuts) later because we all know that the spending cuts will be lobbied out of existence. With that in mind, you have to put all the details in one bill and vote it up or down. That will take more time than we have right now. The politicians put themselves in this position and it is a tough one.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
11:23 am
Alex,
……… @John Konop, I see a lot of medicare and medicaid waste in the system..As for the primary care issue, do YOU want to see a M.D. or an PA/NP, easy to say IF a simple problem, but that 1-5% of time (estimate) when the problem is difficult will the FAR less trained recognize what they do NOT know…. as for dial a doc: could be part of the answer, From my perspective, a lot of people would be willing to accept a algorythm based care, realizing that there is potentially cheaper product and less capable ( hey, go to Walmart and buy the Walmart tent, see how long it lasts, go to REI…)
You will see a lot of interists go to concirage which will drop even more people into the system looking for healthcare………
The problem with America is both sides want to promise a 100% solution without any way of paying for it. The truth is in Europe and Canada they ration healthcare and they have a longer life expectancy. The real issue is not private or public, the biggest issue is the moment we start talking about cuts, both sides talk about killing grandma, death panels……. I have news the cuts are coming and they longer we wait the harder the medicine.
Rightwing Troll
November 14th, 2012
11:23 am
I can’t help but notice we have a whole bunch of newly minted “independents” around here… still spouting the same wingnut lies, however…
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
11:23 am
SfD — “I hate means-testing this stuff. I want upper-middle incomers to have a full stake in this. And if you run the numbers you’ll see you’ll get diddly squat in terms of actual savings. So, dreadful idea.”
I feel compelled to point out that SS is an *insurance* program, not a savings plan. So I think your criticism might be misplaced, but I’m willing to hear you out.
I don’t think Doom sells life insurance policies, but he’ll tell you — unless you buy an ROP life policy or some sort of whole-life or universal product, you’re not getting any money back if you outlive the policy term. That’s analogous to not getting anything back from SS if you’re too well-off in retirement.
I *do* think Doom will tell you that if you never get sick, you’re not getting your money back from one of his health policies, though.
“(we talked about this yesterday, I said essentially the same thing. I think I’ll need to get an elevator speech prepared, because reasonable people keep bringing it up.)”
When you think you have it, please test it on me. We can use each other to sharpen up our arguments and tune up our finer points.
Peadawg
November 14th, 2012
11:23 am
Looks like Skeletor is still the house minority leader….
http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/129013781780750239.jpg
Looney Bin
November 14th, 2012
11:25 am
What is it with the Right and their obsession with Democratic campaign slogans? I’m already seeing people make silly jokes about ‘forward’, after having to hear about ‘hope and change’ for four years….
Thulsa Doom
November 14th, 2012
11:25 am
The reduced bennnies idea on ss starting at 66 and topping to full benefits at 70 is a worthy idea. But there is really not that much tweaking necessary. I don’t know if u guys are talking about starting at 20% at 65 and then hitting at 100% at 70 or what. Seems to me that starting at 50% at 65 and then working up to 100% by 70 is all that is necessary. Contrary to all the dire predictions on SS the needed tweaks are minor.
SBinf
November 14th, 2012
11:25 am
“Obama just has to make things look ok for four more years, then the next President, likely a Republican, will end up having to deal with the problems that result, and of course the media will blame it on the GOP instead of on Obama. Everything good is because of Obama, everything bad is someone else’s fault.”
If the GOP couldn’t win in this climate, 2016 will be even more hostile for them.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
11:26 am
Pea, well other than the juvenile name calling, I agree. Pelosi is staying. Boehner may have to start crying again.
We’re going to see a lot more whining on the right about this. 
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
11:26 am
I wonder if the waffle House CEO was a big Newt supporter.
Philandering scumbags of a feather, and all…
JohnnyReb
November 14th, 2012
11:30 am
“It would also suggest that House Republicans have not yet learned the necessary lessons of the 2012 election, including the dangers of extremism and the wisdom of outreach to female voters.”
And what lessons would that be, Jay? You write as if Obama was elected by a landslide, which he was not.
We continue to be a house divided. The lesson for Obama and the Left was, voters kept control of the purse strings with Republicans.
For me, I hope the House does not cave to Obama. Revenues can be increased without raising tax rates. Plus, I’m sick and tired of all the whinning from the Left about rich people. If the Left wants more they should get off their ass and work for it the way I do.
deegee
November 14th, 2012
11:33 am
In Europe and Canada people exercise and don’t eat to excess. Our obesity rate is directly proportional to the rise in health care spending. If we really want to lower the cost of healthcare, maybe we should start charging by the pound for health insurance. After you exceed your target BMI you would start paying a premium. Wellness programs are good incentives because they lower your healthcare premium. Those that don’t participate because of their obesity need an incentive.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
11:34 am
You write as if Obama was elected by a landslide, which he was not.
62 – 38 is getting REAL close to landslide territory.
And the slow dismantling of the Middle Class in this country, that you love so much, Reb?
We’ll see if it takes a big hit or not, in the next four years.
I predict not.
Occupy that…
Long live the Plutocracy!
moonbat betty
November 14th, 2012
11:35 am
lol, JamVet: “Where in the Wide, Wide World of Sports”
That made me think of this:
“And the agony of da’ feet”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AZH4FeGsc
getalife
November 14th, 2012
11:35 am
Don’t change your leaders cons.
Stay the course.
gm
November 14th, 2012
11:39 am
To the south, you elected Romney as your confederate President, with any luck General Lee might be available in 2016, since you are the only idiots going back in time in the world.
Paul cry baby Ryan saying the President won because the urban vote, oh really Mr. Golden boy, I guess Iowa, Main, Vt, and your home town are urban, you lost because young people dont listen to scums like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity Neal B. the day of the angry white conservative bigots are over.
alex
November 14th, 2012
11:40 am
@ John Konop and if Americans will accept a 3 tier plan (see Austria) and ACCEPT longer waits for various procedures ,then so be it. Talking to people suggests that rationing is fine for EVERYONE ELSE….Me, personally I will be like many europeans and canadians and opt to pay extra for outside care, because I can and THAT is the part that FREE MARKET can pay.(and frankly, I see what a lot of volume primary care docs do… NO, not for ME).
Many Years ago, before a person was put on Dialysis on the goverments dime, there were panels that met to determine if this was bene ficial to the Patient, so a return to this would be nothing new….
Erwin's cat
November 14th, 2012
11:40 am
I wonder if the waffle House CEO was a big Newt supporter.
or Clinton, Edwards, or even Wiener…neither party has a monopoly on “philandering scumbags”
JohnnyReb
November 14th, 2012
11:40 am
JamVet – I grew up on a cotton mill village. So don’t throw the middle class crap to me. The problem with the Left is, they are lazy and preach laziness. If you want something, go for it, work for it. Don’t turn the government to extort it from people who do work.
As to the Obama near landslide – look at the electoral college map. Does that look like a landslide? No, it’s a country divided and those who voted for Obama must want it that way because the Right is not going to cave and be like the Left.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
11:40 am
Joe H M,
…… According to a recent survey, 51% of workers over the age of 55 have less than $50,000 saved for retirement. And 39% in that same age group have less than $25,000 in retirement savings. Those are frightening numbers if you consider that those people are very close to the typical age of retirement………
http://www.goodfinancialcents.com/average-retirement-savings-how-does-your-savings-stack-up/
The problem with your SS plan is it will not yield nearly enough money. The truth is our saving rate as a country is terrible. We need to increase revenues, especially with baby boomer generations killing ratios. That is why we need to change the formula for funding this via less workers and more retires. And that is why I proposed a VAT or national sales tax ie to widen the amount of people contributing.
moonbat betty
November 14th, 2012
11:41 am
“or Clinton, Edwards, or even Wiener…neither party has a monopoly on “philandering scumbags””
Hey, it’s OK if they do it, they don’t believe in Family Values…
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
11:42 am
That’s the one, betty!
I purloined it from…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0VNHe5fq30
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:43 am
“And what lessons would that be, Jay? You write as if Obama was elected by a landslide, which he was not.”
according to the republicans, he was.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-election-landslide.jpg
moonbat betty
November 14th, 2012
11:44 am
Good stuff, Jam.
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
11:44 am
Increasing the benefit age for SS and Medicare is probably the easiest, most palatable fix. Since the SS system was created as mandatory retirement savings rather than a straight tax means testing or other methods for denying benefits to those you have paid in the most is patently unfair.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
11:45 am
Two landslides means hush puppy.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
11:45 am
“Obama holds upper hand in budget confrontation”
Yeah right. That’s why the American voters sent a Republican majority back to the House of Representatives.
Brought to you by he same people who think a 50% – 48% popular vote victory is a “clear mandate.”
Liberals are so funny.
moonbat betty
November 14th, 2012
11:46 am
What is a land slide?
“the downward falling or sliding of a mass of feces, detritus, or rock on or from a steep slope”
getalife
November 14th, 2012
11:47 am
cons still think they are relevant.
Too funny.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:48 am
“As to the Obama near landslide – look at the electoral college map. Does that look like a landslide?”
yes. the red states – when you look at their population – are actually more like a sickly pink
http://skepticalavenger.tumblr.com/post/35641055184/chris-howard-america-really-looks-like-this-i
Regnad Kcin
November 14th, 2012
11:49 am
JReb, 62% – 38% is not a landslide? How many EVs would Obama have to get before you would characterize it such?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:50 am
“Yeah right. That’s why the American voters sent a Republican majority back to the House of Representatives.”
brought to you by the 2011 redistricting and “gerrymandering r us”
gm
November 14th, 2012
11:50 am
Amazing when Bush and the paid judges gave him the election in 2000, the first thing came out his mouth was I have leverage now, you did not hear the left talking about leaving the union.
You never heard a word from these hypocrites and bigots on the right when Bush spent all their money building up Iraq, and Dick C. taking their money using for his private contracts, these hypocrites never said a word, and they wonder why their party is a joke around the world.
SBinf
November 14th, 2012
11:50 am
“And what lessons would that be, Jay? You write as if Obama was elected by a landslide, which he was not.”
I love this talking point….now that Romney lost (instead of winning in a landslide as the GOP assumed), the GOP says that the country is divided and Obama didn’t win in a landslide, as though that means something. Let me spoil the secret….120+ electoral vote difference is a landslide.
Funny though, I don’t remember anyone on the Right lamenting Bush’s lack of a mandate when he was elected the first time after losing the popular vote, and winning in 2004 when the swing of one state would have meant sure defeat for him.
josef
November 14th, 2012
11:50 am
gm
“To the south, you elected Romney as your confederate President, with any luck General Lee might be available in 2016, since you are the only idiots going back in time in the world.”
You’re such a silly twit.
DUNWOODY GRANNY
And how to win back the White Southerners? There’s your card…
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
11:51 am
59 million to 57 million is a landslide in lib minds. Brought to you by the same people who think the top 10% of taxpayers “aren’t paying their fair share” when they pay 71% of the taxes.
Libs are so funny.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:51 am
“the first thing came out his mouth was I have leverage now”
actually, what he said was that he had political capital now, and he was going to spend it.
and then he grabbed the third rail with both hands and tried to privatize SS
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
11:51 am
“cons still think they are relevant”
Try getting anything through the House and get back to us on that.
appleseed
November 14th, 2012
11:53 am
My RGR stock down today.Guess our guns are safe now.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
11:53 am
“cons still think they are relevant”
You don’t live in Georgia do you?
St Simons
November 14th, 2012
11:54 am
yes, perfect strategery, cons, listen to Rush on the goofballs today.
Do exactly what he says (like I even needed to say that heheh)
don’t change a thang.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:54 am
“Try getting anything through the House and get back to us on that.”
yeah. because the “party of no” has REALLY worked out well for you.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
11:54 am
Conservatives will continue to try, but to no avail. The left has control, they have the message most Americans find beneficial and less demanding on them. Even as things continue to worsen, conservatism will skillfully be blamed and it will be believed.
When it’s evident that only the left leadership and corporations seem not to be suffering as the majority of people through the economic down turn, but actually becoming wealthier through the policies they implement, hopefully people will see the wisdom in conservatism. But I’m afraid it will be to late.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
11:55 am
Reb, lemme guess. You worked 23 hours a day and walked uphill both ways.
But please DO continue with your Limbaugh parroting about how the people who disagree with you are all lazy and stupid.
Given last week’s staggeringly good results, it is paying huge dividends for you and the Uncle Sam haters.
As to the Obama near landslide – look at the electoral college map. Does that look like a landslide?
Yes, of course it does!
A 335 to 202 landslide.
(It’s called mathematics.)
I predicted you fake conservatives were going to get stomped last week and you did.
Get used to more of the same coming up…
Because you spewing the exact same wholesale lies about good, decent, hard working, taxpaying American citizens is going to produce the same disastrous results for you…
Onward! To the 1950s!
SBinf
November 14th, 2012
11:55 am
“59 million to 57 million is a landslide in lib minds. Brought to you by the same people who think the top 10% of taxpayers “aren’t paying their fair share” when they pay 71% of the taxes.
Libs are so funny.”
Obama won in a landslide last time, both electorally and in the popular vote, and the idiots out there didn’t treat him any differently. So the argument is a complete red herring. It doesn’t matter how Obama won, folks on the Right would deny any sort of mandate. Remember the birthers?
Mick
November 14th, 2012
11:55 am
The house is the next target in 2014, we’ll get back to you on that…say goodbye to allen west on the way out…
eagle1
November 14th, 2012
11:57 am
Layoffs, layoffs, and more layoffs! Get ready folks, it’s coming! The economy is quickly going down the toilet with Oblamer!
Thulsa Doom
November 14th, 2012
11:57 am
Josef,
What are you doing here today? Shouldn’t you be out influencing and inculcating young minds? Or at the least edumucating them.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
11:58 am
“The economy is quickly going down the toilet with Oblamer!”
awwww … diddums … you guys crawled out of the bottom of the post-election scotch bottle and now you’re back to WATB mode.
welcome back.
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 14th, 2012
12:00 pm
josef@11:07 am
Is Del’s Indian name
छोटे मूत मूत है जो छोटी लड़की की तरह रोता
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
12:02 pm
Business can no longer afford to pay for the benefits everyone has come to take for granted. So now, to survive or secure their place in their market, they are turning it over to the government where employees will be footing completely their own healthcare and those that don’t work also. A huge shift of the burden will take place to taxpayers that do not have the means to take advantage of “loopholes”. The middle class will disappear or be “redefined ” by the government, possibly forced to join unions. adding another layer of “bosses”. The corral gate is open and the cattle are being led inside.
Banderson
November 14th, 2012
12:02 pm
“I am now predicting a 330 vote LANDSLIDE [for Mitt Romney] – Larry Kudlow
“I am predicting a 321-217 LANDSLIDE [for Mitt Romney] – George Will
“We’re going to win by a LANDSLIDE…Romney is going to carry 325 electoral votes” – Dick Morris
So, yeah, Obama won in a LANDSLIDE.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:03 pm
J. Konop — “The problem with your SS plan is it will not yield nearly enough money. The truth is our saving rate as a country is terrible. We need to increase revenues, especially with baby boomer generations killing ratios. That is why we need to change the formula for funding this via less workers and more retires. And that is why I proposed a VAT or national sales tax ie to widen the amount of people contributing.”
FWIW, I much prefer the idea advanced earlier; of lifting the income cap entirely and subjecting *all* income, including interest, to the SS tax.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:04 pm
Americans know it is bad to have a rubber stamp congress so they left a gop house for check on power.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
12:04 pm
Georgia Republicans still think they are relevant?
Not one inch outside of the state borders, they aren’t.
(Excluding the occasional boneheaded/”uppity” comment that produces nationwide laughter…)
A gaffe is when a Republican tells the truth.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
12:04 pm
Doesn’t take long for our conned to go back to the same old rejected, tired, proven wrong themes.
clem
November 14th, 2012
12:05 pm
unfortunately, by not having halfway reasonable folks in House (who live in the bubble) it is not much of an upper hand. they don’t care about joe sixpack, they rely on big business to fund their nonsense.
Concerned American
November 14th, 2012
12:07 pm
BarrackaClause will continue to take from the hard working americans and give to those who refuse to work! And people like Joy Bookmon will continue to be their biggest supporter! BarrackaClause has done nothing for our country but give to those that are too lazy to work. And yes he won the election! But I guess a child (or people with that mindset) will always vote with their foodstamp mentality! So I am certain the ignorants and like mindness people will respond to this. But I think I will go back to work so I won’t see the posts! Afterall, I need to go EARN my money so I can give it to all of the people on here that have time to respond! Outta here!
Welcome to the Occupation
November 14th, 2012
12:07 pm
mm: “Remove the income cap on SS tax. Apply the SS tax to capital gains, not just payroll income.”
Ain’t gonna happen. Not while capital owns our government.
weetamoe
November 14th, 2012
12:07 pm
Since only republicans in congress are responsible for the economy, and since Obama knew absolutely nothing about the stunningly reckless Fast and Furious operation under his watch, and since Obama knew/knows nothing about the incredible bungle and tragic deaths in Benghazi—he really is ex… -he really is irrelevant. After all, what’s a president for?
willie lynch
November 14th, 2012
12:08 pm
Some might not want to admit it but the election was a clear rejection of the positions of the right leaning groups in this country. The majority has spoken. Just as you who claim the right has kept it’s majority in the HOR therefore giving them the right to defend their majority position so has the majority of the country given President Obama this same right.
The language on the right has not changed they are still stuck in the same regressive mind set that has burdened the country for the past 4 years. The idea that President Obama has to come to the cons with hat in hand is another misstep that will cost the right in its journey toward relevancy. But as Grandma used to say ” A hard head makes for a soft a**.”
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
12:09 pm
clem…….just in the House?…….Yeah right….hahaha
independent thinker
November 14th, 2012
12:09 pm
Stick it to the cons Nancy- over the cliff and let all taxes go up unless the House passes the Senate bill on Clinton rates for the rich.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:10 pm
“Doesn’t take long for our conned to go back to the same old rejected, tired, proven wrong themes.”
Stay the course and expect a different result is exactly what I expected from the cons.
curious
November 14th, 2012
12:11 pm
Obama doesn’t know what’s going on just like Bush and Cheney did when they claimed to know where the WMDs were.
At least we have Trump still holding his secret.
St Simons
November 14th, 2012
12:12 pm
if we could educate the white southerners, the walmart republicans,
they wouldn’t have anybody left to bamboozle.
They know this too. Hence the Jaysus-rode-the-dinosaur-for-profit
private-bidness-scams-masquerading-as-skools-amendments
written by ALEC
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:12 pm
“At least we have Trump still holding his secret.”
what secret? what kind of wildlife is on his head???
alex
November 14th, 2012
12:13 pm
@deedree, Love it, see you at the Atl 1/2 marathon, THEN we can eat pie!!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:13 pm
B. Shockley — “Yeah right. That’s why the American voters sent a Republican majority back to the House of Representatives.”
Wrong, Ben. American voters didn’t vote on the overall makeup of the House. And if they *had,* Democrats would have control, as *more* votes were cast nationally for Democratic House candidates than for Republican ones.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/11/08/americans_actually_voted_for_a_democratic_house.html
“Brought to you by he same people who think a 50% – 48% popular vote victory is a “clear mandate.”
Yes! The Republicans! (giggling)
http://mediamatters.org/research/2008/11/04/in-2008-will-media-recall-2004-declarations-of/146033
The margin in 2004? Bush 50.7%, Kerry 48.3% (laughing, pointing)
“Liberals are so funny.”
If you say so, Benny.
indigo
November 14th, 2012
12:13 pm
USinUK – 10:09
Historical revision is a Republican speciality.
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 14th, 2012
12:13 pm
JamVet
Reb, lemme guess. You worked 23 hours a day and walked uphill both ways.
——————————————————
You left out barefoot and in the snow
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
12:14 pm
willie lynch……..why such a big hat in the first place…..and why does that hat seem to get larger every year?…..and when the hat is passed under armed escort and comes back empty, what then?
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:14 pm
Pie, pie, me oh my.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
12:14 pm
Since only republicans in congress are responsible for the economy…
Now that is a Bushwhine that never gets old.
Of course they are not solely responsible.
An when you apologists start broaching the subject of your not insignificant role in the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism, things will slowly start improving for your future electoral chances.
But you are still completely hung up on the false R v D paradigm.
There is very little difference.
Today’s Democrats today are to the right of yesterday’s liberal Republicans. They’ve abandoned labor, they’ve abandoned the poor. They’re the same on the trade agreements. They haven’t lifted a finger on raising the minimum wage. They extended Bush’s tax cuts. Obama doesn’t fight for what he believes in.
http://tinyurl.com/caowvww
retired liberal
November 14th, 2012
12:14 pm
Ahhhh-When will I get my free stuff? Been waiting–NO JOY–I WANT my FREE stuff and I want it now! Damm working class, got more stuff than I do and I want may Fair share. Where is it?? Obama promised so I want it NOW. It’s my money and I want it NOW !!!!!!! Takin’ my food stamps to the gin mill and gonna get drunk. Damm republicans, want to keep everything they make–so unfair–I got needs too, ya know . Come on, anti up you right wing snobs–just cause ya worked for it doesn’t mean you get to keep it–Obama say it’s NOT FAIR ! Whaaaaaaaaa!
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:16 pm
Melt down.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:17 pm
SSI — “Jaysus-rode-the-dinosaur-for-profit”
Giggle!
Hey, SSI, I crunched the numbers and I agree with you, PPP was the most accurate pollster. Electoral-Vote.com agrees, too.
Being entertained
November 14th, 2012
12:18 pm
Enter your comments here
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:19 pm
Who was not credible?
rw media but the cons still swallow every word.
Being entertained
November 14th, 2012
12:20 pm
Retired liberal nut!!!!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:21 pm
“Historical revision is a Republican speciality.”
that and denial.
Union
November 14th, 2012
12:22 pm
of course they will blame the republicans.. thats what obama tells the mindless wonders that voted for him.. libs and lemmings.. they have so many similarities its not even funny..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:22 pm
And the Cuckoo Con-Clock chimes 12:14 PM.
curious
November 14th, 2012
12:23 pm
the Republicans forced the sequestration bill thinking Obama would blink.
When he doesn’t blink and the economy goes to pot, the public needs to remember who put us in that position.
The republicans may be getting what they asked for.
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 14th, 2012
12:24 pm
I wonder how many jobs bills the cons present to congress.
Remember those are the ones that do away with womens rights or don’t have anything to do with jobs other than having ‘JOBS’ in the title.
St Simons
November 14th, 2012
12:25 pm
yeah Joe, they were sampling over 2.2k ‘hard’ calls every time, which
as you know gets up in the 99% confidence range, and were at least
attempting to accurately factor cell-only.
Gallup just forfeited everything, all those yrs of cred, to be a con
propaganda outfit like Ras & Unskewed.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:25 pm
“Obama promised so I want it NOW.”
really???
please, point us to an Obama quote … ANY Obama quote … where he promised the free stuff.
Bill Clinton
November 14th, 2012
12:25 pm
Repubs got a real sex scandal on their hands on just some seductive cigar sucking and fondling. Now their boy Petreaus says “he screwed up”. Yeah I know that speech unfortunately. And then he is going to testify to a bunch of Repub. hacks with sore butts from that ass whooping that Barack, Joe and I gave them last week. Kinda like ole Newt becoming an expert on illicit affairs and trying to impeach me. But We dems are onto their little plot to throw Barack out and defame Hillary.
Both he and Broadwell should be court martialed. This is about a lot more than a sordid affair by a star struck admirer. I know , and have some experience with this topic. It was a blatant attempt to unseat the president with a false story about the CIA having advance warning and holding terrorist prisoners in Begazhi. Fox News and the Romney folks ran with the Benghazi story to whip up votes and it failed. Broadwell gave a speech Oct. 26 in Denver in which she told this big lie and said it came from a reliable CIA source. No wonder Petreaus resigned when Romney lost. This harkens back to some of Nixon’s dirty tricks using the CIA to stop FBI investigations of Watergate. And guess who worked on dirty tricks for Nixon- frat boy Rove. And now we get Fox News and Murdock involved just like in Britain.
Where Eric Cantor gets roped in by jezebel no. 2 remains to be seen.She is kinda foxy; I would have made her honorary diplomat after vetting her.
Jm
November 14th, 2012
12:26 pm
Obama
He do love the European model
A failed model
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:26 pm
Looks like this election thumpin did not penetrate the con bubble.
Too funny.
Union
November 14th, 2012
12:26 pm
so you want to build a new house.. most people would find an architect and contractor.. obama goes and gets the guy that rakes the concrete to ask his advice..
guy
November 14th, 2012
12:27 pm
A lot of people on these comments are more concerned with who they like or dislike personally than the big problem. Call names,criticize,ridicule,and finding others to blame won’t change a thing. Both parties have not governed for years so here we are.Whether you love obama,romney,bush, or not is not going to matter a darn bit when we fall off the cliff. The far right and the far left in these posts are spewing their venom. Go for it and see what difference it makes. NONE! What a waste of energy and time! So ,so, sad and I’m sure there will be sarcastic remarks coming. Look around people!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:28 pm
“He do love the European model”
and your evidence is … ???
I’ll ask you he same thing … give us a quote – ANY quote – where Obama says something to support your (erroneous) statement.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:29 pm
SSI — “Gallup just forfeited everything, all those yrs of cred, to be a con propaganda outfit like Ras & Unskewed.”
Dean Chambers (the “Unskewed Polls” guy) apologized last week, but said that he’d do it again if he ever thought the polls were returning incorrect figures. So he pretty clearly hasn’t learned his lesson.
Plus, he needs at least two or three semesters of college-level Stats before he opens his pasty yap again.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
12:30 pm
look at the electoral college map. Does that look like a landslide?
As of today, dirt STILL does not vote.
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 14th, 2012
12:31 pm
sfd
Dirt STILL does not vote.
—————————————–
But dumb as dirt did and still lost the WH AGAIN
Being entertained
November 14th, 2012
12:31 pm
@UNION. You’re the mindless wonder. You voted for a mannequin.
Union
November 14th, 2012
12:32 pm
seem to recall how with katrina libs went after bush for being inefficient in the recovery efforts.. still waiting on a bookman blog on how obama supports the blocking of efforts to actually help recovery from sandy..
josef
November 14th, 2012
12:33 pm
COMMON SENSE
That was TOO funny!
He ne ha…
Just remember, though, the Pesky Savage DID get a better deal from the Southern u-ne-ga than from his Yankee cousin…big difference between Removal of the nation and blood genocide of the race…just to keep things in perspective…
larry
November 14th, 2012
12:34 pm
look at the electoral college map. Does that look like a landslide?
Name one Democrat who was up for re-election that lost on Nov. 6
I’ll be waiting.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:34 pm
“Looks like this election thumpin did not penetrate the con bubble.”
long may they reign.
Looney Bin
November 14th, 2012
12:35 pm
Who cares if Obama won by a ‘landslide’ or has a supposed ‘mandate’? He won the elction, enough said, let’s move on. Last I checked it’s not as though the Saints weren’t declared the winners of Sundays game against the Falcons because they only won by 4 points; a win is a win, and to the winner go the spoils….
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:35 pm
“Dirt STILL does not vote.”
and that’s why I’m dB’s biggest fan.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
12:35 pm
Howdy, JHM, saw this:
I feel compelled to point out that SS is an *insurance* program, not a savings plan. So I think your criticism might be misplaced, but I’m willing to hear you out.
Oh, I know what the “I” in FDIC stands for. I have repeatedly pointed out to the slower folks that it’s an insurance program. Well aware of that.
I’ll just say this again–I don’t believe you get any great savings by means-testing SS/Med so that a relatively few people will receive relatively little less. In fact, I see that approach, when offered as some kind of an olive branch from the right, with a great deal of suspicion, frankly. I think such an approach would only serve to erode public support since you could, theoretically, wind up roping in millions of upper-middle-class folks who’d be forced to cough up some symbolic extra dollars / receive symbolically less to the Dark Side, who’d start making noises about privatizing the whole thing.
I could go on, but in short, I think you get very little in the way of fiscal relief (but I will admit to not having any hard crunched numbers for that), and a *lot* in the way of future political grief, if you do that kind of means-testing.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:36 pm
Looney bin,
I like that comparison
Who dat?
Union
November 14th, 2012
12:36 pm
wonder why the states that are the most fiscally damaged tend to vote democrat time and time again.. must like being broke?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:38 pm
“wonder why the states that are the most fiscally damaged tend to vote democrat time and time again”
um. dearest. the majority of red states are net RECIPIENTS of your federal tax dollars while the BLUE states you so deride are the ones paying for them.
so you might want to read a little before you blog. you won’t look quite so stupid that way.
Thulsa Doom
November 14th, 2012
12:39 pm
In regards to all those polls that were oversampling dems by plus 7 aren’t there 7 or 8% more folks that identify themselves as dems anyhow? Thus making those polls accurate to begin with. Seems they were pretty accurate on the election.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:39 pm
Poke the bubble until it bursts .
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
12:41 pm
so you want to build a new house.. most people would find an architect and contractor.. obama goes and gets the guy that rakes the concrete to ask his advice..
ok, Union? hold onto that thought for just a teeny moment.
When we hear right wingers go on about the “liberally biased” media, and claim as proof of bias certain polling that apparently shows a majority of reporters vote Democratic?
Can you at least admit that reporters are, basically, the concrete rakers? They don’t own the media outlets, they don’t run them; they are assigned stories, and they cover them. That’s it.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:41 pm
SfD, I’m not trying to start an argument, but I’m having trouble reconciling two things you said. They are:
“I don’t believe you get any great savings by means-testing SS/Med so that a relatively few people will receive relatively little less.”
and
“you could, theoretically, wind up roping in millions of upper-middle-class folks who’d be forced to cough up some symbolic extra dollars / receive symbolically less”
It seems like you’re criticizing means-testing because too many *and* too few Americans would (simultaneously) be affected. Could you clarify a bit more, please?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
12:41 pm
<i….the mindless wonders that voted for him…
Says the brilliant Union.
DannyX
November 14th, 2012
12:42 pm
“Dirt STILL does not vote.”
Wait a minute. You mean we don’t live in a geocracy?????
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:42 pm
Pssst, we will get the Clinton economy again and the cons will just have to deal with the peace and prosperity coming.
willie lynch
November 14th, 2012
12:44 pm
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
12:14 pm
The metaphorical hat to which I was referring, seems to exist mainly in the mind of those on the right. Again, the re-election of President Obama has shown that the majority of the country backs his program therefore he doesn’t have to assume this position. The idea that the Republicans have some sort of clarion call to arms by their retaining the HOR is silly since they drew the lines (redistricting) for the express purpose of retaining the majority they have. Let’s not forget they did lose seats in the House and Senate.
To your question of an empty hat, I would think the cons would be the biggest losers in that outcome since (as stated above) the majority of the country agrees with President Obama. For those on the right to continue their cold war tactics further illustrates how out of touch they are with the majority and the pervasive ignorance that guides their beliefs. The way forward is not being led by the right.
josef
November 14th, 2012
12:44 pm
THULSA
@ 11:57
Round of doctor visits…took the rest of the day off…
Jm
November 14th, 2012
12:44 pm
Usinuk
I don’t care about anything you have to say or ask
independent thinker
November 14th, 2012
12:45 pm
“retired liberal” – I agree with you. Us Dems do not get the free stuff like the 1% and that’s whats wrong with the economy.Ole Cheney and Halliburton they sure knew how to get them government dollars. Just google up Delphi and Romney and you will see how that boy and his poor wife made millions off of the auto bailout money your boy Barack handed out to Delphi. Them cons go for the big dollars when they get free stuff.. Then they packed all them union workers at Delphi up and sent them to the unemployment office. Chinese can do the same thing twelve hours a day below minimum wage with no benefits – no free stuff over there; that’s why the 1% love them Chinese. And they don’t have to worry about falling off some cliff.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:45 pm
Did y’all sign the petition to leave the Union?
You want our country to collapse so your State can beak away right cons?
sam
November 14th, 2012
12:45 pm
recent poll shows current GOP to be irrelevant and out of touch.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
12:46 pm
Why does everyone tout the “Clinton Economy”? He was the luckiest president ever. He rode the dot com false economy bubble. Fortunately for him, the bubble burst around the time he left office, thereby shuffling the carnage over to the next administration.
Union
November 14th, 2012
12:46 pm
usinuk.. may want to take your own advice.. where do the federal tax dollars come from?
@ sfd.. my point being.. obama has a business council.. you may not be familiar with the concept.. but it is comprised of employers that create jobs.. obama brings in the labor unions to get their advice.. how did that work out for those hostess employees? while the labor unions have his ear.. he may want to suggest they stop blocking the recovery efforts..
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:47 pm
jm,
No need in being rude.
Apologize.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:48 pm
Union – 12:45 – BLUE STATES, you numpty – or do you just not understand what the phrase “net recipient” means.
sheesh.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:48 pm
noneya,
Actually, government invested in the Internet like they are doing with green energy and yes, some failed.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:48 pm
Jm – “I don’t care about anything you have to say or ask”
I’m sure you don’t since you’re a pathological liar who has never been able to substantiate any of the BS you spew here.
Old Goober
November 14th, 2012
12:49 pm
How about vanishing benefits? Retirees with an AGI up to, let’s say $40K, can receive full SS benefits and Medicare. And then benefits fade out on a schedule like this:
What is there about the word insurance that you folks don’t understand? Why do you insist on treating Social Security Insurance as a welfare benefit? Isn’t it enough that the SSI insured at upper income levels are already penalized by virtue of the formula used to calculate benefits? I’m especially embarrassed for you, JHM, that you would fall into the essentially Republican trap of regarding SS as a government handout, rather than an earned benefit.
If the premiums are insufficient to fund the program, raise the premiums. If longevity is now the problem, raise the retirement age again. But don’t treat SS as some kind of handout, as though people haven’t contributed to the program for 40 or 50 years of their lives. In short, don’t “welch” on those covered by SS.
Jm
November 14th, 2012
12:49 pm
Pelosi is like every other power hungry democrat
Doesn’t know when to quit
Bill Campbell
November 14th, 2012
12:49 pm
We all know the truth that Obama is still clueless and waiting for some smart people to come up with some solutions!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:49 pm
Doom — “In regards to all those polls that were oversampling dems by plus 7 aren’t there 7 or 8% more folks that identify themselves as dems anyhow? Thus making those polls accurate to begin with. Seems they were pretty accurate on the election.”
If you’ve done a good job of randomizing your survey population selection (IOW, you’re really choosing at random from the universe of possible selectees), then any potential demographic error is already accounted for within the Margin of Error. That’s one of the first things they teach you in any intro-level survey research course; how to randomly select and how to mathematically determine the MOE. If you know the universe size and your N (number of samples/persons in your poll), you can easily figure the MOE.
IMO, what the Romney campaign *should* have gotten from the polls that consistently showed a lot of Democrats in their numbers was this — ‘f**k, those guys put a cattle brand on us and now we’re likely to lose.’ It should have scared the bejebus out of them.
Pollsters who tried to impose some imaginary turnout percentage *before the fact,* like Rasmussen, were just fooling themselves. There’s *no way* to tell what the turnout percentage *will* be, because so many factors go into it. If it snows heavily in NY on Election Day, that will depress turnout (possibly helping Rs), but if NY had heavy early voting, then Election Day weather wouldn’t count as much (thereby helping Ds).
Fact of the matter is that you *can’t* know ahead of time what the turnout will be. But a lot of pollsters thought they had a method sussed out to do it anyway.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:52 pm
Speaker Pelosi wants to be Speaker one more time.
You reelected the turtle that lost huge jm.
Way to hold him accountable for not getting our President jm.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 14th, 2012
12:52 pm
Interesting CBS Headline:
“Israel Assassinates Hamas Commander”
Did their previous headline say:
1) Untied States Assassinates Bin Laden
2) United States Kills Bin Laden
???
bookmanisaliar
November 14th, 2012
12:52 pm
Obama Golfs While Millions Still Don’t Have Power, Gasoline, or Homes.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 14th, 2012
12:52 pm
Excuse me: “United” …….. although “untied” now may be more applicable after all.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
12:54 pm
Scout – Dyslexics of the world … UNTIE!
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:54 pm
scout,
Israel hit the back seat of his car with a perfect shot.
Looks like more war for Israel.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
12:55 pm
O. Goober — “What is there about the word insurance that you folks don’t understand? Why do you insist on treating Social Security Insurance as a welfare benefit?”
It’s not an earned benefit. It’s *insurance* against poverty in old age. If you’re *well-off* financially in old age, you shouldn’t be able to claim the benefit.
It’s just like term life insurance; if you don’t die during the term, you don’t get anything back. So if you retire and you’re not hurting for cash, IMO you shouldn’t be able to collect SS.
“Isn’t it enough that the SSI insured at upper income levels are already penalized by virtue of the formula used to calculate benefits? I’m especially embarrassed for you, JHM, that you would fall into the essentially Republican trap of regarding SS as a government handout, rather than an earned benefit.”
I think you’ve completely misunderstood my position and my argument. I’m not treating SS like *either* of those things because it *isn’t* either of those things.
“If the premiums are insufficient to fund the program, raise the premiums. If longevity is now the problem, raise the retirement age again. But don’t treat SS as some kind of handout, as though people haven’t contributed to the program for 40 or 50 years of their lives. In short, don’t “welch” on those covered by SS.”
There’s no “welching” with insurance if you don’t meet the terms of the insurance contract. If I outlive my half-mil term life policy, I don’t get beans back. And if I retire well-off, I shouldn’t get beans back in SSI benefits, either.
sam
November 14th, 2012
12:55 pm
“the bubble burst around the time he left office, thereby shuffling the carnage over to the next administration”
sounds awfully familiar doesnt it?
DannyX
November 14th, 2012
12:55 pm
“Gallup just forfeited everything, all those yrs of cred, to be a con
propaganda outfit like Ras & Unskewed.”
Remember last summer when the right was attacking Gallup because they thought they were favoring Democrats? Gallup caved under the pressure. The right wing pundits got Gallup to fall for the “Democratic voters aren’t motivated and won’t show up on election day” crap.
Gallup has a very faulty “likely voter” model. I predicted the final results would show Gallup’s final “registered voter” poll would be closer than their final “likely voter” poll, and I was right.
The final results show Obama winning 50.6 to 47.8 which is a difference of 2.8%. Gallup’s final likely voter poll had Obama +3. Likely voter Romney +1.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
12:56 pm
It seems like you’re criticizing means-testing because too many *and* too few Americans would (simultaneously) be affected. Could you clarify a bit more, please?
I was just checking to see if you were paying attention.
Ok, these apparently contradictory concerns really aren’t. I recognize that if you were to, say, rope in a million upper-middle-classers into paying more, that raw number might sound somewhat impressive, but I can’t imagine that it would make much of a fiscal dent.
However, if you take a random bunch of a million people who were previously not especially pre-disposed to dislike the very popular SS and Medicare programs, and start chipping away at their benefits–particularly those who’ve “paid into the system” (as folks are wont to say) all their lives, you’ve all of a sudden enlisted a million recruits into the New Norquist Army. Their influence may very well outsize their raw numbers–consider, if you will, that Fox News’ most popular programs only snag a couple million viewers per night, but they are still the “Number 1 Cable News Source”–and with time and money to burn, they could make things very difficult for sane politicians who want to keep these crucial programs afloat.
That make sense?
Banderson
November 14th, 2012
12:56 pm
Interesting headline:
Lamborghini to Decide on SUV in Coming Months
Guess the extinction of the rich may be overexagerated a bit.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/2012/11/14/lamborghini-decide-suv-coming-months/kNJcK42etcYSQGUlSfffQL/story.html
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
12:57 pm
sam – yeah the democrats are just more skilled in shuffling blame.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
12:58 pm
…don’t get me wrong, I am not ideologically dead set against the notion of means-testing. I can see why it sounds reasonable. I even happen to have an elderly in-law who has been saying for years that HE doesn’t need the benefit.
I just don’t believe its very modest fiscal benefits outweigh the political risks.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:58 pm
After the Internet bubble popped, investors were looking for investments and the two options were green energy or housing.
They chose housing and the rest is history.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
12:59 pm
The only scandal with this President is a republican’s affair.
Grasshopper
November 14th, 2012
1:00 pm
“recent poll shows current GOP to be irrelevant and out of touch.”
Although recent elections in the US House and state governorships prove otherwise.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
1:01 pm
” Lamborghini to Decide on SUV in Coming Months”
oh my god.
there is so much wrong with that sentence, it’s hard to choose where to start.
Jeremy Clarkson will weep openly.
DannyX
November 14th, 2012
1:01 pm
“The final results show Obama winning 50.6 to 47.8 which is a difference of 2.8%. Gallup’s final likely voter poll had Obama +3. Likely voter Romney +1.”
Whoops, should have been, Gallup’s final REGISTERED voter poll had Obama +3. Likely voter Romney +1.
MadMax
November 14th, 2012
1:02 pm
Nice graph, however if you see what’s happening, the “Sandy” bounce is running out. Let’s bring this one back after the folks in NY/NJ have a chance to evaluate how “effective” the President has been. I think there’s a certain irony in Sandy, big east liberals get to live in post Katrina environment. So far, the press has not attacked Obama for the logistical issues like they did W, but as time goes by and the cold moves in and these folks find out that the government will not rebuild their homes and that they have to do it themselves, we may see a shift in polling. There’s a difference between looking presidential and getting things done. Obama played the Sandy event for all it’s political worth and got the desired effect. Now he has to achieve something and that has not been his strong point.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
1:02 pm
There are more millionaires in our country under President Obama and there will be many more added.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
1:02 pm
hang on a minute–I dimly recall Lamborghini used to have a superduper expensive SUV back in the day…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_LM002
whew. I wasn’t imagining it.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
1:03 pm
“Although recent elections in the US House” … was decided by the 2011 “gerrymandering bonanza”
F. Sinkwich
November 14th, 2012
1:05 pm
Why is the fiscal cliff of any concern to Jay and the clump of clueless collectivists here? One would think that the prospect of massive tax increases and slashed defense spending would red-line their nirvana meter.
Regardless, anything short of total capitulation by the republicans to O’bozo and his loonie leftie legislators will be met with total derision, ridicule, and scorn by their MSM amen choir.
Opposition at this point is a fool’s errand. The country has spoken. Majorities want freedom and liberty replaced by a welfare state. O’bozo has succeeded in radically transforming what was once the last best hope for mankind.
RIP USA 1776-2012
Marx on, Comrades!
Mr Right
November 14th, 2012
1:06 pm
Apparently winning less than 51% of the vote in the election means the libs can bash the GOP! I still remember the 2010 elections, yup, the GOP will live to see another day in spite of what the libs say!
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
1:06 pm
guy
November 14th, 2012
12:27 pm
Finally a voice of reason..nice work
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
1:06 pm
Re Social Security:
Put me in the “Screw means testing” camp. What needs to be done first before any kind of tinkering happens is that we need to create sustainable J-O-B-S and not just the burger flipping kind. More people working equals more revenues without doing anything to tax rates/percentages. The better paying the job, the more money that flows into Social Security. We’ve been on a steady decline of jobs since the 1970’s as we have had recession after recession followed by “jobless” recoveries.
Our problems are due to a lack of revenues, but it’s not because of tax rates. We need jobs!!!!
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:07 pm
Speaking of SUVs, I’ll tell you some “Bush tax cuts” that should expire. The huge Section 179 deduction for SUVs. IRS, you could generate a lot of tax revenue by auditing every business that took the huge Sec. 179 deduction on SUVs.
alex
November 14th, 2012
1:07 pm
Fun movie, great song…
Mandate–shmandate, divided country, both sides have to compromise, if they do not nothing will get done, fingers will point, and we’ll all be worse off for it, Can’t tax out of it , can’t remove al ot of bennies….
Erwin's cat
November 14th, 2012
1:08 pm
Our problems are due to a lack of revenues, but it’s not because of tax rates. We need jobs!!!!
hear hear
Jefferson
November 14th, 2012
1:08 pm
sinkwich is definately full.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
1:09 pm
The cons lost two more seats in the US Senate. And remember how they were drooling about how the Dems had so many more Senate seats than they, that were up for re-election?
And in the House the cons had 19 incumbents get sent packing, for a net loss of nine.
All in all, the GOP pretty much got smeared last week…
Jefferson
November 14th, 2012
1:10 pm
Apathy makes for a sorry american.
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
1:11 pm
sfd
Dirt STILL does not vote.
—————————————–
But dumb as dirt did and still lost the WH AGAIN
Mick
November 14th, 2012
1:12 pm
sink
What kind of candy azz american are you? Stop the whining and remember the congress makes laws and the gop has been in control of the house 14 of the last 18 years!
It’s is beyond sad that your side sets the bar for the term “sore losers”, you wear it well…
DannyX
November 14th, 2012
1:12 pm
“RIP USA 1776-2012″
Sinkwich, get a hold of yourself and stop being such a hysterical drama queen.
MadMax
November 14th, 2012
1:12 pm
Get – if we keep printing money, eventually, everyone will be a millionaire; But possibly, the million dollar threshold will be the poverty line by then,
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:13 pm
SfD — “Their influence may very well outsize their raw numbers–consider, if you will, that Fox News’ most popular programs only snag a couple million viewers per night, but they are still the “Number 1 Cable News Source”–and with time and money to burn, they could make things very difficult for sane politicians who want to keep these crucial programs afloat.”
“That make sense?”
Mmmhh . . . yes and no. I think I understand where your objection is coming from, but it seems to be expressed as ‘let’s not pizz off the proles.’
Frankly, I think that voters need to be *reminded* that SS isn’t a Federal retirement program and was never meant to be; that most Americans won’t make it if SS is all they have; that Americans can easily go down to their bank and open a retirement account and that the original — and current — purpose of SS was to save your bacon if you retired in poverty. I think Americans need to be reminded that SS is *insurance* and that’s how they should be thinking of the program — and I think that public opinion could be redirected with enough effort on that score.
Besides that, when you remind people that SS is insurance and not a retirement program, it kinda cuts the legs out from under a lot of conservative arguments about privatizing SS or ‘I wanna invest mah munneez MAH way.’
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 14th, 2012
1:13 pm
To paraphrase Beldar Conehead:
~It is as if we have grabbed them by the base of their snarglies~
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
1:13 pm
Joe H M,
…….. FWIW, I much prefer the idea advanced earlier; of lifting the income cap entirely and subjecting *all* income, including interest, to the SS tax..
Once again it will not work over time via less workers and more retires. Right now Medicare pays out 2 to 3 times what someone contributes while working. Seriously it is simple math without adding more people paying you cannot tax your way out with payroll tax. And with the savings rate being so low, you do not have enough people that qualify for your reduced payout plan. The only way out is cutting cost and increasing people that contribute. The upside to a VAT or national sales tax is you have contribution from foreign tourism and business via their expenditures. Also the wealthy do consume way more than lower income people. Finally, a NST or VAT would be no different or less to lower income people than payroll taxes today.
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
1:14 pm
EC @ 1:08
I have yet to hear a single friggin’ economist make that fact known. That’s why I don’t give many of the talking mouthpieces much of an audience for anything. Until we address the basics, none of the other stuff matters.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
1:14 pm
The McCarthyites just suffered their third humiliating defeat in the past four elections.
What gives, Andy?
You manly Republicans can’t even beat a few pinkos?
LOL…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 14th, 2012
1:15 pm
Let ALL the Bush tax cuts expire and then turn around and give the middle class a tax cut (so it will be a wash for them.)
You don’t even have to discuss it with Republicans!
Obama to Boehner: “Tell it to the hand, Boehner; talk to the hand.”
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:17 pm
Brosephus — “Our problems are due to a lack of revenues, but it’s not because of tax rates. We need jobs!!!!”
I don’t disagree at all.
I think we were talking about budgety, wonky things because that’s where the thread started.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
1:19 pm
Joe H M,
BTW I am not saying not to do any means testing, I am just saying your formula does not add up via the ratio of low savings, large increase of ratio of retires to workers and not enough wealthy people.
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:19 pm
Ah the lib myth of gerrymandering. Funny, I thought the gerymandering was after the 2010 election where the Reps did even better in the House than after the gerrymandering. Romney won 24 states, the Reps hold 30 of the governor spots. If you take the Presidential results by county it’s a Republican rout. Truth is they have to gerrymander districts to get more minority/liberal representation because the libs only constitute a majority in urban areas.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:19 pm
Brocephus – I hear what you’re saying about creating jobs, and no need to raise tax rates. However, since job creation and economic recovery are issues of public confidence, what can be done to create meaningful jobs? There is no public confidence now. We don’t generate sufficient tax revenues to reinstate Roosevelt era public works programs. What’s the solution?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:21 pm
J. Konop — “Once again it will not work over time via less workers and more retires.”
Not sure I follow you. You’re advocating more workers added into the revenue mix. I’m advocating more workers *and* more investors into the mix. Either you’re misunderstanding me or I’m misunderstanding you — or both.
“Right now Medicare pays out 2 to 3 times what someone contributes while working. Seriously it is simple math without adding more people paying you cannot tax your way out with payroll tax.”
I think you’ve missed a post or two of mine. I advocated applying FICA to *all* income — from all sources — a page or two ago. That’s not just workers, that’s investors as well.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
1:22 pm
“Ah the lib myth of gerrymandering”
right. so when the Dems were accused of it, it was a fact, when the GOP does it, it’s a myth.
laugh. flipping. riot.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:22 pm
Joe – aren’t you creating a 7.65% tax rate increase?
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
1:23 pm
Brosephus,
I would argue eliminating payroll taxes and using a VAT or NST would increase jobs.
I would argue making the cuts I proposed and reinvesting into infrastructure would create jobs
I would argue creating an even playing field between big business and small business would create jobs, by eliminating the breaks to them and lowering the rates to small business.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:24 pm
A. Shrugged — “If you take the Presidential results by county it’s a Republican rout.”
If you take the raw popular vote, we retained the White House, the Senate and took the House as well. You’re outnumbered and surrounded, son.
Name me one Democrat incumbent at the Federal level who ran for office and lost on Election Day.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
1:24 pm
We live in a democracy now……right?
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:24 pm
SS – Take off the cap for collecting, raise the retirement age. Income tax – Lower the rates and flatten the brackets, eliminate most of the deductions and credits, and tax cap;ital gains and dividends at the same rates as ordinary income, jus tlike the bi-partisan committee suggested. It’s fair, as long as you consider progressive tax rates fair, and it limits the damage to the weak recovery.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:25 pm
Joe – I’d say that if investment income is taxed at 7.65% FICA, there should be no consideration at all for phasing out benefits based on income. Fair is fair.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
1:26 pm
Republican gerrymandering … the facts
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-gops-gerrymandered-advantages/2012/11/13/4785e4d6-2d2f-11e2-a99d-5c4203af7b7a_story.html
As The Post’s Aaron Blake reported, Democrats narrowly outpolled Republicans in the total number of votes cast for congressional candidates. The margin varies depending on whether you count the races in which candidates ran unopposed and those in which members of the same party faced off (as happened in several California districts). But any way you count it, the Democrats came out ahead — in everything but the number of House seats they won.
Consider Pennsylvania, where President Obama won 52 percent of the votes cast, and Democratic Sen. Bob Casey defeated his Republican rival, 53 percent to 45 percent. Yet Democrats won just five of that state’s 18 U.S. House seats. They carried both districts in the Philadelphia area — by 85 percent and 89 percent, respectively — and three other districts, by 77, 69 and 61 percent. Of the 13 districts where Republicans prevailed, GOP candidates won seven with less than 60 percent of the vote; in only one district did the Republican candidate’s total exceed 65 percent of the votes cast.
Why such lopsided numbers? Because Republican-controlled redistricting after the 2010 Census packed Democratic voters into a handful of imaginatively shaped districts around Pennsylvania’s urban centers and created a slew of GOP districts in the rest of the state. The overwhelming Democratic margins in the two heavily African American Philadelphia districts didn’t require constructing oddly shaped districts, but carving up the rest of the state to minimize districts that Democrats might win required politically driven line-drawing of the highest order.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 14th, 2012
1:26 pm
America Shrugging
Well first you’ll never succeed with posture like that.
Stand up straight.
Are you admitting to the entire blog that you don’t know the basic civics surrounding census and redistricting?
Do Highlights, Seventeen or Boys World have blog space for you?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:26 pm
Nunna Yobinnes — “Joe – aren’t you creating a 7.65% tax rate increase?”
Another poster wisely pointed out that broadening the FICA applicability to all income types (and removing the income cap) would allow us to lower the rates at some point.
This is the Republican idea of broaden-the-base-and-lower-the-rates at work, right before your eyes.
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:27 pm
USINUK – Of course both parties gerrymander districts, that’s not the point. You act like 50.6% makes the lib way the only way and the American way. Fine, so please tell me why we have 60% godless heathen Rep governors. No gerrymandering there.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
1:27 pm
“Name me one Democrat incumbent at the Federal level who ran for office and lost on Election Day.”
oh! oh! oh!!
I know this one!!
pick me!!
Mick
November 14th, 2012
1:28 pm
Raise the retirement age? How’s about lowering it? Know any constuction workers that are getting up at the age of 66 ready for labor? What about anyone that’s 55, feel like thats a good age to kick back maybe?
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
1:29 pm
Besides that, when you remind people that SS is insurance and not a retirement program, it kinda cuts the legs out from under a lot of conservative arguments about privatizing SS or ‘I wanna invest mah munneez MAH way.’
Well, I’ll give you that much.
And you’ll get no argument from me in the need to educate Americans on the need to sock it away for the future. If you want a truly sobering set of numbers–and mind you, this chart ends BEFORE the meltdown:
median value of holdings
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=549&Topic2id=49
family net worth
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=547&Topic2id=49
Again, I suspect the numbers have decreased significantly since these charts were published, and the 2007 numbers don’t exactly give you the warm/fuzzies.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
1:29 pm
“You act like 50.6% makes the lib way the only way and the American way. Fine, so please tell me why we have 60% godless heathen Rep governors. No gerrymandering there.”
you seem to confuse state-wide races with congressional races.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:29 pm
Nunna Yobinnes — “Joe – I’d say that if investment income is taxed at 7.65% FICA, there should be no consideration at all for phasing out benefits based on income.”
Why? SS is *insurance.* As I’ve been saying for most of this thread, if you outlive your term life policy, you don’t get jack back from your insurer. If I outlive my policy, then my premiums will go toward paying off a policy for some guy that died while *his* policy was in force. That’s how insurance works.
And it should be how SS works. Only those at or near poverty should be receiving benefits from it. If you’re well-off in retirement, you shouldn’t be able to collect on it, just like I shouldn’t be able to collect on my life policy if I outlive it.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 14th, 2012
1:31 pm
And with that … I’m away home …
have a good night, all!!
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:32 pm
sfd – how do you encourage a society to invest for their future retirement years, when they thought they WERE doing that, and now their 401-k or IRA is worth 40% or less of what it used to be?
Mick
November 14th, 2012
1:33 pm
**If you’re well-off in retirement, you shouldn’t be able to collect on it,**
Bullfeathers, you pay into it, you should get back from it, end of story. No changing the rules in the middle of the game, that is truly un-american!!!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:34 pm
SfD — “Again, I suspect the numbers have decreased significantly since these charts were published, and the 2007 numbers don’t exactly give you the warm/fuzzies.”
Creepin’ Cheebus. That makes me want to save harder and faster.
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:35 pm
Granny – Say what? I think I understand it well enough. States gain or lose seats in congress every ten years based on the census results. In most cases state legislatures then do the re-districting. In some states the governor gets a final say and in others the justice dept has to approve the plan to preserve minority representation. Any of that inaccurate or conflicting wih anything I posted please let me know. Otherwise please admit you don’t understand the process.
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
1:35 pm
BRO
Of course you are correct about jobs..what we know for sure is that 100% of either supply side or demand side philosophies work in and of themselves…taxing the “rich” will not really make much of a dent…especially if like me, you feel that they have already been spent..
We need to get banks lending…IMO the only way that will happen is if we break em all up…otherwise, eliminate the concept of too big to fail..
We have a capitalist society sans a very important element…competition…not for silly cell phones or other luxuries, we need banks to lend…
getalife
November 14th, 2012
1:37 pm
There is only one party that voted no on ending SS and Medicare.
It is ignorant to allow our congress to get their corrupt hands on SS and Medicare.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:37 pm
I don’t know Stevie Ray – “You can’t borrow your way out of debt.”
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:37 pm
Mick — “Bullfeathers, you pay into it, you should get back from it, end of story.”
Try that line on an insurer. Any insurer.
If you don’t get sick, you don’t get your health insurance premiums back.
If you don’t die, you don’t get your life insurance premiums back (well, you can via an ROP policy, but I understand those are rarely sold).
If your house doesn’t burn down, you don’t get a refund on your homeowner’s policy.
This is how insurance has always worked, and SS *is* insurance. It has been since Day One.
“No changing the rules in the middle of the game, that is truly un-american!!!”
I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but maybe you should go read up on OASDI (the ‘technical name’ for SS), how it came to be and how it works. You’ll find that it’s *insurance,* just as I’m telling you.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
1:38 pm
We live in a democracy now……right?
We have since 1789.
There was ONLY ONE Incumbent US Senator who was not returned to office.
And with that defeat, a hale and hearty congratulations goes out to Elizabeth Warren!
Consumer advocate and a real threat to banksters and white collar criminals everywhere!
MadMax
November 14th, 2012
1:38 pm
For all those making the “SSI” is an insurance arguement. You only buy insurance for things you want/need to protect. If I’m well off, and prudent, why would I buy insurance for something I will never need? I’d agree it’s a surtax (because I have no choice but to pay it and it’s paid with my after tax income). but insurance, no. That’s a stretch even in post Obamacare SCOTUS America. It’s more like those surcharges on your phone or cable bill. They look and smell like a tax but they are not a tax.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
1:38 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:32 pm
sfd – how do you encourage a society to invest for their future retirement years, when they thought they WERE doing that, and now their 401-k or IRA is worth 40% or less of what it used to be?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why you deregulate the banks, insurance companies and Wall Street so they can transfer the rest of that 60% over to the uber rich where it belongs………
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
1:39 pm
how do you encourage a society to invest for their future retirement years, when they thought they WERE doing that, and now their 401-k or IRA is worth 40% or less of what it used to be?
Hey, I’m just the unpaid help, how would I know?
but living wages, medicare for all, improved infrastructure, make it so people don’t have to blow quite so much of their income on transportation and internet access (have I mentioned today how badly screwed we are on that?)–this is the kind of stuff a progressive government can advance.
so, you know, work on that.
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm
JOE
I agree but also disagree on your statement that SS is insurance. Premiums are paid and benefits are defined to be certain…more like an annuity…It bears no resemblance to it’s original intent….but with insurance, you have to actually have assets to offset current and future obligations…and future tax payers payables don’t count…unfortunately for us, we will never recover but a fraction of what we have put in…
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm
Getalife – I always heard that LBJ basically “borrowed” a huge sum from SS for regular budget purposes, and never paid it back (probably followed by more administrations). Correct? Incorrect?
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm
US – I’m not confusing anything. You act like America has spoken and it’s all Dems all the time. I’m telling you the Dems pretty much only win urban areas and gerrymandered districts, because that’s where there constituents live, which explains why they have the minority of governors and congressmen.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm
Here is he first rule in losing – when you get smoked, do not pretend that you didn’t.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
1:41 pm
Joe H M,
….. Not sure I follow you. You’re advocating more workers added into the revenue mix. I’m advocating more workers *and* more investors into the mix. Either you’re misunderstanding me or I’m misunderstanding you — or both….
The problem is Medicare pays out about 2 to 3 the amount a worker contributes over the time they had a job. This amount is increasing via healthcare rising way faster than GDP. You understand without making cuts you cannot tax your way out?
Second baby boomers are creating way more retries than workers via a ratios we have never seen in our country. Using a payroll taxes with a shrinking ratio to fund a growing ration of retired people will be a disaster over time. By replacing it with a VAT or NST now you have everybody who buys something paying into the system. Also you have businesses, tourist…….also helping to fund the entitlement. Also if done right we could slowly start putting away annuities for younger people that would eventually get us out of this mess on the SS side.
Finally this is why your formula will not work, we do not have enough rich people to fund the vast majority over time. The current formula only worked if you are growing workers verse retires. BTW we know this is true via the pension, healthcare problems companies, states……are facing today with retired people.
Read below if you think I am wrong. That is why if we do not widen people paying in via NST or a VAT it will not add up.
Pew Study Finds States Face $2.73 Trillion Bill for Retiree Benefits
http://www.pewtrusts.org/news_room_detail.aspx?id=32368
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
1:42 pm
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm
US – I’m not confusing anything. You act like America has spoken and it’s all Dems all the time. I’m telling you the Dems pretty much only win urban areas and gerrymandered districts, because that’s where there constituents live, which explains why they have the minority of governors and congressmen.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is that the new talk radio/Fox news line?
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
1:44 pm
By replacing it with a VAT or NST
um… Replace? no. We have to own up to how we’ll need to amend our existing income taxes with additional sales taxes, and maybe we’ll get somewhere.
Because if one seriously talks about replacing income taxes with a VAT, one is off to FairTax la-la land. I’ll leave that to Neal Boortz and the Scientologists.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
1:44 pm
noneya,
They should payback the iou’s, return to full employment and cut corporate welfare instead.
It is time for corporate power to take some personal responsibility and run their corporations without welfare.
Also, there is a new revenue stream by taxing legal weed in legal States.
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:46 pm
Fred – If that’s the best you can come up with you should share the pointy hat with getalife. Please tell me why 30 of the governors are Republican if America loves the liberal Dem way?
Mick
November 14th, 2012
1:46 pm
joe
Sorry, but your “interpretation” doesn’t wash and I’ll be collecting what I put in just like whole life insurance.
Otherwise, let me take my own money from the beginning and invest it, then call me a republican…
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
1:47 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:37 pm
Agreed but that’s not my point..point is that the banks righted their balance sheets with our dough and now they have trillions of capital to employ to fund mortages, business expansions, new business development, R&D and the like…but they won’t…..there are a litany of reasons why but seems we should break them up if not solely to generate a competition to put that money to work…government can’t create a meaningful amount of permanent jobs…no matter what…
We need a no-holds barred plan to reduce deficit and debt that is believable…the problem is that the tax increases are hard to undue while spending cuts are easy to defer…I don’t believe a lick of anything out of DC that cuts spending…what track record do we have?
alex
November 14th, 2012
1:47 pm
Ok to pay into ss and get less out if this philanthropy is recognized in tax benefits or health care benefits ……
@Nunna, Look to the LOOOOng term, be smart, read Bogle papers and pray like hell……..
getalife
November 14th, 2012
1:48 pm
shrugged,
Do not pretend you are smarter than others because you are not.
Thanks.
alex
November 14th, 2012
1:51 pm
@ Stevei, can we believe the banks marking after the mortgage debacle ?But yes the banks and GM were right at the expense of the public and bond-holders./ Well at least The great Octopus has fewer parteners named this year than in years past…..
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:53 pm
Alex – weren’t the banks “forced” to lend to unworthy credit risks? I think the government has to share the blame in the “mortgage debacle”.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
1:53 pm
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:46 pm
Fred – If that’s the best you can come up with you should share the pointy hat with getalife. Please tell me why 30 of the governors are Republican if America loves the liberal Dem way?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Does that mean you don’t know the answer to my legitimate question or does that mean you DO know and are too ashamed to answer?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
1:56 pm
…the Dems pretty much only win urban areas…
Hello?
Does that mean that Repubs pretty much only win where there are lots of cows, pigs and chickens?
The answer in both cases is yes.
The GOP has, with its Southern Strategy, apparently permanently ceded both coasts and the upper Midwest to the Democrats.
That means virtually all of America’s greatest centers of commerce, education and culture…
Not good for the once Grand Old Party…
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
1:57 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
1:53 pm
Alex – weren’t the banks “forced” to lend to unworthy credit risks? I think the government has to share the blame in the “mortgage debacle”.
++++++++++++++++
Nope. They did it on their own. It worked out really well for them. They made the bad loans. They forced people making the bad loans to pay PMI in case they defaulted, (and the PMI companies are owned by the bank) and then when folks defaulted they didn’t use the money paid into PMI, the stuck us, the US taxpayer with the bill. Oh and to make it sweeter, they also foreclosed on the houses.
So they got their loan money back, they got the propoerty, AND they got to keep the money that they raped people for years (and still are) for PMI.
Sweet deal if you can get it. Why are YOU defending this crap? I thought you were one of them “capitalism” dudes.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
1:58 pm
It is time for corporate power to take some personal responsibility and run their corporations without welfare.
That’s what I’m talking about!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UbbFoEAE1I
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 14th, 2012
1:59 pm
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
1:35 pm
Granny – Say what? I think I understand it well enough. States gain or lose seats in congress every ten years based on the census results. In most cases state legislatures then do the re-districting. In some states the governor gets a final say and in others the justice dept has to approve the plan to preserve minority representation. Any of that inaccurate or conflicting wih anything I posted please let me know. Otherwise please admit you don’t understand the process.
.
.
.
I not only understand the process….I reminded folks of the consequences of sporadic voting late in 2010 right at this very blog.
Perhaps you could just tighten up your prose and open up your mind.
Perhaps not.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
1:59 pm
I have yet to hear a single friggin’ economist make that fact known.
wait a minute–doesn’t Krugman count? He’s always talking about the need to focus on jobs jobs jobs. In fact, he is getting tired of trying to reason with you people, I hear.
(and not just Krugthulu of course, but guys like Reich and my favorite “recovering economist,” Atrios.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:01 pm
The Dems won the argument by winning the election.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:01 pm
I have a hard time buying that the banks came out ahead on the foreclosures. They can’t sell them. My understanding was that the government more or less forced the lenders to make loans to unworthy credit risks to avoid “discrimination” repurcussions.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
2:01 pm
JamVet…. “urban areas” is part of the new code word/dog whistles. Used by Ryan, for example, to claim his economic proposals were not rejected.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:02 pm
Joe Hussein trying to tell us Social Security is insurance, not an entitlement, because “If you’re *well-off* financially in old age, you shouldn’t be able to claim the benefit.”
Unfortunatley, that’s not how it works. You pay in, you collect. Entitlement. Not insurance.
School’s out for the day Joey, run on home now, little one.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
2:03 pm
So they got their loan money back, they got the propoerty, AND they got to keep the money that they raped people for years (and still are) for PMI.
And I believe, can’t actually confirm, that they disappeared anyone who dared utter the word “cramdown” on TeeVee.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
November 14th, 2012
2:03 pm
AMerica Sloucher
“Urban areas”…new code for an nasty old concept and where around 80% of the population resides.
Doggone/GA
November 14th, 2012
2:05 pm
“Because if one seriously talks about replacing income taxes with a VAT, one is off to FairTax la-la land. I’ll leave that to Neal Boortz and the Scientologists”
Not neccessarily. That’s only true if the VAT is a flat rate. It doesn’t have to be
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:06 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
1:37 pm
“Mick — “Bullfeathers, you pay into it, you should get back from it, end of story.”
Try that line on an insurer. Any insurer.
If you don’t get sick, you don’t get your health insurance premiums back.
If you don’t die, you don’t get your life insurance premiums back (well, you can via an ROP policy, but I understand those are rarely sold).
If your house doesn’t burn down, you don’t get a refund on your homeowner’s policy.
This is how insurance has always worked, and SS *is* insurance. It has been since Day One.”
Ummm, well, no, that’s not how it has been since Day One. It’s an entitlement. You pay in, you collect. You’re ENTITLED. Not insurance.
Thinking JHM is going to be asked to attend summer school and/or repeat 3rd grade this year.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:08 pm
Our President attacks the gop for going after Rice.
No scandal in Benghazi.
Said he has a mandate to help the middle class not the wealthy.
Deal with it cons.
You lost.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:08 pm
I don’t think SS is an entitlement, although to some extent it is treated that way. However, is SS really “insurance” or an “annuity”?
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:11 pm
Get governments stinking hands off SS and Medicare.
The only thing they should do is payback the money they stole from the fund.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:11 pm
MadMax — “For all those making the “SSI” is an insurance arguement. You only buy insurance for things you want/need to protect. If I’m well off, and prudent, why would I buy insurance for something I will never need? I’d agree it’s a surtax (because I have no choice but to pay it and it’s paid with my after tax income). but insurance, no.”
Sorry, yes,
In the United States, Social Security refers to the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) federal program.
Punch up OASDI in Wikipedia and that’s what you’ll get.
Doggone/GA
November 14th, 2012
2:12 pm
“The only thing they should do is payback the money they stole from the fund”
They didn’t steal it. It’s backed by the same “IOU’s” that the Chinese are so eager to buy from us.
Mama Says
November 14th, 2012
2:13 pm
Jay,
Here’s a challenge for you, if you dare to take it.
I challenge you to write a non bias blog each day for a week.
Your blogs are obviously slanted toward democrats and tend to therefore slant against republicans.
Today’s blog is much of the same. You write it to shore up the democrats upcoming tax argument. You and I know you didn’t write it to point out the need for compromise. Had you decided to take a balanced position your blog would have spoken to the fact that this was a very close race, you would have pointed out that the electoral vote, although largely in Obamas favor, was decided by states who had vote totals that separated the two parties by 2 million votes out of 9 million or more that were cast. Florida, Virginia, North Carolina and Ohio were all decided by very close margins. Lose two of those states and its an electoral nail biter. You would also have mentioned that the voters left the house in the cons hands, which you and I both know contradicts the mandate or land slide argument your party has put forth. So speaking strictly about actual voter support, the nation is divided almost evenly on the subjects. Yes you can point out some clear majorities on individual issues. I for one support the democrats approach on the environment but then again I am against subsidies that are 4 times bigger than those we give the oil companies. Which by the way dosent seem to bother democrats. I mean looking forward we are arguing about degrees aren’t we ?
Dems can’t stand giving rich people tax breaks yet you fully support the same if not bigger breaks for green energy companies. So what’s the difference either way they are giveaways as far as our federal budget goes.
Bottom line here Jay is that you have used this blog to further the democratic talking points, be honest.
Can you do as Obama has asked and help bring us to the middle ?
Mick
November 14th, 2012
2:13 pm
ben
How strange it is to agree on something, but I’m ok with social security…
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
2:13 pm
How in the Wide, Wide World of Sports do you Republicans stand a chance going forward when your zeitgeist is still …………………………. Joseph McCarthy?
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:15 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:01 pm
I have a hard time buying that the banks came out ahead on the foreclosures. They can’t sell them. My understanding was that the government more or less forced the lenders to make loans to unworthy credit risks to avoid “discrimination” repurcussions.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
You have a hard time “buying” because your “understanding” is flawed. The property WILL sell. Property always does. They got the money AND the property so when it sells isn’t a problem to the banks. I mean if it were they could sell it for much under value while STILL making a hefty profit. Let me break it down for you:
Let’s pretend that YOU gave 10 loans on 10 houses that all cost $250,000. The lendees ALL made payments for a time, so you are making money. But the lenders didn’t put down the amount of money that YOU judged was enough to make them vested so YOU made them all pay extra, non refundable money about and beyond the cost of the loan to “repay” the property in case you went into default.
Well all 10 houses went into default. Instead of using the “insurance” you made all those home owners pay, you got the Government to pay off all ten loans. You also kept every penny of the premiums of the “mortgage insurance” without paying out a dime. So now you have not only all the property and all the loans paid in full, but you get the extra money you cheated teh property owners out of for however long they made payments.
SO even if you sell those 10, $250,000 houses for the ridiculous price of $100,000, you would STILL make another $1,000,000 of EXTRA profit. But the banks aren’t doing that. They are sitting on that property and waiting until it regains value. And why shouldn’t they? They have nothing to lose, we the taxpayers, paid their bills and everything they get out of the houses now is pure profit.
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
2:15 pm
Fred – I never listen to political talk radio and watch more CNN than Fox, very little of either. I’m also pro choice and in favor of gay marriage among other liberal leanings. What kills me on this blog is the bloggers who goose step to the party line no matter how absurd it might be and the totally irrational arguments they espouse to justify the party line. Or they result to some personal insult.
Your turn. Why are 30 of the governors Republican if this country is so liberal?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
2:16 pm
My understanding was that the government more or less forced the lenders to make loans to unworthy credit risks to avoid “discrimination” repurcussions. (sic))
Then you are staggeringly ignorant of the facts.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:16 pm
Mick, I have an opinion on Social security, but JHM is offering his (incorrect) opinion as fact. There is no means-test for social security. You pay in, you collect. What you collect is based in part on what you paid in. It’s not insurance. It’s an entitlement. Period. To argue otherwise is, well, not so bright………………….
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:17 pm
Wow. Benny found the courage to come back?
Hi Benny. Did you know that FOX lied and Romney’s election died?
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:17 pm
Mama,
No.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:17 pm
J. Konop — “You understand without making cuts you cannot tax your way out?”
And why do you think I was advocating means-testing?
“Second baby boomers are creating way more retries than workers via a ratios we have never seen in our country.”
Um, the boomers have been entering retirement for some time. Another 20 years and they’ll pretty much all be at retirement age.
“Finally this is why your formula will not work, we do not have enough rich people to fund the vast majority over time.”
When did I say anything about rich people?
Seriously, John, I get the distinct feeling that you’re either not reading what I’m writing or else you’re just skimming it.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:19 pm
Not only do you not have to be poor or otherwise demonstrate need to collect social security, you no longer even have to be retired.
You pay in/you collect. ENTITLEMENT.
Repeal of the Retirement Earnings Test (RET)
On April 7, 2000 “The Senior Citizens’ Freedom to Work Act of 2000″ was signed into law, eliminating the Retirement Earnings Test (RET) for those beneficiaries at or above Normal Retirement Age (NRA). (The RET still applies to those beneficiaries below NRA.)
The legislation began its swift march through Congress on March 1, 2000 when the full House of Representatives passed H.R. 5 by a vote of 422 to 0. The Senate, on March 22, 2000 then passed the bill by a vote of 100-0 (with a technical amendment). On March 28, 2000 The House agreed to the Senate amendment by a vote of 419-0 and cleared the measure for transmission to the President.
This was a historic change in the Social Security retirement program. From the beginning of Social Security in 1935, retirement benefits have been conditional on the requirement that the beneficiary be substantially retired. This requirement was carried out by the provisions of the RET. The RET has changed considerably over the years. The requirement was first scaled-back in the 1950 Amendments, which exempted workers age 75 and older from the RET. The exempt age was reduced to 72 in 1954, and to age 70 and older in 1977. With the new legislation, starting at the NRA, Social Security retirement benefits will be paid to beneficiaries who are still working. Effectively, for those who have reached full retirement age, this repeals the requirement that the beneficiary be substantially retired in order to receive full Social Security retirement benefits.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:19 pm
Mick — “joe, Sorry, but your “interpretation” doesn’t wash”
Sorry, but it’s not an interpretation. It’s cold, hard fact. SS is insurance. I refer you to my post of 2:11 PM.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:20 pm
SS is not even on the table.Reid said so.
Perhaps you cons should focus on solutions for real problems.
Bust your bubble and join the real world kooks.
alex
November 14th, 2012
2:20 pm
Nunna, et al. as of my understanding you are both right, yes the morgage companies quickly sold the products to the investment banks who sold them to the rest of the world with a big profit and yes Freddie Mac a yes/no govt. -supported entity was pushed to make loans available, see Clayton co. and Barnie Frank… No good players here. Read : “Too Big too Fail”. “the Big Short” or any number of tell all books fromm 2009/2011.. Greed was Everywhere as was stupidity EVERYWHERE
@ gRANNY,let’s see you suggest “Boys world” to someone, yet quote the “coneheads”, bit of an intellectual giant are you….? Geeez
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:21 pm
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:17 pm
“Wow. Benny found the courage to come back?”
Hi Fred. I still go to work every day, earn my own money, support my own family, and save/invest for my own retirement.
You ought to try it. It delivers positive results quicker than government dependancy every time it’s tried. I guarantee it.
Atlas Shrugging
November 14th, 2012
2:22 pm
I wonder who get hurt more if we go over the cliff; college kids, blue hairs, union workers, non-income tax payers, waders of the Rio Grand, ie Obozo’s base/takers or makers, ie the 2%? If the Republician base is the 2% how much clout do you really think Obozo has over the House?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:22 pm
Nunna Yobinnes — “Alex – weren’t the banks “forced” to lend to unworthy credit risks?”
No. Over 80% of the sub-prime loans made prior to the meltdown were made by lending institutions that were *not* subject to the Community Reinvestment Act.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:22 pm
Wow, Joe Hussein was so quick to jump in and respond to all my posts earlier today. Now all of the sudden he can’t quite muster the courage.
ENTITLEMENT
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:23 pm
atlas,
Your bs is a perfect example of why you lost.
Keep up the great work son.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:24 pm
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
2:15 pm
Fred – I never listen to political talk radio and watch more CNN than Fox, very little of either. I’m also pro choice and in favor of gay marriage among other liberal leanings. What kills me on this blog is the bloggers who goose step to the party line no matter how absurd it might be and the totally irrational arguments they espouse to justify the party line. Or they result to some personal insult.
Your turn. Why are 30 of the governors Republican if this country is so liberal?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you for the answer, I’ve been seeing this “line of reasoning” pop up a lot since Romney lost the election and wondered if it was the new talking point. Apparently you don’t know either. Now to answer YOUR question……….
I don’t know. I’m an Independent and as far as “Governors” are concerned, the only one I care about is the one in Georgia. And he’s a crook. I can’t see a single reason why anyone with an ounce of integrity or brains not only got him nominated to run but voted for him. Thurbert Baker ran against him on the Republican ticket and is a fine, moral man as well as a Conservative. Even that weirdo woman, Karen Handel would have been better than the crook Nathan Deal. But no, The hard core fanatics chose the thief.
The Democrats weren’t much better, they chose Roy Barnes………..
I voted for John Monds. As for the other 29 states in your 30, (if that’s correct, I’ll take your word on it and not check), I neither know nor care, nor see any relevance.
Anything else I can help you with? I mean I can’t tell you why an apple doesn’t taste like an orange either……..
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:25 pm
From the social security website, http://www.ssa.gov...
“Apply Online for Retirement Benefits – Boldly Go Online to Retire – It’s So Easy!
Social Security offers an online retirement application that you can complete in as little as 15 minutes. It’s so easy. Better yet, you can apply from the comfort of your home or office at a time most convenient for you. There’s no need to drive to a local Social Security office or wait for an appointment with a Social Security representative.
In most cases, once your application is submitted electronically, you’re done. There are no forms to sign and usually no documentation is required. Social Security will process your application and contact you if any further information is needed. ”
That really doesn’t sound like insurance…………….
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:25 pm
B. Shockley — “Joe Hussein trying to tell us Social Security is insurance”
In the United States, Social Security refers to the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) federal program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OASDI
“Unfortunatley, that’s not how it works. You pay in, you collect. Entitlement. Not insurance.”
Denied. Insurance. Fail, Benny.
“School’s out for the day Joey, run on home now, little one.”
See me after class, young man. I’m going to have to have a conference with your parents about holding you back a grade next year.
And if you keep up the poor behavior, Principal Jay might just have to put you in detention again.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:26 pm
I don’t see means-testing anywhere here….
How the Retirement Estimator Works
The Retirement Estimator gives estimates based on your actual Social Security earnings record. Please keep in mind that these are just estimates. We can’t provide your actual benefit amount until you apply for benefits. And that amount may differ from the estimates provided because:
•Your earnings may increase or decrease in the future.
•After you start receiving benefits, they will be adjusted for cost-of-living increases.
•Your estimated benefits are based on current law. The law governing benefit amounts may change because, by 2033, the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 75 cents for each dollar of scheduled benefits.
•Your benefit amount may be affected by military service, railroad employment or pensions earned through work on which you did not pay Social Security tax.
Mick
November 14th, 2012
2:26 pm
joe
Not disputing that it’s called insurance (fica) but I will be collecting at either 62 or 65 – count on it…
mm
November 14th, 2012
2:26 pm
“Hi Fred. I still go to work every day, earn my own money, support my own family, and save/invest for my own retirement.
You ought to try it. It delivers positive results quicker than government dependancy every time it’s tried. I guarantee it.”
These idiots still haven’t learned from their mistakes.
Regnad Kcin
November 14th, 2012
2:26 pm
“I’m telling you the Dems pretty much only win urban areas and gerrymandered districts, because that’s where there constituents live”
Um, yes. They generally DO win the districts “where there constituents live.”
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:27 pm
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:21 pm
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:17 pm
“Wow. Benny found the courage to come back?”
Hi Fred. I still go to work every day, earn my own money, support my own family, and save/invest for my own retirement.
You ought to try it. It delivers positive results quicker than government dependancy every time it’s tried. I guarantee it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you can show where I have taken ANY Government assistance rather than working Benny, I will kiss your lying ass on the main street of any town you care to name.
Funny though how you had time for blathering before the election and then hid for a while afterwards.
I see though that in your time off you didn’t find a way to tell the truth…….
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
2:27 pm
JamVet………so now we can vote more stuff and make the others give it up?
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:27 pm
Anybody see anything about insurance or qualifying events or means-testing here???
A secure, comfortable retirement is every worker’s dream. And now because we’re living longer, healthier lives, we can expect to spend more time in retirement than our parents and grandparents did.
Achieving the dream of a secure, comfortable retirement is much easier when you plan your finances.
How The Social Security Retirement Planner Can Help You Now
This planner provides detailed information about your Social Security retirement benefits under current law. It also points out things you may want to consider as you prepare for the future. If you are:
•Looking for information, you can:
◦Find your retirement age,
◦Estimate your life expectancy,
◦Estimate Your Retirement Benefits,
◦Use our other benefit calculators to test different retirement ages or future earnings amounts,
◦Learn about Social Security programs,
◦Find out what happens if you
■Work after you retire or
■Are already a Medicare Beneficiary and
◦Learn how certain types of earnings and pensions can affect your benefits.
•Already near retirement age, you can:
◦Discover your retirement options,
◦Get information about how members of your family may qualify for benefits,
◦Find instructions on how to apply for benefits and what supporting documents you may need to furnish, and
◦Apply for retirement benefits.
•Close to age 65, you can find out how to apply for just Medicare. You may need to sign up for Medicare close to your 65th birthday, even if you are still working.
◦Some health insurance plans change automatically at age 65.
◦If you are getting Social Security benefits when you turn 65, your Medicare Hospital Benefits will start automatically.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:27 pm
B. Shockley — “Ummm, well, no, that’s not how it has been since Day One. It’s an entitlement. You pay in, you collect. You’re ENTITLED. Not insurance.”
Rejected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OASDI
“Thinking JHM is going to be asked to attend summer school and/or repeat 3rd grade this year.”
No, Benny, I think that’s going to be you. You’re really going to have to bear down and study if you don’t want to be held back yet *another* year.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm
Fred – Sometimes you can be, well…mean.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm
Poor Joe. Found the word “insurance” on wikipedia and still doesn’t understand what it means.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm
SS is not even on the table.Reid said so.
well yeah, and Joe Biden “flat guaranteed” they wouldn’t be cutting it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-l-borosage/game-changer-biden-guaran_b_1789245.html
“I guarantee you, flat guarantee you, there will be no changes in Social Security,” Biden told patrons of the Coffee Break Café in Stuart, Virginia, “I flat guarantee you.”
Alas, these promises and $2.25 will get you a ride on the NYC subway.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm
You Randians are never going to get a clue, are you AShrug?
Real life is not some pathetic piece of fiction.
Toss that silly, romanticized cr@p out the window and join us in the real world…
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm
JHM: I think we were talking about budgety, wonky things because that’s where the thread started.
Gotcha. I think that stuff should be phase two with phase one being jobs.
————–
Nunna Yobinnes: However, since job creation and economic recovery are issues of public confidence, what can be done to create meaningful jobs?
I don’t think it’s a matter of public confidence as much as it’s a matter of the business leaders having confidence in themselves. There used to be common belief in the idea that it took money to make money. Nowadays, business leaders seem to think they can make money by NOT using money.
Look at the progress that has been made in the US in spite of using more money. We have become much more efficient and more productive over the past 30 plus years. Imagine how much more productive we would be with more people working as efficient as our workforce does now. At the same time, more people working gives the public more money to spend. You feed into a positive business cycle that way, and by paying people decent wages, you try to avoid having people over leverage themselves with credit.
————–
John Konop @ 1:23
I would disagree with the idea that a VAT tax would increase jobs and you can look at European countries as proof of that. Their employment is not much better or worse than ours. The big difference is that some of those countries have a much better working relationship between their government and businesses. Here, our government and business are sometimes at war with each other as opposed to working together towards a common cause.
—————
Stevie Ray @ 1:35
I wouldn’t even deal with the matter of whether that money is spent or not. What we’re going through now is a phase where private sector spending is way down. If you also cut public sector spending, you’re basically trying to fly a 747 at 30,000 feet while using full reverse thrusters. In other words, you’re intentionally crashing.
The key is to get the private sector back to doing it’s job of pushing consumption. As you increase private sector consumption, you can cut public sector spending without hurting the economy.
As to the banks and lending, that’s the root cause of our current problem. We need to stay away from credit for a while and spend what we have. Why would you want people borrowing on credit while NOT wanting the government to do the same? It’s much harder on the personal income to borrow when compared to the government.
Ronald Reagan
November 14th, 2012
2:29 pm
The President said “I uh ah ah uh ah i uh uh uh ah ah uh uh uh ah I uh uh ah & thanks!”
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:29 pm
Wow…poor little Freddy has his boxers in a knot. Guess my suggestion to pull his owm weight hit a little too close to home.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:29 pm
Atlas Shrugging
November 14th, 2012
2:22 pm
I wonder who get hurt more if we go over the cliff; college kids, blue hairs, union workers, non-income tax payers, waders of the Rio Grand, ie Obozo’s base/takers or makers, ie the 2%? If the Republician base is the 2% how much clout do you really think Obozo has over the House?
++++++++++++++++++++
Does it make you feel like your dick is longer when you use an anonymous name on a blog to spell so disparaging of the most powerful man on the face of the earth? Does your total lack of respect for America and your fellow Americans somehow make you think folks will take you seriously?
I say drive off that cliff and lets see.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:29 pm
ben is having a melt down.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:30 pm
Bust their bubble.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:31 pm
B. Shockley — “Mick, I have an opinion on Social security, but JHM is offering his (incorrect) opinion as fact.”
Nope. I’m offering fact as fact, and clearly indicating my opinion as such. You’re coming along late in the game, and — as usual — you haven’t bothered to catch up on the parts you missed.
“There is no means-test for social security.”
Didn’t say there was. I said that IMO there *should be.*
“You pay in, you collect. What you collect is based in part on what you paid in. It’s not insurance.”
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OASDI
“It’s an entitlement. Period.”
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OASDI
“To argue otherwise is, well, not so bright………………….”
Sorry to burst your bubble, Benny.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
2:31 pm
Redcoat, English please.
I am not conversant in Republican Ebonics…
barking frog
November 14th, 2012
2:32 pm
SSI and OASDI are two entirely
different programs that are
administered by SSA.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:32 pm
Joe, since wikipedia is your bible, try this…
Entitlement – From Wikipedia
An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. A “right” is itself an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an “entitlement” is a provision made in accordance with legal framework of a society. Typically, entitlements are laws based on concepts of principle (”rights”) which are themselves based in concepts of social equality or enfranchisement.
In a casual sense, the term “entitlement” refers to a notion or belief that one (or oneself) is deserving of some particular reward or benefit[1]—if given without deeper legal or principled cause, the term is often given with pejorative connotation (e.g. a “sense of entitlement”).
sounds remarkably like social security to me
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:32 pm
dB @ 1:59
wait a minute–doesn’t Krugman count?
My bad. I don’t read him that often, so if he’s made that point, then I’ll give him credit for that. At least one person’s thinking.
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
2:32 pm
It’s much harder on the personal income to borrow when compared to the government.
wha? you mean interest on my unpaid credit card balance isn’t 0.1%? rut roh.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:32 pm
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:29 pm
Wow…poor little Freddy has his boxers in a knot. Guess my suggestion to pull his owm weight hit a little too close to home.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Gee Ben, when you can pay my daughters tuition to Woodward, my wife’s tuition to Vanderbilt for her doctorate, and my taxes, I’ll be happy to hear your drivel. Until then, your lies are pathetic.
You lost. Your ideals were rejected. You have nothing but the same reject lies to peddle. It’s sad.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:32 pm
B. Shockley — “You pay in/you collect. ENTITLEMENT”
In the United States, Social Security refers to the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) federal program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OASDI
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:33 pm
LOL at Joe. really getting desperate now.
Joe, I’ve been paying in for 35 years. I’m entitled to collect retirement benefits, and nothign short of death will prevent that.
Fact or fiction?
Poor little Joey………
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:33 pm
alex — “and yes Freddie Mac a yes/no govt. -supported entity was pushed to make loans available”
Neither Freddie Mac nor Fannie Mae actually made loans, if that’s what you’re suggesting.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm
JamVet……….I need some money bro…..you got some I know…..you don’t give it up I’ll call you a racist and vote me all your money. Why you get so much and I don’t?……..democracy in action?
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm
Fred tone down the language dude. There might be children reading this blog.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm
“SSI and OASDI are two entirely
different programs that are
administered by SSA.”
shhhhh…….don’t let JHM hear that….he’ll melt down……
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm
Fred – Sometimes you can be, well…mean.
+++++++++++++++
I’m sorry, I don’t try to be. I look at it as I’m blunt and to the point. What in particular have I said to you today that you felt was mean?
Mick
November 14th, 2012
2:35 pm
This is all you need to know about social security: You can collect and early benefit at age 62 or full benefits at 65 or 66.8 depending on the year of your birth. You pay in, you collect. If you do not pay in and opt out, no benefit for you…
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:35 pm
B. Shockley — “I don’t see means-testing anywhere here….”
Nor should you.
Had you bothered to *read the thread,* you’d have seen that I was *advocating* means-testing.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:35 pm
“Gee Ben, when you can pay my daughters tuition to Woodward, my wife’s tuition to Vanderbilt for her doctorate, and my taxes, I’ll be happy to hear your drivel. Until then, your lies are pathetic.”
You sure have wasted a lot of money on education, because you still don’t know jack.
St Simons
November 14th, 2012
2:35 pm
“Urban areas…”
no dude, you have to stretch it out like ‘Urrrrrr-bun’
and cock your eyebrow and maybe wink.
get the dog whistles right, man
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:36 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm
Fred tone down the language dude. There might be children reading this blog.
++++++++++++++++
I’m speaking English. What language would you prefer i use? I know several.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
2:36 pm
Bros
. …..I would disagree with the idea that a VAT tax would increase jobs and you can look at European countries as proof of that………..
Europe does not have a payroll tax like us. I am talking about replacing the payroll tax with a VAT or national sales tax. The reason that would spur employment is companies would reinvest the money into their business and workers would consume more with their paychecks increasing ie jobs………
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:36 pm
“Had you bothered to *read the thread,* you’d have seen that I was *advocating* means-testing. ”
Had you bothered to think, you would know the difference between insurance and entitlement, regardless of what it says on the label.
Mama Says
November 14th, 2012
2:37 pm
Someone tell me who to vote for that will put in place conservative monetary standards as well as an energy policy that dosent support large subsidies to the energy developers.
You do understand that today’s green energy company is tomorrow’s giant oil like
subsidized company.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:37 pm
B. Shockley — “Poor Joe. Found the word “insurance” on wikipedia and still doesn’t understand what it means.”
Poor Benny. Didn’t bother to read the thread and now stepping all over his crank.
You know, we were having a nice bipartisan discussion for five pages, at least until you came in here and crapped in the punchbowl.
I think I know why Jay gave you a time-out recently.
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
2:37 pm
FRED
The things I will never understand is why did the feds give the banks this pile of dough instead of giving it to homeowners to keep up with payments until this thing blows….more importantly, the RTC worked famously pre S&L debacle…why not now…it really helped the real estate market by gradually putting houses on market over many years…..
TaxPayer
November 14th, 2012
2:37 pm
So. How are Republicans handling their losses. Are they working their way through the denial phase yet.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:37 pm
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:35 pm
“Gee Ben, when you can pay my daughters tuition to Woodward, my wife’s tuition to Vanderbilt for her doctorate, and my taxes, I’ll be happy to hear your drivel. Until then, your lies are pathetic.”
You sure have wasted a lot of money on education, because you still don’t know jack.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really? How would paying for the education of my wife and daughter equate with me knowing your friend Jack? Does your buddy have a last name? I MAY know him………
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:38 pm
ben,
You are parsing words and it means nothing.
SS is off the table.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:38 pm
Mick — “Not disputing that it’s called insurance (fica) but I will be collecting at either 62 or 65 – count on it…”
And that’s what we were talking about — preserving it so it would be there for you, Mick.
Benny seems to have missed the entire point of the discussion, but that’s par for the course when it comes to trolls.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:38 pm
“I’m speaking English. What language would you prefer i use? I know several”
Between his bragging on expensive private schools and his supposed knowledge of foreign languages, one gets the impression little freddie has a self-esteem problem. guess that’s why he depends on government and wets the bed at the thought of losing his government-provided security blanket.
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:39 pm
dB @ 2:32
Shhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:40 pm
B. Shockley — “Wow, Joe Hussein was so quick to jump in and respond to all my posts earlier today. Now all of the sudden he can’t quite muster the courage.”
Don’t feel so self-important, Benny. Taking a nice, long whiz is higher on my Hit Parade than responding to you. (giggling)
“ENTITLEMENT”
Sorry, Ben-Jamon.
AmericaShrugged
November 14th, 2012
2:40 pm
Fred – Thanks for the sincere response, too many on here resort to insults and name calling when they face a few unpleasant truths.
I’m with you, over the cliff. We’ve lived beyond our means almost non-stop since Reagan. Let’s bite the bullet, take the recession we’ve earned and build a better future for America and the milleniums. Float the dollar, print $15T of them and pay off the debt. So what if no one has a job and a loaf of bread costs $25!
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:40 pm
Fred – If you insist, I think that “Does it make you feel like your dick is longer…” is a tad offensive.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:40 pm
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:38 pm
“ben,
You are parsing words and it means nothing.”
LMAO. Maybe you better tell JHM, who found the word “insurance” on the SS website and thinks he found the holy grail.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:41 pm
STEVIE RAY:
I know right? Along the same lines, they gave AIG almost a trillion dollars right? And they took the money and paid off the European banks that invested in them while millions of Americans lost their houses…….
Was it millions? That seems high. I know it was a buttload………
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:41 pm
ben,
What difference does it make?
Mick
November 14th, 2012
2:42 pm
joe
Sorry, ben may be tart in his responses but they have been on the mark factually regarding social security benefits. It is projected to be 100% solvent until 2033 and can be fixed by raising the cap
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
2:42 pm
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm
I’m talking about borrowing to create jobs…many homebuyers, builders, businesses etectera need that capital to move forward..I’m suggesting getting that money to work which creates jobs, tax revenues, and demand…you are either growing or dying…
The feds are borrowing at low rates but what is our return on that investment? Zippo
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:43 pm
John Konop @ 2:36
That’s my point exactly. Most European countries don’t have payroll taxes, and they have VAT taxes in place. Yet, their employment isn’t much different than ours with our current setup. I don’t see how switching our tax system to some semblance of theirs will spur job creation.
Tinkering with taxes don’t create demand. When somebody’s not working, a tax cut doesn’t put extra money into their pockets. If the government can’t put money into the hands of people to spend, the only other option is for the private sector to give them jobs, therefore putting money in their hands. Nobody seems keen on any type of government stimulus, so that kinda narrows our options when it comes to giving people the money necessary to spur demand, doesn’t it?
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:43 pm
The President had a press conference on the issues.
Did you cons even bother to listen to him?
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:43 pm
Joe still can’t prove SS is insurance. Still pounding his chest though.
Liberals are so funny.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:44 pm
B. Shockley — “Joe, I’ve been paying in for 35 years. I’m entitled to collect retirement benefits, and nothign short of death will prevent that. Fact or fiction?”
Fiction, of course.
Your ideological compatriots are fond of telling us that SS is going broke, so *of course* there won’t be anything left for you.
Silly cons. Can’t y’all even keep your bulldada stories straight? (giggling)
“Poor little Joey………”
Don’t pity *me,* Benny. I’m not the one who had to be put in time-out. (laughing, pointing)
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:44 pm
“Sorry, ben may be tart in his responses but they have been on the mark factually regarding social security benefits”
Sorry Mick, Joe is immune to facts.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:44 pm
” feds are borrowing at low rates but what is our return on that investment? Zippo”
Total bs and living in a bubble away from the real world.
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:45 pm
The reason that would spur employment is companies would reinvest the money into their business and workers would consume more with their paychecks increasing ie jobs………
Not likely to happen in the good old USA. Based on past performance, any savings from tax cuts are either going to stockholders or management. Corporations are sitting on record piles of cash, and they’re not reinvesting now, so why would they do so if we give them more money?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
2:45 pm
Yes, I do have some money. I enlisted in the US Air Force at the age of 17 and learned a very valuable skill set. Among many other invaluable lessons. I then went to work as a civilian at the age of 21 and have made a nice career for myself and have taken good care of my family.
You should have done something similar.
BTW, Redcoat, that is an interesting name.
In the runup to this election I wrote that it would not have surprised me that if today’s Republicans had been around in the 1770s, they would have fought with the British, against the colonialists.
Are you a big King George fan? (And not Bush! LOL!!!)
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:45 pm
B. Shockley — “Joe, since wikipedia is your bible”
Fail.
Go back, reread the thread. Return and carry on a polite conversation with the rest of us when you’re prepared to be more the adult you *claim* to be and less the jackazz you’re *demonstrating* yourself to be.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:46 pm
“Fiction, of course.”
Really Joe? enlighten the group and tell me what events will transpire to deny me my social security entitlement.
Poor little Joe…just digging his hole deeper and deeper………
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
2:47 pm
FRED
Just how big is your butt relative to accomodating billions?
The elimination of GStegall, was a significant brick in the crumbling wall…it seemed to work since 1932 or so…in fact, the banks wanted it dead so they could compete with foreign banks…guess that worked out well..
AIG was simply completely defrauded by a handful of traders who were allowed access to the surplus that supported the various insurance operations…this never would have happened if Spitzer didn’t virtually oust Hank Greenberg….he always required CDO’s and similar real estate based investments to be a very minor amount of investment base..
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:47 pm
Between his bragging on expensive private schools and his supposed knowledge of foreign languages, one gets the impression little freddie has a self-esteem problem. guess that’s why he depends on government and wets the bed at the thought of losing his government-provided security blanket.
LOL Benny, you are funny. Don’t quit your day job.
Do you offer anything other than lies or insults? I mean you aren’t funny enough to play with otherwise.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:47 pm
“Go back, reread the thread. Return and carry on a polite conversation with the rest of us when you’re prepared to be more the adult you *claim* to be and less the jackazz you’re *demonstrating* yourself to be.’
Sorry Joe. Calling me names doesn’t change the fact that i have exposed you as a smoke-blower of Clinton-esque proportions.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm
Ben, Joe is right under our laws SS is not guaranteed. I do think if the safety net ended you would see riots, but clearly if this or Medicare runs out of money the government does not owe it. That is why we must all put the ideologically BS away and solve the problem.
….Regardless of one’s opinion of the recent debt ceiling folderol, the Obama administration’s threat to withhold Social Security checks proved useful, albeit not in the manner intended.
The suggestion that such payments might have not been made should have alerted workers to a painful truth. That truth is that people who have paid into the Social Security system for their entire working lives are guaranteed absolutely nothing insofar as retirement benefits are concerned.
The Social Security Act states in unambiguous and unequivocal terms “(t)he right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of this chapter is hereby reserved to the Congress.”
This section of the act still is in full force, meaning that as a matter of law, Congress can eliminate the entire Social Security program if it so chooses — a political improbability perhaps, but the legality of such a move is beyond question. Any claims as to workers having “guaranteed” retirement benefits are immediately rendered specious.
Also, a pair of United States Supreme Court decisions held that Social Security is not a contributory insurance program and that workers have no legal or contractual rights to Social Security retirement benefits.
In Helvering v. Davis (1937), the court decided a variety of questions about the Social Security Act, not least of which concerned reserving the revenue generated by the system’s payroll tax for the payment of retirement benefits and the distinction between Congress’ obligation to protect the “general” welfare as contrasted with the “particular” welfare.
Justice Benjamin Cardozo’s majority opinion noted the Social Security Act “lays two different types of tax, an ‘income tax on employees,’ and ‘an excise tax on employers’ … The proceeds of both taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like internal revenue taxes generally, and are not ear-marked in any way.” This means Social Security payroll tax revenue, just like any other tax revenue, is available for Congress to do with as it will.
Cardozo also cited the provision of Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution that Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes to provide for the general welfare. Further, though, he observed “(t)he line must still be drawn between one welfare and another, between particular and general. Where this shall be placed cannot be known through a formula in advance of the event. There is a middle ground or certainly a penumbra in which discretion is at large. The discretion, however, is not confided to the courts. This discretion belongs to Congress. … Nor is the concept of the general welfare static.”
In other words, if Congress decides that in a changed concept of the nation’s general welfare the country is better served by discontinuing the Social Security system, as opposed to the individual worker’s particular welfare of receiving Social Security retirement benefits, it has the legal authority to do so.
In Flemming v. Nestor (1960), the court similarly ruled that workers have neither vested rights nor property interests in payments made into the Social Security system.
Writing for the majority, Justice John Harlan stated “(i)t is apparent that the noncontractual interest of an employee covered by the Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments.”
Also, Harlan remarked “(t)o engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of ‘accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever-changing condition on which it depends.” And finally, he noted “(w)e must conclude that a person covered by the Act has not such a right in benefit payments as would make every defeasance of ‘accrued’ interests violate of the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment.”
What this means is that payroll taxes paid into the Social Security system are no longer the property of the workers from whom they came, but of the federal government, and are therefore immune to the to the Constitution’s prohibition against governmental “taking” without fair compensation.
Those monthly Social Security checks on which workers are counting are “guaranteed” by political promises only, but not by either statute or case law.
http://onlineathens.com/stories/080611/opi_867419618.shtml
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm
“Do you offer anything other than lies or insults?”
Point out a lie I’ve told.
good luck.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm
Who exactly is getting all this borrowed money now? and why? and when is all this borrowed money have to be paid back? and to whom? What Americans are asking for all this borrowed money? and why? What collateral is being used? and what if we can’t pay it back, what then?
I know, just keep doing what your told and pay your taxes! and teach your children the same!
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm
Oh, and forgive my rudeness!
Welcome to the forum, Redcoat!
As you are a new blogger here. (chuckle)
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm
B. Shockley — “Had you bothered to think, you would know the difference between insurance and entitlement, regardless of what it says on the label.”
I thought just fine. And you failed to read.
And I can read the kind of person you are right through the label, as well.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Joe is right under our laws SS is not guaranteed”
Great, thanks. Just tell us what law and the debate will be over.
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:50 pm
I’m talking about borrowing to create jobs…many homebuyers, builders, businesses etectera need that capital to move forward..
And with the amount of money needed to get things going, we’d only be setting the next debt bomb to go off eventually. I get what you’re saying, and I somewhat agree.
The primary reason I disagree though, is that we currently have enough money in holding that could be released and do the same thing without borrowing. It’s kind of like the story people here post about the $100 bill going through the town, from the prostitute to the inn keeper, to the grocer, etc… The people who are best positioned to get us moving are the one’s holding back trying to wait and see what’s going to happen.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:50 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:40 pm
Fred – If you insist, I think that “Does it make you feel like your dick is longer…” is a tad offensive.
++++++++++++++++++++
I think slandering America and our highest office is even more offensive. I feel the reason I stated is WHY small impotent little men like that poster do it. Would you feel better had I used the word penis?
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:50 pm
Sorry Joe. I know it’s embarassing for a blowhard like you when I expose you in front of your tard lib buddies.
Take it like a man for a change.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 14th, 2012
2:51 pm
Ben “I know a MARTA bus driver has a $100K salary, I just don’t have any facts or evidence before I make that claim” Shockley is calling someone a smoke-blower… oh my.
getalife
November 14th, 2012
2:52 pm
You cons did not even listen to the press conference.
You are not informed and still listening to rw media with zippo credibility.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:52 pm
Mick — “Sorry, ben may be tart in his responses but they have been on the mark factually regarding social security benefits. It is projected to be 100% solvent until 2033 and can be fixed by raising the cap”
Ben’s actually quite confused. Having come along late in the discussion, he’s managed to confuse my opinion and fact and, as he is wont to do, has started up an argument with several regulars.
Ben’s neither intelligent nor polite enough to go back and read the thread, as he’s not actually here for discussion. IMO, he’s just looking to troll and knock folks off the topic of discussion, at least until Jay gives him another red card.
Shrug.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:53 pm
Oh my bad…”take it like a man” is probably offensive to a gender-neutral like Joe.
Mick
November 14th, 2012
2:53 pm
konop
Alot of words but I do not know of anyone denied their social security benefits that paid in, so why go there???
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:53 pm
No Fred, I just think we should gather around the campfire and sing “Kum ba yah”.
alex
November 14th, 2012
2:53 pm
Nuna, yes quite offensive, your questions are excellent and thank you Joe for the help,I am no economist or banker , I have read several books about this… Joe, of course you are correct that f reddi did not make the direct loans but they did make loans possible by purchasizng the loans made by these companies thus freeing up more cash for more loans, etc. Then you have the securitization issues and then the credit default swaps, ………The issue of AIG has been reviewed in 2 new books reviewed in the “economist”. Yes the administration kept AIG alive to the dismay of the taxpayer and a WHOLE lot more complicated than that..AGAIN, alot of bad players here, but also a lot of flying by the seat of their pants…..Retospective analysiis are always fun , but may not be fair
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:54 pm
B. Shockley — “Sorry Mick, Joe is immune to facts.”
Not facts, Ben. Just to you.
Again, go back and read the thread.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:54 pm
“Ben’s neither intelligent nor polite enough to go back and read the thread”
And yet he exposed JHM as a spreader-of-untruths………
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:54 pm
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm
“Do you offer anything other than lies or insults?”
Point out a lie I’ve told.
good luck.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
That was easy. Your first post to me. You implied that I am dependent on the government for my livelihood. That is a lie.
Hi Fred. I still go to work every day, earn my own money, support my own family, and save/invest for my own retirement.
You ought to try it. It delivers positive results quicker than government dependancy every time it’s tried. I guarantee it.
Later you said:
guess that’s why he depends on government and wets the bed at the thought of losing his government-provided security blanket.
Another lie.
So you see Ben, I don’t need “luck” to point out your lies, I merely need to quote you.
DebbieDoRight - Math has a very strong anti-conservative bias
November 14th, 2012
2:54 pm
Why are 30 of the governors Republican if this country is so liberal?
Mainly because the majority of the country are CENTRIST and the repubs pretended to be in the center UNTIL they got elected.
Once elected, their true colors started to show.
that’s why this year, people were pressing the various republicans running for office for more CONCRETE statements. It wasn’t enough for them to say, “I believe that everyone has a choice (buzzword); but I my choice is Pro-Life”.
Moderates started asking pointed questions to these answers. Questions like: “If a person was raped…..and if you were elected…………”; to which we got some crazy, scary answers:
“legitimate rape” seldom leads to pregnancy.
women should be forced to carry their rapists baby to term because forced pregnancy is a gift from God and God intended rape.
Women forced to undergo “probes” before they can have abortions………….
And so on and so forth.
The Republican governor’s that were elected, if they were to have shown their real face first, (good thing ole 47% Mitt did huh!?); then they would NOT have been elected.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:55 pm
B. Shockley — “Really Joe? enlighten the group and tell me what events will transpire to deny me my social security entitlement.”
Sorry, Ben. You have your orders.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/08/28/as-gop-convention-kicks-off-obama-still-favorite/?cp=14#comment-1052486
stands for decibels
November 14th, 2012
2:55 pm
Grumpy-Gramps SHEETZ.
Ben Shockley
November 14th, 2012
2:55 pm
Still waiting for JHM to tell me what must happen (other than death) to deny me my social security entitlement benefits.
F. Sinkwich
November 14th, 2012
2:56 pm
“Did you cons even bother to listen to him?”
What for? He always says the same thing. And the press only lobs up softballs.
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
2:56 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:44 pm
Actually, if Ben dies his survivors will still collect on his behalf:-)
Whether SS is actually solvent is subject to debate…it’s a ponzi scheme…first out is financed by last in…this was originally a safety net and never meant to be primary retirement vehicle. From an assets to future obligations perspective, it is not liquid by any measure..say like a true insurance company…the assets are the ability of our kids and so on to keep paying in…when the baby boomers flush through as the average age is less in favor of youth, the ponzi will have a cash flow problem regardless of what CBO and the like say…
SS is similar to an insurance product in that we pay with our employers, tax that is set aside to fund a defined benefit at a future date..it’s only an entitlement IMO if you don’t contribute toward the benefit. It’s not an entitlement…except in the event someone who didn’t pay in figures out a way to benefit.
alex
November 14th, 2012
2:56 pm
we have jobs……
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
2:57 pm
B. Shockley — “Sorry Joe. Calling me names doesn’t change the fact that i have exposed you as a smoke-blower of Clinton-esque proportions.”
Afraid you’ve exposed yourself as that quite some time ago, Ben. But don’t let go of the dream! (giggling)
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:57 pm
AMERICA SHRUGGED:
I was disappointed when the President caved and extended the Bush tax cuts (thereby in MY mind making them the Obama tax cuts). I wanted him to get what he said he was going after or let the sun set on that “sunset” tax.
Let’s bite the bullet. Deal the cards and lets see where we wind up. Fish or cut bait…… lol I know a brazillion quaint little phrases that all say the same thing……….. trot her around the corral and we’ll see what the brand reads……..
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
2:57 pm
Keep @ 2:51
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/channel-2-discovers-potentially-dangerous-overtime/nS4qz/
[Aaron] Diamant spent weeks crunching the numbers from MARTA payroll records he got through open records requests.
Between January 2010 and September 2012, MARTA paid its top earning driver $252,807.49, $108,997.24 of that was base salary. The rest came from overtime 4,269 hours of overtime — as much as 82 hours in a single pay period.
Diamant found at least 10 drivers who doubled their salaries or better by racking up thousands of hours in overtime each.
Jay
November 14th, 2012
2:57 pm
Sheets.
southpaw
November 14th, 2012
2:58 pm
JHM
Had to leave for a while. To answer your question, I remember one year–1988, I think–only 2 tax rates were in effect, 15% and 28%. Although I though that the simplicity was better, that setup will probably never happen again. When George Bush ate his lips, er, his words, the top rate went up to 31%. That, or possibly the 35% that showed up a few years later, sounds like a good top rate to me.
Fred ™
November 14th, 2012
2:59 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
2:53 pm
No Fred, I just think we should gather around the campfire and sing “Kum ba yah”.
++++++++++++++++++++++
So in YOUR opinion, we should all call the President disrespectful names, call him a traitor, tell lies about him, or sing Kum Bah Ya? Really?
You can’t disagree with him without lying or calling him names?
Mama Says
November 14th, 2012
3:01 pm
Getalife I watched it.
But you confuse me by slamming RW media and then telling me to listen to the leader of the LW ideals.
By the way Debbie, republican governors have maintained the platforms they ran on. Matter of fact if you studied your own state you would know that most of today’s Georgia Republican Party are democratic converts brought to us by Sonny Perdue when he converted.
Get it, the dems turned con
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
3:01 pm
Mick,
You said
…….. A lot of words but I do not know of anyone denied their social security benefits that paid in, so why go there???……….
Ben said
… Still waiting for JHM to tell me what must happen (other than death) to deny me my social security entitlement benefits…
I said:
…….Ben, Joe is right under our laws SS is not guaranteed. I do think if the safety net ended you would see riots, but clearly if this or Medicare runs out of money the government does not owe it. That is why we must all put the ideologically BS away and solve the problem…….
Do you get the point, the entitlement system is running out of money and it is not guaranteed?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
3:02 pm
B. Shockley — “Point out a lie I’ve told.”
Done.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/08/28/as-gop-convention-kicks-off-obama-still-favorite/?cp=6#comment-1052372
For added fun, keep reading that thread to watch Benny get red-carded.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
3:03 pm
JamVet…..I’m just a stupid, middle class(whatever that is) taxpayer asking questions in various ways trying to get answers from some of the regulars on here of what they really think…..but Since I’m just an ordinary guy, in a ordinary job, with an ordinary life, and see myself as conservative, sarcasm seems to be what everyone revels in on this blog. Thanks for taking your precious time in recognizing peons such as myself. This country is in a mess and I’m very concerned, concerned for my family and concerned for their future.
Is the government the answer for everything? and are there limits and if so what are they……in your opinion?…….
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
3:04 pm
BRO
The only ones I know that are sitting on piles of dough are the top corporations who have legitimate concerns and obligations first to shareholders to make best use of retained earnings..investing domestically in jobs or capital improvements or the like is very risky…the shareholders don’t give a flip about how many US jobs they create or maintain…
Did you see the Zionist and Arabs are on an obligatory killing spree again? As predictable as the the left sucks right sucks dialogue here..
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
3:06 pm
And the press only lobs up softballs.
That is unquestionably true. Just like they do for ALL of our politicians.
The owners of the corporate owned MSM are NOT gonna allow their “news” flunkies much wiggle room.
Toe the Dem/Repub PR line or else…
gtt
November 14th, 2012
3:06 pm
Wingfield says different.
Mama Says
November 14th, 2012
3:06 pm
Red,
Stay here long enough and the real loons, like Auqagirl will tell you how racist and stupid you are. Jam Vet is just warming you up to it.
Stay the course, I have seen their true colors and lived through it
josef
November 14th, 2012
3:07 pm
FRED
“I’m speaking English. What language would you prefer i use? I know several”
Donc,certainement et sans aucun doute tu es le snob de la véranda ici à la grande maison e la Plantation Libéral!
Ja? Ja wolę polską. Wygląda naprawdę obcy!
Mama Says
November 14th, 2012
3:09 pm
josef
Speak redneck so I can keep up
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
3:09 pm
Did you see the Zionist and Arabs are on an obligatory killing spree again? As predictable as the the left sucks right sucks dialogue here..
Yeah, I just heard reports on that. Seems like those Mayans knew what the hell they were talking about after all, huh?
Mama Says
November 14th, 2012
3:12 pm
I don’t guess Jay wants to take the challenge.
No middle ground Jay ? Not even for a week ?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
3:13 pm
J. Konop — “Do you get the point, the entitlement system is running out of money and it is not guaranteed?”
John, Ben’s a well-known troll around these parts. He rarely contributes anything of value to the discussion and seems more interested in slinging insults and stirring up discord. AFAIK, he’s been red-carded (banned) twice since summer, but each time he comes back, it quickly becomes clear that he hasn’t changed his act a bit.
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
3:14 pm
REDCOAT
The government is the problem as respects the bipartisan (one of the only) action of disrespecting our money..they spend 30% more than we take in and all these folks want to discuss is whether to dress this pig in red or blue…
30% more than we take in….everyone should start their day saying this 5 times….the problem folks have with paying more taxes is simple…it gets wasted trying to have a government that wants to be everything to everybody…They can increase taxes on the wealthy or all of us for that matter..the deficits and debt will not materially be impacted…that will just give us more leverage to borrow more..
Cuts will never materialize as promised…government is failing us all and all folks want to talk about is which party is more “stupid” and wrong than the other…or gay rights, abortion right, carbon footprints, and all this other noisy, untimely crap..Let the gays marry, let women continue to make choices for themselves and lets not rushout and increase the cost of doing business further by being hysterical about the sky falling…just my opinion…I could be wrong.
Stevie Ray
November 14th, 2012
3:16 pm
BRO
Classic…I almost forgot none of our handjive is gonna make a difference since it will all be over soon..how exactly are we supposed to perish? death from above, below or what?
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
3:18 pm
Is the government the answer for everything?
Of course not.
But according to the most revered Republican of all time Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem.
BTW, when did hating Uncle Sam and blaming him for all of our woes become OK? Hint: It didn’t and this view is finally starting to catch up with those who have relied on for three decades.
…and are there limits and if so what are they……in your opinion?…….
The limits are prescribed in the US Constitution and by 200+ years of case law. I am not a legal scholar but I have been to a few rodeos over the past 50+ years!
I believe that the primary reason that Uncle Sam has had to become so heavy handed is because those in the “free market’ have in way too many cases, wrecked things.
The environment, the banks, the insurance companies, consumer safety issues, consumer rights, the tax code, the labor unions, the middle class and on and on and on.
When they start behaving again, I believe the big bad “public sector” will back off. Corporate crime is at an all time high and they know that they are virtually untouchable. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON went to prison for the crimes associated with the $10trillion economic plundering of September 2008. NOT ONE.
Many people, including myself are alarmed at this vast shift in power from we the people to “monied interests”. (hat tip Thomas Jefferson)
Washington DC is corporate owned territory.
And this is terrible news for the United States of America…
Brosephus™
November 14th, 2012
3:18 pm
death from above, below or what?
Dunno, and I don’t think I even want to know. Hopefully it will be quick and efficient.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
3:19 pm
Mama……Thanks for the heads up…….started out kind of entertaining trying to understand the left and why they think the way they do….but questions that would uncover how they really think go unanswered and usually with a indirect or direct insult.
An example would be…..What is your definition of “fair” or “fair share” in relation to taxes?……never have got an answer to that one only get questions back…or insults.
John Konop
November 14th, 2012
3:19 pm
Joe H M,
I do respect the tone of our debates on this blog. You are obviously a bright guy, and have well thought out points even if we disagree on some issues.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
3:19 pm
I…lived through it.
Through fourteen different monikers too!
Which is pretty impressive…
josef
November 14th, 2012
3:22 pm
MAMA
“Donc,certainement et sans aucun doute tu es le snob de la véranda ici à la grande maison e la Plantation Libéral!”
Well, shore ain’t no doubt about it you jus the snob herebouts down to the v’rander at the Librul Plantation.
“Ja? Ja wolę polską. Wygląda naprawdę obcy!”
Me? Gimme Polish. It rilly looks ferrin.”
Okay, off upstairs…time to bash old white men and uppity Negresses.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
3:24 pm
Stevie Ray………I have a lot of common sentiments and same observations…..maybe I’m not crazy…haha
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
3:32 pm
JamVet….thanks for your response….read it quickly, and feel I may have some common ground with you……
Do you feel the government is still operating within the Constitution?
alex
November 14th, 2012
3:33 pm
@ red, Jamvet is a bigot, can’t get away from it, aquagirl and he are angry and revengeful and would rather denigrate than discuss. Kamchak is taking a break-lot’s of fun too, Anyway, some people seem to think that sarcasm is the ONLY way to get a point across (not me, just 1 of a myriad of ways). Lots of self importance and of course the ready u tube video, all in all a fun braek from the daily grind….
Joe Hussein Mama
November 14th, 2012
3:35 pm
J. Konop — “I do respect the tone of our debates on this blog. You are obviously a bright guy, and have well thought out points even if we disagree on some issues.”
It’s the political dialectic — the exchange and iterative improvement of ideas — that makes our society better for everyone. I’m always pleased to have a polite discussion, even with someone with whom I might have disagreements.
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
3:36 pm
JamVet……My time here is up and have to go….work……I’ll check back later….thanks again
Redcoat
November 14th, 2012
3:41 pm
alex……I will see if I come to the same conclusions on JamVet and AquaGirl…..times are changing and these left thinking folks are in charge of our government…..just trying to understand so I can make better future decisions for my family……..Later
Nunna Yobinnes
November 14th, 2012
4:16 pm
Fred – Don’t put words in my mouth. I have not called the President any names. I do not intend to. You’re way out of control, and way out there.
JamVet
November 14th, 2012
4:25 pm
Do you feel the government is still operating within the Constitution?
Marginally.
Both Bush and Obama have pretty much tried to pervert that document whenever it suited them.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
November 15th, 2012
7:41 pm
The only reason Baracka Claus could have good approval ratings is because his followers believe the gravy train will continue running under his regime. He has done nothing else anybody could approve of.