Those who push “apology tour” owe us an apology
In the debate Monday night, Mitt Romney once again resorted to his claim that President Obama had conducted an overseas “apology tour,” in which he allegedly traveled “to various nations in the Middle East and criticizing America.” As Obama quickly noted, that claim has been debunked as a fabrication by every fact-check organization that has looked at it.
However, that clearly hasn’t dissuaded the Romney camp from continuing to use the claim. In fact, Jennifer Rubin, a conservative columnist for the Washington Post known for her very tight ties to the Romney campaign, devoted her column Tuesday to explaining why in fact the “apology tour” claim is accurate.
As she writes:
“I am hardly the first to compile lists of apologetic utterances from Obama. These include an apology in front of the Turkish Parliament: ‘Another issue that confronts all democracies as they move to the future is how we deal with the past. The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history.’”
That’s an “apology”? I do not see an apology, or anything resembling an apology. Just to confirm the fact, here’s the quotation with a little more context:
“The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history. Facing the Washington Monument that I spoke of is a memorial of Abraham Lincoln, the man who freed those who were enslaved even after Washington led our Revolution. Our country still struggles with the legacies of slavery and segregation, the past treatment of Native Americans.”
Again, no apology, just a simple, humble acknowledgement of historical fact.
But why, you may ask, was Obama even raising those issues before a foreign parliament? In that 2009 speech, the president went on to urge Turkey, a longtime U.S. ally, to try to resolve its longstanding differences with neighboring Armenia. Those differences have at their foundation the mass genocide at Turkish hands of as many as 1.5 million ethnic Armenians beginning in 1915.
As Obama told the Turkish legislators, in words that were controversial in Turkey at the time:
“Each country must work through its past. And reckoning with the past can help us seize a better future. I know there’s strong views in this chamber about the terrible events of 1915. And while there’s been a good deal of commentary about my views, it’s really about how the Turkish and Armenian people deal with the past. And the best way forward for the Turkish and Armenian people is a process that works through the past in a way that is honest, open and constructive.”
I suppose that Obama could have tried a different approach. Instead of acknowledging that America too has made mistakes, Obama could have gone the high and mighty route, broaching the delicate issue of Armenia by telling Turkish leaders that we in the United States have demonstrated ourselves at all times to be paragons of perfection, and that they ought to at least try to follow our pristine example.
Somehow, I doubt that would go over very well.
The Turkish example is interesting for another reason. Echoing the Romney/Rubin theory that it is wrong to ever admit a national mistake, the Turks have made it a major crime under Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code to even mention the Armenian genocide in public, with jail terms of as long as three years. That, I suppose, takes care of the apology tour issue, although it is not a productive way for a democracy to conduct its affairs.
Another example of a supposed apology cited by Rubin is even more telling. In 2009, in a televised speech to the American people, Obama announced that, among other steps, he had signed an executive order ending the use of “enhanced interrogation”, more plainly known as torture. As Rubin quotes him:
“Unfortunately, faced with an uncertain threat, our government made a series of hasty decisions. … I also believe that all too often our government made decisions based on fear rather than foresight; that all too often our government trimmed facts and evidence to fit ideological predispositions. Instead of strategically applying our power and our principles, too often we set those principles aside as luxuries that we could no longer afford. And during this season of fear, too many of us — Democrats and Republicans, politicians, journalists, and citizens — fell silent. In other words, we went off course.”
With those words, Obama was attempting to express his disagreement with policies that had been adopted by the Bush administration. But to Rubin, it is something much more sinister.
“Liberals don’t even see that Obama’s excoriating his predecessor is apologizing for this nation, but of course it is. George W. Bush wasn’t acting as a private citizen, and whatever he actions he took were done in the name of the United States.”
Criticizing decisions made by George Bush equates to apologizing for this nation? By trotting out such lame arguments, Rubin succeeds only in confirming just how irresponsible the “apology tour” claim really is.
– Jay Bookman
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488 comments Add your comment
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:40 pm
ben
Who’s more dangerous and powerful, corporate thugs or union thugs?
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:40 pm
“That declaration had no practical outcomes. It was simply formalization of what was already an ongoing relationship.”
Soooooo. Most favored nation status has no real advantages and “no practical outcomes”? Only in liberal fantasyland. Try telling that to nations that don’t have it with us. Wiki
Trade experts consider MFN clauses to have the following benefits:[citation needed]
A country that grants MFN on imports will have its imports provided by the most efficient supplier. This may not be the case if tariffs differ by country.
MFN allows smaller countries, in particular, to participate in the advantages that larger countries often grant to each other, whereas on their own, smaller countries would often not be powerful enough to negotiate such advantages by themselves.
Granting MFN has domestic benefits: having one set of tariffs for all countries simplifies the rules and makes them more transparent. It also lessens the frustrating problem of having to establish rules of origin to determine which country a product (that may contain parts from all over the world) must be attributed to for customs purposes.
MFN restrains domestic special interests from obtaining protectionist measures. For example, butter producers in country A may not be able to lobby for high tariffs on butter to prevent cheap imports from developing country B, because, as the higher tariffs would apply to every country, the interests of A’s principal ally C might get impaired.
As MFN clauses promote non-discrimination among countries, they also tend to promote the objective of free trade in general.
Jay
October 24th, 2012
2:40 pm
No, Ben.
YOU are dismissed for the day.
You will be allowed to return tomorrow.
H. E. Pennypacker
October 24th, 2012
2:42 pm
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know……this last part of the famous Donald Rumsfeld quote reminds me of every Ben posting today.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:42 pm
“Who’s more dangerous and powerful, corporate thugs or union thugs?”
Lets ask Jimmy Hoffa’s family.
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
2:42 pm
I am still waiting for an explanation from Jay (or anyone else) for the very puzzling statements made by the Obama administration in the wake of the Bengahzi consulate attack given the mounting evidence that it had intelligence that it was a terrorist attack. Does anyone want to claim that it has NOT become increasingly difficult to square these statements with the emerging reality?
To me, it is inexplicable. I am here, in a better frame of mind, attempting to give Obama and his administration the benefit of doubt. If they had said from the outset “we are not sure about who was behind the attack” (or some such thing), we would not now be having this conversation. There would be no problem.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:42 pm
Jhunt — “Plus DIP financing was recommended with Government guarantees.”
Which Romney argued against. DIP financing would have been part of the managed bankruptcy. The carmakers in question wouldn’t have lasted through the bankruptcy without it.
“I am sure someone would have picked that up. There is a whole industry buying failed banks with guarantees from the FDIC.”
Actually, the government intended those guarantees to be used for making more loans, e.g. an injection of liquidity to consumers. Banks wound up using those guarantees to buy assets and shore up their balance sheets, contrary to how the government wanted them used.
Doggone/GA
October 24th, 2012
2:42 pm
“YOU are dismissed for the day”
I wonder if he ever goes to visit friends at their homes and then tries to throw them out the front door?
Don't Tread
October 24th, 2012
2:43 pm
We won the Cold War by locking Communist countries out of our economy. We prospered while they stagnated. It should have stayed that way after the Cold War was over.
indigo
October 24th, 2012
2:43 pm
Romney knows many in his party are desperate for a whiter White House but cannot say so publicly. So, he throws them the “apology tour” story and they gladly believe it since no one will call them out for being the racists they are.
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:43 pm
Back to the original discussion; we demand an apology for the false characterization of an “apology tour” it’s simply taking the spoken word and transforming it to what you WANT to hear – unacceptable!!!
Union
October 24th, 2012
2:44 pm
with all the distractions.. and all of the diversions that the obama campaign has had to endure.. it really wouldnt be an issue if he was half a leader.. never seemed to faze bill clinton very much..
as for bush.. move on.. move forward.. or whatever we are supposed to do.. the man has been gone for 4 years now…. if obama gets reelected.. not sure what the dem party will say 7.5 years from now.. they still going to blame bush?
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2012
2:44 pm
the UAW thugs
Ok, just for fun: How much would YOU toss Mitt Romney’s way in exchange for him using that^^ particular expression in an Ohio stump speech this week?
Doggone/GA
October 24th, 2012
2:45 pm
“Back to the original discussion; we demand an apology for the false characterization of an “apology tour””
and I refer you, too, to my post about how to tell when a child is maturing into an adult!
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:45 pm
doom
No, let’s ask haliburton or koch industries…
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:45 pm
“Are you also able to tell if people are really Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, etc?”
Come on now. On Earth only Obama is omniscient and knows these things. Just like only he knows that Austrians secretly speak Austrian when no one else is around.
RB from Gwinnett
October 24th, 2012
2:45 pm
Joe, you’re DENSE. Obama said US auto production would have ceased. Obama said it Joe. OBAMA. Defend his if you can.
And aquisition is always an option in bankruptcy, Joe. It’s becoming pretty clear you’re just repeating stuff you heard somewhere and don’t really know how the process works.
getalife
October 24th, 2012
2:46 pm
“Lets ask Jimmy Hoffa’s family.”
Lets ask the 9 million that lost their jobs then suicide.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:47 pm
H. E. Pennypacker — “Last time, with no liquidity, there is nothing to manage other than liquidation.”
Which seems to be what both Romney and RB would have wanted to happen. The difference is that RB’s not afraid to say it.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:47 pm
getalife:
9 million suicides? Then the job figures should be much better than they are !
RB from Gwinnett
October 24th, 2012
2:47 pm
Jay, avoiding my question about the video?
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:47 pm
Mick,
Koch card has already been pulled multiple times today. Haliburton??? What the hell? I’ll go ahead and say it so you don’t have to like I know you’re itching to. Its Bush’s fault.
Thrash
October 24th, 2012
2:47 pm
Defending the brown clown again… ??? Wipe off your nose Jay.
Tommy Maddox
October 24th, 2012
2:47 pm
Speaking of apologies, how’s that Benghazi info coming along?
They BOTH suck
October 24th, 2012
2:48 pm
Thulsa
No, you come on now. You made the idiotic statement that the man was not a Christian.
Based on that I was asking if you are able to determine that same thing for other religions.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2012
2:48 pm
desperate for a whiter White House but cannot say so publicly. So, he throws them the “apology tour” story
indigo, if you’re interested, Amanda Marcotte picked up that ball and ran with it yesterday…
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/23/foreign-policy-debate-devolves-into-conspiracy-theory-wanking/
“Apology tour” is basically Birtherism, dressed up in slightly nicer clothes. It’s part of a larger constellation of right wing myths and conspiracy theories that point to their belief that Obama is Not One of Us, and by One of Us, they don’t mean “Republicans”. There’s other notes on the Barack Obama Isn’t a “Real American” instrument: “Muslim”, “reparations”, “birth certificate”. All of these are elaborate ways to assert the idea that black Americans aren’t real Americans, but do so in a way that avoids coming right out and saying so. Obama has been seen as being a bit ornery (though less so than Romney) these past two debates, but considering the willingness of Romney to blow the dog whistle right in his face, I would say that Obama shows a remarkable amount of calm.
Will it work? The entire Republican strategy has been to argue, usually implicitly but sometimes explicitly, that Americans elected Obama in an effort to prove that we’re hip enough to be down with a black President, but now that we’ve had our fun, it’s time to suck it up and return power to its rightful white owners. The hope is that by hinting around that narrative, some white voters who broke for Obama in 2008 will let their prejudices wear down their resolve to continue to support the better candidate, and cave in the booth for the white guy. Basically, an electoral white flight strategy: You know intellectually that black family that moved in next door is perfectly nice, but don’t you want to sell your house and move to the suburbs anyway, voters?
I remain cautiously optimistic that the strategy will fail. The problem with the strategy is that the public has had a chance to get to know Obama and his family in the past four years. It’s a lot harder to to stimulate subconscious prejudice if the person has a strong counter-narrative about the situation. To make the whole situation weirder, the dog whistles being blown here only make sense to people whose bigotries are far closer to the surface, who wouldn’t vote for Obama anyway. I don’t think the average white swing voter with subconscious prejudices but who tries to be fair really is tapped into the elaborate right wing fear that Obama is a secret radical subversive who gained power in service of toppling America as an act of revenge. Words like “reparations” and “apology tour” probably fall on deaf ears outside of those circles.
They BOTH suck
October 24th, 2012
2:49 pm
Thulsa
If you know Obama and he has told you different, my bad.
Otherwise your statement was just plain idiotic
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
October 24th, 2012
2:50 pm
Well, I don’t know about you but I’m sick of seeing this Kenyan President apologize.
We need a manly man as President, somebody that will stand up and say “I’m going to molest your women and girls and send you off to die in a war.” Somebody that will say “It ain’t my fault you got raped and pregnant and we’re going to see to it that you have that kid. But don’t count on the taxpayers to support it, you sl-tty sl-t.”
That’s my opinion and it’s very true. Have a good p.m. everybody.
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:50 pm
doom
No, serviceman died in iraq because of their poor job of reconstruction and tainted food delivery, however haliburton (no bid) did pretty well…
bob
October 24th, 2012
2:50 pm
Those that deny attempts at voter fraud owe us an apology ! http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/jim-morans-son-brian-morans-nephew-caught-involved-in-voter-fraud/
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
2:51 pm
“I’m saying that a managed bankruptcy of a large employer without SOME sort of financing of the ongoing business concern is an oxymoron. You can’t HAVE a managed bankruptcy without some sort of secured credit line or even Debtor-In-Possession financing, and banks were having none of it at that time. Romney’s piece appeared in the NYT in November, 2008. Did you happen to try to get a loan then for anything?”
Didn’t Romney’s op-ed piece speak of the need for federal guarantees for loans (or didn’t he say that elsewhere)? Do you imagine that Romney doesn’t know much about managed bankruptcies? Would you think he probably knows more than you about them? Just feeling you out, here…
RB from Gwinnett
October 24th, 2012
2:51 pm
Ford was protecting their supplier base. Nothing more.
bookman parrot
October 24th, 2012
2:52 pm
Jay “falseness”
Whom is the “us” you speak of needing an apology.
Again you are playing semantics on what an apology is or is not.
Let’s just say that BHO tendencies of leaning more favorably to those of the Islamic world.
weetamoe
October 24th, 2012
2:52 pm
By using the imperial *we* O implied quite cleverly that he regrets what those terrible republicans did and he is ever so much nicer than they and so will everyone please tell the world that they like him better than Bush because they know he and his Chicago gang are not really part of the *we.*
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:53 pm
doom
Besides, it was cheney’s fault all along…
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
October 24th, 2012
2:53 pm
Sorry about the “FAct checkers” confusion — I was responding to someone else — next time, I’ll just cut and paste their comments, makes life more simpler.
=====================
Please identify the specific people and the specific jobs who Mitt specifically “outsourced” and then we will go from there. Otherwise all ya got is empty rhetoric. Then again what else is new?
Anyone hear the braying of a donkey?
NEW YORK — US and French workers blaming Bain Capital, the company founded by Mitt Romney, for stripping them of their jobs and outsourcing to China protested Monday outside Bain’s offices in New York.
About 60 people, led by a man in a monster suit depicting Bain Capital, accused the Republican presidential candidate’s former company of costing them their livelihoods.
And here’s another one:
After repeatedly touting his business experience as an asset towards reviving the U.S. economy, Mitt Romney has been put on the defensive by Bain Capital workers who are fighting back against the outsourcing of their jobs.
====================
Ben: Well, except for Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson, who bragged about it and then tried to say they were outed.
Oh Ben — ye of little intelligence…………i will light a candle for you. Maybe the fumes can loosen that big old rock twist yon ears…….
===================
Scout: So according to your above post how about not making up a lie about a movie in the meantime ?
Asked what caused the confusion over the attack, the president responded: “Well, we weren’t confused about the fact that four Americans had been killed, I wasn’t confused about the fact that we needed to ramp up diplomatic security around the world right after it happened, I wasn’t confused about the fact that we had to investigate exactly what happened so it gets fixed and I wasn’t confused about the fact that we were going to hunt down whoever did it and bring them to justice.”
Scout – notice the words “ we had to investigate exactly what happened .
bookman parrot
October 24th, 2012
2:54 pm
Jay,
You would have made a good politician! Able to speak in half-truths, straightout bull,
point fingers at everyone else, and look people in the eyes and not blink in the least
while pulling that crap.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:54 pm
RB — “Joe, you’re DENSE.”
No, RB, I’m not. I see things diffferently than you do, and I can be honest about them. Sorry if that upsets you.
“Obama said US auto production would have ceased. Obama said it Joe. OBAMA. Defend his if you can.”
I’m not *defending* any such thing, despite your desperate attempt to change the subject. We’re talking about that Romney wrote in 2008, how it was an absolutely stupid position to take and how he’s trying to run away from his own words and position now.
“And aquisition is always an option in bankruptcy, Joe.”
Not if you want to maintain the employment level, which is PRECISELY what the argument’s about between Obama and Romney. RB, you are utterly, utterly uninformed and unarmed in this discussion.
“It’s becoming pretty clear you’re just repeating stuff you heard somewhere and don’t really know how the process works.”
It’s becoming pretty clear to me that you don’t actually understand what the objective was in supporting those two car companies. Getting a heap of assets at fire-sale prices was NOT what bailing the automakers out was done for — supporting and sustaining a key American industry and its workers through a rough patch WAS.
The discussion between you and me mirrors the discussion between Romney and Obama. You can’t keep on topic, the workers’ fate doesn’t matter to you and you only see it as an opportunity to pick up some properties on the cheap — not as a chance to help support the national economy. It’s not an opportunity for the NATION as far as you’re concerned — it’s just an opportunity for PROFIT.
This is why the GOP must be defeated next month.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:56 pm
“You made the idiotic statement that the man was not a Christian.”
Um. No. I did not. I made a joke that he saved himself. Lighten up and get a sense of humor TBS. I’m mocking the cult of personality thing that libs seem to have regarding the O man.
OBIWAN
October 24th, 2012
2:57 pm
An “Apology Tour” does not mean Obama had to literally say the word “sorry” during those visits. But as my Guide Book on Obama’s 2009 Cairo speech details, on numerous stops Obama said things like America “has shown arrogance” (Strasbourg, France), “we have not been perfect” (interview with Al Arabiya), “we have at times been disengaged, and at times we sought to dictate our terms” (Port of Spain), we have been “dictating solutions” (London), “went off course” (National Archives), “made some mistakes,” (Langley, Virginia) and, finally, “the United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history” (Ankara, Turkey).
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:57 pm
Towncrier — “Didn’t Romney’s op-ed piece speak of the need for federal guarantees for loans (or didn’t he say that elsewhere)?”
It did. AFTER the companies emerged from bankruptcy, not before.
“Do you imagine that Romney doesn’t know much about managed bankruptcies? Would you think he probably knows more than you about them? Just feeling you out, here…”
I think he knew exactly what he was saying. I think he *wanted* them to go bankrupt so that they could — as RB has already indicated — be picked up at fire-sale prices — if not by him, then by friends, family members or business associates. I think Romney saw an opportunity to let those corporations fail so he could buy whatever was left cheaply.
No, I think Romney knew EXACTLY what he was saying and doing, and I think he was trying to snow everyone else.
weetamoe
October 24th, 2012
2:58 pm
That race card is just about worn down to a few shreds by now, yeah?
They BOTH suck
October 24th, 2012
2:58 pm
Thulsa
Ok. Now carry on with determining who is Christian or not
DannyX
October 24th, 2012
2:58 pm
Tagg Romney apologized to Obama!!!!!!!
What kind of twisted morals did Mitt Romney teach his son????? Apologies are a sign of weakness!!!!
I voted early for Romney but would like to know how I can change my vote!!!! Who do I talk to about that??????
OBAMA 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BoneHead
October 24th, 2012
3:00 pm
Momma said that if you argue with an idiot then you become one. BTW any loser that thinks Obozo even has a clue fits into the idiot category….
Peadawg
October 24th, 2012
3:01 pm
“Tagg Romney” – is a punk.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
3:01 pm
DDR:
“Scout – notice the words “ we had to investigate exactly what happened .”
Yes I noticed ……… so in the meantime don’t lie about a “movie” that you know had nothing to do with it.
alex
October 24th, 2012
3:02 pm
Enter your comments here
Thomas
October 24th, 2012
3:03 pm
Who is fact checking the fact checkers who do the initial fact checking?
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:03 pm
Hilarious!!!! The claim is that Mitt laid off and outsourced U.S. jobs. So then we have 60 protesters on October 15, 2012 protesting Bain capital. So how long ago did Mitt leave Bain capital??? 1999? But now they are protesting him 13 years later. Oh my God!!!!! Fun- Knee!!! Gawd the kooks are dumb.
All the lib kooks with the pumped up kicks you better run better run faster than Mitt’s gun…
JKL2
October 24th, 2012
3:03 pm
keep- When you have to LIE in your campaign for President to the United Nations, knowing that your claim is a wingnut lie, you are not presidential and do not deserve the job. America deserves better than the obama.
fixed your typo.
Still waiting on your indepth analysis of all of Romney’s foreign policy dicisions and how they have effect the world as we know it…
Jay
October 24th, 2012
3:04 pm
No, RB, I’m not ignoring it. If you lack the energy to look back at what I’ve already written on that topic, that’s your issue, not mine.
OBIWAN
October 24th, 2012
3:04 pm
On Monday night, President Obama even claimed that the Muslim world has a positive view of the U.S. as a result of his leadership.
Not true, according to a Pew poll, noted the Daily Caller. We had noted that as well in the Dissident Prof Guide Book on the Cairo Speech, “A New Beginning, Or a Revised Past? Positive views among the Muslim world slipped from 22 percent in 2008 to 19 percent last June, according to the (liberal) Pew poll. We thought students, who are taught this speech in college English classes as an example of rhetorical brilliance and unalloyed diplomatic victory, should know such facts and the context of other presidential speeches.
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
3:04 pm
“Scout – notice the words “ we had to investigate exactly what happened.”
No problem, there, DDR. The problem is with the assertions by Obama and people in his administration seemingly attributing or mainly attributing the attack to an angry response to a film. Here, in part, is what Susan Rice said 5 days after the tragedy:
“There was a hateful video that was disseminated on the Internet. It had nothing to do with the United States government, and it’s one that we find disgusting and reprehensible. It’s been offensive to many, many people around the world. That sparked violence in various parts of the world, including violence directed against Western facilities including our embassies and consulates.”
On CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Rice also said that, “We do not have information at present that leads us to conclude that this was premeditated or preplanned.”
Her last statement is, we now know, patently false. And, as has been pointed out by very knowledgeable people, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations does NOT appear on 5 different Sunday news shows on her own accord. I just don’t know how you explain such behavior. What in the world would motivate such apparently misleading statements? If indeed the Obama administration was attempting to mislead us, I am afraid that “playing politics” would be the best case scenario. I truly hope it is nothing worse.
skipper
October 24th, 2012
3:04 pm
The middle east, once the “Cradle of Civilization” has now become the harbinger of doom. They have fallen centuries behind. Folks over here talk about women gettin short-changed (and to a degree, it is still happening) but what about over there? Those folks did not even know what they had in the ground ’till the oil companies IN OTHER NATIONS showed them. Now, they have a backwards culture (women cannot drive in many places, etc.) We don’t owe then sh*t, an apology or anything else. The reason the terrorist groups are so entrenched there (no that is not biased….they sure as heck are not in New Zealand) is that those po-dunk countries over there (many-not all-see Turkey) are so messed up that folks will try anything.
Beefcake
October 24th, 2012
3:04 pm
11 more days ’til we vote the pathetic little whiner out of office & hopefully it’s not to late to reverse his experiment into government
take over of as much as the 99% butt lickers will engage.
weetamoe
October 24th, 2012
3:04 pm
Oh! Oh! Just read a few comments. Only a dog can hear a dog whistle. It is obvious then that only a racist can hear a racist dog whistle. Remember that my friends when you are moved to use the term or are accused of using said whistle.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:05 pm
TBS- not my job and I never claimed it to be my job to identify who is what. Perhaps you can show where I specifically claimed I can automatically identify who is a Christian, a Muslim, a Hindu, and so on.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
3:06 pm
DannyX — “Tagg Romney apologized to Obama!!!!!!!”
FWIW, I think that Tagg Romney’s apology speaks well of his character. He recognized that he said something unseemly, and he delivered a *personal* apology directly to the President.
I don’t know much else about Tagg Romney, but IMO, he absolutely did the right thing there, and it reflects well upon him and his parents.
Jay
October 24th, 2012
3:08 pm
On CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Rice also said that, “We do not have information at present that leads us to conclude that this was premeditated or preplanned.”
Her last statement is, we now know, patently false.
Actually, the opposite is true, Crier. The more we learn, the more likely it seems that the attack was NOT premeditated or planned, but rather occurred when those involved saw an opportunity and took it. As a senior intelligence official told the Washington Post, “The attackers were disorganized; some seemed more interested in looting. Some who claimed to have participated joined the attack as it began or after it was under way. There is no evidence of rehearsals, they never got into the safe room . . . never took any hostages, didn’t bring explosives to blow the safe room door, and didn’t use a car bomb to blow the gates,” all evidence that it wasn’t well-planned or coordinated beforehand.
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
3:08 pm
“No, I think Romney knew EXACTLY what he was saying and doing, and I think he was trying to snow everyone else.”
Thanks for your response. I am not sure I agree with your sentiments, but I can certainly empathize with a distrust of what politicians say.
And I will certainly stipulate that Romney has lied about things more than once (if only some Obama supporters would do the same about their man).
JKL2
October 24th, 2012
3:09 pm
Thulsa- But now they are protesting him 13 years later. Oh my God!!!!! Fun- Knee!!! Gawd the kooks are dumb.
Lance Armstrong says,”What?”
Just to be fair and secure the integrity of the sport, admitted doper Henri Pelissier needs to be stripped of his 1923 title. His cocktail of choice was nitroglycerin and horse tranquilizers.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:09 pm
Difference between a con and a kook. Both get laid off. The con looks for another job or starts his own small business. The kook goes on welfare and unemployment for 99 weeks. Then the kook protests against a guy like Romney who left the company 13 years earlier. Gawd that is funny.
theintelligentdesigner
October 24th, 2012
3:10 pm
Just a wee question about that dictator vs freedom “debate.” Didn’t some Rumsfield, Bush type guy support some dictator in some far off, unimportant Iraq sort of place? And din’t some other Bush/Cheeney type guy liberate those happy Iraqis and by doing so bring freedom forever? I missed that apology from that Bush guy. We will be greeted as liberators. Hell yeah, and it was an accident that Stonewall’s own troops shot him. Yeehaw. Those were the days, just kitcher gun an shoot a confederate (them confederates was libruls, wasn’t they?) Youse was designed to be intelligent, youse just dropped the danged ball. If only our babies could pray at they charter school like they do at home, there wunt be no prollem.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:10 pm
Folks if your job ever gets outsourced be sure to look up the CEO from 13 years earlier and go protest him.
RB from Gwinnett
October 24th, 2012
3:10 pm
Joe, so the workers in Detroit matter but the ones at all the dealers they put out of business don’t?
I’m sure you don’t reall give a crap about any of those dealers since they were all those small business owners you hate so much, but what do you suppose happene to all the mechanics who worked for them. Do they not matter to you?
By the way, in my opinion, GM and C are still going out of business unless they fix their core problems. All the government cash did is delay it for a while.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
3:12 pm
JKL — “cocktail of choice was nitroglycerin and horse tranquilizers.”
Holy crap.
alex
October 24th, 2012
3:12 pm
? for all, if one agrees on the auto industry bailout, does one agree to how it was done, i.E. the bond holders, stock holders (including preferred) lost their entire investment as it was entirely written off; I believe that Romney has said he would have supported GM but in a different way by maintaining their responsibility to (especially) the bond holders. Could this have been accomplished? I realize that the UAW wanted their money also, etc.. but was Romney’s plan viable, Please no lib/con garbage-”just the facts,mam”……… that is my comment debbie SIXTY people ,1 in a MONSTER suit, OH MY GOD, it can’t be a MONSTER suit, save the children…OH MY GOD, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
October 24th, 2012
3:12 pm
Paul: Why DebbieDoRight, I do believe you have a more interesting background than many here would have guessed! Not that some of us didn’t already think it was pretty interesting as it was -
Hiya Paul!! As for your comment ^^^ Only my hairdresser knows for sure….
TC: I agree that perhaps a very limited statement was in order. But that is not what we got. So, are you saying the Obama administration acted childishly?
I’m saying the right wing war machine was crying like hungry babies for answers. Obama’s State Department answered them with HALF of the story. The other half being that the attack was orchestrated and well thought out – however, they DIDN’T discount the fact that (and this came from the people inside the consulate); there was a mob outside decrying the film that lambasted Mohmmad.
=====================
Regarding the Murdoch quote – I am so angry by it!! Only an ignorant azz MAN, (that’s right I said it!!), would say something as insensitive, asinine, RIDICULOUS as that!
Maybe he should make an infomercial about it:
Hey Ladies!! You’ve been brutally raped by a gang of men, or even one man who cares, you’ve become pregnant with the ba$tar#ds child and are forced to carry it to term…….so NOW what are you going to do?!?
Bunch of pregnant women – “We’re Going To Disney World!!!”
getalife
October 24th, 2012
3:13 pm
It was the movie all along.
Time to apologize cons.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:13 pm
JKL2,
Hilarious is it not. I called her ass out on the claim that Romney specifically outsourced people’s jobs and to back up the claim with specific people and what does she come up with? People who got laid off from Bain 13 years after Romney left. You can’t make this stuff up.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
3:15 pm
“Actually, the opposite is true, Crier. The more we learn, the more likely it seems that the attack was NOT premeditated or planned, but rather occurred when those involved saw an opportunity and took it. As a senior intelligence official told the Washington Post, “The attackers were disorganized; some seemed more interested in looting. Some who claimed to have participated joined the attack as it began or after it was under way. There is no evidence of rehearsals, they never got into the safe room . . . never took any hostages, didn’t bring explosives to blow the safe room door, and didn’t use a car bomb to blow the gates,” all evidence that it wasn’t well-planned or coordinated beforehand.”
So why blame it on a movie ??????
getalife
October 24th, 2012
3:16 pm
“So why blame it on a movie ??????”
It was the movie con.
Apologize now.
Adam
October 24th, 2012
3:16 pm
Did anyone else notice the GALLUPing poll shows Romney with much less of a lead now and dropping?
Have a nice day!
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:16 pm
“By the way, in my opinion, GM and C are still going out of business unless they fix their core problems. All the government cash did is delay it for a while.”
Its only a matter of time before they come right back to the American taxpayer for more money. Crony capitalism and too big too fail at its worst. Mitt was right. Obama picks the losers as well as the winners.
getalife
October 24th, 2012
3:17 pm
Adam,
They will correct right before the election and that is when I will look at them.
Adam
October 24th, 2012
3:17 pm
Plus, would anyone like to please provide me with credible info indicating the movie had something to do with the terrorist attack? Something from a right wing or mainstream source only please.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:18 pm
“Did anyone else notice the GALLUPing poll shows Romney with much less of a lead now and dropping?”
Nice spin. So now they celebrate that O is still losing- just not losing by as much. Fun-knee.
Lord Help Us
October 24th, 2012
3:19 pm
Man, I wish Fox and it’s sheep had been this focused on the the BS coming out of the Bush admin while so many of our troops were getting killed…
‘We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators…’
Tealiban Party
October 24th, 2012
3:19 pm
Only in the con alternate-reality universe would the suggestion that we listen first before taking action be a bad thing.
I guess gathering and understanding facts prior to reacting is a threat to the wingnut way of life.
Adam
October 24th, 2012
3:20 pm
Thulsa: Romney had a 52 point lead. Then 51. Now 50. He USED to be gaining. Now he’s losing.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
3:20 pm
RB — “Joe, so the workers in Detroit matter but the ones at all the dealers they put out of business don’t?”
Did I think or say that? No.
“I’m sure you don’t reall give a crap about any of those dealers”
I’m sure you’re wrong.
“since they were all those small business owners you hate so much”
For the second time this afternoon, lies make baby jesus cry. No heaven cookie for you..
“but what do you suppose happene to all the mechanics who worked for them. Do they not matter to you?”
Did I think or say that? No.
“By the way, in my opinion, GM and C are still going out of business unless they fix their core problems. All the government cash did is delay it for a while.”
FWIW, Continental Airlines went through THREE bankruptcies since 1990 and none of them, singly or collectively, solved the airline’s problems — because it still wound up merging with United in order to save its tail. And you know what? A lot of employees lost their jobs in that merger.
http://www.khou.com/news/Continental-to-lay-off-hundreds-of-employees-in-Houston-115497389.html
If I wanted to be a Richard the way you’re being one this afternoon, I suppose I could speculate about how pleased *you* must be about all those laid-off CO and UA employees. After all, the bankruptcies made everything all better, right?
indigo
October 24th, 2012
3:21 pm
weetamoe
Incredible as it may sound,sometimes race really IS a factor in people’s political thinking.
getalife
October 24th, 2012
3:21 pm
Eyewitnesses that said the local militia told them it was the movie or the right focused on getting our President and not the local militia that did it.
I think I will go with the eyewitnesses on this one.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 24th, 2012
3:22 pm
Hey Ladies!! You’ve been brutally raped by a gang of men, or even one man who cares, you’ve become pregnant with the ba$tar#ds child and are forced to carry it to term…….so NOW what are you going to do?!?
Well, according to Todd Akin, y’all wimmen folk have some kind of vagina chaff that prevents pregnancy by rape.
Adam
October 24th, 2012
3:22 pm
By the way, in my opinion, GM and C are still going out of business unless they fix their core problems
Is this coming from one of the same people all upset about how they changed their business model radically and rapidly to support more hybrid and electric cars? You know, the same kind of stuff people are actually BUYING now?
Thomas
October 24th, 2012
3:23 pm
By the way, in my opinion, GM and C are still going out of business unless they fix their core problems. All the government cash did is delay it for a while
What is affectionately is coined the “Great Imodium Trade” it is simply a matter of time.
A leopard does not change its spots nor does an institution change its foolish business practices.
Did everyone catch the open marriage guy running AIG- can’t make the stuff up.
Adam
October 24th, 2012
3:23 pm
getalife: Please link me to something that credibly states the eyewitness reports.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
3:24 pm
K’Chak — “Well, according to Todd Akin, y’all wimmen folk have some kind of vagina chaff that prevents pregnancy by rape.”
I heard it was flares that draw the sperm off course.
TB
October 24th, 2012
3:24 pm
Jay Bookman is nothing more than a flaming, bed-wetting liberal who believes OBAMA is the Messiah like so many other morans in our society! When will you lemmings open your eyes & ears & see the truth about Obama & his pack of lies? He owns the media who sit up & beg for his table scraps like a whining dog. If you don’t believe it, ask yourselves how much he & his wife has spent on vacations & golf & shopping sprees on the the taxpayer’s money. Think about how much money is spent in their entourage & security alone. To all black Americans…check your history & you’ll see that the Democrats enslaved your ancestors & the republicans freed them.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 24th, 2012
3:25 pm
JHM: If I wanted to be a Richard the way you’re being one this afternoon, I suppose I could speculate about how pleased *you* must be about all those laid-off CO and UA employees
My suggestion is just go ahead and say If I wanted to be a Doom about it. Its completely acceptable equivalent according to 5 major reference sources.
You might have Pompous Assenisia if your name is a Richard equilvent.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
3:25 pm
Adam,
Spin. Spin. Spin. Don’t worry though. I’m pulling for your guy. I hope we get another 4 years of his incompetence so that folks will learn the hard way once and for all that lib policies do not work. I figure at that point we will be well over 20 trillion in debt, incomes will be eroded another 8-10% in purchasing power losses due to all the money printing which is a hidden tax on poor or middle class folks, and economic growth will still be puttering along at 1% or so. I figure eventually even the dumbest of the libs will catch on. One can hope anyway.
JKL2
October 24th, 2012
3:25 pm
getalife- It was the movie con. Apologize now.
These are not the droids you are looking for. obama can’t lie because he is a black man. Everyone a man should be judged by the color of his skin rather than the content of his character.
Adam
October 24th, 2012
3:26 pm
TB: To all black Americans…check your history & you’ll see that the Democrats enslaved your ancestors & the republicans freed them.
You are an idiot.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2012
3:26 pm
I think that Tagg Romney’s apology speaks well of his character. He recognized that he said something unseemly, and he delivered a *personal* apology directly to the President.
I don’t know much else about Tagg Romney, but IMO, he absolutely did the right thing there, and it reflects well upon him and his parents.
agreed. I actually heard the stupid radio host’s setup and while I think Tagg’s remarks were out of line, they weren’t beyond the pale–he was talking about the way he felt when someone calls his dad a liar (which, of course, Obama didn’t literally do–that’s just the radio host goading someone into saying something newsworthy).
Anyway, the guy owned up to what he’d done, and he deserves credit for it.
Mark in-midtown
October 24th, 2012
3:26 pm
Romney used “apology tour” as a metaphor and explained why he used such term to describe Obama’s actions. Also, an apology need not mean one says they are sorry, only that one expresses some regret for a past action. By such definition, it’s clear that Obama was at a minimum implying that there were plenty of past actions engaged in by the United States that are regrettable and he made it a point to point these out on his visits. Using the term “apology tour” as a metaphor is not something for so-called fact-checkers to say is true or not true. It’s up to individuals to decide for themselves whether they think such metaphor applies or doesn’t apply to the actions Obama engaged in and whether it was fair or not fair to use such metaphor.
Adam
October 24th, 2012
3:28 pm
Thulsa: Ha! You say that as though neo-conservatism hasn’t been proven to be a failure. You know, the tax cutting, big government spending, big government for parts we like and cuts for parts we don’t, ACTUAL realities of neocon governance.
alex
October 24th, 2012
3:28 pm
many those chevy VOLTS are movin’off the lots………
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
3:28 pm
I’ll answer it for you.
“So why blame it on a movie” ?
1) It was an anniversay of 9/11 so they should have been on FULL ALERT.
2) They knew the situation was deteriorating.
3) They should have anticipated the attack and failed to do so.
4) The ambassador had asked for additional security and didn’t get it.
5) Four Americans were murdered by terrorists.
6) This looks real bad so close to the election.
7) Let’s blame it on a “movie” by a mob we couldn’t have anticipated.
WHAT DID HE KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT ?
Doggone/GA
October 24th, 2012
3:28 pm
“Romney used “apology tour” as a metaphor and explained why he used such term to describe Obama’s actions”
Your apology for Romney’s words is duly noted