The Fox-induced hysteria over Benghazi collapses
What happens when a lie goes astray?
You may recall the right wing’s hysteria last week over the way that events had supposedly played out in Benghazi, Libya. Stoked by inflammatory, deeply irresponsible misreporting on Fox News, they insisted that this scandal was bigger than Watergate, and that for his cowardice President Obama would be disgraced as commander in chief and impeached and removed from office should he win a second term.
Oh, they were in fine, fine form, braying like so many hounds certain they have finally treed the fox.
President Obama, we were told, had AC-130 gunships within an hour of Benghazi but refused to use them to try to intervene on behalf of his ambassador. We had Special Forces units ready to go just two hours away, at Sigonella Air Base in Sicily, but a cowardly Obama again barred a rescue operation, fearful that it might endanger his re-election if it went astray.
And twice — TWICE!!! — former SEALs at a nearby CIA compound had requested permission to intervene in the assault on the U.S. consulate, but twice they had been ordered to stand down and do nothing. Finally, the ex-SEALS defied orders from Washington, made their way to the consulate and rescued some of their fellow Americans. Obama, in contrast, was ready to just let them all die.
Fox News also reported that upon returning to the CIA annex, those same ex-SEALs had “lasered” a mortar targeting their position in hopes that an AC-130 would arrive to take it out, but again no help came. That same mortar later killed two of those ex-SEALs.
But as predicted here, none of that turned out to be true. None. From beginning to end, and in all its details, that story has proved to be false.
– There were no orders from the CIA or anyone else to stand down. According to a CIA timeline released last week, once those at the CIA annex learned that the nearby consulate was under attack, an ad hoc rescue mission was quickly put together and launched within 25 minutes.
– As Pentagon spokesman George Little described it Friday, “there was no AC-130 within a continent’s range of Benghazi” that night. The closest gunship was in Afghanistan, some 2,500 miles away. The two surveillance drones that eventually reached the scene in Benghazi also had to be reassigned from elsewhere; neither was armed.
– Contrary to the Fox report, there were no Special Forces units available for insertion into the situation. Soon after word of the attack reached Washington, a special ops team was scrambled from a training facility somewhere in Central Europe — some sources have reported Croatia — and transported to Sigonella.
In addition, a second special ops unit was immediately alerted and transported from a military base here in the United States to Sigonella, as an option should a hostage situation develop. In other words, major preparations were underway to provide a military option should the opportunity arise to use it.
But as Little put it last week, the units “did not arrive until after the entire sequence of events was complete. … They were in Sigonella many hours after the attacks.” Two platoons of specially trained Marines had also been hustled to Sigonella, but again too late for intervention.
– Finally, there had been no “lasering” of the mortar position used to attack the CIA annex in the second phase of the assault. (That second phase occurred more than seven hours after the attack on the consulate had ended). There was no reason to use a laser in that fashion — the SEALs knew they had no air cover to intervene — and more importantly, no opportunity to do so.
According to the CIA, its personnel at the annex were not even aware that the mortars existed until mortar shells began falling on their position; from beginning to end, the deadly mortar attack lasted all of 11 minutes.
In conclusion, last week’s entire controversy was spectacularly, embarrassingly wrong-headed. No facts exist to justify the overheated rhetoric and allegations directed at Obama and top officials in his administration, but no apologies will follow either. Quite the contrary, I’m sure.
– Jay Bookman
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749 comments Add your comment
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:13 pm
“Morality” — “Christianity is not a religion and I have already explained.”
It most certainly *is* a religion, your wish to the contrary notwithstanding.
“But, not being a Christian, you would not understand.”
Given that you’re not an atheist, what makes you think you understand *my* position?
“I don’t hate you because you are not a Christian…”
I didn’t say a single word about hate, but I find it very illuminating indeed that you felt you needed to say that.
” have good day.”
And you as well.
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:14 pm
KEEP saying it but Elections are not TERM LIMITS. There is no limit to the number of consecutive terms a member of Congress can run for reelection. If you want bipartisanship we need TERM LIMITS. Congress is broken – politicians in both parties are more loyal to their party than they are to the U.S.A. Priority #1 is to get reelected. without regard for what is best for the recovery of our economy and our survival as a nation.
flagboy?
November 5th, 2012
12:14 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
11:39 am
Flagboy — “I simply copied and pasted what you typed. I don’t see what I did wrong.”
“I’m not a bit surprised.”
“and as for knowing you. . . this is the internet. . . and it’s a blog. with anonymous names and handles. . . I’d hazard to guess not many here know much about each other. It rarely stops anyone from posting their opinion though.”
Most of the regulars here *do* know each other, at least by reputation.
You, not so much.
Thereby making your opinion of me worthless.
___________________________
I don’t know where you quoted “I’m not a bit surprised from”. .anyway.
Despite what you think, I honestly don’t have an opinion about you. my point is both sides in this take any piece of information that suits them and uses that as the basis of their belief. Most of us no longer use information to inform us; we use it instead to verify our own beliefs ideas. For one side to say the other is blind to the truth while the other side has all truth on their side. . .well. . . . it’s a pretty narrow-minded way of looking at things.
From Time Magazine:
“The bias extends to how people digest news. In a 2007 study published in the Quarterly Journal of Political Science, participants were asked to rate the bias contained in a single news report that was alternately identified as originating from Fox News, CNN and a fictional television station. Simply changing the brand attached to the report changed people’s views of the information. People made assumptions about the veracity of the news independent of what the news actually reported. “As a result, individuals sometimes create bias even when none exists,” concluded authors Matthew Baum of Harvard and Phil Gussin of UCLA. The effect was stronger among those who knew more about politics.”
So, that’s my point. feel free to respond or whatever. If it’s something about how my opinion is “worthless” because of my notoriety on the AJC blogs. . so be it.
Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2012/10/03/blue-truth-red-truth/#ixzz2BMm3AENf
getalife
November 5th, 2012
12:14 pm
Both,
I agree on your analysis and LSU dropped passes all year long. We had less penalties against Alabama.
Les is taking some heat down here on those calls because the kids were playing so well, he did not need any tricks. He was not conservative on making calls like he usually is.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:15 pm
DIA — “500 Admirals and Generals Endorse Gov. Romney Today”
“I would guess because they know they cannot trust the current administration. Go ahead, jump on me, won’t change my mind.”
How many of those 500 are working for defense contractors and stand to make a LOT of money if Romney gets elected and embarks on his promised military buildup?
Follow the money, DIA. Follow the money.
Caniac1026
November 5th, 2012
12:15 pm
Obama has already lost the veteran vote in my estimation. Any of my friends in or out of the service that share their political beliefs have totally bailed on him. Warriors are quick to defend their mates (which is as it should be), so any news where soldiers were discounted or left to rot help quickly make their decisions. And the conservative media machine has been giving them an easy decision to make by utterly vilifying him from day 1.
Fox proves yet again that fear leads our country around like a dog on a leash.
JamVet
November 5th, 2012
12:16 pm
… the people who actually care…
The key point being care about what?
And who?
That is where the biggest hypocrites in the country – the Bush voters – and their self-righteous faux concern for other Americans falls apart.
getalife
November 5th, 2012
12:17 pm
The gop will keep the house so yes we need term limits.
It is working in Louisiana.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 5th, 2012
12:18 pm
If you want bipartisanship we need TERM LIMITS.
Again — reelection rates for congress critters is in the 80-90% range, so it’s a good bet that those bitching about TERM LIMITS, is not expressing any sort of poutrage against THEIR CONGRESS CRITTER, but someone else’s like Hairy Weed.
Bob
November 5th, 2012
12:18 pm
It’s American politics, there is no truth.
Silly rabbit.
Belief without thought is fertilizer for ignorance.
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:20 pm
I felt the need to say I don’t hate you. Why? Every time I mention God here I am attacked with hateful comments from non believers. The hate comes from non believers, not real Christians, but I am not including you as a hater…… there are others on here that despise Christians. God said that we would be attacked so I expect it.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
12:20 pm
JOE
Follow the money…indeed..both sides equally love cash from defense, wall street and the like…
DownInAlbany
November 5th, 2012
12:20 pm
How many of those 500 are working for defense contractors and stand to make a LOT of money if Romney gets elected and embarks on his promised military buildup?
Follow the money, DIA. Follow the money.
I don’t know. How many?
Follow the money? Now, that’s a bipartisan comment if ever I’ve seen one…
JamVet
November 5th, 2012
12:21 pm
1026, then it is highly interesting that you fashion your name after a never-served American coward…
Hell, Herman was so gutless he lied about “being too young” to even fight for Civil Rights! And fight for this country? You gotta be ________ me…
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/lawrence-odonnell-calls-out-herman-cain-cl
Mr. Snarky
November 5th, 2012
12:22 pm
5 38 Has Obama’s chances of winning at 86%.
Not that the wingnuts wanted to know that.
I’m just trying to prepare you for what will likely be a defeat.
Sometimes its better to just rip that bandaid off.
You’re welcome.
williebkind
November 5th, 2012
12:22 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes “We already have TERM LIMITS, they’re called ELECTIONS.”
Yeah that does a lot of good for people like Pelosi in her district. Even the conservatives keep some in there far beyond their usefulness. But when the liberals get a bad they get a bad one forever.
indigo
November 5th, 2012
12:22 pm
Under Bush’s watch, over 3,000 people were killed in the 9/11 attack. After that, thousands more killed and crippled for life by Bush’s and Cheney’s lies about WMD’s in Iraq.
Cons offer a deafining silence on this.
Meanwhile, in an attack that is still being investigated, and is far from being clearly explained, 4 Americans die.
Cons scream BLOODY MURDER and demand Obama take full blame, even though we still don’t have any evidence he did anything wrong.
And, you cons honestly wonder why we liberals think so many of you are gullible, simple tools of your Republican political idols.
JamVet
November 5th, 2012
12:23 pm
Morality, quit lying. You are breaking the Ninth Commandment.
But you do an excellent job with the Eleventh!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:23 pm
Flagboy — “I don’t know where you quoted “I’m not a bit surprised from”. .anyway.”
I mistakenly included quotes there. Thank you for pointing it out.
“Despite what you think, I honestly don’t have an opinion about you. my point is both sides in this take any piece of information that suits them and uses that as the basis of their belief.”
Sides, yes. Individuals, not necessarily. You appear to be blurring the distinction between the two.
“Most of us no longer use information to inform us; we use it instead to verify our own beliefs ideas. For one side to say the other is blind to the truth while the other side has all truth on their side. . .well. . . . it’s a pretty narrow-minded way of looking at things.”
That might have been true, had I been speaking about a *side.* However, as you no doubt noticed, I wasn’t. I was speaking to an *individual.* Yet here you are, offering oblique criticism of side-vs-side arguments, when that’s not what was happening.
“So, that’s my point. feel free to respond or whatever. If it’s something about how my opinion is “worthless” because of my notoriety on the AJC blogs. . so be it.”
If you’re going to make an oblique criticism of what *sides* do, that’s all well and good. Yet you applied that criticism to two *individuals,* and it is objectively possible to know whether those *individuals* consider information that runs counter to their opinions and beliefs — yet you exerted no effort to do so.
Seems to me that your criticism was simply a matter of a target of opportunity, chosen because you (probably) knew nothing about either participant and simply ascribed group goals, beliefs and opinions to both of us.
Tsk, tsk. Lazy.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
12:24 pm
GETALIFE
I always thought term limits were a good thing but in reality, the best way to get ALL in DC primarily working for us is to amend constitution to get all but public money out of elections…until then we can expect zero change from you guy or the other..
Not sure if we have a meaningful pool of folks who would want elected position unless the rules are changed above..
Bob
November 5th, 2012
12:24 pm
Fear Old Highway 41 #1*** X X X
The great electorate motivator.
Turbotax says my household is in the top 3% of this great country, but I would rather have a 4% tax increase than life without Medicare and Medicaid in a few years.
And no big bird.
Would turbotax lie?
Oscar
November 5th, 2012
12:25 pm
500 Admirals and Generals Endorse Gov. Romney Today
_______
500 more reasons to vote for Obama.
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:26 pm
TERM LIMITS – will eliminate the partisan, party loyalists, like Hairy Weed on BOTH sides – so that eliminates the argument that I would vote to keep my favorite. With TERM LIMITS he/she would be gone on both sides after a set number of terms. I like 3 four year terms for the House and two 6 year terms for the Senate. I would also do away with Congress having control over their own pay raises, perks, etc.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:27 pm
“Morality” — “I felt the need to say I don’t hate you. Why? Every time I mention God here I am attacked with hateful comments from non believers.”
No, you’re not. I’ve witnessed some of those ‘attacks,’ and I’ve also witnessed you, Recon and 0311 being asked what ‘attacks’ they were talking about. In every case, none of you responded to that question.
“The hate comes from non believers, not real Christians”
No, it doesn’t. You are quite simply wrong.
“but I am not including you as a hater…… there are others on here that despise Christians.”
I’m going to give you the same challenge that other christian regulars in here have been given.
Name the posters in here “that despise Christians.” I’d like to know who they are.
“God said that we would be attacked so I expect it.”
In your expectation of being attacked, you wrongly accuse others of attacking you who have done no such thing.
Oscar
November 5th, 2012
12:28 pm
We don’t need term limits. What we need is to outlaw gerrymandering of house distircts.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:28 pm
S. Ray — “JOE, Follow the money…indeed..both sides equally love cash from defense, wall street and the like…”
I think you’ll find a LOT of money behind those 500 flag officers mentioned a little while ago.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 5th, 2012
12:29 pm
Yeah that does a lot of good for people like Pelosi in her district. Even the conservatives keep some in there far beyond their usefulness. But when the liberals get a bad they get a bad one forever.
(shrug)
As I said, reelection rates for congress is in the 80-90% range. Again — it’s a safe bet that those bitching about congressional term limits don’t have their own representative in mind when mindlessly spouting this nonsense.
If you want term limits, then be the change you seek and vote out the incumbent in the general election.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
12:30 pm
INDIGO
Blaming Bush for 911 and blaming BO for 9.11.12 are kinda different despite issues you may view as similar…BUSH had gutted intelligence network in ME so no quality info to move on…good for obama the network got rebuilt before he took office…..Obama apparently has incompetence from his key folks at least relative to the fumbling way the issue was covered by Dod and WH et al…
Also, it appears that DoD, CIA or other had requests for additional support but were unable to provide…possibly for plausible reasons but it does stink that this happened on 911
Can’t blame either for either….anymore than you can give them credit or blame for economy ups and downs..
Bob
November 5th, 2012
12:30 pm
But exploiting dead people.
Win at all cost.
And you think a binder full of woman could have helped.
There is no accountability on the shock news shows.
Lie now, denie later, never apologize.
FromNorthernVa
November 5th, 2012
12:31 pm
A mediocre and incomplete editorial. There are multiple aspects to Libya. First, the administration’s desire to be less intrusive in the Middle East caused security to be lesser than optimal. There are published, redacted emails to that fact. Is this true or false? Second, the administration’s immediate response to the incident was not that the consulate and safehouse were disclosed – and that there had been a coordinated terrorist attack – but that the violence was a mob (there was none) stirred to frenzy by some obscure anti-Muslim video (it was obscure). Why was Rice sent to perpetrate this? Why not admit that we got caught with out pants down. It’s a huge tragedy. But the Obama MSM insisted on perpetrating a falsehood. None of you on this blog, in fact, really, know who was available and who wasn’t. We have SOF teams throughout the middle east in many location, all with credible transport. Were they all unavailable? I do know the ride from Italy to Benghazi is 2 hours and the scenery isn’t that great. The point is – we don’t know. What we do know is that these CIA disclaimers are all coming out 1 day before an election – as opposed to three weeks ago. So this is late breaking news? Doesn’t smell right to me. Third, so while this distinguished group of readers takes great joy in blasting Fox News, Fox is not the issue. The point is there’s been no credible explanation for the death of our ambassador – and with very few exceptions – the MSM has done nothing to uncover WTF happened. The WH explanations have been incomplete, inaccurate, inconsistent. You are acting like masses that are more concerned about justifying your 2008 vote and going along for the MSM ride than being inquisitive, concerned citizens. I don’t know what happened in Benghazi – but I have been around long enough to seen and smell BS when it’s laid out for me. It was a terrorist attack, 4 Americans dies and Fox News uncovered it. And the President kept his fundraising schedule in tact.
Dharma Bum
November 5th, 2012
12:31 pm
The questionable biases inherent in Fox News reporting do not excuse the fact that the Obama administration has been less than truthful and surprisingly unclear about the security concerns in Benghazi.
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:32 pm
Win or lose this country and the world is on the edge of economic disaster. We can’t afford ONE more year of Obama’s “No Plan” economic plan to reduce the Fed debt. Obama has the wrong priorities. That is why I did not vote for him……. he gives us no chance of economic survival.
Caniac1026
November 5th, 2012
12:32 pm
@JAM Vet
The 1026 is from by two favorite hockey players, who will hopefully be remembered long after this mess.
Ron Francis and Erik Cole.
I have no love for Herman Cain, but I understand your confusion
Partisay
November 5th, 2012
12:33 pm
Morality…you speak of how history will judge. How will it judge this:
The Republican-controlled Florida Legislature last year cut the number of days available for early voting from a maximum of 14 days to eight days. “I decided to open because we are allowed to do so,” said Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections Susan Bucher.
Bucher noted that voting in her county did not wrap up until 2:30 a.m. Sunday. Her office started accepting absentee ballots at 9 a.m.
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — A judge extended early voting hours in one Florida county on Sunday after the state Democratic Party sued in an effort to give people more time at the polls.
Some voters had faced waits several hours long on Saturday, the last scheduled day of early voting. The judge ruled on a lawsuit filed late Saturday in Orange County after an early voting site was shut down for several hours. The Winter Park library was evacuated when a suspicious package — a cooler — was found outside. It was later detonated by a local bomb squad.
So they cut early voting days back and we have people standing in line until the early morning hours? And we have a bomb threat that shuts down a polling place for most of the last day, and the republicans say, “too bad.”
How will histoy judge this election with all the obvious tactics the republicans have used to suppress the vote?
Rightwing Troll
November 5th, 2012
12:33 pm
Wingnuts have NEVER let actual truth and fact get in the way of good poutrage…
paulo977
November 5th, 2012
12:33 pm
Fred …. Eva ? .She does have a certain quality in her voice that soothes ….
Just to take a pause from the madness around and fly like a bird
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJFmM2gGhqY
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 5th, 2012
12:34 pm
TERM LIMITS – will eliminate the partisan, party loyalists, like Hairy Weed on BOTH sides – so that eliminates the argument that I would vote to keep my favorite.
We have TERM LIMITS, they’re called elections.
You just don’t have what it takes to vote against the incumbents that you love.
Again — be the change that you seek and vote against your beloved incumbents.
Brosephus™
November 5th, 2012
12:34 pm
Not that it matters but the first Bcs title game was UT and fsu in 98.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_season
The 1992 NCAA Division I-A football season was the first year of the Bowl Coalition, and ended with Alabama’s first national championship in thirteen years—their first since the departure of Bear Bryant. One of Bryant’s players, Gene Stallings, was the head coach, and he used a style similar to Bryant’s, a smashmouth running game combined with a tough defense.
The members of the Bowl Coalition were the Sugar Bowl, Orange Bowl, Cotton Bowl Classic, and Fiesta Bowl. Under the agreement the Sugar Bowl, Orange Bowl, and Cotton Bowl Classic hosted the Southeastern Conference, Big 8, and Southwest Conference champions, respectively, and then a pool of at large teams was formed between the Atlantic Coast Conference champ, the Big East champ, Notre Dame, and two conference runner ups from the Big 8, SWC, ACC, Big East and Pac-10. The highest ranked host team would play the highest ranked at-large team. If the two highest ranked teams were both at-large teams, the championship game would be hosted by the Fiesta Bowl.
So for this year, (host) SEC champ Alabama played (at-large) Big East Champ Miami-FL, the Orange Bowl featured (host) Big-8 champ Nebraska and (at-large) ACC champ Florida St., the Cotton Bowl Classic featured (host) SWC champ Texas A&M and (at-large) independent Notre Dame, and the Fiesta Bowl featured (at-large) Big East runner up Syracuse and (at-large) Big 8 runner up Colorado.
The Bowl Coalition is the granddaddy of the BCS. Alabama won the first title under the system by beating Miami. The BCS is the current version, but it originally began in 1992 under a different name.
flagboy?
November 5th, 2012
12:34 pm
Joe. .as they say. . .
“A hit dog will holler.”
sorry you took offense to your own post.
JamVet
November 5th, 2012
12:34 pm
Kam, to your point, that feckless Tom Price didn’t even really have to campaign to keep his dead red seat.
So, I’ll be stuck with that loser until he dies…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 5th, 2012
12:37 pm
And Jesus said: I turned the 5 loaves and two fishes into significant quantities to feed 5,000 men, I deserve to make some money off my hard work..”
Rightwing Troll
November 5th, 2012
12:37 pm
I for one look forward to Weds morning. Not because I feel “my” candidate has a lock, but because I’m ready for the politicking to be behind us.
If Mittens prevails, I’m down with a president Mittens, teatards got punked in the primaries, middle of the road Mittens is what you’ll get, and that ain’t so bad.
Brosephus™
November 5th, 2012
12:37 pm
RW @ 11:44
Excellent point!!!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:38 pm
Flagboy — “Joe. .as they say. . .“A hit dog will holler.”
I’ve already posted that several times here in the last couple of weeks. In fact, I’m pretty sure I posted in on this very thread earlier today.
“sorry you took offense to your own post.”
Excellent, presumptuous *and* wrong, all in the same sentence.
I took offense at *your* post, not my own. We’d both be better served if you leapt to fewer conclusions and asked more questions.
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:38 pm
I read the comments against Christians and God….. expect you have too. You have a God given right to your misguided opinion. Not going to take all day to find exactly where and who said what. That would delight them for me to mention their name. Not going to give them the satisfaction. Thought you promised to ignore me anyway – was there a time limit on that?
Jefferson
November 5th, 2012
12:39 pm
Morality is way full.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 5th, 2012
12:39 pm
We can’t afford ONE more year of Obama’s…
Yeah, that’s why we are giving him four, not one.
Bob
November 5th, 2012
12:40 pm
It was terrorist. The bad guys attack us and you attack the President. You give strength to our enemy and claim superior patriotism. Very sad. Yes it’s sad. If he is not your President today you don’t deserve to vote tomorrow.
Period.
Yes, I’m white, born raised and educated in the south. I’m married to my first wife, have three sons, and an honorable discharge from USN. I’m 51 years old and telling you that questioning authority is your civic obligation. But where were you when President Bush was in office? This is politics not patriotism.
TaxPayer
November 5th, 2012
12:42 pm
Hows does that saying go now, there are liars and damn liars. Any cons on here retracting their damn lies. I didn’t think so.
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:42 pm
Party loyalty of the loyalty to the U.S.A. is treason. TERM LIMITS
will the "REAL" Mitt Romney please stand up
November 5th, 2012
12:43 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:43 pm
Party loyalty over loyalty to the U.S.A. is treason. TERM LIMIYS
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:45 pm
Morality — “I read the comments against Christians and God….. expect you have too.”
No, I don’t think I have. Clearly they’ve stuck in your mind, so I wonder why it’s so hard for you to recollect them or the posters who posted them.
“You have a God given right to your misguided opinion.”
No, I have a right to my opinion. Your imaginary deity doesn’t enter into the matter.
“Not going to take all day to find exactly where and who said what.”
Yeah. I didn’t think so. It’s easy for you to make accusations, but not so easy for you to substantiate them, is it? What was that about bearing false witness?
“That would delight them for me to mention their name. Not going to give them the satisfaction.”
Actually, if you and the other christian faithful on this board could *substantiate* these attacks you speak of, Jay might do something about it. But perhaps you prefer making up these imaginary attacks so you can play at being persecuted?
“Thought you promised to ignore me anyway – was there a time limit on that?”
Oh, so you DO remember who posted what! Great!
Now let’s see you articulate who posted those nasty attacks about christians. Surely you can remember that, too!
Jay
November 5th, 2012
12:45 pm
sheets
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:45 pm
Voting for Party LOYALTY over LOYALTY to the U.S.A. and for what’s best for our economic survival is TREASON.
JamVet
November 5th, 2012
12:46 pm
Cainaic,
If you know me at all, you know that I have the penchant for opening wide and inserting both feet! (it’s a gift!) Mea culpa.
For veterans like yours truly who hope that awesome combat veterans like Tammy Duckworth defeat nasty, never-served, little tea party darlings like Joe Walsh:
I want to thank you for all of your hard work and support this year. Because of you, VoteVets.org has spent $7 million dollars in 2012, to support those who stand up for troops and veterans, and expose those who don’t.
From Illinois to Hawaii, North Dakota to Montana, Indiana to Missouri, and on through Arizona, Virginia, Ohio, and Nebraska, VoteVets.org has been incredibly active, and through VoteVets.org PAC, you’ve raised nearly $200,000 for veterans running for office.
This is all due to you. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t tell someone about the incredible strength VoteVets.org has because of supporters like you.
We have a ton to do during the rest of the year, next year, and beyond. We’ll keep you in the loop, every step of the way.
But for now, our most urgent duty is to exercise the right that so many fought and died to protect – the right to vote.
Thanks for all of your support.
Sincerely,
Jon Soltz
Iraq War Veteran
Chairman, VoteVets.org
flagboy?
November 5th, 2012
12:46 pm
Joe – last one. I promise.
“In your expectation of being attacked, you wrongly accuse others of attacking you who have done no such thing.”
carry on.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
12:48 pm
JOE
Look no further than auction process for president we are witnessing…6 billion is what I’m hearing???
At $500 per month, this amount could feed a million people…or we can use it to buy 200 drones including infrastructure to support….
Ridiculous..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 5th, 2012
12:48 pm
Party loyalty over loyalty to the U.S.A. is treason. TERM LIMIYS[sic]
What about loyalty to a beloved incumbent?
Be that change you seek and vote against your beloved incumbent in the general elections.
JamVet
November 5th, 2012
12:48 pm
Not going to take all day to find exactly where and who said what. That would delight them for me to mention their name. Not going to give them the satisfaction.
The very long version of, I have nothing.
Nada, zero, zip.
I saw about 15 seconds of the Creflo Dollar show on TV last night and wished for a moment that I had become a charlatan of the cloth like him. Talk about huge money!
lefty_316
November 5th, 2012
12:48 pm
Wow. I’m absolutely shocked that a “news” organization headed up by a born-again conservative Christian would tell such lies.
Just kidding. Part and parcel of being a member of the religious right is being a professional liar.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:49 pm
Flagboy — ““In your expectation of being attacked, you wrongly accuse others of attacking you who have done no such thing.”
Again with the presuming and not so much with the asking. Do you imagine yourself a telepath?
“carry on.”
Done.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
12:49 pm
JAY
So what’s your projection as to what amount will Obama win this thing?
Worried about voter turnout?
I think he will win…
Richmond
November 5th, 2012
12:50 pm
The nearest gunship was in Afghanistan? Isn’t Afghanistan a land-locked mountainous country?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:50 pm
S. Ray — “JOE Look no further than auction process for president we are witnessing…6 billion is what I’m hearing??? At $500 per month, this amount could feed a million people…or we can use it to buy 200 drones including infrastructure to support…. Ridiculous..”
Come now. Did you miss my point? Is this just obfuscation on your part?
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:50 pm
Don’t want Jay to do anything about it. can take care of myself……. and I believe in free speech – unlike many atheists.
Bill Campbell
November 5th, 2012
12:51 pm
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid Jay! Ask any veteran about their Commander-in-Chief! th community organizer who would never fight for his country will be impeached!
Bob
November 5th, 2012
12:51 pm
Anything over your country during war is treason. Questioning authority is not. Exploiting the dead is over the line.
If you didn’t like the last 4 years……….then you shouldnt have voted for W y’all.
Partisay
November 5th, 2012
12:51 pm
“Voting for Party LOYALTY over LOYALTY to the U.S.A. and for what’s best for our economic survival is TREASON.”
“You have a God given right to your misguided opinion.”
I love it when you can use the same person’s words – 2 different posts – against them…..
Jay
November 5th, 2012
12:51 pm
Stevie Ray, I’m not what you’d call “confident” that Obama will win.
Do I think he will? Yes. But I can see circumstances in which he doesn’t.
flagboy?
November 5th, 2012
12:51 pm
Without going into the whole thing about Bengazi and Fox news and all of that, I do believe more will come out about Bengazi and the entire situation after the election.
Serious question: Is the guy who made the movie or whatever still in jail? if so, for what?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:52 pm
Richmond — “The nearest gunship was in Afghanistan? Isn’t Afghanistan a land-locked mountainous country?”
“Gunship” in this instance refers to an AC-130 *aircraft,* as Jay clearly indicated.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
12:52 pm
MORALITY
How exactly can you suggest one economic strategy is more likely to be successful than the next?
Trickle down effect from lower taxes or trickle down effect from our ever expanding government….at least they are also expanding in incompetence..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
12:53 pm
Morality — “Don’t want Jay to do anything about it. can take care of myself…”
By crying about it and not actually *saying* who the attackers were and what attacks they made? Are you serious?
“…. and I believe in free speech – unlike many atheists.”
I’ll ask again — what do you think you know about atheists? And shouldn’t I take that statement as an *attack* coming from you?
barking frog
November 5th, 2012
12:53 pm
This was the Ambassador’s fault
for being there. The CIA and State
Department got lost in the fog of
war even though it was just a few
clowns with guns protesting a bad
you tube video and now CIA reports
FBI findings in an investigation in
Libya. o.k.
Jay
November 5th, 2012
12:54 pm
“Serious question: Is the guy who made the movie or whatever still in jail? if so, for what?
Yes, he is. He violated his probation on federal fraud charges by
1.) using a false name in the making of that movie (I suspect no movie exists, that the trailer was created to fool his investors into thinking he had actually made the film.
2.) using the Internet, again in violation of the terms of his probation.
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
12:55 pm
Bingo ! Christians just attacked again – nut case above calls Christians professional liars. Enjoy getting under your thin skin!
Bob
November 5th, 2012
12:55 pm
If he’s not YOUR President today, then you don’t deserve to vote tomorrow.
Period.
Don’t pretend to be American. Put your Grey uniform on and go vote.
I served for your right to be ignorant, but not un-American.
flagboy?
November 5th, 2012
12:57 pm
. . . if only using the internet could get more people in prison.
DownInAlbany
November 5th, 2012
12:59 pm
JamVet
November 5th, 2012
12:34 pm
Kam, to your point, that feckless Tom Price didn’t even really have to campaign to keep his dead red seat.
So, I’ll be stuck with that loser until he dies…
And, we are stuck with Sanford Bishop…
Billybob
November 5th, 2012
1:00 pm
jay,
the cover up and lies told by the white house, clinton and rice will come out in the end……misdirection towards fox news will not change the outcome of the investigation into why our gov’t completely lied about a video……….this conservative doesn’t allow lying libs like you to change the actual facts of rice, clinton and white house lies about the situation…….enjoy tomorrow jay, your ilk deserves it!!!!!!!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
1:00 pm
“Morality” — “Bingo ! Christians just attacked again – nut case above calls Christians professional liars.”
So when you said that “many atheists” don’t believe in free speech, would that *also* be an attack?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
1:02 pm
Billybob — “……….this conservative doesn’t allow lying libs like you to change the actual facts of rice, clinton and white house lies about the situation…….”
I don’t know who you think you are, but it looks to me like you’re trying to set yourself up as some sort of authority.
Madge From Accounting
November 5th, 2012
1:03 pm
Aquagirl: I think that should go in the permanent lexicon. We need a name for all these wives, girlfriends, next-door neighbors etc. our con menz cite as proof they know teh wimmen stuff.
We can take that to sooo many levels! Hmmm how about:
Mittford Wives
Not Ready For Primetime Brayers
The Estrogenly Indentured Servants
Billybob
November 5th, 2012
1:04 pm
jay, 12:54
fraud is illegal and should be punished……why does your radical democrat party not want to institute a voter ID program to eliminate fraud in the voter rolls of this country and guarantee that every person who votes are who they say they are? what say you?
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
1:04 pm
STEVIE – I can agree that the tax code is a disaster and that incompetent spending by the Obama regime and “W” before him is a disaster. I voted for Ross Perot years ago. If Ross Perot was 20 years younger and running on a 3rd party ticket I would vote for him. He is the only candidate that was honest enough to tell us what we needed to hear about the deficit, the tax code and incompetent spending by Congress and the Prez. The fact is – if a politician was to tell you the truth you would not vote for him/her. We get what we voted for…… and that’s our fault.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
1:06 pm
JAY,
I agree..seems that if he gets turnout remotely like 2008 he wins..if not….that of course is the number nobody can accurately project…even a balance approach of 2000, 2004, and 2008 is wrought with reasonable doubt..
Either way, you are going to have some kind of overly giddy and overly pissed off folks..perhaps name calling today is drop in bucket..
Billybob
November 5th, 2012
1:07 pm
i’m the authority of the fact that the highest levels of our gov’t came out with a lie and bogus reason as to why this incident happened and our president spoke in front of the world and proclaimed the same lie two weeks after the fact and these same people have said nothing yet to clear the situation up as to why they lied about it……..authority absolutely
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
1:09 pm
Free speech allows attacks…….. the thought Police in the gub’ment call it hate crimes. So I guess we Christians just got a hate crime put on us. Where do I file with Obama and when do I get my SUPER SIZED check in the mail?
Morality?
November 5th, 2012
1:12 pm
Go ahead an argue with yourself til I return. This won’t pay enough to entertain you 24/7 (smiley face applied for).
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
1:14 pm
Your a liar, he’s a liar, everywhere liars liars liars….
My dad can beat up your dad!
The scenery may change but the song remains the same…
DownInAlbany
November 5th, 2012
1:14 pm
Axelrod Claims Obama ‘Convened the Top Military Officials that Evening’
Did he?
7:25 PM, Nov 4, 2012 • By WILLIAM KRISTOL
David Axelrod was asked this morning on Fox News Sunday about the decision not to deploy military forces to Benghazi the evening of September 11. His response: “The president convened the top military officials that evening and told them to do whatever was necessary and they took the steps that they thought, they took every step they could take.”
And the coverup contnues…
bucket
November 5th, 2012
1:15 pm
Jay is right, the hysteria and misinformation regarding Benghazi is Fox-induced. I mean SOS Clinton, Ambassador Rice, Jay Carney, and the President himself have already told everyone that that entire incident was just a misunderstanding caused by an internet video that the US had nothing to do with.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
1:17 pm
Billybob — “fraud is illegal and should be punished……why does your radical democrat party not want to institute a voter ID program to eliminate fraud in the voter rolls of this country and guarantee that every person who votes are who they say they are? what say you?”
We would LOVE to have such a program. The problem is that every such program the Republicans propose or try to implement SUCKS.
I have outlined (several times) a Voter ID program here on Jay’s blog that several of our conservative posters seem to like, but most people who respond say something like ‘they’d never go for it’ for some reason or another. Some posters cite cost concerns, some cite privacy issues and others are just plain distrustful of anything but paper ballots.
All that said, though, you are completely wrong when you say that Democrats don’t want to do anything about it. We just want no part of the Republican plans to do it over the last few years.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
1:19 pm
Billybob — “i’m the authority”
No, you’re not.
“of the fact they lied about it”
“……..authority absolutely”
Absolutely not.
STEVIE RAY
November 5th, 2012
1:20 pm
JOE,
I don’t think I’m misunderstanding your post unless you are suggesting that one party is less influenced by campaign cash and lobby influence than the other?
My point is that the list of those 500 you mentioned and any cash behind them is the rule rather than exception…
bucket
November 5th, 2012
1:21 pm
Make that, “that the” dang proof reader is at lunch!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
1:23 pm
“Morality” — “Free speech allows attacks…”
So what are you saying? You’re wrong for complaining about them or wrong for *engaging* in them?
“….. the thought Police in the gub’ment call it hate crimes. So I guess we Christians just got a hate crime put on us. Where do I file with Obama and when do I get my SUPER SIZED check in the mail?”
When do I get mine from you? After all, you just attacked atheists a little while ago.
“Go ahead an argue with yourself til I return. This won’t pay enough to entertain you 24/7 (smiley face applied for).”
Your surrender and concession are noted and appreciated.
Billybob
November 5th, 2012
1:24 pm
everyone get a valid picture id….problem solved……..
and your elected democrat representatives are absolutely not for verifying voter rolls because it ‘disenfranchises minorities’ which is just another strawman argument that your ilk leaders peddle as a reason to let anyone with a pulse, regardless of nationality vote……..you my believe in this, but your elected dems do not
Joe Hussein Mama
November 5th, 2012
1:27 pm
S. Ray — “JOE, I don’t think I’m misunderstanding your post unless you are suggesting that one party is less influenced by campaign cash and lobby influence than the other?”
No. The *implication* is that 500 flag officers know better than President Obama how to protect and defend the US. But IMO, that’s not why they signed off on that message. I think they did it because most or all of them stand to make a lot of money in their roles as employees or principals of defense-sector companies or contractors; IOW, bought and paid for.
That’s not to take anything away from those flag officers’ military knowledge, experience and judgment, but IMO that’s not where their criticism is coming from. It’s coming from their wallets, I think.
“My point is that the list of those 500 you mentioned and any cash behind them is the rule rather than exception…”
I don’t deny that money talks on all sides. I’m merely pointing out that in the case of those officers, I think money’s talking louder than their rank is.