Economic insecurity a challenge to GOP
As might be expected, there’s a lot rethinking under way among conservatives in the wake of Tuesday night. Before the election, for example, I ran a sampling of headlines from National Review’s website, each of them supremely confident in a Romney victory, nay landslide.
As of last night, the terrain has changed:
Our Terrifying Message
People are afraid of the GOP
Why Hispanics Don’t Vote GOP
The “social issues” Hispanic voter is a mirage
Sifting Through the Wreckage
A grim four years lie ahead
The Machine
The numbers beat the numbers guy
Bitterfest 2012
Jay Nordlinger presents his apparently quadrennial notes
How Romney Lost
The bad news: Class warfare works
Under the first headline, about the terrifying GOP, we find this:
“… each of Obama’s core constituencies (single women, African-Americans, and Latinos) is seriously — and disproportionately — economically disadvantaged compared to the classic paradigm of the white, college-educated Republican voter. The rates of poverty and near-poverty among these groups are much greater, thus causing a critical mass of both populations to suffer — even if they’re technically middle class — from a greater degree of economic insecurity. Even as Mitt won the votes of those who make over $50,000 by nine points, Obama won those who make less by a whopping 22 points — enough to give him the victory.
Second, while classic identity-group issues like abortion, affirmative action, and immigration undoubtedly matter, conservatives are deluding themselves if they think they can simply take those issues off the table and then compete on equal terms for this slice of voters. In fact, economically insecure voters can even agree with conservatives on social issues yet will still consistently pull the lever for statist candidates. Ideologically and historically they are pre-disposed towards statism as the means of alleviating economic insecurity and distress. In other words, for the single mom, “Julia” is an appealing paradigm — because at least someone is taking care of her family. (If I hear one more time that Latinos are social conservatives ready to support Republicans if only we could pass comprehensive immigration reform, I might throw something).”
As an initial diagnosis of the problem, I think that’s somewhat accurate. Economic insecurity is a serious and growing issue for millions of Americans, driven in part by a changing global economy and by a system that concentrates more and more wealth at the top. French is wrong to limit that to minority voters, however. The successful government bailout of the auto industry, alleviating economic security for a million or more workers, helped the Obama ticket immensely among white voters in states such as Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin. A lot of GOP voters also feel that insecurity, but for the moment the party has managed to convince them that the cause of that insecurity is government.
Within this new economic order — which is quite altered from the system that many of us knew growing up — individuals still can and do earn great success. But the system itself has changed in ways that permit fewer and fewer people to make that journey. That’s just a fact, and the causes driving that change are economic and technological in nature, not political.
(The cause is also not moral in nature. Those on the left who attribute these changes to amorality among the rich are just as wrong as those on the right who attribute it to amorality among the poor. Both rich and poor are merely responding rationally to the system in which they operate.)
And the recommended solution by David French?
“We simply can’t retreat into our large but still-minority cocoon of new media and talk only to each other, working hard to get ever-larger numbers of our shrinking constituencies to the polls. Our cultural efforts have to be every bit as wide-ranging and persistent as those of the Left. Majority ideologies are built over generations, not overnight, and it means breaking the public-school monopoly, influencing public schools even while we work to diminish their influence, sending our best and brightest young writers and actors into the lion’s den of Hollywood, working to reform higher education and breaking the ideological hammerlock of the hard Left on faculties, and working hard — very hard — to tell the true story of conservative compassion for the “least of these,” a story featuring the efficiency and creativity of private philanthropy combined with Christ-centered love and concern for the individual.”
The admission about public schools is interesting, confirming my belief that Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse, and that those Democrats who supported its passage will one day come to rue that decision. Overall, however, let’s just say the scope of the solution falls romantically short of the scale of the problem.
– Jay Bookman
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388 comments Add your comment
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
9:50 am
BRO
Re-read the post…closer, compare that to your impetuous comments and get back to me..how you read that and insinuate I’m suggesting anyone is proposing any such thing is quite a weak retort…
Maybe you can answer my question there bovine rectal man:-) How long can we sustain our spending of 30% over what we collect? Point here is that tax increases are very difficult to undo, whereas cuts may never come to fruition..
And yes, those amounts over $250k taxed at 100% equates to $1.4 trillion…google it yourself..
AmericaShrugged
November 9th, 2012
9:50 am
Of course w’re economically insecure. We’ve been spending like drunken sailors and everyone knows that can’t continue but nothing has been done about it so far. We’re hitting the cliff because the parties couldn’t compromise and start putting the recommendations of the bi-partisan committee in place. It’s a fairly simple plan of reducing spending and increasing tax revenue by lowering rates on regular income while eliminating a lot of deuctions and credits and taxing capital gains and dividends as regular income. It’s a good plan, pretty fair for everyone.
The bad news is congress won’t come close to embracing a lot of the recommendations. And the committee projected that if all the recommeendations were implemented, a year or two ago, we still wouldn’t balance the budget until 2035!
clem
November 9th, 2012
9:50 am
after reading some of the right wing garbage on kyle’s site, it really amazes me that repubs, old white males who have disproportionate amount of dollars, still think they rule the roost.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:50 am
“No, I wouldn’t prefer to see anyone begging in the streets and I don’t personally know anyone who wants to see people begging in the streets”
and yet, when asked, you offer NO ALTERNATIVE. You don’t want to see able bodied people getting money from the government. Ok, WHAT’S THE ALTERNATIVE WHEN BUSINESSES AREN’T HIRING?
Morality?
November 9th, 2012
9:51 am
Jay – I bet you $5.00 that YOU don’t want the Dems to compromise. PARTY LOYALISTS choosing their party over their country have created this disaster. I am sick of PARTY LOYALISTS.
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
9:51 am
Joe -
WTF do you think a church is?
The minister supports himself “via the labor of others.” What does the minister produce? Why does he not labor? And why aren’t you complaining about *that* kind of taking?
________________________________________
I would imagine he’s not arguing about that because people get to choose whether they support the minister. If I don’t want to put money in the collection plate, I don’t have to.
AmericaShrugged
November 9th, 2012
9:52 am
clem – That’s because they do. They still control most of the wealth and Republicans still hold the majority of important elected positions.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 9th, 2012
9:52 am
REDCOAT,
You seem to be rather right leaning in your posts, so I am compelled to ask you why you chose as your Nom de Blog, “Redcoat”? That word is almost universal in identifying Great Britain who, at its heart, is a socialist monarchy. I’m just curious.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 9th, 2012
9:52 am
Well its clear that the stupid goes deep into the Republican party. Among Republicans, there are competing explanations for what went wrong in the 2012 elections, but Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) has reached his own conclusion: Americans just aren’t sharp enough to appreciate the far-right message….. For the record, Ron Johnson believes affordable contraception is easily distributed over the Internet, thinks “sunspot activity” is responsible for global warming, believes the Great Recession ended before President Obama took office; and sees public investment in alternative energy as roughly the same thing as “the Soviet Union.”
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:52 am
“I wonder how Billy Graham is taking the lost?”
I wonder if he’ll put Mormons back on the cult list?
Mary Elizabeth
November 9th, 2012
9:53 am
Corbin Sharpe, 9:43 am
Redcoat
November 9th, 2012
9:54 am
Has Obama applied for the US to join the EU yet?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 9th, 2012
9:54 am
Looks like Jay can pick up a quick $5, although I suspect that AJC rules may hinder that…. Morality really should step up and offer $5k to Jay’s favority charity.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:54 am
“Jay – I bet you $5.00 that YOU don’t want the Dems to compromise”
I’m not Jay, but I can confidently predict you would lose that $5
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
9:55 am
““I disagree and haven’t up until this point in my life been able to understand where folks such as yourself are coming from. The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others.””
OF the people
BY the people
FOR the people
Rightwing Troll
November 9th, 2012
9:55 am
“after reading some of the right wing garbage on kyle’s site, it really amazes me that repubs, old white males who have disproportionate amount of dollars, still think they rule the roost.”
And most every single one is a taker and a moocher by thier very own definitions… like I sad the irony here, it is legion…
Morality?
November 9th, 2012
9:55 am
“What is the alternative when businesses aren’t hiring/” Obama could try to create an environment where the private sector would have more confidence and trust in him – but he hasn’t. Instead he vilifies them as the hated 1%. Some one needs to form Obama that he is a member of the hated 1% himself. Create an environment – don’t vilify.
mystery person is
November 9th, 2012
9:55 am
I wonder if he’ll put Mormons back on the cult list?
_____
how many fund$ are involved?
GT
November 9th, 2012
9:55 am
Rightwing Troll I am wondering if the Mormon Church is now back on Billy’s cult list.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 9th, 2012
9:55 am
Time for the Robin Hood tax on Wall Street speculation!
Get er done!
godless heathen
November 9th, 2012
9:55 am
Their typical voter is less educated than those that vote Democrats.
From CNN for 2006 election.
Dem/Rep No High School 64%/35%
High School Grad 55/44
College Grad 49/49
Post grad 58/41
Since the number of peeps in each group varies, not easy to see which party voter is more educated. Dems appear to be favored by HS drop-outs and pointy heads. Two groups with equal amounts of common sense.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
9:56 am
“I’m not Jay, but I can confidently predict you would lose that $5″
I second that.
Rightwing Troll
November 9th, 2012
9:56 am
I’d take that bet Morality?… except for the fact that wingnuts here have a history of welching on bets….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 9th, 2012
9:56 am
I am wondering if the Mormon Church is now back on Billy’s cult list.
I bet Billy moved it to the top of the list – in bold red letters…
Redcoat
November 9th, 2012
9:56 am
Is being unionized been made mandatory yet?
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
9:57 am
REDCOAT could have something to do with the UGA band. . .
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:57 am
“Obama could try to create an environment where the private sector would have more confidence and trust in him – but he hasn’t”
and how, within the confines of his power as President…do you think he can do that? What would YOUR suggestions be?
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
9:57 am
Mama Says
Question for you. How do you address that budget issue when you have the same set up that you described (income = $50k; budget = $60k), and you have a new addition or two added to the family each and every year? That budget will not remain $60k, and working 2-3 jobs will only be so effective to a point. At some point, you have to put someone else in the house to work to help out with that income.
That’s the problem with trying to compare a household income with the government. Our population is constantly on the increase. There are always different things we have to respond to whether it’s terrorist attacks or natural disasters. I understand the idea behind comparing the two, but I think it does a big disservice to people to try to make that leap. There are far too many variables between the two that keeps any valid comparison from being made.
In short, the solution to our problem is to reverse our actions from the past 30-40 years. We’ve been increasing spending and cutting taxes. Now, we need to increase taxes and cut spending. Nothing else is going to work, no matter how you try to contort or twist things.
GT
November 9th, 2012
9:57 am
What is needed is to block the Tea Party from being domestic terrorist this time around.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
9:57 am
AMERICASHRUGGED
Agreed..
The very, very simple solution is to cut 10% across the board (can someone convince me why this is not possible) and 20% out of defense…increase taxes very deliberately over several years….
If we commit to zero new spending projects for that time, simple arithimatic could be our saving grace…
Oscar
November 9th, 2012
9:57 am
RW-(the original)
November 9th, 2012
9:49 am
_____
If you are quoting someone who asked a question seems like it should go inside.
He asked “Did anyone see my car keys?”
Or:
Do you know if this quote is right “Good songs live forever”?
What do yout think, Bro.
Georgia
November 9th, 2012
9:58 am
Explain why Obama’s second term has been coming for decades: Seriously, the first card the Right dropped on the middle class was when America lost it’s free healthcare. In the old days, healthcare was provided by the employer. Then they started deducting small, insignificant amounts to help pay for it, then it was dropped entirely. The inflation of healthcare still astonishes everyone to this day. So what’s the problem? Why can’t healthcare stay close to the national average of inflation? Incompetetent doctors. Corrupt drug and insurance companies. It’s the total corrupt system of drug companies being allowed to pressure doctors, who don’t know how to diagnose cancer anyway, to diagnose a certain type of cancer that would allow a clinical trial for new profitable drugs. The entire system, from RX to Insurance to medical schools is corrupt and useless. If your cancer is cured, it’s only because an angel is on your shoulder. It’s not because the doctors figured exactly what your condition was and then prescribed the best medicine. That only happens in the movies.
The Right claims that the USA has the best healthcare in the world. I personally know just how big a total lie that is.
Redcoat
November 9th, 2012
9:59 am
What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”? Better get that straight before having any conversations…….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 9th, 2012
9:59 am
Morality, I urge you to not invest in companies that hire based on their “feelings.”
I suggest you invest in companies that hire based on demand for their products or services.
Rightwing Troll
November 9th, 2012
9:59 am
McConnell came out and announced today that it will be the senate Republican’s intentions to make Obama a 2 term president…
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
9:59 am
Flagboy — “I would imagine he’s not arguing about that because people get to choose whether they support the minister.”
Depending on the church, you may or may not have a choice.
“If I don’t want to put money in the collection plate, I don’t have to.”
And so it is with the USA. Don’t want to pay taxes, find another country. QED.
BTW, thanks for walking right into that.
Obama won, now what......
November 9th, 2012
10:00 am
Hey Clem!
Us old white guys that have the money still rule! Go to France if you want things to be more fair! Hell, save your travel cost, we will be like France soon enough!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 9th, 2012
10:00 am
And if Romney had won that narrow victory the headlines would have said much the same about Obama.
The liberal mantra continues:
“The government is the only thing we all belong to”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 9th, 2012
10:00 am
What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”?
What is the Cons definition of “signing statement” or “executive order”?
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
10:00 am
“What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”?”
I can tell you what it ISN’T. It isn’t “my way or the highway”
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
10:01 am
GODLESS
Not sure who you are responding to re who is smarter but I bet my dad can beat up your dad:-)
Ridiculous and irrelevant argument…I’m surprised you even responded to the bait.
Oscar
November 9th, 2012
10:01 am
The GOP still has no clue.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 9th, 2012
10:03 am
Stevie, here’s a suggestion. Instead of making oversimplistic suggestions of across the board cuts and no new spending and telling others to convince you, you can invest your own time in doing the research on problems with across the board cuts and cutting with a hatchet rather than a scalpel. Take some personal responsibility and educate yourself rather than asking others to do all the work for you.
Oscar
November 9th, 2012
10:04 am
JB, speaker of the house said that a tax increase could not pass the house, so an increase is unacceptable.
The dems said any bill that does not include a tax increase is unacceptable.
Does not sound much like compromise to me.
Sounds more like they prefer going over the cliff rather than compromise.
Morality?
November 9th, 2012
10:04 am
I will gladly donate $5.00 to Jay’s favorite charity right after Obama and the Dems compromise with the Repubs to create a budget that both can agree on. It hasn’t happened the last four years. Hairy Weed said publicly before the election that he would not compromise or cooperate with the Repubs if they were fortunate enough to win the Prez. That attitude of PARTY LOYALTY over LOYALTY TO THE USA has made Congress very ineffective. We have a do nothing grid lock in D.C. TERM LIMITS.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
10:04 am
“The liberal mantra continues:
“The government is the only thing we all belong to””
who knew that Scout upped and moved to Colorado in the last few days … cuz, buddy, you’re HIIIIIIIIIIIGHer than a paper kite.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 9th, 2012
10:04 am
How cute… Senior Digits still wants to believe that somehow his side ekked out some sort of victory. Tell us more about that Bush mandate Senior……
clem
November 9th, 2012
10:05 am
atlas, it may be true now but they lost given the roi……only reason they did win the house is gerrymandering…. but next decade may really be startling unless gop changes its ways
stands for decibels
November 9th, 2012
10:05 am
How about just the terminology “pull the lever?”? I’ve been voting for a lot longer than I’d like to think about and I’ve never pulled a lever to vote yet.
Hi, RW. I’ve pulled the lever quite a few times, but that was on an old-fashioned voting machine common in the Northeast, only recently phased out. That’s where the expression comes from.
More info here:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/10/a-love-affair-with-lever-voting-machines/
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
10:06 am
Joe – I knew the “you’re free to leave whenever you like” would be the response. By the same token, you could have left the US when Bush was in office. . you were free to leave. you didn’t from what I gather.
I normally think that whole line of debate is juvenile, so I avoid it.
John Konop
November 9th, 2012
10:06 am
I keep hearing about how it was all about turn out from the GOP talking heads that refused to take a realistic view of the polls. The numbers are clear, minority votes are growing and obviously older white vote shrinks every presidential cycle. It is simple math! The GOP can either deal with the issue, or stay in denial.
The biggest issue the GOP faces is the base being driven by an echo chamber on TV and radio. The agenda for TV and radio is viewership not the country and or party. The GOP can keep playing to the echo chamber in the house via Jerry mandering. This will work for awhile, but eventually it is dying game with their views on social issues and immigration.
The GOP could also help reform issues within the budget, healthcare, immigration…..with reforms within the framework. If they do that the party would become stronger and not become a regional based party over time.
If you disagree with me this was from Forbes magazine.
……….Why Romney Lost And Republicans Keep Losing……..
………Each speech, Republican candidates often competed for most religious, most “family values”, most pro-life. The definition of conservative has shifted from running a responsible government with a balanced budget to how many days a week you punched your attendance ticket at church. It borders on zealotry. If your credentials on abortion don’t go back at least five generations, you might be branded an apostate………….
http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2012/11/09/why-romney-lost-and-republicans-keep-losing/
Dirty Dawg
November 9th, 2012
10:06 am
What I think I’m getting from the suggested new Republican strategy is that they need a better, more realistic looking, set of sheep’s clothing…the damned wolves.
clem
November 9th, 2012
10:06 am
more tax cuts for wealthy will not spur the economy. anyone saying different prove it with real math
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 9th, 2012
10:07 am
What is the Dems/Libs definition of “compromise”?
As Finn said, “What is the Cons definition of “signing statement” or “executive order”?”
…and I might add, ” what is the definition of signing pledges to a person instead of to a nation?”
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 9th, 2012
10:07 am
“With conservatives across the country concerned about a rumored Republican cave-in in Washington, D.C. over tax policy, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is speaking out. Read his lips: no tax hikes.”
The battle will continue ………………..
bookman parrot
November 9th, 2012
10:07 am
To Joe Hussein Mama,
You forgot one, just be a taker, probably you are and you don’t have to find another country.
You just walked into that one…
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
10:08 am
So if all the “cons” or otherwise folks who don’t buy the LIB agenda hook, line and sinker..left this blog, what good would this forum be? What can you learn from a big circle jerk except after awhile, you run out of gas and need a nap?
I guess we’d be better off if that old-fart GOP would just evaporate so LIBS could have run at the roost…what would likely be the financial outcome of that?
“Drinks for all my friends..!
Redcoat
November 9th, 2012
10:08 am
The only limitations on government now is the restraints of it’s citizens from asking more from it ……..
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
10:09 am
“Does not sound much like compromise to me”
By either side. But D’s are willing to entertain cutting spending if there is also a revenue increase. R’s will not entertain cutting if there is a tax increase. Which side sounds CLOSER to compromise to you?
Cosby
November 9th, 2012
10:09 am
another hate the GOP blog as well as class warfare..Perhaps we should divide up the States so the hispanics, blacks, Asian, women, white males can each have their own turf..then perhaps we can all live in peace. My problem is no one is addressing the destructive issues at hand. The USA has steadily dropped in the world in terms if investment opportunity, manufacturing, standard of living etc..all of which we were the undisputed #1 for years. We are fast becoming a third world country. All you have to do is look as the UN ( that third world organization) was questioning our voting process..The USA is suffering under a financial mess that will take generations to dig out from under while Harry and Boehner put on their cute startched shirts and use their ego to say I am the bully. The Islamic / Muslim hatred of the west continues to grow un checked. Iran is coming close to the nuke and what do we have in the news..class warefare, the government should give to this class and that class, our school system is in total destruction, no one seems close to taking care of themselves, but lets blog, use the media for class war fare…yep makes since to me…Really, is it not time that truth be told in lieu of one line blogs or derated blogs toward one party, ethnic group or whatever…if we do not get the finances in order, the manufacturing sector back in order, the job market growing, we will all be in the soup line but there will be no soup!
How stupid is The USA???
RW-(the original)
November 9th, 2012
10:10 am
Hi, RW. I’ve pulled the lever quite a few times, but that was on an old-fashioned voting machine common in the Northeast,
My grandparents used to tell me about those (and they were born in the 1800’s) How old did you say you were?
St Simons - he-ne-ha
November 9th, 2012
10:10 am
In my literary development, I think this old accountant’s got
metaphors purty good.
lets move on to alliteration – Plethora of Panty hose Puppets
heheh
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
10:11 am
Stevie . . . perhaps the AJC could get a “Balanced Budget Blog”. We could post there.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
10:12 am
“I will gladly donate $5.00 to Jay’s favorite charity right after Obama and the Dems compromise with the Repubs to create a budget that both can agree on. It hasn’t happened the last four years”
Budgets don’t mean a damn thing. They’re a red herring to distract people like you. There has been no budget, right? Has the government stopped working? Has funding stopped flowing? Are government workers still getting paide?
Stop chasing red herrings and concentrate on the things that MATTER.
indigo
November 9th, 2012
10:12 am
I’d bet the “prophet of God” of the Mormon Church assured Romney a win.
Will Romney ask what went wrong?
Will a furious Romney inform the “prophet” he’ll no longer get any money from the Romney family?
I would love to see that.
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
10:12 am
Are you trying to conjure up OREP?
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you’re right about that though.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
10:12 am
“I will gladly donate $5.00 to Jay’s favorite charity right after Obama and the Dems compromise with the Repubs to create a budget that both can agree on. It hasn’t happened the last four years”
Budgets don’t mean a damn thing. They’re a red herring to distract people like you. There has been no budget, right? Has the government stopped working? Has funding stopped flowing? Are government workers still getting paide?
Stop chasing red herrings and concentrate on the things that MATTER.
Paul
November 9th, 2012
10:12 am
Brosephus
“I could have told you that a long time ago.”
Instead you let me flounder…. I thought you libs were supposed to spoon-feed the rest of us?!!?
RW-(the original)
“I realize it’s a curse, but when one is as witty, charming, handsome and irresistible as I am no pick up lines are required”
It’s good to have you back here, friend.
godless heathen
November 9th, 2012
10:12 am
Ridiculous and irrelevant argument…I’m surprised you even responded to the bait.
Oft stated here that Dems are more educated that Reps. I was curious if this was true or just another Democratic Urban Legend like Red States receive more Fed$ than Blue States and Newt Gingrich served divorce papers on his dying wife.
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
10:12 am
Doggone, I might be wrong here, but didn’t the Republicans put something on the table a few years ago about increasing taxes if there was a dollar for dollar spending cut?
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
10:13 am
“What I think I’m getting from the suggested new Republican strategy is that they need a better, more realistic looking, set of sheep’s clothing…the damned wolves”
Agreed!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
10:13 am
Flagboy — “Joe – I knew the “you’re free to leave whenever you like” would be the response. By the same token, you could have left the US when Bush was in office. . you were free to leave. you didn’t from what I gather.”
Why would I? I wasn’t employing the ‘ZOMG EITHER DEMS WIN OR I WALK’ rhetoric. It seems that once again, you’re leaping to a *lot* of conclusions about me — and once again, they’re wrong.
“I normally think that whole line of debate is juvenile, so I avoid it.”
Except for suggesting that I could have left during the Bush administration, you mean.
Look, my point was simple. There are “takers” that conservatives *support.* There are places and situations in which conservatives *encourage* the taker-producer model. Yet it never enters their collective consciousness that their argument is flawed.
The church example is the simplest and most egregious example thereof. And if your solution — just leave — is so practicable and utilitarian, then why not use it? Otherwise, *you* are the one who veered into the ‘juvenile’ line of debate, because you could have easily manned up and taken on the taker-maker dichotomy that conservatives *sometimes* like.
If you want to object to the ‘juvenile’ line of debate, fine. Simply don’t go there, pal.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
10:14 am
KEEP
Please save me the “educate yourself” attempted close..
So you can’t imagine that there is not at least 10% waste to everything the government spends? Open your eyes dude…it’s quite simple really..you make it difficult by picking which categories are, in your opinion, sacred cows…
Hatchet? 10%?
Butch Cassidy (I)
November 9th, 2012
10:14 am
USA – “Ford Motor Company didn’t get one cent from the government and is surviving on their own.”
Yes, but they did advocate the bailout for the other automakers in order to salvage the suppliers.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
10:15 am
B. Parrot — “You forgot one, just be a taker, probably you are”
Nope. Producer here.
“You just walked into that one…”
Afraid not. Remember, con, your imagination doesn’t reflect reality.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 9th, 2012
10:15 am
Well, I see where this Canada lawyer that helps people move to Canada told a reporter he gets hundreds of calls from rich people that say they want to move to Canada after a Democrat gets elected. But he says he can’t recall more than 3 or 4 cases where people really moved over the past 20 years. Well-off people got it good here in the U.S., with low taxes. They ain’t crazy enough to move to a country where they get taxed more and can’t make as much money.
So don’t pay no nevermind to these folks like Trump that talk about losing freedom and paying too much taxes. Trump knows there ain’t another country in the world that would allow him to go bankrupt 3 or 4 times and stick somebody else with his losses. The same goes for that fool that said he might need to call out the national guard if Obama got elected and the moran in Woodstock that said he was closing the gates to his cushy subdivision. People with any sense know it’s Congress and not the President that make the laws and regulations. Ain’t nothing going to happen to change much in this country.
Have a good Friday everybody and if you want to blow off steam just threaten to move to Canada. But we all know you ain’t about to do that and you’re just like the braggard that would mess his pants if anybody really did carry thru with a threat. You got about three square yards of hat and not even a old milk cow to your name.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
10:15 am
“Doggone, I might be wrong here, but didn’t the Republicans put something on the table a few years ago about increasing taxes if there was a dollar for dollar spending cut?”
Not that I remember, but this isn’t a few years ago either. What they might have done then is no indication of what they have done more recently.
Morality?
November 9th, 2012
10:16 am
TROLL – you don’t need to call me names – I am not a Con – I am a fiscal conservative and did not vote for “W” or Obama because they are both fiscal liberals. Putting new mandates on businesses is not creating an atmosphere of trust.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
10:16 am
Cosby — “another hate the GOP blog as well as class warfare..Perhaps we should divide up the States so the hispanics, blacks, Asian, women, white males can each have their own turf..then perhaps we can all live in peace.”
Too late. The cons have already done that.
It’s called gerrymandering.
Jim
November 9th, 2012
10:17 am
Mr. Wooten:
In 2008 I supported Mike Hucabee. When Senator McCain was nominated, I thought I would sit out the presidential election because, although I greatly admire the brave warrior, I find him to be too wishy-washy on domestic issues. Everybody said no, you can’t do that because that helps the democrat.
In 2012 I supported Herman Cain. When Governor Romney was nominated, I thought I would sit out the presidential election but everybody said no, that would help the democrat. My problem with Governor Romney was that he was too wishy-washy on the issues.
In 2016 I WILL NOT VOTE FOR REPUBLICAN NOMINEE if the nominee is not a true, consistent conservative. I could care less about the republican party and will not fall for this again. They have tried this wishy-washy stuff two straight elections and that did not work. Nominate a true, consistent conservative and you have my vote. Don’t and I promise you I will still vote but will leave the presidential choice blank.
As a matter of fact, I would support the formation of a true Conservative Party during the next four years and let the wishy-washies have the republican party.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
10:17 am
GODLESS
Newt will go down as one of the biggest, arrogant, self serving baffoons in the history of baffoons…as your example confirms, he’s simply not a good man…it also says very little about that…woman he traded his wife in for that she would allow that outcome…
Redcoat
November 9th, 2012
10:17 am
When most people ask the government for action, they pretty much don’t think anyone pays for it.
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
10:17 am
Stevie Ray
The point I was attempting to make, which obviously went way, way over your head, is that nobody’s suggesting taxing anybody that much. Economic experts all pretty much agree that a combination of spending cuts and tax increases well be needed to address the debt and deficit issues. The Left has already said the solution requires BOTH tax increases and spending cuts. What other involved party has NOT came to that same solution?????
I’ve said it before that my solution would be to gradually bring back the 2000 rates phased in over time. That would mean that taxes would go up on us all. At the same time, the percentage of those who have no net fed income tax liability would go from almost half the population to about one-third.
All that talk about taxing the wealthy 100% is nothing but a smoke screen tactic to keep from actually discussing reality in my opinion. That’s why I have the same response anytime that talking point is brought up.
Oscar
November 9th, 2012
10:18 am
The election showed the majority of Americans are in favor of some government intervention in the economy, e.g. the auto bailout, a progressive tax system, e.g. higher taxes for the wealthy, an immigration policy that allows law abiding illegals a way to become citizens; and government spending for education and training.
Any party, for instance the GOP that does not believe in those concepts is not going to win any national elections.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 9th, 2012
10:18 am
As I heard earlier in the week:
It’s hard to beat Santa Claus vs. Mom & Dad making you do your chores.
Delights vs. Discipline !
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 9th, 2012
10:19 am
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
10:16 am
Well put!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 9th, 2012
10:19 am
Oscar:
“The bigger the government the smaller the citizen”
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
10:19 am
Jim — “In 2016 I WILL NOT VOTE FOR REPUBLICAN NOMINEE if the nominee is not a true, consistent conservative. I could care less about the republican party and will not fall for this again. They have tried this wishy-washy stuff two straight elections and that did not work. Nominate a true, consistent conservative and you have my vote. Don’t and I promise you I will still vote but will leave the presidential choice blank.”
“As a matter of fact, I would support the formation of a true Conservative Party during the next four years and let the wishy-washies have the republican party.”
Sounds good. Please follow through on your threat.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
November 9th, 2012
10:20 am
Nooooo. No. Hell no. Don’t change a thing, cons.
This HAS to be in the Friday Night Music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DehrCHlFUTQ
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
10:21 am
Oscar @ 9:57
I think you have it right, but I’m not willing to face the wrath of OREP by answering with all certainty.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
10:21 am
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
10:11 am
I’d like to see a media outlet that is not simply towing a party line…I can’t think of any obvious or screened that arent’ led by the nose…an independent channel?
Ha, i’m hallcinating again..
Williebkind
November 9th, 2012
10:21 am
Stock market down again. It may drop to 3000. Yep, all those retirees depending of those stock investments over their life time will take another hit. Oil and coal costs will go up because we are now a green country. Yepper those conservatives sure gonna get it handed to them. After all they cant compromise because compromise means the conservatives give up their beliefs and values and accept lenin, marx, and stalin as the true heros. Of course mohammed may have a say or two.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 9th, 2012
10:21 am
St Simons – he-ne-ha
November 9th, 2012
10:20 am
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 9th, 2012
10:22 am
“Rep. Ron Paul, whose maverick presidential bids shook the GOP, said in the wake of this week’s elections that the country has already veered over the fiscal cliff and he sees no chance of righting ship in a country where too many people are dependent on government.
“We’re so far gone. We’re over the cliff,” the Texas Republican told Bloomberg Television’s “In the Loop” program. “We cannot get enough people in Congress in the next 5-10 years who will do wise things.”
Georgia
November 9th, 2012
10:23 am
Kyle is merely writing what he is told to write. RIGHT. He’s not become unhinged. It’s not his fault that his job is to write Right, and Jay’s job is to write LEFT. Jay is no more original in his insight than Stephanie Miller. The AJC has hired two writers for entertainment purposes. One right, one left. Where do you think Jay gets his material? If Jay wrote what was in his heart then the political landscape would be totally different. But that’s not America. We’re number one, remember? Jay is no more capable of refusing the bribes (his salary) than any other American. It’s about the money.
And look at us. Listen to Rush Limbaugh. Listen to Bill Maher. Are you proud to be an American? Listen to some of the Senators on the Right or the Left. Are you proud to be an American?
Prediction for America trying to find itself through the electoral process: Pain…. and I’m proud to be an american, where at least I know I’m free…. are we free? really? Lets ask JayKyle, the two Magpies of Wisdom sitting on the fence of our two party system.
Hey. I just invented a new name: “Heckle and JayKyle” Who is Heckle though? Me? I’m Heckle? (I’m still banned from most of the blogs on the AJC, don’t know why I’m allowed here at all).
A new thread. Heckle and JayKyle. If you read Jay, you automatically know what’s over at Kyle, (spectral opposite). and vice versa,
But it’s comforting to know where the Romney victory bubble originated: Karl Rove. That was proved on Fox News when they announced Ohio, and Karl scrambled with parsing and spin worthy of Clinton.
So, then, the free gimme that all the world got from the Obama election: a PhD in political science. A major in lies. A minor in never tell the truth. never admit defeat. Never act like the other side actually made a point or won a state or did anything patriotic. That’s politics. That’s JayKyle’s whole raison d’etre, and why any political blog gets a big “oui oui” from me.
Stand back. I’m home schooling.
Peadawg
November 9th, 2012
10:24 am
“I will still vote but will leave the presidential choice blank”
Then STFU b/c you can’t complain.
Morality?
November 9th, 2012
10:24 am
“In the old days companies provided health care for workers” . In the old days there was no welfare, no medicaid, no disability ,no social security, no business supported health care and no health care insurance. You either PAID for what you got yourself, got help from friends or from private charity.
The gub’ment wasn’t $16,000,000,000,000 + in debt and no one expected help from the gub’ment because they weren’t going to get any. And we weren’t approaching the fiscal cliff.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
10:25 am
Williebkind — “After all they cant compromise because compromise means the conservatives give up their beliefs and values and accept lenin, marx, and stalin as the true heros. Of course mohammed may have a say or two.”
Willie, you’re an example of a con with whom it would be useless to even *try* to compromise. If you’re going to paint us all as communists and write us off like that, then you’ve got no complaint coming when we write people like *you* off as well.
Compromise starts with trusting the other side. If you haven’t got that in you, then why bother participating in the American political process in the first place? If winning at all costs is what you want, try pro wrestling.
Oscar
November 9th, 2012
10:25 am
The bigger the government the smaller the citizen”
_______
How does a progressive tax system, an immigration policy that allows a path for citizenship, training for workers so they can acquire and create private jobs, and aiding private companies that need short term help to survive equate to bigger government?
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
10:26 am
You know, reading some of the stuff posted here by our conservative friends reminds me of an old descripotion of anarchists that I read somewhere: they know what they don’t want…they don’t know what they DO want.