The ban on politics from the pulpit all but gone now
Bishop Daniel Janky
Some of you may recall Bishop Daniel Jenky, head of a Catholic diocese in Illinois, who during Mass last April likened President Obama and Senate Democrats to Hitler and Stalin. He also asked God to “have mercy especially on the souls of those politicians who pretend to be Catholic in church, but in their public lives, rather like Judas Iscariot, betray Jesus Christ.”
Now, on the eve of the election, Jenky has sent a message to every priest in his diocese, telling them that “By virtue of your vow of obedience to me as your bishop, I require that this letter be personally read by each celebrating priest at each Weekend Mass, November 3/4.”
The mandatory letter states:
Dear Catholic Believers,
Since the foundation of the American Republic and the adoption of the Bill of Rights, I do not think there has ever been a time more threatening to our religious liberty than the present. Neither the president of the United States nor the current majority of the Federal Senate have been willing to even consider the Catholic community’s grave objections to those HHS mandates that would require all Catholic institutions, exempting only our church buildings, to fund abortion, sterilization, and artificial contraception.
This assault upon our religious freedom is simply without precedent in the American political and legal system. Contrary to the guarantees embedded in the First Amendment, the HHS mandates attempt to now narrowly define and thereby drastically limit our traditional religious works. They grossly and intentionally intrude upon the deeply held moral convictions that have always guided our Catholic schools, hospitals, and other apostolic ministries.
Nearly two thousand years ago, after our Savior had been bound, beaten, scourged, mocked, and crowned with thorns, a pagan Roman procurator displayed Jesus to a hostile crowd by sarcastically declaring: ‘Behold your King.’ The mob roared back: We have no king but Caesar. Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord. They are objectively guilty of grave sin.
For those who hope for salvation, no political loyalty can ever take precedence over loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ and to his Gospel of Life. God is not mocked, and as the Bible clearly teaches, after this passing instant of life on earth, God’s great mercy in time will give way to God’s perfect judgment in eternity.
I therefore call upon every practicing Catholic in this Diocese to vote. Be faithful to Christ and to your Catholic Faith. May God guide and protect his Holy Church, and may God bless America.
It is important to note that Jenky’s description is wrong or incomplete on several points. The health-insurance coverage requirement does not apply to churches or church employees involved in its religious mission. It applies only to any secular operation by the church, such as hospitals and universities, just as it would apply to any other business.
More importantly, the policy does not require coverage of abortion. It does require that policies include contraception methods that block implantation of a fertilized egg in the womb, which the church considers abortion.
Jenky is not alone in such statements. Nicholas DiMarzio, a Catholic bishop in New York, expressed similar sentiments last week, warning parishioners that “It is inconceivable to me how Catholics could support such policies. Indeed, Roman Catholics who support abortion rights and vote for a candidate because of those policies, place him/herself outside of the life of the church. In so doing, they also place themselves in moral danger.”
“Is it possible to vote for somebody despite their support for these policies?” DiMarzio asks. “To my mind, it stretches the imagination, especially when there is another option.”
Nor are such statements confined to the Catholic leadership. For example, the Rev. Randy Mickler, head pastor of Mount Bethel United Methodist Church in Marietta, touched on multiple political topics in his Oct. 21 sermon:
In his message, Mickler tells his congregation (9:20 in the posted video) directly accuses President Obama of showing “great hostility toward Christianity, and at times an encouragement toward Islam,” rattling off a long list of alleged such actions, many if not most factually questionable.
For example, Mickler claimed that in June of 2012, the Obama administration banned the use of Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps emblems on Bibles to be distributed by the government to our troops. He did not mention that it did so under threat of a lawsuit by a group making the reasonable point that imprinting U.S. government symbols on Bibles could be interpreted as government approval. The Bibles are still being distributed, just as they always have been, but absent the military emblems.
‘I’m not telling you whom to vote for,” Mickler says. “I don’t think God cares who wins this election as much as he cares about how we reflect Christian integrity in a voting booth. It is ridiculous to think that we can divorce our faith from our actions and say, this is secular and this is sacred.”
He also tells the congregation that they face a quandary. “I’m not telling you to vote for the Mormon,” he says. “The Mormon is not a Christian. According to the National Council of Churches, that is a sect, not a religion.”
Technically, federal law still prohibits churches and other groups that enjoy tax-free nonprofit status from engaging in partisan politics. In practice, though, that law is seldom if ever enforced because the political cost of doing so would be prohibitive. And while I don’t have a major problem with that turn of events and accept it as inevitable, I think violating federal law was always one of the more minor risks that religious leaders take when they so flagrantly entangle their churches with the sordid world of partisan politics.
Once you step into that political world, the rules change significantly, and I’m not talking federal or state law.
UPDATE: I put this in comments below, but I’ll add it here as well:
It’s perfectly legitimate to question the mixing of politics and religion in the black church, although I think you also have to acknowledge how the tradition arose. For a long long time, going well back into slavery, the church was the only black institution through which the black political voice could be expressed, and black church leaders the only representatives that the white establishment respected. Separating church and state was not an option to a community allowed only a religious voice.
That said, it is impossible as a legal and practical matter — and as a matter of fairness — to allow that to continue in black churches while trying to enforce the pulpit/politics ban in other institutions. That’s in part why I wrote above that the ban is basically a dead letter from here on out.
– Jay Bookman
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748 comments Add your comment
STEVIE RAY
November 1st, 2012
3:01 pm
BRO
Beware of the craptrap!
stands for decibels
November 1st, 2012
3:01 pm
J-Reb @ 2.58, I daresay you know nothing of what Wright preached, other than that “GEE DEE ‘Merka” clip you fox “news” addicts watched on an endless loop for a week or three back in March 2008.
But if you have no kind words for me for pointing that out, I guess I can live with it.
Doggone/GA
November 1st, 2012
3:02 pm
“Black Protestants are far more likely than white Protestants or Catholics”
That does not say MOST
“Nearly eight-in-ten (79%) black Protestant churchgoers say their clergy have spoken out about the importance of voting”
That does not constitute partisan politics
“Black Protestants are twice as likely as churchgoers overall to be hearing about the candidates at church”
This is too vague to justify your assertion
“and the messages they are hearing overwhelmingly favor Barack Obama”
Without an exhaustive study of what was actually said, this is too dependent on the parishioners understanding…it does not constitute proof that the preacher was engaging in partisan politics.
Try again.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:02 pm
Moderate Line
As predictable as I am, you should have seen that one coming. After all, you did seem to be able to predict my comments earlier.
Mick
November 1st, 2012
3:02 pm
**Are y’all really that afraid of Black people?**
No, they just think they’re superior to them…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:02 pm
“That’s in part why I wrote that the ban is basically a dead letter from here on out.”
And that’s why the IRS is so fearful of bringing a case. They know the Supreme Court will rule against them.
catlady
November 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
I agree about letting pastors have their say, but they should pay the taxman!
Aquagirl
November 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
especially when many are banging the race drum harder the closer to the election we get..
I just got a forwarded e-mail from a crazy relative titled “early Christmas present.” It’s a photoshopped picture of Obama shining Sarah Palin’s shoes.
I kid you not.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
straitroad — “I understand there are people such as yourself who’s God is government, but that doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to trample on someone else’s religious beliefs. The mandate is an intrusion on religious liberty.”
No, it’s not, and it’s already been so found at the SCOTUS level. Jay posted earlier this year about a SCOTUS decision — written by Justice Scalia, no less — that held that *general* provisions, generally applied, cannot be held to be impositions on religious insitututions just because those provisions just happen to brush up against sensitive parts of those institutions’ doctrine.
In other words, if it applies to *everyone* equally, then religious groups or institutions don’t have any right to expect to be exempted.
Rebar
November 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
I guess the Catholic Church forgot what Jesus said, “Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s”
stands for decibels
November 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
This is where I lay out my usual challenge to anyone to back up the claims that the Trinity United Church of Christ is or was “racist” and/or preached hatred of white folks.
This is where we start hearin’ crickets, other than perhaps a few pathetic heaves in the “but but Liberation Theology” direction.
james
November 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
“So, what’s the deal with the focus on the Black Church all of a sudden? ”
It is no different than Jay’s focus on the Catholic Church. Is it because he can not face his “own demons and feels more comfortable pointing out the faults of others”? Or is this just another silly double standard.
The focus on black churches has is not about race. Instead, the focus is because, as the above Pew poll demonstrates, discussion of the candidates is three more time prevalent among black churches than the Catholic churches that are the subject of Jay’s ire. As usual, the race card is a weak hand.
no evidence, james....
November 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
james. encouraging voting is not endorsing a candidate. and since when was michelle obama ordained?
FAIL AGAIN. try again. but remember, three strikes and you are out.
Fedup
November 1st, 2012
3:05 pm
Thanks Granny you stole my thunder. Everybody should pay taxes at the same level. No exception. Raise Mitt’s taxes to over 30% that laggered. I am not one of those 47%.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
3:05 pm
james — Believe it or not, I am advocating taxing all churches, despite “Michelle Obama giving a vigorous defense of ‘politics from the pulpit’”. I duly note that you have failed to acknowledge my advocacy. I know it is crazy to believe either of those facts, but please excuse me.
STEVIE RAY
November 1st, 2012
3:06 pm
AG
That’s nuts…did you see the MOVEON and M Moore video with the line “…we gonna burn this thing down”…its a hilarious well made video but after it sinks in….kinda disconcerting..
Sarah Palin would have made a great cheerleader during my college days at UGA…we liked them attractive and stupid…
Religion, Politics and Greed
November 1st, 2012
3:07 pm
Now is the time to tax ALL churches and religious institutions.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:08 pm
That sounds like a bunch of crap. I believe people are simply pointing out that black churches have been poltically active and no one on the left has said anything.
Again, thanks for the compliment.
While you believe people are pointing out one thing, I see them as doing something they always do here. When Jay points out something, the M.O. is to deflect to the “Timmy did it too.” defense while never even once acknowledging one’s own shortcomings.
The Black Church used to be the unifying group for the Black Community, but that’s not the case anymore. Years ago, y’all would have had a valid point. Today, however, that defense reeks of deflection. The Black Church does not have the influence now that it had years ago. But, continue to be mislead by looking into the past as opposed to living in the present.
—————
You do understand the difference between “most” and “some”, right?
I do, but you might wanna help your fellow rightie out as he obviously doesn’t know the difference.
Cobbian
November 1st, 2012
3:09 pm
The Catholic Church operates hospitals and universities in countries all over the globe. And in those countries in Europe, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, many South American countries, they operate as Catholic institutions inside of countries where birth control is part of the national health care policy. In the U.S. they operate many hospitals and universities that still offer contraceptives in health insurance. The very Catholic Philippines is close to voting to include contraceptives in their health care system.
Those Catholic hospitals and universities are just as Catholic today as they were the day before whatever country they reside in implemented health care coverage for contraceptives. The Catholic hospitals and universities in the Philippines will still be Catholic hospitals if the country provides contraceptives in health care laws.
The compromise on how to define a “religious employer” has already been made. And that compromise allows a group of people who come together for purpose of their faith, to practice their faith, to be allowed to treat each other in ways that are not in conformance with the laws of the country. It is defined narrowly and tightly because those who participate give up legal rights. The government compromised on equal protection under the law by allowing a group of people to agree to give up civil rights in order to practice their faith.
The situation of those who work for Catholic hospitals and universities is not the same. Peole who work for these institutions come together to practice their professions: doctors, nurses, accountants, professors, secretaries, food service workers. They are for their professional skills. In the U.S. they include about 1 million people who are Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu. The reason for their coming together is not to live by the rules of a certain faith.
This is another place in which faith and democracy do not meet. But what is being asked is for the government to allow a faith institution to impose faith beliefs on people who work for them. In effect, the government relinquishes the citizenship of these people to a faith organization. In effect, the government “establishes” the right of that faith group to impose tenets of the faith on those who work for them.
What the HHS regulations do is about what it needs to do. It is not anti-Catholic or anti-religion. But it is very much pro-democracy.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:09 pm
Rebar:
See my 3:01
Li'l Aynie
November 1st, 2012
3:10 pm
Has anyone noticed that religious “leaders” pattern themselves after God, instead of Jesus?
Jesus extolled the poor and the meek, instead of pandering to the high and mighty. He criticized the behavior of no one except the hypocritical Pharisees. He didn’t exhort Caesar to restrict alcohol, and ban gay rights, contraception, and abortion. He didn’t dwell in marble palaces in Rome or ostentatious McMansions in Dallas and Atlanta. He didn’t prance about in bejeweled robes, adorn his hands with fancy rings, or cover his head with crowns and bejeweled hats .
Jesus dressed in a robe and sandals. He associated with the common people. He went about doing good.
American religious “leaders” are the latter-day Pharisees!
Moderate Line
November 1st, 2012
3:10 pm
CJ
November 1st, 2012
2:53 pm
“Why should tax exempt companies be barred from practicing freedom of speech?”
To be clear, tax exempt organizations have freedom of speech, and when it comes to political issues (e.g., abortion and contraception), they take full advantage of such freedoms.
However, to achieve tax-exempt status, such organizations made a choice not to endorse or advocate on behalf of individual politicians or political parties. They made that choice in exchange for avoiding taxes that the rest of us have to pay. In other words, they’re getting a financial benefit not available to others in exchange, in part, for staying out elections.
Why? Because otherwise, all taxpayers would be subsidizing institutions that are directly involved in elections, whether or not we agree with the persons or parties that those institutions are politicking on behalf of. I don’t want to subsidize a Methodist preacher politicking for Mitt Romney any more than others want to subsidize a Catholic nun politicking for President Obama
+++++
If we eliminated people who were be subsidized by the government we would start with for profit companies who receive contracts from the government, people who receive money from government programs, and people whose taxes go up or down are able to be in politics.
Based on that there would be no one else vote.
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
3:11 pm
Fedup – Thanks Granny you stole my thunder. Everybody should pay taxes at the same level. No exception. Raise Mitt’s taxes to over 30% that laggered. I am not one of those 47%.
who pays 30%?
TaxPayer
November 1st, 2012
3:11 pm
And Republican politicians need to be taxed for their efforts to spread the sermons through legislation. Keep the faith-based science confined within the church walls or in the pits of hell. In fact, lock up Paul Broun.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:12 pm
Get real !
It hasn’t just been black churches but liberal white churches (mostly Protestant) who have been spewing political speech from their pulpits for decades.
Now conservative churches decide to do the same thing and libs. start whining.
Tsk, tsk, tsk !
Mick
November 1st, 2012
3:12 pm
Li’l Aynie
Yes, good points…
Welcome to your occupation
November 1st, 2012
3:12 pm
Looks like another big endorsement snagged by the Kenyan socialist. This time by Bloomberg, citing climate change and Sandy.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:13 pm
Instead, the focus is because, as the above Pew poll demonstrates, discussion of the candidates
In case you are historically challenged, what group do you think was behind the organization of the push to get the right to vote extended to Blacks? Of course, there will be mentioning of politics in the Black Church, but mentioning politics is not campaigning, is it?
As usual, the race card is a weak hand.
Well, why on God’s Green Earth did you smack it down on the table with the FIFTH post of the thread? That you would call the race card weak after you’ve been riding it like Bill Elliott qualifying at Talladega is funny as hell.
straitroad
November 1st, 2012
3:13 pm
Jay, your topic is spot on today. From CSB Atlanta today:
FORSYTH, Ga. (CBS Atlanta) — The reverend who gave the benediction during President Barack Obama’s inauguration said America is “going to hell,” and white people may go with it.
Rev. Joseph Lowery, 91, made the comments at St. James Baptist Church in Forsyth, Ga., as part of a Southern Christian Leadership Conference tour to encourage African-Americans to vote for Obama, according to the Monroe County Reporter.
The paper reports that Lowery apparently told parishioners in the crowd that he is back to believing that all white people will not get into heaven because of what’s been happening during the campaign
joe
November 1st, 2012
3:16 pm
Finally!!!! Once the MSM chose to throw out the rule books on neutrality, the churches, synagogues, etc should have the same carte blanche to use their outlets to inform their flocks on what our liberal socialist/marxist/communist “leaders” are up to. More power to them!!!
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:16 pm
who pays 30%?
When looking at all taxes, pretty much everyone does. With exceptions, of course.
But here is really the only tax graph you need: It’s total tax burden by income group. And as you’ll see, every income group is paying something, and the rich aren’t paying much more, as a percentage of their incomes, then the middle class.
That’s really what the American tax system looks like: Not 47 percent paying nothing, but everybody paying something, and most Americans paying between 25 percent and 30 percent of their income
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/total-tax-bill-income.jpg
Aquagirl
November 1st, 2012
3:16 pm
its a hilarious well made video but after it sinks in….kinda disconcerting..
The part about watching us every time we have sex…Republicans ought to demand that air in school sex ed classes. It might even slow rutting teens down.
Tom
November 1st, 2012
3:17 pm
Lowery is a senile old fool. But so is Billy Graham. Both of them should just shut up finally.
Rightwing Troll
November 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
Free speech aint free (as we can plainly see in the SuperPAC fueled orgy of excess called the Presidential election…) Tax the lying snake and all of the Catholic church.
My parents stopped going to the Catholic church they have attended for decades recently after the monsignor told his flock “they couldn’t possibly understand Obamacare and it’s ramifications and they were to listen to the church for guidance on it”. My Mom is a RABID catholic, she is/was a big time contributor and she still sends yearly donations to a group of nuns up north and funds a scholarship for a catholic school where she grew up.
Aquagirl
November 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
Oh, and the poor guy whose photo was ripped off for the racist Obama shoeshine e-mail isn’t too happy.
Warning: image not safe for anyone outside the KKK
http://digital-photo.com.au/gallery3/index.php/Journalism/Obama-Shines-Palin-Shoes-unauthorised-plagiarism-1
Religion, Politics and Greed
November 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
bookman parrot
November 1st, 2012
2:45 pm
Have you EVER attended worship services at a Black church?
deegee
November 1st, 2012
3:20 pm
I happen to live in the John Birch territory of the northern suburbs of Atlanta. I am finding it harder and harder to find a Catholic church that isn’t offensive to me and my husband. We are traveling about 20 miles in one direction to attend mass in a diverse community that has so far stayed out of the fray of political discourse. The catholic bishops and archbishops should concentrate on making sure that 100% of their faithful live by their rules and leave the non-Catholics and the government out of their crusade.
Rightwing Troll
November 1st, 2012
3:20 pm
“Finally!!!! Once the MSM chose to throw out the rule books on neutrality, the churches, synagogues, etc should have the same carte blanche to use their outlets to inform their flocks on what our liberal socialist/marxist/communist “leaders” are up to. More power to them!!!”
MSM pays taxes… so should the church.
stands for decibels
November 1st, 2012
3:21 pm
It hasn’t just been black churches but liberal white churches (mostly Protestant)
Kindly provide examples of these churches who have endorsed candidates or political parties, in violation of their tax-exempt status.
Because (for about the thirtieth time, here) that is the issue. Not political speech itself, which was never the issue.
ragnar danneskjold
November 1st, 2012
3:21 pm
I cannot conceive of any intelligent reason the churches should not be able to address ethical issues, or lapses, arising from government policies. That democrats will be the primary object of scorn by the church-goers is not the fault of the church-goers.
King of Wishful Thinking
November 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
Did the bishop forgot to put in the letter that God does not reside in Heaven, but instead he lives on the planet Kolob. Sheesh!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
Aquagirl — “Republicans ought to demand that air in school sex ed classes. It might even slow rutting teens down.”
Some kids might enjoy that and say to themselves “I could make a hotter clip than that.”
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
November 1st, 2012
3:25 pm
Just had a thought. maybe a good compromise would be to say it’s OK to lower taxes on the rich, if churches can be taxed….I could live with that.
Doggone/GA
November 1st, 2012
3:25 pm
“This is where we start hearin’ crickets, other than perhaps a few pathetic heaves in the “but but Liberation Theology” direction”
And they DO NOT want to hear about the white members of that church
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
3:26 pm
Bro, I saw that article not too long ago, if it’s the same one…it combines state, fed, payroll, corporate, and sales taxes…before deductions and credits…so yeah we all do in different proportions…I assume (maybe wrongly) that the point was on Fed tax….I’m @20% fed
If not Fedup should be happy that in the end we all pay the same rate..even the 1% and no adjustment is required
straitroad
November 1st, 2012
3:26 pm
Tom, you’ve never heard Graham say anything that even remotely approaches what Lowery says.
Misty Fyed
November 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
Typical libs…anyone who has a moral or two should not be allowed to participate in political discourse.
Aquagirl
November 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
Some kids might enjoy that and say to themselves “I could make a hotter clip than that.”
Please excuse me while I run away screaming.
deegee
November 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
ragnar, the church should always be able to address ethical issues or lapses, but what are you trying to say, “The government made me do it?”
straitroad
November 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
Doggone/GA, I don’t doubt that there are white members in that church. There are self-loathers throughout society who feel the need to excercise their ginned up guilt. This board is a perfect example.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
3:29 pm
Typical libs…anyone who has a moral or two should not be allowed to participate in political discourse.
When you have to lie to make a point, you really have no point.
TN_Realist
November 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
If you cannot grasp the signifcance of the absolute need to separate State and Church from the comments of these church leaders then a therocracy is your view of goverment. I am a life long Methodist and the remarks and positions put forth scare the hell out of me!
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:31 pm
EC
That’s the article. I have no earthly idea of what my effective tax rate is. I don’t even worry about. As long as I still have a job that requires me to pay taxes, I’m happy as hell. Given how big of a bullseye fed workers have painted on their backs, I worry more about keeping my job than what taxes I pay. I agree with you on being happy that we all pay about the same. I wish many more would educate themselves to see that point.
josef
November 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
Funny. to me anyway, that we’d be getting a Catholic bash when we’ve got a good Methodist minister here at home telling us white folks we’re all going to hell anyway… get real and show some consistency.
And as per last p.m. Being old don’t get you no free pass.
But being fair here. the “senile old coot” Billy Graham changed his negative stance. The “senile old coot” Joseph Lowery went back to his negative stance.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
M. Fyed — “Typical libs…anyone who has a moral or two should not be allowed to participate in political discourse.”
I haven’t seen anyone here say that the Bishop should be silenced, but I have seen quite a few advocate that his church should be paying taxes.
Do your morals say anything on the subject of bearing false witness, perhaps?
Doggone/GA
November 1st, 2012
3:33 pm
“There are self-loathers throughout society who feel the need to excercise their ginned up guilt”
And you can prove that the white members of that church are self-loathers, right? I just SURE you can…you being such a paragon of truth and all that. So show your proof.
St Simons
November 1st, 2012
3:33 pm
I say, let them screech.
The American people grow tired of this. They are hanging themselves.
I live in a house with 4 women, of this generation and the next. I by god
hope they try to tell women (especially the next generation) what they
can & can’t medically do with their own bodies. In 10 years, they’ll
be having their convention in an airport bathroom stall.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:33 pm
Li’l Aynie :
See my 3:01 where Jesus took on King Herod.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 1st, 2012
3:33 pm
Well, it’s just not right to keep us from mixing politics in with church services. Back when we had a real pastor—the Rev. Jim Bob Buice—he’d stand in the pulpit and read right from the Bible to condemn librul Democrat beleifs. He even brought buses to the church and gave folks a lift to the polls. Then the godless libruls framed him by putting this nekkid boy in some bushes and grabbing the Rev. Jim Bob when he just happened to walk by. They sent him to prison and when he got out they said state law wouldn’t allow him to preach anyplace there was people under 21. That’s how anti-God the librul Democrats are.
Now we got the Rev. Postlewaite and when it comes to standing up for what’s right in politics he’s got the spine of a jellyfish. He’s so mealy-mouthed he won’t even mention political races when he preaches. I wish they’d hide a nekkid boy in some bushes and arrest him when he walks by. Then we’d be able to find a real preacher.
Anyhow, you won’t find any God-fearing Christian voting for Obama—other than Those People that want their welfare checks and food stamps to keep coming—and that’s a fact.
Even the Rev. Billy Graham is too chicken to come right out and tell people to vote for Romney. He sends out this big letter and tells people to vote for the canadate that has Christian beleifs and respects the right to life and all that, like we’re too dumb to know he wants us to vote for Romney but won’t tell us to.
I say good White Christians across this country need preachers that will cut loose on this Socialist Muslim Kenyan. And if you don’t beleive that, why, you’re nothing but a Richard head. I say that in a Christian way, of course.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
LUCIFER
November 1st, 2012
3:34 pm
I’m right up there with “Normal Free” on this one. I too loathe institutionalized religious. These manmade philosophies subjugate entire societies to their whims and mandates. Remove the threat of “God” punishing you in the so-called “afterlife” with fire and brimstone unless you vote for Romney and you can see how silly this is. Remember it was the Catholic Clowns from yesteryear who kept Galileo imprisoned because his “Earth revolves around the sun” discovery conflicted with the teachings of the church. And, it was the Catholic Clowns who covered up the fact that some of their esteemed fellow clegymen liked to dittle young boys. If you do not believe in the supernatural you cannot be intimidated by it. These clowns feeding their congregations this tripe about who to vote for SHOULD put them in direct conflict with the IRS.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:34 pm
Jay
I think your next thread just wrote itself….
http://www.mikebloomberg.com/index.cfm?objectid=BD2B64EB-C29C-7CA2-F83198E3B4EF0938
Leadership Needed
But we can’t do it alone. We need leadership from the White House – and over the past four years, President Barack Obama has taken major steps to reduce our carbon consumption, including setting higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars and trucks. His administration also has adopted tighter controls on mercury emissions, which will help to close the dirtiest coal power plants (an effort I have supported through my philanthropy), which are estimated to kill 13,000 Americans a year.
Mitt Romney, too, has a history of tackling climate change. As governor of Massachusetts, he signed on to a regional cap-and-trade plan designed to reduce carbon emissions 10 percent below 1990 levels. “The benefits (of that plan) will be long-lasting and enormous – benefits to our health, our economy, our quality of life, our very landscape. These are actions we can and must take now, if we are to have `no regrets’ when we transfer our temporary stewardship of this Earth to the next generation,” he wrote at the time.
He couldn’t have been more right. But since then, he has reversed course, abandoning the very cap-and-trade program he once supported. This issue is too important. We need determined leadership at the national level to move the nation and the world forward.
I believe Mitt Romney is a good and decent man, and he would bring valuable business experience to the Oval Office. He understands that America was built on the promise of equal opportunity, not equal results. In the past he has also taken sensible positions on immigration, illegal guns, abortion rights and health care. But he has reversed course on all of them, and is even running against the health-care model he signed into law in Massachusetts.
If the 1994 or 2003 version of Mitt Romney were running for president, I may well have voted for him because, like so many other independents, I have found the past four years to be, in a word, disappointing.
rightwingextreme
November 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
indigo….nice selective quoting of scripture…i’ve responsed as below.
November 1st, 2012
2:43 pm
Nowhere in the Christian New Testament are church speakers commanded to preach on political matters. In fact, Christians are commanded to be “not of this world”. If you were of the world, the world would love his own; but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Nowhere in the Christian New Testament(or Old Testament) is abortion even mentioned. How about Thou shalt not murder from the 10 commandments? The New Testament speaks on several occasions of murderers not entering into Heaven. Mark.10.19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’ ”
And yet, “men of God”, ignoring this, regularly inject politics and things not even mentioned in the Bible into their sermons.
I’ve never been able to understand why this is.
I hope this helps.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
Closing paragraph from my linkee…
Presidents Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan both found success while their parties were out of power in Congress – and President Obama can, too. If he listens to people on both sides of the aisle, and builds the trust of moderates, he can fulfill the hope he inspired four years ago and lead our country toward a better future for my children and yours. And that’s why I will be voting for him.
Adam
November 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
Well this thread must just have Fred blowing a gasket
Erwin's cat
November 1st, 2012
3:38 pm
Bro
The thing in the article that I didn’t realize (or really care to research) was how the state tax was regressive as income went up and the fed was progressive….but in the end everyone paid @ the same percent of income….I’m sure there is more to the story n the details
Adam
November 1st, 2012
3:39 pm
I am sure many of the Catholic faith see this is nonsense and will not heed their Bishop. Which eventually begs the question as to whether or not they will remain Catholic.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:39 pm
“An exit poll of Americans who voted absentee in Israel finds Republican nominee Mitt Romney beating President Obama by a significant margin, 85 percent to 14 percent.”
http://freebeacon.com/post/34763328405/poll-of-absentee-voters-in-israel-finds-overwhelming
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
3:39 pm
R. Convert — “And if you don’t beleive that, why, you’re nothing but a Richard head.”
I know that I have ‘arrived’ on Jay’s board now that Redneck Convert has appropriated one of my euphemisms for his own use.
stands for decibels
November 1st, 2012
3:41 pm
Which eventually begs the question as to whether or not they will remain Catholic.
or, alternatively, to poop in the woods.
godless heathen
November 1st, 2012
3:41 pm
One of the reasons I am very selective about the churches I attend.
Me too.
straitroad
November 1st, 2012
3:41 pm
Doggone/GA, lighten up there, fella. No, I can’t prove that. That’s just my general observation from living and working among people. I didn’t intend to get you riled up. I just see things as they are. If I sit somewhere and take abuse from someone and don’t do anything about it, then I must have low self esteem or some sort of self loathing problem. That’s all I’m saying.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 1st, 2012
3:42 pm
SfD — “or, alternatively, to poop in the woods.”
Is a bear Catholic?
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:42 pm
EC
I think it’s because the state tax and other taxes are all earned income based. When you get into the higher income levels, they come less from earned income and more from dividends, carried interest, and other things that are not subjected to payroll or state taxes.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:43 pm
This Air Force general will be great for the next Benghazi incident:
“Report: 27 Cadets Injured in Brawl at U.S. Air Force Academy”
“The article noted that the new Commandant of Cadets Brig. Gen. Greg Lengyel also found the brawl unacceptable, although — as Born noted in her email — he might be amenable to allowing cadets to keep some version of the tradition if they presented him a proposal for how it could be executed with “good order and discipline and proper risk management.”
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/report-27-cadets-injured-brawl-us-air-force-academy
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
JHM @ 3:42
Get out of my head!!!!
indigo
November 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
ragnar danneskjold – “I cannot concieve of any intelligent reason the churches should not be able to address ethical issues, or lapses, arising from Government policies”.
Maybe it’s because The New Testament does NOT endorse this kind of behavior from church leaders. Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent.
josef
November 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
“…now that Redneck Convert has appropriated one of my euphemisms for his own use”
I guess that puts you in the Du-k-sha-nee clique, too, eh?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
Leno: ‘Hurricane Sandy Has Already Created More Jobs Than Obama Has’
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
November 1st, 2012
3:46 pm
Headline: “Two-thirds of jobs go to immigrants during Obama’s four years”
“Two-thirds of those who have found employment under President Obama are immigrants, both legal and illegal, according to an analysis that suggests immigration has soaked up a large portion of what little job growth there has been over the past three years.”
Read more: Two-thirds of jobs go to immigrants during Obama’s four years – Washington Times http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/31/two-thirds-of-jobs-go-to-immigrants/#.UJJd2_E9JXQ.mailto#ixzz2B0BmD5TR
Joseph
November 1st, 2012
3:46 pm
Poor poor Jay… At no time in the letter you presents did the Bishop tell you who to vote for. He’s simply pointing out what Obama and his party believe in on social issues. Baby killing and homo marriage. If you agree with them on it you should vote for the dem…
Doggone/GA
November 1st, 2012
3:46 pm
“No, I can’t prove that”
Maybe, then, you should investigate projection.
“I just see things as they are”
Ok, which is the lie: you see things as they ARE *or* you can’t prove those white members are self-loathers? Both statements CANNOT be true.
“If I sit somewhere and take abuse from someone and don’t do anything about it, then I must have low self esteem or some sort of self loathing problem”
But since you are not a member of that church, you ALSO cannot prove that’s what was happening.
Or to you REALLY find it hard to grasp that those white members give the LIE to those who denigrate that preacher – who isn’t even associated with that church anymore – on the basis of ONE 10 second sound bite?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
3:47 pm
Obama Inauguration Preacher: ‘America Going To Hell In A Handbasket’…
drudgey spam
Fred ™
November 1st, 2012
3:47 pm
Sweet Jay, I guess I just got the Christian bashing started early today. Nice that you give them a forum now. No need for me to even try to catch up on the posts or follow any more.
The damn shame is that the hurricane took out all the Call of Duty: Black Ops game servers so I can’t even do that. Still being sick I can’t take a walk……… hmmmmmm I wonder if Yahoo still has online games like Chess?
AmericaShrugged
November 1st, 2012
3:47 pm
Seems like the same people who don’t want to enforce the laws against illegal aliens invading our country want the churches to pay taxes. The same people who want ot ban the death penalty for convicted murderers and rapists but want to kill millions of the innocent unborn because they are an inconvenience to the mother. The stupid, the immoral, the Democrazies!!!
Adam
November 1st, 2012
3:47 pm
The so called broken glass “fallacy” is about to blow a hole in the unemployment numbers, thanks to now required STIMULUS to rebuild houses, infrastructure, etc for millions of Americans.
Jay
November 1st, 2012
3:48 pm
“Tom, you’ve never heard Graham say anything that even remotely approaches what Lowery says.
Google Billy Graham, Nixon and Jews.
curious
November 1st, 2012
3:48 pm
Billy Graham’s group removed Mormonism from their “cult” list.
What prompted that?
HDB
November 1st, 2012
3:49 pm
Here’s the question I have (and I know someone will accuse me of race-baiting…but….):
The majority of the states, including GEORGIA, passed laws that required insurance companies to cover contraception as a part of women’s health care, but the outcry didn’t occur until the President wanted to put that option in the Affordable Care Act; where was the outcry from the churches…particulalry the Catholic Church, when Governors…predominately white Governors….passed such legislation??
sam
November 1st, 2012
3:49 pm
lets be honest, are there any people more divorced from the reality of life in this current century than priests or bishops? focus on charity work and forget the contraceptive bs. if polled secretly i would day 90% of catholics would agree that this has no meaning to them at all. i’d be in that 90%
Doggone/GA
November 1st, 2012
3:50 pm
“where was the outcry from the churches…particulalry the Catholic Church, when Governors…predominately white Governors….passed such legislation??”
Been asked many times already…never answered with anything that came close to making any sense
Jay
November 1st, 2012
3:50 pm
Kamchak, don’t go there. Post has been pulled.
josef
November 1st, 2012
3:51 pm
FRED
Amen to that…this is a really classic one for the books on deflection…I came in and saw this topic and showed it to Unmentionable…he nearly fell out laughing.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:51 pm
Headline: “Two-thirds of jobs go to immigrants during Obama’s four years”
I thought that we were suffering because there were no jobs being created?
Matti
November 1st, 2012
3:52 pm
Indeed. TAX THE CHURCHES. Eliminate the deficit, pay down the national debt. Tax them all.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
November 1st, 2012
3:52 pm
Jay
OK, sorry.
Adam
November 1st, 2012
3:52 pm
HDB: Apparently there was a loophole. As long as the charities “self insure” under state law, they can be exempted from having to provide birth control.
Moderate Line
November 1st, 2012
3:52 pm
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:08 pm
That sounds like a bunch of crap. I believe people are simply pointing out that black churches have been poltically active and no one on the left has said anything.
Again, thanks for the compliment.
While you believe people are pointing out one thing, I see them as doing something they always do here. When Jay points out something, the M.O. is to deflect to the “Timmy did it too.” defense while never even once acknowledging one’s own shortcomings.
The Black Church used to be the unifying group for the Black Community, but that’s not the case anymore. Years ago, y’all would have had a valid point. Today, however, that defense reeks of deflection. The Black Church does not have the influence now that it had years ago. But, continue to be mislead by looking into the past as opposed to living in the present.
+++++
I believe that the people who are bringing up the black churches are merely showing how the people on the left are hypocritical when attacking churches.
Saying it is a deflection is a deflection from the charge of hypocrisy. As I always say don’t throw a stone if you don’t want stones thrown at you.
I think accusation of Timmy did it to does not dismiss the apparent hypocrisy.
I felt like what black churches did was great. Also, I believe the anti-slavery movement was more or less a religious movement so I have no problem with religion getting involved with politics.
Adam
November 1st, 2012
3:53 pm
Doggone: Apparently there was a loophole. As long as the charities “self insure” under state law, they can be exempted from having to provide birth control.
Brosephus™
November 1st, 2012
3:53 pm
Fred
You are #1 on the blame list for this thread!!!!
They BOTH suck
November 1st, 2012
3:53 pm
Scout
Is this the organization who did that polling in the article you listed? If so, you think they have an agenda…… to say the least?
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=288476