The ban on politics from the pulpit all but gone now

Bishop Daniel Janky

Bishop Daniel Janky

Some of you may recall Bishop Daniel Jenky, head of a Catholic diocese in Illinois, who during Mass last April likened President Obama and Senate Democrats to Hitler and Stalin. He also asked God to “have mercy especially on the souls of those politicians who pretend to be Catholic in church, but in their public lives, rather like Judas Iscariot, betray Jesus Christ.”

Now, on the eve of the election, Jenky has sent a message to every priest in his diocese, telling them that “By virtue of your vow of obedience to me as your bishop, I require that this letter be personally read by each celebrating priest at each Weekend Mass, November 3/4.”

The mandatory letter states:

Dear Catholic Believers,

Since the foundation of the American Republic and the adoption of the Bill of Rights, I do not think there has ever been a time more threatening to our religious liberty than the present. Neither the president of the United States nor the current majority of the Federal Senate have been willing to even consider the Catholic community’s grave objections to those HHS mandates that would require all Catholic institutions, exempting only our church buildings, to fund abortion, sterilization, and artificial contraception.

This assault upon our religious freedom is simply without precedent in the American political and legal system. Contrary to the guarantees embedded in the First Amendment, the HHS mandates attempt to now narrowly define and thereby drastically limit our traditional religious works. They grossly and intentionally intrude upon the deeply held moral convictions that have always guided our Catholic schools, hospitals, and other apostolic ministries.

Nearly two thousand years ago, after our Savior had been bound, beaten, scourged, mocked, and crowned with thorns, a pagan Roman procurator displayed Jesus to a hostile crowd by sarcastically declaring: ‘Behold your King.’ The mob roared back: We have no king but Caesar. Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord. They are objectively guilty of grave sin.

For those who hope for salvation, no political loyalty can ever take precedence over loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ and to his Gospel of Life. God is not mocked, and as the Bible clearly teaches, after this passing instant of life on earth, God’s great mercy in time will give way to God’s perfect judgment in eternity.

I therefore call upon every practicing Catholic in this Diocese to vote. Be faithful to Christ and to your Catholic Faith. May God guide and protect his Holy Church, and may God bless America.

It is important to note that Jenky’s description is wrong or incomplete on several points. The health-insurance coverage requirement does not apply to churches or church employees involved in its religious mission. It applies only to any secular operation by the church, such as hospitals and universities, just as it would apply to any other business.

More importantly, the policy does not require coverage of abortion. It does require that policies include contraception methods that block implantation of a fertilized egg in the womb, which the church considers abortion.

Jenky is not alone in such statements. Nicholas DiMarzio, a Catholic bishop in New York, expressed similar sentiments last week, warning parishioners that “It is inconceivable to me how Catholics could support such policies. Indeed, Roman Catholics who support abortion rights and vote for a candidate because of those policies, place him/herself outside of the life of the church. In so doing, they also place themselves in moral danger.”

“Is it possible to vote for somebody despite their support for these policies?” DiMarzio asks. “To my mind, it stretches the imagination, especially when there is another option.”

Nor are such statements confined to the Catholic leadership. For example, the Rev. Randy Mickler, head pastor of Mount Bethel United Methodist Church in Marietta, touched on multiple political topics in his Oct. 21 sermon:

In his message, Mickler tells his congregation (9:20 in the posted video) directly accuses President Obama of showing “great hostility toward Christianity, and at times an encouragement toward Islam,” rattling off a long list of alleged such actions, many if not most factually questionable.

For example, Mickler claimed that in June of 2012, the Obama administration banned the use of Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps emblems on Bibles to be distributed by the government to our troops. He did not mention that it did so under threat of a lawsuit by a group making the reasonable point that imprinting U.S. government symbols on Bibles could be interpreted as government approval. The Bibles are still being distributed, just as they always have been, but absent the military emblems.

‘I’m not telling you whom to vote for,” Mickler says. “I don’t think God cares who wins this election as much as he cares about how we reflect Christian integrity in a voting booth. It is ridiculous to think that we can divorce our faith from our actions and say, this is secular and this is sacred.”

He also tells the congregation that they face a quandary. “I’m not telling you to vote for the Mormon,” he says. “The Mormon is not a Christian. According to the National Council of Churches, that is a sect, not a religion.”

Technically, federal law still prohibits churches and other groups that enjoy tax-free nonprofit status from engaging in partisan politics. In practice, though, that law is seldom if ever enforced because the political cost of doing so would be prohibitive. And while I don’t have a major problem with that turn of events and accept it as inevitable, I think violating federal law was always one of the more minor risks that religious leaders take when they so flagrantly entangle their churches with the sordid world of partisan politics.

Once you step into that political world, the rules change significantly, and I’m not talking federal or state law.

UPDATE: I put this in comments below, but I’ll add it here as well:

It’s perfectly legitimate to question the mixing of politics and religion in the black church, although I think you also have to acknowledge how the tradition arose. For a long long time, going well back into slavery, the church was the only black institution through which the black political voice could be expressed, and black church leaders the only representatives that the white establishment respected. Separating church and state was not an option to a community allowed only a religious voice.

That said, it is impossible as a legal and practical matter — and as a matter of fairness — to allow that to continue in black churches while trying to enforce the pulpit/politics ban in other institutions. That’s in part why I wrote above that the ban is basically a dead letter from here on out.

– Jay Bookman

748 comments Add your comment

lovelyliz

November 1st, 2012
2:12 pm

I say this as someone who was raised Catholic, if a bishop or any member of any tax-exempt church wants to endorse from the pulpit, let them, but the IRS had better send them a tax bill.

STEVIE RAY

November 1st, 2012
2:12 pm

Jay,

Did the Catholic church select UCLA colors in some sort of competition or is it random?

Anyhow, I’m beginning to wonder if we will ever see appropriate enforcement of separation of church and state? Good start would be to eliminate tax free status..

Brad Steel

November 1st, 2012
2:13 pm

…likened President Obama and Senate Democrats to Hitler and Stalin.

this begs the question: does Glenn Beck wear a funny hat?

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:14 pm

One of the reasons I am very selective about the churches I attend.

Jay

For the sake of being unbiased, you could have probably included the Black clergy instructing their congregations to skip voting altogether.

james

November 1st, 2012
2:14 pm

Of course, Bookman makes no mention of churches that preach politics from the pulpit from the left.

This articles is a good example:

“Errol Thompson, a Baptist pastor in Orlando’s black community, acknowledges that the excitement over Barack Obama becoming the first black U.S. president has cooled.

But with the Democratic president locked in a tight race against Republican challenger Mitt Romney, Thompson still expects voter turnout in Florida for the November 6 election to be equal to or greater than it was four years ago.

To make sure of that, he and other black church leaders across Florida are organizing a mass effort, dubbed “Souls to the Polls,” to get thousands of people in their flock to vote early – right after Sunday’s morning service.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/27/us-usa-campaign-florida-idUSBRE89Q0D720121027

Of course, Bookman’s double standards and cherry picking are to be expected. That is what partisan pundits do.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

November 1st, 2012
2:15 pm

God, Don’t get me started. How I loathe religions.

Doggone/GA

November 1st, 2012
2:17 pm

” if a bishop or any member of any tax-exempt church wants to endorse from the pulpit, let them, but the IRS had better send them a tax bill.”

AMEN!

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:17 pm

Of course, Bookman makes no mention of churches that preach politics from the pulpit from the left.

If nothing else, some of the righties that post here are as predictable as a calendar.

:roll:

Brad Steel

November 1st, 2012
2:17 pm

Looks like someone is gunning for the Patron Saint of Hyperbole canonization.

getalife

November 1st, 2012
2:19 pm

Unhinged

Chapter 12.

“Separation of church and State” has been violated.

Peter

November 1st, 2012
2:20 pm

Yes……. But they Hid the facts many priests and other clergy were raping or fondling boys.

They also have hid the fact they have been caught laundering Mob money through the Vatican bank.

N-GA

November 1st, 2012
2:21 pm

The Church tells you how to vote! Your company tells you how to vote! America has morphed from a democracy to a theocorpocracy. Fascism by any other name is……

straitroad

November 1st, 2012
2:22 pm

I’m sure you wrote a similar article about the rantings that took place in Jeremiah Wright’s church. Jay, what do you expect the church to do? It is under attack and I applaud the fact that they are taking a stand.

Fly-On-The-Wall

November 1st, 2012
2:22 pm

Let them speak as freely as they want, but tax the h3ll out of them.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

November 1st, 2012
2:22 pm

5 Threatening Employers
4 GOP vote supressings
3 Koch brothers ad buying
2 Bishops ordering and
Obama winning the election

Peter

November 1st, 2012
2:23 pm

Here folks…read about the Vatican laundering Mob money……..

http://rt.com/news/vatican-mafia-laundering-money-716/

getalife

November 1st, 2012
2:23 pm

Looks like I picked the right time to quit the Catholic cult.

tm

November 1st, 2012
2:23 pm

I am sure that Jeremiah Wright is staying neutral in this election

STEVIE RAY

November 1st, 2012
2:24 pm

Seems many religious people do and will remain much more interested in doing well by the church than interested in who occupies the WH..based on what I see in my neck of the woods….huge very white churches…mega-style are most definitely directing votes away from BO…most likely moreso than supporting Romney..see, they preserve gay and women philosophies of the 14th century once in the “house” so to speak..

Fly-On-The-Wall

November 1st, 2012
2:24 pm

Straitroad – only in their minds are they under attack. They have to have something to be afraid of, to fear, to loath, and finally condemn. This how they keep people who won’t think for themselves in their so called houses of worship.

Chester

November 1st, 2012
2:24 pm

Hmm…I wonder how many child molesters the Bishop has protected over the years. If only the “church” was concerned about them.

no evidence, james....

November 1st, 2012
2:25 pm

james,
your point might be helped if you offered some actual evidence that there politics are preached from the left. but even the article to which you linked gives no examples of preachers directly or indirectly endorsing candidates. in other words:

you FAIL. try again.

maximum

November 1st, 2012
2:25 pm

Can’t help but question the reasoning ability of those who practice celibacy as a condition of employment.

getalife

November 1st, 2012
2:26 pm

mitt is not change.

More gop disasters.

Our country can’t take another one.

tm

November 1st, 2012
2:26 pm

Enter your comments here

ATL Tiger

November 1st, 2012
2:27 pm

“Technically, federal law still prohibits churches and other groups that enjoy tax-free nonprofit status from engaging in partisan politics.”

We should also include public schools, public universities, unions (SEIU, AFL-CIO, Teachers Union) into that group as well. They certainly have had their share of partisan messages.

STEVIE RAY

November 1st, 2012
2:27 pm

WOW,

Rapes (that celebacy experiment didn’t work out too well), facism, theocorporatocracy (?), Hitler, Stalin, Mob money…and we’re not even halfway thru the first page…awesome..

I’d like to add rattlesnakes..

straitroad

November 1st, 2012
2:29 pm

Fly-On-The-Wall, that’s simply not true. I understand there are people such as yourself who’s God is government, but that doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to trample on someone else’s religious beliefs. The mandate is an intrusion on religious liberty.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

November 1st, 2012
2:29 pm

The ban on politics from the pulpit all but gone now
.
.
.
and the taxes that they should now be FORCED to pay would make an excellent new revenue stream.

Oh and….left or right pulpit speech….tax the turkeys.

rightwingextreme

November 1st, 2012
2:30 pm

Jay, if you will recall U.S. History, the pulpit was an integral part of the American Revolution and the Abolition of Slavery. However, that all changed in 1954 thanks to one Lyndon Baines Johnson…btw you’ll notice voter fraud being committed by LBJ-D back then as well!

House Resolution 235 was designed to revise the IRS code to remove restrictions placed on churches and non-profit organizations in 1954 by then-Senator Lyndon Johnson. Prior to 1954, churches and non-profit organizations had no such restrictions on their freedom of speech or their right to speak out in favor or against political issues or candidates.

The history of Johnson’s IRS gag order is instructive. It began with what some historians believe to be a fraudulent election of Johnson to the Senate in 1948. It has been maintained by both conservative and liberal historians that Lyndon Johnson’s election to the Senate in 1948 was won by massive voter fraud. Known as “Landslide Lyndon,” this aspiring politician was “elected” by only 87 votes. His challenger, Coke Stevenson, challenged his election and presented credible evidence that hundreds of votes for Johnson had been faked. Johnson, however, was successful in blocking Stevenson’s effort by the clever use of “cooperative” court injunctions.

In 1954, Johnson was facing re-election to the Senate and was being aggressively opposed by two non-profit anti-Communist groups that were attacking Johnson’s liberal agenda. In retaliation, Johnson inserted language into the IRS code that prohibited non-profits, including churches, from endorsing or opposing candidates for political office. In effect, Senator Johnson used the power of the go-along Congress and the IRS to silence his opposition. Unfortunately, it worked. Some in Johnson’s staff claimed that Johnson never intended to go after churches, only the two “nonprofits” in Texas. Nevertheless, his sly amendment to the tax code affected every church in America, and it is a violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States.

The legislation proposed by Rep. Jones in the 109th Congress is designed to overturn Johnson’s vindictive gag order that now penalizes churches, churches that dare speak out against government policies and politicians that the churches may deem to be immoral or bad for America. There is no reason for this gag order to remain in effect, but Congress apparently thinks it must perpetuate bad public policy simply because it exists.

Organizations like Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, People For The American Way, and The American Civil Liberties Union continue to claim that this Johnson gag order must be upheld to protect “church/state separation.” This is irrational and fails to take into account the entire history of religious freedom in the United States.

Throughout our nation’s history-both before and after the American Revolution-our nation’s pastors freely spoke out on the political and moral issues of the day. It was their duty and their right under the Constitution to preach against immorality and corruption in the political and the moral realm. Historian James H. Hutson, writing in Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, notes: “Preachers seemed to vie with their brethren in other colonies in arousing their congregations against George III.” And, as Hutson discovered, the House of Representatives sponsored church services in its chambers for nearly 100 years. These services only ended when convenient transportation was available to take Members of Congress home for the weekend.

It is interesting to observe that our Founding Fathers and our first elected officials didn’t have any notion of “church/state separation,” so vehemently endorsed by Americans United and other modernist groups. Our Founders valued religion and wrote the First Amendment to protect the free expression of religious beliefs-and the freedom to speak out on the moral issues-including those involving politics and politicians.

james

November 1st, 2012
2:30 pm

Brosephus – Nice comeback. Doesn’t address the subject at hand, but at least you got to say “righties”. Hope the juvenile and vapid name calling made you feel better, and if so I am glad to have helped.

Ah, the “intellectual” left.

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:30 pm

ATL Tiger

Unions were freed thanks to Citizen’s United.

bob

November 1st, 2012
2:32 pm

Didn’t read the article, just figured from the headline you were talking about Joe Lowrey saying white people were going to hell why rallying N——-’s for Obama. I did find him using the N word offensive but he is old enough to get away with stepping on toes.

Dunwoody Granny

November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm

It’s time for churches to pay taxes along with everyone else. They used to be exempt largely because of the charity work they did, but these days there are many, many churches which don’t do any charity aside from evangelizing (and I, for one, consider that a marketing effort rather than a genuine help to the needy).

Brandt Hardin

November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm

If Obama loses this election, you can blame/thank the Right for bamboozling him. How is it ethical that an entire news network questions the President’s citizenship for four years to create doubt in voters while a fringe element of the far right demonizes and degrades him? Most of this is financed by the rich who want to keep their stranglehold on the flow of wealth in our country. Watch the white hands apply the Blackface to our first African-American President at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2012/10/bamboozling-obama.html

Jay

November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm

It’s perfectly legitimate to question the mixing of politics and religion in the black church, although I think you also have to acknowledge how the tradition arose. For a long long time, going well back into slavery, the church was the only black institution through which the black political voice could be expressed, and black church leaders the only representatives that the white establishment respected.

That said, it is impossible as a legal and practical matter — and as a matter of fairness — to allow that to continue in black churches while trying to enforce the pulpit/politics ban in other institutions. That’s in part why I wrote that the ban is basically a dead letter from here on out.

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm

james

I guess you failed to read that post of mine before yours, huh? There’s absolutely nothing juvenile about calling out crap, such as yours, for what it is. And, yes, I did address the subject at hand if you had read my first post. It actually saddens me to have to call out crap like yours, so no, I don’t feel better and you haven’t helped anything other than make yourself look like a partisaned fool.

Tealiban Party

November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm

The Bishop’s teachings are certainly not the Catholic views that I learned after 18 years of Catholic schooling.

The Bishop should be telling his parishoners not to vote or start a new party, because it seems the GOP’s views on the death penalty, gun control (a “pro-life” issue), and aiding the poor also seem to contradict Jesus’s teachings.

seabeau

November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm

Politics have always be at the forefront at black churches!

kayaker 71

November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm

And do you think for one New York minute that there have not been similar pleas on behalf of a black candidate in black churches all over the US. Can you spell Reverend Wright? At least most of these pleas from white churches have been on behalf of a religious beliefs and not racial in context. Another foray into cherry picking…. the usual Bookman ploy to paint a picture of those evil religious people expressing their opinion.

Moderate Line

November 1st, 2012
2:35 pm

Why should tax exempt companies be barred from practicing freedom of speech?

CJ

November 1st, 2012
2:35 pm

I’d like to see the law enforced. Bishops, priests, and preachers are able to say anything they want in the realm of politics, just like the rest of us. But if they choose to do so, then they and their employers should pay taxes, just like the rest of us.

These people are taking advantage of the laws to save money on taxes–leaving the rest of us to make up the difference–and then breaking them. Doesn’t seem very Christian to me.

fair and balanced

November 1st, 2012
2:36 pm

What would Ryan’s mentor, Ayn Rand say about all this?

straitroad

November 1st, 2012
2:36 pm

Brosephus, be careful with your name calling (”partisaned fool”) or Bookman will threaten to have you banned…

Thomas

November 1st, 2012
2:37 pm

below seems a little political- maybe time to take a can of lysol to extremes on both sides

Obama’s Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:37 pm

Jay

Back in the day, the Black Church didn’t directly engage in politics either. The Church itself was used to organize and mobilize the Black Community, but not to the extent to what’s going on today. I don’t like it nor do I condone it, regardless to who does it.

If you want to be religious, then be religious. This is, however, not a theocracy, and I don’t think religion should inject itself into politics just as politics should not inject itself into religion.

TaxPayer

November 1st, 2012
2:38 pm

Tax the churches but also tax the PACs. Throw in union organizations if they do the same. As Paul Broun should say, “tax all the lies that come straight from the pits of hell.” Or something like that.

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:39 pm

Brosephus, be careful with your name calling (”partisaned fool”) or Bookman will threaten to have you banned…

I did not call him a partisaned fool. I said that he’s making himself look like one. If I wanted to call him names, I would have done so.

ATL Tiger

November 1st, 2012
2:39 pm

“Unions were freed thanks to Citizen’s United.”

If a church is listed as a 501 c 3, wouldn’t the IRS have a difficult time arguing that corporations have a free speech right to endorse or oppose candidates, but churches don’t.

straitroad

November 1st, 2012
2:41 pm

Brosephus, you sure make a fine liberal. A typical liberal, but a fine one nonetheless.

Moderate Line

November 1st, 2012
2:41 pm

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:17 pm
Of course, Bookman makes no mention of churches that preach politics from the pulpit from the left.

If nothing else, some of the righties that post here are as predictable as a calendar.
+++++++++++++++
And your comment was very predictable.

Cobbian

November 1st, 2012
2:42 pm

There have been other Catholic bishops who have written similar letters that priests are required to read from the pulpit on Sunday. Jenky’s is extreme, but only marginally more extreme than others.

There have also been priests who speak out and give another viewpoint. Very brave priests, like Fr. Richard Lawrence of St. Vincent de Paul of Baltimore. There are also articles in Catholic on-line mags that show a lively debate about the positions the bishops have taken and Church doctrine. Oh, the bishops speak with the voice of the Magisterium – the teaching authority of the Church. But Catholics have minds of their own and while we are required to listen, God gave us minds to think, and bishops are not the best theologians.

The Catholic Church has always had an uneasy relationship with democracy. They are making it worse.

Don't Tread

November 1st, 2012
2:42 pm

Nice double standard there…No mention at all of the black churches preaching on 0bama’s behalf (while you lefties simultaneously try to sell the idea that there’s “no such thing” as left-wing media bias). :roll: The hypocrisy is thick today.

skipper

November 1st, 2012
2:43 pm

Jay,
Good Lord….what about the black churches that have touted and spouted Obama?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

November 1st, 2012
2:43 pm

TAX ‘EM ALL!

indigo

November 1st, 2012
2:43 pm

Nowhere in the Christian New Testament are church speakers commanded to preach on political matters. In fact, Christians are commanded to be “not of this world”.

Nowhere in the Christian New Testament(or Old Testament) is abortion even mentioned.

And yet, “men of God”, ignoring this, regularly inject politics and things not even mentioned in the Bible into their sermons.

I’ve never been able to understand why this is.

Moderate Line

November 1st, 2012
2:43 pm

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:33 pm
james

I guess you failed to read that post of mine before yours, huh? There’s absolutely nothing juvenile about calling out crap, such as yours, for what it is. And, yes, I did address the subject at hand if you had read my first post. It actually saddens me to have to call out crap like yours, so no, I don’t feel better and you haven’t helped anything other than make yourself look like a partisaned fool.
++++
That sounds like a bunch of crap! lol

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

November 1st, 2012
2:43 pm

Thomas

I will defend Rev Wright again,,,,

I condemn you for being so incredibly intellectually lazy that you would smear a man for a 30 second loop of tape rather than finding out anything about the context of the quote and the man himself.

Shame on you.

(Of course you may have thought the Tuskegee Experiment was simply a good first step)

Doggone/GA

November 1st, 2012
2:43 pm

“The Catholic Church has always had an uneasy relationship with democracy. They are making it worse”

the Catholic Church – like too many churches, of whatever religion – is a theocracy looking for an opportunity.

james

November 1st, 2012
2:44 pm

no evidence, james….

“even the article to which you linked gives no examples of preachers directly or indirectly endorsing candidates. in other words”

Please refer to paragraph seven:

“That – along with the opportunity to re-elect Obama, who many in the black community feel would not have been so stonewalled by Republicans in Congress if he were white – is what Thompson is counting on in his push for early voting.”

It states pretty clearly that Pastor Thompson is counting on “the opportunity to re-elect Obama”.

But if that is not good enough, how about this article titled “Black Pastors Meet in Va. to Discuss Support for Obama

“A group of black pastors in Virginia held a meeting to discuss how to encourage their congregations to vote for President Barack Obama.
Around two dozen clergy from various churches in the area met for two hours on Saturday in Chesapeake, discussing possible ideas for motivating support for Obama among their congregations. “We are concerned that many of our congregants are developing an aversion to supporting the president at the polls,” read the invite email, which was sent out last month.”

http://www.christianpost.com/news/black-pastors-meet-in-va-to-discuss-support-for-obama-81083/#rCwqMoSCGO3bkiDk.99

Ironically, it appears that Michelle Obama herself thinks that church is a great place for political activism and you can watch the video yourself:

“here is no better place than church to talk about political issues because they are ultimately moral issues, First Lady Michelle Obama told a church gathering on Thursday.
“To anyone who says that church is no place to talk about these issues, you tell them there is no place better – no place better,” Obama told the African Methodist Episcopal Church’s 49th general conference, held in in Nashville, Tenn.
“Because ultimately, these are not just political issues – they are moral issues,” she said. “They’re issues that have to do with human dignity and human potential, and the future we want for our kids and our grandkids.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/michelle-obama-theres-no-place-better-than-church-to-talk-about-political-issues/

Feel free to shout some more nonsense in caps, but you are wrong.

bookman parrot

November 1st, 2012
2:45 pm

Jay “falseness”,
When you start ripping into the lib political machine that is contained within the southern black church, then i might lend your ramblings some creedence. but until then, you are a hypocrite.
And as for a church stating their opinion on political matters, they still aren’t in the polling place with you, so your “point” is totally invalid.
And again you play sematics with church related “businesses” not wanting to go against moral objections. but in lib world, everything goes, including the opposing views right to do so.
you are the worst kind of hypocrite.

jconservative

November 1st, 2012
2:45 pm

AJC – Oct. 10, 2012 – By Bill Rankin

“The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Atlanta has joined dozens of other religious institutions to have filed lawsuits seeking to overturn the so-called birth control mandate in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.”

“Christ the King Catholic School, Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Atlanta and the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Savannah are also plaintiffs in the litigation. It was filed against the Labor, Treasury and Health and Human Services departments.”

bob

November 1st, 2012
2:46 pm

If preachers preaching politics in the pulpit is bad, what about politicians that preach from the pulpit ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FlpbRFXC9E
You can’t keep a dem politician away from a black church close to election day.

seabeau

November 1st, 2012
2:46 pm

Mr. Obama has needed no help in making himself look bad! Either of his Fast and Furious Scandal or his instructions to the Justice Dept. not to proscute DOMA violation could insure impeachment proceedings. Libya is just the icing on the cake of his ineptness! Where were the Marines Mr. Obama???

Tom

November 1st, 2012
2:47 pm

I live in East Cobb and have had several encounters with Randy Mickler. He is totally insane. As well as an idiot: why anybody would care about the opinions of somebody as ignorant as him is beyond understanding.

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:47 pm

Brosephus, you sure make a fine liberal. A typical liberal, but a fine one nonetheless.

I’ll keep your recommendation in mind if I ever decide to become a liberal.

————–

Moderate Line

I am who I am, so if you pay attention to what I say, I am quite easy to predict. What’s your point?

Don Abernethy

November 1st, 2012
2:48 pm

Most African American pastors push Obama from the pulpit.

stands for decibels

November 1st, 2012
2:48 pm

Can someone with the patience of a saint please explain to some of the learning-disabled here that saying stuff like “Golly Darn America” isn’t partisan? Doesn’t endorse a candidate or party?

kthnx.

Doggone/GA

November 1st, 2012
2:49 pm

“Most African American pastors push Obama from the pulpit”

Got proof?

james

November 1st, 2012
2:49 pm

In case anyone missed it in the longer comment, here is Michelle Obama giving a vigorous defense of “politics from the pulpit” with accompanying video:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/michelle-obama-theres-no-place-better-than-church-to-talk-about-political-issues/

I suppose all of the folks bashing religion here will criticize her comments. Oh, who am I kidding. No they won’t :)

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:49 pm

That sounds like a bunch of crap! lol

Coming from someone who obviously is quite familiar with crap, I’ll take that as a compliment.

stands for decibels

November 1st, 2012
2:50 pm

And my “james” @ 2.49, do you not recognize that one can speak of political issues without endorsing a specific candidate or party?

Excuses

November 1st, 2012
2:50 pm

“Most African American pastors push Obama from the pulpit.”

And you have heard on tv, radio and in person how many of these preachers to make the extrapolation to “most”?

Doggone/GA

November 1st, 2012
2:50 pm

“I suppose all of the folks bashing religion here will criticize her comments”

Bashing the people who profess to be of a given religion is not bashing the religion.

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:52 pm

So, what’s the deal with the focus on the Black Church all of a sudden? Are y’all afraid to deal with your own demons and feel more comfortable pointing out the faults of others?

:lol:

Aquagirl

November 1st, 2012
2:52 pm

Most African American pastors push Obama from the pulpit.

And you know this how? Your constant attendance in numerous African-American churches?

File that post under “paranoid talking out his butt.”

stands for decibels

November 1st, 2012
2:53 pm

(Of course you may have thought the Tuskegee Experiment was simply a good first step)

for the record, that’s pretty much my default presumption of those morons who continue to bring up Wright in twenty freakin’ twelve.

The guy stepped down from his pastorship nearly four years ago, fercryinoutloud.

CJ

November 1st, 2012
2:53 pm

Why should tax exempt companies be barred from practicing freedom of speech?

To be clear, tax exempt organizations have freedom of speech, and when it comes to political issues (e.g., abortion and contraception), they take full advantage of such freedoms.

However, to achieve tax-exempt status, such organizations made a choice not to endorse or advocate on behalf of individual politicians or political parties. They made that choice in exchange for avoiding taxes that the rest of us have to pay. In other words, they’re getting a financial benefit not available to others in exchange, in part, for staying out elections.

Why? Because otherwise, all taxpayers would be subsidizing institutions that are directly involved in elections, whether or not we agree with the persons or parties that those institutions are politicking on behalf of. I don’t want to subsidize a Methodist preacher politicking for Mitt Romney any more than others want to subsidize a Catholic nun politicking for President Obama (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/05/catholic-nun-brings-her-star-power-to-dnc/).

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:53 pm

Most African American pastors push Obama from the pulpit.

http://www.kait8.com/story/19572911/black-clergy-across-country-discouraging-congregations-from-voting

MEMPHIS, TN (WMC-TV) – Ministers across the country are stirring up controversy after telling members of their congregations not to vote for President Barack Obama because he supports gay marriage.

President Obama’s recent stance on same-sex marriage is creating a lot of controversy amongst some clergy. Now, many of them may consider staying home come November.

According to the Associated Press, some black clergy may not want to vote for a presidential candidate who supports gay marriage, so they are telling their parishioners to stay home on Election Day.

:roll:

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

November 1st, 2012
2:54 pm

In case anyone missed it in the longer comment, here is Michelle Obama giving a vigorous defense of “politics from the pulpit” with accompanying video:

[...]

I suppose all of the folks bashing religion here will criticize her comments. Oh, who am I kidding. No they won’t

In case you missed it I said, “TAX ‘EM ALL!”

I suppose you will now acknowledge that I posted that before your silly rant. Oh, who am I kidding. No you wont.

Moderate Line

November 1st, 2012
2:54 pm

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:49 pm
That sounds like a bunch of crap! lol

Coming from someone who obviously is quite familiar with crap, I’ll take that as a compliment.
+++++
Snappy!

Doggone/GA

November 1st, 2012
2:54 pm

“Are y’all afraid to deal with your own demons and feel more comfortable pointing out the faults of others?”

Easy answer…Yes

JohnnyReb

November 1st, 2012
2:54 pm

I see Jay is still supporting and believing the ridiculous lie from the Obama administration that insurance paid for by Catholic churches is not really paying for contraceptives and abortions.

Thus the term, Moonbat.

Goldie

November 1st, 2012
2:56 pm

These so-called religious leaders have a few screws loose — and no wonder the wingnut pro-fetus supporters have such a difficult time connecting to the real world.

And I wonder how many of these same preachers and priests stood up for the “sanctity of life” when it came time for their guy Dubya to invade Iraq and slaughter so many civilians in that country, all because they lived on top of all that oil!

:(

JamVet

November 1st, 2012
2:56 pm

Make the charlatans and snake oil salesmen put up or shut up.

Either way, America wins.

Sadly, Christianity has gone down the toilet. And the list of TV perverts and radio conmen who wear $3000 Italian suits and hide their disgusting ideology of hatred and intolerance behind the pulpits is damn near endless now.

Particularity here in Dixie where the southern Baptist churches absolutely fed the KKK and other White Power organizations with members. And still do…

james

November 1st, 2012
2:56 pm

Doggone –

“Got proof?”

How about this poll from Pew Research, which is as non-partisan as it gets:

“Black Protestants are far more likely than white Protestants or Catholics to say they are hearing about the candidates and the importance of voting, and the messages they are hearing overwhelmingly favor Barack Obama.”

“Nearly eight-in-ten (79%) black Protestant churchgoers say their clergy have spoken out about the importance of voting, compared with about half of white evangelical Protestant (52%) and white Catholic (46%) churchgoers. ”

Black Protestants are twice as likely as churchgoers overall to be hearing about the candidates at church. Among regular churchgoers, four-in-ten (40%) black Protestants say their clergy have spoken directly about the candidates, compared with 17% of white Catholics, 12% of white evangelicals and just 5% of white mainline Protestants.”

Pretty funny. Even though more than three times as many black Protestant say they have heard about the candidates from their clergy than Catholics, Bookman focuses on the Catholics. It is almost as if he is cherry picking facts to support his personal political views ;)

CJ

November 1st, 2012
2:57 pm

insurance paid for by Catholic churches is not really paying for contraceptives and abortions

You’re confusing churches with hospitals. To be clear, a hospital is not a church, regardless of who owns it.

Joe Hussein Mama

November 1st, 2012
2:57 pm

Bishop Jenky — “Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord. They are objectively guilty of grave sin.”

Just so you know, Bishop, as an atheist, I do not sin. I am immune to it and invulnerable to it. What you believe to be sin simply does not exist for or to me.

Or, as my wife puts it, it’s YOUR hell, so YOU go there.

Goldie

November 1st, 2012
2:58 pm

Why should churches receive a tax-exempt status any more???

:)

JohnnyReb

November 1st, 2012
2:58 pm

And BTW, I can’t find a polite word to describe anyone who believes Obama set in Jeremiah’s church for 20 years, embraced him into the family yet does not believe that which Jeremiah preaches.

james

November 1st, 2012
2:58 pm

Kamchak – Believe it or not, the conversation does not rotate around your grunting in caps and there are other folks here besides you. I know it is crazy to believe either of those facts, but please excuse me.

Mick

November 1st, 2012
2:59 pm

I’m glad I’m a retired catholic…they need to focus on; why is that there is such a worldwide problem with priests and young boys??? Not isolated incidents but worldwide, stay the hell out of politics or just go to hell…

Moderate Line

November 1st, 2012
2:59 pm

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
2:52 pm
So, what’s the deal with the focus on the Black Church all of a sudden? Are y’all afraid to deal with your own demons and feel more comfortable pointing out the faults of others?
++++
That sounds like a bunch of crap. I believe people are simply pointing out that black churches have been poltically active and no one on the left has said anything.

STEVIE RAY

November 1st, 2012
3:00 pm

JAY

Now look what you did…you stirred up all the pent-up race baiting:-)

Guess you didn’t anticipate that eh?

I often wonder if Obama loses will we see violence in the streets? With all the bullhorning of the race thingy (color and class) it concerns me..especially when many are banging the race drum harder the closer to the election we get..

james

November 1st, 2012
3:00 pm

Brosephus – You do understand the difference between “most” and “some”, right?

Brosephus™

November 1st, 2012
3:00 pm

Let’s see…

US Catholic population = 68 million
US Black Baptist population = 10 million

Yet, the focus here is on a group that’s 1 out of every 30 people in this country while completely ignoring the group that’s 1 out of every 5. This is some truly comical crap at how some of y’all get bent out of shape over a group that makes up 16% of the entire population of the US.

Are y’all really that afraid of Black people?

curious

November 1st, 2012
3:01 pm

Totally impractical for Obama to attempt, but after Romney is elected, there needs to be serious discussion about the tax exemption status of churches.

Someone earlier today commented on Rev lowery’s Mercedes. he didn’t get that by being a humble preacher. Just like Rev Graham and his son in the family business.

JohnnyReb

November 1st, 2012
3:01 pm

CJ – I see you drank the cool-aide. If the hospital is run by Catholics, it’s a Catholic hospital. Don’t be a lemming.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

November 1st, 2012
3:01 pm

“The ban on politics from the pulpit all but gone now”

Amen, Hallelujah, Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition !!!

Luke Chapter 13:

“31At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. (King) Herod (the civil political ruler of Jerusalem) wants to kill you.”

32He replied, “Go tell that FOX (emphasis added), ‘I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ ”

Translation:

Civil authorities mind your own business !!!

Erwin's cat

November 1st, 2012
3:01 pm

TAX ‘EM ALL!

and University endowments as well