Economic insecurity a challenge to GOP
As might be expected, there’s a lot rethinking under way among conservatives in the wake of Tuesday night. Before the election, for example, I ran a sampling of headlines from National Review’s website, each of them supremely confident in a Romney victory, nay landslide.
As of last night, the terrain has changed:
Our Terrifying Message
People are afraid of the GOP
Why Hispanics Don’t Vote GOP
The “social issues” Hispanic voter is a mirage
Sifting Through the Wreckage
A grim four years lie ahead
The Machine
The numbers beat the numbers guy
Bitterfest 2012
Jay Nordlinger presents his apparently quadrennial notes
How Romney Lost
The bad news: Class warfare works
Under the first headline, about the terrifying GOP, we find this:
“… each of Obama’s core constituencies (single women, African-Americans, and Latinos) is seriously — and disproportionately — economically disadvantaged compared to the classic paradigm of the white, college-educated Republican voter. The rates of poverty and near-poverty among these groups are much greater, thus causing a critical mass of both populations to suffer — even if they’re technically middle class — from a greater degree of economic insecurity. Even as Mitt won the votes of those who make over $50,000 by nine points, Obama won those who make less by a whopping 22 points — enough to give him the victory.
Second, while classic identity-group issues like abortion, affirmative action, and immigration undoubtedly matter, conservatives are deluding themselves if they think they can simply take those issues off the table and then compete on equal terms for this slice of voters. In fact, economically insecure voters can even agree with conservatives on social issues yet will still consistently pull the lever for statist candidates. Ideologically and historically they are pre-disposed towards statism as the means of alleviating economic insecurity and distress. In other words, for the single mom, “Julia” is an appealing paradigm — because at least someone is taking care of her family. (If I hear one more time that Latinos are social conservatives ready to support Republicans if only we could pass comprehensive immigration reform, I might throw something).”
As an initial diagnosis of the problem, I think that’s somewhat accurate. Economic insecurity is a serious and growing issue for millions of Americans, driven in part by a changing global economy and by a system that concentrates more and more wealth at the top. French is wrong to limit that to minority voters, however. The successful government bailout of the auto industry, alleviating economic security for a million or more workers, helped the Obama ticket immensely among white voters in states such as Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin. A lot of GOP voters also feel that insecurity, but for the moment the party has managed to convince them that the cause of that insecurity is government.
Within this new economic order — which is quite altered from the system that many of us knew growing up — individuals still can and do earn great success. But the system itself has changed in ways that permit fewer and fewer people to make that journey. That’s just a fact, and the causes driving that change are economic and technological in nature, not political.
(The cause is also not moral in nature. Those on the left who attribute these changes to amorality among the rich are just as wrong as those on the right who attribute it to amorality among the poor. Both rich and poor are merely responding rationally to the system in which they operate.)
And the recommended solution by David French?
“We simply can’t retreat into our large but still-minority cocoon of new media and talk only to each other, working hard to get ever-larger numbers of our shrinking constituencies to the polls. Our cultural efforts have to be every bit as wide-ranging and persistent as those of the Left. Majority ideologies are built over generations, not overnight, and it means breaking the public-school monopoly, influencing public schools even while we work to diminish their influence, sending our best and brightest young writers and actors into the lion’s den of Hollywood, working to reform higher education and breaking the ideological hammerlock of the hard Left on faculties, and working hard — very hard — to tell the true story of conservative compassion for the “least of these,” a story featuring the efficiency and creativity of private philanthropy combined with Christ-centered love and concern for the individual.”
The admission about public schools is interesting, confirming my belief that Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse, and that those Democrats who supported its passage will one day come to rue that decision. Overall, however, let’s just say the scope of the solution falls romantically short of the scale of the problem.
– Jay Bookman
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388 comments Add your comment
Butch Cassidy (I)
November 9th, 2012
8:55 am
rc – “the moochers looters and parasites. Won. The producers lost
Just that simple.”
What time does your flight leave?
stands for decibels
November 9th, 2012
8:56 am
What does Sheldon Effing Adelson “produce”?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
8:56 am
“Did the auto bailout work?”
yes.
this has been another simple answer to simple questions.
to expand on it – you guys seem to think that the bailout ONLY affected the automaker, itself. There are HUNDREDS of companies around the US that supply parts to those businesses – so, by saving the automakers and NOT forcing them to go into bankruptcy (which – unlike supply-side economics – actually DOES roll downhill), we saved thousands of additional jobs around the country.
no need to thank me. it’s all part of the service.
JamVet
November 9th, 2012
8:56 am
It appears that America’s right wing reactionaries – those favoring extreme conservatism or rightism in politics and opposed to political or social change – are going to require at least a couple of more electoral beat downs, like the one this week, before they change their intransigent and irrational ways.
Compromise is American.
Statesmanship is American.
Standing up for the little guy is American.
Try it, you’ll like it!
Paul
November 9th, 2012
8:57 am
I’m thinking a case can be made that top-tier (and others, judging by remarks here) Republicans really do hate competition.
Else why would they hear Pres Obama speak of a level playing field and giving everyone a fair shot and restate it as ‘he wants to guarantee outcomes’?
Why do they fight so desperately to retain a system that has been shown over the decades to stifle upward mobility, skews wealth accumulation towards a small segment and leaves the majority in a flat situation?
Do they really, really think maybe they aren’t all that competent, all that brilliant, and if everyone was dealt the same hand of cards out of a nonrigged deck that there’d be a lot more competition and they’d lose out to those who never would have been able to enter into the competitive ring before?
Yeah, I’m beginning to think a lot of conservative, free market, “get government off my back and let us rig the system for ourselves’ types really do hate competition.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
8:57 am
RONALD
Yes, what Deal is doing to the state is a shame…but that’s his solution to balancing budget and keeping us afloat…I’m glad we have balanced budget amendment..this is prime reason we have such gridlock at federal level because there is no incentive to use balls to make the tough decisions..
Traditional stuff really..DEMS want to continue to expand voter base via scare tactics and commitment to entitlements the voter base…GOP wants to please its voter base via smaller government and protection of big money…nothing new…
If we want cut’s from elsewhere, need DEM in governors seat…not sure how the budget will be balanced…what will need to get cut….that offsets the unfavorable cuts above…someone will always be unhappy..
Welcome to the Occupation
November 9th, 2012
8:57 am
It’s the crowning article of faith among the liberal class, of which Jay is a prime representative, to separate out the “economic” from the “political”, to forcibly wrench them out of their proper perspective as part of a dynamic whole, and to view them as being fundamentally separate. And from that flow so many of the limitations both in the strategic analysis of our political economy and in the properly political analysis.
JamVet
November 9th, 2012
8:57 am
Just that simple.
So says the simpleton…
Butch Cassidy (I)
November 9th, 2012
8:58 am
Obama won, now what….”All you libs better not be posting on your employers time.”
No worries, I retired in 2008 after 20 years in finance. Got plenty of time and money. Thanks for the conern.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
8:58 am
“What time does your flight leave?”
I’ll help ya pack!!
Georgia
November 9th, 2012
8:58 am
Conservatives’ last response to an Obama administration was the Tea Party. This time their bubble burst, and the denial, anger, despair, bargaining, and acceptance are still playing out. (5 stages of grief). What poison mushroom will pop up in the wash of the Obama mudslide this time?
Now, it’s fun to speculate what new strange creatures will emerge in the aftermath of this obvious act of political terror. Maybe The Mushroom Cloud party. No, the Smoking Gun party. No, the……..
stands for decibels
November 9th, 2012
8:59 am
you guys seem to think that the bailout ONLY affected the automaker, itself.
I don’t even believe they think that. I think they’re just lying, and can’t help themselves, because admitting the truth would cause their crap-ass house-of-cards ideology to collapse.
I mean, just take a look at their “producers” BS. Jeez.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
8:59 am
“Oh, do tell–just what, of tangible value, does a guy like Romney actually “produce?”
And aside from the Presidency, what has he lost?
Welcome to the Occupation
November 9th, 2012
8:59 am
What does Sheldon Effing Adelson “produce”?
Gambling addicts, maybe?
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
November 9th, 2012
9:00 am
Rush is right – going to be tough to beat Santa Claus. Voting for the guy that put you in your bad situation still does not make any sense, though. The question is – how long will it take this glorious coalition – the dependent (largest group, and getting larger everyday, on purpose), the unions (on the way out, but still able to wreak a great deal of havoc), the pridefully sinful (small, but shrill) and other assorted complainers – to figure out they are some of the greatest rubes of all time?
Our “per person” debt is now about 50% larger than Greece. If we did not print the world’s reserve currency, we would be in much worse shape than that tiny nation. We can neither tax income enough nor confiscate wealth enough to pay the debt, much less unfunded pension liabilities, etc., etc., etc.
Proverbs 29:2 – lot of groaning going on out there these days.
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
9:00 am
guy
November 9th, 2012
8:49 am
As long as this nation becomes less educated(and it definitely is as anyone can see) and the debt keeps on rising,no party can stop the looming disaster. When you spend more than you take in,look out! We all need to do the math and face reality.Not racism,REALISM! Why not cut all the aid to nations who dislike us no matter what? Stop the wars and take care of each other!
__________________________________
exit polls show cutting foreign aid as being near the top of voters’ ways of cutting spending.
International Assistance takes up less than 1% of the US budget. And the wars haven’t cost us a dime. Our kids and future generations will be footing that bill.
Paul
November 9th, 2012
9:00 am
USinUK
Which was the point Alan Mulally, CEO of Ford, made in his testimony to Congress.
Which somehow never gets quoted by talk radio and conservative tv.
Butch Cassidy (I)
November 9th, 2012
9:01 am
Doggone/GA – “And aside from the Presidency, what has he lost?”
About a billion dollars.
stands for decibels
November 9th, 2012
9:01 am
Gambling addicts, maybe?
Precisely.
willie lynch
November 9th, 2012
9:02 am
I don’t know what the solution is but the idea that white America will drive what is viewed as American culture going forward is one that white America will have to grapple with. Anyone that enters another country has to become familiar with and immersed in that culture in order to be able to move with fluidity. The problem with this is that the dominant culture usually doesn’t take time to know those coming in and relegates them to their own enclaves leaving the newcomer as the one learning anything of substance about the other.
Blacks, Latinos and women have been pushed into a coalition by the dominant player in the “American way” but each group still has a long way to go toward understanding issues that divide them and what can make their coalition stronger. It’s not that white males are being left out but it’s now time for them to understand that they have to take steps towards becoming more understanding of the other constituencies that make up this “pot” we call America. I would venture to say most Blacks and others coming into this country know more about the culture of white America than the other way around and nothing can be learned without an effort.
Fear can’t be the driver of attitudes forever. If America is to be great there has to be an equal partnership formed for the betterment of the country. This has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat it has everything to do with knowledge or the removal of ignorance.
I find this quote to be a guide for living personally: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Lord Help Us
November 9th, 2012
9:02 am
And, just like that…Benghazi all but disappears in the right-wing echo chamber.
To all of you cons that allowed Fox and others to gin up all your anger, ALL they cared about was the election…they did not and no not give one crap about the lives lost.
You got punked…again. Will you learn?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
9:03 am
Paul,
None of our elected officials want competition…most certainly not for re-election…I have no idea what a level playing field is….if it means upward mobility of those in the safety net, it is debateable if many are able to make the leap…I think using the safety nets beyond well…a safety net to help people get back on their feet, in many circumstances promotes the opposite..
IMO its not an easy term to define, especially from politicians creating false hope suggesting there is actually anything he can do, other than villifying those making over $250K to change anything..
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:03 am
“About a billion dollars”
Guess again. His supporters may have lost that, but HE didn’t. Heck, now he can continue to find ways to avoid paying even more tax with his offshore trusts and stuff. Without having to worry about the world looking over his shoulder. The way I see it, he’s GAINED a LOT.
alex
November 9th, 2012
9:03 am
@jamvet, glad you read it!
DebbieDoRight - The only thing wrong with capitalism is capitalists...
November 9th, 2012
9:04 am
Bro: If the product is useless to someone, wrapping it in silk and rose petals doesn’t alter it’s uselessness.
BINGO! That’s the problem right there! You can’t pretty up sh##t by putting a bow on it — its still sh##t and it still stinks like she##t.
You can’t go on National Television and say, “I’ll be glad to go and speak before the NAACP and I’ll ask them why they want food stamps instead of work”.
What you just said is a bunch of sh##t……….you just put a nice pretty bow on top of it.
================================
Byteme: So really, he thinks the Republican message has failed because of inadequate indoctrination starting from childhood. Think about that.
Yep – that’s why they’re so hot to trot to get their hands on public school board money, fire/not pay teachers, and degrade/defame the local school boards at every opportunity. The end game is to eventually do away with the US Dept. of Ed all together.
Then, we can go back to 6 year olds working in factories…………….
Penneymaker: I know it’s early on in what will likely be a multi-year proces, but yet another article focusing upon re-packaging and repositioning the current message and little to no discussion on the message itself.
They are doubling down on trickle down – they’ve come to believe the words of Goebbel, “The point of a political speech is to persuade people of what we think right. ………………..We do not want to be a movement of a few straw brains, but rather a movement that can conquer the broad masses. Propaganda should be popular, not intellectually pleasing. It is not the task of propaganda to discover intellectual truths”.
Adam @ 7:50 – You’re right! That was funny as hell!!!
LHU: I will believe it when I see it…
Word.
bookman parrot
November 9th, 2012
9:05 am
jay,
when the BHO policies start to want to take more money from my checkbook and redistribute; as a good lib supporter, you can pay for my portion, as it is what you want … and that would be very fair and compassionate of you. thank you…
Butch Cassidy (I)
November 9th, 2012
9:05 am
Doggone/GA – “Guess again. His supporters may have lost that, but HE didn’t.”
You’re right, I should have said ” About a billion dollars for his supporters”. That definitlely makes him sound a lot better. Thank you for correcting me.
alex
November 9th, 2012
9:05 am
Adelson produces jobs…… (and yes, Ithink he is obnoxious like Soros…)
Lord Help Us
November 9th, 2012
9:06 am
‘you can pay for my portion,’
Taker…
DannyX
November 9th, 2012
9:08 am
“You got punked…again. Will you learn?”
This alternate reality Fox News has created was really on display when it was announced that Obama won Ohio which meant he was reelected. They had their unskewed polls, Romney was going to win in a landslide. Oh the look on the faces of those in the crowd, priceless.
Brad Steel
November 9th, 2012
9:08 am
Reading, writing and right-wing politics…. may be they can throw in some “intelli-gent’s design” too and we all know who that gent is… huh?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
9:09 am
“What does Sheldon Effing Adelson “produce”?”
well, I would have liked to have seen the bout of IBS that he produced in Ol Turd Blossom yesterday … THAT would have been worth the price of admission!!
alex
November 9th, 2012
9:11 am
Jay ,look what have you done:do right and 6 year olds in factories,Goebbel , and “word”— at some point you’ve got to laugh though !
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
9:11 am
“Which was the point Alan Mulally, CEO of Ford, made in his testimony to Congress.
Which somehow never gets quoted by talk radio and conservative tv.”
when I first moved to Hartford, I did some temp work while I was looking for a FT job. One of the companies I worked for manufactured the wire mesh that goes around all the tubes and cable thingies in car engines (among other types of engines) –
a lot of great people worked there – and THAT was who I thought about when I thought about the bailout.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 9th, 2012
9:11 am
WELCOME
In think Shelly does employ 8500 at his casinos, maybe more..but he does enable geometrically more gambling addicts..
I think the DEMS should thank him…I bet his ridiculous message to employees resulted in more DEM votes than otherwise had occurred..
Welcome to the Occupation
November 9th, 2012
9:11 am
Vast right wing: “Our “per person” debt is now about 50% larger than Greece. If we did not print the world’s reserve currency..”
You say that as though it’s a perfectly contingent fact, the fact that we’re the world’s reserve currency. And though it is contingent in a way — it could certainly change some day — the dollar’s role is as firmly entrenched as the reserve currency as ever with no serious challenger on the horizon. For that reason it’s a weird kind of puritanism to say “well we should ACT as though we didn’t have that crutch of being reserve currency”. We just are and therefore it’s perfectly sensible and rational for us to act accordingly. Thus we pay less in interest now as a % of GDP than it has been in about 60 yrs.
Besides, it’s not so much the fact that we’re the reserve currency as that Greece has NO currency of its own, being part of the EMU. This means its like someone put in a straight-jacket and thrown off a cliff. It has no tools at its disposal to avoid economic and political implosion, which is what we’re seeing.
By the way, the “per person” debt is irrelevant. Personal indebtedness is not the root of the problems in Greece.
flagboy?
November 9th, 2012
9:12 am
Debbie, the NAACP thing. . is that an exact quote from somewhere?
Ivan
November 9th, 2012
9:12 am
“The admission about public schools is interesting, confirming my belief that Georgia’s Amendment One is a Trojan horse, and that those Democrats who supported its passage will one day come to rue that decision”
Considering where the state of Georgia ranks nation wide in education, pretty much anything is an improvement.
alex
November 9th, 2012
9:13 am
add: usinUK, IBS and Turd Blossom, you’ve given voice to……
ByteMe - Got ilk?
November 9th, 2012
9:13 am
I have a strong suspicion that it’s not a cliff…it’s more like the edge of a curb. But if they don’t do anything about it in time…we’ll find out.
The “cliff” is likely a recession lasting about 6 quarters taking about 3-4% out of the economy. That’s the numbers I’m seeing from my research. Not such a cliff at all.
And the new “normal” will be one with a government surplus to spend on infrastructure AND lower interest rates (because the government won’t be pushing so many bonds into the marketplace).
Obama has to give up on “no tax increases for the middle class”, though. Just like Republicans have to give up on “no tax increases period”. Once we get past that hurdle, the horse trading can begin in earnest.
Nah, I don’t expect compromise to happen so easily.
Marc
November 9th, 2012
9:14 am
Jay you can stop lying Obama got re-elected. Successful bailout of the auto industry? GM is still on the hook for $26,000,000,000.00 and unless their stocks doubles in value will never pay us back, The Volt, Obama’s car of choice, has had manufacturing interrupted twice due to lack of demand. GMAC, now Ally Bank, is on the hook for even more.
Why aren’t you critiquing Obama and the Democrats? Are they always right? Reading your blog you would think so. You act as if it’s all the Republicans fault when Obama’s had 4 years 2 of them with control on the House and Senate.
JAY WHY AREN’T YOU TALKING ABOUT LIBYA? You have CNN and Fox doing it but NO ONE else.
independent thinker
November 9th, 2012
9:14 am
Here’s why the GOP lost big time:
JP -”"”"”"”"”"”Jay,
Why do you only write columns about the GOP and what’s wrong with them…instead of writing about what’s right with Dem party? Just like O’s campaign, run on the opponents weaknesses and not your own strengths…of course, he couldn’t run on his own record!”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”
Mr. JP- Democrats did run on their own record and strengths but people like you were so blinded by the lies, hypocrisy and Faux news and Limbaugh garbage you could not see trees from the forest.
1. Unlike the GOP the Dems presented a United front with former presidents, and all levels of politicians having a united message
2. Obama did have an impressive record with his handling of three wars , and a busted economy which he rescued from a depression and brought the economy back to where it was before he took office . No other president faced such a challenge- None.
3. His opponent was unqualified to be president with a myriad of conflicts of interest and questionable finacial dealings that would have been clearer if he did not hide his tax returns;
4. GOP made it clear that it had an outright hatred towards women. Just mention Sandra Fluke to them and they go beserk. To put the ultrasound governor in charge of the platform witha strict no abortion position said it all.
5.Democrats figured out how to overcome obscene spending by big corporate donors with people power on the ground.
6. Just listen to the hysterical and psychotic comments yesterday of Rove (”Democrats suppressed the vote”), O’ Reilly (the country is governed by people who want to give away free stuff) and Coulter (”we are past the tipping point”) and then listen to the real Romney on the 47% tape and you will see why the GOP is in serious trouble- they should have disavoed these morons every step of the way not embraced them and Bush’s failed Neocons.
7.Democrats care about veterans wounded by Bush’s insane wars – Republicans do not -never got a mention by Romney. If they did care, then let Queen Anne (”We gave you people all the information you need”) join Michelle and Jill Biden in visiting and assisting wounded veterans. She can and her husband start tomorrow. And while they are at it do a GOP fundraiser for Sandy victims instead of advising the 1% on how to hide money in the Caymans like W. did.
But of course lieke most Southerners it all comes down to racial politics —GOP since Nixon can’t live without that white southern voter
stands for decibels
November 9th, 2012
9:14 am
Adelson produces jobs…
…which are directed toward activities that produce nothing of tangible value. Nothing.
You know all the ire directed at “government” like it’s nothing but a necessary evil? That’s more or less my feeling about those service industries that essentially shuffle paper and money around. In Adleson’s case it’s especially grotesque, of course.
We need a skeleton crew of paper pushers and hucksters to sell stuff, is all. We need the masses mobilized to create actual stuff, whether it’s virtual (software) or real-world (hardware).
speaking of which, I gotta go do that now. Laterz.
Paul
November 9th, 2012
9:14 am
Stevie Ray
I agree about the politicians’ part. As individuals and as parties. No question there.
As far as the other – I can look right here in Texas and see it at a local level. We have some very, very, very well to do communities here. Property tax rates in some of those communities are much lower than in poor communities, but because of the value of the property, enough money pours in that school systems could splurge on all sorts of things (like, I kid you not, teak-lined whirlpool tubs in the football locker rooms). Then when the challenges began to equalize funding throughout the state (required by the state constitution) the howls of protest and fighting began. By the wealthy districts.
That’s a the lowest level. I think it’s the same kind of thing as one goes up the system. The funny thing is, all the special breaks and exemptions and deductions and all they got put in place over the years – they can make seemingly logical, nice sounding arguments why those perks are absolutely necessary to the very existence of the US of A.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:15 am
“Considering where the state of Georgia ranks nation wide in education, pretty much anything is an improvement”
Including properly funding the educational system…instead of CUTTING funding? You’re like a guy that cuts off his nose and then blames his face for losing it.
Welcome to the Occupation
November 9th, 2012
9:16 am
Stevie Ray: “I think the DEMS should thank him…I bet his ridiculous message to employees resulted in more DEM votes than otherwise had occurred..”
I think you’re right. The behavior of many of these tycoons and big bosses became quite a caricature. Although I’m not real sure that was much of a factor among wider swaths of the voting public outside of a relatively small group who follow politics closely.
Mr. Trump couldn’t have helped.
JF McNamara
November 9th, 2012
9:16 am
“the classic paradigm of the white, college-educated Republican voter. ”
Even in self reflection, they can’t get it right. This is simply not true. Republicans won in the least educated states. Their typical voter is less educated than those that vote Democrats.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 9th, 2012
9:17 am
“The Kübler-Ross model, commonly known as The Five Stages of Grief, includes denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.”
This is what the GOP is going through, so they will work it out eventually…One would hope, for their sakes, that they get to “acceptance” before 2014, though…otherwise they might have to repeat the process…
H.E. Pennypacker
November 9th, 2012
9:18 am
Marc,
Why is Jay not critiquing Obama?
After the Super Bowl, do you read many articles on what is wrong with the team that won?
The GOP has lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential Elections, might be time to huddle up.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 9th, 2012
9:18 am
alex – oh, we point and laugh … don’t you worry – the GOP has given us P-Lenty to point and laugh at in the last 96 hours … (starting with Turd Blossom’s meltdown on FOX)
Butch Cassidy (I)
November 9th, 2012
9:19 am
Marc – “Why aren’t you critiquing Obama and the Democrats?”
Because they won.
Obama won, now what......
November 9th, 2012
9:20 am
Affirmative action needs to go away! Don’t use your color to get ahead!
JamVet
November 9th, 2012
9:21 am
…bush is out 8 YEARS, 8 years, move on…
THAT is the first ingredient for your now patented political recipe for failure.
Pretend that…
1) Neo-conservatism doesn’t stink on ice
2) You neocons have owned up to that fact
3) You are committed to changing your failed, fake conservative ways.
As long as you cling to this model, the Bush legacy remains toxic.
And the GOP’s chances of taking the White House are right up there with UGA winning a national football championship…
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:21 am
“Because they won”
I find it quite amusing how often someone of the “party of personal responsibility” comes here and wants Jay to do their job for them
DannyX
November 9th, 2012
9:26 am
“This is what the GOP is going through, so they will work it out eventually…One would hope, for their sakes, that they get to “acceptance” before 2014, though…otherwise they might have to repeat the process…”
The Kubler-Ross model does not apply here. Republicans have their own model for dealing with grief.
1..Denial
2..Anger
3..Depression
4..Anger
5..Denial
6..Anger
(They don’t negotiate.)
straitroad
November 9th, 2012
9:27 am
JamVet
November 9th, 2012
8:27 am
I disagree and haven’t up until this point in my life been able to understand where folks such as yourself are coming from. The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others. All of the energy spent trying to acquire more things from someone else just baffles me and I’ll probably never get how someone can live their life doing this without a proper sense of shame. I suppose it comes from upbringing or lack there of. There was a time in this country when most people had a sense of pride in being self sufficient and over time, with the help of political handouts, a large portion of the population has traded self sufficiency for dependency without a care for how it is provided or who has to be the provider.
RW-(the original)
November 9th, 2012
9:28 am
When you consistently use idiotic terminology like “statist”…
How about just the terminology “pull the lever?”? I’ve been voting for a lot longer than I’d like to think about and I’ve never pulled a lever to vote yet.
/and I don’t know where that freaking question mark goes so I covered all bases….
GT
November 9th, 2012
9:28 am
This is like dealing with a teenage child, the GOP is in such denial, and they miss the whole point of why they lost. They make up issues with themselves, just like they do against us, to shine a better light on their faults. They still think robbing the bank is a good idea and they think the way they communicate the bank robbery is not resonating well with America. If they could tune up their delivery a little they could still rob that bank.
Americans of 2012 do not like government interfering in their personal lives, but the right thinks that is on their selection of subject matter. They want state rights over federal government until you start on gay marriage then they start the shuffle. They don’t want federal government in their small businesses but they don’t want liquor served or sold on Sunday. We spend trillions on prisons and law enforcement, not to mention the violence in Mexico, for a lost war on drugs, so we can prevent individual freedom, yet they can’t see the moral obligation to feed, house and give healthcare to the poor. They bring their religions down by having them associated with their lesser characters, reinterpreting the word so it matches their politics, making religion look like a tool for the greedy.
They deny their mean spirit toward women and minority by parading tokens for public display insulting the matter even worse. They have this sense of humor that only tobacco stained mouths could repeat, with secret codes based on a foundation of bigotry. The results are underemployed and paid women, who have to go though a white male toll booth to get anything done including the own health issues. A Latino population that has the fear of being removed in the middle of the night by fire breathing right wing presidential candidates who in South Carolina and Tampa debates ,with red meat audiences booing and cheering like a lynch mob, gave graphic detail of what they thought of and would do with illegals. And now when their party looks like it just got hit by Katrina they want to think they were misunderstood.
straitroad
November 9th, 2012
9:29 am
“I find it quite amusing how often someone of the “party of personal responsibility” comes here and wants Jay to do their job for them”
Doggone, what is wrong with personal responsibility? Do you think it’s preferable to be irresponsible?
jconservative
November 9th, 2012
9:29 am
The president and the Democratic Senate want more revenue. They will get it starting 12/31/2012 when the Bush and Obama tax cuts expire. Nobody has to vote on any bill, nobody has to sign a bill. It is a done deal.
The president and the Republican House want spending cuts. They will get their spending cuts on 1/2/2013 when the sequestered spending cuts go into effect. $110 Billion the first year. And, like the revenue increase, nobody has to vote for anything or sign anything. It is a done deal.
And oh, Obamacare? It is written in stone and will go into effect in 2014 as planned. No one has to vote for anything or sign anything. It is a done deal.
If nothing passes either house of Congress both sides will have something to crow about to their bases. Everybody will be happy? Correct?
You do not like the above? How bad do you not like it? Do you hate it enough to compromise on “This” in order to get “That”?
Republicans have lost the popular vote for president 5 out of the last 6 elections. Do they realize they have a message problem?
Democrats lost 5 of 6 presidential popular votes between 1968 and 1988. They realized they had a problem and they moved toward the center and won 5 of the next 6. Is there a message here for Republicans?
Paul
November 9th, 2012
9:31 am
RW-(the original0
I wouldn’t advise using that as a pick-up line….
Mary Elizabeth
November 9th, 2012
9:31 am
I should also have stated (within my 8:44 am post), that ALEC has been, and is now, composed of, and funded by, billionaires such as the Kock Brothers, as well as wealthy corporate CEOs, who have worked stealthily with Republican legislators in Republican dominated states, to advance a financial agenda which favors the wealthy of this nation over interests of the middle and working classes. The middle class has lost ground for decades not simply because of global technological changes, but also because of the financial framework design and intent of these wealthy ideologues. I am grateful that an astute president will be working to realign this out-of-balance financial framework in our nation to make it become one that is more equitable for the working and middle classes.
(FYI, Georgia’s Republican legislative sponsors of HR 1162 which became Amendment One, Rep. Jan Jones and Rep. Edward Lindsey, are both members of ALEC. And, the video clip in support of Amendment One, of which I wrote on Jim Galloway’s blog yesterday, was underwritten by a group with Edward Lindsey as a leader, which was mentioned in the last few seconds of that video clip.)
http://www.alecexposed.com/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
Skip
November 9th, 2012
9:31 am
Cons just lost a cool billion, you really want to trust them with the checkbook?
Tundra Dude
November 9th, 2012
9:32 am
Why is Jay not critiquing Obama?
Usually it’s only plane crashes that make the news…..not all those that landed
safely at the airport …..
indigo
November 9th, 2012
9:32 am
Looks like most of the school kids who were busy here trashing Obama have gone back to the schoolroom. No doubt their Christian Academy instructors are giving them fresh indoctrination as to who to attack and what to say.
JP
November 9th, 2012
9:32 am
Ind Think
Thanks for your long and thoughtful response…but it is completely wrong. Really tired of O boo hoping that it is all Bush W’s fault. Reagan never did that…and he was left with a bigger mess by Carte
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:32 am
“The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others”
So are we to take it then that you disapprove of things like tax breaks to attract new business, and subsidies for farm goods, and tax breaks for things like pollution mitigation equipment, and oil company subsidies. That kind of supporting one group via the labor of the rest of us?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
9:32 am
SfD — “Before I head into the actual topic at hand, I have to ask–who, exactly, reads and/or is influenced by the National Review? I know it’s about as traditional as conservatism gets (although really, compared to liberal journals-of-record like TNR, or the Nation it’s still immature — in more ways than one)”
I subscribed to it up until about 1998.
Mary Elizabeth
November 9th, 2012
9:32 am
Correction: Koch Brothers, correct spelling
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
9:33 am
Taxing the “rich” defined as amounts over $250 at 100% would run the goverment for 140 days or so…of course that is unrealisitic…but telling…
Aww geez… how many strawmen have died on that funeral pyre???? You cannot expect a rational discussion when you start of with such an irrational and obviously unfactual statement. Nobody’s made the argument to tax anybody at 100%, so to suggest that as an idea is male bovine fecal matter.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:33 am
“Doggone, what is wrong with personal responsibility”
Reading comprehension fails you today I see.
JamVet
November 9th, 2012
9:33 am
All of the energy spent trying to acquire more things from someone else just baffles me…
No it doesn’t.
You Reaganbots have selective outrage.
The wealthiest, the most powerful and the less deserving getting the biggest handouts, bailouts, subsidies, give aways and tax dodges/shelters does not bother you one iota.
Thus we have the current model – trickle down poverty and a de facto and de jure American plutocracy.
But you know this.
Gotta go and do my part to keep that 1% comfy!
Later, peeps!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 9th, 2012
9:34 am
Yes, it is a trojan horse.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 9th, 2012
9:35 am
All of the energy spent trying to acquire more things from someone else just baffles me
Ok, why do you go to work every day if it’s not to accumulate?
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
9:35 am
Paul: Yeah, I’m beginning to think a lot of conservative, free market, “get government off my back and let us rig the system for ourselves’ types really do hate competition.
I could have told you that a long time ago.
RW-(the original)
November 9th, 2012
9:36 am
I wouldn’t advise using that as a pick-up line….
Paul,
I realize it’s a curse, but when one is as witty, charming, handsome and irresistible as I am no pick up lines are required.
straitroad
November 9th, 2012
9:39 am
Doggone/GA,
I think a simple flat tax with zero deductions an zero tax breaks would be better but no, I don’t generally disapprove of tax breaks that are incentives for business models that are sound and don’t favor one group over another. I am referring to direct welfare payments to able bodied people.
skipper
November 9th, 2012
9:40 am
The hard-right zealotry that has overtaken the Repubs has cost them. As bad as it hurts to say this, even the far-left wacks of the Dems will somewhat compromise…..the far right has approached the lunatic-fringe, and it cost them. That stupid SOB who made the rape/pregnancy/God intended comments is what is now representing the far right. Like a guy I work with says, “That ain’t good!” I am a true independent who leans moderate-conservative. However, I must admit that the far-right zealotry (or perceived over-zealotry) has just cost them an election. And truthfully, I think that is too bad. I think Romney would have done a good job. The wacks in his party cost him……gotta mend bridges now.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
9:41 am
straitroad — “I disagree and haven’t up until this point in my life been able to understand where folks such as yourself are coming from. The federal government was never intended to support one group via the labor of others.”
WTF do you think a church is?
The minister supports himself “via the labor of others.” What does the minister produce? Why does he not labor? And why aren’t you complaining about *that* kind of taking?
USA Patriot
November 9th, 2012
9:42 am
JB writes – “The successful government bailout of the auto industry, alleviating economic security for a million or more workers, helped the Obama ticket immensely among white voters in states such as Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.” The government did not bail out the “auto industry”, they bailed out GM (and screwed the bond & stock holders while giving most of the company to the unions), and they bailed out Chrysler (which was promptly bought by an Italian company, Fiat). Ford Motor Company didn’t get one cent from the government and is surviving on their own.
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:42 am
“I am referring to direct welfare payments to able bodied people”
You would prefer to see them begging in the streets maybe? If not, then what is you alternative when businesses AREN’T HIRING?
It all, and always, comes down to this: government will step in when the PRIVATE SECTOR FAILS TO STEP UP.
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
9:42 am
We need a skeleton crew of paper pushers and hucksters to sell stuff, is all. We need the masses mobilized to create actual stuff, whether it’s virtual (software) or real-world (hardware).
^^^^This!!!!!
straitroad
November 9th, 2012
9:42 am
“Reading comprehension fails you today I see.”
Doggone, it would be nice to have a conversation free of these kind of remarks. It was just a simple question.
Redcoat
November 9th, 2012
9:43 am
The majority of people now have been led to believe that this country runs on auto pilot……that the government has a big deep well of unending money….and if you don’t have as much as your neighbor, you are a victim. Someone (just don’t call me names and say I’m wrong) prove me wrong.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 9th, 2012
9:43 am
Mary Elizabeth
November 9th, 2012
9:32 am
While your spelling may have been wrong, I deemed it quite apt.
mystery person is
November 9th, 2012
9:43 am
Obama won, now what…… is really USMC
Rightwing Troll
November 9th, 2012
9:44 am
One of the grand ironies (and they are legion) here is the fact that while they consistently and loudly deride “statists”, the state is the first place wingnuts turn to when they seek to remedy their own imaginary injustice… charter schools for instance, or transvaginal probes…
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:44 am
“Ford Motor Company didn’t get one cent from the government and is surviving on their own.”
AND Ford Motor Co fought HARD FOR those bailouts. They knew how much it would hurt them if the other companies went belly up.
Brosephus™
November 9th, 2012
9:45 am
RW @ 9:28
The question mark goes inside the quotation marks.
Georgia
November 9th, 2012
9:46 am
Well, the Right is certainly angry. Mrs. Imus had an on-air fit yesterday. I understand totally. Imagine being married to a shriveled and wrinkled hemmorhoid like Don Imus. Now Mrs. Imus was a very beautiful young woman not long ago, but she has gone to seed. Couples, like people and dogs, tend to resemble one another after a while. Mrs Imus is out of control too. Just what IS the half-life of an F bomb on the air? Oh, did I mention the Right is angry?
The entire right has become unhinged. Their bargaining may still be playing out, and evolve into something really nasty. They may start trying to bribe the left with charitable donations, beads, or even legislation in return for the state of Wyoming or the Dakotas. The KKK has long wanted a country of their own. Perhaps the Right and the KKK can achieve their independence. Isn’t the old nuclear testing grounds out west still available? What’s the half-life of an H bomb? Oh, did I mention the Right is angry!
Mama Says
November 9th, 2012
9:46 am
Taxpayer says
“You’re welcome. And contrary to popular Republican opinion, taxes do pay the government bills, not tax cuts”
That is the entire problem with the democrats way of thinking. Rather than applying common logic to the equation they apply illogical thinking and call it good math.
Lets see, budgets in normal instances act like this; income 50,000, expenses 60,000= reduce spending so you can balance your budget and live within your abilities or seek more income. Those who face this in everday life may very well have to work 2 or even 3 jobs to pay that debt down (incresing income) BUT they never say to themselves ‘lets work 2-3 jobs to balance the budget and while i do it lets increase sepnding to $70,000. Its an oximoron to apply the I cant afford to live so lets spend more- logic democrats prescribe too. I suspect that 90% of individual democrats do not live that way. Why then do you insist that the government function that way ?
My answer ? you do because its not a financial matter that you have to face each day. Very different from picking which bill you can pay each month or running up one card to pay the other in order to keep the lights on (i have been there and it aint fun). I escaped that hole by living under a log. not going out, not wasting money on beer and pizza and using that money to pay what I owed.
It has taken me about 7 years to pay $30,000 in debt off and I could not have done it by going on a spending spree.
Uncle Sam is at home trying to figure out how to buy milk for supper tonight while the dems are out at Houston’s eating steak. All while they piss and moan about how the rich white guys act. They then order a nightcap and slowly make thier way to valet who will bring the cadi around so they can drive to the “nice side of town” and retire to the comfort of their 6 bedroom residence with nice views of the ground scape which highlites the pool waterfall.
The rich republicans are doing the same but we aint trying to act like are the savior as we do it.
and buy the way before i get hit with tax breaks for the rich or high defense spending, I support cutting the defense, it is the right thing to do. I support using that money for real infrastructure improvements but dont preach to me about taxes when the rich pay 70% of them to begin with and stop calling me a racist when every article written about republicans starts out in some way talking about the old white guy party. You dems talk more about race gender and age more than anyone.
The only race and gender that it is acceptable today to openly say derogetory things about are white males. And you couldnt care less if you group them together whit one broad stroke of good old fashion racial bias. You denegrate every white conservative with your general statements. Even when 51% of all whites voted for Obama the first time you still generally use the term white when describing the reasons people oppose Obama. Tell me what color are the 10% of the African Americans that voted against him ? What color are the 25 % of hispanics who did not vote for him ?
General terms and blanketed statements is exactly what a lot you you dems live by. Tell you what since you insist that cons look in the mirror and change why dont you look in the mirror and see who is calling people racist ? My beat is that at least half of you are white–you have no clue that you are helping to make your own lives more difficult, the black person–the real victim of racisim only sees that you are white, and because you insist on telling him that all whites are racist he tends to be suspect of us all. So stop pointing your finger at me as if you are saying ‘no it was him’
Doggone/GA
November 9th, 2012
9:46 am
“It was just a simple question”
It was a loaded question. Go back and read again what I said and see if you can comprehend that I was CRITICIZING those who preach personal responsiblity but DONT PRACTICE IT.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
9:47 am
USA Patriot — “The government did not bail out the “auto industry”, they bailed out GM (and screwed the bond & stock holders while giving most of the company to the unions)”
Tell me — how do you think the GM stock/bond holders would have made out in a liquidation?
And tell me — honestly — that you wouldn’t have blamed Obama for the loss of auto industry jobs, as well as the jobs lost in supply-chain businesses that fed the carmakers’ factories.
straitroad
November 9th, 2012
9:47 am
“You would prefer to see them begging in the streets maybe? If not, then what is you alternative when businesses AREN’T HIRING?”
No, I wouldn’t prefer to see anyone begging in the streets and I don’t personally know anyone who wants to see people begging in the streets. You and I will just have to disagree on this. We have two entirely different perspectives on life. Have a good day.
mystery person is
November 9th, 2012
9:48 am
I wonder how Billy Graham is taking the lost? Did God send him another revelation?
Rightwing Troll
November 9th, 2012
9:49 am
“The government did not bail out the “auto industry”, they bailed out GM (and screwed the bond & stock holders while giving most of the company to the unions),”
Two obvious points:
Had GM and/or Chrysler gone under, the effect would’ve rippled outward and been truly catastrophic. The result would’ve touched many industries and put MILLIONS more out of work than W’s economy did. secondly where was all the wingnut angst when the institutions that colluded with W to decimate our economy were deemed too big to fail and thusly bailed out shirking the stockholders, while at the same time rewarding the people who drove them into the ditch with golden parachutes?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 9th, 2012
9:49 am
Mama Says — “General terms and blanketed statements is exactly what a lot you you dems live by.”
The irony meter is flashing red now.
RW-(the original)
November 9th, 2012
9:49 am
The question mark goes inside the quotation marks
Brosephus,
Are you trying to conjure up OREP? I always thought it went inside, but then I was told that if you were quoting a quote it went outside because the quote wasn’t a part of your own wording in the sentence structure or some such hooey.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 9th, 2012
9:49 am
Obama’s win was bigger than John Kennedy’s in 1960 (303 electoral votes, popular vote margin of 112,827), bigger than Richard Nixon’s in 1968 (301 electoral votes, popular vote plurlaity of 512,000), bigger than Jimmy Carter’s in 1976 (297 electoral votes, popular vote margin of 1,683,247), bigger than George W. Bush’s in 2000 (271 electoral votes and a popular vote loss of 543,816).
http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/obama-bigger-win-kennedy-nixon-carter-or-bush
How you like them apples?
And Florida isn’t even done counting yet…..
Rightwing Troll
November 9th, 2012
9:50 am
“I wonder how Billy Graham is taking the lost? Did God send him another revelation?”
Or another hooker?