Peter Beinart: Barred from Atlanta’s Jewish book festival
UPDATE: As the AJC’s Rosalind Bentley reports, tonight’s presentation by Peter Beinart at the Margaret Mitchell House has been sold out.
—————————–
Peter Beinart was raised in the Jewish faith, attends an Orthodox synagogue in New York City, keeps kosher and says “I love Israel and believe in the Zionist experiment.” He was also just named one of the “Forward 50” by the Jewish Daily Forward, a listing that marks him among those “who have made a significant impact on the Jewish story in the past year.”
Peter Beinart
So how does Beinart become persona non grata at the Book Festival of the Marcus Jewish Community Center of Atlanta, his invitation to speak this week suddenly withdrawn? Beinart himself is in some ways mystified, noting that “I speak to Jewish audiences all the time — at synagogues and community centers,” and had never previously been disinvited. However, he also recognizes that in his new book “The Crisis in Zionism,” he says things that have angered and perhaps even frightened America’s Jewish establishment.
In brief, Beinart sees Israel becoming less and less democratic — both in spirit and reality — as it attempts to swallow the occupied territories without granting basic human rights to the millions of Palestinians who live there. And he warns that over time, an abandonment of Israel’s democratic heritage will jeopardize its support among young Jewish Americans by forcing them to choose between Israel and their support for democracy and equal rights.
Last month, an opinion poll released in Israel highlighted the risks cited by Beinart. The poll found that 42 percent of Israeli Jews did not want their children to attend class with the children of Israeli Arabs; only 19 percent would give Palestinians the right to vote if the territories were permanently annexed into Israel. And just six years after Jimmy Carter was strongly condemned for using the term “apartheid” to describe Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, 59 percent of Israeli Jews admit point-blank that apartheid now exists in their country.
It is absolutely true, of course, that a similar poll of the Arab nations that surround Israel would find overwhelming, even vicious anti-Jewish sentiment. It is equally true that even today, Israeli Arabs enjoy a degree of free speech unavailable in almost any Arab country.
But it is also true that the United States maintains no “special relationship” with those Arab countries. Some may be U.S. allies, but it is an alliance of mere convenience, not an alliance based on deeply shared values and traditions. Beinart fears that if Israel abandons a two-state solution to the Palestinian problem and attempts permanent subjugation of the Palestinian people, even many Jewish Americans will begin to detach themselves from the country, with dangerous consequences.
As he writes in his book, Israel “must not do to others what Jews found hateful when done to them.”
Beinart is hardly the first to make that argument, and is far from the most forceful. But such things are generally said in Israel, by Israelis, not here in America. For example, Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, wrote that the poll cited above “lays bare an image of Israeli society, and the picture is a very, very sick one. Now it is not just critics at home and abroad, but Israelis themselves who are openly, shamelessly, and guiltlessly defining themselves as nationalistic racists.”
Beinart has been invited to Israel to speak and debate its future, and has received a respectful welcome. “In general, the conversation in Israel is less confined,” he says. “Israelis don’t worry about whether they have the standing to comment.”
So he can say these things in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, but not at the Book Festival of the MJCCA?
“Our membership isn’t closed to anyone or any one idea, but the negative reaction was significant,” Steven Cadranel, president of the MJCCA, told Rosalind Bentley of the AJC. “We believe this is a message best presented away from our facility.”
As a result, Beinart’s presentation has been stripped from the book festival listing and rescheduled for Wednesday at 8:15 p.m. at the Margaret Mitchell House. As he put it last week, “There’s something not quite Jewish about trying to deny someone a public forum to discuss public issues.”
– Jay Bookman
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547 comments Add your comment
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 13th, 2012
3:33 pm
I doubt you’ll see Redneck Convert at the Book Festival too. You know, the whole book thing.
Well, I got a special part you can kiss, Simple, but I don’t want to name it and get banned. Anyhow, we got a book besides the Bible in the trailer. I forget its name but it’s wedged in there with the phonies in the bookcase the missus put up as a kind of decoration.
Now these Israel people know how us Southreners felt when the yankees kept making us give Those People rights. I mean, when you got 48 White people that run a town and you give 438 of Those People living there voting rights, even the biggest dummy knows what’s going to happen next election. That’s why so many people had to leave south GA and move up here to the north of Atlanta with us GA rednecks.
Anyhow, I’m sure glad I settled at Bookman’s blog instead of at Wingfield’s. He’s kicking people off and got his whole blog shut down like a liquor store that tried to open next to a daycare center. Even if there is a bunch of libruls on this blog, it’s easy to see we got a higher class of blogger here. His place reminds me of that line by Jeff Foxworthy: “If the cigarette in your wife’s mouth never moves while she’s telling the cop writing her a ticket to kiss her azz, you might be a redneck.”
alex
November 13th, 2012
3:36 pm
@ indigo, as part of the political process and Americans the jewish business man/woman can support whomever they want and have all the right too..BUT and a big BUTT, the jewish business concerns have given to both sides of the isle and people of the jewish faith have voted much more often with the dem. Why, you ask, (well if you did), some people believe it harkens back to the Truman administration and their support of Israel in the late 1940’s…
Brosephus™
November 13th, 2012
3:38 pm
Paul
Ok. I was looking at it more from the apartheid-like view of majority over the minority. The tribal affairs very seldom get any attention beyond their borders.
Paul
November 13th, 2012
3:40 pm
Jay, when I wrote ” Voting? Can you have a Jewish state if nonJews run it? ” and followed with the US Indian observation I was trying to get at the idea there is a variation on the ‘democracy’ theme on reservations, as I think there needs to be. For the reason you clearly expressed I can see the vote as unwise – but a ‘right’ that may be called for.
Frankly, from as I see it now, I think Israel’s best course would be to divest themselves of Gaza. The West Bank? Jerusalem? That leads to security guarantees. Which is something I don’t think Palestinians are too eager to grant. Land elsewhere? It’s why I wondered how these two swatches became the end game.
This is really one topic where the longer I think on it, the more questions I have.
Peter
November 13th, 2012
3:40 pm
This is how a Republican Woman thinks !!!!!!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-woman-runs-down-husband-car-not-voting-045426220.html
PHOENIX (Reuters) – An Arizona woman, in despair at the re-election of Democratic President Barack Obama, ran down her husband with the family car in suburban Phoenix on Saturday because he failed to vote in the election, police said on Monday.
Holly Solomon, 28, was arrested after running over husband Daniel Solomon following a wild chase that left him pinned underneath the vehicle.
Daniel Solomon, 36, was in critical condition at a local hospital, but is expected to survive, Gilbert police spokesman Sergeant Jesse Sanger said.
Police said Daniel Solomon told them his wife became angry over his “lack of voter participation” in last Tuesday’s presidential election and believed her family would face hardship as a result of Obama winning another term.
Witnesses reported the argument broke out on Saturday morning in a parking lot and escalated. Mrs Solomon then chased her husband around the lot with the car, yelling at him as he tried to hide behind a light pole, police said. He was struck after attempting to flee to a nearby street.
Yes A Republican Woman in Action…. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!
JamVet
November 13th, 2012
3:41 pm
…some people believe it harkens back to the Truman administration and their support of Israel in the late 1940’s…
Try again.
That is a truly stupid non-explanation that attempts to dodge the real reasons why Americans Jews have voted overwhelmingly against Republicans for 80 years…
Peter
November 13th, 2012
3:45 pm
Holly Solomon, 28, was arrested after running over husband Daniel Solomon following a wild chase that left him pinned underneath the vehicle.
Hmmmmmm didn’t Romney win Arizona ??????
Well there you go folks……….. that Educated Republican voter !!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!
Brosephus™
November 13th, 2012
3:45 pm
Jay
Off topic, but did you see where Paul Ryan sent out a letter reaffirming his support for Price for the House GOP Conference Chairman position? I think we’re about to see a nasty fight over the future direction of the GOP, and I definitely hope that I’m wrong about that.
Welcome to the Occupation
November 13th, 2012
3:46 pm
Some may be U.S. allies, but it is an alliance of mere convenience, not an alliance based on deeply shared values and traditions
In other words, it’s not an IMPERIALIST partnership. Those are the “values” that really count.
stands for decibels
November 13th, 2012
3:47 pm
JV, it astonishes me how deeply in denial American conservatives are about Israel’s socialist foundation. It’s like they never heard the word “Kibbutz” before.
Gale
November 13th, 2012
3:47 pm
After a heated discussion thie weekend, my sister seems almost as angry as that Arizona woman. Sheesh!
Jay
November 13th, 2012
3:51 pm
Bro, I did see that. However, I think a battle along the lines that you suggest may be long overdue among the Republicans.
Paul
November 13th, 2012
3:51 pm
stands
Okay, so you’re saying American superreligions neocon Republicans absolutely adore a country that’s pretty socialist and has communal living and practices it takes a village to raise a child?!!?
alex
November 13th, 2012
3:52 pm
Pray tell of dear Jamvet what is it… Goodness you are really brilliant in offering your reasoning through 60 years of history, go laugh at the consulate killings, you are a bigot, blind as a bat, fueled by hate and Steeped in hatred for anything that counters your viewpoint.. Your 1/4 of a crayon awaits….
Paul
November 13th, 2012
3:54 pm
“However, I think a battle along the lines that you suggest may be long overdue among the Republicans”
Well, this last election was the test between the conservative ideals of the Republican Party and that proposed by the Democrats.
Democrats won. But some Republicans don’t accept it.
I’d bet even if they get edged out on these leadership issues that they’ll still make plenty of noise for a long time.
But as long as the fiercest adherents are contained here within your blog, I think things will turn out just fine.
Paul
November 13th, 2012
3:55 pm
annnnd…. alex cedes the argument to JamVet.
Game, set and match.
Brosephus™
November 13th, 2012
3:57 pm
I think a battle along the lines that you suggest may be long overdue among the Republicans.
I know that it’s got to happen. I would hope that they would allow a bit of time from this election though. With such a significant issue coming before the party right after this election, I see potential to lose a lot of moderate thinking people. I just don’t like the idea of either party having huge majorities, and if the GOP runs off the rest of their moderate support, then that could likely aid the Dems in forging much larger majorities.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
3:57 pm
Peter — “Well there you go folks……….. that Educated Republican voter !!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!”
I believe she was upset at him because he didn’t cast one’a them thar Electoral Votes like she told him to.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
3:58 pm
SfD — “JV, it astonishes me how deeply in denial American conservatives are about Israel’s socialist foundation. It’s like they never heard the word “Kibbutz” before.”
A point well made, and one which I had honestly never considered before.
Paul
November 13th, 2012
3:59 pm
JHM
Never tick off a woman in a SUV.
indigo
November 13th, 2012
4:00 pm
alex – “the jewish business man/woman can support whomever they want”
I never said otherwise.
indigo
November 13th, 2012
4:00 pm
Funny, he doesn’t look Jewish.
moonbat betty
November 13th, 2012
4:01 pm
Peter,
You should be standing with this Obama voter:
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/top-news/woman-who-drove-on-sidewalk-to-hold-idiot-sign/nS5GS/
They BOTH suck
November 13th, 2012
4:03 pm
Bro @ 3:57
With both parties always in election & fund raising mode, I assume the thinking would be to get the “battle” started so they can regroup in time for 2014.
Paul
November 13th, 2012
4:04 pm
Okay, moonbat betty, since you want someone to ask, I’ll oblige.
Where in the article did it state she was an ‘Obama voter’?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 13th, 2012
4:04 pm
JAY
The Zionist experiment has always baffled me…it clearly is not working. Sixty years on and no sign of any sustained peace in the region…I agree that this particular tribe has a long standing history of keeping things in the family…whether business relationships or in the case of Israel. Jewish businesses do business with Jewish vendors, and they want to keep expanding Israel solely for the sake of providing for more Jews…
I like Jewish folks and I’m married to a princess….however at some point you have to call it what it is…the Jewish tribe does not and has not been successful in assimilation to the general population..at least not in most instances..
One guy points this out and he is ostracized..not unexpected…
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
4:05 pm
‘Where in the article did it state she was an ‘Obama voter’?’
How does MB even know this person voted at all?
godless heathen
November 13th, 2012
4:06 pm
Man shot and killed during prayers at Atlanta-area megachurch; suspect arrested
John Bazemore / AP
A Fulton County sheriff’s deputy stands guard Wednesday outside the World Changers International church near College Park, Ga., after a fatal shooting inside
Educated Democratic voter.
Paul
November 13th, 2012
4:09 pm
LHU
Well… it IS moonbat betty, after all –
Rather like godless’s 4:06?
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
4:09 pm
Any of you folks know anybody with severe asthma? For those of you piling on the “free” healthcare bandwagon, this is what’s in our future for healthcare.
“The UK drugs watchdog the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), in draft guidance published today (November 9), has recommended that Swiss drug major Novartis’ (NOVN: VX) Xolair (omalizumab) should no longer be made available on the National Health Service for treating severe, persistent allergic asthma in adults and children. The updated cost effectiveness analysis still included a number of uncertainties related to the mortality risk among the subgroups of people with very severe, persistent asthma, to whom omalizumab is offered in clinical practice, the NICE stated. However, even when assuming higher mortality rates to reflect people with very severe asthma, omalizumab could not be considered a cost-effective use
of NHS resources. The Committee was aware of health-related quality of life benefits that were not included in the economic modelling but considered that these benefits are currently not quantifiable, and was not persuaded that the inclusion of these additional benefits would be sufficient to make omalizumab good value for money. Final guidance is expected to be published in April 2013.”
Basically, your life ain’t worth the cost to the UK. But I’m sure that’ll never happen here, right?
moonbat betty
November 13th, 2012
4:11 pm
Where in Peter’s article does it say the woman voted or voted for Romney for that matter?
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
4:13 pm
‘Rather like godless’s 4:06?’
I find it funny when racists are racist and do not even know they are racists…’I know people that have friends that are blacks…’
Jay
November 13th, 2012
4:14 pm
Right, RB. Cuz it’s just WRONG when government decides to use cheaper, more effective drugs that might save more lives, instead of using the less effective, more expensive drugs that Big Pharma wants to sell us.
Do you even hear yourself?
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
4:15 pm
‘Do you even hear yourself?’
This dude is the poster child for Jindal’s new project…
moonbat betty
November 13th, 2012
4:16 pm
Works both ways LHU.
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
4:17 pm
‘Do you even hear yourself?’
And you are welcome to point it out when it does…as shall I…
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
4:18 pm
Oops…wrong gooper…
‘
‘Works both ways LHU.’
And you are welcome to point it out when it does…as shall I…
JamVet
November 13th, 2012
4:19 pm
alex, you are truly laughable for offering that Truman nonsense up as the reason why you cons keep getting completely annihilated by the Jewish voting demographic.
It’s all good, we will continue to do so and you will continue to play stupid…
Mr. Snarky
November 13th, 2012
4:21 pm
Uninviting someone like this seems unseemly to me.
josef
November 13th, 2012
4:22 pm
There are a number of things at work here that need to be mentioned. There is a perception among non Jews that our tribe is some monolithic unity. Jews have contributed to this image in no small part by being extremely cautious about airing our dirty laundry in public. “What will the goyim think” is much more than a running joke intra tribu. Among our own, though, the multiplicity of opinions has long been a mainstay of not just the secular culture, but the religion in which it is based. “Where there are two Jews there are at least five opinions.”
As for the banning, and that’s what it is whether we want to call it that or not, this is one of the, and I do not use the term lightly, heartrending actions imaginable. For Jews, a culture the object of a litany of bans to ban anything, but most especially a book, is to me the very antithesis of what being a Jew is all about.
ZamVet says “And as soon as the Israelis started building walls, that tragic irony was not lost on me…” However much that wall may be viewed as a security measure, rightly or wrongly, there are just some things a Jew cannot do and that is one of them.
Secondly, what we are seeing in Israel among Israeli Jews is a sea change in the demographics and not just among the Arab-Palestinian and Jewish, but within the Jewish population itself. It is changing rapidly due to socio-economic factors from a predominately Ashekenazi, Western European cultural milieu to a Mizrachi-Sephardi dominated one. The world views of the two communities are steeped in two millenia of living subservient to regimes that are as distinct as are their Christian and Muslim natures.
This is the issue coloring all that is domestic Israeli Jewish politics. It is absent in the American and Western European view of “our little brother.”
Beinart dares to lay bare for an American audience not just the inequalities of the Israeli state toward its non Jewish minorities, but the Askenazi inequalities toward its Eastern Jews. That, I believe, is really what lies more at the heart of this banning. It runs too counter to the Askenazi Zionist vision.
More optimistically, though, we can look at this as growing pains. What matters is how we, first we Jews, and secondly we Americans confront it.
Non negotiable, however, is the two-state solution.
indigo
November 13th, 2012
4:22 pm
Just out of curiosity, how many other peoples on Earth claim an ancient God-given right to a certain area of land?
Brosephus™
November 13th, 2012
4:26 pm
They BOTH
The one problem that I see is that the far right has a much larger PR organization when compared to moderates. Moderates pushing this battle would be like the 54th attempting to storm Ft. Wagner in my opinion.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
4:26 pm
RB — “Any of you folks know anybody with severe asthma? For those of you piling on the “free” healthcare bandwagon, this is what’s in our future for healthcare.”
“The UK drugs watchdog the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), in draft guidance published today (November 9), has recommended that Swiss drug major Novartis’ (NOVN: VX) Xolair (omalizumab) should no longer be made available on the National Health Service for treating severe, persistent allergic asthma in adults and children.”
Omalizumab. DNA-Recombinant chimeric humanized antibody. Genetically engineered. Costs anywhere from around $10K and up per year.
http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/medicalpubs/pharmacy/janfeb2004/omalizumab.htm
“Basically, your life ain’t worth the cost to the UK. But I’m sure that’ll never happen here, right?”
You have any idea how much Monoclonal Antibody drugs (MABs) cost, RB? I do. A *very* good idea, in fact.
If you had to contribute to the $60K+ per year it cost when *I* was on a MAB a few years ago, I bet it wouldn’t have been worth it to *you,* either.
godless heathen
November 13th, 2012
4:27 pm
Lord Help Us: Get ye to a dictionary, peaches.
Brosephus™
November 13th, 2012
4:28 pm
There is a perception among non Jews that our tribe is some monolithic unity.
Been there, done that, and got the t-shirt to prove it. Further proof could be found above @ 4:01 and 4:06…
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
4:29 pm
Jay, “Right, RB. Cuz it’s just WRONG when government decides to use cheaper, more effective drugs that might save more lives, instead of using the less effective, more expensive drugs that Big Pharma wants to sell us.”
What are they replacing it with? Maybe you should go see what’s available to severe asthmatics before you flap your gums, Jay.
They BOTH suck
November 13th, 2012
4:29 pm
josef: Thanks for your analysis and take on this issue. Seems to be well thought out and provides a detailed yet broader take on this issue.
I knew when the “real Jew” showed up, we would be getting the “real” skinny.
No offense to the Jews who have been deemed to be “fake” by non Jews on this blog.
alex
November 13th, 2012
4:29 pm
@ Paul, you have to share the crayon with Jamvet… Now get to it….
Jay, interesting and refreshing(?) discussion, about the book fair issue@ Brosephus, this election allows the republicans to rethink their position regarding social issues, mostly. If they do not and continue to careen down their current path, they will cease to be an effective voice for many americans ( and are currently not a very effective voice at all). If they do change their approach we will all benefit for the intellectual discourse and learning that can come from both sides, although there is no doubt that this blog provides vivid evidence that there are some on both sides of the isle whom cannot or will not learn or consider any other viewpoint, they are the most strident and the most desparate to make their voice heard above all others. They try to drown out more reasonable ideas, they cannot be allowed to prevail on EITHER side!
Back to I-285, oy! the joys of the burbs….
josef
November 13th, 2012
4:30 pm
indigo
The American Indians and a number of African societies.
JamVet
November 13th, 2012
4:31 pm
Too bad that Tcrier isn’t around to inform us as to who are the real Jews, the real Christians and the real homo sapiens!
They BOTH suck
November 13th, 2012
4:31 pm
Bro
I left those alone, but did notice the broad-brushed strokes of those posts.
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
4:32 pm
‘Lord Help Us: Get ye to a dictionary, peaches.’
Check…instead of referring to an obtuse, oblivious ‘racist,’ I should have referred to an obtuse, oblivious bigot…sorry…
Paul
November 13th, 2012
4:32 pm
josef
I’d hoped you’d show up and offer a different perspective to think about.
Thank you.
indigo
Regardless of their claim, it was the UN that granted the land.
Brosephus™
November 13th, 2012
4:32 pm
They BOTH
That’s all I have to say about them. Water off a duck’s back.
JamVet
November 13th, 2012
4:34 pm
Back to I-285, oy! the joys of the burbs…
LOL at workplace screw offs.
Who then go out and contribute to Atlanta’s road rage!
Paul
November 13th, 2012
4:38 pm
alex
“@ Paul, you have to share the crayon with Jamvet… Now get to it….”
Although this is a forum to discuss ideas, some want to make it about ‘winning.’ You’d already lost the argument to JamVet. No need to broadcast it to those who’ve just arrived.
Y’know, first your inability to answer the Republican criticism of Obama of ‘what’s his experience to be president?” when applied to Rubio and your resort to whatever it is you resort to…. then this…. JamVet likes base -a – ball. I threw, he threw. You’ve just swung two strikes. You’ve still a chance at redemption.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 13th, 2012
4:38 pm
JOE
I’m with you on the pharma thing…unfortunately, one of the many failings of PelosiCare is the disincentive to negotiate meaningful discounts from Big Pharma who are master cash machines for politicians… the savings anticipated by bill will never come remotely close to projected…the pushback by providers getting squeezed will make politicians forget about that aspect of the big “plan”..
moonbat betty
November 13th, 2012
4:39 pm
Yeah, there’s never broad strokes taken by the left here.
That was the point…
Some can dish it out, but can’t take it.
JKL2
November 13th, 2012
4:40 pm
-“There’s something not quite Jewish about trying to deny someone a public forum to discuss public issues.”
obama supporters showing intolerence of others. Wow! I never saw that one coming…
Israeli’s don’t want to give equal rights to people who have sworn to wipe them off the face of the Earth. Who would have thought?
I know I want our terrorists to be as comfortable as possible while bombing us on a daily basis. Where can I send a check to help them out?
josef
November 13th, 2012
4:40 pm
BOTH
This is just now making the mainstream news. It’s been a hot topic for some time within the tribe. Thank you for the comments. I know it’s a running joke around the front verandah here at the Liberal Plantation Manor house, but, really that “real Jew” thing strikes to the core of much of the discussion of the State of Israel and our American special relationship. A “real Jew” is just not supposed to do anything but toe the party line. Step out of line…and it’s herem…
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 13th, 2012
4:41 pm
Josef
Glad you pointed this out…I can only imagine the conflict between the tribes within the tribe…
I still scratch my head on Israel…seems if my child was targeted and killed by the enemy, it would be a couple or three generations of peace before any meaningful healing can take place..
Travis McGee
November 13th, 2012
4:41 pm
As a family counselor I used to marvel at abused children who grew up to abuse their children.
And, I also marvel at a people (nation) who have suffered such terrible abuse in turn afflecting their neighbors with unkind treatment.
Does the situation with Israel and the Palistinians kinda remind you of our dealings with Native Americans? It does me.
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
4:42 pm
Little lying Joey, “You have any idea how much Monoclonal Antibody drugs (MABs) cost, RB? I do. A *very* good idea, in fact.
If you had to contribute to the $60K+ per year it cost when *I* was on a MAB a few years ago, I bet it wouldn’t have been worth it to *you,* either.”
Yes, Joey, I do know. And I thought all this healthcare crap you people have shoved down our throats was for people just like these who can’t afford these high value drugs. Now they’re telling these same people, “oops, too expensive. sorry!”
Now, where do I recall hearing something about death panels??????
They BOTH suck
November 13th, 2012
4:44 pm
“Yeah, there’s never broad strokes taken by the left here.”
Who claimed there wasn’t and how exactly does that absolve and give individual for doing it?
They BOTH suck
November 13th, 2012
4:44 pm
any given, not and given
excuse me
Paul
November 13th, 2012
4:45 pm
josef
” A “real Jew” is just not supposed to do anything but toe the party line. Step out of line…and it’s herem…”
real Jews are Republicans? What’s the Jewish acronym for ‘RINO’? I mean, ‘JINO’?
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
4:45 pm
Jay, got an answer? Surely you didn’t pop in here shoveling that crap and not have any idea WTF you’re talking about, right? I’ll take either a cheap alternative medicine or and apology from you, please? Whatcha got?
Paul
November 13th, 2012
4:46 pm
RB from Gwinnett
” And I thought all this healthcare crap you people have shoved down our throats was for people just like these who can’t afford these high value drugs.”
Well, you thought wrong.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
4:46 pm
S. Ray — “I’m with you on the pharma thing…unfortunately, one of the many failings of PelosiCare is the disincentive to negotiate meaningful discounts from Big Pharma who are master cash machines for politicians… ”
Regrettably, it wasn’t in the Part D legislation, either.
They BOTH suck
November 13th, 2012
4:46 pm
josef
I have briefly read on the topic in terms of how you presented it. Probably not as much as I should, but knew there were “internal battles” along the lines as you stated.
They BOTH suck
November 13th, 2012
4:48 pm
Paul @ 4:45
Good one. That is funny.
ByteMe - Got ilk?
November 13th, 2012
4:49 pm
Jay, you have one part not quite right:
As he put it last week, “There’s something not quite Jewish about trying to deny someone a public forum to discuss public issues.”
My understanding of what went on is that once the decision was made that the author’s controversy was going to be more than the JCC wanted to handle during a book fair, they helped find the alternative site for him to promote his book and his ideas.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
4:51 pm
RB — “Yes, Joey, I do know.”
Well, I’m sincerely sorry to hear that, RB. You’re a monumental jerk, but I wouldn’t wish upon you or anyone close to you the kind of disease that called for treatment with a MAB.
“And I thought all this healthcare crap you people have shoved down our throats was for people just like these who can’t afford these high value drugs.”
As has been pointed out, you thought wrong. Maybe, as I’ve suggested, you should ask more questions and leap to fewer conclusions.
“Now they’re telling these same people, “oops, too expensive. sorry!”
That’s funny. I thought that was the UK National Health program you were talking about. I think your aim’s a little off, RB. (giggling)
“Now, where do I recall hearing something about death panels?”
From the cons. Strangely, they don’t seem to have a problem with “death panels” when an HMO employs them. If the Federal government chose not to provide a treatment on cost grounds, it seems you’d lose your head over it. But when BC/BS, Humana or United does it, not a peep out of you.
I wonder why.
Logical Dude
November 13th, 2012
4:52 pm
Travis: Does the situation with Israel and the Palistinians kinda remind you of our dealings with Native Americans? It does me.
I’m not (old enough) familiar enough with the native american situation to tell the similarities with Israel’s actions regarding the Palestinians. I am however, familiar enough with Apartheid to see the similarities. One group of people treating another group of people as so different, that they must be shunned and disallowed from participating in the state functions (including commerce).
I ache to see Israel act this way, but I do not see how they will stop this, either.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
4:52 pm
RB — “I’ll take either a cheap alternative medicine or and apology from you, please? Whatcha got?”
Oh, the irony, it does become deep and thick in here at times.
josef
November 13th, 2012
4:53 pm
JKL
You take issue with this statement:
“There’s something not quite Jewish about trying to deny someone a public forum to discuss public issues.”
To me, as a practicing if not proficient, Jew who is ready to jump like a duck on junebug at broad statements concerning my or anyone else’s group-ethnic-religious identity, that statement is mild and tepid. Not only is it “not quite Jewish,” I will go further and call it heresy.
moonbat betty
November 13th, 2012
4:53 pm
“Who claimed there wasn’t and how exactly does that absolve and give individual for doing it?”
It doesn’t. My post was for Peter and then the blog’s pack of hyenas jumped all over it who were laughing at HIS post.
Enough of this idiocy anyway.
Have a good evening.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
4:58 pm
M. Betty — “and then the blog’s pack of hyenas jumped all over it who were laughing at HIS post.”
New to the internet, are you, Ma’am?
josef
November 13th, 2012
4:59 pm
TRAVIS
“Does the situation with Israel and the Palistinians kinda remind you of our dealings with Native Americans? It does me.”
Interesting that you (and others) should bring this to discussion. Unmentionable’s comment when folks hereabouts take to waxing on the Palestinian-Occupation matter, “all the Jews have to do is sit tight, kill as many as you can, lock them away on reservations, and in a 175 years nobody will give a sh*t. Ain’t none of them gonna give up title to their cozy little domaine here in the Cherokee nation, More of the Trail of Crocodile Tears.”
independent thinker
November 13th, 2012
4:59 pm
Hey Jay – If you really want to drive Jews and Israelis nuts read “The Transfer Agreement” -written by a son of holocaust survivors – Edwin Black. He got banned too when it came out. Taboo subject among Zionists and Jews. He details how Jews almost succeeded in getting rid of Hitler through a worldwide boycott in 1933 until the Zionists made a deal with Hitler that they would oppose the boycott if Hitler shipped Jews and stolen money to Palestine. My aunt and uncle made it out to Palestine from Germany that way. Jews who got their money sent to Israel split it with Zionist agency and could spend it on buying German goods along with the Zionists. Bank Leumi was started with transfers of money from Hitler. Germans continue to have a special trade agreement with Israel through today.
Of course our government was no better letting Jews on the SS St. Louis make it to the coast of Miami and sending them back to the ovens. And the Grand Mufti who represented the Arabs in Palestine was in Berlin collaborating with Hitler once the Holocaust got going and the Arabs stopped the transfer agreement. So who is right?
You and Mr. Beinert left out that over 800,000 Jews were expelled from Arab Countries after 1948 and became refugees. Egypt and Jordan claimed the West Bank and Gaza but to this day will not absorb the Arab refugees like Israel did.
So there is the rest of the story. Democracy is in the eye of the beholder in the Middle East and the Bush doctrine may be a failure- Hamas, hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood and pro Iranian Shiites in Iraq all democratically elected. Mission Accomplished????????????????
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
5:00 pm
‘Have a good evening.’
Almost 5…heading back up to Taco Mac, think I will have go light tonight with a couple of Spatens (h/t RB)
http://sixpacktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/spaten-mug.jpg
Cuz, you know, NUTHIN is made in Europe…
josef
November 13th, 2012
5:03 pm
BYTE ME
But, understand, this was a JEWISH BOOK fair…Beinart’s is a quintessentially “Jewish” book…since when have we set up our own index auctorum et librorum prohibitorum
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
5:04 pm
“Well, you thought wrong.”
So, you guys are saying all that “people shouldn’t go broke because they’re sick” crap you’ve been shoveling didn’t happen, you didn’t really mean it, or what, exactly? Don’t even bother telling us that wasn’t said. We all know it was. And if you think we won’t end up in the same place the UK is, you’re kidding yourself.
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
5:06 pm
‘Don’t even bother telling us that wasn’t said. We all know it was. ‘
Gonna need an interpreter for that one…
ByteMe - Got ilk?
November 13th, 2012
5:06 pm
But, understand, this was a JEWISH BOOK fair…Beinart’s is a quintessentially “Jewish” book…since when have we set up our own index auctorum et librorum prohibitorum
I understand what it is. I’m a member of the JCC. Do you realize what a fortress it is already? They don’t need the additional controversy. Blame the crazies who were going to protest and disrupt it. The JCC made a business decision not to want any part of that. And they made a moral decision to help the author find a new venue here in town at the same time as the J was holding its book fair, so that he could attract an audience.
josef
November 13th, 2012
5:07 pm
Independent
Have you read Rabbi Baeck’s “Days of Sorrow and of Pain?”
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
5:10 pm
LHU, “Cuz, you know, NUTHIN is made in Europe…”
If you’re hanging your hat on beer, I’d say thats a pretty sad case you’ve made there, LHU.
And I’d take a Belgian beer over a German one any day, especially if you’re buying.
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
5:11 pm
Jay, quit hiding and give it up? Whatcha got?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
5:11 pm
RB — “So, you guys are saying all that “people shouldn’t go broke because they’re sick” crap you’ve been shoveling didn’t happen, you didn’t really mean it, or what, exactly?”
You want answers? I’ll give you answers. Ask nicely first.
“Don’t even bother telling us that wasn’t said. We all know it was.”
Who’s “we,” exactly? Who else do you think you speak for?
“And if you think we won’t end up in the same place the UK is, you’re kidding yourself.”
You seem unaware of the existence of private healthcare and private hospitals in the UK. You’d probably also be surprised to learn that *supplemental* private health policies are sold in that hotbed of Gallic SOSHULIZUM, France (gasp).
Even so, I find it risible indeed that you’ll deride public healthcare for performing the *exact* same cost-containment moves as for-profit health insurers do, all seemingly without realizing just how ludicrous your argument’s becoming. In short, your argument appears — to me — to be ‘when private health insurers do it, it’s great, but when public health insurers do it, it’s bad.’
Oh, and just to make it clear, RB, that last bit’s my opinion, Cowboy.
josef
November 13th, 2012
5:12 pm
BYTE ME
I’m sorry, but put me in the category that says the JCC needs some cajones…it’s a book, we are people of the book, our identity is based on that…if the JCC is sponsoring a Jewish book fair, then do that…and don’t DISinvite…ay, there’s the rub…a bunch of wusses, imeoiauo. The frikken Ashkenazi ghetto mentality run amok…
Lord Help Us
November 13th, 2012
5:14 pm
‘If you’re hanging your hat on beer, I’d say thats a pretty sad case you’ve made there, LHU.’
It wasn’t the beer I was gonna hang my ‘hat’ on…just sayin’…
Paul
November 13th, 2012
5:15 pm
RB from Gwinnett
“So, you guys are saying all that “people shouldn’t go broke because they’re sick” crap you’ve been shoveling didn’t happen, you didn’t really mean it, or what, exactly? Don’t even bother telling us that wasn’t said. We all know it was. And if you think we won’t end up in the same place the UK is, you’re kidding yourself.”
Did you even read Jay’s response when you first brought this up?
[[Right, RB. Cuz it’s just WRONG when government decides to use cheaper, more effective drugs that might save more lives, instead of using the less effective, more expensive drugs that Big Pharma wants to sell us.
Do you even hear yourself?]]
Or did you just ignore it because it didn’t fit your view?
(and no, asking what should replace it doesn’t illustrate it, either, when the drug in question is merely a replacement for drugs already in the system).
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
November 13th, 2012
5:16 pm
Basically, your life ain’t worth the cost to the UK. But I’m sure that’ll never happen here, right?
Hey they have a lot better health care system than we do.
Longer life spans. Lower rates of diabetes and heart disease.
Overall they are a much healthier society.
They must be doing something right.
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
5:19 pm
Little lying Joey, “Ask nicely first.”
I don’t take orders from you little lying Joey. If you don’t like my comments, you’re welcome to scroll right on past and mind your own business, Joey. Funny how you keep telling everybody they have no right to do this and that, yet it’s YOU who’s trying to tell everybody what to do all day. Go lecture somebody else with your 4 required steps little lying Joey. Troll.
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
5:23 pm
Well, gee, Paul, since Jay can’t seem to tell us what is a low cost alternative to Xolair as his piece of crap post suggests exists, maybe you’d like to provide that information for him???? Give Google a shot and see if you can find something, Paul. Hurry back.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
5:26 pm
RB — “I don’t take orders from you little lying Joey.”
Ask nicely first. And stop calling me — and others — names, RB.
“If you don’t like my comments, you’re welcome to scroll right on past and mind your own business, Joey.”
You could stand to do the same, Mister Barge-Right-In-With-An-Off-Topic-Comment. Pull the two-by-four out of your own eye first.
“Funny how you keep telling everybody they have no right to do this and that”
I’ll say it again. You don’t have any right to speak for me or for any poster on here. And I’ll continue saying it as long as you continue doing it.
“yet it’s YOU who’s trying to tell everybody what to do all day.”
Didn’t *you* just demand that the *blog host* respond to you — twice? (laughing)
“Go lecture somebody else with your 4 required steps little lying Joey.”
BTW, RB, I’m still waiting on those freight-haulage-by-fuel-type figures. Have them on my desk first thing in the morning, k?
“Troll.”
What was that? I thought I heard a sound coming from under a bridge. (giggling)
Joe Hussein Mama
November 13th, 2012
5:27 pm
I’m out; everyone be well and drive safely.
And keep the ball in play. YOU know what I’m talking about.
RB from Gwinnett
November 13th, 2012
5:29 pm
“Ask nicely first. And stop calling me”
Is there some part of “I DON’T TAKE ORDERS FROM YOU” you’re having a hard time with, little lying Joey? Try reading it s…l…o…w…e…r or something.
josef
November 13th, 2012
5:35 pm
Okay, here’s my contribution to getting us to page three and something else to nyanh-nyanh about…
Jay
November 13th, 2012
5:38 pm
RB, cease your name-calling please.