Economic insecurity a challenge to GOP

As might be expected, there’s a lot rethinking under way among conservatives in the wake of Tuesday night. Before the election, for example, I ran a sampling of headlines from National Review’s website, each of them supremely confident in a Romney victory, nay landslide.

As of last night, the terrain has changed:


Our Terrifying Message
People are afraid of the GOP

Why Hispanics Don’t Vote GOP
The “social issues” Hispanic voter is a mirage

Sifting Through the Wreckage
A grim four years lie ahead

The Machine
The numbers beat the numbers guy

Bitterfest 2012
Jay Nordlinger presents his apparently quadrennial notes

How Romney Lost
The bad news: Class warfare works

Under the first headline, about the terrifying GOP, we find this:

“… each of Obama’s core constituencies (single women, African-Americans, and Latinos) is seriously — and disproportionately — economically disadvantaged compared to the classic paradigm of the white, college-educated Republican voter. The rates of poverty and near-poverty among these groups are much greater, thus causing a critical mass of both populations to suffer — even if they’re technically middle class — from a greater degree of economic insecurity. Even as Mitt won the votes of those who make over $50,000 by nine points, Obama won those who make less by a whopping 22 points — enough to give him the victory.

Second, while classic identity-group issues like abortion, affirmative action, and immigration undoubtedly matter, conservatives are deluding themselves if they think they can simply take those issues off the table and then compete on equal terms for this slice of voters. In fact, economically insecure voters can even agree with conservatives on social issues yet will still consistently pull the lever for statist candidates. Ideologically and historically they are pre-disposed towards statism as the means of alleviating economic insecurity and distress. In other words, for the single mom, “Julia” is an appealing paradigm — because at least someone is taking care of her family. (If I hear one more time that Latinos are social conservatives ready to support Republicans if only we could pass comprehensive immigration reform, I might throw something).”

As an initial diagnosis of the problem, I think that’s somewhat accurate. Economic insecurity is a serious and growing issue for millions of Americans, driven in part by a changing global economy and by a system that concentrates more and more wealth at the top. French is wrong to limit that to minority voters, however. The successful government bailout of the auto industry, alleviating economic security for a million or more workers, helped the Obama ticket immensely among white voters in states such as Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin. A lot of GOP voters also feel that insecurity, but for the moment the party has managed to convince them that the cause of that insecurity is government.

Within this new economic order — which is quite altered from the system that many of us knew growing up — individuals still can and do earn great success. But the system itself has changed in ways that permit fewer and fewer people to make that journey. That’s just a fact, and the causes driving that change are economic and technological in nature, not political.

(The cause is also not moral in nature. Those on the left who attribute these changes to amorality among the rich are just as wrong as those on the right who attribute it to amorality among the poor. Both rich and poor are merely responding rationally to the system in which they operate.)

And the recommended solution by David French?

“We simply can’t retreat into our large but still-minority cocoon of new media and talk only to each other, working hard to get ever-larger numbers of our shrinking constituencies to the polls. Our cultural efforts have to be every bit as wide-ranging and persistent as those of the Left. Majority ideologies are built over generations, not overnight, and it means breaking the public-school monopoly, influencing public schools even while we work to diminish their influence, sending our best and brightest young writers and actors into the lion’s den of Hollywood, working to reform higher education and breaking the ideological hammerlock of the hard Left on faculties, and working hard — very hard — to tell the true story of conservative compassion for the “least of these,” a story featuring the efficiency and creativity of private philanthropy combined with Christ-centered love and concern for the individual.”

The admission about public schools is interesting, confirming my belief that Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse, and that those Democrats who supported its passage will one day come to rue that decision. Overall, however, let’s just say the scope of the solution falls romantically short of the scale of the problem.

– Jay Bookman

388 comments Add your comment

Obama

November 9th, 2012
7:26 am

First term accomplishments CV:
1. Got Osama (with the help of our service men and women. Thanks!)
2. Reduced insecurity by making significant changes to healthcare
3. Extended the Bush tax cuts
4. Added a payroll tax cut

We’ll do some more good stuff in my second term.

The Republicants should spend their time in the wilderness in deep thought. Quiet places are good for that. Like wood sheds.

TaxPayer

November 9th, 2012
7:29 am

I detect a lack of desire by Republicans to compromise. So be it. I hope President Obama and the Democrats alter their strategy going forward with that in mind. No more being bogged down by the likes of Mr. “I Object” and Company.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
7:32 am

When you think you have to resort to solutions, such as the author described, that is the time to stop and reevaluate the product that you’re trying to sell. If the product is useless to someone, wrapping it in silk and rose petals doesn’t alter it’s uselessness.

theintelligentdesigner

November 9th, 2012
7:33 am

Ya gotta give respect to the Christ centered compassion for dudes who make over $$275,000. Ya can find it in the Book of Deductivicous.

Obama

November 9th, 2012
7:34 am

Mr. Taxpayer.

Mr. Boehner is a good person. We can find common ground. Maybe.

Thank you for paying your taxes.

barking frog

November 9th, 2012
7:39 am

I don’t think we are going to restart an industrial revolution in the US thus we must provide
for the folks who are not intellectually prepared for the type jobs we have available. This
will undoubtedly have to be done by taxing the high profit people at a higher rate than we
have at present. until retraining can be done.

Brother Dave

November 9th, 2012
7:39 am

…Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse. I have to agree with you Jay on that one issue. You know, that caused me throw up in my mouth a little.

I mean good Lord, we just handed more local control to the State government. Today’s citizen just doesn’t understand what that really means or do they, and are too lazy. I’m not kicking State government; it’s just a whole lot easier to control your local government over your State or Federal. Who’s to say if the other side of the aisle would do with Amendment One if they got use of it.

But just remember, a Democrat is somebody who expects somethin’ fer nothin’, and a Republican is somebody who expects nothin’ fer somethin’, an’ a Independent is a cat that greases his own car.

Gratitude is riches, and complaint is poverty, and the worst I ever had was wonderful!

Aquagirl

November 9th, 2012
7:40 am

Poor Mr. GOP. His black/hispanic/food stamp/slut/parasite wife just doesn’t understand him.

TaxPayer

November 9th, 2012
7:40 am

Thank you for paying your taxes.

You’re welcome. And contrary to popular Republican opinion, taxes do pay the government bills, not tax cuts.

Obama

November 9th, 2012
7:45 am

Mr. Taxpayer, true, tax cuts don’t pay for themselves. But we all like them! Including me.

See bullets 3 and 4 above.

Thomas

November 9th, 2012
7:47 am

Up is up. Down is down. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer over the next few years.

The only issue we have in this country is a (self) education gap. The rest is wasted time looking at results and trying to explain the outcome.

barking frog

November 9th, 2012
7:47 am

The American people vote their pocketbooks and Joe Average thought Obama
would do more for him than Romney would and he is probably right.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 9th, 2012
7:47 am

it means breaking the public-school monopoly, influencing public schools even while we work to diminish their influence, sending our best and brightest young writers and actors into the lion’s den of Hollywood, working to reform higher education and breaking the ideological hammerlock of the hard Left on faculties

So really, he thinks the Republican message has failed because of inadequate indoctrination starting from childhood. Think about that.

H. E. Pennypacker

November 9th, 2012
7:48 am

I know it’s early on in what will likely be a multi-year proces, but yet another article focusing upon re-packaging and repositioning the current message and little to no discussion on the message itself.

Fly-On-The-Wall

November 9th, 2012
7:49 am

The Republicans will lose big in 2014 if they do not change their platform. They cannot go forward with the same old, tired message and expect to grow their party. They will also need to expand their vocabulary to include words like ‘compromise’ otherwise they will continue to decline.

H. E. Pennypacker

November 9th, 2012
7:49 am

I should be clear, I was referencing the NRO’s article(s), and not Jay’s.

Adam

November 9th, 2012
7:50 am

Lord Help Us

November 9th, 2012
7:50 am

I heard some of the ‘we have been chastened’ crap after the GWB debacle and after the 2006 elections…didn’t last.

I will believe it when I see it…

JP

November 9th, 2012
7:50 am

Jay,
Why do you only write columns about the GOP and what’s wrong with them…instead of writing about what’s right with Dem party? Just like O’s campaign, run on the opponents weaknesses and not your own strengths…of course, he couldn’t run on his own record!

Obama

November 9th, 2012
7:51 am

Mr. French is correct in that American philanthropy is a wonderful, helpful thing.

The shortcoming is that philanthropy doesn’t always reach the poorest, especially inner city folks.

Our more prosperous churches don’t sit in downtown Detroit.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
7:51 am

I think that the GOP is singing this song to themselves…just to cope…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghj5V5cUo1s&feature=related

H. E. Pennypacker

November 9th, 2012
7:51 am

I did read that Sean Hannity did a 180 last night on immigration reform and a path to citizenship, which will provide political cover for more GOP candidates to do the same.

It says a lot about the GOP when politicians are loth to get in front of talk radio and Fox News.

barking frog

November 9th, 2012
7:54 am

Local school boards are not being legislated away. Public schools
are not going away. Segregation by money or religion is not against
the law and is practiced on a daily basis in the U.S.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
7:55 am

ByteMe

It’s sad that anybody would view schools as a place for indoctrination. Whatever happened to simply teaching and learning? That’s why I don’t see any improvement in our education system coming in the near future. We, as a country, are too chickensh*t to tell politicians to get the f**k out of the system.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
7:57 am

“Majority ideologies are built over generations, not overnight, and it means breaking the public-school monopoly, influencing public schools even while we work to diminish their influence, sending our best and brightest young writers and actors into the lion’s den of Hollywood, working to reform higher education and breaking the ideological hammerlock of the hard Left on faculties, and working hard — very hard — to tell the true story of conservative compassion for the “least of these,” a story featuring the efficiency and creativity of private philanthropy combined with Christ-centered love and concern for the individual.”

and yet they have the utter GALL to accuse the Dems of propaganda.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
7:59 am

Side note … most entertaining (in a sad, pathetic sort of way) read of the election reaction …

For your consideration, I give you Eric Dondero

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/11/eric-dondero-boycott-democrat-libertarian.html

Georgia on my mind...

November 9th, 2012
8:00 am

The admission about public schools is interesting, confirming my belief that Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse, and that those Democrats who supported its passage will one day come to rue that decision.

______

Another excellent article Jay. You have hit the challenges from all angles!

Citizen of the World

November 9th, 2012
8:00 am

So, David French want to treat the symptoms without getting to the cause? The very real economic insecurity that results from the vagaries of the free market requires a social safety net because while some people are riding sky high, others are barely getting by of low wages even though they work long and hard at their jobs. Still others can’t even get a job.

So, his way, instead of creating a better public education system open to all, instead of affordable higher education for those who are qualified, instead of ensuring fair wages and working conditions, instead of a progressive tax code that asks more of those who have obviously benefitted more from the economic stability that a strong infrastructure, sound regulation and educated populace provide, instead of a welfare system that allows people to apply for help when they need it, he wants the poor and oppressed to accept their lot in life and just pray that when they hold out their bowl to private philanthropists who profess Christ-centered love (’cause I guess that’s legitimate love), and ask, “More please?” that they get it.

thuggishNews

November 9th, 2012
8:02 am

My vote choice was not difficult to make. As a moderate republican who believes in science and does not dismiss scientific data which runs contrary to what some theologian says, who believes climate change is a problem, who believes the earth is round and we have many more planets around ours, and the earth is not 8500 years old, and disgusted by lies and personal attacks on a president my former party felt was not even born in this country, the choice was very easy. I was a republican until the Terry Schiavo debacle and good riddance to bad nonsense.

The party now belongs to folks with very little education and little understanding of many of the economic/technical/global issues that affect humankind spewing nonsense and convincing many in their own ranks who are far more intellectual than they are. Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter and Hannity commenting on some subjects with a straight face debunking facts from known experts on such matters is a hoot for entertainment and comedy ratings. But when many accept their ignorance as fact, it shows the education dumb down that has happened in many parts of the great country in the rural wastelands where it has become easier to not intellectually critique opinions and ponder if there is another viewpoint. It is not a refreshing thought.

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
8:03 am

Before I head into the actual topic at hand, I have to ask–who, exactly, reads and/or is influenced by the National Review? I know it’s about as traditional as conservatism gets (although really, compared to liberal journals-of-record like TNR, or the Nation it’s still immature — in more ways than one)

The actual magazine’s circulation is a paltry 166,755. That’s merely a little better than the Nation’s, and I doubt their online readership is all that great either, even though I assume they’re somewhat influential beyond their raw numbers, at least within The Village.

(Just wondering.)

AU Liberal in ATL

November 9th, 2012
8:03 am

Wrong JP. President Obama has a terrific record. In four short years he accomplished more than most do in a life time. There is actually a long list of accomplishments which were highlighted during the campaign. Of course if you were busy sucking up the Fox koolaide you probably missed it all. You can be forgiven, but only if you stfu.

redweather

November 9th, 2012
8:07 am

David French makes one point I agree with when he says, “We simply can’t retreat into our large but still-minority cocoon of new media and talk only to each other.”

This is a definition of FOX News and Rush Limbaugh’s radio show. The great republican echo chamber. I, for one, hope they stay there.

Lord Help Us

November 9th, 2012
8:08 am

Charles Krauthammer today:

‘Republicans lost the election not because they advanced a bad argument but because they advanced a good argument not well enough.’

GOP just need to do a better job of marketing their crap…keep listening to this denial and GOP will keep losing.

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
8:08 am

I find it very difficult to muddle through this conservative wankfest when I come across a verbiage like this:

yet will still consistently pull the lever for statist candidates.

Ya know, NRO-ers? When you consistently use idiotic terminology like “statist” to demonize rational people in your midst? To quote John Lennon, “you ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow.”

Ronald Reagan Parkway

November 9th, 2012
8:09 am

As might be expected, there’s a lot rethinking under way among conservatives

_____

How long will it take before the partisan divide rears its head…the only reason that they are making these analysis is because they suffered a “$evere” lost; the Republicans were blindsided. I was watching the pundits on TV. Last night and they were critiquing the Electoral College. If Romney would have won, the Republicans would have said that America had been taken back end of discussion!!

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:12 am

“who, exactly, reads and/or is influenced by the National Review?”

I know … William F. Buckley must be spinning like a TOP in his grave.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
8:14 am

The GOP is staring to learn that it hurts to withdraw from the drug of self delusion.

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 9th, 2012
8:14 am

Government is the disease masquarading as the cure.
.
Learn it……..know it………because unfortunantly…….you’ll be getting it.
And getting it hard.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:14 am

JAY

The GOP has clearly been hijacked and won’t likely be occupying the WH remotely soon…

How long do you think we can continue to afford the ever expanding “assistance” which the DEMs seem to keep bestowing upon this under 50k DEM voting block? I think we cut defense by 25% but that won’t do much if the DEMS continue their tradition of increasing entitlements to maintain this expanding, supportive voting pool…we are at risk of running out of other peoples money…

How long?

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 9th, 2012
8:18 am

How long do you think we can continue to afford the ever expanding “assistance” which the DEMs seem to keep bestowing upon this under 50k DEM voting block?

Old white people voted for Romney. I think we should cut their assistance first.

Yeah, good luck with that. :)

JP

November 9th, 2012
8:19 am

You’re right UA Lib…your god-king has done a lot in fours years…record unemployment, record deficit spending, Libya snafu, fast and furious…to name a few. He has been busy! He’s also has improved his golf game. Enjoy the kook -aid.

straitroad

November 9th, 2012
8:20 am

The fact remains that we have a divided country right now for a simple reason, federal government control. As long as the federal government has as much influence in our lives as it does, we will remain divided. The founders never intended for the federal government to trump the states in most areas. All of the handouts are tempting to a lot of people but they cannot be sustained. We can’t have a massive welfare state and economic freedom coexisting together. The two just do not mix. Now that the president no longer has to worry about the electorate, we’ll see if he moderates or becomes more authoritarian. I fear the latter.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:21 am

AULiberal

Much evidence of more failed promises that the opposite…saying anything to get elected then attempting to follow through on 90% of promises..he is no different than his predecessors and his successors will be no different from him…the ability of the WH to influence much of anything is vastly over-rated..

Why are you suggesting someone who disagrees with you to stfu?

Better to back up your argument with some facts don’t you agree?

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
8:21 am

I don’t think either side has a monopoly on propaganda.

Looks like all the Republicans have to do is get more people to make over 50K a year. . should be easy.

Tundra Dude

November 9th, 2012
8:21 am

So really, he thinks the Republican message has failed because of inadequate indoctrination starting from childhood. Think about that.

They could be on to something……Adolph had his Youth Corps…..

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 9th, 2012
8:22 am

It is clear that the battle for the minds will continue. The difficult part for the progressives and moderates is to exposure the extremists real objectives and the marketing and packaging of their ideas as something they are not.

Ronald Reagan Parkway

November 9th, 2012
8:24 am

All of the focus on what the President has not done…what about Georgia? This state has been under Republican control for almost 12 years. Has Sonny Perdue and Nathan Deal created an environment in this state that does not alienate people of color?

alex

November 9th, 2012
8:24 am

Enter your comments here

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:24 am

“Learn it……..know it………because unfortunantly…….you’ll be getting it.
And getting it hard.”

soooooooooooo many comments … sooooooooo little time …

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:24 am

BYTEME

That’s the question..I agree we should increase rates and minimize loopholes and the like but that won’t raise, as currently suggested, more than $80 billion a year versus a $1.3 or so trillion of deficit spending and increased entitlement costs which outpace this amount…

How much time do you think we buy by simply increasing taxes on the “rich”?

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:25 am

“How much time do you think we buy by simply increasing taxes on the “rich”?”

cutting loopholes /= increasing taxes … it’s making they pay what they owe.

secondly, I don’t think ANY dem has said that cuts are off the table …

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:26 am

THEM … not they … criminey …

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
8:27 am

T Heyward and straitroad,

Uncle Sam is NOT the problem.

YOUR misguided proclivity for using him/hating him and blaming him for the ills in this great nation are the problem.

Reagan was a fool for ever making that statement. And Tuesday night’s staggeringly bad results for the right wing’s Anti-Patriot Party are evidence.

Shake off your thirty year Uncle Sam-hating demons and toss that moronic 11th Commandment out the window, while you are at it.

Your little honor amongst thieves club is in BIG trouble…

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:27 am

RONALD,

I agree…comparing Obama to GA GOP is an interesting approach…I can’t imagine mentioning them in the same sentence….

YouLibs

November 9th, 2012
8:28 am

Where can I get me some of this free stuff, anyway?

I must be a really bad democrat because I haven’t gotten any free stuff since I went to school on the G.I. Bill back in ‘72. If you call being placed in a combat zone for thirteen months in Vietnam not paying anything, that is.

Paul

November 9th, 2012
8:28 am

At least they’re doing some introspection and realize they are the problem. They’re lurching towards a solution (and that ’solution’ outlined strikes me as seriously deficient) but, at least they’re lurching.

As long as they’re going to invoke “Christ-centered love and concern for the individual” I’d suggest they spend more time on other principles, such as turning away from their old beliefs, repenting of their hostility and stereotyping of their fellow man, exhibiting a spirit of sharing and compassion in structuring the mechanisms in which people achieve material sufficiency, and to stop looking at others as tools to use to advance their own power agenda.

So much for practical religion.

alex

November 9th, 2012
8:29 am

Obama wins!
Obama annouces trip to BURMA!

will someone tell him there are elephants at the National Zoo (and zebras and ducks, …)

The more I look at the voting issues and the Hispanic and the black and white vote, the MORE iam convinced that this country is extremely divided, I do hope that our president (yes, mine too) jetisons the class warfare crap,it doesn’t help…

Paul

November 9th, 2012
8:29 am

Oh, and a whole lotta new monikers this morning.

Amazing how in a couple days following an election defeat, Jay suddenly gets discovered by a whole new group of bloggers!

Ronald Reagan Parkway

November 9th, 2012
8:29 am

Do the math under Nathan Deal:

1. cuts deeply into the amount that is funded to public schools
2. changes the rules for the Hope Scholarship
3. passes legislation that targets hispanics
4. creates an Amendment (Charter School) with intentions on trickery
5. allows several areas that generate large amounts of revenue to form their own cities

How is this not divisive?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:30 am

JAMVET

I agree completely that government, as the system is manipulated, is the problem…money corrupts primarily by allowing politicians to vote in the interest of re-election as opposed to for us…that’s the problem IMO…making the government bigger and bigger doesn’t change results if the dysfunction of the current BS system isn’t corrected…Like that will happen in our lifetimes..

Skip

November 9th, 2012
8:33 am

500,000 jobs lost to 150.000 gained. I like the direction.

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 9th, 2012
8:33 am

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
8:27 am

T Heyward and straitroad,

Uncle Sam is NOT the problem.
—————————————————————-
.
Tell that to the largest prison population in the world, the millions more permanently branded with a drug conviction, and little legless pakistani girls compliments of your creepy Uncle Sam’s RC toys.
.
tool

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:34 am

RONALD

Working within a balanced budget is always divisive..that’s why we spend 30% more than we take in on a federal level…they don’t have to balance budget and too many have convinced themselves that deficits and debt don’t matter…”government isn’t business..” that’s because they have the collateral of our and our kids and their kids earnings..

indigo

November 9th, 2012
8:34 am

The Republican Party, now owned by the far-right, finds itself between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, their Christian fundamentalist beliefs seem to lock them into unshakable stands on abortion. And, their rigid ideology on affirmative action, immigration and refusing to increase taxes on the rich also seems unshakable.

On the other hand, it’s become clear that American demographics are changing and will continue to change in ways that increasingly favor liberal politics.

So, what’s a poor conservative to do? You might think that rigid religous dogma among politicians can’t be shaken. However, if these politicians have to choose between political power and religious beliefs, power will win, every time.

Therefore, Republican politicians will swallow the bitter pill of reality and adjust their beliefs accordingly. In this regard, Romney has paved the way for flip-flopping and doing 180’s for Republicans.

YouLibs

November 9th, 2012
8:35 am

After thinking about it, I can’t think of any of my Democrat friends who are getting any free stuff, either.

What’s up with that, Democratic Party? Why are you giving free stuff to everybody but me and my friends?

Tundra Dude

November 9th, 2012
8:35 am

The GOP has clearly been hijacked and won’t likely be occupying the WH remotely soon

The “Special Ed” Brigade (tea party) agrees. Their solution is to take back the R party.
Sounds like a winner…..

Fly-On-The-Wall

November 9th, 2012
8:35 am

USinUK,

You’re right, that was an amazing article and pathetic at the same time. This is where the Tim McVey’s are born and I’m not sure there’s much we can do to stop it.

Citizen of the World

November 9th, 2012
8:35 am

Paul @ 8:28, I like what you said.

Joel Edge

November 9th, 2012
8:36 am

“I detect a lack of desire by Republicans to compromise.”
You detect correctly. You folks get to own the next fours years. Good luck.

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
8:40 am

JP – “your god-king has done a lot in fours years…record unemployment, record deficit spending, Libya snafu, fast and furious…to name a few.”

And yet he still beat Romney. Maybe next time you’ll know better than to back the guy that lost to the guy that got beat by the President.

Ronald Reagan Parkway

November 9th, 2012
8:42 am

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…

November 9th, 2012
8:34 am

please take off your rose colored glasses….a blind man can see what Nathan Deal is doing to this state…when all else fails in Georgia, blame President Obama!!

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
8:42 am

Ok, I’ve absorbed this, and well…

the scope of the solution falls romantically short of the scale of the problem.

if by “solution” you mean the ridiculously myopic, cluelessly non-reflective and fundamentally dishonest conclusions reached by this right wing brain trust? yeah, absotively.

For starters, the conservative message isn’t “scary” so much as it is just dishonest. Once you get past the nonsense they spread about the alleged unsustainability of providing the kind of social assistance to the citizenry that virtually every other civilized nation provides without blinking an eye, you have to assume everything else they’re peddling of an economic nature is suspect. And upon closer inspection, it virtually always is.

Secondly, those issues that they are now trying to dismiss as “social issues”–these are fundamental civil rights, and you NRO drones are CONSISTENTLY on the wrong side, whether it was WF Buckley’s embarrassingly horrid 1950s take on the “negro problem” to fighting women’s liberation in the 1970s to marriage equality of late. You have no cred, period, and you continue to appeal to a group of Americans that is literally dying off.

I don’t know how you fix this, and frankly I don’t care, at least not nearly as much as Jay. I’d rather focus on what Obama and Reid and Pelosi need to do to defend SS and Medicare against the Simpson-Bowels a-holes within their own party than worry about the losers.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:42 am

“Where can I get me some of this free stuff, anyway?”

well, when I want free stuff, I like going to Costco … they almost always have some nice samples out … of course, by the time I’ve left, I usually drop £100, so it’s not really “free” …

Aquagirl

November 9th, 2012
8:44 am

Amazing how in a couple days following an election defeat, Jay suddenly gets discovered by a whole new group of bloggers!

And they all smell faintly of foot powder and shoe leather….what’s up with that?

Patrick

November 9th, 2012
8:44 am

I think I can help the GOP by summing up their problems:

1) Expose’!!–What we are doing isn’t working.
2) We need to “have a conversation with” not “talk down to” folks that are not exactly like us.
3) See #1.

Mary Elizabeth

November 9th, 2012
8:44 am

“But the system itself has changed in ways that permit fewer and fewer people to make that journey. That’s just a fact, and the causes driving that change are economic and technological in nature, not political.

(The cause is also not moral in nature. . . .”
=====================================================

I will never agree with your assertions above, Jay. Not because you keep making them, but because I simply do not perceive the above assertions to be truth. I will keep speaking truth, as I see it, regardless of how small the circle of influence I might have. Truth stated is better than silence, imo, for silence iimplies concurrence, and this is too important to disregard in silence.

ALEC was created in the mid-1970s for political purposes. One of the purposes of ALEC has been to “starve the beast of government.” In my opinion, and in the opinion of Paul Krugman, the Bush administration – for ideological reasons – deliberately ran up the deficit to the tune of 10 trillion dollars – through tax cuts that favored the wealthy and through two unfunded wars and Medicare D that favored Big Pharma – for the deliberate purpose of creating financial difficulty in this nation so that entitlements such as Social Security and Medicare would, by necessity, have to be cut drastically. If that purpose was not political and if that purpose was not ideological, I do not know what is. Imo, doing that deliberately was also immoral (I realize I did not use the word “amoral”) in terms of the hardships it has created on the American people. Just think how much lower our deficit would be now had 10 trillion not been run up during Bush’s tenure as president.

Krugman: “Rather than proposing unpopular spending cuts, Republicans would push through popular tax cuts, with the deliberate intention of worsening the government’s fiscal position. Spending cuts could then be sold as a necessity rather than a choice, the only way to eliminate an unsustainable budget deficit.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/opinion/22krugman.html?scp=1&sq=Paul%20Krugman,%20The%20Bankruptcy%20Boys,%202/22/10&st=Search&_r=0
————————————————————

I keep repeating this truth, as I see it, because I believe that effective – and just – solutions to American’s financial deficit problem will not be forthcoming, if one of the major underlying reasons for this problem is not acknowledged as truth, unorthdox as that truth may appear to some.

Child, please

November 9th, 2012
8:45 am

Did the auto bailout work? Direct cost to taxpayers of $25 billion plus, with interest on top of that? That’s a lot of money to “save” jobs. Plus GM bondholders got screwed (I realize that just investment money, which doesn’t count to liberals).
I’m just looking for the cliff to kick in and eagerly await a financial ordering of the house. Please don’t do anything Congress, the mix of increased taxes and heavy spending cuts will do all the things you haven’t had the will to do previously.

I know one version of the Mayan calendar has us going away on 12/21/12, but 12/31/12 might be the day we set ourselves on a course to fixing 200+ years of deficit spending. Of course, we are going to have a big recession, but that’s like the headache after the weeklong drinking party. Inevitable.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:45 am

““I detect a lack of desire by Republicans to compromise.”
You detect correctly.”

yep.

that worked out REALLY well for you on Tuesday.

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
8:46 am

Joel Edge – ““I detect a lack of desire by Republicans to compromise.”
You detect correctly. You folks get to own the next fours years. Good luck.”

Given up the Whitehouse for good?

Splavistic

November 9th, 2012
8:46 am

Yeah, there’s a LOT of Christ-centered ‘compassion’ on the Fox News and Fox Nation web sites.

Tons!

alex

November 9th, 2012
8:46 am

@liberal, your intellectual lexicon befuddles the imagination, with supporters like you one can only and SHOULD question the presidents accomplishments…..

@stands..”verbal wankfest’ and a quote from John Lennon and YOU have the temerity to complain about verbage, goodness, you must be an amusing person….Give us more…..

ElectionsHaveConsequences

November 9th, 2012
8:48 am

Jay,

So your premise is-lack of entitlements and educational spending is the culprit for this paradigm shift? I’m just a poor, dumb capitalist, please help me out. Thanks,

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
8:48 am

Man, talk about delusional.

You right wing “drown him in a bathtub” types, think that we can have same size government we had when we had 16 million people in this country, even though we now have 316 million people.

Talk about stuck in the past!!!

Wake up.

Uncle Sam is corrupt! Exactly the way you pro-war, pro-corporate Reaganistas want it!

You prostrate yourselves for the very criminals who have bought our representatives off and who brought this nation to the very brink of A NEW GREAT DEPRESSION.

Had you neocons been around in the 1860’s, your fearless leader then would have written

“..that government of the BIG corporations, by the BIG corporations and for the BIG corporations shall not perish from the earth…”

Why do think that the disgusting Mr. “Corporations are people, my friend” Romney just got his ass kicked???

The answer is sovereignty. OUR sovereignty. As in WE THE PEOPLE’S sovereignty.

Nader is right – Washington DC is corporate owned territory. American corporations are awesome. And they were even better when they were the people’s servants, not our masters…

guy

November 9th, 2012
8:49 am

As long as this nation becomes less educated(and it definitely is as anyone can see) and the debt keeps on rising,no party can stop the looming disaster. When you spend more than you take in,look out! We all need to do the math and face reality.Not racism,REALISM! Why not cut all the aid to nations who dislike us no matter what? Stop the wars and take care of each other!

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
8:50 am

…verbage…

The correct word is verbiage.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:50 am

USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:25 am

Morning..

Taxing the “rich” defined as amounts over $250 at 100% would run the goverment for 140 days or so…of course that is unrealisitic…but telling…that amount may fund the deficit spending but what evidence exists that suggests the DEMS would actually cut through reform Medicare, Medicaid, SS…DoD is easily 25% fat…but we have to find real money in entitlements that can be cut soon…worst case outcome is we get the meager tax increases offered but any meaningful cuts are pushed of many years…the likelihood of them coming to fruition, especially given the political risks, is remote IMO

H.E. Pennypacker

November 9th, 2012
8:50 am

David Frum just had a relevant tweet:

The same people who tied the cement overshoes to Mitt’s feet will now blame him for sinking.

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
8:50 am

YOU have the temerity to complain about verbage

Of course I do. I am not paid to articulate my views to the public like an NROvian.

And frankly if you want lowered discourse *and* are the noob you’re claiming to be, trust me, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. (but I’ve been on extra-super good behavior as a victor because I’m really trying not to be dickish.)

DannyX

November 9th, 2012
8:50 am

Christ centered compassion???

Impossible when you worship the rich and vilify the poor.

Mick

November 9th, 2012
8:51 am

Krugman nails it again, no grand bargain, let them take us over the cliff and deal with it…

rc

November 9th, 2012
8:53 am

You nailed it Jay the moochers looters and parasites. Won. The producers lost
Just that simple.

alex

November 9th, 2012
8:53 am

Jay, interesting,helpful…..

Interesting articles in the WSJ yesterday witha voting map, more impressive for the repubs in color…Anyway, other than a couple of editorials that are a bit whiny the thoughts on the hispanic vote are informative, other than the paranoid Mary Elizabeth (bush is out 8 YEARS, 8 years, move on), might be helpful to peruse by all

Mary Elizabeth

November 9th, 2012
8:53 am

“The admission about public schools is interesting, confirming my belief that Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse, and that those Democrats who supported its passage will one day come to rue that decision.”
=============================================

On this issue of public education and Amendment One, I agree with you. Below are my words about Amendment One’s impact in Georgia that I posted on Jim Galloway’s blog, yesterday:

“In the advertisement clip above, President Obama made a concentrated effort to emphasize the word ‘public,’ in voicing his support for ‘public charter schools.’ I do not believe that President Obama would be in support of the privatization of Georgia’s public schools. This constitutional amendment, according to some, could well become the impetus to usher in the ’school choice movement’ in Georgia that would ultimately dismantle traditional public schools in this state.

Only time will tell if public schools will become more privatized in Georgia, with an underlying profit motive. If traditional public schools become dismantled for private or quasi-private public schools, in the long run in Georgia, then all of the students of public schools (of all races) will not be well-served. Only the few (of all races) will be well-served.

Post Script: The penchant for looking after #1, rather than the common good, is not limited to any race or ethnic group.”

———————————————————————————-

DannyX

November 9th, 2012
8:53 am

“Krugman nails it again, no grand bargain, let them take us over the cliff and deal with it…”

Indeed. Never give in to hostage takers.

Fly-On-The-Wall

November 9th, 2012
8:53 am

Joel,

That was just a ‘wow’ statement you made. I know a loss is tough to take for anyone but we’re talking about the country not a sports team. If your side doesn’t want to help govern then get out of the way and let us do it. If the House lets everything Obama wants through and things fail then you can have your wish and say that the Dems don’t know how to govern but if they stay the party of ‘NO’ then they must share the blame. So which is it – get of the pot or s**t?

Welcome to the Occupation

November 9th, 2012
8:53 am

Jay: “But the system itself has changed in ways that permit fewer and fewer people to make that journey. That’s just a fact, and the causes driving that change are economic and technological in nature, not political.

That’s a quite stunning statement. Almost blew me right off my chair.

Wow.

Do you REALLY believe, Jay Bookman, that the structural changes in global capitalism that we’ve seen since the collapse of Bretton Woods in the 70s, the “Volcker shock” and the completely reoriented role of the Fed, the consolidation of neoliberalism as a hegemonic economic force around the world starting with Thatcher/Reagan and then really getting its legs under Blair and Clinton’s “Third Way” as non-political.

Really don’t know quite what to say to a statement that wrong-headed and naive. Just kind of speechless.

Obama won, now what......

November 9th, 2012
8:54 am

All you libs better not be posting on your employers time. If you were my employee, you would be shown the door!
Young libs offer to much opinion without substative work habits!

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
8:54 am

“Krugman nails it again, no grand bargain, let them take us over the cliff and deal with it”

I have a strong suspicion that it’s not a cliff…it’s more like the edge of a curb. But if they don’t do anything about it in time…we’ll find out.

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
8:54 am

The producers lost

Oh, do tell–just what, of tangible value, does a guy like Romney actually “produce?”

Citizen of the World

November 9th, 2012
8:54 am

David French says that conservatives can’t continue to talk only to one another, but you know, you can’t talk to others unless you’re willing to listen, too.

But then, that’s not likely to happen, since all their media minions continually warn their viewers and listens against the evil of the mainstream/elite/liberal media to the point that anything they hear from the “other side” is immediately suspect.

There is no trust, therefore there is no room for dialogue, just as there is no room for compromise as far as conservatives are concerned.

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
8:55 am

rc – “the moochers looters and parasites. Won. The producers lost
Just that simple.”

What time does your flight leave?

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
8:56 am

What does Sheldon Effing Adelson “produce”?

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:56 am

“Did the auto bailout work?”

yes.

this has been another simple answer to simple questions.

to expand on it – you guys seem to think that the bailout ONLY affected the automaker, itself. There are HUNDREDS of companies around the US that supply parts to those businesses – so, by saving the automakers and NOT forcing them to go into bankruptcy (which – unlike supply-side economics – actually DOES roll downhill), we saved thousands of additional jobs around the country.

no need to thank me. it’s all part of the service.

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
8:56 am

It appears that America’s right wing reactionaries – those favoring extreme conservatism or rightism in politics and opposed to political or social change – are going to require at least a couple of more electoral beat downs, like the one this week, before they change their intransigent and irrational ways.

Compromise is American.

Statesmanship is American.

Standing up for the little guy is American.

Try it, you’ll like it!

Paul

November 9th, 2012
8:57 am

I’m thinking a case can be made that top-tier (and others, judging by remarks here) Republicans really do hate competition.

Else why would they hear Pres Obama speak of a level playing field and giving everyone a fair shot and restate it as ‘he wants to guarantee outcomes’?

Why do they fight so desperately to retain a system that has been shown over the decades to stifle upward mobility, skews wealth accumulation towards a small segment and leaves the majority in a flat situation?

Do they really, really think maybe they aren’t all that competent, all that brilliant, and if everyone was dealt the same hand of cards out of a nonrigged deck that there’d be a lot more competition and they’d lose out to those who never would have been able to enter into the competitive ring before?

Yeah, I’m beginning to think a lot of conservative, free market, “get government off my back and let us rig the system for ourselves’ types really do hate competition.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
8:57 am

RONALD

Yes, what Deal is doing to the state is a shame…but that’s his solution to balancing budget and keeping us afloat…I’m glad we have balanced budget amendment..this is prime reason we have such gridlock at federal level because there is no incentive to use balls to make the tough decisions..

Traditional stuff really..DEMS want to continue to expand voter base via scare tactics and commitment to entitlements the voter base…GOP wants to please its voter base via smaller government and protection of big money…nothing new…

If we want cut’s from elsewhere, need DEM in governors seat…not sure how the budget will be balanced…what will need to get cut….that offsets the unfavorable cuts above…someone will always be unhappy..

Welcome to the Occupation

November 9th, 2012
8:57 am

It’s the crowning article of faith among the liberal class, of which Jay is a prime representative, to separate out the “economic” from the “political”, to forcibly wrench them out of their proper perspective as part of a dynamic whole, and to view them as being fundamentally separate. And from that flow so many of the limitations both in the strategic analysis of our political economy and in the properly political analysis.

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
8:57 am

Just that simple.

So says the simpleton…

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
8:58 am

Obama won, now what….”All you libs better not be posting on your employers time.”

No worries, I retired in 2008 after 20 years in finance. Got plenty of time and money. Thanks for the conern.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
8:58 am

“What time does your flight leave?”

I’ll help ya pack!!

Georgia

November 9th, 2012
8:58 am

Conservatives’ last response to an Obama administration was the Tea Party. This time their bubble burst, and the denial, anger, despair, bargaining, and acceptance are still playing out. (5 stages of grief). What poison mushroom will pop up in the wash of the Obama mudslide this time?

Now, it’s fun to speculate what new strange creatures will emerge in the aftermath of this obvious act of political terror. Maybe The Mushroom Cloud party. No, the Smoking Gun party. No, the……..

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
8:59 am

you guys seem to think that the bailout ONLY affected the automaker, itself.

I don’t even believe they think that. I think they’re just lying, and can’t help themselves, because admitting the truth would cause their crap-ass house-of-cards ideology to collapse.

I mean, just take a look at their “producers” BS. Jeez.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
8:59 am

“Oh, do tell–just what, of tangible value, does a guy like Romney actually “produce?”

And aside from the Presidency, what has he lost?

Welcome to the Occupation

November 9th, 2012
8:59 am

What does Sheldon Effing Adelson “produce”?

Gambling addicts, maybe?

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")

November 9th, 2012
9:00 am

Rush is right – going to be tough to beat Santa Claus. Voting for the guy that put you in your bad situation still does not make any sense, though. The question is – how long will it take this glorious coalition – the dependent (largest group, and getting larger everyday, on purpose), the unions (on the way out, but still able to wreak a great deal of havoc), the pridefully sinful (small, but shrill) and other assorted complainers – to figure out they are some of the greatest rubes of all time?

Our “per person” debt is now about 50% larger than Greece. If we did not print the world’s reserve currency, we would be in much worse shape than that tiny nation. We can neither tax income enough nor confiscate wealth enough to pay the debt, much less unfunded pension liabilities, etc., etc., etc.

Proverbs 29:2 – lot of groaning going on out there these days.

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
9:00 am

guy

November 9th, 2012
8:49 am
As long as this nation becomes less educated(and it definitely is as anyone can see) and the debt keeps on rising,no party can stop the looming disaster. When you spend more than you take in,look out! We all need to do the math and face reality.Not racism,REALISM! Why not cut all the aid to nations who dislike us no matter what? Stop the wars and take care of each other!
__________________________________

exit polls show cutting foreign aid as being near the top of voters’ ways of cutting spending.

International Assistance takes up less than 1% of the US budget. And the wars haven’t cost us a dime. Our kids and future generations will be footing that bill.

Paul

November 9th, 2012
9:00 am

USinUK

Which was the point Alan Mulally, CEO of Ford, made in his testimony to Congress.

Which somehow never gets quoted by talk radio and conservative tv.

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
9:01 am

Doggone/GA – “And aside from the Presidency, what has he lost?”

About a billion dollars.

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
9:01 am

Gambling addicts, maybe?

Precisely.

willie lynch

November 9th, 2012
9:02 am

I don’t know what the solution is but the idea that white America will drive what is viewed as American culture going forward is one that white America will have to grapple with. Anyone that enters another country has to become familiar with and immersed in that culture in order to be able to move with fluidity. The problem with this is that the dominant culture usually doesn’t take time to know those coming in and relegates them to their own enclaves leaving the newcomer as the one learning anything of substance about the other.

Blacks, Latinos and women have been pushed into a coalition by the dominant player in the “American way” but each group still has a long way to go toward understanding issues that divide them and what can make their coalition stronger. It’s not that white males are being left out but it’s now time for them to understand that they have to take steps towards becoming more understanding of the other constituencies that make up this “pot” we call America. I would venture to say most Blacks and others coming into this country know more about the culture of white America than the other way around and nothing can be learned without an effort.

Fear can’t be the driver of attitudes forever. If America is to be great there has to be an equal partnership formed for the betterment of the country. This has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat it has everything to do with knowledge or the removal of ignorance.

I find this quote to be a guide for living personally: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Lord Help Us

November 9th, 2012
9:02 am

And, just like that…Benghazi all but disappears in the right-wing echo chamber.

To all of you cons that allowed Fox and others to gin up all your anger, ALL they cared about was the election…they did not and no not give one crap about the lives lost.

You got punked…again. Will you learn?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
9:03 am

Paul,

None of our elected officials want competition…most certainly not for re-election…I have no idea what a level playing field is….if it means upward mobility of those in the safety net, it is debateable if many are able to make the leap…I think using the safety nets beyond well…a safety net to help people get back on their feet, in many circumstances promotes the opposite..

IMO its not an easy term to define, especially from politicians creating false hope suggesting there is actually anything he can do, other than villifying those making over $250K to change anything..

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:03 am

“About a billion dollars”

Guess again. His supporters may have lost that, but HE didn’t. Heck, now he can continue to find ways to avoid paying even more tax with his offshore trusts and stuff. Without having to worry about the world looking over his shoulder. The way I see it, he’s GAINED a LOT.

alex

November 9th, 2012
9:03 am

@jamvet, glad you read it!

DebbieDoRight - The only thing wrong with capitalism is capitalists...

November 9th, 2012
9:04 am

Bro: If the product is useless to someone, wrapping it in silk and rose petals doesn’t alter it’s uselessness.

BINGO! That’s the problem right there! You can’t pretty up sh##t by putting a bow on it — its still sh##t and it still stinks like she##t.

You can’t go on National Television and say, “I’ll be glad to go and speak before the NAACP and I’ll ask them why they want food stamps instead of work”.

What you just said is a bunch of sh##t……….you just put a nice pretty bow on top of it.

================================

Byteme: So really, he thinks the Republican message has failed because of inadequate indoctrination starting from childhood. Think about that.

Yep – that’s why they’re so hot to trot to get their hands on public school board money, fire/not pay teachers, and degrade/defame the local school boards at every opportunity. The end game is to eventually do away with the US Dept. of Ed all together.

Then, we can go back to 6 year olds working in factories…………….

Penneymaker: I know it’s early on in what will likely be a multi-year proces, but yet another article focusing upon re-packaging and repositioning the current message and little to no discussion on the message itself.

They are doubling down on trickle down – they’ve come to believe the words of Goebbel, “The point of a political speech is to persuade people of what we think right. ………………..We do not want to be a movement of a few straw brains, but rather a movement that can conquer the broad masses. Propaganda should be popular, not intellectually pleasing. It is not the task of propaganda to discover intellectual truths”.

Adam @ 7:50 – You’re right! That was funny as hell!!!

LHU: I will believe it when I see it…

Word.

bookman parrot

November 9th, 2012
9:05 am

jay,
when the BHO policies start to want to take more money from my checkbook and redistribute; as a good lib supporter, you can pay for my portion, as it is what you want … and that would be very fair and compassionate of you. thank you…

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
9:05 am

Doggone/GA – “Guess again. His supporters may have lost that, but HE didn’t.”

You’re right, I should have said ” About a billion dollars for his supporters”. That definitlely makes him sound a lot better. Thank you for correcting me.

alex

November 9th, 2012
9:05 am

Adelson produces jobs…… (and yes, Ithink he is obnoxious like Soros…)

Lord Help Us

November 9th, 2012
9:06 am

‘you can pay for my portion,’

Taker…

DannyX

November 9th, 2012
9:08 am

“You got punked…again. Will you learn?”

This alternate reality Fox News has created was really on display when it was announced that Obama won Ohio which meant he was reelected. They had their unskewed polls, Romney was going to win in a landslide. Oh the look on the faces of those in the crowd, priceless.

Brad Steel

November 9th, 2012
9:08 am

Reading, writing and right-wing politics…. may be they can throw in some “intelli-gent’s design” too and we all know who that gent is… huh?

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
9:09 am

“What does Sheldon Effing Adelson “produce”?”

well, I would have liked to have seen the bout of IBS that he produced in Ol Turd Blossom yesterday … THAT would have been worth the price of admission!!

alex

November 9th, 2012
9:11 am

Jay ,look what have you done:do right and 6 year olds in factories,Goebbel , and “word”— at some point you’ve got to laugh though !

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
9:11 am

“Which was the point Alan Mulally, CEO of Ford, made in his testimony to Congress.

Which somehow never gets quoted by talk radio and conservative tv.”

when I first moved to Hartford, I did some temp work while I was looking for a FT job. One of the companies I worked for manufactured the wire mesh that goes around all the tubes and cable thingies in car engines (among other types of engines) –

a lot of great people worked there – and THAT was who I thought about when I thought about the bailout.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
9:11 am

WELCOME

In think Shelly does employ 8500 at his casinos, maybe more..but he does enable geometrically more gambling addicts..

I think the DEMS should thank him…I bet his ridiculous message to employees resulted in more DEM votes than otherwise had occurred..

Welcome to the Occupation

November 9th, 2012
9:11 am

Vast right wing: “Our “per person” debt is now about 50% larger than Greece. If we did not print the world’s reserve currency..”

You say that as though it’s a perfectly contingent fact, the fact that we’re the world’s reserve currency. And though it is contingent in a way — it could certainly change some day — the dollar’s role is as firmly entrenched as the reserve currency as ever with no serious challenger on the horizon. For that reason it’s a weird kind of puritanism to say “well we should ACT as though we didn’t have that crutch of being reserve currency”. We just are and therefore it’s perfectly sensible and rational for us to act accordingly. Thus we pay less in interest now as a % of GDP than it has been in about 60 yrs.

Besides, it’s not so much the fact that we’re the reserve currency as that Greece has NO currency of its own, being part of the EMU. This means its like someone put in a straight-jacket and thrown off a cliff. It has no tools at its disposal to avoid economic and political implosion, which is what we’re seeing.

By the way, the “per person” debt is irrelevant. Personal indebtedness is not the root of the problems in Greece.

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
9:12 am

Debbie, the NAACP thing. . is that an exact quote from somewhere?

Ivan

November 9th, 2012
9:12 am

“The admission about public schools is interesting, confirming my belief that Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse, and that those Democrats who supported its passage will one day come to rue that decision”

Considering where the state of Georgia ranks nation wide in education, pretty much anything is an improvement.

alex

November 9th, 2012
9:13 am

add: usinUK, IBS and Turd Blossom, you’ve given voice to……

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 9th, 2012
9:13 am

I have a strong suspicion that it’s not a cliff…it’s more like the edge of a curb. But if they don’t do anything about it in time…we’ll find out.

The “cliff” is likely a recession lasting about 6 quarters taking about 3-4% out of the economy. That’s the numbers I’m seeing from my research. Not such a cliff at all.

And the new “normal” will be one with a government surplus to spend on infrastructure AND lower interest rates (because the government won’t be pushing so many bonds into the marketplace).

Obama has to give up on “no tax increases for the middle class”, though. Just like Republicans have to give up on “no tax increases period”. Once we get past that hurdle, the horse trading can begin in earnest.

Nah, I don’t expect compromise to happen so easily.

Marc

November 9th, 2012
9:14 am

Jay you can stop lying Obama got re-elected. Successful bailout of the auto industry? GM is still on the hook for $26,000,000,000.00 and unless their stocks doubles in value will never pay us back, The Volt, Obama’s car of choice, has had manufacturing interrupted twice due to lack of demand. GMAC, now Ally Bank, is on the hook for even more.

Why aren’t you critiquing Obama and the Democrats? Are they always right? Reading your blog you would think so. You act as if it’s all the Republicans fault when Obama’s had 4 years 2 of them with control on the House and Senate.

JAY WHY AREN’T YOU TALKING ABOUT LIBYA? You have CNN and Fox doing it but NO ONE else.

independent thinker

November 9th, 2012
9:14 am

Here’s why the GOP lost big time:
JP -”"”"”"”"”"”Jay,
Why do you only write columns about the GOP and what’s wrong with them…instead of writing about what’s right with Dem party? Just like O’s campaign, run on the opponents weaknesses and not your own strengths…of course, he couldn’t run on his own record!”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”
Mr. JP- Democrats did run on their own record and strengths but people like you were so blinded by the lies, hypocrisy and Faux news and Limbaugh garbage you could not see trees from the forest.
1. Unlike the GOP the Dems presented a United front with former presidents, and all levels of politicians having a united message
2. Obama did have an impressive record with his handling of three wars , and a busted economy which he rescued from a depression and brought the economy back to where it was before he took office . No other president faced such a challenge- None.
3. His opponent was unqualified to be president with a myriad of conflicts of interest and questionable finacial dealings that would have been clearer if he did not hide his tax returns;
4. GOP made it clear that it had an outright hatred towards women. Just mention Sandra Fluke to them and they go beserk. To put the ultrasound governor in charge of the platform witha strict no abortion position said it all.
5.Democrats figured out how to overcome obscene spending by big corporate donors with people power on the ground.
6. Just listen to the hysterical and psychotic comments yesterday of Rove (”Democrats suppressed the vote”), O’ Reilly (the country is governed by people who want to give away free stuff) and Coulter (”we are past the tipping point”) and then listen to the real Romney on the 47% tape and you will see why the GOP is in serious trouble- they should have disavoed these morons every step of the way not embraced them and Bush’s failed Neocons.
7.Democrats care about veterans wounded by Bush’s insane wars – Republicans do not -never got a mention by Romney. If they did care, then let Queen Anne (”We gave you people all the information you need”) join Michelle and Jill Biden in visiting and assisting wounded veterans. She can and her husband start tomorrow. And while they are at it do a GOP fundraiser for Sandy victims instead of advising the 1% on how to hide money in the Caymans like W. did.
But of course lieke most Southerners it all comes down to racial politics —GOP since Nixon can’t live without that white southern voter

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
9:14 am

Adelson produces jobs…

…which are directed toward activities that produce nothing of tangible value. Nothing.

You know all the ire directed at “government” like it’s nothing but a necessary evil? That’s more or less my feeling about those service industries that essentially shuffle paper and money around. In Adleson’s case it’s especially grotesque, of course.

We need a skeleton crew of paper pushers and hucksters to sell stuff, is all. We need the masses mobilized to create actual stuff, whether it’s virtual (software) or real-world (hardware).

speaking of which, I gotta go do that now. Laterz.

Paul

November 9th, 2012
9:14 am

Stevie Ray

I agree about the politicians’ part. As individuals and as parties. No question there.

As far as the other – I can look right here in Texas and see it at a local level. We have some very, very, very well to do communities here. Property tax rates in some of those communities are much lower than in poor communities, but because of the value of the property, enough money pours in that school systems could splurge on all sorts of things (like, I kid you not, teak-lined whirlpool tubs in the football locker rooms). Then when the challenges began to equalize funding throughout the state (required by the state constitution) the howls of protest and fighting began. By the wealthy districts.

That’s a the lowest level. I think it’s the same kind of thing as one goes up the system. The funny thing is, all the special breaks and exemptions and deductions and all they got put in place over the years – they can make seemingly logical, nice sounding arguments why those perks are absolutely necessary to the very existence of the US of A.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:15 am

“Considering where the state of Georgia ranks nation wide in education, pretty much anything is an improvement”

Including properly funding the educational system…instead of CUTTING funding? You’re like a guy that cuts off his nose and then blames his face for losing it.

Welcome to the Occupation

November 9th, 2012
9:16 am

Stevie Ray: “I think the DEMS should thank him…I bet his ridiculous message to employees resulted in more DEM votes than otherwise had occurred..”

I think you’re right. The behavior of many of these tycoons and big bosses became quite a caricature. Although I’m not real sure that was much of a factor among wider swaths of the voting public outside of a relatively small group who follow politics closely.

Mr. Trump couldn’t have helped.

JF McNamara

November 9th, 2012
9:16 am

“the classic paradigm of the white, college-educated Republican voter. ”

Even in self reflection, they can’t get it right. This is simply not true. Republicans won in the least educated states. Their typical voter is less educated than those that vote Democrats.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
9:17 am

“The Kübler-Ross model, commonly known as The Five Stages of Grief, includes denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.”

This is what the GOP is going through, so they will work it out eventually…One would hope, for their sakes, that they get to “acceptance” before 2014, though…otherwise they might have to repeat the process…

H.E. Pennypacker

November 9th, 2012
9:18 am

Marc,

Why is Jay not critiquing Obama?

After the Super Bowl, do you read many articles on what is wrong with the team that won?

The GOP has lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential Elections, might be time to huddle up.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
9:18 am

alex – oh, we point and laugh … don’t you worry – the GOP has given us P-Lenty to point and laugh at in the last 96 hours … (starting with Turd Blossom’s meltdown on FOX)

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
9:19 am

Marc – “Why aren’t you critiquing Obama and the Democrats?”

Because they won.

Obama won, now what......

November 9th, 2012
9:20 am

Affirmative action needs to go away! Don’t use your color to get ahead!

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
9:21 am

…bush is out 8 YEARS, 8 years, move on…

THAT is the first ingredient for your now patented political recipe for failure.

Pretend that…

1) Neo-conservatism doesn’t stink on ice

2) You neocons have owned up to that fact

3) You are committed to changing your failed, fake conservative ways.

As long as you cling to this model, the Bush legacy remains toxic.

And the GOP’s chances of taking the White House are right up there with UGA winning a national football championship…

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:21 am

“Because they won”

I find it quite amusing how often someone of the “party of personal responsibility” comes here and wants Jay to do their job for them

DannyX

November 9th, 2012
9:26 am

“This is what the GOP is going through, so they will work it out eventually…One would hope, for their sakes, that they get to “acceptance” before 2014, though…otherwise they might have to repeat the process…”

The Kubler-Ross model does not apply here. Republicans have their own model for dealing with grief.

1..Denial
2..Anger
3..Depression
4..Anger
5..Denial
6..Anger

(They don’t negotiate.)

straitroad

November 9th, 2012
9:27 am

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
8:27 am

I disagree and haven’t up until this point in my life been able to understand where folks such as yourself are coming from. The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others. All of the energy spent trying to acquire more things from someone else just baffles me and I’ll probably never get how someone can live their life doing this without a proper sense of shame. I suppose it comes from upbringing or lack there of. There was a time in this country when most people had a sense of pride in being self sufficient and over time, with the help of political handouts, a large portion of the population has traded self sufficiency for dependency without a care for how it is provided or who has to be the provider.

RW-(the original)

November 9th, 2012
9:28 am

When you consistently use idiotic terminology like “statist”…

How about just the terminology “pull the lever?”? I’ve been voting for a lot longer than I’d like to think about and I’ve never pulled a lever to vote yet.

/and I don’t know where that freaking question mark goes so I covered all bases….

GT

November 9th, 2012
9:28 am

This is like dealing with a teenage child, the GOP is in such denial, and they miss the whole point of why they lost. They make up issues with themselves, just like they do against us, to shine a better light on their faults. They still think robbing the bank is a good idea and they think the way they communicate the bank robbery is not resonating well with America. If they could tune up their delivery a little they could still rob that bank.

Americans of 2012 do not like government interfering in their personal lives, but the right thinks that is on their selection of subject matter. They want state rights over federal government until you start on gay marriage then they start the shuffle. They don’t want federal government in their small businesses but they don’t want liquor served or sold on Sunday. We spend trillions on prisons and law enforcement, not to mention the violence in Mexico, for a lost war on drugs, so we can prevent individual freedom, yet they can’t see the moral obligation to feed, house and give healthcare to the poor. They bring their religions down by having them associated with their lesser characters, reinterpreting the word so it matches their politics, making religion look like a tool for the greedy.

They deny their mean spirit toward women and minority by parading tokens for public display insulting the matter even worse. They have this sense of humor that only tobacco stained mouths could repeat, with secret codes based on a foundation of bigotry. The results are underemployed and paid women, who have to go though a white male toll booth to get anything done including the own health issues. A Latino population that has the fear of being removed in the middle of the night by fire breathing right wing presidential candidates who in South Carolina and Tampa debates ,with red meat audiences booing and cheering like a lynch mob, gave graphic detail of what they thought of and would do with illegals. And now when their party looks like it just got hit by Katrina they want to think they were misunderstood.

straitroad

November 9th, 2012
9:29 am

“I find it quite amusing how often someone of the “party of personal responsibility” comes here and wants Jay to do their job for them”

Doggone, what is wrong with personal responsibility? Do you think it’s preferable to be irresponsible?

jconservative

November 9th, 2012
9:29 am

The president and the Democratic Senate want more revenue. They will get it starting 12/31/2012 when the Bush and Obama tax cuts expire. Nobody has to vote on any bill, nobody has to sign a bill. It is a done deal.

The president and the Republican House want spending cuts. They will get their spending cuts on 1/2/2013 when the sequestered spending cuts go into effect. $110 Billion the first year. And, like the revenue increase, nobody has to vote for anything or sign anything. It is a done deal.

And oh, Obamacare? It is written in stone and will go into effect in 2014 as planned. No one has to vote for anything or sign anything. It is a done deal.

If nothing passes either house of Congress both sides will have something to crow about to their bases. Everybody will be happy? Correct?

You do not like the above? How bad do you not like it? Do you hate it enough to compromise on “This” in order to get “That”?

Republicans have lost the popular vote for president 5 out of the last 6 elections. Do they realize they have a message problem?

Democrats lost 5 of 6 presidential popular votes between 1968 and 1988. They realized they had a problem and they moved toward the center and won 5 of the next 6. Is there a message here for Republicans?

Paul

November 9th, 2012
9:31 am

RW-(the original0

I wouldn’t advise using that as a pick-up line….

Mary Elizabeth

November 9th, 2012
9:31 am

I should also have stated (within my 8:44 am post), that ALEC has been, and is now, composed of, and funded by, billionaires such as the Kock Brothers, as well as wealthy corporate CEOs, who have worked stealthily with Republican legislators in Republican dominated states, to advance a financial agenda which favors the wealthy of this nation over interests of the middle and working classes. The middle class has lost ground for decades not simply because of global technological changes, but also because of the financial framework design and intent of these wealthy ideologues. I am grateful that an astute president will be working to realign this out-of-balance financial framework in our nation to make it become one that is more equitable for the working and middle classes.

(FYI, Georgia’s Republican legislative sponsors of HR 1162 which became Amendment One, Rep. Jan Jones and Rep. Edward Lindsey, are both members of ALEC. And, the video clip in support of Amendment One, of which I wrote on Jim Galloway’s blog yesterday, was underwritten by a group with Edward Lindsey as a leader, which was mentioned in the last few seconds of that video clip.)

http://www.alecexposed.com/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

Skip

November 9th, 2012
9:31 am

Cons just lost a cool billion, you really want to trust them with the checkbook?

Tundra Dude

November 9th, 2012
9:32 am

Why is Jay not critiquing Obama?

Usually it’s only plane crashes that make the news…..not all those that landed
safely at the airport …..

indigo

November 9th, 2012
9:32 am

Looks like most of the school kids who were busy here trashing Obama have gone back to the schoolroom. No doubt their Christian Academy instructors are giving them fresh indoctrination as to who to attack and what to say.

JP

November 9th, 2012
9:32 am

Ind Think
Thanks for your long and thoughtful response…but it is completely wrong. Really tired of O boo hoping that it is all Bush W’s fault. Reagan never did that…and he was left with a bigger mess by Carte

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:32 am

“The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others”

So are we to take it then that you disapprove of things like tax breaks to attract new business, and subsidies for farm goods, and tax breaks for things like pollution mitigation equipment, and oil company subsidies. That kind of supporting one group via the labor of the rest of us?

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
9:32 am

SfD — “Before I head into the actual topic at hand, I have to ask–who, exactly, reads and/or is influenced by the National Review? I know it’s about as traditional as conservatism gets (although really, compared to liberal journals-of-record like TNR, or the Nation it’s still immature — in more ways than one)”

I subscribed to it up until about 1998.

Mary Elizabeth

November 9th, 2012
9:32 am

Correction: Koch Brothers, correct spelling

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
9:33 am

Taxing the “rich” defined as amounts over $250 at 100% would run the goverment for 140 days or so…of course that is unrealisitic…but telling…

Aww geez… how many strawmen have died on that funeral pyre???? You cannot expect a rational discussion when you start of with such an irrational and obviously unfactual statement. Nobody’s made the argument to tax anybody at 100%, so to suggest that as an idea is male bovine fecal matter.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:33 am

“Doggone, what is wrong with personal responsibility”

Reading comprehension fails you today I see.

JamVet

November 9th, 2012
9:33 am

All of the energy spent trying to acquire more things from someone else just baffles me…

No it doesn’t.

You Reaganbots have selective outrage.

The wealthiest, the most powerful and the less deserving getting the biggest handouts, bailouts, subsidies, give aways and tax dodges/shelters does not bother you one iota.

Thus we have the current model – trickle down poverty and a de facto and de jure American plutocracy.

But you know this.

Gotta go and do my part to keep that 1% comfy!

Later, peeps!

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 9th, 2012
9:34 am

Yes, it is a trojan horse.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 9th, 2012
9:35 am

All of the energy spent trying to acquire more things from someone else just baffles me

Ok, why do you go to work every day if it’s not to accumulate?

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
9:35 am

Paul: Yeah, I’m beginning to think a lot of conservative, free market, “get government off my back and let us rig the system for ourselves’ types really do hate competition.

I could have told you that a long time ago. :)

RW-(the original)

November 9th, 2012
9:36 am

I wouldn’t advise using that as a pick-up line….

Paul,

I realize it’s a curse, but when one is as witty, charming, handsome and irresistible as I am no pick up lines are required. :-)

straitroad

November 9th, 2012
9:39 am

Doggone/GA,

I think a simple flat tax with zero deductions an zero tax breaks would be better but no, I don’t generally disapprove of tax breaks that are incentives for business models that are sound and don’t favor one group over another. I am referring to direct welfare payments to able bodied people.

skipper

November 9th, 2012
9:40 am

The hard-right zealotry that has overtaken the Repubs has cost them. As bad as it hurts to say this, even the far-left wacks of the Dems will somewhat compromise…..the far right has approached the lunatic-fringe, and it cost them. That stupid SOB who made the rape/pregnancy/God intended comments is what is now representing the far right. Like a guy I work with says, “That ain’t good!” I am a true independent who leans moderate-conservative. However, I must admit that the far-right zealotry (or perceived over-zealotry) has just cost them an election. And truthfully, I think that is too bad. I think Romney would have done a good job. The wacks in his party cost him……gotta mend bridges now.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
9:41 am

straitroad — “I disagree and haven’t up until this point in my life been able to understand where folks such as yourself are coming from. The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others.”

WTF do you think a church is?

The minister supports himself “via the labor of others.” What does the minister produce? Why does he not labor? And why aren’t you complaining about *that* kind of taking?

USA Patriot

November 9th, 2012
9:42 am

JB writes – “The successful government bailout of the auto industry, alleviating economic security for a million or more workers, helped the Obama ticket immensely among white voters in states such as Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.” The government did not bail out the “auto industry”, they bailed out GM (and screwed the bond & stock holders while giving most of the company to the unions), and they bailed out Chrysler (which was promptly bought by an Italian company, Fiat). Ford Motor Company didn’t get one cent from the government and is surviving on their own.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:42 am

“I am referring to direct welfare payments to able bodied people”

You would prefer to see them begging in the streets maybe? If not, then what is you alternative when businesses AREN’T HIRING?

It all, and always, comes down to this: government will step in when the PRIVATE SECTOR FAILS TO STEP UP.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
9:42 am

We need a skeleton crew of paper pushers and hucksters to sell stuff, is all. We need the masses mobilized to create actual stuff, whether it’s virtual (software) or real-world (hardware).

^^^^This!!!!!

straitroad

November 9th, 2012
9:42 am

“Reading comprehension fails you today I see.”

Doggone, it would be nice to have a conversation free of these kind of remarks. It was just a simple question.

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
9:43 am

The majority of people now have been led to believe that this country runs on auto pilot……that the government has a big deep well of unending money….and if you don’t have as much as your neighbor, you are a victim. Someone (just don’t call me names and say I’m wrong) prove me wrong.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
9:43 am

Mary Elizabeth

November 9th, 2012
9:32 am

While your spelling may have been wrong, I deemed it quite apt.

mystery person is

November 9th, 2012
9:43 am

Obama won, now what…… is really USMC

Rightwing Troll

November 9th, 2012
9:44 am

One of the grand ironies (and they are legion) here is the fact that while they consistently and loudly deride “statists”, the state is the first place wingnuts turn to when they seek to remedy their own imaginary injustice… charter schools for instance, or transvaginal probes…

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:44 am

“Ford Motor Company didn’t get one cent from the government and is surviving on their own.”

AND Ford Motor Co fought HARD FOR those bailouts. They knew how much it would hurt them if the other companies went belly up.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
9:45 am

RW @ 9:28

The question mark goes inside the quotation marks. :)

Georgia

November 9th, 2012
9:46 am

Well, the Right is certainly angry. Mrs. Imus had an on-air fit yesterday. I understand totally. Imagine being married to a shriveled and wrinkled hemmorhoid like Don Imus. Now Mrs. Imus was a very beautiful young woman not long ago, but she has gone to seed. Couples, like people and dogs, tend to resemble one another after a while. Mrs Imus is out of control too. Just what IS the half-life of an F bomb on the air? Oh, did I mention the Right is angry?

The entire right has become unhinged. Their bargaining may still be playing out, and evolve into something really nasty. They may start trying to bribe the left with charitable donations, beads, or even legislation in return for the state of Wyoming or the Dakotas. The KKK has long wanted a country of their own. Perhaps the Right and the KKK can achieve their independence. Isn’t the old nuclear testing grounds out west still available? What’s the half-life of an H bomb? Oh, did I mention the Right is angry!

Mama Says

November 9th, 2012
9:46 am

Taxpayer says

“You’re welcome. And contrary to popular Republican opinion, taxes do pay the government bills, not tax cuts”

That is the entire problem with the democrats way of thinking. Rather than applying common logic to the equation they apply illogical thinking and call it good math.

Lets see, budgets in normal instances act like this; income 50,000, expenses 60,000= reduce spending so you can balance your budget and live within your abilities or seek more income. Those who face this in everday life may very well have to work 2 or even 3 jobs to pay that debt down (incresing income) BUT they never say to themselves ‘lets work 2-3 jobs to balance the budget and while i do it lets increase sepnding to $70,000. Its an oximoron to apply the I cant afford to live so lets spend more- logic democrats prescribe too. I suspect that 90% of individual democrats do not live that way. Why then do you insist that the government function that way ?

My answer ? you do because its not a financial matter that you have to face each day. Very different from picking which bill you can pay each month or running up one card to pay the other in order to keep the lights on (i have been there and it aint fun). I escaped that hole by living under a log. not going out, not wasting money on beer and pizza and using that money to pay what I owed.
It has taken me about 7 years to pay $30,000 in debt off and I could not have done it by going on a spending spree.

Uncle Sam is at home trying to figure out how to buy milk for supper tonight while the dems are out at Houston’s eating steak. All while they piss and moan about how the rich white guys act. They then order a nightcap and slowly make thier way to valet who will bring the cadi around so they can drive to the “nice side of town” and retire to the comfort of their 6 bedroom residence with nice views of the ground scape which highlites the pool waterfall.

The rich republicans are doing the same but we aint trying to act like are the savior as we do it.

and buy the way before i get hit with tax breaks for the rich or high defense spending, I support cutting the defense, it is the right thing to do. I support using that money for real infrastructure improvements but dont preach to me about taxes when the rich pay 70% of them to begin with and stop calling me a racist when every article written about republicans starts out in some way talking about the old white guy party. You dems talk more about race gender and age more than anyone.

The only race and gender that it is acceptable today to openly say derogetory things about are white males. And you couldnt care less if you group them together whit one broad stroke of good old fashion racial bias. You denegrate every white conservative with your general statements. Even when 51% of all whites voted for Obama the first time you still generally use the term white when describing the reasons people oppose Obama. Tell me what color are the 10% of the African Americans that voted against him ? What color are the 25 % of hispanics who did not vote for him ?

General terms and blanketed statements is exactly what a lot you you dems live by. Tell you what since you insist that cons look in the mirror and change why dont you look in the mirror and see who is calling people racist ? My beat is that at least half of you are white–you have no clue that you are helping to make your own lives more difficult, the black person–the real victim of racisim only sees that you are white, and because you insist on telling him that all whites are racist he tends to be suspect of us all. So stop pointing your finger at me as if you are saying ‘no it was him’

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:46 am

“It was just a simple question”

It was a loaded question. Go back and read again what I said and see if you can comprehend that I was CRITICIZING those who preach personal responsiblity but DONT PRACTICE IT.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
9:47 am

USA Patriot — “The government did not bail out the “auto industry”, they bailed out GM (and screwed the bond & stock holders while giving most of the company to the unions)”

Tell me — how do you think the GM stock/bond holders would have made out in a liquidation?

And tell me — honestly — that you wouldn’t have blamed Obama for the loss of auto industry jobs, as well as the jobs lost in supply-chain businesses that fed the carmakers’ factories.

straitroad

November 9th, 2012
9:47 am

“You would prefer to see them begging in the streets maybe? If not, then what is you alternative when businesses AREN’T HIRING?”

No, I wouldn’t prefer to see anyone begging in the streets and I don’t personally know anyone who wants to see people begging in the streets. You and I will just have to disagree on this. We have two entirely different perspectives on life. Have a good day.

mystery person is

November 9th, 2012
9:48 am

I wonder how Billy Graham is taking the lost? Did God send him another revelation?

Rightwing Troll

November 9th, 2012
9:49 am

“The government did not bail out the “auto industry”, they bailed out GM (and screwed the bond & stock holders while giving most of the company to the unions),”

Two obvious points:

Had GM and/or Chrysler gone under, the effect would’ve rippled outward and been truly catastrophic. The result would’ve touched many industries and put MILLIONS more out of work than W’s economy did. secondly where was all the wingnut angst when the institutions that colluded with W to decimate our economy were deemed too big to fail and thusly bailed out shirking the stockholders, while at the same time rewarding the people who drove them into the ditch with golden parachutes?

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
9:49 am

Mama Says — “General terms and blanketed statements is exactly what a lot you you dems live by.”

The irony meter is flashing red now. :roll:

RW-(the original)

November 9th, 2012
9:49 am

The question mark goes inside the quotation marks

Brosephus,

Are you trying to conjure up OREP? I always thought it went inside, but then I was told that if you were quoting a quote it went outside because the quote wasn’t a part of your own wording in the sentence structure or some such hooey. :-)

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 9th, 2012
9:49 am

Obama’s win was bigger than John Kennedy’s in 1960 (303 electoral votes, popular vote margin of 112,827), bigger than Richard Nixon’s in 1968 (301 electoral votes, popular vote plurlaity of 512,000), bigger than Jimmy Carter’s in 1976 (297 electoral votes, popular vote margin of 1,683,247), bigger than George W. Bush’s in 2000 (271 electoral votes and a popular vote loss of 543,816).

http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/obama-bigger-win-kennedy-nixon-carter-or-bush

How you like them apples?

And Florida isn’t even done counting yet…..

Rightwing Troll

November 9th, 2012
9:50 am

“I wonder how Billy Graham is taking the lost? Did God send him another revelation?”

Or another hooker?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
9:50 am

BRO

Re-read the post…closer, compare that to your impetuous comments and get back to me..how you read that and insinuate I’m suggesting anyone is proposing any such thing is quite a weak retort…

Maybe you can answer my question there bovine rectal man:-) How long can we sustain our spending of 30% over what we collect? Point here is that tax increases are very difficult to undo, whereas cuts may never come to fruition..

And yes, those amounts over $250k taxed at 100% equates to $1.4 trillion…google it yourself..

AmericaShrugged

November 9th, 2012
9:50 am

Of course w’re economically insecure. We’ve been spending like drunken sailors and everyone knows that can’t continue but nothing has been done about it so far. We’re hitting the cliff because the parties couldn’t compromise and start putting the recommendations of the bi-partisan committee in place. It’s a fairly simple plan of reducing spending and increasing tax revenue by lowering rates on regular income while eliminating a lot of deuctions and credits and taxing capital gains and dividends as regular income. It’s a good plan, pretty fair for everyone.
The bad news is congress won’t come close to embracing a lot of the recommendations. And the committee projected that if all the recommeendations were implemented, a year or two ago, we still wouldn’t balance the budget until 2035!

clem

November 9th, 2012
9:50 am

after reading some of the right wing garbage on kyle’s site, it really amazes me that repubs, old white males who have disproportionate amount of dollars, still think they rule the roost.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:50 am

“No, I wouldn’t prefer to see anyone begging in the streets and I don’t personally know anyone who wants to see people begging in the streets”

and yet, when asked, you offer NO ALTERNATIVE. You don’t want to see able bodied people getting money from the government. Ok, WHAT’S THE ALTERNATIVE WHEN BUSINESSES AREN’T HIRING?

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
9:51 am

Jay – I bet you $5.00 that YOU don’t want the Dems to compromise. PARTY LOYALISTS choosing their party over their country have created this disaster. I am sick of PARTY LOYALISTS.

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
9:51 am

Joe -

WTF do you think a church is?

The minister supports himself “via the labor of others.” What does the minister produce? Why does he not labor? And why aren’t you complaining about *that* kind of taking?
________________________________________

I would imagine he’s not arguing about that because people get to choose whether they support the minister. If I don’t want to put money in the collection plate, I don’t have to.

AmericaShrugged

November 9th, 2012
9:52 am

clem – That’s because they do. They still control most of the wealth and Republicans still hold the majority of important elected positions.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
9:52 am

REDCOAT,

You seem to be rather right leaning in your posts, so I am compelled to ask you why you chose as your Nom de Blog, “Redcoat”? That word is almost universal in identifying Great Britain who, at its heart, is a socialist monarchy. I’m just curious.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 9th, 2012
9:52 am

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:52 am

“I wonder how Billy Graham is taking the lost?”

I wonder if he’ll put Mormons back on the cult list?

Mary Elizabeth

November 9th, 2012
9:53 am

Corbin Sharpe, 9:43 am

:-)

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
9:54 am

Has Obama applied for the US to join the EU yet?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 9th, 2012
9:54 am

Looks like Jay can pick up a quick $5, although I suspect that AJC rules may hinder that…. Morality really should step up and offer $5k to Jay’s favority charity. :D

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:54 am

“Jay – I bet you $5.00 that YOU don’t want the Dems to compromise”

I’m not Jay, but I can confidently predict you would lose that $5

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
9:55 am

““I disagree and haven’t up until this point in my life been able to understand where folks such as yourself are coming from. The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others.””

OF the people
BY the people
FOR the people

Rightwing Troll

November 9th, 2012
9:55 am

“after reading some of the right wing garbage on kyle’s site, it really amazes me that repubs, old white males who have disproportionate amount of dollars, still think they rule the roost.”

And most every single one is a taker and a moocher by thier very own definitions… like I sad the irony here, it is legion…

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
9:55 am

“What is the alternative when businesses aren’t hiring/” Obama could try to create an environment where the private sector would have more confidence and trust in him – but he hasn’t. Instead he vilifies them as the hated 1%. Some one needs to form Obama that he is a member of the hated 1% himself. Create an environment – don’t vilify.

mystery person is

November 9th, 2012
9:55 am

I wonder if he’ll put Mormons back on the cult list?

_____

how many fund$ are involved?

GT

November 9th, 2012
9:55 am

Rightwing Troll I am wondering if the Mormon Church is now back on Billy’s cult list.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 9th, 2012
9:55 am

Time for the Robin Hood tax on Wall Street speculation!

Get er done!

godless heathen

November 9th, 2012
9:55 am

Their typical voter is less educated than those that vote Democrats.

From CNN for 2006 election.

Dem/Rep No High School 64%/35%
High School Grad 55/44
College Grad 49/49
Post grad 58/41

Since the number of peeps in each group varies, not easy to see which party voter is more educated. Dems appear to be favored by HS drop-outs and pointy heads. Two groups with equal amounts of common sense.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
9:56 am

“I’m not Jay, but I can confidently predict you would lose that $5″

I second that.

Rightwing Troll

November 9th, 2012
9:56 am

I’d take that bet Morality?… except for the fact that wingnuts here have a history of welching on bets….

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 9th, 2012
9:56 am

I am wondering if the Mormon Church is now back on Billy’s cult list.

I bet Billy moved it to the top of the list – in bold red letters…

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
9:56 am

Is being unionized been made mandatory yet?

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
9:57 am

REDCOAT could have something to do with the UGA band. . .

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
9:57 am

“Obama could try to create an environment where the private sector would have more confidence and trust in him – but he hasn’t”

and how, within the confines of his power as President…do you think he can do that? What would YOUR suggestions be?

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
9:57 am

Mama Says

Question for you. How do you address that budget issue when you have the same set up that you described (income = $50k; budget = $60k), and you have a new addition or two added to the family each and every year? That budget will not remain $60k, and working 2-3 jobs will only be so effective to a point. At some point, you have to put someone else in the house to work to help out with that income.

That’s the problem with trying to compare a household income with the government. Our population is constantly on the increase. There are always different things we have to respond to whether it’s terrorist attacks or natural disasters. I understand the idea behind comparing the two, but I think it does a big disservice to people to try to make that leap. There are far too many variables between the two that keeps any valid comparison from being made.

In short, the solution to our problem is to reverse our actions from the past 30-40 years. We’ve been increasing spending and cutting taxes. Now, we need to increase taxes and cut spending. Nothing else is going to work, no matter how you try to contort or twist things.

GT

November 9th, 2012
9:57 am

What is needed is to block the Tea Party from being domestic terrorist this time around.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
9:57 am

AMERICASHRUGGED

Agreed..

The very, very simple solution is to cut 10% across the board (can someone convince me why this is not possible) and 20% out of defense…increase taxes very deliberately over several years….

If we commit to zero new spending projects for that time, simple arithimatic could be our saving grace…

Oscar

November 9th, 2012
9:57 am

RW-(the original)

November 9th, 2012
9:49 am

_____

If you are quoting someone who asked a question seems like it should go inside.
He asked “Did anyone see my car keys?”
Or:
Do you know if this quote is right “Good songs live forever”?

What do yout think, Bro.

Georgia

November 9th, 2012
9:58 am

Explain why Obama’s second term has been coming for decades: Seriously, the first card the Right dropped on the middle class was when America lost it’s free healthcare. In the old days, healthcare was provided by the employer. Then they started deducting small, insignificant amounts to help pay for it, then it was dropped entirely. The inflation of healthcare still astonishes everyone to this day. So what’s the problem? Why can’t healthcare stay close to the national average of inflation? Incompetetent doctors. Corrupt drug and insurance companies. It’s the total corrupt system of drug companies being allowed to pressure doctors, who don’t know how to diagnose cancer anyway, to diagnose a certain type of cancer that would allow a clinical trial for new profitable drugs. The entire system, from RX to Insurance to medical schools is corrupt and useless. If your cancer is cured, it’s only because an angel is on your shoulder. It’s not because the doctors figured exactly what your condition was and then prescribed the best medicine. That only happens in the movies.

The Right claims that the USA has the best healthcare in the world. I personally know just how big a total lie that is.

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
9:59 am

What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”? Better get that straight before having any conversations…….

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 9th, 2012
9:59 am

Morality, I urge you to not invest in companies that hire based on their “feelings.”

I suggest you invest in companies that hire based on demand for their products or services.

Rightwing Troll

November 9th, 2012
9:59 am

McConnell came out and announced today that it will be the senate Republican’s intentions to make Obama a 2 term president…

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
9:59 am

Flagboy — “I would imagine he’s not arguing about that because people get to choose whether they support the minister.”

Depending on the church, you may or may not have a choice.

“If I don’t want to put money in the collection plate, I don’t have to.”

And so it is with the USA. Don’t want to pay taxes, find another country. QED.

BTW, thanks for walking right into that.

Obama won, now what......

November 9th, 2012
10:00 am

Hey Clem!

Us old white guys that have the money still rule! Go to France if you want things to be more fair! Hell, save your travel cost, we will be like France soon enough!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 9th, 2012
10:00 am

And if Romney had won that narrow victory the headlines would have said much the same about Obama.

The liberal mantra continues:

“The government is the only thing we all belong to”

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 9th, 2012
10:00 am

What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”?

What is the Cons definition of “signing statement” or “executive order”?

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
10:00 am

“What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”?”

I can tell you what it ISN’T. It isn’t “my way or the highway”

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:01 am

GODLESS

Not sure who you are responding to re who is smarter but I bet my dad can beat up your dad:-)

Ridiculous and irrelevant argument…I’m surprised you even responded to the bait.

Oscar

November 9th, 2012
10:01 am

The GOP still has no clue.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 9th, 2012
10:03 am

Stevie, here’s a suggestion. Instead of making oversimplistic suggestions of across the board cuts and no new spending and telling others to convince you, you can invest your own time in doing the research on problems with across the board cuts and cutting with a hatchet rather than a scalpel. Take some personal responsibility and educate yourself rather than asking others to do all the work for you.

Oscar

November 9th, 2012
10:04 am

JB, speaker of the house said that a tax increase could not pass the house, so an increase is unacceptable.
The dems said any bill that does not include a tax increase is unacceptable.
Does not sound much like compromise to me.
Sounds more like they prefer going over the cliff rather than compromise.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:04 am

I will gladly donate $5.00 to Jay’s favorite charity right after Obama and the Dems compromise with the Repubs to create a budget that both can agree on. It hasn’t happened the last four years. Hairy Weed said publicly before the election that he would not compromise or cooperate with the Repubs if they were fortunate enough to win the Prez. That attitude of PARTY LOYALTY over LOYALTY TO THE USA has made Congress very ineffective. We have a do nothing grid lock in D.C. TERM LIMITS.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
10:04 am

“The liberal mantra continues:

“The government is the only thing we all belong to””

who knew that Scout upped and moved to Colorado in the last few days … cuz, buddy, you’re HIIIIIIIIIIIGHer than a paper kite.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 9th, 2012
10:04 am

How cute… Senior Digits still wants to believe that somehow his side ekked out some sort of victory. Tell us more about that Bush mandate Senior…… :lol:

clem

November 9th, 2012
10:05 am

atlas, it may be true now but they lost given the roi……only reason they did win the house is gerrymandering…. but next decade may really be startling unless gop changes its ways

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
10:05 am

How about just the terminology “pull the lever?”? I’ve been voting for a lot longer than I’d like to think about and I’ve never pulled a lever to vote yet.

Hi, RW. I’ve pulled the lever quite a few times, but that was on an old-fashioned voting machine common in the Northeast, only recently phased out. That’s where the expression comes from.

More info here:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/10/a-love-affair-with-lever-voting-machines/

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:06 am

Joe – I knew the “you’re free to leave whenever you like” would be the response. By the same token, you could have left the US when Bush was in office. . you were free to leave. you didn’t from what I gather.

I normally think that whole line of debate is juvenile, so I avoid it.

John Konop

November 9th, 2012
10:06 am

I keep hearing about how it was all about turn out from the GOP talking heads that refused to take a realistic view of the polls. The numbers are clear, minority votes are growing and obviously older white vote shrinks every presidential cycle. It is simple math! The GOP can either deal with the issue, or stay in denial.

The biggest issue the GOP faces is the base being driven by an echo chamber on TV and radio. The agenda for TV and radio is viewership not the country and or party. The GOP can keep playing to the echo chamber in the house via Jerry mandering. This will work for awhile, but eventually it is dying game with their views on social issues and immigration.

The GOP could also help reform issues within the budget, healthcare, immigration…..with reforms within the framework. If they do that the party would become stronger and not become a regional based party over time.

If you disagree with me this was from Forbes magazine.

……….Why Romney Lost And Republicans Keep Losing……..

………Each speech, Republican candidates often competed for most religious, most “family values”, most pro-life. The definition of conservative has shifted from running a responsible government with a balanced budget to how many days a week you punched your attendance ticket at church. It borders on zealotry. If your credentials on abortion don’t go back at least five generations, you might be branded an apostate………….

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2012/11/09/why-romney-lost-and-republicans-keep-losing/

Dirty Dawg

November 9th, 2012
10:06 am

What I think I’m getting from the suggested new Republican strategy is that they need a better, more realistic looking, set of sheep’s clothing…the damned wolves.

clem

November 9th, 2012
10:06 am

more tax cuts for wealthy will not spur the economy. anyone saying different prove it with real math

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
10:07 am

What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”?

As Finn said, “What is the Cons definition of “signing statement” or “executive order”?”

…and I might add, ” what is the definition of signing pledges to a person instead of to a nation?”

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 9th, 2012
10:07 am

“With conservatives across the country concerned about a rumored Republican cave-in in Washington, D.C. over tax policy, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is speaking out. Read his lips: no tax hikes.”

The battle will continue ………………..

bookman parrot

November 9th, 2012
10:07 am

To Joe Hussein Mama,

You forgot one, just be a taker, probably you are and you don’t have to find another country.
You just walked into that one…

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:08 am

So if all the “cons” or otherwise folks who don’t buy the LIB agenda hook, line and sinker..left this blog, what good would this forum be? What can you learn from a big circle jerk except after awhile, you run out of gas and need a nap?

I guess we’d be better off if that old-fart GOP would just evaporate so LIBS could have run at the roost…what would likely be the financial outcome of that?

“Drinks for all my friends..!

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
10:08 am

The only limitations on government now is the restraints of it’s citizens from asking more from it ……..

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
10:09 am

“Does not sound much like compromise to me”

By either side. But D’s are willing to entertain cutting spending if there is also a revenue increase. R’s will not entertain cutting if there is a tax increase. Which side sounds CLOSER to compromise to you?

Cosby

November 9th, 2012
10:09 am

another hate the GOP blog as well as class warfare..Perhaps we should divide up the States so the hispanics, blacks, Asian, women, white males can each have their own turf..then perhaps we can all live in peace. My problem is no one is addressing the destructive issues at hand. The USA has steadily dropped in the world in terms if investment opportunity, manufacturing, standard of living etc..all of which we were the undisputed #1 for years. We are fast becoming a third world country. All you have to do is look as the UN ( that third world organization) was questioning our voting process..The USA is suffering under a financial mess that will take generations to dig out from under while Harry and Boehner put on their cute startched shirts and use their ego to say I am the bully. The Islamic / Muslim hatred of the west continues to grow un checked. Iran is coming close to the nuke and what do we have in the news..class warefare, the government should give to this class and that class, our school system is in total destruction, no one seems close to taking care of themselves, but lets blog, use the media for class war fare…yep makes since to me…Really, is it not time that truth be told in lieu of one line blogs or derated blogs toward one party, ethnic group or whatever…if we do not get the finances in order, the manufacturing sector back in order, the job market growing, we will all be in the soup line but there will be no soup!

How stupid is The USA???

RW-(the original)

November 9th, 2012
10:10 am

Hi, RW. I’ve pulled the lever quite a few times, but that was on an old-fashioned voting machine common in the Northeast,

My grandparents used to tell me about those (and they were born in the 1800’s) How old did you say you were? :-)

St Simons - he-ne-ha

November 9th, 2012
10:10 am

In my literary development, I think this old accountant’s got
metaphors purty good.

lets move on to alliteration – Plethora of Panty hose Puppets
heheh

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:11 am

Stevie . . . perhaps the AJC could get a “Balanced Budget Blog”. We could post there.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
10:12 am

“I will gladly donate $5.00 to Jay’s favorite charity right after Obama and the Dems compromise with the Repubs to create a budget that both can agree on. It hasn’t happened the last four years”

Budgets don’t mean a damn thing. They’re a red herring to distract people like you. There has been no budget, right? Has the government stopped working? Has funding stopped flowing? Are government workers still getting paide?

Stop chasing red herrings and concentrate on the things that MATTER.

indigo

November 9th, 2012
10:12 am

I’d bet the “prophet of God” of the Mormon Church assured Romney a win.

Will Romney ask what went wrong?

Will a furious Romney inform the “prophet” he’ll no longer get any money from the Romney family?

I would love to see that.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:12 am

Are you trying to conjure up OREP?

:shock: :shock:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you’re right about that though.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
10:12 am

“I will gladly donate $5.00 to Jay’s favorite charity right after Obama and the Dems compromise with the Repubs to create a budget that both can agree on. It hasn’t happened the last four years”

Budgets don’t mean a damn thing. They’re a red herring to distract people like you. There has been no budget, right? Has the government stopped working? Has funding stopped flowing? Are government workers still getting paide?

Stop chasing red herrings and concentrate on the things that MATTER.

Paul

November 9th, 2012
10:12 am

Brosephus

“I could have told you that a long time ago.”

Instead you let me flounder…. I thought you libs were supposed to spoon-feed the rest of us?!!?

RW-(the original)

“I realize it’s a curse, but when one is as witty, charming, handsome and irresistible as I am no pick up lines are required”

It’s good to have you back here, friend.

godless heathen

November 9th, 2012
10:12 am

Ridiculous and irrelevant argument…I’m surprised you even responded to the bait.

Oft stated here that Dems are more educated that Reps. I was curious if this was true or just another Democratic Urban Legend like Red States receive more Fed$ than Blue States and Newt Gingrich served divorce papers on his dying wife.

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:12 am

Doggone, I might be wrong here, but didn’t the Republicans put something on the table a few years ago about increasing taxes if there was a dollar for dollar spending cut?

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
10:13 am

“What I think I’m getting from the suggested new Republican strategy is that they need a better, more realistic looking, set of sheep’s clothing…the damned wolves”

Agreed!

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:13 am

Flagboy — “Joe – I knew the “you’re free to leave whenever you like” would be the response. By the same token, you could have left the US when Bush was in office. . you were free to leave. you didn’t from what I gather.”

Why would I? I wasn’t employing the ‘ZOMG EITHER DEMS WIN OR I WALK’ rhetoric. It seems that once again, you’re leaping to a *lot* of conclusions about me — and once again, they’re wrong.

“I normally think that whole line of debate is juvenile, so I avoid it.”

Except for suggesting that I could have left during the Bush administration, you mean. :roll:

Look, my point was simple. There are “takers” that conservatives *support.* There are places and situations in which conservatives *encourage* the taker-producer model. Yet it never enters their collective consciousness that their argument is flawed.

The church example is the simplest and most egregious example thereof. And if your solution — just leave — is so practicable and utilitarian, then why not use it? Otherwise, *you* are the one who veered into the ‘juvenile’ line of debate, because you could have easily manned up and taken on the taker-maker dichotomy that conservatives *sometimes* like.

If you want to object to the ‘juvenile’ line of debate, fine. Simply don’t go there, pal.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:14 am

KEEP

Please save me the “educate yourself” attempted close..

So you can’t imagine that there is not at least 10% waste to everything the government spends? Open your eyes dude…it’s quite simple really..you make it difficult by picking which categories are, in your opinion, sacred cows…

Hatchet? 10%?

Butch Cassidy (I)

November 9th, 2012
10:14 am

USA – “Ford Motor Company didn’t get one cent from the government and is surviving on their own.”

Yes, but they did advocate the bailout for the other automakers in order to salvage the suppliers.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:15 am

B. Parrot — “You forgot one, just be a taker, probably you are”

Nope. Producer here.

“You just walked into that one…”

Afraid not. Remember, con, your imagination doesn’t reflect reality.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

November 9th, 2012
10:15 am

Well, I see where this Canada lawyer that helps people move to Canada told a reporter he gets hundreds of calls from rich people that say they want to move to Canada after a Democrat gets elected. But he says he can’t recall more than 3 or 4 cases where people really moved over the past 20 years. Well-off people got it good here in the U.S., with low taxes. They ain’t crazy enough to move to a country where they get taxed more and can’t make as much money.

So don’t pay no nevermind to these folks like Trump that talk about losing freedom and paying too much taxes. Trump knows there ain’t another country in the world that would allow him to go bankrupt 3 or 4 times and stick somebody else with his losses. The same goes for that fool that said he might need to call out the national guard if Obama got elected and the moran in Woodstock that said he was closing the gates to his cushy subdivision. People with any sense know it’s Congress and not the President that make the laws and regulations. Ain’t nothing going to happen to change much in this country.

Have a good Friday everybody and if you want to blow off steam just threaten to move to Canada. But we all know you ain’t about to do that and you’re just like the braggard that would mess his pants if anybody really did carry thru with a threat. You got about three square yards of hat and not even a old milk cow to your name.

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
10:15 am

“Doggone, I might be wrong here, but didn’t the Republicans put something on the table a few years ago about increasing taxes if there was a dollar for dollar spending cut?”

Not that I remember, but this isn’t a few years ago either. What they might have done then is no indication of what they have done more recently.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:16 am

TROLL – you don’t need to call me names – I am not a Con – I am a fiscal conservative and did not vote for “W” or Obama because they are both fiscal liberals. Putting new mandates on businesses is not creating an atmosphere of trust.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:16 am

Cosby — “another hate the GOP blog as well as class warfare..Perhaps we should divide up the States so the hispanics, blacks, Asian, women, white males can each have their own turf..then perhaps we can all live in peace.”

Too late. The cons have already done that.

It’s called gerrymandering.

Jim

November 9th, 2012
10:17 am

Mr. Wooten:

In 2008 I supported Mike Hucabee. When Senator McCain was nominated, I thought I would sit out the presidential election because, although I greatly admire the brave warrior, I find him to be too wishy-washy on domestic issues. Everybody said no, you can’t do that because that helps the democrat.

In 2012 I supported Herman Cain. When Governor Romney was nominated, I thought I would sit out the presidential election but everybody said no, that would help the democrat. My problem with Governor Romney was that he was too wishy-washy on the issues.

In 2016 I WILL NOT VOTE FOR REPUBLICAN NOMINEE if the nominee is not a true, consistent conservative. I could care less about the republican party and will not fall for this again. They have tried this wishy-washy stuff two straight elections and that did not work. Nominate a true, consistent conservative and you have my vote. Don’t and I promise you I will still vote but will leave the presidential choice blank.

As a matter of fact, I would support the formation of a true Conservative Party during the next four years and let the wishy-washies have the republican party.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:17 am

GODLESS

Newt will go down as one of the biggest, arrogant, self serving baffoons in the history of baffoons…as your example confirms, he’s simply not a good man…it also says very little about that…woman he traded his wife in for that she would allow that outcome…

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
10:17 am

When most people ask the government for action, they pretty much don’t think anyone pays for it.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:17 am

Stevie Ray

The point I was attempting to make, which obviously went way, way over your head, is that nobody’s suggesting taxing anybody that much. Economic experts all pretty much agree that a combination of spending cuts and tax increases well be needed to address the debt and deficit issues. The Left has already said the solution requires BOTH tax increases and spending cuts. What other involved party has NOT came to that same solution?????

I’ve said it before that my solution would be to gradually bring back the 2000 rates phased in over time. That would mean that taxes would go up on us all. At the same time, the percentage of those who have no net fed income tax liability would go from almost half the population to about one-third.

All that talk about taxing the wealthy 100% is nothing but a smoke screen tactic to keep from actually discussing reality in my opinion. That’s why I have the same response anytime that talking point is brought up.

Oscar

November 9th, 2012
10:18 am

The election showed the majority of Americans are in favor of some government intervention in the economy, e.g. the auto bailout, a progressive tax system, e.g. higher taxes for the wealthy, an immigration policy that allows law abiding illegals a way to become citizens; and government spending for education and training.
Any party, for instance the GOP that does not believe in those concepts is not going to win any national elections.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 9th, 2012
10:18 am

As I heard earlier in the week:

It’s hard to beat Santa Claus vs. Mom & Dad making you do your chores.

Delights vs. Discipline !

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
10:19 am

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:16 am

Well put!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 9th, 2012
10:19 am

Oscar:

“The bigger the government the smaller the citizen”

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:19 am

Jim — “In 2016 I WILL NOT VOTE FOR REPUBLICAN NOMINEE if the nominee is not a true, consistent conservative. I could care less about the republican party and will not fall for this again. They have tried this wishy-washy stuff two straight elections and that did not work. Nominate a true, consistent conservative and you have my vote. Don’t and I promise you I will still vote but will leave the presidential choice blank.”

“As a matter of fact, I would support the formation of a true Conservative Party during the next four years and let the wishy-washies have the republican party.”

Sounds good. Please follow through on your threat.

St Simons - he-ne-ha

November 9th, 2012
10:20 am

Nooooo. No. Hell no. Don’t change a thing, cons.

This HAS to be in the Friday Night Music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DehrCHlFUTQ

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:21 am

Oscar @ 9:57

I think you have it right, but I’m not willing to face the wrath of OREP by answering with all certainty.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:21 am

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:11 am

I’d like to see a media outlet that is not simply towing a party line…I can’t think of any obvious or screened that arent’ led by the nose…an independent channel?

Ha, i’m hallcinating again..

Williebkind

November 9th, 2012
10:21 am

Stock market down again. It may drop to 3000. Yep, all those retirees depending of those stock investments over their life time will take another hit. Oil and coal costs will go up because we are now a green country. Yepper those conservatives sure gonna get it handed to them. After all they cant compromise because compromise means the conservatives give up their beliefs and values and accept lenin, marx, and stalin as the true heros. Of course mohammed may have a say or two.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

November 9th, 2012
10:21 am

St Simons – he-ne-ha

November 9th, 2012
10:20 am

:D

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 9th, 2012
10:22 am

“Rep. Ron Paul, whose maverick presidential bids shook the GOP, said in the wake of this week’s elections that the country has already veered over the fiscal cliff and he sees no chance of righting ship in a country where too many people are dependent on government.

“We’re so far gone. We’re over the cliff,” the Texas Republican told Bloomberg Television’s “In the Loop” program. “We cannot get enough people in Congress in the next 5-10 years who will do wise things.”

Georgia

November 9th, 2012
10:23 am

Kyle is merely writing what he is told to write. RIGHT. He’s not become unhinged. It’s not his fault that his job is to write Right, and Jay’s job is to write LEFT. Jay is no more original in his insight than Stephanie Miller. The AJC has hired two writers for entertainment purposes. One right, one left. Where do you think Jay gets his material? If Jay wrote what was in his heart then the political landscape would be totally different. But that’s not America. We’re number one, remember? Jay is no more capable of refusing the bribes (his salary) than any other American. It’s about the money.

And look at us. Listen to Rush Limbaugh. Listen to Bill Maher. Are you proud to be an American? Listen to some of the Senators on the Right or the Left. Are you proud to be an American?

Prediction for America trying to find itself through the electoral process: Pain…. and I’m proud to be an american, where at least I know I’m free…. are we free? really? Lets ask JayKyle, the two Magpies of Wisdom sitting on the fence of our two party system.

Hey. I just invented a new name: “Heckle and JayKyle” Who is Heckle though? Me? I’m Heckle? (I’m still banned from most of the blogs on the AJC, don’t know why I’m allowed here at all).

A new thread. Heckle and JayKyle. If you read Jay, you automatically know what’s over at Kyle, (spectral opposite). and vice versa,

But it’s comforting to know where the Romney victory bubble originated: Karl Rove. That was proved on Fox News when they announced Ohio, and Karl scrambled with parsing and spin worthy of Clinton.

So, then, the free gimme that all the world got from the Obama election: a PhD in political science. A major in lies. A minor in never tell the truth. never admit defeat. Never act like the other side actually made a point or won a state or did anything patriotic. That’s politics. That’s JayKyle’s whole raison d’etre, and why any political blog gets a big “oui oui” from me.

Stand back. I’m home schooling.

Peadawg

November 9th, 2012
10:24 am

“I will still vote but will leave the presidential choice blank”

Then STFU b/c you can’t complain.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:24 am

“In the old days companies provided health care for workers” . In the old days there was no welfare, no medicaid, no disability ,no social security, no business supported health care and no health care insurance. You either PAID for what you got yourself, got help from friends or from private charity.
The gub’ment wasn’t $16,000,000,000,000 + in debt and no one expected help from the gub’ment because they weren’t going to get any. And we weren’t approaching the fiscal cliff.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:25 am

Williebkind — “After all they cant compromise because compromise means the conservatives give up their beliefs and values and accept lenin, marx, and stalin as the true heros. Of course mohammed may have a say or two.”

:roll:

Willie, you’re an example of a con with whom it would be useless to even *try* to compromise. If you’re going to paint us all as communists and write us off like that, then you’ve got no complaint coming when we write people like *you* off as well.

Compromise starts with trusting the other side. If you haven’t got that in you, then why bother participating in the American political process in the first place? If winning at all costs is what you want, try pro wrestling.

Oscar

November 9th, 2012
10:25 am

The bigger the government the smaller the citizen”

_______

How does a progressive tax system, an immigration policy that allows a path for citizenship, training for workers so they can acquire and create private jobs, and aiding private companies that need short term help to survive equate to bigger government?

Doggone/GA

November 9th, 2012
10:26 am

You know, reading some of the stuff posted here by our conservative friends reminds me of an old descripotion of anarchists that I read somewhere: they know what they don’t want…they don’t know what they DO want.

stands for decibels

November 9th, 2012
10:27 am

My grandparents used to tell me about those (and they were born in the 1800’s) How old did you say you were?

[har. Old enough that it was something of a psychological bridge to cross when I cast my first vote in 2008 not just for a half-black Kenyan, but ... horrors ... a little YOUNGER than me! I'm falling behind! I'm not Preznit yet! Time's running out! but I digress.]

I only recently learned from friends in NJ that the old style voting machines–which used little levers to indicate your choice for candidate, and a BIG HONKIN’ lever, to open and close the curtain (and clear the choices for the next voter). They made a very distinctive mechanical noise, kind of like racking a Remington 870, and yeah, I was kind of let down when I came to GA and faced these effeminate, spindly little touch screens.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

November 9th, 2012
10:27 am

“What I think I’m getting from the suggested new Republican strategy is that they need a better, more realistic looking, set of sheep’s clothing”

really? what I’m getting is that they were entirely too moderate and that they need to double down on the hawt conservative action!!

godless heathen

November 9th, 2012
10:27 am

Stevie Ray: s your example confirms, he’s simply not a good man… My example was of a Democratic Urban Legend. def: A untruth, lie, fabrication, or prevarication often presented as fact on Bookman’s blog.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:28 am

BRO

What did I say that suggested to you that anyone is proposing 100% taxes..you understand the idea of perspective don’t you?

I can help you…taking my comments out of context and creating a discussion that is therefor irrelevant and misleading is beneath you…I thought..

We always agreed on a balanced approach to both concepts…

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:28 am

“With conservatives across the country concerned about a rumored Republican cave-in in Washington, D.C. over tax policy, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is speaking out. Read his lips: no tax hikes.”

The battle is lost. If the GOP’s tactic of obstruction continues, then the Dems will ultimately get a tax increase come Jan 1, 2013. The only thing the GOP can do to stop that is compromise, and we know they don’t like to compromise.

————————-

Paul @ 10:12

Well, since you’re from Texas, a conservative and boot lovin’ state, I figured you had your own closet full of bootstraps. :)

My bad on making assumptions though. I won’t let that happen again.

St Simons - he-ne-ha

November 9th, 2012
10:28 am

Hanniteh is trying to out-meltdown the other radio pig’s epic pill-fueled
meltdown.

Presto! – “Today I have ‘evolved’ on Immigration!”

Two problems there, whackadoodle #2 – ‘videotape’ and ‘transcripts’
heheheh

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:28 am

“Law abiding illegals”…….. no – you didn’t say that did you. OXYMORON. I know what you meant but illegals wouldn’t be illegal if they were law abiding would they?

Adam

November 9th, 2012
10:29 am

Hurricane Sandy was what God intended to happen, and women shut Todd Akin’s race down.

Williebkind

November 9th, 2012
10:30 am

“they know what they don’t want…they don’t know what they DO want.”

I assume locutions like the one above really makes liberals feel smart. Hey they admit how intelligent they are constantly.

Erwin's cat

November 9th, 2012
10:31 am

I didn’t realize the popular vote was such a landslide that the GOP should just not show up. As history has shown, the pendulum swings both ways.
Dems, the future of the GOP somewhat depends on your actions in the next 4 years. So while you are patting yourselves on the back (as you should) do not forget that power can be a temporary curse

Oscar

November 9th, 2012
10:31 am

Sons of Confederate Veterans

alex

November 9th, 2012
10:31 am

@GT, read your post, wonder if a “personal right’ includes health care… then you go on and , there it is, you can’t help yourself, RACE (white man toll), You are a bigot, plain and simple, you revel in it, it soothes your simple mind. It gives you perspective of black /white in a very grey world.Your bigotry allows you to function, without it you would have to weigh the possibilities. You are a bigot, plain and simple, no worse than a south Ga. Bubba and NO better than he…..

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:31 am

Joe. . . seriously. . .

“And so it is with the USA. Don’t want to pay taxes, find another country. QED.”

“Why would I? I wasn’t employing the ‘ZOMG EITHER DEMS WIN OR I WALK’ rhetoric. It seems that once again, you’re leaping to a *lot* of conclusions about me — and once again, they’re wrong.”

Man, I love talking/arguing/debating about things. Honestly. But you never stick with one argument, and worse, change what it was you were apparently intending to say.

the church isn’t a good example. I get to decide if i want to support a church or even attend one. I don’t get the same choice with government.

Williebkind

November 9th, 2012
10:32 am

“The battle is lost. If the GOP’s tactic of obstruction continues, then the Dems will ultimately get a tax increase come Jan 1, 2013. The only thing the GOP can do to stop that is compromise, and we know they don’t like to compromise.”

No compromise! You wanted tax increases, let them begin.

newkid

November 9th, 2012
10:34 am

Jay, I say again this apparent post-election fixation with picking at the GOP scab is likely missing a prime opportunity to help push the discourse on the regional and national public square to a more meaningful discussion of where the emerging demographics will take the nation. This GOP-centric fixation is counter-productive and needlessly distracting for the fickle among us. Here, why not take this late 2011 document as an inspiration for a series of thoughtful and productive blogs:
http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/10/pdf/progress_2050.pdf

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:34 am

“Morality” — ““Law abiding illegals”…….. no – you didn’t say that did you. OXYMORON. I know what you meant but illegals wouldn’t be illegal if they were law abiding would they?”

The *accurate* term, which has been in use since the 1960s, is ‘undocumented immigrant.’

And being in the US with immigration documents is not a crime, no matter how much you might like for it to be one. It’s a document offense, akin to driving without your license or registration.

If you don’t believe me, call up ICE yourself and ask them. Here you go:

http://www.ice.gov/exec/forms/hsi-tips/tips.asp

Oh, my. Notice that? The ICE only wants you to report *criminal* acts by undocumented immigrants — not just that you think those guys in front of the Home Depot are here without leave.

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:35 am

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…

November 9th, 2012
10:21 am
I’d like to see a media outlet that is not simply towing a party line…I can’t think of any obvious or screened that arent’ led by the nose…an independent channel?
______________________________

Then don’t watch Fox News. . . all the others are A-Ok.

. . . .

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
10:35 am

There are a lot of references as to the “Bush tax cuts that benefit the wealthy” but no one seems to be able to enumerate them. The Kool-Aid propaganda machine at work. When so many lower income and middle class people pay no taxes at all, how does that favor the rich? Another question – Why should dividend income be double taxed? Interest income isn’t double taxed.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:36 am

When Jimmy Carter was humiliated in land slide by Ronnie pundits and Repubs said the Dem Party was dead. Dems lost the House, the Senate and the popular and electoral vote – made this election look like a squeaker. Don’t get to smug – the Repubs or some other party will be back and some day the Dems will be pronounced dead. Voters have a tendency to get fed up with the far left and the far right and a correction takes place over time. Obama is not the center – he is LEFT of center and it would do him well to move to the center for the future of the Dem Party.

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
10:36 am

Oscar……..Private company becomes a government company when the government steps in. The company then can not fail even if it is failing. Government taxes more citizens to keep failed company afloat. Company management is not changed. Citizens become smaller. Government “officials” start picking winners and losers, not citizens.

godless heathen

November 9th, 2012
10:36 am

No compromise! You wanted tax increases, let them begin.

The electorate has spoken. “Thank you sir, may I have another.”

Tom Middleton

November 9th, 2012
10:37 am

So Jay, are we supposed to believe that the white-bread Right is somehow going to become whole grain? Do that and there goes their southern base forever and a day.

Sorry, but all this talk about the white-wing “evolving” into a party no longer in love with itself is just another of their just-for-show media displays; and to me, that makes it political.

The young coming along today know who is offering them an open door and who is not, and it’s not the Republican Party, especially when it runs someone like Romney, who will do and say anything to anyone for his financial and political gain.

How much easier is it for one of the young today, and even an old fart like me, to identify with a President Obama, who’s willing to find ways to help anyone trying but can’t quite make it on their own. There’s your Christian attitude, sir, and it’s the real deal. I mean, maybe the next person straight to hell can ask Ayn if she still thinks it’s wrong! :)

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:37 am

GODLESS

I’m still confused over your ratios i guess..

Dem/Rep No High School 64%/35%
High School Grad 55/44
College Grad 49/49
Post grad 58/41

Seems that every category is in favor of DEMS except a tie for undergrads…???

The argument is irrelevant yet what you post is predictable when I see it…The lower two most likely have need for some government subsidy (kinda suggested by Jay)..the upper end of “intelligensia” live in a lala land that frowns upon anythingthing that suggests a departure of their way of thought…

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:37 am

What did I say that suggested to you that anyone is proposing 100% taxes..you understand the idea of perspective don’t you?

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/11/09/economic-insecurity-a-challenge-to-gop/?cp=all#comment-1145200

Taxing the “rich” defined as amounts over $250 at 100% would run the goverment for 140 days or so…of course that is unrealisitic…but telling…

Why would you even need to include that statement in a discussion? I’m not taking things out of context. You post that as though that is an idea being floated because you then make a statement about Dems cutting through social programs. The idea that people put that statement up as though it’s some kind of suggestion is not simply a fairy tale statement. If you know it’s not an idea being floated around, why present it as though it has any merit at all? If it were me, I would never use that statement because it’s common sense, and nobody’s suggesting it. That’s just me though.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:39 am

FLAGBOY

In fairness, Fox does at least attempt to offer both sides (as weak as the attempt may be) which is completely different than its cable competitors IMO.

Self admittedly, 70% of journalists are liberals or otherwise democratic…so IMO the bias is on both in front and behind the scenes…

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:40 am

Flagboy — “Man, I love talking/arguing/debating about things. Honestly. But you never stick with one argument, and worse, change what it was you were apparently intending to say.”

Stop right there, mister.

You have absolutely no authority to claim knowledge of what I meant or “intended to say.” If you think you can speak for me, we are not going to get along well at all.

If you want me to *clarify* something because it wasn’t clear to you or sounded really unreasonable, then simply ask me. I’ll always respond positively to polite questions.

If, however, you’re going to act like Towncrier or Doom and say ‘this is what you were thinking and this is what you meant and HAHA I proved you wrong,’ then we’re going to argue a lot more than we discuss. You can’t read my mind any more than I can read yours. Keep that in mind and we should be able to get along.

“the church isn’t a good example.”

On the contrary. It is an excellent example.

“I get to decide if i want to support a church or even attend one. I don’t get the same choice with government.”

Of course you have the same choice with government. Don’t like it, emigrate. Just like a church — if you don’t like one, move along to another. The only difference is the distance you might have to move and the regulatory hurdles in your way.

FWIW, my wife and I are looking at retiring overseas, so I’m not ignorant of the issues involved.

RW-(the original)

November 9th, 2012
10:42 am

when I came to GA and faced these effeminate, spindly little touch screens.

When I first voted in Georgia I was faced with having to use a metal spike to punch a hole through a flimsy piece of cardboard. I would only find out a few cycles later how difficult a task that was for some people.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:42 am

No compromise! You wanted tax increases, let them begin.

The GOP wanted tax increases. If those tax cuts were all they were suppsed to be, they should have been able to pass them by normal means to make them permanent. Instead, they used reconcilliation, which gave them a 10 year sunset period. If it were up to me, they would have disappeared 2 years ago and wouldn’t be a point of contention today.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Pay attention……. someone earlier used the term “law abiding illegals” – not me. That term is an oxymoron. Foreigners – non U.S. citizens (from anywhere) Coming across the border into the U.S. without the proper entry papers is illegal but just not that well enforced. End of discussion.

Welcome to the Occupation

November 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Morality? “Obama is not the center – he is LEFT of center and it would do him well to move to the center for the future of the Dem Party.”

Is that a joke? Parody?

Obama as “left” of center? What universe do you live in actually?

Obama heads of a right of center Democratic party and if anything he is to the right of his party as a whole.

godless heathen

November 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Seems that every category is in favor of DEMS except a tie for undergrads…???

Biggest advantage is in those that don’t finish high school. The original poster caused to me to look it up, so I posted what I found. As I originally said not easy to discern who is better educated because the # in each group varies.

One does wonder how the poor ignorant trailer-dwelling GOPers all got so filthy wealthy. /sarc

Heckle and JayKyle

November 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Love the word Magpie. The two Magpies of Wisdom are JayKyle. Right and Left. One thinks the Right needs to reach out to the diseased-minded Left. The other thinks that only a reality sandwich can help.

Kyle thinks that liberalism is a disease of the mind and body, soul and heart. Jay thinks that conservatism is a corrupt demon where only the lie can thrive. This is the backstory of the 3-d video game that our political landscape has become.

BTW: did anyone wear the 3-d glasses in the voting booth to help pull the lever? In Florida, your vote didn’t count if you failed to wear the glasses. (That explanation is as good as the real one for why Fla takes so long, but we’ll never get the real explanation ever.)

ever.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:44 am

S. Ray — “In fairness, Fox does at least attempt to offer both sides (as weak as the attempt may be) which is completely different than its cable competitors IMO.”

I don’t see that at all.

Rachel Maddow routinely invites conservatives on her show, and she gives them all the time they want to discuss their POV. The part they don’t like is *after* they’re done talking, because she asks *hard,* well-informed questions and she doesn’t take ‘I don’t want to answer that” as an acceptable response.

Rand Paul hung himself by his own rope on her show a couple of years ago, but it was all his own fault. The things he said that the media vilified him for were the things he came on there to say.

And FWIW, NPR is a lot more moderate than a lot of conservatives believe. In fact, I heard a five-minute interview with Richard Viguerie on NPR just this morning.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
10:45 am

Um, we use spindly touch screens because there was some much whining over the so-called “dimpled chads”.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
10:46 am

so much not some much.

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
10:46 am

Libs want conservatives to STFU, So when things go wrong, what will they do?…. they will blame it on conservatives for doing just that.

clem

November 9th, 2012
10:46 am

how true Bros., the truth is compromise should prevail, but nitwit tpers will gum up the works because they already have their money (at least some and the lower economic tper too stupid to comprehend they are being used). what do you expect in the south, they still fight the civil war

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:46 am

“Morality” — “Pay attention……. someone earlier used the term “law abiding illegals” – not me. That term is an oxymoron.”

No, it’s not.

“Foreigners – non U.S. citizens (from anywhere) Coming across the border into the U.S. without the proper entry papers is illegal”

Wrong. You are incorrect.

“End of discussion.”

We can only hope that it is the end of your uninformed ranting on the topic.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:48 am

BRO

So when thinking about the vilification of the evil rich who “don’t pay there fair share”, the fact puts in perspective that raising taxes on that class alone is only going to get us so far (of course that 100% is not realistic nor even proposed)..I see zero evidence that the DEMS will agree to take on the tactics to reform entitlement expenditures..the exaggeration that the GOP wanted to throw granny off the cliff, or end SS et al as we know it was a scare tactic the dems certainly don’t want to be on the otherside of…

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:48 am

Joe-
“And so it is with the USA. Don’t want to pay taxes, find another country. QED.”

“Why would I? I wasn’t employing the ‘ZOMG EITHER DEMS WIN OR I WALK’ rhetoric. It seems that once again, you’re leaping to a *lot* of conclusions about me — and once again, they’re wrong.”

quotes are yours.

And no, I don’t have the same choice with church. If I don’t want to go, I don’t go. If i want to leave the US, it certainly isn’t that simple (which, I wouldn’t want to do anyway, but you brought it up). Comparing the two is faulty logic.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:49 am

Try going in to Mexico, Canada, etc without a passport. You would be charged as illegally entering their country. END OF DISCUSSION.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:49 am

G. Heathen — “One does wonder how the poor ignorant trailer-dwelling GOPers all got so filthy wealthy. /sarc”

If you go on Free Republic, every poster there is either an attorney, an IT expert, a doctor or some kind of business owner (trucking lines and construction contracting seem to be the two most popular), but almost no one admits to being a farmer, construction worker, plumber or other salt-of-the-earth working man like that.

It’s like they’re all puffing their chests out for each other so the audience can see their big swingin’ egos.

Redcoat

November 9th, 2012
10:50 am

clem…….what would be a compromise in your opinion?

Mamouian

November 9th, 2012
10:51 am

All of you seem to have a lot to say. But, as in most circle jerks, no one is listening but you. The country is in decline and all you can do is squabble and gloat, like so many chickens clucking.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

November 9th, 2012
10:52 am

JOE,

Fox routinely has Axelrod, Sharpton, DEM party chairperson et al on shows..I’m thinking better of Maddow but I can’t stand her smug face when she points out bad things about the other guy but in general agree she does made an effort..I don’t spend much time at either..

You are spot on with NPR..althought some LIB spin does exist and is well documented..one I do like that is not sensationalistic is POTUS on XM..except when they have those god awful Media Matters knee padders on…

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:52 am

“Morality” — “Try going in to Mexico, Canada, etc without a passport. You would be charged as illegally entering their country.”

We don’t abide by Mexican or Canadian law in this country.

Being here without documentation is NOT a crime. It’s a *document offense.* You are just plain wrong.

“END OF DISCUSSION.”

Good, you’re getting worked up. I love when reality collides with con imaginations. It’s kinda like when they realized that Romney lost. :D

godless heathen

November 9th, 2012
10:52 am

If you go on Free Republic, every poster there is either an attorney, an IT expert, a doctor or some kind of business owner (trucking lines and construction contracting seem to be the two most popular), but almost no one admits to being a farmer, construction worker, plumber or other salt-of-the-earth working man like that.

Like this blog?

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:52 am

Foreigners – non U.S. citizens (from anywhere) Coming across the border into the U.S. without the proper entry papers is illegal but just not that well enforced.

I’ve gotta call bullsh*t on that one. What nationalities come across the border without the proper entry papers? That would be mostly Central American nationalities. That said, how do you account for the undocumented Italians, Irish, Brazilians, Africans, Europeans, and Asians living in this country?

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
10:54 am

I have never watched an episode of Hannity in my life, but I’d be willing someone could verify he regularly has liberals on his show as well. I don’t think that makes much difference in how balanced it is when you get the last word. I think Fox is full of crap, but many other news organizations are as well.

clem

November 9th, 2012
10:54 am

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/10/facebook-posts/viral-facebook-post-ceo-worker-pay-ratio-has-obscu/

ceos and upper management have made out like bandits over the years….

the evil rich don’t play by the same game they expect their employees (who are producers too) to follow …..comprende

my guess is redistribution would not be as necessary if the playing field more level. note the ceo comp in other countries.

nobody wants to harm the small business owner…..maybe the cap should be raised, but for folks like mitt who barely pay (he did not have guts to show his other tax returns where speculation was they used charity loophole to pay next to nothing) and those bs hedge fund managers…..give me a break

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:55 am

Flagboy — “quotes are yours.”

Yes, they are. I pointed out that I *didn’t* use that rhetoric during the Bush administration, since you seem to have completely forgotten where thid discussion came from.

You conjectured that I *had*. You were wrong.

“And no, I don’t have the same choice with church.”

Yes, you do. The fact that you don’t care to *exercise* that choice is neither here nor there.

“If I don’t want to go, I don’t go. If i want to leave the US, it certainly isn’t that simple (which, I wouldn’t want to do anyway, but you brought it up).”

Simplicity is irrelevant. Degree of difficulty is irrelevant. The choice is there. If you choose not to exercise that choice, the fault lies with you.

“Comparing the two is faulty logic.”

No, it’s not. It’s quite simple and elegant logic.

Once again, the fact that *you* choose not to exercise a choice that you have does not demonstrate that no choice exists.

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
10:56 am

So when thinking about the vilification of the evil rich who “don’t pay there fair share”, the fact puts in perspective that raising taxes on that class alone is only going to get us so far (of course that 100% is not realistic nor even proposed)

So, if it’s not realistic or even proposed, why use it? That’s what I don’t understand. Maybe it’s not meant for me to understand.

I see zero evidence that the DEMS will agree to take on the tactics to reform entitlement expenditures

When you’re not looking for something, you will never find it.

the exaggeration that the GOP wanted to throw granny off the cliff

Blame Citizen’s United. After all, that was a SuperPAC that started that crap.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
10:56 am

Occupy – I hate to bust your bubble but if you truly believe Obama is CENTER then you are left of center. Your compass is off.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
10:57 am

G. Heathen — “Like this blog?”

I think we have quite a few retirees. And Redneck Convert claims to drive a beer truck.

RB claims to own a business but won’t say what it is.

TaxPayer

November 9th, 2012
11:00 am

mama says is having a bad hair day.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
11:05 am

gone upstairs

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:06 am

You are the one with the rising blood pressure. You don’t have what it takes to get me worked up – but keep DREAMING.

clem

November 9th, 2012
11:07 am

redcoat, a compromise using SB as framework….roughly 2-3 in cuts (glidepath with triggers) for 1 in new revenue (higher rates for high income folks say $1m with protections for small business not hedge funds). then a 2 yr drop dead date on entitlement and tax reform if possible. hopefully that would mean broadening tax base and possibly lowering corporate and individ taxes but cost/benefitting all loopholes in tax code.

GT

November 9th, 2012
11:08 am

Cosby I think the country is dropping because the south which is a third world country in disguise is having way too much influence on the rest of the country for what they bring to the table. The talk radio shows are like the old revival broadcast you would get late at night, screaming and breathing where you could hear them without the radio, they are so loud, in that chant, on your car radio driving to or from college deep in the country. They now stir up the weak minded and characters of the south and places like the south in makeup. The right wing, tea party, tail is wagging the dog, they have no filter, no vetting process to cull the poison from the fruit and they are destroying both their party and the country to feed their uneducated paranoia. They send rough as cob representative to the house who throw the word liar around with absolutely no respect or substance, they just like the way they sound saying that word, liar. They are the type who poses quick drawing their guns in a full mirror pretending they are cowboys. They bully their own, and we sit with a third world credit rating today because of them. If they represent the majority of this country we deserve to be a third world nation and looking for a rung below that. Classless, mindless, dime store bullies, found in any banana republic report and southern dirt road.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:14 am

GT, if northerners really feel that way about southerners, why didn’t they just allow the south to secede? Then the north could carry on with their higher level of intellect and morility and not be bothered with all the southern miscreants?

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:14 am

morality not morility

flagboy?

November 9th, 2012
11:14 am

Joe – your original argument that conservatives support ministers taking from his/her congregation shows conservatives as being hypocrits was a stretch a few pages ago, and it’s still a stretch now.

And writing not wanting to go to church is the same as moving to another country as the same is a stretch as well.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:15 am

I do not support Obama’s socialist engineering. I do wish for Obama and Congress to get a clue and a policy and plan to reduce the Fed debt and help our country to economic recovery. If the Fed debt is ONE CENT lower at the end of Obama’s 2nd term I will admit that I was wrong and Obama was a great Prez. with the economy. Wishful thinking?

Ivan

November 9th, 2012
11:15 am

“2) We need to “have a conversation with” not “talk down to” folks that are not exactly like us.”

This actually belongs on the left side of the spectrum. If any party is condescending to those whom they disagree with, it’s Democrat/Liberal.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:17 am

If you don’t like the south you are free to go.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:19 am

Right on Morality. Don’t let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:19 am

If you wish to leave the south and promise not to return I will loan you my TOM TOM with the directions to Vermont.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:20 am

Nah, don’t let them go to Vermont. Make them go to New Jersey.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:21 am

Vermont is a beautiful state (flowers and stuff) and you will feel at home there with Ben & Jerry.

Welcome to the Occupation

November 9th, 2012
11:22 am

Morality? “I do not support Obama’s socialist engineering.”

Again, there is nothing whatsoever about Obama that is even light years from being “socialist”.

And if you insist on believing otherwise despite all evidence to the contrary, then that just demonstrates your abject ignorance, stupidity, etc.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:23 am

Yeah, but I was thinking it is too pretty for them. Newark, Philly, NYC would be better options for them.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:24 am

Well I was just suggesting Vermont because it is more “progressive” (Socialist) than New Jersey and it has fewer electoral votes.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:25 am

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:27 am

How about D.C. then? That should fit all of your necessary criteria and there is a lovely high crime rate there….. you know, big city atmosphere and all.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:31 am

Occupation – Like I said – your opinion of Obama is clouded because you too are left of center. Move to the middle and then you will understand. Obama is a big gub’ment SOCIALIST and he hangs with socialists. Socialists were his mentors. He was raised by socialists – it’s not all his fault.

Morality?

November 9th, 2012
11:32 am

Got to go now but it has been pleasant. (smiley face applied for)

RF

November 9th, 2012
11:34 am

I liked the last line of French’s article:

“We have the better message. Now we have to make sure our fellow citizens see it as empowering, not terrifying”

They’re gonna have to work a LOT harder if they think their message will be anything but terrifying for a long time to come…

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:38 am

Again I ask. There are a lot of references as to the “Bush tax cuts that benefit the wealthy” but no one seems to be able to enumerate them. The Kool-Aid propaganda machine at work. When so many lower income and middle class people pay no taxes at all, how does that favor the rich? Another question – Why should dividend income be double taxed? Interest income isn’t double taxed.

RF

November 9th, 2012
11:38 am

JAY- Could you set the filter to catch the word “socialist”? I’m about tired of hearing it, especially from people who have no idea what it means. I’m also tired of the convenience of that word to replace many others that would show the truly negative racial stereotypes so many of these people ascribe to and just don’t want to say them out loud.

clem

November 9th, 2012
11:42 am

ny, try doing some independent research…. try this
http://www.salon.com/2012/06/21/who_benefits_from_bushs_tax_cuts/

couple that with recent cbo report and crs report on impact of keeping taxes higher on upper income folks

Nunna Yobinnes

November 9th, 2012
11:52 am

Clem, the report you referred me to did not give any indication of how the rich folks benefit. They are, as always just vague references designed to stir up liberals against the evil rich. The only benefit that I can recall off hand is the tax treatment of capital gains and dividends. The tax rate for those types of income is reduced across the board. Dividend income has already been taxed once at the corporate level. Middle class people have dividend income and capital gains too. (At least we used to, anyway.)

clem

November 9th, 2012
12:40 pm

guess you don’t understand our basic income tax system in first place. there was progressivity built in long time ago. while i would agree that only increasing rates on a certain group is unfair, i would point out that based on many reports upper income folks are getting disproportionate share of income as well. so what is fair. i can merely state that program cuts will likely impact lower and middle income folks more than the rich. that is their skin in this round of the game. so what is the upper income’s proportionate share of skin? and what is the impact.

by way of illustration, a company i am aware of several years ago gave raises with a floor and a cap (assuming certain productivity measures). the logic was a straight percentage raise in tight times would give upper pay scale folks more coverage of basic necessities or cost of living. thus, in effort to help lower pay scale folks a floor was provided which gave them a higher % of raise not absolute dollars. was that fair. guess in eye of beholder. but even boortz and his fair tax crowd have i think a minimum prebate or whatever (i am no expert there).

so if you only do cuts to programs, it would seem the lower/middle income folks are more greatly impacted than higher income folks. so a slightly higher rate (under clinton when times were good) for upper income folks sort of levels the pain index. this is a generalization but i think that might explaing to you.

i am sure you understood this before , but maybe it helps.

but surely you must be suspicious of all the loopholes created for wealthy with their various trusts loopholes not available to low/moderate wealth individuals. maybe you can show me some cost/benefit to those bs loopholes. the rich bribed congress to do many of these, both parties.

Marc

November 9th, 2012
12:45 pm

The media/journalist are suppose to be unbiased and objective. If they aren’t they are propagandist clear and simple. When the media become propagandist you have people in power like Stalin and Hitler.

clem

November 9th, 2012
12:57 pm

well that’s why they have jay and kyle…….but who is more correct?

old style journalism….digging and staying with story seems to be gone these days of short attention span and instant gratification

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
12:58 pm

“Morality” — “You are the one with the rising blood pressure. You don’t have what it takes to get me worked up – but keep DREAMING.

Sonny, as loudly as you’re screaming about something that you are — once again — wrong about, don’t even bother to deny it.

Being here without documents isn’t a crime. Call ICE. They’ll tell you so.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 9th, 2012
12:59 pm

Flagboy — “Joe – your original argument that conservatives support ministers taking from his/her congregation shows conservatives as being hypocrits was a stretch a few pages ago, and it’s still a stretch now.”

Not in the least. It’s simply an uncomfortable truth that conservatives won’t confront.

“And writing not wanting to go to church is the same as moving to another country as the same is a stretch as well.”

I am pleased to once again accept your concession and surrender.

dbm

November 10th, 2012
8:12 am

ByteMe – Got ilk?

November 9th, 2012
7:47 am

Is that too little indoctrination from their side, or too much from the other?

Wouldn’t breaking the public school monopoly make it harder for any one point of view to indoctrinate everyone?

dbm

November 10th, 2012
8:19 am

Brosephus™

November 9th, 2012
7:55 am

And not enough people realize yet that the way to get politicians the f**k out of the system is to separate state and education.