Peter Beinart: Barred from Atlanta’s Jewish book festival

UPDATE: As the AJC’s Rosalind Bentley reports, tonight’s presentation by Peter Beinart at the Margaret Mitchell House has been sold out.

—————————–

Peter Beinart was raised in the Jewish faith, attends an Orthodox synagogue in New York City, keeps kosher and says “I love Israel and believe in the Zionist experiment.” He was also just named one of the “Forward 50” by the Jewish Daily Forward, a listing that marks him among those “who have made a significant impact on the Jewish story in the past year.”

Peter Beinart

Peter Beinart

So how does Beinart become persona non grata at the Book Festival of the Marcus Jewish Community Center of Atlanta, his invitation to speak this week suddenly withdrawn? Beinart himself is in some ways mystified, noting that “I speak to Jewish audiences all the time — at synagogues and community centers,” and had never previously been disinvited. However, he also recognizes that in his new book “The Crisis in Zionism,” he says things that have angered and perhaps even frightened America’s Jewish establishment.

In brief, Beinart sees Israel becoming less and less democratic — both in spirit and reality — as it attempts to swallow the occupied territories without granting basic human rights to the millions of Palestinians who live there. And he warns that over time, an abandonment of Israel’s democratic heritage will jeopardize its support among young Jewish Americans by forcing them to choose between Israel and their support for democracy and equal rights.

Last month, an opinion poll released in Israel highlighted the risks cited by Beinart. The poll found that 42 percent of Israeli Jews did not want their children to attend class with the children of Israeli Arabs; only 19 percent would give Palestinians the right to vote if the territories were permanently annexed into Israel. And just six years after Jimmy Carter was strongly condemned for using the term “apartheid” to describe Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, 59 percent of Israeli Jews admit point-blank that apartheid now exists in their country.

It is absolutely true, of course, that a similar poll of the Arab nations that surround Israel would find overwhelming, even vicious anti-Jewish sentiment. It is equally true that even today, Israeli Arabs enjoy a degree of free speech unavailable in almost any Arab country.

But it is also true that the United States maintains no “special relationship” with those Arab countries. Some may be U.S. allies, but it is an alliance of mere convenience, not an alliance based on deeply shared values and traditions. Beinart fears that if Israel abandons a two-state solution to the Palestinian problem and attempts permanent subjugation of the Palestinian people, even many Jewish Americans will begin to detach themselves from the country, with dangerous consequences.

As he writes in his book, Israel “must not do to others what Jews found hateful when done to them.”

Beinart is hardly the first to make that argument, and is far from the most forceful. But such things are generally said in Israel, by Israelis, not here in America. For example, Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, wrote that the poll cited above “lays bare an image of Israeli society, and the picture is a very, very sick one. Now it is not just critics at home and abroad, but Israelis themselves who are openly, shamelessly, and guiltlessly defining themselves as nationalistic racists.”

Beinart has been invited to Israel to speak and debate its future, and has received a respectful welcome. “In general, the conversation in Israel is less confined,” he says. “Israelis don’t worry about whether they have the standing to comment.”

So he can say these things in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, but not at the Book Festival of the MJCCA?

“Our membership isn’t closed to anyone or any one idea, but the negative reaction was significant,” Steven Cadranel, president of the MJCCA, told Rosalind Bentley of the AJC. “We believe this is a message best presented away from our facility.”

As a result, Beinart’s presentation has been stripped from the book festival listing and rescheduled for Wednesday at 8:15 p.m. at the Margaret Mitchell House. As he put it last week, “There’s something not quite Jewish about trying to deny someone a public forum to discuss public issues.”

– Jay Bookman

547 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
1:15 pm

I’m actually a little shocked by this.

For those unfamiliar with the man, he was among the New Republic staff arguing the case for Iraq invasion/occupation back in 2002/2003.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 13th, 2012
1:18 pm

dB – you and me, both.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

November 13th, 2012
1:19 pm

Oh dear, this one has the potential to get ugly real quick.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
1:22 pm

SfD — “For those unfamiliar with the man, he was among the New Republic staff arguing the case for Iraq invasion/occupation back in 2002/2003.”

I did remember that. I wonder what changed his mind?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 13th, 2012
1:24 pm

Well the “bubble wrap” mentality grows. This goes beyond banning an “patently offensive speaker” like a Pam Geller. However, even a Pam Geller should be heard in the right format and the offensiveness of her ideas discussed and rejected. The same with Beinart, if they are that objectionable (although they seem worth discussing to me).

Maybe they should invite Jimmy Carter to speak

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 13th, 2012
1:27 pm

“I did remember that. I wonder what changed his mind?”

to give an across-the-pond impression, it’s because once you see how crappy the Palestinians are treated, that’s the only opinion you can have.

AZiolko

November 13th, 2012
1:27 pm

There’s something ironic about this…banning someone from a book festival. I can see not wanting him to promote his book or give a speech, but banning someone…so much for lessons of the past having bearing on today.

getalife

November 13th, 2012
1:27 pm

Nothing wrong with self reflection and this is a good story for our cons to read.

No race is better than other races in the 21st century.

Aquagirl

November 13th, 2012
1:28 pm

The Rapture-Ready crowd should be landing here soon.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
1:28 pm

I wonder what changed his mind?

don’t know, didn’t much care. I swore off that rag after reading it pretty much cover-to-cover for more than 10 years, after Iraq turned to sh-t and I decided I’d had enough with that wing of liberalism.

(I have given the online version a chance a few times, in recent years.)

Fly-On-The-Wall

November 13th, 2012
1:30 pm

I see this in a bigger context, how will this ‘discussion’ play out here in the U.S and by that I mainly mean our political arena?

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

November 13th, 2012
1:32 pm

Marcus…. Sounds like a familiar conservative name here in Atlanta.

Real Scootter

November 13th, 2012
1:33 pm

Dang,I wish I could make a smart comment but the only thing I know about Jewish folks is they invented copper wire.Oh well……

bookman parrot

November 13th, 2012
1:37 pm

jay, you should write about how the Palestinians and other countries in the region could help, instead of just stirring people up. But stirring up the bee’s nest is Jay’s job.

Union

November 13th, 2012
1:38 pm

Squirrel. So we as a country are heading toward major tax increases and benefit cuts. Bookman. What do you have against Israel? Are you just following the Obama position lock step?

Simple Truths

November 13th, 2012
1:38 pm

I doubt you’ll see Redneck Convert at the Book Festival too. You know, the whole book thing.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
1:39 pm

Oddly enough, I was just discussing this topic with my 7th-grader yesterday–their social studies these days are focusing on Middle Eastern governments and economics.

And I’ve learned to keep my editorializin’ yap shut as I’m reviewing the lesson plan notes, so’s not to confuse things. But yes, I do acknowledge that for all its faults, Israel’s is still the most humane, representative democracy in the region.

Of course that’s still not saying much.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
1:39 pm

What do you have against Israel? Are you just following the Obama position lock step?

gawd, the stupids have arrived.

Fred ™

November 13th, 2012
1:41 pm

Wow. Thanks Jay. I was procrastinating again about doing the dishes, but this topic sure helps. Maybe after I finish I’ll watch some paint dry or something………

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
1:41 pm

Union — “Bookman. What do you have against Israel? Are you just following the Obama position lock step?”

Directions for Participating

1) Read Jay’s comments. ALL the way through.

2) Think about Jay’s comments. Really, really THINK about them.

3) Come up with something pertinent to add in the Comments.

4) Add it.

You seem to have skipped #1 and #2.

blackbird13

November 13th, 2012
1:42 pm

” But yes, I do acknowledge that for all its faults, Israel’s is still the most humane, representative democracy in the region.”

True, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t a strategic liability for the U.S.

Aquagirl

November 13th, 2012
1:42 pm

doubt you’ll see Redneck Convert at the Book Festival too.

Maybe they have picture books.

Simple Truths

November 13th, 2012
1:43 pm

I actually applaud Jay for this blog post. This is something local and fresh.

Most of his posts since November 7 are just mean spirited. I would enjoy a positive, forward-looking piece from Jay.

Regnad Kcin

November 13th, 2012
1:44 pm

Wow, parrot & union get upset about a speaker’s conference? Dudes, get a coherent argument.

And Bobby Jindal has some words for you, as well.

Jay

November 13th, 2012
1:45 pm

Glad to be of service, Fred. Mrs. Fred actually emailed and requested this topic.

Real Scootter

November 13th, 2012
1:45 pm

JHM,

I usually skip #3. :grin:

Jefferson

November 13th, 2012
1:46 pm

Head in the sand.

to some six to others half a dozen

November 13th, 2012
1:46 pm

alex

November 13th, 2012
1:46 pm

Granny and getalife, really poor taste and worthless, man you guys must be fun, sure you could find some correlate with Thanksgiving and some kind of con crap…move on and don’t you think that if Marcus wanted this guy on the schedule he would get it, after all the center IS named after him, : “Jane, you ignorant…”

as for the situation at hand, Restiction of a balanced discussion limits learning, just simply the bookfair will be confirming the bias of the participants, intellectually dishonest…. Nothing new hear, just unexpected form an Atlanta group steeped in intellect and the advancement of learning.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 13th, 2012
1:47 pm

Mrs. Fred actually emailed and requested this topic.

What did Mrs. Fred know and when did she know it? The conspiracy runs deep….. all the way to Fred’s basement I tell ya.

Georgia

November 13th, 2012
1:48 pm

This is an open wound that can never heal. There’s simply one sectarian group too many for the promised land. The problem is when you mix Dna with holy water and get some divine right of one sect over another. There’s no hope.

Beyond The Middle of the Road

November 13th, 2012
1:48 pm

I’m Jewish and am an ardent supporter of Israel. That doesn’t mean that I blindly accept everything about that country. I’m very saddened about Peter’s disinvite. He’s merely trying to tell a cautionary tale and wake everyone up to the dark side of the current Arab and Palestinian situation in Israel. This just amounts to a form of censorship.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
1:48 pm

School Bans ‘Schindler’s List’ Producer for Being Conservative

classic Fox “News” headline, that.

Jefferson

November 13th, 2012
1:48 pm

Race or Religion ? Brothers ? Equals ?

Georgia

November 13th, 2012
1:50 pm

How tough was it to trace Fred’s wife’s email, Jay? Did they use the drop box trick?

tm

November 13th, 2012
1:53 pm

Reminds me of that old proverb of the pot calling the kettle black.

They BOTH suck

November 13th, 2012
1:53 pm

“Banned in the ATL”

not right

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
1:54 pm

Aquagirl — “Maybe they have picture books.”

I hate it when they make you color only inside tha lines. :D

Arthur Balfour

November 13th, 2012
1:56 pm

I was trying to “help”..

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
1:58 pm

B. MOTR — “I’m very saddened about Peter’s disinvite. He’s merely trying to tell a cautionary tale and wake everyone up to the dark side of the current Arab and Palestinian situation in Israel.”

I’m curious — what were some of the other featured speakers going to talk about? Perhaps Beinart’s topic was just a little too hot for a book festival? Or were there other writers who planned to touch on the topic and Beinart was somehow singled out?

From what we’re reading here, I would tend to agree with you that it seems Beinart wanted to tell a cautionary tale. Having suffered through the Warsaw ghetto (among others), I would think that the Jewish people would be sensitive to inflicting the same sort of circumstances on others.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

November 13th, 2012
1:59 pm

alex

you are now the arbiter of good taste?

tee hee hee

Aquagirl

November 13th, 2012
2:00 pm

I hate it when they make you color only inside tha lines.

Fascism in ‘Merica is out of control.

JohnnyReb

November 13th, 2012
2:01 pm

I can see it now. The surprised, terrified American Moonbat who is about to have his/her throat cut looking up at the middle-East terrorist saying, but I talked to you, I supported your human rights.

There is nothing noble about giving a platform to someone with which you don’t agree. It sounds like Jewish youth may be like their American counterparts – historically illiterate.

Arthur Balfour

November 13th, 2012
2:02 pm

@joe: join aquagirl, granny,and getalife in the corner, you may take your coloring books, but only ONE crayon,divide it equally…….

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
2:02 pm

R. Scootter — “I usually skip #3″

Heck, don’t we all? :D

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 13th, 2012
2:03 pm

There is nothing noble about giving a platform to someone with which you don’t agree

So you are suggesting Jay ban you?

JohnnyReb

November 13th, 2012
2:05 pm

Good Fight – if he wishes; it’s his place.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
2:05 pm

A. Balfour — “@joe: join aquagirl, granny,and getalife in the corner, you may take your coloring books, but only ONE crayon,divide it equally…….”

Um, we had a crayon, but getalife eated it. :(

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

November 13th, 2012
2:05 pm

@joe: join aquagirl, granny,and getalife in the corner, you may take your coloring books, but only ONE crayon,divide it equally…….

Sock-puppets gotta sock-puppet.

“Sorry alex, we want sock-puppets that taste good, not sock-puppets with good taste.”
– Thomas “Starkist” Jefferson

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Arthur Balfour

November 13th, 2012
2:06 pm

Absolutely, beyond a doubt, wonderful taste, delicious…Yum, Yum, King of tastes…Any more questions? Now where is that CONSERVATIVE tastey Turkey and the pumpkin pie, pass the giblets, YUM…….

Lord Help Us

November 13th, 2012
2:07 pm

‘The surprised, terrified American Moonbat who is about to have his/her throat cut looking up at the middle-East terrorist…’

Cuz they’re all terrists…Jindal says call him…

Arthur Balfour

November 13th, 2012
2:09 pm

@ Joe I hope it was delicious,

Here are more quarters,Kamchak, make sure you “double-up”

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
2:10 pm

J. Reb — “I can see it now. The surprised, terrified American Moonbat who is about to have his/her throat cut looking up at the middle-East terrorist saying, but I talked to you, I supported your human rights.”

Um, there were those in days gone by that never believed Native Americans would live peaceably among whites. Or that African-Americans would do likewise once freed from slavery. And guess what?

Maybe you should dispense with your prejudices regarding muslims then, J-Reb.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 13th, 2012
2:10 pm

Johnny, so basically you are advocating that you desire a “bubble” so that you don’t hear anything you don’t agree with. No point expanding your mind or hearing someone out to see if they have any points worth noting.

JDW

November 13th, 2012
2:11 pm

“to give an across-the-pond impression, it’s because once you see how crappy the Palestinians are treated, that’s the only opinion you can have.”

No question this is true. Having been and seen on multiple occasions it is appalling. It also exposes one of the real problems we have here which is a population that has not seen other countries be it Israel, China, Europe at large or the Mideast forming opinions that drive policy based wholly on spin.

AmericaShrugged

November 13th, 2012
2:18 pm

Am I the only one surprised that getabrain correctly identified this as the 21st century? Not too clear on the definition of ‘race’ however.

alex

November 13th, 2012
2:21 pm

Arthur,I don’t need your “help”…… pass the Brandy, mabye I do!

New Drinking Game

November 13th, 2012
2:21 pm

Jews have historically been a culture that supports education, altruism, and the arts, including literature. That is why it is so ironic and tragic when they exhibit such a close-minded attitude about their own country’s policies. I understand that making a bad decision on power-sharing with the Palestinians could be an existential mistake but that is all the more reason to discuss all viewpoints.

Fast Miles

November 13th, 2012
2:22 pm

150 people a day, every day, have been dying in Syria for several months now.
It’s so commonplace that it doesn’t even make the news anymore.

Where is the public discussion of that? It doesn’t exist.

Instead, the focus is always on Israel and the Palestinians and what Israel needs to do to make things better. Because things are so bad in the Palestinian Territories that more people per capita were rioting there than in any other country during the Arab Spring (Winter). NOT.

More Israelis rioted in Tel Aviv against their own economic situation than Palestinians rioted anywhere in the Palestinian Territories.

And does Beinart write a book about something REALLY consequential? About tens of millions of Arabs who live under oppressive governments and riot to get out of that oppression? No, he writes to condemn Israel with baseless, pointless accusations such as that Israelis don’t want a 2-state solution.

Every Israeli Prime Minister for the last 20 years has been working for a 2-state solution.
Netanyahu wants a 2-state solution. Barak in 2000 met with Clinton and Arafat and hammered out an acceptable to all sides 2-state solution. Then Arafat walked away and started an intifada again, because that is what a lifelong terrorist who has been trying to destroy Israel since 1959, since BEFORE there were “Territories” from 1967, does.

And guess what, now the 2-state solution is dead, too. Now it is a 3-state solution.
Hamastan in Gaza, and PA Corruptionstan in the Soviet-named “West Bank”.

But the point is, until the Arab and Muslim world can learn to live peaceably with their own brothers, there is NO point to discussing how they can live peaceably with their cousins (the Jews).

And so there is no point to bringing a distraction such as Beinart into the discussion.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

November 13th, 2012
2:22 pm

Am I the only one surprised that getabrain correctly identified this as the 21st century?

I supposed that depends greatly on the number of sock-puppets you post under.

AmericaShrugged

November 13th, 2012
2:26 pm

“Israeli leaders have begun preparing domestic and international opinion for a renewed onslaught against Palestinian militants after more than a million Israeli citizens spent a third night in bomb shelters as more than 100 rockets rained across the Gaza border in less than 48 hours.”
Solomon couldn’t resolve this one.

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 13th, 2012
2:26 pm

The Mossad owns more Neo-con Americans than……….israelites.
.
lol

barking frog

November 13th, 2012
2:27 pm

Kind of a stereotype that Jews
don’t disagree with each other
doncha think?

BRW

November 13th, 2012
2:30 pm

JohnnyReb uses that moniker and then calls someone else “historically illiterate”. Pot meet kettle.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
2:31 pm

Kind of a stereotype that Jews
don’t disagree with each other
doncha think?

huh? I thought the stereotype was that Jews ALWAYS disagree with each other.

Unless you think that both in Israel and in the US of A, the Reform, Conservative and Hasidim love to hold hands and sing Kubaya together.

Reminds me of the joke:

Q: Why does a Jew always answer a question with a question?
A: And why should NOT a Jew always answer a question with a question?

alex

November 13th, 2012
2:32 pm

Don’t mess with the Mossad, ask the Norwegian govt……

Barack's the best

November 13th, 2012
2:34 pm

I’ve played golf with Bernie. He’s a nice fellow. BUT, our politics are worlds apart. Bernie must be right, though, since he’s a billionaire and I’m not. The precipitous decline in HD’s stock price had nothing at all to do with the housing bust that occurred prior to the President’s (first) election, and yet the President’s socialist job-killing policies are destroying his company. Go figure.

barking frog

November 13th, 2012
2:34 pm

Stands
then why the shock and awe that
they ban one of their own?

Brosephus™

November 13th, 2012
2:36 pm

So much for Atlanta’s reputation for being the “City too busy to hate”. Guess I’ll have to add that book to my read list to see what the hubbub is all about.

Barack's the best

November 13th, 2012
2:36 pm

Fred – if you’re a cyclist, being a fred is never a good thing. Just a thought.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
2:37 pm

then why the shock and awe that
they ban one of their own

I guess it’s because I think of Peter Beinart’s views as being not all that controversial.

By the way, I think perhaps “ban” is a tad strong a word for Jay to use here. It’s a term that conjures something, likely, more serious than a disinvitation from a conference.

Banderson

November 13th, 2012
2:38 pm

Fast Miles – I disagree. If his book discusses the discrimination of Israeli Arabs, then it is a somewhat different issue than whether you have a 2 or 3 state solution to the Palestinian issue. It’s a story of what’s going on within Israel with tax paying Israelis of different faiths. What you call a distraction, I would call a little introspection. Shedding light on the issue might even result in more people seeing that discrimination in countries between Shia and Sunni (or empowered vs. peons) is far worse than anything going on in Israel, but trying to stop the discussion just raises more questions.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 13th, 2012
2:38 pm

F. Miles — “But the point is, until the Arab and Muslim world can learn to live peaceably with their own brothers, there is NO point to discussing how they can live peaceably with their cousins (the Jews).”

Huh. That’s got to be the longest and most elaborate Tu Quoque rebuttal I’ve ever seen presented here.

I disagree. So what if another group of muslims is fighting yet another group of muslims somewhere else? That somehow stops you from talking to the ones in your back yard?

MANGLER

November 13th, 2012
2:41 pm

Maybe we (the nations with bigger guns) should quit “creating” new Countries on land where other people already have one. It’s a pattern that usually has less than happy endings.

Barack's the best

November 13th, 2012
2:43 pm

Unfortunately, the (highly conservative) pro-Israel lobby in this country effectively drowns out any contrary facts/opinions. As a result, Americans are generally of the following mindset as regards Israel: “you’re either with us or you’re against us.” Heard that before? The net effect has been a one-sided foreign policy that has gotten in the way of any measurable progress between Israel and Palestine (and Arabs more generally). The exception was during Clinton’s administration. And as we all know, Clinton was succeeded by ______ _ ____, who very quickly screwed up all of Clinton’s gains and set us back to the 1960s.

I say this as an American Jew who supports Israel (but who does not support the idea that everything that Israel does (or that America does on Israel’s behalf) is always right just because it’s Israel).

Jay

November 13th, 2012
2:43 pm

sfd, I wondered about that word choice myself. I think I’ll adjust it.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
2:45 pm

Thanks, Jay. I do think “barred” makes more sense.

barking frog

November 13th, 2012
2:45 pm

Stands
i guess when your friends and
family live where rockets rain
regularly you get a little
sensitive.

Banderson

November 13th, 2012
2:45 pm

Mangler – Which of those countries in the Middle East isn’t new? Most of the area was part of the Ottoman Empire, so I guess we could give it all back to Turkey.

barking frog

November 13th, 2012
2:50 pm

barred, banned, or disinvited the
dude still is not there for what
he said that offended.

Jefferson

November 13th, 2012
2:57 pm

Since 1947 how’s it working ? What will fix it ? Better or Worse ?

barking frog

November 13th, 2012
3:02 pm

Banderson
also part of the Persian empire
and Iran wants it.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
3:03 pm

BF @ 2.45, true. And toss in well-known horrors from previous centuries…

——

And just six years after Jimmy Carter was strongly condemned for using the term “apartheid” to describe Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, 59 percent of Israeli Jews admit point-blank that apartheid now exists in their country.

I don’t suppose President Carter should hold his breath waiting for an apology from those who have practically made a career of late, of crapping all over him.

T.E. Lawrence

November 13th, 2012
3:04 pm

Why didn’t anyone listen to me ? Damn Sikes, such a weazle !

Off Topic..but...

November 13th, 2012
3:05 pm

Is there a picture/list of the names of the Georgian people that have signed the petition to secede from the U.S.? They just do not get it they lost, plain and simple. Maybe it would be a good idea to let them go. California could sell Alcatraz to the ones that want to leave and they all can move there and form their own country!!

Georgia, The " New Mississippi "

November 13th, 2012
3:06 pm

Never saw this coming…………… Jews are becoming white men.

alex

November 13th, 2012
3:07 pm

@stans …Liked his book, “an hour before daylight”, not much else though..But he had this one right!

Brosephus™

November 13th, 2012
3:08 pm

I don’t suppose President Carter should hold his breath waiting for an apology from those who have practically made a career of late, of crapping all over him.

Only if he wants to push the date of his meeting with St. Peter up on his appointment calendar.

Paul

November 13th, 2012
3:10 pm

So Israeli Arabs are not Palestinians and Palestinians are not Israeli Arabs. Are Israeli Arabs Jewish? I don’t think so. For what purpose was Israel established? How did the Palestinian territories get reduced to two swatches captured by Israel and not any other land held by Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon or Syria? What ‘basic human rights’ are denied? Voting? Can you have a Jewish state if nonJews run it?

Look at our country. Indians on reservations. Yes, they can vote, are Americans. But they’re separate, have their own government and restrict who can be part of their tribe and take part in their democracy and receive benefits.

So I’m still chewing on the idea if ‘democracy’ as we understand it is even desirable or possible in modern Israel. Especially as there is an element of those seeking ‘rights’ who would gladly participate in the destruction of the society they seek to participate in.

Glad some of the usual suspects aren’t here. Rabbit holes are a whole lot different than a discussion to puzzle thru some of these issues.

Paul

November 13th, 2012
3:11 pm

Oops, sorry, as to the topic: ideologues are oftentimes pretty uncomfortable with others challenging their views in such a public way. If the powers that be behind the Atlanta Jewish Book Festival really valued the examination of ideas (isn’t that almost like a core holding of Judaism?) they’d let him speak.

Brosephus™

November 13th, 2012
3:14 pm

Look at our country. Indians on reservations. Yes, they can vote, are Americans. But they’re separate, have their own government and restrict who can be part of their tribe and take part in their democracy and receive benefits.

So I’m still chewing on the idea if ‘democracy’ as we understand it is even desirable or possible in modern Israel.

From the way you described it there, it seems as if Israel is using the “American” model verbatim. Other than our native population conspiring with others to wipe us off the face of the Earth, they both sound alike when described in that manner.

Just my opinion though.

skipper

November 13th, 2012
3:14 pm

If we (LBJ) had left Israel alone during the six-day war, we wouldn’t have too many problems over there now….they were fixin’ to take care of all of them. Now look at it….a LARGE PART of the world’s problems originating over there in the middle east. Before it is over with, we are gonna have to turn ‘em loose………the tiny country showed the world once what it could do.

independent thinker

November 13th, 2012
3:17 pm

Okay so now that Bibi’s sock puppet, Mr. Romney is out of the picture and we are dealing with that Muslim in the White House, lets get all the dirty laundry about the Middle East out there.

My family lives in Israel and I have been there at least 10 times. I agree in principle with Mr. Beinart that Israel is not a true democracy and actually Iraq, Egypt and Libya may be more democratic right now. How about Dan Senor (”Baghdad Bob” ) who helped Romney disrespect the Palestinians as incompetent capitalists and Mr. Beinert have a debate courtesy of the AJC at the Carter Center with Jimmy moderating? ???????????
However what is lost in Mr. Beinert’s anti Israel rant is that Arabs who accept Israel’s right to exist are very much a part of Israeli society and given equal rights.They even serve in the military and in the Knesset. We even has an Israeli Ambassador who was a Druze Arab here in Atlanta. When the so called Palestinians (Jews and Arabs were Palestinians before 1948 ) decided to make destruction of Israel their goal under Arafat and Hamas they clearly forfeited their democratic rights. Do South Koreans have an obligation to treat North Koreans as equals? Do we automatically give full rights to someone from Iran?

alex

November 13th, 2012
3:17 pm

@ georgia,, you may join jamvet in the Bigot corner….”jews are becoming white men” priceless….Now, what would Elvis think?

indigo

November 13th, 2012
3:19 pm

“will jeopardize it’s support amoung young Jewish Americans”

It certainly won’t jeopardize any support from Republican politicians. Many American Big Business moguls are Jewish and very pro-Israel. Since the’re the ones mainly financing Republican election and re-election campaigns, American political support for Israel will continue uninterupted.

Don’t think for one second Israel doesn’t know this. They are heavily dependent on American political and financial support and, as long as this continues, will keep doing as they damn well please.

barking frog

November 13th, 2012
3:20 pm

Paul
the best way to get rid of an enemy
is to make him a friend but it
requires the enemy to participate.
Carter sees Israel through a
Baptist prism and maybe Obama
too which is not necessarily a
good thing for Israel.

Paul

November 13th, 2012
3:22 pm

Brosephus

I was looking at it more from the Indian perspective. Restriction of membership, voting, running affairs in their lands at the same time participating in the democracy of the US.

Jay

November 13th, 2012
3:25 pm

Paul, one major difference with the Native American conundrum:

If given the vote, Palestinians would soon have the numbers to outvote the Israelis. In effect, you would have a minority repressing a majority, and that is simply never a good long-term solution for the minority.

stands for decibels

November 13th, 2012
3:25 pm

We even has an Israeli Ambassador who was a Druze Arab here in Atlanta.

I’m hardly an expert in such matters, but given that the Druze have had strategic alliances with Israel for quite some time, I’m not sure what that’s supposed to prove.

JamVet

November 13th, 2012
3:28 pm

Lots of great comments and observations. And a few boneheaded ones (hat tip parrot and Union.)

Every tribe, including mine, has its share of dogmatic and dangerous zealots.

And as soon as the Israelis started building walls, that tragic irony was not lost on me…