The right wing is losing its last two marbles over Benghazi
Former Secretary of State Condi Rice went on Fox News Wednesday to discuss the Obama administration’s handling of the Benghazi attacks. Given her background and experience, she actually knows a thing or two about such issues, and it showed in her comments.
“When things are unfolding very very quickly, it’s not always easy to know what’s going on on the ground…,” she told Greta Van Susteren. “There’s a big picture to be examined here but we don’t have all of the pieces and I think it’s easy to try to jump to conclusions about what happened here. It’s probably better to let the relevent (investigative) bodies do their work.”
“The problem is when there is a fog of war like this, there are a lot of competing stories coming in, there’s a lot a competing information coming in, and it takes a little while to know precisely what has happened,” she went on to explain.
Even now, a month later, what Rice refers to as “the fog of war” has yet to lift. It took 10 days after the attack to even get FBI agents on the ground in Benghazi. To this day, there are still indications that the anti-Muslim video and the protests in Egypt played some role in what happened. There are still serious doubts whether the local militia group believed responsible has any ties whatsoever to al Qaida. And there is very good reason to believe that the attack was a crime of opportunity rather than some carefully planned military operation.
All in all, the tumult on the right about this story probably has the lowest content-to-noise ratio of any of the fake outrages fabricated so far by the right-wing media, and yes, I understand that’s saying a lot. Conservatives can’t even articulate what they’re mad about, only that they’re mad and somehow it’s Obama’s fault.
Michael Hirsh, a journalist with extensive overseas and warzone experience, does a good job of putting the fake scandal in context in a piece for National Journal. Take, for example, the newly released e-mails in which the State Department was notified that an Islamist group had claimed credit on Facebook for the Benghazi attacks. (The Facebook posting also called for an attack on the embassy in Tripoli, which never took place).
As Hirsh notes:
“The e-mails in question contained nothing more than “raw” intelligence, uncorroborated and unverified, that often flows in after an event. Intelligence officials typically don’t deliver their assessments until they have “finished” reports based on multiple sources, and corroborated evidence, and Obama officials such as (UN Ambassador Susan) Rice certainly would not have been out in front of the TV cameras citing raw intelligence. And as the government’s most senior officials say, the Benghazi case has taken them a long time to finish. “People forget that a Palestinian group was the first to claim credit for 9/11,” the intelligence official said. “There was no message from the field in those first hectic days that would have eliminated questions or proven who was behind the attack.”
He can believe him, or you can believe what the Sean Hannitys of the world are saying, which goes something like this:
– Jay Bookman
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899 comments Add your comment
pogo
October 25th, 2012
4:59 pm
At least in this latest desperate piece by Jay he didn’t blame the ambassador for his own death as he did the other day. Within two hours (or maybe less since we had a drone up there giving somebody somewhere a live feed of the attack complete with its mortar fire and automatic weapons fire) we knew it was a terrorist attack. Jay you are badly mistaken. There is plenty here that stinks and if you weren’t in some “Must get Obama re-elected” induced coma you would acknowledge it. But you won’t. If the tables were turned and the President was a republican and this would have happened, you and the NYT’s would be calling for their head. What is truly “Hillarious” is that Hillary Clinton has destroyed both her reputation and her political career trying to protect a self-enamoured megalomaniac (Obama) who really doesn’t give a doo-diddly-damn about her. Peoples careers and reputations seem to not last long around Obama, do they? What is the reason for that?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 25th, 2012
5:00 pm
0311 — “I have posted this before but I will say it again. For many years I planned arrests, search warrants, raids, buy-busts, etc. If anyone had been seriously injured or killed under my supervision, EVERYTHING I did (or didn’t do) would have been investigated and scrutinized and I would have been held to account.”
Again, I have no argument with this. I agree that more security was needed (especially if the Ambassador planned to operate away from his Embassy for an extended period of time) and I don’t dispute that more assets could have been secured *somehow.*
My interest is where that authority resides within (presumably?) the State Department and how/from where funds to support that short-term requirement could have been obtained. I feel pretty sure that that authority is somewhere pretty short of the Oval Office; I can’t see the President (or even Secretary Clinton) having to sign off on every procurement request from every Federal department.
I’m sure you recall that requests require a certain level of authority to sign off on them, depending on what they are. Some medals can be awarded by a battalion commader, while others require brigade-level approval and some higher than that. Same thing with requisitions; a battalion commander could probably get an extra case or two of M16 ammo for training purposes, but if he needed a truckload of it, he’d have to make his case to the brigade or division CO (or even higher).
I expect that there was probably some senior administrator (or perhaps executive-level person) at State who had responsibility for approving/disapproving the Ambassador’s requests.
curious
October 25th, 2012
5:01 pm
RF
” If there’s blame to lay, it seems to me the CIA should be shouldering some if not most of it, and they’re getting a pass here for reasons I don’t understand.”
The right wing doesn’t care a single whit about the 4 who died. This is their opportunity to blame Obama.
Halftrack
October 25th, 2012
5:01 pm
Romney has been getting Intelligence briefing lately. He did not want to reveal too much in attacking Obummer with all his lies. Any common sense American can look at the news and can tell what went on. Obummer and Company are out in left field and incompetent, on purpose, or not, anyway this is not who we want to lead our Country.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
October 25th, 2012
5:02 pm
NO ONE PLANNED for the worst contingency and the rest is history. Someone should be held to account.
Then write to republican congressman who VOTED for the cuts in security!! Scream, shout, send emails do whatever it takes to make sure that cuts in security of this magnitude NEVER happens again!
Oh wait — i forgot, you don’t give a damn about that ^^ do you? You just want something to crucify Obama with.
How sad for you.
PS: I hope in 2016, (After Obama wins 2012), the next president is an Lesbian Arab Woman who supports abortions, and outlaws talk radio.
The one after she does her 8 years can be a Gay Male who will finally push for full citizenship of all gay individuals. No more separate but equal status for things like being able to marry who they love, etc.
After the gay male, I want a wise Latina — she can be straight, doesnt matter to me; I want her to take over and REALLY whip some azz.
After the wise Latina, let’s have a black woman up in there. Let’s talk about equal pay then and how as a brown woman she makes LESS than an equally educated and experienced white man or woman.
After that, I want to see one of the Obama girls follow in Dad’s footsteps — If hillary’s daughter doesn’t get in there first.
marko
October 25th, 2012
5:03 pm
Karl Rove once said that guys on the left were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” … “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” – Ron Suskind, New York Times.
Remember that next time you find yourself debating with a ditto head. You’re going to find yourself at a serious disadvantage You are bound by the laws of science, physics and other quaint old fashioned forms of discernable reality. The ditto head on the other hand knows that reality’s what ever Rush says it is. Rush chose to flunk out of college rather than allow himself to be corrupted by the forces of the reality based community.
R. K. Biggs
October 25th, 2012
5:05 pm
If you want to earn a Pulitzer, Jay, I suggest you spend your time investigating the Libya screwup by BO and his “transparent” administration – the way the liberal media did with Watergate, in which no one died!
USMC
October 25th, 2012
5:07 pm
“If you want to earn a Pulitzer, Jay, I suggest you spend your time investigating the Libya screwup by BO and his “transparent” administration – the way the liberal media did with Watergate, in which no one died!” R.K. Biggs
The Party Operatives won’t allow it. Jay is on a short leash!
Mr_B
October 25th, 2012
5:08 pm
I’m honestly curious about this, Scout. If, in your Marine days you unit had carried out an assault against the headquarters of a VC political officer, and killed the personnel found there, would that have been considered an “act of terrorism?”
John Smith
October 25th, 2012
5:08 pm
After reading all these comments, I wonder if there are any heterosexuals residing in Atlanta. Look sissy boys. They RAPED our Ambassador! After they killed him! Its been six weeks! When are we going to do something about this. I don’t care if you are for Obama or Romney. Have some pride in being an American. Or get a job being a male? broadcaster for NPR.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:08 pm
USMC
Here’s what I said, though it was in English…this is a real, duh moment with the blue nose, imeoiauo
“N’est-ce pas celui-là un bruit? Cette meute des petits-bourgeois … oy!”
USMC
October 25th, 2012
5:09 pm
“I’m honestly curious about this, Scout. If, in your Marine days you unit had carried out an assault against the headquarters of a VC political officer, and killed the personnel found there, would that have been considered an “act of terrorism?””–Mr. Bigs
Well there is no mistaking it…. we are certainly on JAY BOOKMAN’s blog…
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:10 pm
“The right wing doesn’t care a single whit about the 4 who died. This is their opportunity to blame Obama”
I suspect for some, that’s true. While we “debate” what a “rape” is and whether or not there should be “exceptions” to abortion restrictions and make that a campaigh issue, I have to wonder if anything coming out of that side of the aisle has any real basis in reality.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:10 pm
WHOAH…
The blue nose don’t like it in French, either. Snagged 5:08! IMAM….????
Let’s try this…
N’est-ce pas celui-là un bruit? Cette meute des petits-bourgeois …!
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
October 25th, 2012
5:11 pm
Remember that next time you find yourself debating with a ditto head. You’re going to find yourself at a serious disadvantage You are bound by the laws of science, physics and other quaint old fashioned forms of discernable reality
Good point. I’m out. Later Gators.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:11 pm
Nope…
Okay, let’s go for this…
N’est-ce pas celui-là un bruit? Cette meute des xxxxx … oy!
TaxPayer
October 25th, 2012
5:11 pm
Well there is no mistaking it…. we are certainly on JAY BOOKMAN’s blog
Quit eating Rush Limbaugh’s brownies and then maybe you can keep up.
Jay
October 25th, 2012
5:12 pm
John Smith, Ambassador Stevens was not raped. If you get some sordid pleasure out of thinking otherwise, go somewhere else and and enjoy yourself with that fiction.
USMC
October 25th, 2012
5:12 pm
Josef, vous savez que le son qui se déclenche tous les jours plus à l’école???
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:12 pm
“Look sissy boys. They RAPED our Ambassador! After they killed him! Its been six weeks!”
As one of them “sissy boys”, I think you are far more obsessed with that issue than anyone on this blog is…better do some soul searching about your own life, Johnnyboy.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:14 pm
HEY, FOLKS
The blue nose is a classist…! She don’t like the French for this group…
p-e-t-i-t b-o-u-r-g-e-o-i-s
Go figure that,,,
Krystal'sBalls
October 25th, 2012
5:15 pm
“Jay
October 25th, 2012
2:59 pm
Thanks, USMC, for proving my point so damn eloquently.”
ROFLMAO!!! I have NO REASON to submit another post on this particular thread right here.
USMC
October 25th, 2012
5:15 pm
Ambassador Stevens Was Raped Before His Murder, Reports Claim…
http://www.inquisitr.com/330504/ambassador-stevens-was-raped-before-his-murder-reports-claim/
Some sources are REPORTING that the Ambassador WAS unfortunately raped before murdered.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 25th, 2012
5:16 pm
J. Smith — “After reading all these comments, I wonder if there are any heterosexuals residing in Atlanta. Look sissy boys. They RAPED our Ambassador! After they killed him! Its been six weeks! When are we going to do something about this. I don’t care if you are for Obama or Romney. Have some pride in being an American.”
What’s keeping you from catching a plane over there and doing something about it personally, tough guy?
Delta’s got flights and/or codeshares to Cairo and Tunis, Tunisia. You can roadmarch to Libya from there, right?
nelson
October 25th, 2012
5:17 pm
Ms Rice is not the sec of state, unfortunately HillarY is, and she is no condi rice. It is a “data fog” that the administration is trying to “spoon feed” the populance, proganda, half truths,falsehoods, misrepresntation of facts, innuendo and all out lying. The people deserve better.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:17 pm
RF
As a “sissy boy”, too…I concur..
IMAM
Thanks for freeing up the snagged…kinda interesting what threw it into moderation, eh? I wonder what the combination of letters was, or if the Blue Nose is just a you-know-what with a chip on her middle class shoulder,,,
USMC
October 25th, 2012
5:17 pm
“ROFLMAO!!! I have NO REASON to submit another post on this particular thread right here.”
What do you mean I’m funny?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSWmEFVvghg
Peter
October 25th, 2012
5:18 pm
USMC ….. OBAMA LIED…. PEOPLE DIED!
Most ridicules statement after 911 and the Iraq War…. and of course a waste of 3 plus trillion of tax payers money.
WOW….. what a comparison ?
Jay
October 25th, 2012
5:18 pm
No, USMC, they are not.
One wacko Lebanese outfit claimed it, citing a Reuters report as its source. Reuters pointed out that it never issued such a report. That’s the entire extent of it. A few fringe-right blogs nonetheless latched onto it out of some perverted sense of excitement about it.
Peter
October 25th, 2012
5:20 pm
USMC too bad Bush and your Republican boys didn’t have the balls to get Bin Laden.
But we all know they wanted to start the war to bilk America.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 25th, 2012
5:21 pm
Jay — “One wacko Lebanese outfit claimed it, citing a Reuters report as its source. Reuters pointed out that it never issued such a report. That’s the entire extent of it.”
I’m pretty sure that you;ve pointed that out before; not sure if it was to USMC or not.
Jay
October 25th, 2012
5:21 pm
josef, i think it was “petits”, or the last four letters thereof.
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:22 pm
“A few fringe-right blogs nonetheless latched onto it out of some perverted sense of excitement about it.”
Me thinks there may be a few undiscovered Larry Craig’s out there. Another reason to avoid airport bathrooms, IMO.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 25th, 2012
5:24 pm
Me thinks there may be a few undiscovered Larry Craig’s out there. Another reason to avoid airport bathrooms, IMO.
And yet soooo many of them like to put their foot in their mouths…. eeewwwhhhh…
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:25 pm
JAY
Thanks…that must’ve been it…I didn’t catch that…wonder why?
Jay
October 25th, 2012
5:26 pm
I guess you have to be looking for it, Josef :>)
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:26 pm
Here’s what Panetta said today:
“(The) basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on; without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,” Panetta told Pentagon reporters. “And as a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, Gen. Ham, Gen. Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”
So a couple of generals working in the area didn’t have time or the intel to know enough about what was going on to send troops in…but the con line is “it’s Obama’s fault!” But then we tout “trusting” the military leaders on the ground…
southern white boy
October 25th, 2012
5:27 pm
i will pay attention to all the right wing attack dogs on libya when they hold bush, cheney, rumsfield and saint reagan to the same standard. ronald reagan, who had our beirut marine barracks attacked, resulting in more than 200 of our bravest killed, whose response was to deny blame and cut and run. would also like them to explain how a president who chose to serve his country during vietnam just like cheney and rumsfield, with deferments, though in romney’s case he was busy recruiting mormons: in paris, france. tough duty. am tired of cowboy warriors.
saywhat?
October 25th, 2012
5:27 pm
JHM-
Equating 9/11 and Benghazi is preposterous. While both were attacks against the U.S. the similarities (except for one, which I will get to) end there. The major differences of the scale, magnitude and complexity of the attacks themselves, the planning involved, the warning signs available to intelligence agencies, the long term effects of the attacks (physical, emotional, financial, legal/policy etc) are lightyears apart between the two.
The only similarity is that both were conceivably preventable, at least when looked at in hindsight. Bush and his administration could have done their job and focused intelligence resources where they belonged instead of on political or ideological nonsense (the war on internet porn anyone?).
Benghazi might have been prevented if the ambassador had been forced to travel with a large military escort. Whether this options was possible or even diplomatically desirable, I don’t know.
As for the Presidents themselves? When Al Qaeda attacked the United States from Afghanistan (or from Saudi Arabia ?) Bush invaded Afghanistan, and then Iraq. Brilliant. Nary a peep in protest from the right wing. Where was the right wing outrage over the official Bush Admin reports that the air quality in Manhattan was fine after the collapse of the towers, i.e. an actual lie that had actual consequences to the American people?
When persons unknown attacked a backwater third-world diplomatic outpost, and the administration responds by releasing information thought to be true at the time, and is slow to release further updated but unconfirmed information as it comes in, this is a cause for a big scandal?
The wing nuts are holding this administration to a heads we win, tails you lose standard. If any information the administration releases immediately, without first thoroughly investigating it, turns out to be inaccurate, “they lied”. If they withhold information until it all can be thoroughly investigated, “they are stonewalling”, or “aren’t transparent”.
Losing their last two marbles is correct Jay.
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:28 pm
“And yet soooo many of them like to put their foot in their mouths…. eeewwwhhhh…”
Well, if you’re trying to hide the truth about your secret life, sometimes you have to take what you can get…
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:28 pm
curious
“The right wing doesn’t care a single whit about the 4 who died. This is their opportunity to blame Obama”
Yep.
saywhat?
October 25th, 2012
5:30 pm
ay
October 25th, 2012
5:12 pm
John Smith, Ambassador Stevens was not raped. If you get some sordid pleasure out of thinking otherwise, go somewhere else and and enjoy yourself with that fiction.
__________________________________________________________________
And even if he was, at least we can take comfort in the fact that any resulting offspring is God’s will.
Peter
October 25th, 2012
5:31 pm
USMC …….Some sources are REPORTING that the Ambassador WAS unfortunately raped before murdered.
Some sources are reporting Santa Claus will be flying on December 24th.
Jay
October 25th, 2012
5:31 pm
I hadn’t seen those statements from Panetta, but they make a lot of sense. The right is just behaving shamelessly on this.
Krystal'sBalls
October 25th, 2012
5:32 pm
No @USMC
I meant Jay ROASTED your ass! Of course, you likely only posted that reply to get me to break my own promise to clarify, which of course I had to to burst your bubble. Sorry.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:33 pm
JAY
Were your ears burning at about 7:30 a,m. today?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 25th, 2012
5:33 pm
saywhat — “JHM- Equating 9/11 and Benghazi is preposterous.”
Oh?
“The only similarity is that both were conceivably preventable, at least when looked at in hindsight. Bush and his administration could have done their job and focused intelligence resources where they belonged instead of on political or ideological nonsense (the war on internet porn anyone?).”
“Benghazi might have been prevented if the ambassador had been forced to travel with a large military escort. Whether this options was possible or even diplomatically desirable, I don’t know.”
Looks to me like you just equated the two in pretty much the same way I did. Thanks for backstopping me, buddy.
Peter
October 25th, 2012
5:33 pm
Some sources are reporting the Republican’s don’t know who to protect America !
Note see George Bush Jr. !
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:33 pm
@Jay: http://news.yahoo.com/panetta-us-lacked-early-benghazi-attack-185957680.html
AP’s got it. He is finally pointing out the obvious fact that even Gen Ham didn’t have time to decide if a military response was necessary.
Krystal'sBalls
October 25th, 2012
5:35 pm
@saywhat?
SAYWHAAAAAHhahaahahahhahah!! Man I couldn’t resist that one! Not to make light of the man’s death and all. Fortunately, I am capable of discerning; I get the point. Good one.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:35 pm
SAYWHAT
That was tacky. Rape is not a laughing matter under any circumstances.
Mr_B
October 25th, 2012
5:37 pm
“Well there is no mistaking it…. we are certainly on JAY BOOKMAN’s blog… ”
Yeah, we already knew that, USMC. Would you like to take a crack at answering my question?
saywhat?
October 25th, 2012
5:38 pm
josef-
I was not laughing at rape. I was laughing at republicans.
Jay
October 25th, 2012
5:38 pm
No, Josef, not that I noticed. :>)
independent thinker
October 25th, 2012
5:38 pm
Great article Jay. Several things worth mentioning that are above and beyond the cons ability to understand Middle East politics:
1. Furor over the movie created by some right wing religious nuts in the US dissipated quickly due to Obama’s actions;
2.This week the following countries countries collaborated to capture or kill the assassins of our ambassador: Turkey, Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.
3. Obama has unlike the neocons avoided every temptation to put boots on the ground in Libya or elsewhere in the region;
4. Contrary to that fake boogeyman routine in the debate by Romney that we all need to hide because Al Quaida is back hunting Americans, it should be noted that we have successfully chased them out of Afghanistan, Yemen and now Somalia.
5. A combined US, Kenyan, French and Israeli military effort wiped out Al Quaida in Somalia a few weeks ago.
6. Fundamentalists have been hunted down by Egypt and Israel in the Sinai and Egypt has taken a hard line on Hamas.
7. Thousands of Libyans took to the streets condemning the assassination of our Ambassador.
8. Israel wiped out Iranian long range missiles this week being manufactured or stored in Sudan on a long range bombing mission with no protests from other Arab countries.
So tell me cons and Mr. Romney how Obama’s policies are failing in the Muslim world and how Bush/Cheney did more to prevent terrorism??????????????.
ragnar danneskjold
October 25th, 2012
5:40 pm
Could have fooled me, I would have sworn Obama went to the UN and proclaimed a video caused crazed Muslims to riot. Even though, per CBS, he really knew al Qaeda was the attacker in Libya.
Bottom line, the Egyptian riots proved the failure of the Obama foreign policy initiatives – witness how the “protective” Egyptian military stood down when they were obliged to protect the American embassy. And the murders in Libya prove that Obama’s execution of Osama bin Laden had no measurable effect on the vitality of al Qaeda.
I do not affirm that the democrats triumphal “dancing on Osama’s watery grave” – how’s that for a mixed metaphor – had anything to do with the Libyan attacks. Even though the crazed terrorists may have been provoked by the democrats repeatedly citing the single achievement of the Obama administration, the fact is that the Libyan operation reflects significant advance planning. My guess is that al Qaeda has been working toward that end since the death of bin Laden.
The Egyptian crowds chanting “we are all bin Ladens,” however, were likely provoked by the democrat trimuphalism – there is no real evidence of advance planning, other than the Egyptian military withdrawal. So who says the democrat convention didn’t accomplish anything?
Charles
October 25th, 2012
5:41 pm
And people wonder why newspapers are losing money and subscriptions? Case in point: Bookman,
TM
October 25th, 2012
5:42 pm
everybody makes a big deal that he did blame it on terrorists. The bigger question is why he blamed in on a movie in the first place.. Even the justice department had to question the guy who made the movie. Isn’t the proper response in the fog of war to say we are looking at all possibilities?.
Towncrier
October 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
“Even now, a month later, what Rice refers to as “the fog of war” has yet to lift. It took 10 days after the attack to even get FBI agents on the ground in Benghazi. To this day, there are still indications that the anti-Muslim video and the protests in Egypt played some role in what happened. There are still serious doubts whether the local militia group believed responsible has any ties whatsoever to al Qaida. And there is very good reason to believe that the attack was a crime of opportunity rather than some carefully planned military operation.”
Earth to Jay: no one has a problem with people being uncertain as to who was responsible for the attack. Indeed, most of the statements issued by the Obama administration were very guarded and expressed uncertainty. That changed a few days after the attack, however.
Jay Carney said on September 14th that “We have no information to suggest that it was a preplanned attack.”
That is patently false. The e-mails we have just learned about indicating that terrorists were taking credit for that attack is, IN FACT, information suggestive of a “preplanned attack”.
On September 16th, Susan Rice declared that
“There was a hateful video that was disseminated on the Internet. It had nothing to do with the United States government, and it’s one that we find disgusting and reprehensible. It’s been offensive to many, many people around the world. That sparked violence in various parts of the world, including violence directed against Western facilities including our embassies and consulates.”
and about the attack in Benghazi that:
“Our current best assessment, based on the information that we have at present, is that, in fact, what this began as, it was a spontaneous — not a premeditated — response to what had transpired in Cairo.”
and:
“But putting together the best information that we have available to us today our current assessment is that what happened in Benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in Cairo, almost a copycat of– of the demonstrations against our facility in Cairo, which were prompted, of course, by the video.”
These are definitive statements, which are to this day – given even generous Jay’s stance – are not unequivocally substantiated by the evidence. They were CERTAINLY not “facts”.
Jay Carney said on September 18th that:
“Our belief, based on the information we have, is it was the video that caused the unrest in Cairo, and the video and the unrest in Cairo that helped — that precipitated some of the unrest in Benghazi and elsewhere. What other factors were involved is a matter of investigation.”
Again, another definitive statement when none was really warranted.
Then Obama himself on September 20th said that:
“What we do know is that the natural protests that arose because of the outrage over the video were used as an excuse by extremists to see if they can also directly harm U.S. interests.”
Yet another definitive statement when none was really warranted.
What people have a problem with is Obama and his administration giving people the STRONG impression that it was the result of a spontaneous uprising in response to an anti-Islamic film when what should have been continually said is that we are unclear as to the cause. Why would anyone do that when the evidence was not conclusive and that there was clearly a strong military component to the attack?
I think it is clear to the objective observer that there is something fishy about Obama and his administration’s attempt to color the attack more as mob violence than anything else. And then there are people like Jay who want to cover over this problem by culling out a few quotes from a characteristically politic and restrained Condalezza Rice. Obama has shown his cruder side lately by calling Romney a ***********. Maybe it’s a case of the pot (and liberals like Jay) calling the kettle black.
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
“And people wonder why newspapers are losing money and subscriptions?”
Perhaps it’s because many prefer their “news” from the lips of the sainted Rush, Sean, and Bill. Goodness knows if Fox says it, it must be true. Why bother to read and consider all the facts?
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
Saywhat…
No. I don’t buy that. I know what you were referring to, I also know what you said.
JAY
Well, you know how they say you never know what an impact you may be making on someone’s life? My hat’s off to ya, Mec…good job…!
saywhat?
October 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
JHM, perhaps I did backstop you, in your mind, but that single comparison is meaningless in comparison to the magnitude of differences between the two events. An annoying 6 year old and Hitler may at some point in time have both worn pants and eaten oatmeal, but that hardly makes them equivalent in any meaningful way, or in the big picture.
They BOTH suck
October 25th, 2012
5:45 pm
Raga
Gouda or feta to go with your usual whine?
jose
October 25th, 2012
5:45 pm
The facts that have come out are 1) the Embassy asked repeatedly for more security, 2) there had been a previous attempt 3) there are questions about why the Ambassador was not as the safer location in Tripoli given that they new security was threatened, 4) the WH knew within hours that it had been a terrorist attack yet persisted in calling it something else 5) they immediately withdrew all Americans…including CIA and other intelligence contacts and 6) they weren’t able to get FBI investigaters on the ground for almost a month after the attack. So, no matter who the president, this is a big fat fail and I would have a lot more respect for President Obama (and for you, Jay) if for once, he just said “we screwed up”.
Jay
October 25th, 2012
5:46 pm
TM, if you want to question whether it would have been wiser to say nothing instead of link it to the video, that’s a fair question. It’s also worth about half a news cycle. You would also have to address Romney’s extremely haste condemnation of Obama for supposedly sympathizing with those who killed Americans.
That’s a vast difference from the downright operatic howling coming from the right.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:46 pm
independent thinker
Word.
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:47 pm
“And then there are people like Jay who want to cover over this problem by culling out a few quotes from a characteristically politic and restrained Condalezza Rice.”
Well, if you listen to the question and her answer, you can’t help but realize she’s speaking some truth. No culling of quotes necessary. She’s the best…until she doesn’t support the party line on this issue, right?
Charles
October 25th, 2012
5:49 pm
RF .. if you read the emails from the night of the attack you might learn something. But obviously you don’t have the mental capacity to do that and rely on MSNBC, NBC and CBS to get your “facts”. Moron.
luangtom
October 25th, 2012
5:51 pm
Heck, where has Oprah been during all of this?
They BOTH suck
October 25th, 2012
5:51 pm
Charles
And since you know exactly what went took place, lay it for us or better yet contact the FBI who is doing the research and analysis. Sure they could use some of the “facts” you have on this case.
Towncrier
October 25th, 2012
5:52 pm
“The bigger question is why he blamed in on a movie in the first place.. Even the justice department had to question the guy who made the movie. Isn’t the proper response in the fog of war to say we are looking at all possibilities?”
Exactly. But no liberal seems to like the suggestion that Obama and his administration may have been playing politics (or worse) with this situation – the opposite of what Obama solemnly claimed in his second debate with Romney. If he has indeed been playing politics despite what would then be faux indignation at the idea in the debate, just what kind of liar would he be? A monumental one.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 25th, 2012
5:52 pm
saywhat — “JHM, perhaps I did backstop you, in your mind, but that single comparison is meaningless in comparison to the magnitude of differences between the two events.”
Then you’ve pretty clearly misread me, since my discussion had more to do with the political *flogging* of both events for political gain rather than the events themselves.
“An annoying 6 year old and Hitler may at some point in time have both worn pants and eaten oatmeal, but that hardly makes them equivalent in any meaningful way, or in the big picture.”
Agreed. And yet entirely irrelevant to the point I made.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 25th, 2012
5:53 pm
I’m out; all be well and drive safely.
Doggone/GA
October 25th, 2012
5:54 pm
“HillarY is, and she is no condi rice”
And I thank GOD for that.
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:54 pm
Charles: sticks and stones, which I will not stoop to throw. I have read the e-mails, I’ve watched as much as possible of the hearings, and read up to and including today’s statements from Panetta, a link to which I posted above. The “facts” are still being learned, and the caution many are taking to find out as much as possible before assigning blame is exactly what needs to happen. This isn’t an Old West film, and John Wayne isn’t going to swagger in and kill some injuns to make everyone feel better. Perhaps Mr. Romney should have taken the time to learn “facts” before he tried in vain to score some political points in his hasty commentary. It will be some time before we get what unclassified information we can, and I for one choose NOT to jump to judgment and blame. At this point, do you think it wise to send troops into an unknown situation as General Ham, the commander on the ground in the region, has clearly stated could not safely be done?
USMC
October 25th, 2012
5:55 pm
The American Public is losing its Patience with The Obama regime over Benghazi.
josef
October 25th, 2012
5:55 pm
CHARLES
Well, even IF RF is, as you so eloquently put it, a moron, he’s not an idiot. Idiot.
They BOTH suck
October 25th, 2012
5:56 pm
TC
It could be all politics. Do you know that for a fact?
Or are you summarizing by picking and choosing which information you want to present just as some on the left are doing?
saywhat?
October 25th, 2012
5:57 pm
towncrier-
“I think it is clear to the objective observer that there is something fishy about Obama and his administration’s attempt to color the attack more as mob violence than anything else.”
———————————————————————————————————————————–
What exactly is the motive for this “something fishy”? Please be objective when you explain what political gains the Obama administration will have made if they “get away with pulling a fast one” over this.
Wouldn’t an objective observer consider that the administration (and likely Congress) will be investigating the incident thoroughly? And that any intentional telling of untruths would inevitably come to light?
Its time for an Occam’s razor moment here.
Which is the simplest, most likely explanation?
1)That Obama is trying to “hide something”, and if so what? If this is the simplest most likely explanation, the motive should be clearly evident.
1)Or that the facts leading up to the incident are still unclear and being investigated, resulting in inaccurate information being released in an effort to try and keep people informed?
Georgia
October 25th, 2012
5:57 pm
Hillary’s bungled cover up went awry when CNN showed that phoney 911 file footage of Palestinian Bridesmaids yodeling right after the news about Benghazi broke. How many times are they going to punk us like that?
Obama is over
October 25th, 2012
5:57 pm
So why didn’t the Obama administration just say we are gathering intelligence on what happened and can’t comment right now? Instead they tried to assign blame on someone else like they have on every single issue. We all watched Obama blame the inflamatory Youtube video and then deny it in debate number 2. Of course, the Candy defense and then later correction should be mentioned as well. FDR used to have fireside chats to discuss difficult issues on the radio. Over the course of six weeks, Obama got caught fabricating the truth in order to shift blame to someone else as usual. The never ending spin has created a credibility gap for Obama where the public simply does not believe him.The interesting thing to watch in my opinion is the behind the scenes deal cut with the Clintons. Bill has been distancing himself from Obama for the past few weeks. Hillary’s acceptance of responsibility for the Benghazi incident comes with a price. The Clintons will be head of the Democratic party and kick the Chicago crowd out once Obama loses. Bill wants to be the power behind the throne and has been hedging his bets. I loved the quote from Cleveland where Clinton said that he thought Obama was going to cry after not being able to answer the fellow who had lost confidence after supporting him in 2008. The fellow wanted to know what Obama was going to do about the rising cost of every day living and all he got was the standard bucket of killing bin Laden, ending Iraq, etc. A more appropriate Monty Python video describing Obama and the Benghazi situation would have been “Spam, Spam, Spam….”
Are lefties really this blind???
October 25th, 2012
5:58 pm
Enter your comments here
Pizzaman
October 25th, 2012
5:58 pm
It’s obvious none of us will change the mind of the other’s. Since I voted 2 weeks ago it doesn’t matter to me, except for the truth. I’ve read at least two articles the Ambassador Stevens was extremely gifted and thrived on “individual” contact to convert to our side. He knew the risks he was taking. Benghazi was not the Embassy and did not have the security. He knew the danger but had calculated the risk/reward value. Since he’s we’ll never know what he thought. But he was representing his Country.
The victims of 9/11 were innocent civilians murdered by extremists. The Bush administration’s attempts to spin it as anything other than the second Pearl Harbor were laughable. Saddam had nothing to do with it. All our brave men and women sacrificed for Bush agenda in Iraq should have been in pursuit of OBL. Bad Republican.
Any attempt to make Benghazi another 9/11 is desperate Republicans.
For all you Republicans supporting Willard, you don’t support the Military. He’s a draft dodger. USMC, since you use the letters, I assume you served. Any Vietnam vet supporting the Republican ticket has forgotten what we fought for and 58,000 of our comrades died for. At least I served and didn’t weasel my way out.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 25th, 2012
5:59 pm
Charles, I was content to be just a lurker but when you resort to name-calling…. I’ve read the emails and all they show is one small piece of a larger puzzle. Hardly a smoking gun of any sort. Just much ado about nothing. Unfortunately our diplomats and embassy staffs abroad are easy targets and over the years across administrations of both sides of the aisle have seen our brave and dedicated citizens become injured or killed. In fact, while no number greater than zero is acceptable, the Obama Administration has had remarkably few incidents of this type. Although I will grant you that’s probably the result of luck more than anything else.
RF
October 25th, 2012
5:59 pm
“But no liberal seems to like the suggestion that Obama and his administration may have been playing politics (or worse) with this situation”
If that were to be proven, then as a liberal I would fully support his impeachment. As much as I liked Clinton, I didn’t support his lying under oath, and he got what he deserved. BUT, that said, I don’t think at this early point we can determine what the WH knew as it put out those early statements. That’s the problem with the instant nature of news reporting in the media today- you don’t have time to do much more than speak to what information you have at hand, and everyone, including Leon Panetta and Gen Ham have stated clearly they didn’t know enough even as it was hitting the news channels and papers. It also doesn’t excuse Mr. Romney’s hasty response that was clearly a case of playing politics from someone even further removed from the situation that the news media.
Are lefties really this blind???
October 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
Nice spin Pizzaman! If it wasn’t for the Bush admin….OBL would still be alive…
josef
October 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
Oh, yes, RIP Russell Means…
Towncrier
October 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
“It could be all politics. Do you know that for a fact?”
What I think I know is that the statements made Obama and his administration for a period of about a week don’t square with 1) the evidence we now have and 2) their own admission that things were uncertain. That is, they made pretty definitive statements when none should have been made. And I am at a complete loss to explain it. It is more than just confusion. That is the ONLY issue I have with the Bengahzi matter. And I am unwilling to dismiss it away.
Jay
October 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
Jose, almost every one of the “facts” that you present is wrong.
1.) The requests for greater security were for the embassy at Tripoli, not Benghazi. Security officials had requested four diplomatic security officers at Benghazi. There were five when the attack came. Even if the number had been doubled, to 10, they would not have been able to hold off an attack of the size mounted.
2.) I have seen no documentation of an earlier attack on our Benghazi consulate, especially of this severity.
3.) According to National Journal, Director of Intelligence James Clapper “recently told an annual conference of intelligence professionals that there was no warning to Stevens or anyone else that he was about to be targeted by an organized extremist attack.”
4.) The administration did NOT know within hours; what it had within hours was a ton of contradictory raw data that it had to sift through. There is NO evidence that political concerns dictated or influenced conclusions. If such evidence does emerge, that’s a different matter. But to date there is no evidence.
5.) Yes, all remaining Americans were withdrawn, as they should have been.
6.) Yes, it took several weeks to get an FBI team on the ground there. That ought to make you a little less hasty in condemning the administration for failing to get the story immediately, given that we couldn’t even put investigators at the scene.
I understand that none of this “factual” stuff is going to dissuade you at all, because it isn’t about facts for you in the first place.
They BOTH suck
October 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
TC
Are you of the notion that Republicans would not play politics with this issue to help Romney?
curious
October 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
Let’s cut the crap and get to the bottom of this.
call out Trump’s expert investigators!
Rafe Hollister
October 25th, 2012
6:02 pm
Bush took 8 minutes to react to 9/11, before getting engaged and Media was enraged. Obama took less than 12 hours to decide Benghazi, was caused by a video, and head off to Las Vegas for fun raising, media absent.
Doggone/GA
October 25th, 2012
6:02 pm
“the Embassy asked repeatedly for more security”
The embassy may well have…but the embassy is in Tripoli. The office in Benghazi was a consulate, not an embassy.
Towncrier
October 25th, 2012
6:02 pm
“If that were to be proven, then as a liberal I would fully support his impeachment. As much as I liked Clinton, I didn’t support his lying under oath, and he got what he deserved. BUT, that said, I don’t think at this early point we can determine what the WH knew as it put out those early statements.”
Good for you and agreed.
RF
October 25th, 2012
6:03 pm
“Well, even IF RF is, as you so eloquently put it, a moron, he’s not an idiot”
Thanks for the props, Josef. Just don’t ask my teenage boys about the idiot…they’d all too quickly say I am!!
Parenting is MUCH worse than being a candidate for President, in my opinion, when the rugrats become teens.
Karl Rove
October 25th, 2012
6:04 pm
Don’t listen to Condi; she’s got her panties in a wad because she did not get the VP slot.
Look our boys Bush and Cheney learned that you got to put a good terrorism scare in the voters to get them to vote for our guys. We got all the country thinking now that Romney is a better Commander in Chief than Obama. The voters have gotten this Benghazi thing on their minds and could care less about who dropped the ball on 9-11 or who screwed up in Iraq or even how ole Ronnie had 249 marines killed in Lebanon and turned tail and ran. Just keep beating that Obama screwed up drum and scare everyone real good in thinking terrorists are under every rock.
Just remember if you pass gas in public, blame the other guy.
Jm
October 25th, 2012
6:04 pm
Next week, after McCain defends another civil servant from unreasonable persecution, or defends a liberal womans honor
Bookman will adjust his McCain respect knob again
They BOTH suck
October 25th, 2012
6:05 pm
TC
I will wait for the FBI report. As RF stated, if it shows some negligible actions and / or cover up by the administration then I think they get what they deserve.
I can say that some on the right seem to already know all the answers, but they don’t. Not say you have indicated that you have all the answers, but based on some of the post on this subject and listening to several different radio pundits, I wonder why the FBI is not getting the “real story” from these folks
Gmare
October 25th, 2012
6:06 pm
Hi, blog buddies. Totally off topic – will read that later. For now, for those of you holding good thoughts re my health problems, I STILL don’t know when the surgery will be. Have to see yet another specialist. SIGH!
Jm
October 25th, 2012
6:07 pm
Bennnnnnnnghazigaaaaaate!
Not really. I just wanted to say that.