GM on Romney: ‘Campaign politics at its cynical worst’
All political campaigns lie and mislead. We all know that, and that knowledge is “baked into the cake,” so to speak, when it comes to assessing candidates. But this week in Ohio, Mitt Romney’s campaign is conducting a fascinating experiment in political science.
Its apparent goal is to discover whether, in these cynical times, a tipping point exists at which lies become so egregious, so divorced from reality and so potentially destructive to personal lives that it actually creates a significant backlash. There’s a lot riding on the outcome.
As noted yesterday, Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne has already responded to one Romney ad, trying to reassure frightened Jeep employees that their jobs were not being shipped overseas to China, as the Romney campaign was trying to imply. The Romney camp responded not by pulling the ads, but by cutting a new radio ad in which the lies and economic terrorism are more blatant still.
It states:
“Barack Obama says he saved the auto industry. But for who? Ohio or China? Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China, which means 15,000 more jobs for China. And now comes word that Chrysler is planning to build cars in, you guessed it, China.”
The message of the ad is clear: The auto rescue effort has failed, and GM is moving 15,000 jobs from the United States to China. Neither is remotely true. However, if you or your family is dependent on the auto industry to pay the mortgage or put food on the table, that kind of message is nonetheless likely to strike terror in your heart.
Which is exactly what it is supposed to do.
To date, GM has attempted to stay as far away from presidential politics as possible, fully aware that the White House is up for grabs and that it may very well find itself needing cooperation from a President Romney. But like Chrysler, GM felt forced to set the record straight, and the blunt language used by the company in its official statement was extraordinary:
“We’ve clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days,” GM spokesman Greg Martin said. “No amount of campaign politics at its cynical worst will diminish our record of creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country.”
“At this stage,” Martin said, “we’re looking at a Hubble telescope-length distances between campaign ads and reality.”
Here’s that reality: Yes, GM today employs roughly 14,000 fewer people than it did in 2008. However, most of those job losses occurred early in 2009, before the company went through restructuring. It had nothing whatsoever to do with China, and the company has in fact added thousands of jobs since the restructuring.
And yes, GM, like Chrysler, is now planning to increase production in China for sale in the Chinese market. As the Detroit Free Press points out, Chinese government regulations make it difficult to import vehicles into that huge market. If you want to sell and compete there, you have to manufacture there. Rather than a threat to U.S. jobs, the expansion of GM and Chrysler into China is actually a sign of the companies’ good financial health, because they clearly have access to the capital needed to expand.
Romney knows that. In fact, in other settings Romney has claimed to deserve credit for the very same auto bailout that he now insinuates will benefit only the Chinese auto industry, leaving U.S. workers jobless.
He’s betting that Ohio voters can be easily fooled, easily frightened and easily manipulated. That says a lot about how little respect he has for the people whom he claims to want to serve.
– Jay Bookman
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340 comments Add your comment
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:53 am
BRO
Couldn’t agree more,…as I’ve mentioned and despite now being owned by the NYT, guys like me follow him and look forward the his logic…the MLB thing is what got all of our attention…
Regression analytics including algorithms (commonly known as predictive analytics) have been used by manufacturers and the like for years….good example is P&G who uses these techniques to figure out just where and to whom to issue what coupons to get the most bang based on demographical differences in locales..
Gotta go annoy others now..behave..
Welcome to your occupation
October 31st, 2012
11:54 am
Mitt Romney and his band of terrorists are eating the flesh of the host body, which is the body politic itself as a set of norms and political values.
Ghouls and grave robbers, all of them.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
11:54 am
Tealiban Party
I was wondering why so many were quoting this article without providing a link. As I read it myself, now I understand why. Thanks for the link.
stands for decibels
October 31st, 2012
11:55 am
it’s used here ad nauseam
All those bloody Romans, go home!
tiredofIT
October 31st, 2012
11:55 am
If GM and Chrysler had failed, how long could Ford have survived when the part supplers supply chain became decimated.
alex
October 31st, 2012
11:56 am
@ stands for…, there you go, it’s racial..hmmmThat’s it ..what a PUTZ!
Tealiban Party
October 31st, 2012
11:57 am
Harleynut
October 31st, 2012
10:55 am
What a sad State of affairs the US has become. Yes Mitt will do or say anything to get the top job and the President will do nothing but photo ops to keep it during these last day’s.
Photo-ops? You seriously think that is all that President Obama is doing to help with the storm cleanup and recovery operations? It truly is a sad day.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
11:57 am
tiredofIT
I’m not sure how long or if Ford would have survived, and I’m glad we didn’t have to find out.
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
11:58 am
” how long could Ford have survived when the part supplers supply chain became decimated”
Well, Ford had a pretty good idea…even if some of us don’t. That was one of their arguments IN FAVOR of the bailout…even though Ford, itself, didn’t actually need assistance.
zeke
October 31st, 2012
11:58 am
There would not have been millions of unemployed auto workers with a structured normal bankruptcy. There would have been a change in union contracts, or, a killing of the unions which would have been a good thing! Investors, bond holders and shareholders would have had a chance to recover some of their investments, and, the idiot government would not have been involved! Instead, we have drastic losses by investors, bond holders and stockholders, affecting the financial markets, and, on top of that basically giving ownership of GM to the UAW! That should never have happened!!!!
Oscar
October 31st, 2012
11:58 am
If GM and Chrysler had failed, how long could Ford have survived when the part supplers supply chain became decimated.
_____
Ford would have gone under in about three months.
Child, please
October 31st, 2012
11:58 am
I think the issue that is not mentioned (in the analysis but is clear in the anti-bailout stance) is the ENORMOUS cost to the taxpayer of each job “saved”. Millions of dollars per person. That’s even worse than the $400K plus (or was it more) spent to “create” jobs in the stimulus plan. For $400k they could have supported 8-10 families, not ‘create’ one job.
And why don’t you ask the old GM bondholders who were screwed by the government what they think about it? Yes, I realize ‘rich’ people like retirees owned the bonds and depended on the income for their retirement, but that’s ok…..
alex
October 31st, 2012
11:59 am
@ stevie ray, thanks for pointing out the obvious, your 101 stats course is SO enlightening
BRW
October 31st, 2012
11:59 am
Where the heck did READING COMPREHENSION go in this country.
If the phrases, “Move jobs to China” (lie) and “Create more jobs in China to sell cars there” (fact) do not differ to you, please return the money spent on your worthless education!
LieutenantCharlie
October 31st, 2012
12:00 pm
I really think Politics at its’ worst was when Obama received the Nobel Peace Prize and then started ordering Drone strikes against Yemen, killing thousands of Yemenites, mostly women and children.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
October 31st, 2012
12:00 pm
Jay,
But I like spam…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
bman
October 31st, 2012
12:00 pm
GM is building the new trailblazer in Thailand. Production has already started …thanks to U.S. tax dollars. That isn’t the worst part ….I actually like the new trailblazer, but it won’t even be sold in the U.S.
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
12:00 pm
“There would not have been millions of unemployed auto workers with a structured normal bankruptcy”
The problem was: there COULD NOT HAVE BEEN a “normal” bankruptcy/restructuring…because the private money WAS NOT THERE.
So, government stepped in BECAUSE the private sector WOULD NOT STEP UP.
Tealiban Party
October 31st, 2012
12:00 pm
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
11:54 am
I was wondering why so many were quoting this article without providing a link. As I read it myself, now I understand why. Thanks for the link.
You got it Bro. When Romney told the Defiance, OH crowd he read an article about Jeep moving all production to China, he either suffers from poor reading comprehension, or he flat out lied.
Patrick
October 31st, 2012
12:01 pm
SFD–
That was hilarious! Thanks for the laugh!
Erwin's cat
October 31st, 2012
12:01 pm
right!…off you go
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
12:02 pm
“Ford would have gone under in about three months”
I think it would have been a LOT sooner than that. The modern auto factories are highly dependent on “just in time” deliveries of part, so they don’t have the cost of storage. Without that, they would be down in about 2 days.
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
12:03 pm
“I think the issue that is not mentioned (in the analysis but is clear in the anti-bailout stance) is the ENORMOUS cost to the taxpayer of each job “saved”. ”
Then compare that to the ENORMOUS cost to the taxpayer of providing assistance to a million or more unemployed auto industry workers.
stands for decibels
October 31st, 2012
12:04 pm
about why there’s still such contention over what should have been a fairly uncontroversial auto bailout (at least this far after-the-fact–I can see why there was controversy at the time), I think Atrios more or less has this correct:
While our liberal media coddled and adored them, the truth was that the Tea Party never actually had anything to be angry about. Obama didn’t take their guns, or raise their taxes, or give free Cadillacs to strapping young bucks. He did continue to be black, so there’s that I guess. They couldn’t be mad at the Wall Street bailout, because that’s who was funding them. The only thing that kinda sorta made ideological sense was the auto bailout. So that became their thing.
Adam
October 31st, 2012
12:04 pm
Anyone aside from kayaker who has taken or would like to take my bet for $100 even odds should do so now. I wager Obama wins against anyone wagering he loses.
Banner123
October 31st, 2012
12:05 pm
Using the logic that Mitt Romney is responsible for “outsourcing” at Bain Capital when companies added production overseas for overseas markets in lieu of adding production here for those markets, Obama is responsible for “outsourcing” work that GM and Chrysler is currently working on because the government bailed them out and currently own stock in each company.
Please tell me the difference?
Adam
October 31st, 2012
12:06 pm
kayaker: And, by the way, I figured out how I will accept payment: as an Amazon gift card. I have a wish list set up so you can auto-deliver to me and I don’t have to divulge address and such.
You are not required to accept the same form of payment should you win.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
12:07 pm
Instead, we have drastic losses by investors, bond holders and stockholders, affecting the financial markets, and, on top of that basically giving ownership of GM to the UAW!
I would suggest you go back and look at Cerberus Capital Managment’s involvement in the bailouts. There were no drastic losses by them, and they owned 80% of Chrysler.
Granted, this is an opinion piece, but it sheds a bit of light on the bailouts that many have not.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/09/chrysler-cerberus-bailout-oped-cx_dg_1210gerstein.html
But that’s the least of it. I am not a finance expert, but what makes this episode so outrageous is that even a casual observer can see what a taxpayer ripoff Cerberus appears to be getting away with–but Congress and the Bush administration somehow cannot or will not. Why are they unable tell the obvious difference between General Motors (nyse: GM – news – people ) and Chrysler? GM is broke, can’t get a loan and is actually facing an emergency. Via Cerberus, on the other hand, Chrysler has access to loads of capital, and the only thing collapsing is its credibility.
All it takes to figure this out is a quick Google search, which yielded the following facts.
Last year Cerberus and about 100 co-investors bought an 80% stake in Chrysler and its financing arm at what financial analysts universally say was a fire sale price of $7.4 billion. (Cerberus’ own stake was $2 billion.) Business Week described it as Cerberus getting Chrysler “essentially gratis.”
To date, Cerberus has barely tapped any of its massive holdings–its investments in Chrysler are estimated to be just 7% of its assets under management–to stabilize Chrysler’s precarious finances; the exception was a $2 billion loan in July. Instead, the company has shed 30,000 jobs, a specialty of cost-cutting corporate flip artists like Cerberus.
Chrysler was owned, at the time, by a company like Bain who had access to more than enough money to aid them without needing bailout money.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:08 pm
zeke — “There would not have been millions of unemployed auto workers with a structured normal bankruptcy.”
And had there been a bank — or a consortium of banks — willing to work out a financing package with the carmakers, then that could have happened. But there weren’t, so it didn’t.
“There would have been a change in union contracts, or, a killing of the unions which would have been a good thing! Investors, bond holders and shareholders would have had a chance to recover some of their investments”
So your argument is ’saving investments good, saving jobs bad.’ Got it.
“and, the idiot government would not have been involved! Instead, we have drastic losses by investors, bond holders and stockholders”
If you can’t afford to lose your venture capital, then stay the eff out of the markets.
“affecting the financial markets, and, on top of that basically giving ownership of GM to the UAW! That should never have happened!!!!”
Shrug.
GM: Romney in ‘parallel universe’ with bailout claims – The Hill’s Transportation Report « Ye Olde Soapbox
October 31st, 2012
12:08 pm
[...] GM on Romney: ‘Campaign politics at its cynical worst’ (blogs.ajc.com) [...]
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:09 pm
C. Please — “Yes, I realize ‘rich’ people like retirees owned the bonds and depended on the income for their retirement, but that’s ok…..”
Retirees are holding lots of corporate paper? I don’t think so.
appleseed
October 31st, 2012
12:09 pm
Keystone being upheld by EPA concerns.Nebraska sandhills area.How can you refere to this as a debacle.Measure twice cut once,not ready fire aim.
Erwin's cat
October 31st, 2012
12:09 pm
Adam – That type of bet is illegal in GA
GT
October 31st, 2012
12:09 pm
Romney depends on this letting go of reality. I use to think it was illiterates he was brain washing but my breath is taken away on how much drama some of my well educated southern friends are having with this election. I finally dawned on me these are rich people, they are truly afraid their goose is cooked if O is reelected. Many are in the banking business or the insurance field paper pushers when they are not playing golf or tennis at the club. Atlanta is a distribution town more than a town that makes stuff. These people are afraid for themselves not the country. They make this personal and they let others know they will pay the price if they are out of step with them in this Hitler like lather. Many people are afraid to voice their real opinions down here, must have been that way during the civil war too.
Pizzaman
October 31st, 2012
12:10 pm
Sometimes I wonder where you people come up with your “Facts”. Oh yea! I know. As the current TV add says: “the Internet. They can’t put anything on the Internet that isn’t true”!
Tell a lie long enough and some people will believe it. The republican philosophy.
Welcome to your occupation
October 31st, 2012
12:11 pm
GT: “Many are in the banking business or the insurance field paper pushers when they are not playing golf or tennis at the club. Atlanta is a distribution town more than a town that makes stuff. These people are afraid for themselves not the country”
In Marxian terms, it’s called the bourgeoisie.
Fred ™
October 31st, 2012
12:11 pm
Chinese government regulations make it difficult to import vehicles into that huge market. If you want to sell and compete there, you have to manufacture there.
Sounds like a policy we need to adopt.
sam
October 31st, 2012
12:12 pm
the scary thing about Romney is that we have no idea where he really stands on anything at this point. he is allowed by people on the right to say anything as long as his name is noty obama it makes no difference. folks on the left may feel the same about obama (not sure though). as an independant i can say with certainty i would never vote for Romney because this ‘tell ‘em what they need to hear’ strategy he apparently lives by (as most CEO-types do) is not conducive to running a government. and again it scares me. but then again i live in georgia and i am pretty certain my vote means jack squat
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:13 pm
Fred — “Sounds like a policy we need to adopt.”
Do not most major foreign carmakers *already* have assembly plants here?
nobodyyouknow
October 31st, 2012
12:13 pm
I am in my 70’s and worked at GM in Atlanta in the early 60″s. When I first started that job I was 100% union. As time and experiance went bye I got very disenchanted with that union. taking strike votes for anything. Guys taking sick days when all they had was a drunk binge. A man had a snack wagon he pulled all tru the plant 2 times a day. Employees gathering at the snack wagon to talk and letting work get behind. The company cancelled the contract with the snack wagon man because of that. They took a strike vote on that. Even though the company put snack machines all throughout the plant. They also threatened to strike if GM would not hire back the guys that had unexcused absences, and the worst one was when the window moulding I installed leaked as it went through the water test. The inspector came to our job site and requested we install a small metal bracket with a sealer tape onto the car before we installed the window moulding. IT took about 10 seconds. I’m not kidding. The employee that did the same job oppisite me went beserk. He wanted to see the union committeman asap. As the plant supervisor and union man watched my coworker scratched his ass, smoked cigaretts, blew his nose, did everything he could to prove he was overworked. I worked as slow as I could but still completed the job in time. (AT that time it was ok to smoke in the plant) But to file an overwork complaint on something like that especially when it made a better product was more than I could take.I left GM after 4 years, that plant along with the other GM plant and the FORD plant are all closed down now. I wonder why? Is it because Nissian, Toyota, and many other foriegn car maker makers build better products? Gee Ya Think?
truth
October 31st, 2012
12:14 pm
Gee….. Forbes magazine says GM is outsourcing to China…..
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/08/12/outsourcer-in-chief-obama-of-general-motors/
iRun
October 31st, 2012
12:16 pm
Stevie Ray – well, we get that experience from real data. It’s like a shark pool here. They throw you in and you have to learn to kill with your bare hands. Because you don’t learn stats in grad school, not really. The fed has been trial by fire, but I’m a damn good stat for it.
Thing is, I kinda resent the way anti-govs talk about me like I’m a lazy good for nothing drain on this country, you know?
Fred ™
October 31st, 2012
12:18 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:13 pm
Fred — “Sounds like a policy we need to adopt.”
Do not most major foreign carmakers *already* have assembly plants here?
++++++++++++++
I don’t know. How about furniture makers? Textiles? Steel? Sheetrock? Dipping Dots/ ALL the crap that you buy at walmart that says: Made in China?
how about WE protect OUR people, jobs, and manufacturing using the same laws that THEY do, that the Japanese do.
RB from Gwinnett
October 31st, 2012
12:18 pm
Jay, everything you wrote here confirms everything Romney said was true. So what’s the problem here?
The Italian owned Jeep is returning profits from China to the US??? Really??
Rightwing Troll
October 31st, 2012
12:18 pm
Remember kiddies, it’s not a lie if Mittens says it… and a vote for Mittens is a vote for all you believe in… whatever that may be…
St Simons
October 31st, 2012
12:18 pm
well, the cons are down 3 in Ohio, and as Nate says, ‘no one has ever
lost 3 pts in the last week in state polling’ Desperate – how desperate?
This is how low they’ll go –
Several conservative groups, especially the True the Vote, are planning to have up to a million volunteers at voting places next week to ‘make sure’ that no ineligible voter votes (read: intimidate). The problem is, these poll ‘watchers’ have no legal authority to question voters’ citizenship, address, or other items relating to eligibility. Only the official poll WORKER (haha see what they did there?) assigned to the precinct by the county may do that. It is easy to imagine fights breaking out when a self-appointed self-righteous illegal vigilante vote ‘checker’ asks a voter for his name or ID (and gets his ass kicked & fed to the gators.) In some cases, the vigilantes may be armed –
Well- I’m thinkin’- I took my 2 littlest injuns WITH me to vote last week.
Did I take them into a con warzone? Did I need to be packin?
(no problem, just let this wild savage KNOW aheadatime, dammit)
Just to freakin VOTE? These are some sick bas-turds.
Just in case you were wondering ‘Do they have ANY shame left?’
Just in case you were wondering to what depths they will go
to lie cheat & steal an election they can’t win fair & square.
If you see this (crap), report it to 866-OUR-VOTE or
Federal Election Commission at 800-424-9530
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
12:19 pm
“Sounds like a policy we need to adopt”
Go ask KIA why they built a factory in the USA
Mr Right
October 31st, 2012
12:21 pm
Seems the left thinks if they scream the loudest that the right is lying, nobody will notice their lies!
Rightwing Troll
October 31st, 2012
12:21 pm
Wow!! All this union bashing when at this very moment there’s 1000’s of union thugs working hard to get power back online for Sandy victims… sad and pathetic… par for the wingnut course…
joe
October 31st, 2012
12:22 pm
How many billions does GM still owe to American taxpayers? Ya, thats what I thought…
St Simons
October 31st, 2012
12:22 pm
Nov 7 – No Sockpuppet Day – join the movement
Fred ™
October 31st, 2012
12:24 pm
St Simons: I walk the perimeter of my poll every hour. If I see any of these asshats they are going to get to meet the local Dekalb County Police force. I WILL have them arrested for voter intimidation. Thanks for the reminder. I’m going to go to the precinct and give the desk sergeant a heads up.
beam me up
October 31st, 2012
12:24 pm
This is clearly a last ditch desperation move. Today’s Quinnipiac poll has Obama up five points in Ohio. The late break is swinging Obama’s way and Romney has almost no chance of winning without Ohio’s electoral votes. Clearly, he has determined that he can’t win there by holding rallies and continuing the same lines of attack. If the auto companies responses are news here, they are big front page items in Ohio. Romney certainly did not want to spend the last week of the campaign in Ohio defending attack ads. Florida seems to have swung from a state that Romney could feel confident about back to a tie. North Carolina is starting to look more competitive. It will probably go for Romney, but he is going to have to put resouces there to be sure that it does. Romney has made inroads in Virginia, Colorado and Iowa. It seems a stretch that he could pick up all three though. However, none of those will matter much if Ohio or Florida go to Obama. In that case, Romney would have to win the other of those two, hold NC, and pretty much sweep the other true swing states or flip a state that looks unlikely at this point.
Welcome to your occupation
October 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
Mr Right: “Seems the left thinks if they scream the loudest that the right is lying, nobody will notice their lies!”
Name a left wing lie. Name one.
Fred ™
October 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
12:19 pm
“Sounds like a policy we need to adopt”
Go ask KIA why they built a factory in the USA
+++++++++++++++++
Because they WANTED to, not because it’s a law here. What’s so hard to understand about that?
DannyX
October 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
“The Italian owned Jeep is returning profits from China to the US???”
Yes, 60% of Chrysler is owned by fiat, so yes Chrysler profits are still returning to US.
Look before I leap...
October 31st, 2012
12:27 pm
Hmmm
Open a new market, hire local workers, sell more product, increase profits.
Profits flow back to America, more taxes paid, ability to afford higher wage/cost base here – better paid American employees who also pay taxes. American suppliers sell more product, happy, well paid (tax paying) employees in that segment as well.
Sounds like a TERRIBLE business plan!
Only folks who don’t directly benefit are the American dealerships.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 31st, 2012
12:27 pm
Brosephus, somewhat as an aside, you know who ran Chrysler for Cerberus: Robert Nardelli (who ran Home Depot down). From Wiki:
On August 5, 2007, he became chairman and CEO of Chrysler, which had recently been taken private by private equity firm, Cerberus Capital Management. His annual salary at Chrysler was $1, with other compensation not publicly disclosed. (It’s rumored that the terms were that he wouldn’t be paid unless Chrysler succeeded. If they did succeed, he would be paid a salary along the lines of $30 million.) … On March 17, 2009, Nardelli said that Chrysler Financial would require a second round of loans.[11] On April 21, 2009, it was revealed that a $750 million loan from the government was turned down, on the grounds that it would have required that executive compensation be capped.[12] On April 30, 2009, Chrysler filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The same day, Bob Nardelli announced that he would leave the company as soon as the bankruptcy was over, and his replacement was announced (Sergio Marchionne [13]), who would likely face a pay cap.[14]
Note the comment about the rejection of a loan. The footnote leads to this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR2009042002156.html
RB from Gwinnett
October 31st, 2012
12:27 pm
Could you liberals pleas make and keep up a list of which US companies are allowed to build stuff elsewhere for good financial reasons and which aren’t? GM an Chrysler can, GE and Staples can’t???
Your either being really inconsistent or you’re lying through your dam teeth.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
12:27 pm
Sounds like a policy we need to adopt.
Runs counter to the “Free Trade” stuff that’s been bleeding us dry of jobs for the past 30 – 40 years. You’re not going to get that genie back in the bottle.
Rightwing Troll
October 31st, 2012
12:28 pm
The good news for Mittens sycophantic rubes is that he’s managed to keep his mouth mostly shut for the last couple days, so no gaffes… the bad news is Mittens has largely been sidelined and had to keep his mouth shut to keep from uttering any gaffes and to keep from reminding voters just how out of touch he is with them… especially in hard times…
St Simons
October 31st, 2012
12:29 pm
Obama’s gonna win Florida, too – you watch.
Thulsa Doom
October 31st, 2012
12:29 pm
So in the third paragraph from the end you readily admit that GM is in fact ramping up production in China which proves Romney right after all. But of course you excuse that ramp up in production in China by blaming it on Chinese protectionism. You can’t see what’s wrong here Jay? What’s wrong is a failure of leadership where we allow the Chinese easy access to our markets but the only way we get access to their markets is if we allow them to bully us into offspring production of our goods to their mainland. You have unwittingly just provided evidence of Obama offshoring jobs due to weakness.
DannyX
October 31st, 2012
12:30 pm
“Florida seems to have swung from a state that Romney could feel confident about back to a tie.”
Good points beam me up.
Guess where Romney is campaigning today? Florida. I guess Romney doesn’t have Florida in the bag after all.
nobodyyouknow
October 31st, 2012
12:30 pm
I used to vote Democrat for years. Consider myself independant now. Voted for Clinton. However the Democratic party has just gone too far south. They support unions. I DON’T. They support every entitlement program no matter what. I DON’T. They support cutting military spending to the bare bone.I DON’T. Think back my friends, EVERY TIME THIS COUNTRY LETS ITS GUARD DOWN SOMEONE KICKS OUR BUTT, The Japs in 1941, Several years after Carter cut the CIA budget and pulled many agents out of countries that hate us, because of the cost, WE GOT OUR BUTTS KICKED AGAIN ON 9-11. I firmly beleive if those agents were left in the middle east someone would have gotten the word about that attack long before it happened. I know we must cut the waste. It can be done without putting our country in danger. President O’bama is not a bad person, but many are infatuated with him because he’s “our 1st. black president”, looks so clean cut, beautiful family, can make a GREAT speech. BUT THAT DOES’NT MAKE A GOOD PRESIDENT! I just beleive he’s in over his head.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 31st, 2012
12:33 pm
He should release his college transcripts…
Birthers.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:33 pm
Fred — “I don’t know. How about furniture makers? Textiles? Steel? Sheetrock? Dipping Dots/ ALL the crap that you buy at walmart that says: Made in China?”
FWIW, I buy American whenever possible. I’m looking for a space heater right now, and Haier (Chinese) isn’t even on my radar. I’ll most likely buy a Lasko product.
http://www.laskoproducts.com/careers/
“how about WE protect OUR people, jobs, and manufacturing using the same laws that THEY do, that the Japanese do.”
I think the system works best when all players allow equal access to their markets. So if the Chinese don’t want to play fair, I wouldn’t have a problem slapping quotas or tariffs on their goods.
FWIW, I was heartbroken when I discovered that Stanley, Black & Decker was having some of their products made in China.
Thulsa Doom
October 31st, 2012
12:33 pm
RB,
consistency from the libs? Now thass funny!
RB from Gwinnett
October 31st, 2012
12:34 pm
DannyX/Jay, fiat will put the profits wherever Fiat feels they’re best put. The 40% can vot all they want, but they can’t outvote Fiat.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
12:35 pm
nobodyyouknow @ 12:13
Is it because Nissian, Toyota, and many other foriegn car maker makers build better products?
I have a 1963 Impala that came off the line at the old Lakewood Plant that’s in such good shape that I have to say that plant did a damn good job at producing cars. It’s still all matching numbers with mostly all original equipment.
————————-
Keep
I’ve come across that bit of information about turning down that government loan. When you read who’s involved with Cerberus, it’s a who’s who of Republicans.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:36 pm
KUTGF — “Brosephus, somewhat as an aside, you know who ran Chrysler for Cerberus: Robert Nardelli (who ran Home Depot down).”
FWIW, my operatives tell me that there’s a hush-hush little party among Home Depot senior management each year on the anniversary of Nardelli’s departure.
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
12:37 pm
“Because they WANTED to, not because it’s a law here. What’s so hard to understand about that”
Please provide a link to the LAW the requires a factory be built in China to sell there. The issue under discussion was TARIFFS…and we DO have tariffs on bringing goods into the USA, that’s WHY KIA built here. To avoid having to pay those tariffs.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
12:37 pm
What’s wrong is a failure of leadership where we allow the Chinese easy access to our markets but the only way we get access to their markets is if we allow them to bully us into offspring production of our goods to their mainland.
Why is that suddenly a failure of leadership when that’s been how trade has been going on with China since it started?
Adam
October 31st, 2012
12:37 pm
Erwin’s Cat: Adam – That type of bet is illegal in GA
I do not live in GA. So what you’re saying is…. kayaker gets out of the bet by default because it’s illegal for him?
Look before I leap...
October 31st, 2012
12:37 pm
“Several years after Carter cut the CIA budget and pulled many agents out of countries that hate us, because of the cost, WE GOT OUR BUTTS KICKED AGAIN ON 9-11.”
9/11 is now Carter’s fault?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 31st, 2012
12:37 pm
…a killing of the unions which would have been a good thing!
There’s your sign
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 31st, 2012
12:38 pm
Joe, from my contacts at HD, including some who were direct reports to Nardelli, I can assure you there was champagne to celebrate his departure.
Adam
October 31st, 2012
12:38 pm
Thulsa: consistency from the libs? Now thass funny!
Actually what’s funny is that you think all libs haven’t been consistent by and large.
St Simons
October 31st, 2012
12:38 pm
Fred, the guy that invented Dippin Dots is a client, so I can’t comment
further on him, other than he’s real ‘merkan, and country as
a turnip green.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
12:39 pm
JHM
I don’t know why they keep that hush hush. Georgia should celebrate Nardelli’s departue from Home Depot as a State holiday.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:39 pm
RB — “Could you liberals pleas make and keep up a list of which US companies are allowed to build stuff elsewhere for good financial reasons and which aren’t?”
I can’t speak for others, but IMO, it’s not the *companies* at issue. It’s where they outsource their production *to* that makes the difference to me.
If they move production to a place where the playing field is level and we can sell product *there* as easily as that country can sell product *here,* then I’m cool with it.
If, however, they move production to a country that has cheap production costs but all kinds of protectionist laws and policies (I’m mostly looking at China here), then no dice.
DannyX
October 31st, 2012
12:39 pm
GM stock up 9% today.
GM said it earned $1.48 billion from July through September.
Wow, and to think another “bankruptcy is just around the corner.” (Btw, last year GM sold more vehicles than any other company.)
weetamoe
October 31st, 2012
12:39 pm
Bush was not campaigning in 2005. He had already been elected to his second term.. Katrina revealed many horrific things—but not about Bush, who was too classy and polite to mention them and courageous enough to take the criticism without whining to the media or the general public.
Ajay
October 31st, 2012
12:41 pm
Ok, I read the ad transcript above, where in there did the ad say they are moving jobs from US? Ad says they will start to make more cars or make jeeps in China! which is the same as Apple making millions of iPhones in China and building huge plants for it leading to more jobs in China that could have been created instead here in the US . Come on, be fair when you write!
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:42 pm
KUTGF — “Joe, from my contacts at HD, including some who were direct reports to Nardelli, I can assure you there was champagne to celebrate his departure.”
I don’t know anyone nearly that high up, but when he left, I bought HD stock.
BRW
October 31st, 2012
12:43 pm
RB, Return your educational expenses. They obviously were a waste.
READING COMPREHENSION 101.
Fred ™
October 31st, 2012
12:43 pm
St Simons
October 31st, 2012
12:38 pm
Fred, the guy that invented Dippin Dots is a client, so I can’t comment
further on him, other than he’s real ‘merkan, and country as
a turnip green.
+++++++++++++++++++++++\
AQUA Dots lol. not dipping dots. I always do that. One is ice cream you eat and th other was an arts and crafts thingie that the Chinese filled with the date rape drug…………..
Donovan
October 31st, 2012
12:45 pm
Oh, the horror of Mitt Romney using the same tactics of the greasy Democrat Party and Team Obama. Listen to the squealing little liberals having to take some of that bitter medicine they dispense out on a daily basis to their rivals. Good for you Mitt Romney.
Why don’t you liberals ask all those Chrysler bondholders how they are doing after they were raped by your community organizer. Being forced to take pennies on the dollar represents the character of the Democrat Party. This bunch of academics running the administration sold Chrysler to Italy for no dollars. Now you have union thugs and Italians running the show. Nice deal for gangsters and the Mafia. The old Chicago way. You are who you are. Your vote for Obama is a shameful vote.
Obama and the Democrat Party knows where their bread is buttered on. It’s the same model as entitlement incentives. Those unionized auto workers will be given employment one way or another at the taxpayers’ expense, given the keys to the company, and expected to pay back by votes.
Come election time, Obama shows up in Ohio like a pandering whore and reminds them of his services to them.
This is the re-election dividend that low class people vote for.
Grasshopper
October 31st, 2012
12:48 pm
“All political campaigns lie and mislead.”
If you truly believe that statement Bookman, then where is the post on the Obama campaigns lies?
Shall we all hold our breath?
BRW
October 31st, 2012
12:48 pm
Donovan == Rush == Donovan. Do you have a machine that transcribes what the fat druggy says every day? Or do you play it back reaallll slow so you can get it down perfect?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
12:48 pm
Brosephus — “JHM, I don’t know why they keep that hush hush. Georgia should celebrate Nardelli’s departue from Home Depot as a State holiday.”
I don’t know why, either, and neither did my sources. Frankly, they told me that about Nardelli because they were trying to convince me that HD is superior to Lowe’s.
I like Lowe’s because I can get *just enough* of something for a DIY project, but at HD, you often have to buy stuff in contractor-sized quantities. I had to patch a hole in my hallway from where my wife tried to move a nightstand to another bedroom, and the smallest amount of drywall patch/compound I could get at HD was like 2 pounds (looked like about a quart in volume). Whereas at Lowe’s, I could get either a *kit* with a hole patch (piece of fine wire mesh), adhesive, compound, sandpaper and putty knife (altogether enough to patch a fist-sized hole) or just a tube with about a half-pound of compound in it.
For bigger things, I’ll compare prices between the two, but for little DIY fix-its, I much prefer Lowe’s.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 31st, 2012
12:50 pm
Why don’t you liberals ask all those Chrysler bondholders how they are doing…
Investing money in the marketplace is risky. In fact every prospectus lays that out in black and white.
You want guarantees?
Put your money in the bank and the FDIC will insure your saving up to $250,000, sport.
Look before I leap...
October 31st, 2012
12:51 pm
“which is the same as Apple making millions of iPhones in China and building huge plants for it leading to more jobs in China that could have been created instead here in the US”
It is NOT the same thing.
GM is building plants in China to sell cars in China
Apple is building iPhones in China to sell iPhones in the US
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
12:51 pm
Why don’t you liberals ask all those Chrysler bondholders how they are doing after they were raped by your community organizer.
Chrysler was 80% owned by Cerberus Capital Managment at the time of the bailout. Chrysler represented approximately 7% of their entire portfolio. Given that they got their money back for their investment, I’d say 80% of the Chrysler bondholders made out ok.
As an aside, what is the deal with y’all uber-conservatives and rape?
skipper
October 31st, 2012
12:52 pm
Unions have caused more trouble than the plague….they were originally a decent thing, but now you can’t fire somebody who is not worth spit, they want more sick-days/vacation days than actual work days, and want to do minimal work while they ARE at work! What a crock……….yeah, China and everybody else will take our jobs if we are not careful……
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 31st, 2012
12:53 pm
nobodyyouknow@12:30 – Your post is one of the best Ive seen on this blog, I was thinking pretty much the same as you posted. My other comment is that I think Romney may win the popular vote but Obama wins the Electoral vote? I personally think the popular vote should decide the election, no matter which candidate it is. The House will never work with Obama, so we will be back to square one. The debt will increase to 21-22 trillion in four years, with dependency programs constantly increasing. Those of you who have chosen to live for today instead of being concerned about your children/grandchildren’s future down the road, I’ll never understand your logic? Eventually foreign countries(like China) will stop lending money to us, what happens then. You must take in more money than you pay out, right? Something very bad will happen when the lending stops. Just remember when you speak of Obama money or the govt’s money, it is the tax payers of America and China’s money when you chose to get real!
n
October 31st, 2012
12:53 pm
I hope I am badly mistaken, but I believe Romney will be elected, we will have WWIII when Israel can count on Romney’s full support to bomb Iran, the world powers will choose up sides, and ultimately we will have riots in the streets because Romney cannot be trusted, and is tone deaf to reality, and a shill for the far right wing which is dismissive of the need for, and function of, government in a civilized society. A recipe for disaster and societal decline.
Thulsa Doom
October 31st, 2012
12:53 pm
Brocephus,
Very true. It’s been a failure of leadership under w,Clinton, probably bush 1 as well. And it needs to stop. Y’all may hate trump but the man is dead right about one thing and that is that we’ve been letting China walk all over us for quite awhile now. Time to toughen up with them especially since they have much more to lose in terms of trade then we do.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 31st, 2012
12:53 pm
For bigger things, I’ll compare prices between the two, but for little DIY fix-its, I much prefer Lowe’s.
I try to go to Ace or True Value.
The big box Home Improvement places move stuff around so you have to follow people around like a little puppy dog.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
12:53 pm
JHM
I’m a HD guy myself. I guess it helps that I can literally walk to HD if I had to. We NASCAR types can be brand loyal to the extreme at times, and it doesn’t hurt that I am a Joe Gibbs Racing fan, and his stable of cars includes the #20 Home Depot Chevy.