Why can’t you vote over the Internet? MIT explains

While we wait, MIT’s Technology Review raises and then answers an interesting question:

“A decade and a half into the Web revolution, we do much of our banking and shopping online. So why can’t we vote over the Internet?”

Imagine the advantages. No New Black Panthers hovering over your laptop, trying to intimidate you. No Florida governor to refuse to extend early voting. No standing in line in the rain. No offensive Obama mural in the background of your voting place, unless you happened to be the one who put it there.

It turns out the main disadvantage remains security, or the lack thereof. In fact, TR reports, the Department of Defense had planned to allow military personnel overseas to vote via the Internet this year, using a $22 million system developed by Accenture. But an audit found the system vulnerable to cyberattacks.

“The unsolved problems include the ability of malicious actors to intercept Internet communications, log in as someone else, and hack into servers to rewrite or corrupt code. While these are also big problems in e-commerce, if a hacker steals money, the theft can soon be discovered. A bank or store can decide whether any losses are an acceptable cost of doing business.

Voting is a different and harder problem. Lost votes aren’t acceptable. And a voting system is supposed to protect the anonymity of a person’s vote—quite unlike a banking or e-commerce transaction—while at the same time validating that it was cast accurately, in a manner that maintains records that a losing candidate will accept as valid and verified.

Given the well-understood vulnerabilities of networked computer systems, the problem is far from solved, says David Dill, a Stanford computer scientist. “Basically, it relies on the user’s computer being trustworthy. If a virus can intercept a vote at keyboard or screen, there is basically no defense,” Dill says. “There are really fundamental problems. Perhaps a system could be tightened so some particular hack won’t work. But overall, systems tend to be vulnerable.”

And lest you think that such concerns are overwrought or exaggerated:

“The problems of Internet voting were made clear in a trial two years ago, when the District of Columbia set up a system that let voters go online, enter an ID code they’d received in the mail, cast a vote, and get a record of the result. Election officials invited computer scientists to try to hack the system in a mock election.

Alex Halderman, a computer scientist at the University of Michigan, and two grad students accepted that offer—and soon found an error in the source code that “allowed us to completely steal the election,” Halderman said at the Princeton symposium. They were even able to change the choice of candidates that appeared on people’s screens.

Rivest put the matter in plain terms. “I think when we talk about voting over the Internet, my gut reaction says: Why vote over the Internet? Why? Why are you doing this? Why? Really, why? Why? I think you need to ask that question a lot, just like a two-year-old,” he said. “There are other approaches to getting information back and forth that are better, and have better security properties. Voting over the Internet is rarely going to be the best choice. It’s very complicated, and you are asking for trouble. Would you connect your toaster to a high-tension power line? Putting a voting system online is very much like that. Would you invest your pension in credit default swaps? You want to stay away [from] complexity. You want something simple. You are entering a world of attacks and risk that you don’t want to be in.”

– Jay Bookman

141 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

November 6th, 2012
3:33 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 6th, 2012
3:40 pm

Definitely the security is a concern but it is no less a concern with the current electronic voting systems.

Jm

November 6th, 2012
3:42 pm

Amen.

We take our voting seriously, thank heavens. Which is why there is griping and concern over manipulation of any kind.

Plus, how are you going to get to see neighbors you might never otherwise meet?

Actually, the guy next to me in line today wanted to know when we would be able to just text our vote in. I just kind of rolled my eyes and responded: you mean, just like American idol?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

November 6th, 2012
3:45 pm

we just need to go back to the best way to vote…………. only white male landowners………
we grew by leaps and bounds when that was the case

Jm

November 6th, 2012
3:47 pm

While absentee ballots are exposed to lesser but similar risks, I have to ask: why do we really want and need these? Shouldn’t you have to prove extenuating circumstances? A handicapped permit perhaps?

Because my coworker, who has been living in FL for 3 years is PO’d that his parents lost his CA absentee ballot so he can’t vote. And this garbage goes on all the time. Non-residents trying to vote where they used to live, not where they actually do live.

Absentee balloting has gotten too easy IMO.

M

November 6th, 2012
3:48 pm

Even the electronic touch-screen machines give me the creeps.

onlinesavant

November 6th, 2012
3:48 pm

If Estonia can have an internet based federal voting system, there is absolutely NO reason why we here in America can’.t Hell, we INVENTED the damn thing, remember?

East Lake Ira

November 6th, 2012
3:49 pm

Why can’t we just go back to paper and ink?

Jm

November 6th, 2012
3:49 pm

Is it really that hard to take 1 out of every 17,520 hours (2 years) to do your civic duty?

Really? That hard?

Bronco Bahma

November 6th, 2012
3:51 pm

Jm
November 6th, 2012
3:49 pm

Amen, Jm, amen!!

Jm

November 6th, 2012
3:52 pm

If you’re too lazy to take an hour to go vote, you’re too lazy to do the research on candidates and issues.

Which means you shouldn’t be voting anyway.

Better to keep the current system which just ain’t that hard, for what you get.

indigo

November 6th, 2012
3:52 pm

Hackers would have a field day with Internet voting.

And, who the devil is Nate Silver?

Bronco Bahma

November 6th, 2012
3:53 pm

Congrats to all who have voted or will vote today.

To those who won’t vote, stop beotching on blogs, talk radio, at the water cooler, or anywhere else.

Bronco Bahma

November 6th, 2012
3:54 pm

indigo
November 6th, 2012
3:52 pm

He’s the brother of Quick and Hiyo.

Bronco Bahma

November 6th, 2012
3:55 pm

onlinesavant
November 6th, 2012
3:48 pm

“We” or Al Gore?

Regnad Kcin

November 6th, 2012
3:55 pm

“And, who the devil is Nate Silver?”

As we learned yesterday, he’s the love-child of Harry Potter and Hari Seldon…

Regnad Kcin

November 6th, 2012
3:56 pm

“And, who the devil is Nate Silver?”

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

stands for decibels

November 6th, 2012
3:57 pm

Agreed with Jm, although sometimes it takes a lot longer than an hour, and it shouldn’t.

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 6th, 2012
3:58 pm

Even the electronic touch-screen machines give me the creeps

2nd that. When you are done you take your card and exchange it for for a “I’m a Georgia Voter” sticker. My best guess is these are kept somewhere away from a magnet in the event a recount is needed.

Bronco Bahma

November 6th, 2012
3:58 pm

I kind of miss the days when artists would not allow their music to be used for commercialization. Nowadays whenever I hear the song “Anticipation” I think of ketchup.

Regnad Kcin

November 6th, 2012
4:00 pm

“{My best guess is these are kept somewhere away from a magnet in the event a recount is needed.”

I don’t think the data is kept on the card – I think the cards are coded with an identifier that gives access to the machines, then is wiped, re-coded, and used for the next guy.

I could be wrong, though…

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 6th, 2012
4:00 pm

Try 6 or 7 hours.

Remember people in line in Ohio after midnight?

indigo

November 6th, 2012
4:01 pm

Bronco Bahma, Regnad Kcin

Oh, you mean THAT Nate Silver!!

Jm

November 6th, 2012
4:04 pm

Finn

Exception, not the rule

And even so, one day out of 730?

0.14% of your time is too much?

Look before I leap...

November 6th, 2012
4:04 pm

@Jm
Many of us are road warriors and are generally not in our home districts on election day.
It is not a case of taking an hour or so off in order to cast a vote at a live polling place. We would need to incur significant expense and possibly lose an entire day or two in order to remain home for election day.
I don’t want to have some bureaucrat determining each and every election cycle whether or not I meet some arbitrary criteria in order for me to exercise one of my fundamental constitutional rights.

Absentee voting is my only option in most cases.

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 6th, 2012
4:04 pm

I don’t think the data is kept on the card – I think the cards are coded with an identifier that gives access to the machines, then is wiped, re-coded, and used for the next guy.

That is even more creepy. So how is a recount done with these things? Where is the backup? Basic common sense dictates there should be a redundant copy somewhere. Are we a lighting bolt away from wiping out an entire precinct of votes?

JamVet

November 6th, 2012
4:05 pm

Voting in a major election is such a strange thing.

It reminds me of going on vacation – one thinks about it for months in advance and then when it gets here…. poof, it’s over!

This marks the tenth time that I have voted for the euphemistic “Leader of the Free World” and it never gets old. I do love the act, as futile as it sometimes feels!

My only tiny complaint is that “I’m a Georgia Voter” sticker. I dig the peach motif but are they embarrassed by the stars and stripes down here or something? (grin)

At any rate, you can’t stop love (or democracy) in action…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4BokleEgjg

Bronco Bamma

November 6th, 2012
4:06 pm

Giddyup voters!

Bahma, you from round these parts? My horse Drone doesn’t like your smell….

Jm

November 6th, 2012
4:09 pm

Look

I hear you, and I think one resolution to that for many people would be moving voting to a Saturday….

Jm

November 6th, 2012
4:13 pm

Ooooo

Politico monitor / counter is up :)

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 6th, 2012
4:13 pm

moving voting to a Saturday….

First or second Saturday in November? Hmmmm…vote? or watch college football? Getting out of bed before 10:30am on a Saturday is out of the question. What to do? What to do?

Peadawg

November 6th, 2012
4:13 pm

I don’t think internet voting will ever be allowed. It’s too dangerous/unsafe.

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:15 pm

“Why can’t you vote over the Internet?”

Why should you be able to vote electronically when there is no accompanying “paper trail” to confirm the tally? Does anyone really imagine there are no real “bugs” or possibility of malfunctioning or hacking?

“They were even able to change the choice of candidates that appeared on people’s screens.”

You mean like this (and the other numerous anecdotal reports of similar “problems”)?

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/11/06/video-allegedly-shows-electronic-voting-machine-changing-vote/

Simple Truths

November 6th, 2012
4:16 pm

Sometimes, a simple solution is the best solution. A paper trail really is handy.

williebkind

November 6th, 2012
4:17 pm

jm,

Et tu JM, you and my wife will never give me a free moment.

JamVet

November 6th, 2012
4:17 pm

Absentee voting is my only option in most cases.

I lost my voting virginity at RAF Bentwaters, Suffolk, England in 1976. Using a Nebraska absentee ballot I voted for Jimmy Carter.

And 36 years later, I’m still damn proud of that vote.

williebkind

November 6th, 2012
4:18 pm

Why cant you vote over the internet?

This dependent society just keeps geting better, huh!!

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:18 pm

“That is even more creepy. So how is a recount done with these things? Where is the backup? Basic common sense dictates there should be a redundant copy somewhere. Are we a lighting bolt away from wiping out an entire precinct of votes?”

This is but one reason why liberal faith in government completely baffles me. I am a software engineer. It is absolutely IDIOTIC to not have a fail safe voting system.

JamVet

November 6th, 2012
4:18 pm

Sunday voting would be great. The drunks and the pious could stand in line together!

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:19 pm

Just because you can’t today doesn’t mean that we can’t solve the issues.

The example above was for an “open source” solution… certainly not the current state-of-the-art, given the secrecy around the current set of e-voting machines. With open source, you don’t deploy without a LOT of time between a software release and actual deployment, so that the bugs can be caught. With closed source — like what we have now — no one has any idea except for the vendors whether there are bugs in the system.

But we accept what we have now, because the plantation owners told us it would be ok.

I’d rather the open source solution where the bugs are visible to everyone and fixed before release.

williebkind

November 6th, 2012
4:19 pm

“And 36 years later, I’m still damn proud of that vote.”

I am speechless!

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:19 pm

Sunday voting would be great. The drunks and the pious could stand in line together!

And I’d end up standing in line at 9 am with all the Jews and heathen… just like our Sunday breakfast outing. :)

Simple Truths

November 6th, 2012
4:20 pm

Can’t resist this. This is why we can’t vote using the innernets. Forward to the 2:11 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f99PcP0aFNE

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 6th, 2012
4:21 pm

The drunks and the pious could stand in line together!

Before or after they go to Waffle House?

Peter

November 6th, 2012
4:22 pm

You should be able to vote over the internet………think of all the American’s stuffing their face’s and not have to leave the couch or the TV ?

That would be a blessing for over 50 % of all American’s considering how Obese America really is !

And really does anyone trust those voting machines ? Come on now…… ????

DebbieDoRight - Plantation Liberal (In Good Standing)

November 6th, 2012
4:24 pm

And 36 years later, I’m still damn proud of that vote

Jimmy Carter is a good man.

SIDE: (not a dig) — Have you ever noticed that when an Democrat Ex-President is out of office, he always does something for the people, (Habitat for Humanity, World AIDS Assoc., etc).

Whereas when a Republican Ex-President gets out of office, he always does something for HIMSELF, (Lecture engagements, Speaking Tours, Paid Analysis, etc.)?

Morality?

November 6th, 2012
4:26 pm

Would one of you “knowledgeable” Jay regulars on here tell me the diff between the New Black Panthers and the old, original Black Panthers? Is there a new KKK?

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:27 pm

Whereas when a Republican Ex-President gets out of office, he always does something for HIMSELF, (Lecture engagements, Speaking Tours, Paid Analysis, etc.)?

George H. W. Bush is your exception. And Clinton gets paid HUGE bucks for his speeches… as will Obama.

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:28 pm

“With open source, you don’t deploy without a LOT of time between a software release and actual deployment, so that the bugs can be caught.”

That is not necessarily true (that a lot of time is allowed just in order to catch bugs). Typically, most open source projects are developed mainly pro bono by volunteers (who are not working full time) and the good ones have automatic hourly builds and automated regression testing to catch most problems right away.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:28 pm

Would one of you “knowledgeable” Jay regulars on here tell me the diff between the New Black Panthers and the old, original Black Panthers?

Other than the originals would be nearing 70 years old now and not so likely to scare FOX viewers?

Moderate Line

November 6th, 2012
4:28 pm

Historical voter turnout. As voting gets easier fewer people vote. From 1840 to 1900 voting turnout dropped below 70% once. Interesting enough as voting has become less surpressed voting actually went down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections

Sha'Quonda

November 6th, 2012
4:29 pm

Thanks to ex-Sec. of State Cathy Cox we have touch screen voting machines that leave no audit trail. We worry that a a few voters’ ballots could be compromised by internet voting, then just blithely assume that all voters’ ballots are being tallied correctly on these stupid machines.

Look before I leap...

November 6th, 2012
4:29 pm

Saturday voting?
HA!

That would require the bureaucrats to give up a weekend day.
Ain’t never gonna happen.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
4:29 pm

Towncrier — “You mean like this (and the other numerous anecdotal reports of similar “problems”)?”

FWIW, I’m less comfortable flying in a fly-by-wire aircraft like an Airbus or some of the later Boeing models as opposed to older aircraft simply because of the electronic inputs to the control surfaces. Another flying consultant with whom I used to work felt so strongly about it that he often said “if it isn’t Boeing, I’m not going.”

Thulsa Doom

November 6th, 2012
4:29 pm

Jamvet,

I’m cool with the Sunday thing. The pious may not down with my morning after whiskey breath though. Lord knows they wouldn’t have wanted to stand next to me the morning after the lsu bama game.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:29 pm

That is not necessarily true (that a lot of time is allowed just in order to catch bugs).

For almost all open source projects for mission critical tasks — think something like MySQL — it goes through a LOT of time and iterations between finishing the features and calling a release “final”. Typical projects are soooo not mission critical. Voting, you’d think, would be mission critical.

Rider Inman

November 6th, 2012
4:29 pm

It took over 2+ hours for me to vote this morning in-town and I’m happy I took the time to do so. However, not every person is allowed or can have the luxury of taking 2+ hours of their day to vote. Many working class people don’t have that option to take that time, or don’t have the transportation options to get them back and forth in a convenient manner. While it might seem easy for many of the OTP white collar folk, it truly isn’t for so many others. I know people in Cobb that said it took them only 10 minutes to vote this morning…that must be nice. This current archaic system of voting seems to favor the less urban areas of the nation and we all know to what side that population tends to lean.

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:31 pm

“Have you ever noticed that when an Democrat Ex-President is out of office, he always does something for the people, (Habitat for Humanity, World AIDS Assoc., etc).”

Not enough to establish a pattern. But, more to your point, have you ever noticed that social conservatives on average do more personally for the needy than do liberals?

Thomas

November 6th, 2012
4:31 pm

Thank you- very informative article. I have always wondered why we didn’t do more online.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:31 pm

As voting gets easier fewer people vote.

Coincidence, not causation.

Back then, most people lived within a mile of a town, too.

Child, please

November 6th, 2012
4:32 pm

As with most things these days, we want to be able to do it because it is the easy, lazy way to do something (security aside). I actually enjoyed going to the polls, today, took all of about 7-8 minutes, saw three friends from the street at the poll (I skipped the bake sale going on).
It was nice to go to the poll and exercise my privilege to vote. Many men and women have died to defend that privilege, the least I could do is repay the debt and make an informed decision.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:32 pm

But, more to your point, have you ever noticed that social conservatives on average do more personally for the needy than do liberals?

they do more for their church. For “the needy”, not directly so much more.

Morality?

November 6th, 2012
4:32 pm

You are misinformed. George Bush has done a lot of good things after leaving office for the people as have most if not all of the former presidents (Dem & Repub). and they all (including Carter) give speeches and write books for millions. It’s not illegal.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:33 pm

I voted in 25 minutes this morning and wondered why the PTA wasn’t at the school selling drinks and donuts.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
4:34 pm

Towncrier — “But, more to your point, have you ever noticed that social conservatives on average do more personally for the needy than do liberals?”

Not enough to establish a pattern.

DebbieDoRight - Plantation Liberal (In Good Standing)

November 6th, 2012
4:34 pm

original Black Panthers

Are mostly dead — One is a US Congressman and Three wrote books about being Panthers.

OH and the biggie of course, is that the Panthers started in Oakland as a group that instituted the School Breakfast iniative and After School Programs.

Need Anything else? Why not try google?

Stephenson Billings

November 6th, 2012
4:35 pm

Foreign election officials amazed by trust-based U.S. voting system

“The most often noted difference between American elections among the visitors was that in most U.S. states, voters need no identification. Voters can also vote by mail, sometimes online, and there’s often no way to know if one person has voted several times under different names, unlike in some Arab countries, where voters ink their fingers when casting their ballots.”

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/11/06/foreign_election_officials_amazed_by_trust_based_us_voting_system

JamVet

November 6th, 2012
4:36 pm

Doomy, the great part would be to try and figure out why some of the folks in line in their Sunday best had what appeared to be raging hangovers along with some of the rest of us heathens!

willie, if only I could cause that reaction in you at will! LOL!

We all need…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idtOY67DDW4&feature=related

Peter

November 6th, 2012
4:38 pm

ByteMe – Got ilk? George H. W. Bush is your exception.

What would he talk about ……… a few failed businesses ? bankrupting America ? How to allow Terrorists to train in America under his watch ?

Deficits don’t matter ? Cost plus Contracts are good for the US Treasury ………. Or better yet..,,,

Mission Accomplished ?????

roswell mom

November 6th, 2012
4:38 pm

The application for a Georgia absentee ballot says you must either be
a) over 75,
b) physically disabled, c) UOCAVA Voter – Member of armed forces or Merchant Marines of the United States, commissioned corps of the Public Health Service or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, spouse or dependent residing with or accompanying said member, or a United States citizen residing overseas,
c)Military Overseas,
d)Overseas Temporary Resident, f)Military Stateside, or
g)Overseas Permanent Resident (federal offices only)

Being out of town on business or just living out of state isn’t a legal excuse for absentee voting. Hope you guys are following the law.

Morality?

November 6th, 2012
4:39 pm

My church has a food bank for the needy . and I donate time there to give them food – no strings attached. My church also gives money to many char8ities world wide. No need for you to poor mouth churches. What do your atheist groups do help people?

ragnar danneskjold

November 6th, 2012
4:39 pm

Interesting essay, thanks for posting.

Don't Tread

November 6th, 2012
4:40 pm

“the Department of Defense had planned to allow military personnel overseas to vote via the Internet this year, using a $22 million system developed by Accenture”

I hope they got the $22 million back.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
4:40 pm

R. Mom — “Being out of town on business or just living out of state isn’t a legal excuse for absentee voting.”

If that’s so, then it’s changed in recent years.

JamVet

November 6th, 2012
4:41 pm

Morality, I salute George as an ex-president. Seriously. Quiet service, low profile.

It’s a role MUCH better suited to him!

Now if he would just backhand Dick Cheney and tell him to keep his putrid mouth shut and stay the hell off of Faux News… (LOL)

Thulsa Doom

November 6th, 2012
4:41 pm

Byte me,

Because the PTA may not want to comply with the new food safety regs that may require license, permitting, and inspection to sell those donuts and coffee once every 4 years (kd)

Paul

November 6th, 2012
4:41 pm

Glad that’s out of the way.

Logged in too late down below, so….

Hey everybody, DebbieDoRight’s here!!!

http://tinyurl.com/bwlcm56

St Simons

November 6th, 2012
4:41 pm

Australians have 2 weeks to vote, and an Election Day.
If somebody has trouble voting, its a big *ing deal.
It is against the law NOT to vote.
If it was important enough, we would do this too.
Of course you know who’s against this.
No con would ever be elected again. ever.

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:43 pm

“For almost all open source projects for mission critical tasks — think something like MySQL — it goes through a LOT of time and iterations between finishing the features and calling a release “final”. Typical projects are soooo not mission critical. Voting, you’d think, would be mission critical.”

Again, that has NOT been because the developers presumed time would catch all bugs but because there wasn’t a large paid QA team to winnow out the bugs in a short period of time. Widespread beta and rigorous QA testing is the best way to ensure software operates as designed. And MySQL is now a bad example, since it is owned by Oracle.

With respect to voting online, however, the biggest obstacle is and will always be security. I don’t think browser-based software will ever be viable because one cannot control the client browser. Indeed, the client environment is what makes online voting problematic.

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:46 pm

“Not enough to establish a pattern.”

I have read articles to that effect (not counting my own personal experience), so I disagree.

Jm

November 6th, 2012
4:47 pm

Thulsa Doom

November 6th, 2012
4:48 pm

Morality,

Yep. There are many churches that have food banks and other programs to help the poor and elderly. My old church we often painted and did home repairs as well as food drives among other things. Hard to believe people put down all the good work churches do, especially overseas work by many of the larger churches.

Jm

November 6th, 2012
4:49 pm

Cats disappearing in my Atl neighborhood :)

Probably coyotes :)

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
4:49 pm

“Morality” — “What do your atheist groups do help people?”

The same thing your churches do; we’re just less organized about it and we spend less time and effort blowing our own collective horn.

Here are a couple of examples:

http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/

http://humanistcharities.org/

Morality?

November 6th, 2012
4:50 pm

Thanks Deb but that really doesn’t answer my question about what is the diff between the original and New Black Panthers. I mean their philosophy and tactics – are they diff? Like for ex the originals committed violent crimes to “raise” money and murdered a few people and of course they didn’t care much for the white devils. Are the New Black Panthers a little more tolerant and less violent? Kind of like the KKK these days, I don’t really hear or see anything of them. Come to think of it I never saw or heard much of them the last 50 years. Does the KKK still exist – other than just a few boys putting on robes and dancing around a bonfire?

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:52 pm

“FWIW, I’m less comfortable flying in a fly-by-wire aircraft like an Airbus or some of the later Boeing models as opposed to older aircraft simply because of the electronic inputs to the control surfaces.”

There is something to what you say – especially when you consider that an ostensibly failed and presumably tragic mission like Apollo 13 was saved with equipment that would now be considered archaic.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
4:53 pm

Towncrier — “I have read articles to that effect (not counting my own personal experience), so I disagree.”

Your question was “have you ever noticed,” which would seem to indicate that you wanted to know what *others* had observed. Perhaps I was mistaken about the sort of answers you wanted to receive.

“Widespread beta and rigorous QA testing is the best way to ensure software operates as designed. And MySQL is now a bad example, since it is owned by Oracle.”

Agreed on all three points.

josef

November 6th, 2012
4:53 pm

getalife

November 6th, 2012
4:53 pm

We can do better elections.

Too long and too much money wasted.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
4:54 pm

Towncrier — “There is something to what you say – especially when you consider that an ostensibly failed and presumably tragic mission like Apollo 13 was saved with equipment that would now be considered archaic.”

Indeed. There’s probably more computing power in a single iPhone or Droid phone than there was in the entire CM, CSM and LEM put together.

Brosephus™

November 6th, 2012
4:56 pm

This is but one reason why liberal faith in government completely baffles me. I am a software engineer. It is absolutely IDIOTIC to not have a fail safe voting system.

Does it not baffle you, as a conservative, that conservative states such as Georgia do not have a fail safe voting system? It doesn’t seem like it’s just liberal faith in government, does it?

Thulsa Doom

November 6th, 2012
4:56 pm

I’ve seen only one ex dem potus do a lot of good and that was carter. otherwise when I think of deem leaders and charitable giving I’m stunned by just how stingy Obama and especially Biden are. Biden should be ashamed of himself.

Morality?

November 6th, 2012
4:56 pm

All I tried to do was explain to the ignorant on here that churches do things for a lot of people world wide regardless of their faith or lack of faith. I was answering a question – not blowing my horn. Glad you atheists help others. Good for you and I won’t accuse you of blowing your horn for answering my question. I think we understand each other here and no need for you to reply back to me. Got to go,

Towncrier

November 6th, 2012
4:58 pm

“Other than the originals would be nearing 70 years old now and not so likely to scare FOX viewers?”

I have a good friend who is an original ex-Black Panther. He grew up in Alabama. I have learned a lot from him about the movement, why he got into it, the hatred he had for white people and so on. We have talked a lot about race relations between blacks and whites.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
4:58 pm

D. Tread — “I hope they got the $22 million back.”

Having worked with Acccenture, I imagine that $22 million bought the DoD a program that simply printed the servicemember’s personal information and selected candidates on a form that would then be printed out and *mailed* to election officials in the servicemember’s home state.

I further expect that they had three interns and a team lead write the program in about half a day, but billed the DoD for about three months’ worth of billable hours.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

November 6th, 2012
4:59 pm

ByteMe – Got ilk? George H. W. Bush is your exception.

What would he talk about ……… a few failed businesses ? bankrupting America ? How to allow Terrorists to train in America under his watch ?

Deficits don’t matter ? Cost plus Contracts are good for the US Treasury

You’re thinking of George W (43), not George H W. (41)

Jm

November 6th, 2012
4:59 pm

If Romney wins, will the prez limo and air force 1 have doggie carriers on the roof? :)

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 6th, 2012
5:01 pm

Too long and too much money wasted.

Agreed. This could be done in 6 months from first primary to election day. Then get rid of Super PACs.

Of course the only problem with shortening the cycle is Romney would not have had enough time to repeatedly change all of his positions.

getalife

November 6th, 2012
5:01 pm

New Jersey extends online voting so they are using it in New Jersey.

They busted two voting machines switching Obama votes to romney so they tried to cheat in Pennsylvania.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 6th, 2012
5:01 pm

Morality — “All I tried to do was explain to the ignorant on here that churches do things for a lot of people world wide regardless of their faith or lack of faith. I was answering a question – not blowing my horn.”

FWIW, I think that some religious folk use their charitable work to deflect criticism; I think we’ve certainly seen some figures in the Catholic Church do that in recent years (as if ANY amount of charitable work could make up for the child molestation scandal). I wasn’t speaking of you in particular.

“Glad you atheists help others. Good for you and I won’t accuse you of blowing your horn for answering my question.”

Thank you. We’re not particularly organized; atheists tend to be a lot less motivated by authority and direction than church congregations, but we’re working it out. Rome wasn’t built in a day, you know.

“I think we understand each other here and no need for you to reply back to me. Got to go,”

Drive safely.