Why 2012 election was a message election
In an election year with unemployment hovering at 8 percent and millions of Americans deeply concerned about their future, in a year with no campaign-finance laws to prevent rich conservatives from dumping as much money as they wished into the process, in a year featuring an incumbent who motivated the GOP base by his mere existence, the Republican Party lost.
And it wasn’t just the presidency that they lost. At the beginning of the year, with Democrats forced to defend 23 Senate seats while Republicans defended just 10, GOP leaders were all but certain that they would reclaim Senate control and oust Harry Reid as majority leader. It was an historic opportunity.
Instead, they lost two seats. They lost five seats in the House as well, including, at last count, that of Allen West of Florida and Joe Walsh in Illinois. Michele Bachmann barely survived in a heavily Republican district. (UPDATE: The latest numbers suggest that the GOP will lose seven seats in the House, not five.)
In other signs of a changing America, voters in Maine and Maryland approved measures legalizing gay marriage. In Washington, a measure to legalize gay marriage also appears to have passed. In Minnesota, voters rejected a measure that would ban gay marriage. In Wisconsin, voters elected the nation’s first openly gay person to the Senate. And in Colorado and Washington, voters easily approved the recreational use of marijuana.
Three additional points:
The polls were not skewed. Needing an excuse to explain why the polls were so consistently unfriendly to Republicans, Fox News and the conservative media invented one: The pollsters were conspiring with the mainstream media to defraud conservatives. More specifically, the theory went, polls were showing Democrats outnumbering Republicans by a six- or seven-point margin. There’s no way that could be true, conservatives told themselves.
In one sense, it was the perfect explanation. It appealed to the GOP’s inherent distrust of experts who tell them things they don’t want to hear, and also played to their longstanding anger at the media. Eventually, though, all such explanations get “trued up” against reality. And in reality, Democrats did end up with a six-point turnout advantage over Republicans, just as predicted.
This was not Mitt Romney’s fault. Quite the contrary. From the beginning, Romney was the only GOP candidate who was even faintly plausible as president. Would Newt Gingrich have done better? Rick Santorum? Bachmann? Herman Cain? Rick Perry? Please. The blowout would have been epic.
Yes, Romney did pivot from “severely conservative” to moderate right before the first debate, and some in his party will now try to attribute his defeat to that decision. You know the drill: “He was a RINO, and RINOs always lose.” That easy excuse ignores the fact that Romney made that pivot because his “severely conservative” persona was getting killed in the polls at the time. When he changed, the polls changed. This race was close at the end only because he ditched conservatism and embraced moderation.
But here’s where the evidence gets incontrovertible: Last night, the GOP put up a viable Senate candidate in 17 states; most of those 17 candidates ran well to the right of Romney. If conservatism was a winning message, they should have done better with voters than the moderate Romney did.
The exact opposite proved true. In 12 of those 17 states, Romney outperformed the conservative Senate candidate. In six states, Romney outperformed the GOP Senate candidate by a double-digit margin. In five states, Romney outperformed the Republican Senate candidate by 15 points or more.
And the five GOP Senate candidates who did better in their states than Romney?* Every single one ran as a moderate. Overall, voters rejected conservatism, and “moderate Mitt” deserves great credit for squeezing every vote possible out of a tough situation.
But every vote possible wasn’t enough.
The country has changed; the GOP has not. Republicans lost badly among Latino voters, black voters, gay voters, Jewish voters and women. They once again did quite well among white voters, who comprised 72 percent of the electorate. But that’s down from 74 percent in 2008, which was down from 77 percent in 2004, which was down from 80 percent in 2000.
Does anybody see a trend in those numbers?
But other numbers are just as daunting. In exit polls yesterday, 74 percent of Republican voters said that they believe illegal immigrants should be deported instead of offered a chance at citizenship. That is clearly a core issue for the GOP base. Yet overall, just 29 percent of Americans share that opinion.
How do you convince that 74 percent of Republicans that their party has to change and change pretty dramatically if it’s to compete in the emerging America? How do you convince them that they have to break out of the lily-white political ghetto in which they’ve confined themselves?
It’s going to take leadership. It’s going to take people such as Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal and Jeb Bush and Chris Christie telling hard truths to a base that has often found ingenious ways to avoid hard truths. It’s going to take a willingness to compromise and a willingness to change and a willingness to confront the talk-radio hosts and special interest groups who see no personal benefit to such change.
Overall, the narrowness of the GOP defeat in the presidential race disguises just how significant this election really was. The ground was prepared perfectly for a major GOP victory — everything was in place — and the opposite happened. And it’s not something new. In the last six presidential cycles, the GOP candidate has won a plurality of votes just once. That was George W. Bush in 2004, riding the fumes of his post-9/11 performance.
This was a message election, in terms of both ideology and demography, and from here on out that message is going to be restated louder and louder and louder until the Republican Party finds a way to respond to it.
– Jay Bookman
*The states in question are Connecticut, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Nevada and New Mexico.
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665 comments Add your comment
Partisay
November 7th, 2012
10:35 am
Excellent, excellent article. I have not read any of the postings yet, but I can guess those on the right will attack it and say it’s just not true. I’m sure they will have other excuses. It was spot on.
Escaped from Email Purgatory
November 7th, 2012
10:35 am
The GOP message on jobs, the economy/fiscal responsibility is a good one.
Based on his first term, these issues are clearly not President Obama’s strengths. And he hasn’t shown the slightest interest in remediating his breathtaking ignorance about business and the economy, so I don’t expect him to get religion during his second term.
He certainly has the capacity to acquire the knowledge, but it’s not where his passions lie. He’s an uncompromising social reformer. Health Care reform trumped economic recovery during his first term.
Bipartisanship is as foreign to him as paying income taxes are to his base constituency.
But the extreme stance the GOP takes on gay marriage, abortion and immigration killed Romney yesterday with LGBT, women and hispanic voters.
There is no doubt Republicans need to tweak their message if they aspire to appeal to these groups.
Erwin's cat
November 7th, 2012
10:35 am
A 2% differential in the popular vote is hardly a “mandate” or “clear choice”
Congrats Dems….time it own it…all of it
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 7th, 2012
10:36 am
“But what about the Democrats who got trounced in 2010? Weren’t they also facing a ‘change’ of sorts?”
um. yeah. did you notice the votes last night??? you might want to peruse Jay’s analysis above for a refresher.
as the song goes … it’s a new dawn, it’s a new day, it’s a new life.
and I’m feeeeeelin’ gooooood …
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 7th, 2012
10:36 am
A 2% differential in the popular vote is hardly a “mandate” or “clear choice”
Congrats Dems….time it own it…all of it
Pats by 3.
Where is Izzy today ?
November 7th, 2012
10:36 am
Good Morning Izzy? Its a great day now that oblunder as you say, was re-elected. I hope you have your crying towel because last at 8:41pm you had Romnesia and claim Mitt would win VA, FLA ,Ohio, etc. Just goes to show when you are the party of liars, lying to your base and media comes naturally. You been had, hoodwinked, led astray, bamboozled…Now take that crying towel you stuck up your @$$ after the first debate and wipe your face with it!!
Thulsa Doom
November 7th, 2012
10:36 am
Lotta hate spewing from the left today. Like Moonbat said you would think they would be happy. Or maybe they just know deep down inside that in the next 4 years that we will vault towards 20 trillion in debt with continued sluggish economic growth.
The gf showed me a comment this morning from her Facebook page from a former coworker who said she was looking forward to getting her Obama care. Apparently the woman thinks its more free shyte that she doesn’t have to pay for. Can’t wait to see her comments when she realizes that not only is it going to cost more but that if her employer drops coverage that she will have to pay a fine if she doesn’t purchase it. Can’t wait to see it unfold. But in reading her comment it was sad to see that it was this kind of sheer ignorance that got Obama elected. Gonna be a hilarious 4 years to watch. Just remember. You guys voted for this!
Elliot Garcia
November 7th, 2012
10:37 am
The message has clearly been sent….Nobody cares about jobs or gridlock! It’s all about gay sex and free stuff….
Erwin's cat
November 7th, 2012
10:37 am
My European colleagues have been congratulating me (read Americans) all morning on the O victory…Apparently Mexico could care less
Goldie
November 7th, 2012
10:37 am
“I prefer “Blogenfreude.”
Bwaaaa — I wish I had more sleep last night and could think up these multi-lingual insults this morning! Well done, Libs!
BoogerFling
November 7th, 2012
10:37 am
The message is:
Buckle up… the road’s about to get nasty moving FORWARD!
Hysterical Right Wing Bible Thumpin' Gun Nut
November 7th, 2012
10:37 am
Great News!
Donald Trump said he is getting a complete re-count and has a copy of Obama’s REAL birth certificate!
I told you we would prevail!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
10:38 am
SSi — “I just got through with this – United Health Care cadillac plan is going up 27%”
I freakin’ HATE UHC, but I will give them this; my United rheumatologist is *miles* better than the one I had at Kaiser.
IMO, in most other respects, UHC sucks on toast compared to Kaiser, but I haven’t got a choice any longer.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 7th, 2012
10:38 am
Oh, and Jay you gave the o/u for number of bloggers banned last night as 4 and I took the under.
What did I win?
indigo
November 7th, 2012
10:39 am
Doggone/GA
I’m sorry for your loss.
All you can really do is grieve and cry.
A dog can be the best friend you ever have.
They have all the good qualities of people and none of their bad ones.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
November 7th, 2012
10:39 am
Bottom line here, folks…The MAJORITY of our fellow Americans voted for president Obama, therefore a MAJORITY of Americans liked his view. If you are in the minority, please learn to live with the fact that most Americans don’t think like you. It is just our Democratic system at work. AMERICA! DON”T YOU JUST LOVE IT?
STEVIE RAY
November 7th, 2012
10:39 am
NGA
“The GOP contends that they (and they alone) know what’s good for business, the economy and, hence, the American people. They don’t really care what the American people actually think….or want”.
Tread carefully…lest ye forget the PelosiCare that, despite significant majority against, was suggestive that DEMS know what was better for us…The DEMs also think that a tax increase (im in favor) of $80 billion per year that is already spent is the grand plan…both parties seem to agree that we should continue spending 30% more than we take in annually..
Both are guilty of knowing what is better for us..look where we are..
Welcome to the Occupation
November 7th, 2012
10:39 am
Goldie:
Of course, that’s true, the back and forth of gen and mid-term elections is part of a natural rhythm of the political system. But right now the wild swings we’re seeing from term to term is part of a deeper set of symptoms suggesting a political system that is in deep crisis and with profound problems of representation. Large blocs of people are feeling underrepresented, poorly represented, or not at all represented by the two big capitalist parties of big business.
That problem is not going to get better. It’s going to get much, much worse. The so-called fiscal “cliff” will kick that off.
Erwin's cat
November 7th, 2012
10:39 am
Kam
Spank
November 7th, 2012
10:40 am
Everybody gets taxed more,the poor get poorer,the rich get richer,not one rich person said they were against being taxed more,they can afford it but the middle class on down are the losers,more services less taxes not ever
Doggone/GA
November 7th, 2012
10:40 am
Thanks Indigo
Aquagirl
November 7th, 2012
10:40 am
Can’t wait to see it unfold.
Yeah, I really enjoy watching sick people deprived of healthcare. I plan my life around such enjoyable moments.
Now what were you saying about hatefests?
getalife
November 7th, 2012
10:40 am
“Stocks Plunge As Europe Reveals Bad Economic News”
Austerity caused another recession so it will be like this for a while.
Thulsa Doom
November 7th, 2012
10:41 am
So now that Obama has won exactly what is going to be different in his 2nd term?
Crickets chirping…
getalife
November 7th, 2012
10:43 am
stevie,
ObamaCare won.
It had to be addressed because insurance became unaffordable.
Get over it.
monty
November 7th, 2012
10:43 am
Jay, you are right, obviously the country is emerging, but into what? Legalized dope, same sex marriage,doctor assisted suicide, government controlled healthcare, and on and on we can go. THe loonies are running the assylum. But you know and your readers know, that the greatest generation and all generations since the country was founded would be rolling over in their graves the way we are emerging. Just because everyone is going to hell doesn’t mean I have to go with them. I’ll stay true to my values no matter how far left the culture drifts. Maybe that means my party will never be in power again,so be it, but everyone saying a foot is really 13 inches in length, doesn’t make it so.
SwamiDave
November 7th, 2012
10:43 am
Jay:
To your points:
1) Yep, the polls weren’t skewed. It is disappointing, but more people voted who supported a continuation of the existing policies. Policies which are not and will not improve our economic condition.
2) It is no secret that I supported other candidates for the Republican nomination. That said, Romney would have been a much better option than Obama, but that die is cast and the consequences will result. Since I hold a generally optimistic world view, I ascribe to the outlook that America is a center-right nation with a populace that values freedom over dependence & equality of opportunity over outcomes. Frankly, I do not think that Romney is a very good at articulating that vision & would have preferred a nominee that could.
3) As for changes, this is a different country & recent trends highlight this. There are numbers of issues in our country and there is a marked divide in the proposed solutions to them. One of America’s biggest problems is a complete lack of trust between the two sides. The end result of 2012 is effectively the same government that we started with when the election cycle began & something will have to markedly change for things to be any different. Sequestration, the “Fiscal Cliff”, stagnant growth, growing debt / deficits, & systemic unemployment / underemployment await those who won and are going nowhere on our current path.
Unfortunately, recent events make a past quote foreshadow a potentially bleak reality:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.” -de Toqueville
We shall see.
-SD
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 7th, 2012
10:44 am
“A 2% differential in the popular vote is hardly a “mandate” or “clear choice””
I’m sorry … but exactly WHERE is that HUGE trounce that we were promised by the right??? you know the one … “2010 was a warning shot” … THAT landslide …
where is it again???
SS88
November 7th, 2012
10:44 am
All that you need to know about the election is summed up in these words ~ “The country has changed.” And that is a good thing.
getalife
November 7th, 2012
10:44 am
doomy,
Instead of asking silly questions, start listening to our President.
Thanks.
Doggone/GA
November 7th, 2012
10:45 am
“government controlled healthcare”
when you have to lie to make your point, you have no point
Thulsa Doom
November 7th, 2012
10:45 am
Aquagirl,
Can u point out where specifically I am applauding sick people not getting health care? That’s not what I’m laughing about. What I’m laughing about is the look on peoples faces when they realize they’re not getting more free shyte after all.
clem
November 7th, 2012
10:45 am
reading conserv comments illustrates clearly why they lost and likely to lose in future
Alex
November 7th, 2012
10:45 am
I see the making of the left overplaying their hand, do not be fooled the country is NOT happy with Obama and his economic policies, the right was too overloaded with social conservatives that do NOT reflect a changing America. This election has given the far right a wake up call, will they answer it?-I don’t know . To Kamachk, Granny, Joe, your anger and vitriole still hangs in the air like sewer effluent, disappointing really……
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 7th, 2012
10:46 am
Obama just signed an executive order banning speedos.
Same old failed whines from our conned failure prognosticators demanding attention.
monty
November 7th, 2012
10:46 am
The dollar fell against the euro when the election results were announced. Wrap your brains around that one, if you can.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
November 7th, 2012
10:46 am
“So now that Obama has won exactly what is going to be different in his 2nd term? ”
he’s not running for reelection.
Goldie
November 7th, 2012
10:47 am
Yes, Corbin Sharpe. I love America! She keeps on kickin’, flaws and all!
ad
November 7th, 2012
10:47 am
Nunna – You’ve just illustrated the problem with the GOP’s thesis on things. Yes, there are people who are “moochers,” but MOST people want to be productive. When Romney labeled 47% of the country as unimportant, he was including a ton of hard working people who just don’t make enough money to owe income taxes. Those are the people serving in our military, picking our crops, working in our food service industry and, in general, keeping civilization functioning, while barely making enough to get by. The right called Obama divisive and then turned around and thought they could win while berating half the country. Stupid.
clem
November 7th, 2012
10:47 am
why does a slightly center right country elect a dem for prez and increase numbers in senate? with still high unemployment and everyone looking over their shoulder?
SwamiDave
November 7th, 2012
10:48 am
Corbin:
“AMERICA! DON”T YOU JUST LOVE IT?”
Yep, just like I love my kids even when they make the wrong decision. In the same way, I work with them to pick up the pieces, understand that their decisions have consequences, and try to help them make better decisions the next time.
-SD
Alex de Toqueville Trebek
November 7th, 2012
10:48 am
The country has changed.
The Republican party has not and has withered away and died.
STEVIE RAY
November 7th, 2012
10:49 am
JOE,
Interesting commentary on lack of proper ID…I’m not sure it is as expensive, given our governments concept of money of course, as you may think…
Per AARP, there are 21 million who do not have picture ID which is 11% of senior population..it may cost a 5 billion tops if we include the rest of those who citizens but still without ID….if we have to borrow 30%, then the outstanding principal and interest need to be accounted for..of course we could offset this with estimated $5.6 billion for getting rid of the dollar and going with coin:-)
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-10-24/dollar-enters-deficit-debate/50898164/1
Money well spent IOHaving a driver’s license or photo identification card is commonplace for most Americans, but about 11 percent of adult citizens — more than 21 million people — lack a valid, government-issued photo ID, according to a study by the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law.
Get Real
November 7th, 2012
10:49 am
I am seeing the message in the market today….CRASH; off to meet with financial advisor before everything I have worked for is taken away by our new entitlement driven society….what a shame
DannyX
November 7th, 2012
10:50 am
USinUk…”I’m sorry … but exactly WHERE is that HUGE trounce that we were promised by the right???”
Lol. That Republican landslide that would give Republicans the Presidency, Senate and House, ended up giving us a Democratic President, 2 additional Democratic Senate seats, and +5 Dem House seats.
Republicans, you may now spike the football!
Regnad Kcin
November 7th, 2012
10:50 am
“why does a slightly center right country elect a dem for prez and increase numbers in senate? with still high unemployment and everyone looking over their shoulder?”
I know, I know!!!!!
Because the “dem” was as close to “center right” as makes no difference, and nobody could tell just WHAT the other candidate was about!
monty
November 7th, 2012
10:50 am
Doggone
Are you naive or just stupid?
ATLien
November 7th, 2012
10:50 am
Republicans are just flat out of touch with the way the country is moving. Increasing diversity increasing social tolerance. Republicans social values and reliance on bigoted older white males are going the way of the dodo. Wake up or face obscurity (hopefully the latter).
The funny thing is they started to debate this briefly last night on Fox News…..Fox News is a major perpetrator of this bigoted, ignorant and intolerant POV. The SOUTH was lock step for Romney (though we await Florida’s results). Is there correlation b/w the south and racism and social conservatism?!. Of course! Hence your resounding defeat in an election that could have been won
Very happy for your continued stupidity and I hope that your party and the factions that focus on a bigoted intolerant way of life fade into obscurity.
FORWARD!!!!!
AmericaShrugged
November 7th, 2012
10:51 am
Thanks Jay. Now tomorrow will you please explain the message behind 55% of the House and 60% of the Governors being Republican?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
10:51 am
Flagboy — “Joe – So, once everyone has a card, that’s it?”
New cards would have to be issued on an ongoing basis as Americans’ families grow. And, of course, there will always be illegal immigration and lost cards will have to be invalidated (and replacements issued).
“What happens to people who come into the country afterward? Are they deported?”
Same thing that happens now. They visit under the terms of whatever visa they have. If they stay and obey the laws and regulations, they can obtain work authorization (and their card would only be good for that; they couldn’t use it to vote). Foreign professionals who come here temporarily to work (e.g. in technical fields) would receive work authorization as part of their visa, so they’d get a card that *only* entitled them to work (not to vote or do anything else) for the *approved* duration of their stay. When their authorization runs out, their card stops working.
“And what if they come into this country, live for a year and have children? What happens to that family?”
Existing law would be followed. You seem to have an issue with existing law in this area; my idea doesn’t address that; it’s merely a tool to help enforce laws and limits that are already on the books. Of course, in the case of *changes* to those laws, my idea would still be a useful tool.
“I don’t have an issue with this plan. I’d argue that we have the ability to do the same thing now if someone actually had the stomach to do it. I mean, i’m sure it’s easy to fake SS#’s, but it might be the same with fake a national ID card number or something. There would be a ton of specifics to hammer out, but that’s a given with any plan.”
Again, this would need to be high-tech and difficult to forge. And I’d make forgery or fraud pertaining to these cards a *serious* Federal felony.
“I think it’s a losing battle trying to “find” illegals who are here now.”
I agree. It would be cost-prohibitive to find and deport them.
“But something has to happen with continued illegal immigrants coming across the border. But I honestly don’t think the Democrats have the stomach to make a concerted effort to stop this. Maybe you disagree with me on that.”
I think we do, and I think the GOP is more interested in making illegosos the target of their efforts, rather than the employers who give them a *reason* to come here. Develop a system where employers stand to incur *serious* penalties for violating the law, and the jobs dry up. And when the jobs dry up, illegosos stop coming. But if prospective immigrants *know* they can benefit by working through the system and getting temporary work authorization (and employers know that, too), then we bring everyone in from the cold, PLUS we gain a measure of control over the system.
Frankly, I think that all sides and all interested parties benefit from that.
St Simons
November 7th, 2012
10:51 am
jm- Dow down 222
double secret mystic Native american advice – buy low, sell high
that’ll be $250, i don’t take checks
Welcome to the Occupation
November 7th, 2012
10:51 am
Get Real: “I am seeing the message in the market today….CRASH”
Get real? How about you get a clue instead? As I said above, it’s nothing to do with the US election, but Draghi’s announcement today concerning contagion in the Euro Zone, affecting the German economic outlook.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 7th, 2012
10:52 am
So now that Obama has won, exactly where is all the talk about Elmer Fudd defeating him easily?
Crickets chirping…
Halftrack
November 7th, 2012
10:52 am
This is a win by the Media for Obama. But what did they win? Our Country will be worse off by the end of the next 4 years.
Alex
November 7th, 2012
10:52 am
to all: in MY opinion (as if that matters), the ideas of swammi and escape from purgatory are very realistic, rational and historically sound, read them…or you can be like Kamchak……..
de Touqueville-doesn’t get ANY better than that!
Mama Says
November 7th, 2012
10:53 am
Generally agree Jay however its hard to accept the message from you when you start it out with a typical left wing lie. The rich conservatives dumping money ? You put that out there like there are no rich liberals dumping money into the races.
Another problem with your thesis is that it assumes that conservatisim as you put it is not liked. It was not conservatisim that was the problem, it was extreme comments and thoughts by some conservatives which enabled you guys to argue the old “see i told you so” BS.
To act like Romney or McCain were extreme cons in the last two cycles is stupid. The cons could not have nominated two more moderate conservatives than those two. Romney was no right wing neo con and you know it. He was a moderate who passed a state wide healthcare bill and worked with a very unbalanced legislature in that state.
His needed to appear more conservative to the republican base, no different than the need Obama himself used in order to beat Hillary.
You libs know Romney wasnt going to kill Obama Care and you know he cant outlaw abortions. You also know tha in truth, he agrees with 98% of Obamas approach to world events.
Does the right need to moderate the overall message ? Surely. However the redefining efforts of our moderate canidates, by the left, played a large part in the results. Could Romney get nominated by arguing for heathcare and open borders ? No ! but Obama could not get elected openly agreeing with Bush on national security, So he acted as if he didn’t. Once in office he moderated that stance.
The problem for cons is that for us it’s a right or wrong world. If the law says you have to follow a legal process to enter the country then thats what you need to do. If the law says marraige is between a man and a woman thats what it is. To liberals, laws need to modified when disagreed with. Generally cons think they should just be enforced.
The cons have two big issues before them at this point. They have to reconcile the constitution with the Bible (and that may not occur) and they have to understand that moderate compromise is required. We have the economic base to win that part of a national discussion, we need to reach out to minorities and find common ground on social issues. When we can moderate to support abortion in certain circumstances we will be more in line with African Americans, when we can support a immigration policy that isnt so black and white we will have the hispanics.
The libs should careful. This path to the future is potentially just as damning for you guys. If we conservatives can push out the old guy party leaders and talk to the minority folks of this country like they are people, your party will die. But then again we havent been able to do that as of yet.
but if we ever do it I have no idea what the liberal argument could be.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
10:53 am
Doom — “So now that Obama has won exactly what is going to be different in his 2nd term? ”
Nothing; y’all will still complain about him.
STEVIE RAY
November 7th, 2012
10:53 am
JOE,
My bad..I was assuming a net cost of $100 per..but once we add the vigorous for contractors and other leeches, I understated estimated cost..perhaps materially..as you likely assumed I the $100 per is a rectal estimate…
Welcome to the Occupation
November 7th, 2012
10:53 am
Clem, Regnad Kcin: “why does a slightly center right country elect a dem for prez …. / Because the “dem” was as close to “center right” as makes no difference”
Light bulb starting to come on?
As I said above, quoting Pete Beinart fr last night: Yes, America is a “center-right” nation, and that’s why the center-right party – the DEMOCRATIC party – is winning.
DannyX
November 7th, 2012
10:54 am
“monty”
Yet another new name around here today. Well, today is Republican change your name day.
Adam
November 7th, 2012
10:54 am
Liberalism won pretty handily last night. Just thought I’d point that out again. And no, not because Obama was re-elected. He’s only psuedo-liberal. Pot legalization, same sex marriage legalization, newer taxes being approved, etc etc. For the record, forcing people to BUY health care was the conservative Heritage Foundation’s idea, so any ballot measures meant to repudiate that, that won, actually repudiate conservatism. And also have no effect.
DownInAlbany
November 7th, 2012
10:54 am
I’ve eaten my crow this morning. It’s not tasty…even with salt and pepper. The people have spoken, I accept that. I do not agree with Obama’s policies. I think he has a misguided vision of what this great country should be. He is, though, the president for the next 4 years. I will support him when I agree and criticize when I don’t.
Have a blessed day!
Jackie
November 7th, 2012
10:54 am
@monty
The “problem” may not be as you perceive.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomberg/article/Dollar-Falls-Versus-Yen-After-Election-Draghi-4015836.php
Shawny
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
The message is that if a party puts in a weak candidate that lost to a weaker candidate 4 years ago (McCain), then they will lose.
DOW down big. Gold (hedge against inflation) up. Dollar value down.
Companies replacing FT workers with PT ones so that they do not have to cover them with insurance or pay the fine.
I think the real message may have not been understood by the mob mentality masses.
monty
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
Nanny state, hard to wean people off of freebies. Everyone is entitled. I think it was Maryland that voted to send kids of illegal aliens to school(paid for by you the citizen). Great gig if you can get it!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
S. Dave — “Yep, just like I love my kids even when they make the wrong decision. In the same way, I work with them to pick up the pieces, understand that their decisions have consequences, and try to help them make better decisions the next time. ”
Then you understand the liberal position vis-a-vis our conservative friends and neighbors.
Doggone/GA
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
“Are you naive or just stupid?”
Unanswerable question…since I don’t know what you are talking about.
flagboy?
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
joe – i was just asking. you’re very quick to assume I have an issue with existing law. I was simply asking if that would continue in your plan.
stands for decibels
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
Like Moonbat said you would think they would be happy.
I am. I think it is a little unseemly to go on about it though.
Don't Forget - Obama is a two term president.
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
“So now that Obama has won exactly what is going to be different in his 2nd term? ”
Either the R’s realize that this is a democracy and NOBODY gets their way on everything and start compromising with the dems or they lose the house in 2014.
stands for decibels
November 7th, 2012
10:55 am
carcass SHEETZ.
DannyX
November 7th, 2012
10:56 am
“Halftrack”
Welcome aboard???? Do you know monty?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 7th, 2012
10:56 am
For all the conned now apparently demanding to know what Obama is going to do (cause they were not paying attention to the announced plans during the election when making their informed choices?), tell us….. what are the House republicans going to change to work with the Senate and the President?
We already know that most conned want to continue the same blocking nonsense…. how did that work out for ya?
the cat
November 7th, 2012
10:56 am
Thulsa-it must be hell to be you.
monty
November 7th, 2012
10:57 am
Dannyx
No one’s changed their name, I come around here every once in awhile. Jay can verify that if you like.
stands for decibels
November 7th, 2012
10:57 am
He is, though, the president for the next 4 years. I will support him when I agree and criticize when I don’t.
And DowninAlbany joins my list of decent fellers.
headin’ upstairs.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
10:57 am
S. Ray — “Interesting commentary on lack of proper ID…I’m not sure it is as expensive, given our governments concept of money of course, as you may think…”
You’re only getting part of the discussion; the national ID would need to be tied to a national data infrastructure and have a high level of data security involved. This would have to be a major national project.
I think that guesses have been tossed around involving tens of billions in costs for such a program.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 7th, 2012
10:57 am
…or you can be like Kamchak…:
So, are you campaigning to be the president of the local chapter of my fan club?
Are you promising matching sweatshirts?
Don't Forget - Obama is a two term president.
November 7th, 2012
10:57 am
Compromise – it’s not just for dems anymore.
STEVIE RAY
November 7th, 2012
10:58 am
GETALIFE
I could care less who got elected..you, as usual, have no clue whatsoever on the actuarial estimates of premium to offset loss leaders comprised by newly insured and the fact that we have a shortage of physicans and nurses that will get much worse…the “cuts from squeezing costs out of system” will never happen for reasons you likely will never understand..
As usual, you posts are shallower than a hair folicle…
Alex
November 7th, 2012
10:58 am
@ATLien, now your statement really pushes the discussion FORWARD…..Goodness, same old -if you think diferently you must be a racist -the same old inner city ATLANTA mentality—yes, yes…..
monty
November 7th, 2012
10:59 am
Doggon-”since I don’t know what you are talking about”
Question answered!
Thulsa Doom
November 7th, 2012
11:00 am
De Tocqueville was right. The pigs at the trough are victorious. They will continue to vote themselves goodies right up until when they collapse the whole system. And what will they do then?
STEVIE RAY
November 7th, 2012
11:01 am
JOE,
You may be correct as I’m not remotely familiar with national security costs…the proposals I see are state driven..the states would be responsible for costs to campaign/media, the actual cost to provide and deliver, in some cases, the free ID..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
11:01 am
S. Ray — “the $100 per is a rectal estimate…”
Is that a professional, term, ‘rectal estimate?’
Atlantan
November 7th, 2012
11:03 am
GOP clearly has work to do, but interesting they kept the House. The good news this is now Obama’s and the left – no more blaming Bush. It is time for real leadership, self- responsibility and maybe Harry will write a budget…
Will Jay and the MSM finally tell us the real unemployment rate and discover Benghazi or care? Also I noticed the Afghanistan death count ended in Jan 2009. Why? The Obama rules of engagement are hurting our troops, but who cares?? Also Sandy clean up is a mess, but they are blue states so have at it.
Thulsa Doom
November 7th, 2012
11:03 am
The cat,
Life is still good for me. But then I don’t depend on the gubment.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
11:04 am
Flagboy — “joe – i was just asking. you’re very quick to assume I have an issue with existing law. I was simply asking if that would continue in your plan.”
Well, I did say that you ’seemed’ to have an issue. I simply articulated how you were coming across.
No, my plan wouldn’t change existing law; it would simply be a tool to help enforce existing law and to streamline some processes of national importance (e.g. voting, ensuring only Americans and authorized aliens obtain jobs, etc.)
Aquagirl
November 7th, 2012
11:05 am
What I’m laughing about is the look on peoples faces when they realize they’re not getting more free shyte after all.
Doomy, it’s healthcare. Nobody loves going to the doctor and having medical procedures, that “free shyte” you’re talking about is not beer or speedos. I realize you’re young and have benefited from things like women willing to pay for their own birth control while you take the free ride, so you don’t get it. You think wanting healthcare is like wanting beer, ice cream or an SEC championship.
Apparently this woman has a job and would prefer not to worry about going broke maintaining her health. She joins the legions of entitled parasites jonesing for things like colonoscopies.
If you want to laugh at her because she’s freaking out over serious business go ahead with your @$$ey behavior. Maintain the conservative/Republican sleigh ride to hell. The non-@$$holes of this country are apparently tired of your “whoo-hoo lookit that b!tch suffer haw-haw!” fratboy ways.
So I’ll leave you to your poutfest. It’s guys like you who handed Democrats lots of votes, the DNC can’t buy that kind of advertising for all the money in the world.
Jack
November 7th, 2012
11:05 am
Obama didn’t win the election because he’s qualified to govern. He won because over half of the voters suffer from a Hollywood type of mentality and because of a white-guilt syndrome. I got the message, Bookman, the voters prefer a Muslim in the White House. Good luck with that.
flagboy?
November 7th, 2012
11:06 am
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
10:51 am
“New cards would have to be issued on an ongoing basis as Americans’ families grow. And, of course, there will always be illegal immigration and lost cards will have to be invalidated (and replacements issued).”
_________
I understand where you’re coming from about going after the jobs rather than the people, but there are more benefits from being in the US than just jobs. Education, expanded health care, etc. And, of course, it would be difficult to watch/regulate who is being paid or how people are being paid, so it would still be difficult to stop.
I would agree with basically legalizing all illegals who are here now. But there really needs to be a better effort to make coming across the border more difficult as well. cue laughter and jokes about the border wall
I’d be with the ID card. I’d also want more effort in protecting the borders.
Honest Conservative
November 7th, 2012
11:06 am
Jay, I think you’re right. I hate to say it, but I do. I’m white, upper middle class, suburbanite, Christian, conservative, etc. Typical dyed in the wool GOP voter. But I woke up this morning and realized two sobering truths – 1) “Whitey” is dead. It’s no longer good enough to only cater to the white (shrinking) majority in this country; and 2) this may be the last time we see the GOP as it used to be. I say “may be” because traditions and habits are hard to break, but I think there are enough young up-and-coming GOP stars that are smart enough and articulate enough to induce a change in the party that can appeal to both the conservative base and the changing demographics. You want to talk “hope and change”? Well, hope for change may be all we’ve got at this point if our party is to remain relavent.
barking frog
November 7th, 2012
11:07 am
Just an election. We’ll do half of
it again in two years and all of
it again in four years. May even
elect a native american president
someday.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
11:07 am
Doom — “Life is still good for me. But then I don’t depend on the gubment.”
The cat, don’t let him pull the wool over your eyes. He sells Medicare supplement policies. I’m thinking his bidness is dependent on Medicare continuing to have holes in its coverage.
I’m headed upstairs, Doom; you may berate me there if you wish.
middle of the road
November 7th, 2012
11:08 am
“To act like Romney or McCain were extreme cons in the last two cycles is stupid. The cons could not have nominated two more moderate conservatives than those two.”
You are correct, and if it had been a case of just voting for these two without the baggage of their VP choices and the go-extreme-right shift to appease the party, I would have probably voted for them. But if they can’t CAMPAIGN on a centrist platform, then they AREN’T centrist, no matter what you might say they will or won’t do. If they are that much in the sway of the party, then the party may TELL them how they will act as President.
The Democrat party at least had disagreements in their ranks about Obamacare, so it was not a dictatorial party. They had to compromise among themselves. The Republicans were left out because they REFUSED to compromise.
PartyTime
November 7th, 2012
11:09 am
Fiscal cliff? What fiscal cliff? With Barry still in the saddle for another 4 years, the economy is going to boom/continue to improve (oh wait, did I really say that? continue to improve? … I think I may have exaggerated a bit ….), the unemployment rate will drop dramatically despite going up to 7.9% in October (from 7.8% in Nov), the unemployment rate for Blacks that increased to 14.3% in October (check it out http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm) will surely continue to improve, oops, I meant to say will certainly stage a major turnaround because quite frankly it has only continued to worsen the past couple of years (is the economy really getting better?), taxes will surely drop (oops, I forgot, taxes will go up to help pay for the $16 trillion debt which is projected to rise to over $20 trillion in 4 years ….), but other than that ….. no more blaming W and ………
ENJOY THE RIDE!
flagboy?
November 7th, 2012
11:10 am
Joe – I should have added.
I can agree with the card and naturalization thing, but what effort will be made after that for people who enter the country illegally?
Or will we have to do another round of naturalization in 10-20 years?
STEVIE RAY
November 7th, 2012
11:11 am
JOE,
That is indeed a professional actuarial term…synonyms include: Kentucky Windage, (resulting from) Donkey Pictures, sandbagging with tampons, and the list goes on…
I appreciate your interest in my nerdish very small world..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 7th, 2012
11:11 am
Flagboy — “I understand where you’re coming from about going after the jobs rather than the people, but there are more benefits from being in the US than just jobs. Education, expanded health care, etc. And, of course, it would be difficult to watch/regulate who is being paid or how people are being paid, so it would still be difficult to stop.”
Another part of the card. I did say I was only giving you part of the plan.
The card would *also* serve as an ID/access key for Federal benefits like Social Security, Medicare and the like. Obviously, for resident aliens who only have work authorization, those functions would have to be disabled on their cards.
Perhaps the card could be leveraged to serve as a gatekeeper for some of the other holes you mentioned.
“I would agree with basically legalizing all illegals who are here now. But there really needs to be a better effort to make coming across the border more difficult as well. cue laughter and jokes about the border wall”
What sorts of efforts would you like to see?
“I’d be with the ID card. I’d also want more effort in protecting the borders.”
I’m listening. Tell me your ideas regarding physical border security.
monty
November 7th, 2012
11:11 am
4 more years of no budget being submitted by our Prez. amazing how someone could win by being so inept.