GM on Romney: ‘Campaign politics at its cynical worst’
All political campaigns lie and mislead. We all know that, and that knowledge is “baked into the cake,” so to speak, when it comes to assessing candidates. But this week in Ohio, Mitt Romney’s campaign is conducting a fascinating experiment in political science.
Its apparent goal is to discover whether, in these cynical times, a tipping point exists at which lies become so egregious, so divorced from reality and so potentially destructive to personal lives that it actually creates a significant backlash. There’s a lot riding on the outcome.
As noted yesterday, Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne has already responded to one Romney ad, trying to reassure frightened Jeep employees that their jobs were not being shipped overseas to China, as the Romney campaign was trying to imply. The Romney camp responded not by pulling the ads, but by cutting a new radio ad in which the lies and economic terrorism are more blatant still.
It states:
“Barack Obama says he saved the auto industry. But for who? Ohio or China? Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China, which means 15,000 more jobs for China. And now comes word that Chrysler is planning to build cars in, you guessed it, China.”
The message of the ad is clear: The auto rescue effort has failed, and GM is moving 15,000 jobs from the United States to China. Neither is remotely true. However, if you or your family is dependent on the auto industry to pay the mortgage or put food on the table, that kind of message is nonetheless likely to strike terror in your heart.
Which is exactly what it is supposed to do.
To date, GM has attempted to stay as far away from presidential politics as possible, fully aware that the White House is up for grabs and that it may very well find itself needing cooperation from a President Romney. But like Chrysler, GM felt forced to set the record straight, and the blunt language used by the company in its official statement was extraordinary:
“We’ve clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days,” GM spokesman Greg Martin said. “No amount of campaign politics at its cynical worst will diminish our record of creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country.”
“At this stage,” Martin said, “we’re looking at a Hubble telescope-length distances between campaign ads and reality.”
Here’s that reality: Yes, GM today employs roughly 14,000 fewer people than it did in 2008. However, most of those job losses occurred early in 2009, before the company went through restructuring. It had nothing whatsoever to do with China, and the company has in fact added thousands of jobs since the restructuring.
And yes, GM, like Chrysler, is now planning to increase production in China for sale in the Chinese market. As the Detroit Free Press points out, Chinese government regulations make it difficult to import vehicles into that huge market. If you want to sell and compete there, you have to manufacture there. Rather than a threat to U.S. jobs, the expansion of GM and Chrysler into China is actually a sign of the companies’ good financial health, because they clearly have access to the capital needed to expand.
Romney knows that. In fact, in other settings Romney has claimed to deserve credit for the very same auto bailout that he now insinuates will benefit only the Chinese auto industry, leaving U.S. workers jobless.
He’s betting that Ohio voters can be easily fooled, easily frightened and easily manipulated. That says a lot about how little respect he has for the people whom he claims to want to serve.
– Jay Bookman
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340 comments Add your comment
Micheal Ray Richardson
October 31st, 2012
11:00 am
Today’s odds: Obama -225; Romney +205. Come on Repubs, put your money where your mouths are and triple up overnight on the unbeatable Romney!
Tyler
October 31st, 2012
11:01 am
Wait…So what he is saying is a complete lie? From reading the article it seems like what he said was essentially true. You conceded that there are 14K jobs less here and that GM is planning on building more cars in China.
Another Regular Person
October 31st, 2012
11:01 am
I’m amazed at the shear ignorance that some of these people commenting have shown. The ad is untrue. Period. No dazzling intellect can prove otherwise. If you are so blind from having your head rammed up a politicians crack, then leave. Leave the country so the rest of us can try and sort out the complete B.S. all these politicians have left us. Romney is no savior. Nor is Obama. If you think either are, think again. Our government is so so so out of touch. Welcome to real life. You morons trying to prove Romney right are what is SLAUGHTERING our country. Trying to vote in a wolf in sheep’s clothing. What if no one voted? 1 billion down the drain for what? Morons. Surrounded by morons.
They BOTH suck
October 31st, 2012
11:01 am
LP
It was funny how you disappeared yesterday when you jumped on the pogo bandwagon about that bs in regards to the power companies sending workers to the northeast.
Lord Help Us and myself replied with the facts and you pulled a disappearing act that would make the top illusionists in the world look like amateurs.
ragnar danneskjold
October 31st, 2012
11:01 am
A silly essay. When Obama touts a false “success” in the taxpayer bailout of GM pensions – still about $40 billion unpaid – there is not “political issue.” When Romney points out the basic falsehood of the administration claim, and the failure to repay, Government Motors shills whine that he is playing politics.
If you don’t want to be enmeshed in “politics,” don’t take the government money.
For the record, the GM production outcome is approximately the same it would have been simply going through chapter 11, except that the taxpayers are $40 billion deeper in debt.
Get me Rex Kramer
October 31st, 2012
11:02 am
Julia, please elaborate on the exact schedule and how it works. Where are we in getting that $ back. Ford did not take bailout funds.
Arrowhead
October 31st, 2012
11:02 am
Ford is a private enterprise and Chrysler is owned by the Italians–both can build factories wherever they want and employ whoever they choose. US taxpayers, other than socialist/democrats, are tired of seeing their tax dollars spent crappy, money losing, pet projects of the Obama administration and handouts his cry baby auto union supporters. Romney’s critical assessments should continue until the government divests themselves from this GM mess for good. Or, eliminate the middle men and sell GM directly to China right now. Then GM can drag the Chinese economy underwater instead of ours.
Innocent Bystander
October 31st, 2012
11:02 am
Simple question.
If the feeling here is that a company that creates jobs, no matter where they are created in the world, without giving up any at home is bad for the company and bad for America…what does that say about a company that goes bankrupt? Good or bad for the workers at the company?
What about companies(a.k.a. private equity, e.g. Bain Capital) that take distressed companies and instead of helping them fire all the employees and reap handsome profits while all the jobs in America are lost? That is to say a company (and owner) that thrives on the misery they create for many other people.
What about CEO’s of said firms that then do not repatriate (bring back and invest) the money to the United States…but instead keep out the money of the country, like say the Caymans?
Good for his business? Yes. Good for his personal gain? Yes. Good for American jobs, good for the American economy…well decide for yourself when you vote. Do not complain when you lose your job in the name of capitalism or a free-market.
Rightwing Troll
October 31st, 2012
11:02 am
“This time it will be fatal.”
No… it won’t… that’s what’s so maddening about wingnuts… even when the CEO of these companies come out and say “that’s not true”, wingnuts won’t open their eyes to the truth… the real truth.
Citizen of the World
October 31st, 2012
11:04 am
You tell ‘em, Muddy Waters @ 10:57.
Fermin Romero
October 31st, 2012
11:04 am
Hitler said “the bigger the lie is, more people will believe it”
A lie is as good as the truth if you can get people to believe it……….
Andyn
October 31st, 2012
11:04 am
Who voted or will vote for Republicons definitely have their IQ below measurable limit when tested.
BTW, Romney is causian so this makes him more believable than other races?
They BOTH suck
October 31st, 2012
11:05 am
ragnar
And for the record, the GM execs have said bankruptcy would not have worked in terms of the frozen credit markets, etc,
Just for the “record”.
You can come back with all the tap dancing and nuances you like, but it will not change anything
Good day
muddy waters
October 31st, 2012
11:05 am
If Romney were in office he would have eliminated FEMA. He would have told the entire EAST COAST to just deal with your own disasters. He would have said, if you want help, turn to your own community because the goverment owes you nothing. He would still be partying with the Koch brothers laughing at the people in the disaster area. He would have told them, too bad your daddy wasn’t rich. Why not get a million dollar loan from your daddy to help you out.
independent dude
October 31st, 2012
11:06 am
Jay do you work for Obama sure seems like it.
I think the ad is purposely vague and could be interpreted 5 different ways. And Obama’s “Romney took my job ad’s” are just as bad if not worse.
Richard
October 31st, 2012
11:06 am
The bigger question is are the jobs continuing to be outsourced to other countries because our tax situation in the USA does not attract business, but drives it off. Successful companies and entrepreneurs have to watch their bottom line. If you want money to come back here then make it attractive and profitable for companies. It is not evil to be successful. If you want communism or marxism move somewhere else
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:06 am
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
And “stand down” they did which has been reported at various sites since about Oct 26th
Jay you did say it wasn’t act of terror which contradicts what your guy said in the Rose Garden
SHEETS!
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
11:06 am
From reading the article it seems like what he said was essentially true. You conceded that there are 14K jobs less here and that GM is planning on building more cars in China.
What Romney said IS a lie. Go and read the statements from the company heads themselves. If Romney were not lying, then why are they claiming that he is? The 15,000 less jobs here came by way of the global recession. GM will not create 15,000 job in China to produce 33k cars. You’re estimating 2 cars for each job, and that is nowhere near GM staffing.
CJ
October 31st, 2012
11:09 am
For the record, the GM production outcome is approximately the same it would have been simply going through chapter 11, except that the taxpayers are $40 billion deeper in debt.
For the record, GM would no longer exist if it would have simply gone through chapter 11.
Mike
October 31st, 2012
11:09 am
Jay, am I correct to understand that in China their policy is, if you want to sell it here, you have to set up shop, hire our people, and build it here? If so, no wonder they own us, they would appear to be a little smarter!
Fedup
October 31st, 2012
11:09 am
And we thought Nixon was a crook.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:10 am
MUDDY WATERS
Your comments about what Romney “would have done” have no bearing on reality…so a sitting president would completely ignore affected folks?
Perhaps you may consider checking your emotion at the door and providing something more than conjecture…that wasn’t remotely what he was suggesting…you get the Best Actor in a Dramatic Post award today..
Jeez
indigo
October 31st, 2012
11:10 am
Liberal Pariah – 10:53
What a superb and total distortion of what I actually posted!!!
You are a true poster boy for Romney’s lies.
Jay
October 31st, 2012
11:10 am
“You conceded that there are 14K jobs less here and that GM is planning on building more cars in China.”
Tyler, you and Romney — and Peadawg too I see — are trying to claim that those facts are related, that in fact the cars that are not yet being built in China and won’t be built there for several years CAUSED the 14K fewer jobs that occurred in 2009.
You have, to say the least, a timeline problem. Your “cause” is occurring some five years after your “effect.”
And that’s without even addressing the obvious fact that the cars being built in China will stay in China for sale in China.
I suspect that many of you making this argument understand just how dumb it is. The fact that you make it nonetheless is itself a sign of great cynicism and lack of integrity.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
11:11 am
They BOTH: And for the record, the GM execs have said bankruptcy would not have worked in terms of the frozen credit markets, etc,
That’s the one thing that noboby mentions. GM and Chrysler would have had a serious issue with trying to go through normal bankruptcy because of the fact that the credit markets were frozen solid. Nobody was giving out money at that time. Joseph and Mary wouldn’t have been able to get a loan for a manger back then.
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 31st, 2012
11:12 am
Everybody knows that a Zombie can’t be saved.
.
GM, Chrysler, Goldman Saches, Lockheed, BOA, etc…………………………………………..the only answer is a bullet to the brain.
.
Until the dwindling numbers of Romney/Obama-Bots realize this or pass …………….the tapewormification of Amerika will continue.
.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:12 am
CJ
Not sure I agree with your comments that GM would have shut its doors….clearly the DIP market was looking askance at providing needed funds to continue operations until surfacing from bankruptcy but the government guarantee behind DIP financing would have been an interesting outcome to consider..
David Dickman
October 31st, 2012
11:13 am
25% and Rising: Unemployment in Spain and Greece Is Still Spiralling. Who due you think bought their companies and why jobs are so scarce there as they are becoming in the US. We get the truth then we say shoot the messenger. The fact is China willing to have labour camps where their own employees can’t afford what they produce. The CEO of Chysler does not care one Iota about the US employee he lives in Switzerland and is an Italian citizen that doesn’t even pay taxes in Italy let alone the US.
LIberal Pariah
October 31st, 2012
11:13 am
TBS, I don’t live on this blog all day. I am a producer and paying taxes to support the 47%
My point was that the private sector can do a better job than the Fed govt and nothing you posted discounts that. The fact that Ga Power gets paid to help only strengthens my point. My example was Wal-Mart in NO with excellent mobilization and distribution capacity and you left that untouched. Nice try bully. Go pick on your intellectual inferior cause I ain’t it. 
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
11:13 am
I suspect that many of you making this argument understand just how dumb it is. The fact that you make it nonetheless is itself a sign of great cynicism and lack of integrity.
I don’t think some of them understand the whole issue with manufacturing in China to sell in China vs manufacturing here to export to China.
H. E. Pennypacker
October 31st, 2012
11:13 am
I have to run so carry on, but in summary the response from the right on less than truthful ads is, Obama is desperate, Jay is a shill, the MSM is doubling down to make sure Obama gets elected and some elements of Hurricane Sandy’s response differential to that of Katrina’s involves good fortune.
I will leave you with Nate Silver just updated election forecast of Obama at a 77.4% likelihood of re-election.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/
GT
October 31st, 2012
11:14 am
Bankruptcy was out of the question, the only people doing debt in possession loans were the very same people that got screwed out of their bonds to GM on the president’s plan. They were not going to rescue the car industry their bets were on its failure. This is where the American public has a disconnect. They think all of this is about patriotism, and fair play. There are men and women, especially on Wall Street that would let the entire country look like New Orleans the day after Katrina hit if it made them money. They don’t understand how Obama move them off that track, all tied up waiting for the train to run over them.
LIberal Pariah
October 31st, 2012
11:15 am
indigo, you claimed that Romney’ experiences are driving his behavior. Same point I made with regards to Obama’s worldview. Simple enough.
muddy waters
October 31st, 2012
11:15 am
>>>>Your comments about what Romney “would have done”
Really??? Eliminating FEMA is his policy. It is what is siad he will do if elected. Would you like me to point you to a voice recording. I suggest you wake up and become informed.
Cheryl Anne
October 31st, 2012
11:15 am
I always am amused when people point out the billions GM will never repay and somehow this is an argument against the bailout. This is a prime example of Ignoratio elenchi – the fallacy that basically says a point may or may not be true, but in any case doesn’t address the argument at hand. When you consider just the payroll of GM and Chrysler for one year – and not even the billions saved in ONE YEAR in unemployment and retraining and taxes saved by the bailout, you realize that even $25 billion is chump change.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:16 am
RICHARD
Finally a voice of reason..most folks here think that the ability to compete in global market should be subordinated to keeping high paying jobs alive here…Didn’t you realize that companies are first answerable to LIBS then to their BoD’s? Get your act together man:-)
Chuckterzella
October 31st, 2012
11:16 am
HDB- “If Katrina was “W”’s fault then it’s fair to blame Obama for Sandy”. No one ever blamed W. FOR Katrina, it was his response TO Katrina…I thought everybody (well, apparently almost everybody) could have reasoned that one out on their own.
But since Wall Street got hit this time, I’m sure Rmoney would’ve cared more than W. As for Jersey? Hmmm, maybe not so much.
BTW- whoever wrote ‘Romneyism’ (I saw it now I can’t find it again)…pretty funny
LIberal Pariah
October 31st, 2012
11:16 am
Thanks for playing but I gotta go be a producer.
Jay
October 31st, 2012
11:17 am
David D., you disqualify yourself from any serious discussion with that nonsense about Obama’s citizenship. If and when you return to Planet Reality, we’ll pick up the conversation then.
David Dickman
October 31st, 2012
11:17 am
Thomas Heyward Jr very good analogy.
TANSTAAFL
October 31st, 2012
11:17 am
@Morality? – How, exactly, did President Bush “ignore Katrina and keep on campaigning” when Katrina occurred in August, 2005 (not an election year)? Ah – but I see you’ve removed your erroneous post now. Shoot first and ask questions later much?
Oscar
October 31st, 2012
11:17 am
I don’t think some of them understand the whole issue with manufacturing in China to sell in China vs manufacturing here to export to China.
______
What they understand is that they want Romney to win the election, and saying Chrysler and GM are sending jobs to China will help him win votes.
Peadawg
October 31st, 2012
11:17 am
“The fact that you make it nonetheless is itself a sign of great cynicism and lack of integrity.” – Sorry, Jay. Ever sense you tried to blame Stevens for his own death whenever you talk about integrity it goes in one ear and out the other.
I don’t think Romney outright lied on this one…he just spun it. There IS a difference imo. Kind of like when Obama puts a spin on throwin’ granny over a cliff.
OBIWAN
October 31st, 2012
11:17 am
Julia,
Indeed, lest we forget: the feds in 2009 were handing out fistfuls of cash to bolster the auto industry, beyond the $64 billion used to bail out GM and Chrysler. Treasury staked another $18.7 billion on rescuing the companies’ auto lending affiliates (it still owns 74% of Ally, formerly known as GMAC). And the Energy Department doled out billions more to Ford and others to preserve auto-making jobs in the U.S. while steering the industry toward cleaner vehicles.
GM: repaid $23.1 billion of the $49.5 billion it got from the U.S. Treasury, including all of its outstanding loans. But Treasury still owns 500 million shares, or 32%, of GM stock. To recoup its full investment, GM stock needs to hit $52.80 per share. It’s currently trading around $21. GM also received a $106 million matching grant to build a battery factory in Brownstown, MI, where it is assembling battery packs for the Chevrolet Volt plug-in car using cells imported from Korea.
Chrysler: repaid $9.2 billion, fulfilling its debt obligations to the U.S. and Canadian governments, and is now owned by Italian automaker Fiat (58.5%) and a health care trust for UAW retirees (41.5%). Overall, taxpayers lost $1.3 billion on the Chrysler bailout. In full recovery mode, Chrysler is currently the fastest-growing carmaker in the world.
Ford: used its $5.9 billion loan to convert two truck plants to small-car production and to develop more fuel-efficient vehicles like the Ford Focus EV and C-Max Energy plug-in hybrid, on sale this fall. Loan repayments start in September. Ford says it will spend $14 billion over the next seven years on advanced-technology vehicles.
The full list, yes there are more, and not all American companies either… get the full list and lack of pay back here..
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/29/automakers-report-card-who-still-owes-taxpayers-money-the-answer-might-surprise-you/2/
muddy waters
October 31st, 2012
11:17 am
@Stevie Ray, please tell me the name of the company you created. Seems like you spend a lot of time on this post. Which tells me you are not working and are sucking on the TIT of the WELFARE program. Talk about an actor. GET A LIFE DUDE.
Peadawg
October 31st, 2012
11:18 am
Maybe another word to use is “exaggeration” instead of “spin”.
Is it November 7th yet?
David Dickman
October 31st, 2012
11:18 am
Jay read dreams of my father he holds dual citizenship I have yet to see where he renounced his citizenship from Indonisa.
Jay
October 31st, 2012
11:20 am
Go Navy, that Obama drawing is basically spam. Please do not repost.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:20 am
CHERYL
Interesting commentary..
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/02/17/gm-posts-record-earnings-is-it-ready-to-repay-bailout/
CJ
October 31st, 2012
11:20 am
…clearly the DIP market was looking askance at providing needed funds to continue operations until surfacing from bankruptcy…
Clearly? GM, Chrysler, and Ford executives all testified to the contrary.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/19auto.html
DannyX
October 31st, 2012
11:22 am
“Today’s odds: Obama -225; Romney +205.”
“I will leave you with Nate Silver just updated election forecast of Obama at a 77.4% likelihood of re-election.”
OH MY GOD EVERYONE!!!! BENGAHZI! BENGHAZI! BENGAHZI!
Les Moor
October 31st, 2012
11:23 am
It’s a shame more people don’t see Romney for the lying clown he is. He can see the brass ring, the culmination of this greedy machinations, and he is willing to do anything to get it. Please see through this guy’s treachery.
Jeep has stated that they have to build product in China because it is nearly impossible to get product into China that was build elsewhere.
Off Topic...
October 31st, 2012
11:23 am
“Keep Your Heads Up New York”….you all will get through this….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPQD5RT_MPg
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:23 am
MUDDY
Thanks for your upstanding remarks…
I built and own an actuarial firm and employ 5 actuaries and staff….don’t you agree that giving out the name of my company on a blog would be kinda idiotic? I can explain the logic if it is not clear..
Erwin's cat
October 31st, 2012
11:24 am
http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/
maybe next time
David Dickman
October 31st, 2012
11:24 am
He should release his college transcripts along whith how he was excepted into Havard, Columbia, and any other prestigious college he has attended I will give a years pay to any charity if he does this.
stands for decibels
October 31st, 2012
11:24 am
I don’t think Romney outright lied on this one…he just spun it. There IS a difference imo. Kind of like when Obama puts a spin on throwin’ granny over a cliff.
You do realize that it was never Obama or his campaign using imagery like that; that the infamous “throw Granny off a cliff” ad was a small progressive outfit called “The Agenda Project?” An outfit that’s had difficulty even getting stations to run their ads, apparently?
That’s a world of difference between that, and what Romney’s trying to pull. I’d like to think that Ohio voters will see this BS for what it is, though.
muddy waters
October 31st, 2012
11:25 am
>>>>Obama at a 77.4% likelihood of re-election
Love it. Like the Titanic the Republicans are a sinking Ship. They have not argument. Because they have no plan.
stands for decibels
October 31st, 2012
11:26 am
BENGAHZI! BENGHAZI! BENGAHZI!
add two more, and you’ll have the total number of links (5) at the foxnews.com home page referring to this MAJOR SCANDAL!!11!!
Another Regular Person
October 31st, 2012
11:27 am
As I posted before. You idiots trying to reason your way to truth. Stop infecting our country and leave. Take your stupid politicians with you if they mean that much to you.
David Dickman
October 31st, 2012
11:27 am
Jay I am willing to put my money where my mouth is because I know when some one is blowing smoke. Research your work and don’t be a hack.
muddy waters
October 31st, 2012
11:27 am
@Stevie Ray, Oh please do brag about your company with all 5 employees. I think it would be intelligent of you to want to get free advertisment. Unless like a typical Republican. You are nothing but lies. What a JOKE your are. You don’t own a company. You don’t even have a job. Admit it. You are pathetic.
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 31st, 2012
11:28 am
Jay
October 31st, 2012
11:20 am
Go Navy, that Obama drawing is basically spam. Please do not repost.
———————————————————————————————————————-
.
Please quit denigrating Spam too.
.
Thank you.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:28 am
DANNYX
Be careful of putting too much credence in polls/aggregators who simply tell you what you want to hear…his track record is shocking slim…he picked 47 or so states in 2008 but vast majority of those involved favorable lead of at least 2.5% so picking these not really amazing..
I like the guy and he is one of the best minds to occupy the regression analysis and related mathematical categories…love the guy but banking on a guy with only a single win under his belt with no other competitions can be trecherous…I hope he improves his credibility even further this cycle…the other thing to remember is that Romney still has a 41% or so chance of winning…if he and other odds makers are correct.
alex
October 31st, 2012
11:29 am
Jay, valuable point, ,let’s do the math 1.3 million jobs, I do not know the exact number, but of course some would get jobs, go back to school and many more woould have moved to Atlanta.Cost to owners and taxpayer :25 billion and counting, now where does that pull money from the NATIONAL ECONOMY. PERHAPS THE “DISMAL SCIENCE’ CAN GIVE US SOME REAL NUMBERS , NOT ALL THIS BIASED , EMOTIONAL SPECULATION AND no THE hUFFINGTON POST OR FOX CAN BE TRUSTED.
jAY, THE gOAL WAS TO GIVE gm A REPRIEVE FROM YEARS OF uNION CONTROL, BAD CEOS AND TERRIBLE PRODUCTS THAT AMERICANS KNEW BETTER THAN TO SUPPORT. Gotta fix that capitals button… So you think Obama could have sold it to the taxpayers(who have taken a bath) if he had said”the goal is not to break even or to make money”, really Jay, are you there. How many people are going to be willing to buy GM stock under a president who sold them and the bond holders out, “fool me once…..”
Bernard Zucker
October 31st, 2012
11:29 am
Mr Right ‘What did Obama do when 4 Americans werekilled on 9/11′
How about what did Bush do before ‘9/11′ after repeated warnings from the CIA that a terrorist attack on our country is being planned, more specific in August of 2001 that Bin Laden was planning an attack on our country?
He was too busy chasing WMD’s that we are still looking for….
That’s a lot of blood on Bush’s hands
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:32 am
MUDDY
We have a saying in my line of work…res ipsa loquitur…it’s latin and applies appropriately to your irrelevant posts…
Name calling is a signal that any debate is conceded…my point is that it is pointless to define what Romney would or wouldn’t do if elected…we could spend weeks suggesting same and learn nothing..
H. E. Pennypacker
October 31st, 2012
11:34 am
Stevie Ray,
Nate correctly picked 49 out of the 50 states in 2008, only missing Indiana, which he had for McCain, not the surprising Obama win. He also correctly picked every single senate race.
I agree he has a shallow track record, but you have to give him credit for what he has done.
iRun
October 31st, 2012
11:34 am
Stevie Ray – aren’t you the one who says you like to hire former federal statisticians because the government does a good job of training us? But because we make 80% our market value we’re often primed to jump ship?
Patrick
October 31st, 2012
11:35 am
Stevie Ray Says–
“We have a saying in my line of work…res ipsa loquitur…it’s latin and applies appropriately to your irrelevant posts”
Are you a priest? What other line of works entail speaking Latin?
appleseed
October 31st, 2012
11:35 am
vote Republican and your employer will prosper.good sign for the employer.
TANSTAAFL
October 31st, 2012
11:36 am
Chrysler already ships most of their profits (and pays most of their taxes) overseas – following the bailout, they became a majority foreign-owned corporation, rather than allying with Ford to stay American-headquartered. GM, bottom line, has cut about 15,000 jobs here in the U.S. and created about 15,000 jobs in China. U.S. taxpayers are on the hook for an estimated $25B loss on stock purchased by the gov’t. during the bailout. AND THEY ARE HEADED FOR BANKRUPTCY AGAIN – post election. The bailout was primarily a pre-election sop to the UAW and related unions (judged more likely to bolt the Democratic camp than the Greens, following the Keystone XL debacle?) And how about Keystone? How many good-paying, middle-class jobs were sacrificed in that campaign-politics calculus?
Alvin
October 31st, 2012
11:39 am
This whole auto bailout thing is confusing. Obama has been critical of Romney for suggesting bankruptcy for the auto industry but then Obama takes them through bankruptcy and acts like he did something heroic. Now it seems it’s wrong for Romney to talk about what is currently happening….huh?
Erwin's cat
October 31st, 2012
11:40 am
Latin is still used in the creation of new words in modern languages of many different families, including English, and in biological taxonomy
wiki
GT
October 31st, 2012
11:40 am
I wish we could pipe this blog into the Ohio newspapers. I think these hard working people would be amazed at the southern take of what happened before and after the bail out. It would also clarify any misconceptions of why Georgia is not doing as well as Ohio in this recovery. I think it is poetic justice that the state most in the radio range of the truth is the state that decides our next president. These people were forced to the reality of how bad this bailout was needed, and they have the pleasure of seeing it work like the president, under their close watch, said it would work. They could have been like Georgia with 10% unemployment but thanks to this bailout they have 6 and change unemployment. The only card Romney has it a lie, too bad, for Romney, it was not the Deep South deciding, they are like Mikey in that ad, they will eat anything served up by the right. If you think the lies are the truth how does that effect the rest of your reality?
Doggone/GA
October 31st, 2012
11:42 am
“And for the record, the GM execs have said bankruptcy would not have worked in terms of the frozen credit markets, etc,”
The auto bailout was, and remains, a textbook example of: government will step in when the private sector FAILS TO STEP UP
stands for decibels
October 31st, 2012
11:42 am
Something that tends to get lost in this discussion, to wit: Just how did GM and Chrysler ever get into this financial fix?
You listen to the right, and it’s a lot of “over regulation” this and “uppity Union thugs” that.
You listen to the left, and it’s a lot of “you’re oversimplifying this, it is terribly complex, and here is my six point position paper that is downloadable over here…”
Neither are right, though. The reason that these companies got into trouble is that…
drumroll please…
their cars sucked. A factory worker can’t make a suckily designed car desirable. even the best marketing campaigns can’t paper over sucky cars. Detroit’s management made dreadful policy decisions about the kinds of vehicles they’d be selling to the domestic market, and it bit them in the ass.
GM and Chrysler both thought that they could lazily pump out a lot of high-margin SUVs and put next to nothing into entry level small cars for the next generation of car owners. (Ford was guilty of this too, although to a lesser extent.)
What pains me about all this is that Mitt Romney ought to be a “car guy,” he should be well aware of this and he probably is. (I won’t get into his dad’s history with AMC and the irony of how that company made its bones with great-for-their-time small cars.)
But, he is still happy to make the same stupid right-wing noises about how them UAW
Negrosworkers are largely to blame for Detroit’s woes. And, IMHO, he surely knows better.Tealiban Party
October 31st, 2012
11:42 am
Freedom205
October 31st, 2012
10:23 am
I fail to see this “deceit” that you and GM are trying to cast on Romney’s ad. Your own fact-check article seems to admit to its truthfullness.
Seriously? Here is what Romney said in a speech in Defiance, OH, a mere 60 miles from Toledo, and is huge Jeep operation. “Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China.” Forget about the ad – this is straight from the dancing horse’s mouth.
Good to see Chrysler call out Romney and his lies. Ohioans are not going to suckered by the Romney campaign’s deceit and lies.
alex
October 31st, 2012
11:42 am
@cheryl Anne :show me the data…….25 billion in bailout is chump change for exactly whom,possibly .016% of 15 trillion, yea you’re right, I’ll take a billion…..sheesh
Patrick
October 31st, 2012
11:43 am
“Latin is still used in the creation of new words in modern languages of many different families, including English, and in biological taxonomy”.
Sure it is, but Stevie Ray apparently uses entire phrases of Latin in his regular work-speak. Weird.
YouLibs
October 31st, 2012
11:43 am
Telling those poor people in Benghazi that no, they could not have anyone come save their lives is probably the worst thing Obama has done since he forged that birth certificate. Why are we talking about anything else?
DannyX
October 31st, 2012
11:43 am
“U.S. taxpayers are on the hook for an estimated $25B loss on stock purchased by the gov’t.”
The GM bailout was a good deal for the taxpayers. Small businesses that support GM stayed in business. 1000’s of GM workers were able to keep their jobs at a time when this country was bleeding jobs. Those workers were paying taxes instead of receiving unemployment.
Erwin's cat
October 31st, 2012
11:43 am
I suppose it’s only fair that they tell the same lies as the other, the left has been accusing Romney of outsourcing jobs to China since the start
GT
October 31st, 2012
11:44 am
Alvin it really is not confusing if you research it and not let Romney rewrite history for you. What is confusing is why people like you in this time of the internet can be so misinformed and so lazy that you let either side tell you what you need to know. As you say huh…
Don't Tread
October 31st, 2012
11:44 am
GM critical of Romney? Shocking.
Especially since 0bama guaranteed their jobs and pensions (well, except select dealerships that didn’t contribute properly to his campaign) at taxpayers’ expense.
CJ
October 31st, 2012
11:44 am
RE: “Campaign politics at its cynical worst”
A couple more examples–
1. Ayn Rand acolyte, Paul Ryan, arrives at a homeless shelter for a photo-op after the meals have been served, the patrons have left, and the mess has been cleaned up. Not to be deterred, he and his family are photographed cleaning pots and pans that had already been cleaned. (Note: Ayn Rand penned “The Virtue of Selfishness.”)
2. Yesterday, Mitt Romney cancelled a campaign rally in Ohio and, instead, scheduled a “storm relief event”…at the same time as the originally scheduled campaign rally, in the same venue, with the same celebrities and same campaign movie. Adding insult to injury, Romney wanted to be photographed accepting donations from attendees. To pull that off, his campaign workers went out and purchased donations (e.g., diapers, canned goods), and handed them to people who were standing in line in order to shake Romney’s hand.
Campaign politics at its cynical worst.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
11:44 am
“Morality” — “If Katrina was “W”’s fault then it’s fair to blame Obama for Sandy.”
Incorrect.
President Bush’s *response* to Katrina was most certainly his fault. The hurricane itself was not.
Now we shall see how President Obama responds to Sandy, and we may certainly judge him in the same manner as we judged President Bush.
Don’t go putting the cart before the horse, pal.
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
October 31st, 2012
11:45 am
For the moment, shall we pretend Romney’s remarks are true. Even if he were President, he would be powerless to stop it. Sure an administration can cajole, pressure, and threaten but could not stop a free market company from doing wants (unless US still owns > 50% of stock). Beside Romney does not believe in government interference with private markets. Or does he now? I cannot keep track of what his position is this morning.
DannyX
October 31st, 2012
11:45 am
“Why are we talking about anything else?”
Because not all of us are crazy.
Brosephus™
October 31st, 2012
11:45 am
Be careful of putting too much credence in polls/aggregators who simply tell you what you want to hear…his track record is shocking slim…he picked 47 or so states in 2008 but vast majority of those involved favorable lead of at least 2.5% so picking these not really amazing..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Silver
Silver first gained public recognition for developing PECOTA,[2] a system for forecasting the performance and career development of Major League Baseball players, which he sold to and then managed for Baseball Prospectus from 2003 to 2009.[3]
In 2007, writing under the pseudonym “Poblano”, Silver began to publish analyses and predictions related to the 2008 United States presidential election. At first this work appeared on the political blog Daily Kos, but in March 2008 Silver established his own website, FiveThirtyEight.com. By summer of that year, after he revealed his identity to his readers, he began to appear as an electoral and political analyst in national print, online, and cable news media.
The accuracy of his November 2008 presidential election predictions—he correctly predicted the winner of 49 of the 50 states—won Silver further attention and commendation. The only state he missed was Indiana, which went for Barack Obama by 1%. He also correctly predicted the winner of all 35 Senate races that year.
Since he’s only done politics since 2007, his track record has no other option but to be slim. I’d wager that the people in MLB would have a bit more to say about his track record though.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 31st, 2012
11:45 am
Here’s a good article on the GM/China situation: “http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/is-gm-becoming-china-motors/”
Jimmy Hoffa
October 31st, 2012
11:46 am
I’m advising all my “goons” to learn to speak Chinese. Their first words are we don’t give a $hit, poor quality, strikes, work slowdown, sign a union card & become a Liberal!
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 31st, 2012
11:48 am
Patrick
Good question…its actually a business law phrase that’s been around forever and is often applied in insurance claims situations as well as in civil and criminal court.
Pennypacker
Yes, he gets mucho credit and I’m a big fan…just to be fair, very few of the races he picked correctly weren’t that close by near election date standards ..
IRUN
Don’t understand the second sentence but yes, we do like to clip an actuary or two from the feds or state insurance departments..this is due to experience (generally working during studying for credentialing exams FCAS etcetera) but the difference is that we arm them with solid, verifyable data with few flaws…it’s too expensive for a small shop like mine to hire them right our of grad school and pay them to complete their credentialing process..
Erwin's cat
October 31st, 2012
11:48 am
Sure it is, but Stevie Ray apparently uses entire phrases of Latin in his regular work-speak. Weird.
no it’s really not…it’s used here ad nauseam
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
11:48 am
KenFromCalifornia — “let’s not even get into former mayor nagin who didn’t/wouln’t call the national guard to maintain order while looting occurred with complete abandon.”
To be fair, a mayor can’t call out the National Guard. Each state’s National Guard contingent is under the authority of that state’s Governor, unless they’ve been federalized (in which case they fall under Presidential authority).
Mick
October 31st, 2012
11:49 am
Personally, I’m glad romney keeps trying to play his dishonest campaign as something other than the truth. Midwesterners have a very low tolerance for liars and in the end I suspect he will pay the price and desevervedly so…
Tealiban Party
October 31st, 2012
11:49 am
SandyOaks
October 31st, 2012
10:30 am
Hmmm??
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html
Since you appear to be struggling with reading comprehension (similar to Mitt Romney), let me help. There is a difference in producing all Jeep models in China, versus Jeeps manufactured solely in China. You and Romney would be better served to re-read this article carefully.
Welcome to your occupation
October 31st, 2012
11:51 am
Mitt Romney and his gang are the equivalent of termites in a wood-based structure.
Parasites, pure and simple.
Jerome Horwitz
October 31st, 2012
11:51 am
Also, for all you Einsteins out there complaining about Fiat owning Chrysler need to remember that Chrysler would have gone TU without the infusion of Fiat cash. That was part of the condition of the “bailout”.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 31st, 2012
11:52 am
Shorter mark in mid-town: Waaah! Democratic lies are more effective than OUR lies!