Peggy’s story: The cruel cynicism of the voter ID crusade
Hans von Spakovsky, a former Fulton County Republican party official and now a star of the right’s nationwide effort to suppress voting through strict voter ID protocols, continues to pretend that in-person voting fraud constitutes a major threat to American democracy.
Yet when challenged to present evidence of such a threat, as he was in a recent article in The New Yorker, he continues to fail.
For example, in responding to the New Yorker article, von Spakovsky listed a series of recent alleged voting fraud cases that to his mind justified the expense, bureaucracy and obstacles to voting created by voter ID laws. They were:
——————-
– the Democratic nominee for Maryland’s first congressional district removed from the ballot after it was discovered that she had registered and voted in both Maryland and Florida in the 2006 and 2008 elections;
– an Arkansas legislator resigning after pleading guilty (with three other defendants) to committing voter fraud;
– a Canadian couple and a Mexican citizen arrested for illegally registering and voting in Iowa;
– a New Jersey resident convicted on multiple counts of voter fraud;
– three Indiana residents (including a former Democratic mayoral candidate) indicted for voter fraud;
– three Ohioans indicted for double voting;
– a Mexican drug dealer’s guilty plea for voting illegally in the 2008 presidential election;
– Florida’s discovery of nearly 200 non-citizens illegally registered to vote, and
– a city-council race in Vernon, Calif., overturned owing to voter fraud.
——————-
That’s the best he could do?
Once again, none of the examples could have been prevented through voter ID. Requiring a drivers license to vote, for example, does nothing to prevent non-citizens from voting because citizenship is not noted on the license.
Also note that none of the examples cited by von Spakovsky involved an organized effort to alter an election through fraudulent in-person voting. Several involved absentee balloting, the easiest and most popular way to abuse the electoral process. However, it is noteworthy that the Republican Party has in general tried to expand absentee voting without tightening oversight because that’s the means that many of its own voters tend to prefer.
Peggy Cobb
Which brings us to the story of 97-year-old Peggy Cobb of Sandy Springs, as related in an email from her son Bill:
——————-
“I now have a crystal clear, visceral understanding of why some politicians think voter ID laws are so important. The suppressive power of this law to deter people from voting is far greater than I realized. Meet my mother.
She is 97, in good health and with virtually all her marbles (bad hearing loss, though), living an active, independent life in Sandy Springs. She moved here four years ago or so. Had one knee replaced a couple years ago.
Peggy has voted in every presidential election since she was eligible, and most if not all others, too. She pays attention to this stuff more than a lot of people I know. She insists, often with me chafing, on hearing the other side.
She has a Fulton County voter registration card and has voted in every election when she’s been here. Her expired Indiana driver’s license used to be enough ID at the polling booth. No more.
But all she had to do was go to a driver’s services office, show the necessary documents, and get her Georgia Voter ID. Some waiting. No fees. Great deal.
So Peggy gathered up her voter registration card, some utility bills, bank statements, rent receipts and tax returns and went to Driver Services. They said “Great, you have everything you need. Except a birth certificate.”
She went back home and eventually figured out how to order a birth certificate from Minnesota, where she was born and married. Six weeks later, it arrived. Peggy returned to Drivers Services very enthusiastic, since the election was only a couple weeks off. They said “Great, you have everything you need, except the last name on your birth certificate isn’t the same as on all these other documents.”
Well of course not, she got married in 1943. What else could that middle initial “V” stand for except her maiden name, Vanstrom?
No Georgia voter ID card for Peggy without a marriage certificate.
I rarely ever see my mother near tears, but I did then. Some combination of rage and foreboding maybe. Luckily, the Minnesota county that has her marriage certificate is very user friendly. They even do same day turn-around and overnight delivery, if you pay for it. Time was short. $53. But UPS screwed up and misdelivered it, so Minnesota sent another one (no charge) to my house. My wife and I made sure one of us was home all day to sign for it.
Yesterday, back to Drivers Services. A friend drove her. They said, “Great, you have everything you need, except your Social Security number doesn’t match our system. Sorry, no exceptions.”
The friend, who had only bargained for lunch really, drove Peggy home to search for more papers with her Social Security number on it, then drove her to a Social Security office in Marietta. The agent could find nothing amiss, and gave her some papers.
Drivers Services finally relented and gave Peggy a Georgia voter ID yesterday, 5 days before the election. What would she have done without that determined friend?
You probably can’t truly appreciate the physical and emotion toll this ordeal has taken on Peggy. She definitely can’t believe it.
“Why is Georgia doing this to me! Do they want me not to be here? I thought government was supposed to make voting as simple as possible. I don’t understand it!”
I explained the reason for Georgia’s anti-fraud requirements with a joke I heard a long time ago. It begins with a guy standing around constantly snapping his fingers.
“Why are you doing that?” someone asked.
“I’m keeping the elephants away.”
“What? There’s never been an elephant within a thousand miles of here!”
“See, it’s working.”
The reality, of course, is much more mean-spirited and pernicious. Peggy got the joke right away. But she’s still not happy. It’s not funny. At all.
——————-
No, Peggy’s not happy. In a later message, she herself spoke of her frustration with what she calls “Beautiful Georgia, my adopted state as I finish life’s journey.” Voting absentee, she says, “seemed sensible.” But on the other hand, she wanted to once again feel the excitement of voting in person, on Election Day.
“This year 2012 held new significance … my last year ever to vote in a presidential election. I wanted to feel part of this great privilege, wanted to again walk out of my precinct tapping my Georgia Peach voter sticker. Even if the day were dark, gloomy and cold, the sun would be shining.”
But “government intrusion stripped me of my established legal right to vote in 2012 unless I complied with new restriction laws…. I will vote in person on Nov. 6 but my spirit is broken. Trust in the government of my adopted state is shattered, a cruel joke.”
– Jay Bookman
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1,304 comments Add your comment
Fred ™
November 4th, 2012
7:10 pm
josef: I have them picked up. It’s tomorrow that I rig them.
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
7:11 pm
Wow. Tough crowd. Ugly stuff.
Actually, there is no federal right to vote in the Constitution. I have several copies of the Constitution here at my house and I have read them all. Also, Bush v. Gore, the U.S. Supreme Court even alluded to that. So, the issue then becomes, who gets to vote and what rules should govern it? Military should, obviously, be given every chance to legally vote and their ballots should get priority. Then the country to should make sure every citizen who meets the legal requirements can vote, BUT fraud should be prevented. Ask Al Franken about ballots appearing from the trunks of cars. That kind of stuff is ridiculous.
Tundra Dude
November 4th, 2012
7:12 pm
Bro, wrote, in part:
Conservatives actively champion burdensome over-regulation on the citizens that they govern.
I’m sure they know what they’re doing…… guess they think it’s for our own good…..
Fred ™
November 4th, 2012
7:13 pm
Military should, obviously, be given every chance to legally vote and their ballots should get priority.
Why?
stands for decibels
November 4th, 2012
7:15 pm
…and keep in mind, I actually read and was ok with the New Republic, and supported Clinton’s stupid pandering at the time, so I’m not claiming any particularly high moral ground here for myself. But let us please recognize the damn dogwhistles for what they are.
anyway, it is all part and parcel of the original topic, even if the apologists for disenfranchisement do not have the balls to own up to it.
josef
November 4th, 2012
7:16 pm
FRED
Looks like Buford Puffer is back from services or (un)happy hour…maybe both…
JamVet
November 4th, 2012
7:16 pm
WASHINGTON — Bob Crowder, the Republican who ran against Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) in the primary, announced Wednesday that he is endorsing Democrat Patrick Murphy in the congressional race. And he didn’t mince his words.
“As a Republican for over 30 years, I’m embarrassed by the radical fringe that has taken over the party. Sadly, Allen West is their poster child, and the hateful, divisive comments he’s made throughout this campaign make it clear to me he’s the wrong choice for our district,” Crowder said in a statement.
Crowder, who is the Martin County Sheriff, said he is backing Murphy because “he has the right temperament and respect for others — including people he doesn’t agree with.
Crowder said Murphy can work with both parties and will be a congressman that Florida’s 18th District can be proud of, “unlike his opponent.”
Must be a “puny ant-American unwashed” sheriff!
What is that phrase that FOXY Lady has for our Republicans?
LOL!
stands for decibels
November 4th, 2012
7:16 pm
simple man, the tale of “ballots in the trunk” is ancient BS, and I suspect you either know as much, or should.
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
7:18 pm
Fred
Grade on a curve. You gotta remember who you’re responding to.
josef
November 4th, 2012
7:18 pm
SFD
“…apologists for disenfranchisement do not have the balls to own up to it”
I bet their “women” do!
stands for decibels
November 4th, 2012
7:18 pm
why, I do not know that phrase, JV. hum a few bars?
JamVet
November 4th, 2012
7:19 pm
Andy’s been in the Sunday “sauce” again. (grin)
Morality?
November 4th, 2012
7:20 pm
Jay, you were given several examples of voter fraud. Do you expect to be given every incidence that has occurred? If so, sit down because you will be here a few days. We know dead people and zombies vote democrat. Hanging chads for Obama.
Jm
November 4th, 2012
7:20 pm
“WASHINGTON — Bob Crowder, the Republican who ran against Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) in the primary, announced Wednesday that he is endorsing Democrat Patrick Murphy in the congressional race. And he didn’t mince his words.”
You mean bob crowder the drafted democrat because dems thought they couldn’t beat west straight up
And after they failed to beat him in the primary, they resorted to drafting an adolescent do nothing?
Ok
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
7:21 pm
dB
From your Slate linkee:
White people don’t like to believe that they practice identity politics. The defining part of being white in America is the assumption that, as a white person, you are a regular, individual human being. Other demographic groups set themselves apart, to pursue their distinctive identities and interests and agendas. Whiteness, to white people, is the American default.
That speaks more than a thousand sets of encyclopedias could ever say.
Skip
November 4th, 2012
7:22 pm
When war calls real men run to France.
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
7:23 pm
It’s ancient, but it’s fun. Same as the fiction of the Constitutional right to vote.
As for why military should be given priority, it’s just my opinion that since they have been placed overseas by the same government who runs the elections then that employee’s voting ability should be protected. These days, though, we don’t protect our overseas employees too much, do we?
Morality?
November 4th, 2012
7:23 pm
Voter I.D. is for people that don’t want to cheat the system. All others oppose.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
7:23 pm
OMG!! Tried to find St. Simon’s article about voting in Florida and went to the Miami Herald’s website. Guess what? They want you to PAY now!!
I know the printed newspaper is going the way of the dinosaur, but dang!!
Why should I pay for something that’s been free forever!??!!
I think i need my fainting couch…………..
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
7:26 pm
FL Voter Purge Disenfranchises Active Duty Military Troops
TAMPA BAY, Florida – Local service members who have spent years serving the country are discovering this fall that they aren’t allowed to vote in the presidential election.
Valrico resident and Navy Captain Peter Kehrig, who has been abroad for five years tells 10 News he feels cheated by a system that removed him from the rolls.
Florida State Law requires county supervisor of elections offices to perform regular “maintenance” on its voter rolls to eliminate voters who have been convicted of felonies, moved out of the county, or may have died.
Voters who miss two consecutive general elections (2010 and 2008, for instance) are mailed a letter to their residence warning them they will be removed from the rolls. But since the post office only forwards mail for six months, Kehrig never got it.
…
Kehrig is one of about 30 active and reserve service members who have contacted the Hillsborough Supervisor of Elections’ office about the discovery, but October 8 was the last day the law allows a voter to register for the general election. Other Tampa Bay-area counties reported small numbers of complaints too.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9691
stands for decibels
November 4th, 2012
7:26 pm
Morality, Jay has had you by the balls on this. your candy assed appeals to him to recognize a few scattered examples as evidence of something Much Bigger does not fool anyone with a rational mind.
Your GOP is dicking over citizens in order to scam a small advantage. Just own your dirty tricks like a man, already. Try to end this sorry episode with a little bit of dignity.
Fred ™
November 4th, 2012
7:27 pm
Josef: Buford Puffer, that is just so rich. Nice one.
Brocephus: DOH!!!!!!!
Oh well, the girls got home so I’m going to eat and watch Blue Bloods. Damn I love DVR. I can actually have a “show” I like and watch it. Before I would like a show, but never be able to watch it when it was on…………
Ya’ll be chilly.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
7:27 pm
Same as the fiction of the Constitutional right to vote.
Oh the stoopid, it burns it burns!!!!!
Thulsa Doom
November 4th, 2012
7:28 pm
getalife,
If you’re checking in tonight I just wanted to say congrats to LSU for playing a great and hard fought game. They may have lost but they certainly earned a great deal of respect from Bama fans.
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
7:28 pm
Voter I.D. is for people that don’t want to cheat the system. All others oppose.
Voter I.D. as it is currently being implemented does nothing to keep someone from cheating the system. People who are capable of logical thinking understand that.
If you actually stopped listening to yourself long enough to listen to the points of those who “oppose” the current laws, you would see that most people have no problem with people having to show ID’s. The problem lies in how the laws are being implemented. That’s a HUGE difference from simply being against showing ID’s. However, if it makes you feel morally, intellectually, or legally superior, then don’t allow me to stand in front of the imaginary ghost you’re about to slaughter with your “Excalibur”.
Derek
November 4th, 2012
7:29 pm
Time to close this comment thread Jay, all it’s turned into is three or four people using it as their private chat room, you should really have a moderator. Its turned into comments about nothing to do with your op Ed.
josef
November 4th, 2012
7:29 pm
FRED
I thought you’d like that…
Derek
November 4th, 2012
7:31 pm
By the way, is the AJC going to switch who they endorse this year? Not that I think any newspaper should endorse any candidate , nor any preacher
stands for decibels
November 4th, 2012
7:31 pm
bros, like I said, I wish it were not true, but the Salon piece is dead on.
anyway, parenting and suchlike awaits. prolly done for evening. later, all.
josef
November 4th, 2012
7:31 pm
DEREK
“An Atlanta blog with a little bit of opinion about a whole lot of things”
So, what would you like to discuss?
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
7:31 pm
Michael Grunwald from Time’s “Swampland” blog described his own experience attempting to Early Vote under the new Republican regime in Florida earlier this week:
I tried to vote early on Saturday, but there were two-hour lines at the only open polling station in South Beach. So I gave up. I tried again Monday, but the wait was still an hour and a half. So I decided to come back Tuesday. It took 45 minutes in line, plus 15 minutes wading through 10 pages of intentionally incomprehensible ballot questions, but I voted. If I didn’t have such a flexible work schedule—and if I didn’t write about public policy for a living—maybe I wouldn’t have.
The fight to simply cast a vote this year in the United States is a disgrace. One which the world, once again, is watching.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:32 pm
“Actually, there is no federal right to vote in the Constitution”
You say that like you think it’s true. Have you read the Consitution AND the Amendments lately?
stands for decibels
November 4th, 2012
7:33 pm
derek, the ajc stopped doing endorsements. try to keep up.
/drive by
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
7:34 pm
Debbie,
The article is a terrible thing. No military should be denied their voting ability. As for the Constitution, sorry to inform you, it ain’t in there. Insert name the calling here…
Thulsa Doom
November 4th, 2012
7:34 pm
“The problem lies in how the laws are being implemented.”
Brocephus,
Well I would agree with that- especially in the case of the Penn. voter id law. If they were going to pass it they should have passed it after the election as opposed to a few months before the election- thus allowing citizens several years to understand and prepare for the fact that they will need voter ID before the next election.
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
7:34 pm
Doggone. Yep.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:35 pm
“Time to close this comment thread Jay, all it’s turned into is three or four people using it as their private chat room, you should really have a moderator”
If you don’t like how Jay runs his blog…you are at perfect liberty to find one more to you taste. Or start one of you own. blogspot.com is ready when you are
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
7:36 pm
Doggone
He has “several” copies of the Constitution at his home, and he has read them all. I think he’s part of the latest meme to talk about federal rights and election of the president and such. Typically when one fallacy has been taken out back and put down, a zombie-like twin usually shows up. Those mofo’s are like Jason Voorhees though because they can’t seem to die even when they want to.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:36 pm
“As for the Constitution, sorry to inform you, it ain’t in there”
Yes, it is. Reading is fundamental…and so is reading comprehension.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:37 pm
“Those mofo’s are like Jason Voorhees though because they can’t seem to die even when they want to.”
Yeah, no kidding…and they are SO sincere when they say that. Pity it’s not true.
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
7:37 pm
Doom
My point exactly. However, some of your fellow conservatives appear to see things as a binary option. Hence Morality?’s 7:23 either/or fallacy.
RF
November 4th, 2012
7:37 pm
“I think i need my fainting couch…………..”
Sorry DDR, Wal-Mart is fresh out of those. Not enough cheap Chinese labor to get the new shipment done in time for the rest of us to get one. But Mitt’s on it and promising he’s got another US factory in line for shut down as soon as they get the Chinese trained.
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
7:41 pm
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.ht
The Right To Vote
The Constitution contains many phrases, clauses, and amendments detailing ways people cannot be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the “most numerous branch” of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members.
Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by “the People,” and who comprises “the People” has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote.
There you go…
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:43 pm
“Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote”
Yes, it does. It says “The right to vote” and then lists reasons it can’t be denied. It says EXPLICITLY that there IS a right to vote.
Reading comprehension is a good thing. Try it sometime.
getalife
November 4th, 2012
7:46 pm
Thanks Doom,
The game was classic SEC football.
Good luck on the repeat.
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
7:48 pm
*sigh* Ok. Give me the quote or section of the Constitution that says citizens have the right to vote. Rmember, the Constitution says that powers not spelled out are left for the states to handle. See if you can do it without an insult.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:49 pm
“*sigh* Ok. Give me the quote or section of the Constitution that says citizens have the right to vote”
I already did. Check the amendments. Take some responsibility for you own education. And remeber this: the Constitution does not GIVE rights, it PROTECTS the ones we have.
Thulsa Doom
November 4th, 2012
7:49 pm
getalife,
That was probably the best way to put it- that it was an SEC classic. Good luck on the rest of the season. Hopefully LSU will get into a bcs bowl or a good New Years day bowl like the capital one bowl.
Orange12
November 4th, 2012
7:50 pm
There is too many polls. One poll has a projection and another poll of the same area has just about the exact opposite projection. This makes the data projected somewhat confusing.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:52 pm
“There is too many polls.”
So…what do you propose we do about it?
Jm
November 4th, 2012
7:54 pm
Ignore the polls dg
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:55 pm
“Ignore the polls dg”
Who said I didn’t?
josef
November 4th, 2012
7:55 pm
Simple Man
As soon as the Constitution states “the right to vote…” there it is…sorta like that pesky 3/5 thingie…
Recon 0311 2533
November 4th, 2012
7:55 pm
It is indeed disconcerting the lefts continued pretend outrage over voter I.D laws. They’re attempts to commit voter fraud is well documented and that’s the outrage. The very real possibility that Obama could lose his bid for a second term presents a challenge to those tasked with ensuring the integrity of our election system.
F. Sinkwich
November 4th, 2012
7:55 pm
“Francois Hollande, the new socialist president of France, has a plan for solving his nation’s economic woes: raising taxes. Having already promised much higher taxes on the rich, he is now going to impose a 160-percent increase in the tax on beer.”
O’bozo’s hero acts. Be afraid, beer consumers!
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
7:56 pm
The Unspeakable Mendacity of Mitt: Faking Food Donations for Victims of Superstorm Sandy
First his campaign had VP running mate Paul Ryan pretend to work at a soup kitchen for a photo op. Then they sent out faked, Photoshopped campaign rally photos.
All of that doesn’t even speak to Mitt Romney’s unprecedented campaign of blatant lies.
Now, as if their mendacity to date wasn’t nearly enough, as first reported by McKay Coppins at BuzzFeed, they exploit a tragedy by pretending to be collecting food — food that they had already purchased and then gave to attendees at their rally to pretend as if they were donating — for the victims of Superstorm Sandy. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like this campaign…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ8FjpNpmjY&playnext=1&list=PL0lDoYpNaV3Smlkw16QIQLbS0JU59K9m0&feature=results_video
Starts at 4:55
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
7:56 pm
I would if I were wrong. No right to vote even in the Amendments. Read Bush v. Gore where the Supreme Court talks about the issue and says there is no federal Constitutional right to vote. Paragraph II (B). You can find it. A person as educated as yourself should have no trouble.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:58 pm
“They’re attempts to commit voter fraud is well documented ”
got proof?
Jm
November 4th, 2012
7:58 pm
Doggone 7:55
I didn’t
I was responding to your q
Orange12
November 4th, 2012
7:58 pm
“So…what do you propose we do about it?”
Not much can be done about it. It’s still suppossed to be a free country. Makes one wonder which one is more reputable.
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
7:59 pm
“I would if I were wrong”
You ARE wrong.
F. Sinkwich
November 4th, 2012
7:59 pm
O’bozo’s governing philosophy:
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.
H/T RR.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
8:00 pm
Simple Simon the paragraph that you linked to about the US constitution is NOT an official government site, (the dot net sorta gave it away).
What you linked to was someone’s OPINION — and they didn’t even have the courage to post that on their website…..imagine that!
Thulsa Doom
November 4th, 2012
8:01 pm
A 160% tax increase on beer? Only when they can pry that bud light can from my cold, dead hand.
Jm
November 4th, 2012
8:01 pm
Got proof?
Got milk?
First question silly
Already proven
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
8:01 pm
Read Bush v. Gore where the Supreme Court talks about the issue and says there is no federal Constitutional right to vote. Paragraph II (B).
The stoooopid………it burns!! it BURNS!!!!!……….
getalife
November 4th, 2012
8:02 pm
They will call this one after Ohio for our President like last cycle.
mitt is blaming Sandy.
josef
November 4th, 2012
8:04 pm
“Real men don’t need no f*ckin Constitution.”
—Thomas “Butch” Jefferson
Recon 0311 2533
November 4th, 2012
8:05 pm
got proof?
Of course, all you have to do is keep yourself informed. If you can’t for laziness or other reasons, I can’t help you.
Jm
November 4th, 2012
8:08 pm
Go falcons
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
8:09 pm
josef @ 8:04
http://www.shootbank.net/photos/1756.medium.jpg
josef
November 4th, 2012
8:11 pm
BROSEPHUS
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
8:12 pm
“Not much can be done about it”
“Not much” means SOMETHING can be done. So again I ask: what do you suggest be done about them?
A Simple Man
November 4th, 2012
8:12 pm
Do Right Woman and Doggone – I say it again. The Supreme Court says there is no federal right to vote. Yes, the article was about the Constitution. I never said it was a government website.
If you argue that then you are arguing with the Supreme Court. Sorry that burns you. Sorry you don’t like the facts.
Insert name calling instead of facts here…
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
8:14 pm
Sorry DDR, Wal-Mart is fresh out of those. Not enough cheap Chinese labor to get the new shipment done in time for the rest of us to get one.
RF – you are soooo bad!! i LIKE Bad!
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
8:14 pm
“Of course, all you have to do is keep yourself informed. If you can’t for laziness or other reasons, I can’t help you”
Or, in other words, you DON’T have any proof. Why am I not surprised?
Doggone/GA
November 4th, 2012
8:15 pm
“The Supreme Court says there is no federal right to vote.”
and the Consitution disagrees. Try reading it sometime. You might learn something.
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
8:15 pm
The Supreme Court says there is no federal right to vote.
Voting rights are not granted by the Feds. That is one of those things that goes to the states to deal with. As a result of the states’ inability to deal with them throughout the years, there are several Amendments to the Constitution where the feds had to step in and protect the God given rights of citizens.
You’re playing three card monte with only one card using the federal right argument. That’s shot down by the 10th Amendment as well as the other amendments that protect the right that’s God given.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
8:15 pm
The Supreme court never said any such thing — the Buish v. Gore case that you cited as your evidence does not state that. You heard something on talk radio and just ran with it; not even knowing what the hell you were talking about.
Typical.
josef
November 4th, 2012
8:16 pm
DDR
Me thinks we might consider loaning RF the boa, eh?
JamVet
November 4th, 2012
8:20 pm
Of course, all you have to do is keep yourself informed.
The very long version of no, I do not.
Actually, there is no federal right to vote in the Constitution.
15th Amendment to the United States Constitution
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 4th, 2012
8:22 pm
Its turned into comments about nothing to do with your op Ed.
Go to blogspot.com.
Create your own blog.
Choose the topics you wish to discuss.
Moderate it as you wish.
See how easy that is?
JamVet
November 4th, 2012
8:22 pm
Actually, there is no federal right to vote in the Constitution.
17th Amendment to the United States Constitution
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
8:23 pm
This is the part that you heard on talk radio:
The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College. U.S. Const., Art. II, §1.
Here’s the part Simple Simon that talk radio failed to read to you and you failed to read for yourself — its further down in the next paragraph :
The right to vote is protected in more than the initial allocation of the franchise. Equal protection applies as well to the manner of its exercise. Having once granted the right to vote on equal terms, the State may not, by later arbitrary and disparate treatment, value one person’s vote over that of another. See, e.g., Harper v. Virginia Bd. of Elections, 383 U.S. 663, 665 (1966) (“[O]nce the franchise is granted to the electorate, lines may not be drawn which are inconsistent with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment”). It must be remembered that “the right of suffrage can be denied by a debasement or dilution of the weight of a citizen’s vote just as effectively as by wholly prohibiting the free exercise of the franchise.” Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533, 555 (1964).
There is no difference between the two sides of the present controversy on these basic propositions. Respondents say that the very purpose of vindicating the right to vote justifies the recount procedures now at issue. The question before us, however, is whether the recount procedures the Florida Supreme Court has adopted are consistent with its obligation to avoid arbitrary and disparate treatment of the members of its electorate.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html
JamVet
November 4th, 2012
8:24 pm
Actually, there is no federal right to vote in the Constitution.
19th Amendment to the United States Constitution
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
8:26 pm
josef: Me thinks we might consider loaning RF the boa, eh?
only if he’s cool enough!! AND likes gay porn and drag queens
JamVet
November 4th, 2012
8:26 pm
Actually, there is no federal right to vote in the Constitution.
24th Amendment to the United States Constitution
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
josef
November 4th, 2012
8:26 pm
ZamVet
Picky, picky, picky….
RF
November 4th, 2012
8:28 pm
“They’re attempts to commit voter fraud is well documented and that’s the outrage”
Care to document that one?? Oh yeah, those 18 convictions….out of 150+ MILLION registered voters….yeah, some scandal.
josef
November 4th, 2012
8:29 pm
DDR
“…AND likes gay porn and drag queens…”
but, but, then we’d have to share it with Del…
oh, that’s right, you DID add the caveat
“…only if he’s cool enough!!”
Whew…had me scared there for a minute…
JamVet
November 4th, 2012
8:30 pm
Actually, there is no federal right to vote in the Constitution.
26th Amendment to the United States Constitution
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
That is four, specific federal voting rights specified in the US Constitution.
I await your rebuttal, a simple man.
RF
November 4th, 2012
8:32 pm
DDR & Josef: I like the boa, but DDR puts such STYLE into it… I’m not sure I could work it anywhere near that good yet! And oh yes, I frequent the other boa requirements on occasion!
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
8:36 pm
RF
The fraud is well documented by the one’s fueling the rhetoric because they are the ones funding the fraud….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/virginia-voter-fraud-case-expands-to-focus-on-gop-firm/2012/11/02/76285252-24eb-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_story.html
investigation into the arrest of a man on charges of dumping voter registration forms last month in Harrisonburg, Va., has widened, with state officials probing whether a company tied to top Republican leaders had engaged in voter registration fraud in the key battleground state, according to two persons close to the case.
A former employee of Strategic Allied Consulting, a contractor for the Republican Party of Virginia, had been scheduled to appear last Tuesday before a grand jury after he was charged with tossing completed registration forms into a recycling bin. But state prosecutors canceled Colin Small’s grand jury testimony to gather more information, with their focus expanding to the firm that had employed Small, which is led by longtime GOP operative Nathan Sproul.
State authorities are seeking to learn whether any of Small’s supervisors instructed him or any of his 40 co-workers in Virginia to ask potential voters about their political leanings during registration drives, the two sources said. Asking such questions could be a violation of state election law.
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
8:36 pm
When you go searching about Nathan Sproul, you have to turn your shenanigans filter to the least sensitive setting or you’ll risk shorting out your search engine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/us/politics/nathan-sproul-a-republican-operative-long-trailed-by-voter-fraud-claims.html?pagewanted%3Dall
In a provocative article on CNN’s Web site, the committee’s chairman, Reince Priebus, said, “Democrats know they benefit from election fraud.”
The tables have turned, however, and Republicans are now playing defense over the role of a well-paid operative, Nathan Sproul, in a voter registration scandal that emerged in Florida and has spread to other states.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement said it was reviewing “numerous” claims involving a company that Mr. Sproul runs to determine if a criminal investigation is warranted. Complaints have surfaced in 10 Florida counties, among them allegations that registrations had similar signatures or false addresses, or were filed under the names of dead people. In other cases, party affiliations appeared to have been changed.
In recent days, similar claims against Mr. Sproul have arisen in Nevada and Colorado.
Mr. Sproul, 40, a former executive director of the Arizona Christian Coalition and the Republican Party in Arizona, is well known in political circles there. Since 2004, Mr. Sproul’s companies — he has operated under several corporate names — have collected more than $17.6 million from Republican committees, candidates and the “super PAC” American Crossroads, mostly for voter registration operations, according to campaign finance records.
The Republican Party, which paid Mr. Sproul about $3 million this year for work in five states, has severed its ties with him, saying it has no tolerance for voter registration fraud.
RF
November 4th, 2012
8:40 pm
Bro: I read some about him earlier. You should see what he’s still up to under the various organization names registered to him or using his Arizona address. This guy makes ACORN look like a kiddie playground. Nothing like committing some voter fraud and padding your 401k in the process! I’m surprised Mitt didn’t give him a public high five just for the money he made off of it.
josef
November 4th, 2012
8:43 pm
oops forgot about that more than two links thingie…tried to make it easy for the google challenged, but:
HERE’S THE LESSON FROM COMMON CORE…that is what any eighth grader is expected to know…
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:gjFG9lWv4UYJ:hnn.us/sites/default/files/RightToVote_lesson.doc+common+core+standards+the+right+to+vote&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjwBGnwit9Re_5cchcou5uxpTMPsab7nsJowUhu38DmLpNKw5CUf_gXmeQIkjh1a517NscgXRLijq2ra_sNraq2HFi1vYSsUYJgIsz8HMDkoJE-h_rULBwj-oSwNVmOeWot62r5&sig=AHIEtbQOlaDX7PPo2MWiHFTlU75IiGfwKw
Brosephus™
November 4th, 2012
8:43 pm
RF
Of course, you won’t see O’Keefe go into that operation with cameras to expose voter registration fraud because that doesn’t fit the narrative that only Democrats engage in fraud. He’s basically the conservative version of ACORN, yet not a peep from those who wanted ACORN tried for treason.
getalife
November 4th, 2012
8:46 pm
Pew has President Onama up by 3.
Last poll.
You lose cons.
Just stay home.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 4th, 2012
8:47 pm
josef
http://tinyurl.com/
Please!
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
November 4th, 2012
8:47 pm
DDR & Josef: I like the boa, but DDR puts such STYLE into it… I’m not sure I could work it anywhere near that good yet! And oh yes, I frequent the other boa requirements on occasion!
Talking like that will get you anything you want!! He’s IN josef!! Del is just gonna have to wait his turn. hell should be freezing over any day now anyway……….