The ban on politics from the pulpit all but gone now
Bishop Daniel Janky
Some of you may recall Bishop Daniel Jenky, head of a Catholic diocese in Illinois, who during Mass last April likened President Obama and Senate Democrats to Hitler and Stalin. He also asked God to “have mercy especially on the souls of those politicians who pretend to be Catholic in church, but in their public lives, rather like Judas Iscariot, betray Jesus Christ.”
Now, on the eve of the election, Jenky has sent a message to every priest in his diocese, telling them that “By virtue of your vow of obedience to me as your bishop, I require that this letter be personally read by each celebrating priest at each Weekend Mass, November 3/4.”
The mandatory letter states:
Dear Catholic Believers,
Since the foundation of the American Republic and the adoption of the Bill of Rights, I do not think there has ever been a time more threatening to our religious liberty than the present. Neither the president of the United States nor the current majority of the Federal Senate have been willing to even consider the Catholic community’s grave objections to those HHS mandates that would require all Catholic institutions, exempting only our church buildings, to fund abortion, sterilization, and artificial contraception.
This assault upon our religious freedom is simply without precedent in the American political and legal system. Contrary to the guarantees embedded in the First Amendment, the HHS mandates attempt to now narrowly define and thereby drastically limit our traditional religious works. They grossly and intentionally intrude upon the deeply held moral convictions that have always guided our Catholic schools, hospitals, and other apostolic ministries.
Nearly two thousand years ago, after our Savior had been bound, beaten, scourged, mocked, and crowned with thorns, a pagan Roman procurator displayed Jesus to a hostile crowd by sarcastically declaring: ‘Behold your King.’ The mob roared back: We have no king but Caesar. Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord. They are objectively guilty of grave sin.
For those who hope for salvation, no political loyalty can ever take precedence over loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ and to his Gospel of Life. God is not mocked, and as the Bible clearly teaches, after this passing instant of life on earth, God’s great mercy in time will give way to God’s perfect judgment in eternity.
I therefore call upon every practicing Catholic in this Diocese to vote. Be faithful to Christ and to your Catholic Faith. May God guide and protect his Holy Church, and may God bless America.
It is important to note that Jenky’s description is wrong or incomplete on several points. The health-insurance coverage requirement does not apply to churches or church employees involved in its religious mission. It applies only to any secular operation by the church, such as hospitals and universities, just as it would apply to any other business.
More importantly, the policy does not require coverage of abortion. It does require that policies include contraception methods that block implantation of a fertilized egg in the womb, which the church considers abortion.
Jenky is not alone in such statements. Nicholas DiMarzio, a Catholic bishop in New York, expressed similar sentiments last week, warning parishioners that “It is inconceivable to me how Catholics could support such policies. Indeed, Roman Catholics who support abortion rights and vote for a candidate because of those policies, place him/herself outside of the life of the church. In so doing, they also place themselves in moral danger.”
“Is it possible to vote for somebody despite their support for these policies?” DiMarzio asks. “To my mind, it stretches the imagination, especially when there is another option.”
Nor are such statements confined to the Catholic leadership. For example, the Rev. Randy Mickler, head pastor of Mount Bethel United Methodist Church in Marietta, touched on multiple political topics in his Oct. 21 sermon:
In his message, Mickler tells his congregation (9:20 in the posted video) directly accuses President Obama of showing “great hostility toward Christianity, and at times an encouragement toward Islam,” rattling off a long list of alleged such actions, many if not most factually questionable.
For example, Mickler claimed that in June of 2012, the Obama administration banned the use of Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps emblems on Bibles to be distributed by the government to our troops. He did not mention that it did so under threat of a lawsuit by a group making the reasonable point that imprinting U.S. government symbols on Bibles could be interpreted as government approval. The Bibles are still being distributed, just as they always have been, but absent the military emblems.
‘I’m not telling you whom to vote for,” Mickler says. “I don’t think God cares who wins this election as much as he cares about how we reflect Christian integrity in a voting booth. It is ridiculous to think that we can divorce our faith from our actions and say, this is secular and this is sacred.”
He also tells the congregation that they face a quandary. “I’m not telling you to vote for the Mormon,” he says. “The Mormon is not a Christian. According to the National Council of Churches, that is a sect, not a religion.”
Technically, federal law still prohibits churches and other groups that enjoy tax-free nonprofit status from engaging in partisan politics. In practice, though, that law is seldom if ever enforced because the political cost of doing so would be prohibitive. And while I don’t have a major problem with that turn of events and accept it as inevitable, I think violating federal law was always one of the more minor risks that religious leaders take when they so flagrantly entangle their churches with the sordid world of partisan politics.
Once you step into that political world, the rules change significantly, and I’m not talking federal or state law.
UPDATE: I put this in comments below, but I’ll add it here as well:
It’s perfectly legitimate to question the mixing of politics and religion in the black church, although I think you also have to acknowledge how the tradition arose. For a long long time, going well back into slavery, the church was the only black institution through which the black political voice could be expressed, and black church leaders the only representatives that the white establishment respected. Separating church and state was not an option to a community allowed only a religious voice.
That said, it is impossible as a legal and practical matter — and as a matter of fairness — to allow that to continue in black churches while trying to enforce the pulpit/politics ban in other institutions. That’s in part why I wrote above that the ban is basically a dead letter from here on out.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
748 comments Add your comment
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:55 pm
Enter your comments here
Doggone/GA
November 1st, 2012
3:56 pm
“Doggone: Apparently there was a loophole. As long as the charities “self insure” under state law, they can be exempted from having to provide birth control.”
The whole issue came up during the Sandra Fluke episode. The church that runs the school she attends provided insurance to their staff and teachers that provided birth control pills. Her complaint was that they refused to ALSO provide it to the students. And THEN they tried to claim “religious objections”
Yeah, right.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:57 pm
You think the New York Times has an agenda ……. to say the least ?
straitroad
November 1st, 2012
3:57 pm
Jay, I stand corrected. And I give you credit for pulling Kam’s post. I thought you only reserved that for us “cons”. Have a good evening.
Verbal Kint
November 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
I heard in a second Obama term, we’ll get a ‘Secretary of Business’. Isn’t that what the Secretary of Commerce is?? Seriously? I hope this is a one term president because if that’s the best he’s got…
josef
November 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
The pulpit has been used for centuries to damn and demonize those not like the congregants…what Lowery said could have just as easily been from thousands of pulpits across Europe just a few decades back. Verbatim. Just change “white people” to “Jews.” The same for the tailibanists now. And on and on…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
What ?
Kammie pulled ?
Oh, the horror !
The ban on politics from the pulpit all but gone now – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Best News Feed - Daily News Magazine
November 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
I believe that the people who are bringing up the black churches are merely showing how the people on the left are hypocritical when attacking churches.
If that is the case, as it’s always explained here, when are those who are claiming hypocrisy ever going to address the mess in their front yard before whining about the neighbor’s messy yard?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A3-5&version=NKJV
Matthew 7:3-5
“3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
All I’m asking, and pointing out, is that Jay’s called a hypocrite 7 days a week, yet very few on the Right ever own up to their own shortcomings. I have seen more on the left acknowledge theirs here as opposed to those on the right. Granted, this is a left-leaning blog and most righties come here in full battle gear and in attack mode.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
4:00 pm
I thought you only reserved that for us “cons”.
I’ve had at least a dozen posts pulled.
Geez….
Nancy
November 1st, 2012
4:00 pm
Lucifer: “If you don’t believe in the supernatural you can’t be intimidated by it.”
I just think your quote is golden. It really defines FAITH. Brilliant!!
weetamoe
November 1st, 2012
4:00 pm
Eliminate all non-profits–including churches.
Criticism of churches on secular grounds–such as political campaigning–is warranted, but deriding traditions and articles of faith smells of bigotry. I have been ridiculed for fasting during holy days and I know bright young seminarians to whom celibacy is not a deal breaker when it comes to one’s vocation.
straitroad
November 1st, 2012
4:00 pm
There seems to be a lot of googling of bible verses going on right now. Jay, you may have inadvertently saved a lost soul with this thread.
INDY
November 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
In listening to the entire clip, Rev. Mickler’s arguments seemed to be that the label of Christian applied to a politician him/her. He sees evidence of hostility towards Christianity in the President’s actions (like Jay, I think some of these deserve a much fuller context). He notes that Romney’s faith is not uniformly viewed as a Christian denomination (but instead a sect) based on some of its core tenets. And he challenges Christians to be wary of trying to convince themselves that what’s sacred and secular can be easily parsed. Perhaps it’s not the most eloquently expressed, but hardly anything new there in the realm of a pastor challenging a Christian congregation.
He seems to be identifying the perils of complete separation of church and state, but his focus is more on how this happens in the mind of the individual than on endorsements from the pulpit. If you think that church and state can be cleanly separated, you likely find fault with his approach. If you think separation is more complex and not necessarily clean, you at least understand the idea even if you don’t identify with the Christian perspective in which it’s cast.
JamVet
November 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
Are y’all really that afraid of Black people?
That would be a resounding yes!
Today’s southern, white “Christian” males are more terrified of blacks than ever.
Just read this forum for proof.
The Rebs can no longer keep those people in their place, nor can they keep them from voting. Like the used to. Though tthey can still call them uppity, right Mr. Westmoreland?
Thus the cons hate liberals and other people of conscience and reason for helping minorities gain their rightful place in American society.
THIS explains why the cons are 90%+ white.
And why white Jews and other groups of whites cannot stand these American fascists in today’s GOP…
They BOTH suck
November 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
Scout
No need for deflection. You posted an article in some effort to prove a point. It took all of 15 seconds for me to find information that the organization was a Republican backed organization and no the “non partisan” org they attempt to sell themselves as.
You like to “call them like you see them”. Apparently you did not “see” who conducted the poll and my guess is that you didn’t care. It meet your narrative and you ran with it
straitroad
November 1st, 2012
4:02 pm
I’ve had at least a dozen posts pulled.
Geez….
You should get a coupon or some sort of recognition for that accomplishment!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
4:02 pm
And for the record, the post of mine that Jay just pulled has only words that
Josephmike has used here many times.ragnar danneskjold
November 1st, 2012
4:03 pm
Der Deegee @ 3:28, no, quite the opposite, the government “forbids” me from doing it. Regulation of free speech – against anyone, even crazy leftist college professors – is a slippery slope we should avoid.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
4:04 pm
straitroad — “There seems to be a lot of googling of bible verses going on right now. Jay, you may have inadvertently saved a lost soul with this thread.”
Critical reading skills should protect against that.
Moderate Line
November 1st, 2012
4:04 pm
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:42 pm
EC
I think it’s because the state tax and other taxes are all earned income based. When you get into the higher income levels, they come less from earned income and more from dividends, carried interest, and other things that are not subjected to payroll or state taxes.
+++++
Here is something I thnk you would find interesting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
4:05 pm
I hate liars, hypocrites, and people who take advantage of people who care about them
unknown
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
4:05 pm
You think the Washington Post has an agenda ……. to say the least ?
paulo977
November 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
Did Bloomberg just endorse Obama? …….
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
“And for the record, the post of mine that Jay just pulled has only words that Joseph mike has used here many times.”
Oooops! Kammie is claiming bias.
They BOTH suck
November 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
Scout
Did I post either or you just being a baby again?
When I do post one of those two let me know.
Thanks
Sandy
November 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
These religious leaders can do and say what they want to and the people will also do and say what they want to. The people are not robots doing the bidding of the leaders.
Just because someone makes a suggestion or develops an intellectual argument does not mean that people will automatically drop their own ideas and beliefs and agree with these leaders. The people in the USA are more afraid of what you say than what you do it appears to me.
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
And here comes ZamVet with his own bigotries on show…I’m telling you, Southerners are statistically superior to their northern cousins in that most important category known to mankind…
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
Mod – Here is something I think you would find interesting.
ya think?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 1st, 2012
4:07 pm
I’ve never had a post pulled for here…is that like a badge of honor?
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:08 pm
Moderate Line
That’s the post that started the conversation. When all taxes are accounted for, most income groups pay close to the same percentages. Only when the fed income tax is discussed on it’s own does it seem that the well to do are getting hit over the head more than others. The fed rates are used to level out the effects of all taxes to ensure we all have equal skin in the game overall.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
S. Ray — “I’ve never had a post pulled for here…is that like a badge of honor?”
It’s kind of like a Purple Heart. You got so worked up about something that one of your posts crossed the line of acceptability, so Jay shot it dead.
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
STEVIE
Is it a badge of honor? You betcha!
Matti
November 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
josef @ 4:06,
Thank-you notes?
Adam
November 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
Stevie Ray: I had one pulled once. It was me laughing at a zombie apocalypse video game that took place in Fox News headquarters.
And I STILL think it’s funny. BOOM.
ragnar danneskjold
November 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
Dear Indigo @ 3:44, agree, except that you and I probably disagree on the breadth of issues addressed by the Bible.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
4:10 pm
…is that like a badge of honor?
That badge is reserved for those getting a one day ban red card.
AmericaShrugged
November 1st, 2012
4:10 pm
Thanks Jamvet for another stupid, biased post. Now please tell us what explains why 95%+ of blacks are lib/Dems?
They BOTH suck
November 1st, 2012
4:10 pm
Scout
From your beloved Fox News……………………
Glad I could assist. Don’t mention it. Any time, buddy.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/09/why-american-jews-will-stick-with-tradition-on-election-day/
Peace
November 1st, 2012
4:10 pm
Jay @ 2:33
Nice try. Probably very uncomfortable with both left feet in your mouth.
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:10 pm
“You got so worked up about something that one of your posts crossed the line of acceptability”
Either that or you just turned around and called somebody not put in moderation what they called you.
Adam
November 1st, 2012
4:10 pm
Now please tell us what explains why 95%+ of blacks are lib/Dems?
Policy
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:11 pm
paulo
Yep…
Jay
November 1st, 2012
4:11 pm
I do what I can, straitroad. :>)
Georgia
November 1st, 2012
4:11 pm
Election Issue #1: Mission Creep. (Romnission Creep). The separation of Islam and Christianity is the issue, because the two are Geo-Theo-Socio mirrors of each other. Both religions combine the civic duty (geo-political) with the Theo-Socio (define evil and attack) duty. That’s why there was mission creep in Iraq and Afghanistan. We kept honing the mission to conform with some sort of presumed righteousness pulled out of each other’s butts.
and there’s no way to remove our flag from the Temple Mount. Iraq was a sacrilege too far. Admit we’re at war, America. Romney? Come on. Declare the war three months before you take office.
Peter
November 1st, 2012
4:11 pm
Li’l Aynie . You mean Jesus didn’t adorn himself with GOLD like the church does ?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
4:11 pm
Sport !
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
4:11 pm
The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that’s also a hypocrite!
Tennessee Williams
St Simons
November 1st, 2012
4:12 pm
what a principled stand by the dude in the big hat, mon.
but if he don’t refuse all the medicare, VA and Tricare reimbursements,
then he’s a big fat ol’ hypocrite.
“those hypocrites…” — that Jesus dude, he didn’t like em
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:12 pm
Matti…
Well, yeah, sorta!
Moderate Line
November 1st, 2012
4:12 pm
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
I believe that the people who are bringing up the black churches are merely showing how the people on the left are hypocritical when attacking churches.
If that is the case, as it’s always explained here, when are those who are claiming hypocrisy ever going to address the mess in their front yard before whining about the neighbor’s messy yard?
All I’m asking, and pointing out, is that Jay’s called a hypocrite 7 days a week, yet very few on the Right ever own up to their own shortcomings. I have seen more on the left acknowledge theirs here as opposed to those on the right. Granted, this is a left-leaning blog and most righties come here in full battle gear and in attack mode.
++++
I think you have a legitimate point. However, I think Jay could probably deflect some of the charges of hypocrisy by bringing up the failings of the left. John Stewart is on the left but he attacks the hypocrisy of both sides.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
4:12 pm
Either that or you just turned around and called somebody not put in moderation what they called you.
In just about every sport, it’s always the retaliation that is called out and not the initial blow.
Adam
November 1st, 2012
4:13 pm
“Broad brush” is what I say when I am a statistical outlier and have no other defense against what the majority of my party thinks
-Erwin
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
4:13 pm
” ……… and they brought Him gifts of gold frankincense and myrrh.”
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:14 pm
That badge is reserved for those getting a one day ban red card.
I haven’t gotten that medal yet, though I’ve seen posts go into moderation because of language, tone, etc..
—————
Now please tell us what explains why 95%+ of blacks are lib/Dems?
History and ideology
Matti
November 1st, 2012
4:14 pm
Scout @ 4:13,
Did Mary write thank-you notes?
Moderate Line
November 1st, 2012
4:15 pm
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:08 pm
Moderate Line
That’s the post that started the conversation. When all taxes are accounted for, most income groups pay close to the same percentages. Only when the fed income tax is discussed on it’s own does it seem that the well to do are getting hit over the head more than others. The fed rates are used to level out the effects of all taxes to ensure we all have equal skin in the game overall.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
The funny thing is the 80-99 are the ones getting hosed by the 1%.
Glenn
November 1st, 2012
4:15 pm
Newt Gingrich & Sean Hannity are Catholic . Neither of those guys has a shot at heaven . Funny I never have known priests to chose or rate sins before this article . Good read .
detritusUSA
November 1st, 2012
4:16 pm
I must add that the Billy Graham organization recently proclaimed that Mormons are no longer on their list of cults. Conveniently just prior to the election so all the church goers could vote for a non-christian with a clear conscience.
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:16 pm
K’CHAK
I keep forgetting that blogging is a contact sport…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
4:17 pm
In a way ……….. yes:
Luke Chapter 1:
46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
51 He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
52 He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
53 He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
55 to Abraham and his descendants forever,
just as he promised our ancestors.”
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
4:17 pm
Adam
….there is a formula that determines what is and isn’t an outlier..
Who said that anyway?…
cloudodust
November 1st, 2012
4:17 pm
I just know the good Rev. Wright got the same ink from this blog…Just know it. And then comes the good Rev. Lowery. The same good Rev that while walking the streets of Atlanta during the Rodney King stampede had a white photographer with him that became a ‘victim’ of said rage and the good Rev didn’t try to stop the mob. His words to the photog was, “I can’t help you.”…Look it up.
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:18 pm
Matti
Well, yes, “thank you Balthazar. Ya can nevuh have enough myrrh!”
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:18 pm
Moderate Line
Jay has gone off on the left before. It’s not a standard practice though, but he has been critical of the left. I would expect that more if he carried a national audience, but as a newspaper opinionist, I don’t expect him to go that route very often. That’s just me though, and one of the reasons why I frequent left and right blogs and sites.
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:19 pm
cloudodust
Don’t agree with you very often, but @ 4:17…yep.
Adam
November 1st, 2012
4:19 pm
“Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.””
Matthew 19:21-24
Adam
November 1st, 2012
4:20 pm
Who said that anyway?…
Your OWNER
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:20 pm
Moderate Line
The funny thing is the 80-99 are the ones getting hosed by the 1%.
That’s what happens when you don’t pay attention. It also helps to be able to afford a politician or two.
godless heathen
November 1st, 2012
4:21 pm
The damn shame is that the hurricane took out all the Call of Duty: Black Ops game servers so I can’t even do that. Still being sick I can’t take a walk……… hmmmmmm I wonder if Yahoo still has online games like Chess?
You can still play Poker Stars online for free. And their servers are overseas.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
4:23 pm
A. Shrugged — “Thanks Jamvet for another stupid, biased post. Now please tell us what explains why 95%+ of blacks are lib/Dems?”
It’s in the contract.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 1st, 2012
4:24 pm
MODERATE LINE
I read Kleins article and can’t dispute but I think he neglected the one of the key issues (none of the rhetoric about “fair share”, as far as I know, are referencing anything other than federal taxes), which is the proportion of the total tax burden which is ridiculously skewed toward the top 20% pay 80% of the taxes…I acknowledge all the facts that this same group controls most of the booty…
The trend line on which income group pays the burden of federal tax has trended toward the top 20% paying more and more of the total tax burden…for example, In 1980, for example, the top 5 percent of income earners paid only 37 percent of all income taxes. Today, the top 1 percent pay that proportion, and the top 5 percent pay a whopping 57 percent.
I think this is one of the problems “rich” folks have but I think the more important concern is that our government wastes a pile of it…theoretically, one could argue that the amount we spend beyond what we take in is a case in point…the current proposal to increase taxes on those 1%’ers (technically 550K and up) will bring in 80 billion a year..its’ already been spent..
Quite a puzzle
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
4:25 pm
Adam:
Good verses and true:
By the way, “eye of the needle” in all probability was the name given to the very small entrance that many walled cities had at that time. All of the main gates would be closed at night for safety but a very small gate/opening that could be easily defended might be left open for travelers, etc. A small camel might even be able to pass through the opening rather than having to be left outside ………. a difficult but not impossible happening.
barking frog
November 1st, 2012
4:25 pm
Congress shall make no law..
includes tax law. It’s about time
religions stood up and said it is
the government that is restricted
not the religions.
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
4:26 pm
Adam
Is that an actual Schrodinger quote?…or was I once name jacked and not know it…or too drunk to remember………..if it’s the latter it’s a remarkable response given my condition
seriously, I never wrote that …that I recall
Jack
November 1st, 2012
4:26 pm
I never thought I’d hear anyone defend Rev Wright: Proves to me that liberals are pretty desperate.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 1st, 2012
4:27 pm
JOE,
Great perspective on the underpinings of the “red card”…I know I get worked up sometimes..
ADAM
Not completely understanding your Fox red card experience…can you elaborate?
Williebkind
November 1st, 2012
4:27 pm
Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the ‘wall of separation between church and state,’ therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”
― Thomas Jefferson
For the love of humanity I do not get what liberals get out of this. It does not mean anything that Jay and the far left cry out.
The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”
― James Madison
Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end–where all men and all churches are treated as equal–where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice–where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind–and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.
John F. Kennedy
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 1st, 2012
4:28 pm
ERWIN
So does the cat die or what?
gadem
November 1st, 2012
4:29 pm
So the Catholic bishop would rather vote for a cult member as opposed to a Christian? What GOD does that bishop serve?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
November 1st, 2012
4:30 pm
Can someone who feels that religion should not be separated from state…or better, what constitutes such a breach?
ad
November 1st, 2012
4:30 pm
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
4:32 pm
B. Frog — “Congress shall make no law..
includes tax law.”
FWIW, Congress has made PLENTY of laws that impact directly on the First Amendment, and the SCOTUS has upheld them in quite a few decisions.
“It’s about time
religions stood up and said it is
the government that is restricted
not the religions.”
Religions also don’t have any *rights* under the Constitution. The Constitution addresses the Federal Government, the governments of the States and We, The People. T’ain’t nothing in there about what a religion’s allowed to do or what rights it might have.
Williebkind
November 1st, 2012
4:32 pm
All seperation of church and state means in any context is that the U.S. cannot have a state-sponsored church that all of its citizens are forced to be a part of. The keyword here is forced! I do have a right to be a christain on federal property, state property or anywhere I travel across the great country.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
4:34 pm
S. Ray — “So does the cat die or what?”
It was alive when I last looked in the box.
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
4:34 pm
Stevie…ya got to open the box to find out…I’d prefer you didn’t
it’s a metaphor of my political leanings (cat both dead and alive at the same time)..I’m mostly conservative, but have my liberal tendencies….not until I take a position will I know which.
I haven’t associated with a party in years, but was an R…until they left me
ad
November 1st, 2012
4:34 pm
I like how Christians trot out that the “eye of the needle” is a reference to the entrance of a city. I mean, every other phrase in the Bible is absolute truth – no room for interpretation at all. The world was created in 6 days, Adam was the first man, water was turned into wine, but, when it came to the “eye of the needle” the Bible went all metaphorical. Cherry pickin’ at its best.
They BOTH suck
November 1st, 2012
4:35 pm
gadem
Who is a cult member?
Williebkind
November 1st, 2012
4:35 pm
It is idiotic to believe the values and ideals of religion, especially one that is the choice majority of this country now and at its inception, can’t contribute to the way that the country deals with its own citizens and people abroad.
AmericaShrugged
November 1st, 2012
4:35 pm
The answer is more like civil rights and welfare, the LBJ legacy….” African Americans’ attitudes could
be described as anti-war, evangelical, with a strong concern about civil rights. They
were suspicious of trendy political ideas and environmental concerns. They
note that although the social issues highlighted in the election such as abortion and
gay marriage were important to African Americans, they were not issues central to
African Americans as a group. Instead, the Democratic Party itself was associated
with progressive causes, like welfare, that were perceived to be of more central
importance to African Americans.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:36 pm
I do have a right to be a christain[sic] on federal property, state property or anywhere I travel across the great country.
But you don’t have a right to force you (C)hristianity upon those who do not share your belief system.
cloudodust
November 1st, 2012
4:37 pm
josef—Thx.
Williebkind
November 1st, 2012
4:37 pm
“eye of the needle”
do you know what it means? Do you know what it is referencing? Google camel trough.
TaxPayer
November 1st, 2012
4:37 pm
The least one should expect from a preacher’s sermon on a politically motivated topic is more honesty than that delivered by Mitt.
Williebkind
November 1st, 2012
4:37 pm
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:36 pm
You sure dont!
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 1st, 2012
4:38 pm
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
Let’s see…
US Catholic population = 68 million
US Black Baptist population = 10 million
Are y’all really that afraid of Black people?
————————————————————————————
I’m more afraid of Catholics, specially the penguins LOL
I still carry the scars
You back at your Race Baiting I see you are a Master at it so I guess that makes you what?
josef
November 1st, 2012
4:38 pm
FROG
“It’s about time
religions stood up and said it is
the government that is restricted
not the religions.”
Yep.
JamVet
November 1st, 2012
4:38 pm
Now please tell us what explains why 95%+ of blacks are lib/Dems?
For the umpteenth time this year?
Are you one of those particularly dense Randians?
LOL!
(Hint, read up on fascism.)
Williebkind
November 1st, 2012
4:39 pm
Just because you dont believe does it means it has to be abandoned altogether. But it is because the morals taught by the bible conflict with progressive liberal morals and agendas.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
4:40 pm
NoCom
Bite me!!!!