Those who push “apology tour” owe us an apology
In the debate Monday night, Mitt Romney once again resorted to his claim that President Obama had conducted an overseas “apology tour,” in which he allegedly traveled “to various nations in the Middle East and criticizing America.” As Obama quickly noted, that claim has been debunked as a fabrication by every fact-check organization that has looked at it.
However, that clearly hasn’t dissuaded the Romney camp from continuing to use the claim. In fact, Jennifer Rubin, a conservative columnist for the Washington Post known for her very tight ties to the Romney campaign, devoted her column Tuesday to explaining why in fact the “apology tour” claim is accurate.
As she writes:
“I am hardly the first to compile lists of apologetic utterances from Obama. These include an apology in front of the Turkish Parliament: ‘Another issue that confronts all democracies as they move to the future is how we deal with the past. The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history.’”
That’s an “apology”? I do not see an apology, or anything resembling an apology. Just to confirm the fact, here’s the quotation with a little more context:
“The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history. Facing the Washington Monument that I spoke of is a memorial of Abraham Lincoln, the man who freed those who were enslaved even after Washington led our Revolution. Our country still struggles with the legacies of slavery and segregation, the past treatment of Native Americans.”
Again, no apology, just a simple, humble acknowledgement of historical fact.
But why, you may ask, was Obama even raising those issues before a foreign parliament? In that 2009 speech, the president went on to urge Turkey, a longtime U.S. ally, to try to resolve its longstanding differences with neighboring Armenia. Those differences have at their foundation the mass genocide at Turkish hands of as many as 1.5 million ethnic Armenians beginning in 1915.
As Obama told the Turkish legislators, in words that were controversial in Turkey at the time:
“Each country must work through its past. And reckoning with the past can help us seize a better future. I know there’s strong views in this chamber about the terrible events of 1915. And while there’s been a good deal of commentary about my views, it’s really about how the Turkish and Armenian people deal with the past. And the best way forward for the Turkish and Armenian people is a process that works through the past in a way that is honest, open and constructive.”
I suppose that Obama could have tried a different approach. Instead of acknowledging that America too has made mistakes, Obama could have gone the high and mighty route, broaching the delicate issue of Armenia by telling Turkish leaders that we in the United States have demonstrated ourselves at all times to be paragons of perfection, and that they ought to at least try to follow our pristine example.
Somehow, I doubt that would go over very well.
The Turkish example is interesting for another reason. Echoing the Romney/Rubin theory that it is wrong to ever admit a national mistake, the Turks have made it a major crime under Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code to even mention the Armenian genocide in public, with jail terms of as long as three years. That, I suppose, takes care of the apology tour issue, although it is not a productive way for a democracy to conduct its affairs.
Another example of a supposed apology cited by Rubin is even more telling. In 2009, in a televised speech to the American people, Obama announced that, among other steps, he had signed an executive order ending the use of “enhanced interrogation”, more plainly known as torture. As Rubin quotes him:
“Unfortunately, faced with an uncertain threat, our government made a series of hasty decisions. … I also believe that all too often our government made decisions based on fear rather than foresight; that all too often our government trimmed facts and evidence to fit ideological predispositions. Instead of strategically applying our power and our principles, too often we set those principles aside as luxuries that we could no longer afford. And during this season of fear, too many of us — Democrats and Republicans, politicians, journalists, and citizens — fell silent. In other words, we went off course.”
With those words, Obama was attempting to express his disagreement with policies that had been adopted by the Bush administration. But to Rubin, it is something much more sinister.
“Liberals don’t even see that Obama’s excoriating his predecessor is apologizing for this nation, but of course it is. George W. Bush wasn’t acting as a private citizen, and whatever he actions he took were done in the name of the United States.”
Criticizing decisions made by George Bush equates to apologizing for this nation? By trotting out such lame arguments, Rubin succeeds only in confirming just how irresponsible the “apology tour” claim really is.
– Jay Bookman
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488 comments Add your comment
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:10 pm
“As in, voters honestly aren’t buying that line of baloney?”
D
E
N
I
A
L
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2012
2:10 pm
Seriously, read up on it. There was apparently a LOT of bad blood between Presidents and VPs in those early days.
and there would be again if the EV were to end in a tie. But it wouldn’t be THAT big a deal, were it to happen; nothing that would shake our Republic to its foundation.
Basically, Biden would have a bully pulpit and a tiebreaking vote, but nothing more than that.
Romney would still be President and get to do all the usual Presidentin’.
Randy Ayn
October 24th, 2012
2:10 pm
At least the GOP can saddle up Ann Coulter and ride out of town.
Paul
October 24th, 2012
2:10 pm
0311
“ust about everytime there is a terrorist attack somewhere (except Benghazi because Jay said it wasn’t a terrorist attack) groups come forward to claim responsibility. You know that.”
Of course I do, as I already posted that earlier today.
“This should also have been released by the White House and reported in the news for the public to make their own determination as opposed to some lie from the Administration involving a movie.”
Now you’re stating that whenever a jihadist group makes a claim that says they were involved in anything unfortunate affecting Americans that we have a duty to give air time to all those claims? That we have to give recognition and publicity to everything? Is that how you did things in the Secret Service? There was a crime, you guys conducted a daily press brief and went over every single tip that came in?
Puh-leeze
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
October 24th, 2012
2:11 pm
OMG I’ve heard/read everything now!!
Your Fact Checkers Are WRONG!!!
What next folks? How far will your Obama mania take you? How about this:
Obama was NOT born in America!
Oh wait…………….
========================
” I can’t think about that right now. If I do, I’ll go crazy. I’ll think about that tomorrow. ” Scarlett O’Hara as told to Fact checkers anonymous.
Williebkind
October 24th, 2012
2:11 pm
He did blame America in every speech. Its absurb to think its ok because in a later statement the president pointed a finger at them.
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:12 pm
“At least the GOP can saddle up Ann Coulter and ride out of town.”
We sure as heck ain’t gonna saddle up Rachel Maddow
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:12 pm
Paul:
A “non-serious” response (according to your opinion vs. someone else’s) versus a “personal attack” are two different things.
bethey
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
As I have said previously, I am so glad to know that with a president Romney we Americans would be afforded immediate and complete explanations, with all relevant details provided at the very split second that any event occured overseas, since apparently only Republican Presidents have the ability to just “know the whole truth” the very moment something happens. Yeah, right! Despite what all the cons are trying to claim, I see no evidence of coverup or any intentions to mislead in the Libyan situation. A thorough and complete investigation takes time and information continues to be revealed little by little. In our modern society there are so many sources of information and reports, each being given the author’s touch, that it is no wonder one can believe they have found evidence of mistruths, just depending on the source consulted.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
DANNY,
I’m familiar with the chart i sent you…take another look (top chart)..the confidence, favorability and approval of foreign policy with the countries we are in conflict with are trending deplorably…simply by Bush leaving office the trend was up as you suggests (not big accomplishment…more just happy to be rid of Bush) however, compared to where BO first was polled versus where he is now..not good…the drone stikes aren’t exacly popular either…what an about face BO did on this item and the message he is sending by assasination and innocents killed….
H. E. Pennypacker
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
Stevie Ray,
I don’t recall saying a thing about the off-shoring claim, nor would I unless I personally looked into and felt I saw evidence.
I spoke up on the auto industry rewrite as I spent 10 years in investment banking and feel I have a good sense for BS when I read it. The private sector markets were frozen, people were not buying cars, auto financing fell to an all time low, with no liquidity, GM and Chrysler most certainly would have stopped making cars. Debter in Possession (DIP) financing was gone, so where were they going to get cash to meet payroll, pay their vendors and meet pension obligations? Without cash, companies go into bankruptcy and without DIP financing they then liquidate.
Williebkind
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
Fact check — DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman where are the jobs? How much tax do you pay?
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
Debbi, the fact checkers are going to the polls in 14 days.
Maybe you best start drinking now.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
RB — “Joe, are you saying you think managed bankruptcy means GM, Chrysler, and Ford all stop making cars?”
I’m saying that a managed bankruptcy of a large employer without SOME sort of financing of the ongoing business concern is an oxymoron. You can’t HAVE a managed bankruptcy without some sort of secured credit line or even Debtor-In-Possession financing, and banks were having none of it at that time. Romney’s piece appeared in the NYT in November, 2008. Did you happen to try to get a loan then for anything? If so, what kind of luck did you have?
“Even you aren’t that stupid. I think….”
I’m pretty sure you’re clueless enough to think that the magic words MANAGED BANKRUPTCY coming from Romney’s pen would have automatically loosened up the loan officers at all the major US lending and investment banks what, two MONTHS after the market crash of 2008?
I think there’s someone stupid in this discussion, but it’s not me and it’s not Obama.
I also think there’s someone dishonest in all this, and his name’s Romney.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:14 pm
Paul:
A counterfeit currency or U.S. Treasury check forgery case vs. an American Ambassador and three other Americans being murdered are two different things.
The White House for reasons known only to them wanted to blame the attack on a movie. They made that up. Shame on them.
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
2:15 pm
“If an Islamic terrorist group //claims// something happened, then by golly, that’s the honest truth!!!”
I would contend such claims are statistically true enough to 1) not dismiss them out of hand and 2) as a result, NOT strive to attribute the attack on the consulate to something else (instead of saying something like “it may have been a terrorist attack or something else – like an angry response to the film – but we are still investigating”).
Just look at a sampling of the claims advanced by the Obama administration in the days and weeks following the attack:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/10/world/libya-attack-statements/index.html
Then, on the 20th, we have Carney saying it is “…self-evident that what happened in Benghazi was a terrorist attack.” Recommendation to Carney: look up the meaning of “self-evident”, please.
Doggone/GA
October 24th, 2012
2:15 pm
“The right owes our country an apology for behaving like spoiled rotten brats”
I refer you to what I posted earlier about how to tell when a child is maturing into an adult
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:16 pm
“We sure as heck ain’t gonna saddle up Rachel Maddow”
The corollary to that?
Con women = hot
Lib women + not so hot
Libs having meltdowns over fact checkers? Drink…
Rightwing Troll
October 24th, 2012
2:16 pm
“OCTOBER SURPRISE !
AMERICANS DIED !
OBAMA LIED !”
That’s better than:
BUSH LIED!
AMERICANS DIED!
Study that, see if you can note the difference… since it’s partly your responsibility as well…
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:16 pm
Where the conned wingers see an apology, I see reality; as in in we are all human but they have this crazy notion of exceptionalism where the USA is nothing short of super human. Don’t think so…
Lord Help Us
October 24th, 2012
2:16 pm
Apparently, the media was blocked from accessing the facebook page of the terrorist organization that claimed responsibility for the attack on Benghazi…
It was the White House’s job to inform the media to look at a facebook page and, by not doing so, are involved in a coverup…
Is this really all you have?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:16 pm
B. Shockley — “Denying the apology tour is reamarkably like denying sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky.”
Lies make baby jesus cry, Benny. No cookie in heaven for you.
RB from Gwinnett
October 24th, 2012
2:17 pm
Jay, will you share your opinion of why they pushed the video BS on us for 2 weeks?
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:18 pm
If GM and Chrysler were liquidated, the other automakers would have picked up the slack, selling more cars, manufacturing more cars, hiring more cars, etc.
And most “foreign” cars are manufactured right here in the USA, albeit by non-union labor which the current regime despises.
Economics is for Chess players, and liberals are more like checkers people. Or, stated another way, economics is for Jeopardy people, and libs are more like Wheel of Fortune people.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:18 pm
“I refer you to what I posted earlier about how to tell when a child is maturing into an adult”
Obama has a video about a child maturing into an adult. Its about a baby named Julia who goes from childhood to being an old lady- being helped all the way by the libs big nanny state. They love themselves some nanny state they do.
getalife
October 24th, 2012
2:19 pm
The fraud they call mitt will gone soon and Americans will marginalize the kooks they call themselves conservatives.
We will move forward into the 21st century dragging along these cons like dead weight.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
October 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
I would contend such claims are statistically true enough to 1) not dismiss them out of hand and 2) as a result, NOT strive to attribute the attack on the consulate to something else
dude, how about 3?
3) WAITING until you can get the intelligence report from people on the ground before saying/admitting/affirming anything!!
Adults, real adults, know how to WAIT for things — only babies, children, and puppies want instant gratification.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
Towncrier @ 2:15
Thank you for that reasoned response.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks you better run better run, faster than Mitt’s gun…
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
“People, REAL PEOPLE, who’ve been in any type of intelligence, (whether as analysts at the Crystal Palace, worked as a Pentagon Aide to the Chief Of Staff, etc.), NEVER talk about it. ”
Well, except for Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson, who bragged about it and then tried to say they were outed.
Debbi having a really bad day……
Paul
October 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
0311
So it’s only in major cases that intelligence agencies should be required to reveal, thru the White House to the press, every single claim and tip that comes in so Americans can decide for themselves what to believe?
Amazing how you guys who have such antipathy towards the president will take, as your first option, trust in a jihadist group over your own government.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
3) “WAITING until you can get the intelligence report from people on the ground before saying/admitting/affirming anything!!”
So according to your above post how about not making up a lie about a movie in the meantime ?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 24th, 2012
2:21 pm
PENNYPACKER
I went back and re-read your post and see that you were supporting the bailouts…my bad. Unfortunately I’ve also got experience dealing with (mostly Delaware…should have been a bankruptcy lawyer with the skills to get all the meat off the carcus) bankruptcies…I don’t disagree with helping the auto industry but to bail out the banks et al without changing the foundational underpinings to make sure it never happens again (breaking up big banks and re-instituting aspects of Glass-Stegal) will prove to be a precedent that I’m worried will come back to haunt us…another example of why DC fails us..
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
October 24th, 2012
2:21 pm
If GM and Chrysler were liquidated, the other automakers would have picked up the slack, selling more cars, manufacturing more cars, hiring more cars, etc.
He knows this FOR A FACT because he sits on the boards of both GM and Chrysler…….
Doggone/GA
October 24th, 2012
2:22 pm
“I am sorry for bashing Obama over the embassy attack”
One small correction: it wasn’t an embassy. It was a consulate. The embassy is in Tripoli
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:22 pm
“So it’s only in major cases that intelligence agencies should be required to reveal, thru the White House to the press, every single claim and tip that comes in so Americans can decide for themselves what to believe?”
It’s up to the White House to decide what to release and when …….. but in the meantime don’t release a lie for political expediency.
Jay
October 24th, 2012
2:22 pm
And Ben, just for kicks I decided to pick just one of the very truncated quotes that you cite as evidence of an Obama apology, and look into it deeper. Totally randomly, I selected the America “has shown arrogance” (Strasbourg, France) quote.
The Strasbourg speech was a NATO meeting. Here’s what Obama said:
“So we must be honest with ourselves. In recent years we’ve allowed our Alliance to drift. I know that there have been honest disagreements over policy, but we also know that there’s something more that has crept into our relationship. In America, there’s a failure to appreciate Europe’s leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive. But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what’s bad.”
Overall, I think that’s a pretty convincing defense of this country before European allies that too often take us for granted. But more specifically, what did Obama mean when he said that there have been “times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive”?
Well, off the top of my head I can think of Donald Rumsfeld’s dismissive, derisive and arrogant attitude toward long-time NATO allies who had balked — wisely it turned out — at participating in our invasion of Iraq. “Germany has been a problem, and France has been a problem,” Rumsfeld said back in 2003.
“You’re thinking of Europe as Germany and France. I don’t,” he told reporters. “I think that’s old Europe,” with “new Europe” being the smaller, less independent countries formerly in the Iron Curtain that were more supportive of the invasion. It was foolish and yes, arrogant, of Rumsfeld to say that kind of thing publicly, and it outraged European leaders.
So yes, Obama was entirely correct in terms of accuracy, and entirely correct as well in terms of national security strategy to tell our allies that American attitudes had changed with new leadership. That is not an “apology tour.” That is wise leadership.
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:22 pm
“only babies, children, and puppies want instant gratification.”
well, and all the little libs who want their food stamps, welfare checks, and free cell phones, and threaten to riot if they don’t get them….
Debbi having a really, REALLY bad day……….
Paul
October 24th, 2012
2:23 pm
Crystal Palace
Why DebbieDoRight, I do believe you have a more interesting background than many here would have guessed!
Not that some of us didn’t already think it was pretty interesting as it was -
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
2:23 pm
“JohnnyReb, if Mitt didn’t think the Benghazi issue was worth a single mention — not one — in a 90-minute debate supposedly devoted exclusively to foreign policy, don’t you think there’s a reason for that? As in, voters honestly aren’t buying that line of baloney?”
I think your logic is strained, Jay. I saw Richard Engel on the Tonight Show last night and he expressed astonishment that neither candidate made little or no mention of the wars given their cost, loss of life, rapid decline in morale and the like. What is the reason for that – voters not “buying that line of baloney”? Or is there another plausible explanation? Might there also be one for Romney not mentioning Benghazi as well (or did you peer into your crystal ball to learn the “truth”)?
Answer man.
October 24th, 2012
2:23 pm
This is exactly the kind of crap I’ve come to expect from the GOP. Every time they open their mouths they either say something stupid, offensive or untrue. Now another republican, Richard Mourdock,is having to defend his rape statements. Will it ever end? No, not if morons keep putting other morons in office.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:23 pm
“Jay, will you share your opinion of why they pushed the video BS on us for 2 weeks?”
Sorry RB but that wouldn’t fit the kook left narrative. No way of hiding behind the fact that the O administration was incompetent on Bengazhi gate and LIED to the American people. Obama lied. An Ambassador died.
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:23 pm
ben
It would be more accurate to describe the cons as dinosaur people, you know how noah got them on the ark; the libs are the science and technology people, you know using science and reason to advance. Too bad you’re on the wrong boat…
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:24 pm
“He knows this FOR A FACT because he sits on the boards of both GM and Chrysler……. ”
No, I know this for a fact because in a free market, competitors would love to feed that unexpected demand.
Debbi having a really, really, REALLY bad day….
H. E. Pennypacker
October 24th, 2012
2:24 pm
Ben,
Valerie Plame never said a word, it was her husband how simply wrote what turned out to be a turn opinion that there were no credible claims to purchases of yellowcake in Africa. Since Dick Cheney did not like to have sand thrown into the gears of his emerging war machine, he discredited Joe by outing his wife as a CIA agent.
Get your facts straight, Mr. 3 dimensional chess player….
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 24th, 2012
2:25 pm
JAY
Are you really suggesting that Romney’s lack of attacking BO in debate relative to Benghazi suggests this is no longer an issue will his campaign? I hope I’m mis reading your last post..
Shallow, ridiculous and desparate assumption…if I’m understanding you correctly…I think Romney’s objective was just not to make material gaffe..plus I’m sure his handlers were telling him that confrontation is not his friend…he was successful in rattling BO..
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:25 pm
“the libs are the science and technology people, you know using science and reason to advance.”
Of course they are. Which is why they believe that computer models with many variables can accurately predict weather 50 years out when we can’t predict it 1 month out today- cause dey science folk and all.
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:25 pm
Mick,
Obama claims to be a Christian and claims to have accepted Jesus Christ as his savior.
Your thoughts on that?
RB from Gwinnett
October 24th, 2012
2:26 pm
Joe, you’re playing armchair QB 4 years later as if you’re an expert on whether or not anybody would have done a deal with GM. I’m sure some PE firms may have been interested in picking up GM at a fire sale given the right deal.
And why would Ford have stopped making cars?
Any idea what “managed” means?
Answer man.
October 24th, 2012
2:26 pm
Uh, Thulsa, do you have any actual evidence to put forth that might lend a shred of credance to your silly rant?
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:26 pm
Ben Shockley,
I’m calling BS on Obama accepting Christ as his savior. We all know Obama already accepted himself as his own savior.
Please allow me to introduce myself
October 24th, 2012
2:27 pm
Romney used the word peace or peaceful 10 times in the debate. Obama didn’t use it at all. Don’t say I didn’t warn you about the one who will talk of peace.
Jm
October 24th, 2012
2:27 pm
Bookman’s in a hole and still digging
That stuff up above, more apology
Very funny
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:27 pm
B. Shockley — “If GM and Chrysler were liquidated, the other automakers would have picked up the slack, selling more cars, manufacturing more cars, hiring more cars, etc.”
Clearly not, since GM. Chrysler *and* Ford all cut the number of their dealerships dramatically in 2009 and 2010. In fact, Ford was still cutting dealerships in 2011. If, as you say, other manufacturers would have picked up the slack (and I don’t know how much buyer slack you think there actually was to pick up in 2008 – 2010), then Ford would likely have benefited from the cutbacks their domestic competitors were experiencing.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/02/ford-continues-to-terminate-lincoln-dealerships.html
“And most “foreign” cars are manufactured right here in the USA, albeit by non-union labor which the current regime despises.”
I haven’t heard the President express any negative feelings about non-union American workers. If you have, then please, share a link that details it.
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
2:27 pm
“dude, how about 3?
3) WAITING until you can get the intelligence report from people on the ground before saying/admitting/affirming anything!!
Adults, real adults, know how to WAIT for things — only babies, children, and puppies want instant gratification.”
I agree that perhaps a very limited statement was in order. But that is not what we got. So, are you saying the Obama administration acted childishly?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:27 pm
Thulsa @ 2:23
Careful ………. you’ll get them all worked up !
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:28 pm
Answer man,
Perhaps if you could have specified what rant you refer to you woulda gotten your answer. But ya didn’t. Dismissed.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 24th, 2012
2:28 pm
ANSWERAN
Spot on about that dope and his God intentions crap..
You are shallow to paint all of the GOP as you do….in doing so, you are basically buying into the same lunatic fringe game as the lunatic fringe right..
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:28 pm
Jay, we get the fact that you libs deny the apology tour. I mean, all up to the 2008 election that was the mantra, undoing the supposed damage done by Bush to our reputation around the world.
but now Romney is getting traction and you have to deny that black is black and white is white, on this topic and many others.
we completely understand.
Answer man.
October 24th, 2012
2:28 pm
His religion, my religion, their religion, any religion…who gives a crap about any of that? I sure as hell don’t. I’d rather not even know. It’s none of my damn business. It’s not your business either.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:28 pm
Jm:
The “real” hole he can’t get out of is that “Benghazi was not a terrorist attack”.
getalife
October 24th, 2012
2:28 pm
mitt’s rape problem with women voters will make him lose.
The numbers will correct towards our President right before the election.
I see Russia broaden their laws on treason and I think we need to do that too.
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:29 pm
“I’m calling BS on Obama accepting Christ as his savior. We all know Obama already accepted himself as his own savior.”
You and I know that, but it’s hysterical to see the libs squirm.
Answer man.
October 24th, 2012
2:29 pm
Not all GOP, just the ones I know and see on TV.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:29 pm
“Careful ………. you’ll get them all worked up !”
Gallup poll already did that for me. I’m just doing mop up operations.
Regnad Kcin
October 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
If Romney could not make the statements that Obama made about America’s imperfections, he’s not much of a man.
If you cannot admit your faults, I pity you.
Don't Tread
October 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
“First [Romney] should apologize to all the people’s jobs he “outsourced” to China and India so that he could wear $5K shoes.”
Perhaps Clinton should apologize for pushing to make China a “most favored trade nation” to begin with. We might actually have a few more jobs here instead of in China.
Selective amnesia.
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
ben
Why should I doubt it? It matters none to me…
They BOTH suck
October 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
WOW
Thulsa now knows who is a Christian and who isn’t?
Damn your God would be proud of you today……
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
PLEASEALLOWMETOINTRODUCE,
Have you read The Master and Margarita? It’s hilarious and quite controversial Russian novel that is the premises of that song…Mihkail Bulgocov…
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
B. Shockley — “No, I know this for a fact because in a free market, competitors would love to feed that unexpected demand.”
What was the demand trend for personal/family automobiles between say, July 2008 and July 2010? Up, down or sideways?
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
“Clearly not, since GM. Chrysler *and* Ford all cut the number of their dealerships dramatically in 2009 and 2010.”
None of their major competitors went backrupt and were liquidated in 2009 and 2010.
You’re dismissed for the day……………..
Thomas
October 24th, 2012
2:31 pm
And Ben, just for kicks I decided to pick just one of the very truncated quotes that you cite as evidence of an Obama apology, and look into it deeper. Totally randomly, I selected the America “has shown arrogance” (Strasbourg, France) quote
A good exercise for you would be to do the same on an Obama crazy arse attack
Towncrier
October 24th, 2012
2:31 pm
“I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s actually some old stalker who hides out in the bushes watching little old men get undressed.”
Jay…I think this statement – judging from you past comments – is beyond the pale of acceptable posts here. Geez…DDR. Get a grip.
gasux
October 24th, 2012
2:31 pm
Unfortunately, your wasting your breath by trying to present facts or reason with people who have closed minds—they live under the premise that if you tell a lie enough times, it will be true. This behavior has served them well since the days of Lee Atwater. Ignorance is bliss.
Doggone/GA
October 24th, 2012
2:32 pm
“Perhaps Clinton should apologize for pushing to make China a “most favored trade nation” to begin with”
That declaration had no practical outcomes. It was simply formalization of what was already an ongoing relationship.
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:32 pm
I don’t beleieve the propaganda that romney is advancing, he peaked about two weeks too soon…
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:32 pm
“What was the demand trend for personal/family automobiles between say, July 2008 and July 2010? Up, down or sideways?”
Doesn’t matter…if GM and Chrysler were liquidated, demand would have went up for those remaining.
I already dismissed you for the day
Jhunt163
October 24th, 2012
2:33 pm
Plus DIP financing was recommended with Government guarantees. I am sure someone would have picked that up. There is a whole industry buying failed banks with guarantees from the FDIC.
Regnad Kcin
October 24th, 2012
2:33 pm
This is great news! If I need to know who’s a “real” jew, or a “real” christian, I can just come to Jay’s blog!
Hey, any of you cons do any other religions? Can you tell say, a “real” Baha’i, or a “real” Zoroastrian? Never know when that might come in handy…
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:33 pm
RB — “Joe, you’re playing armchair QB 4 years later as if you’re an expert on whether or not anybody would have done a deal with GM. I’m sure some PE firms may have been interested in picking up GM at a fire sale given the right deal.”
Who said anything about acquisition? Not me.
“And why would Ford have stopped making cars?”
Who said they would have? YOU. Reread your own post.
“Any idea what “managed” means?”
A managed bankruptcy *doesn’t* mean merger or outright acquisition, as you seem to think it does. We *were* talking about financing, and the next thing I know, you’re talking about someone “picking up GM at a fire sale.” Focus, RB, focus.
Jay
October 24th, 2012
2:34 pm
““No, I know this for a fact because in a free market, competitors would love to feed that unexpected demand.”
So if Ford “would love to feed that unexpected demand,” why did Ford lobby strongly in FAVOR of the bailout of their competitors, and why do they continue to defend the bailout as necessary for their own competitive health as well.
For example:
“If GM and Chrysler would’ve gone into free-fall they could’ve taken the entire supply base into free-fall also, and taken the U.S. from a recession into a depression,” (Ford CEO Alan) Mulally says in the accompanying video, taped Friday at Ford’s world headquarters in Dearborn, MI. “That’s why we testified on behalf of our competitors even though we clearly did not need precious taxpayer money.”
Referring to his testimony before the Senate Banking Committee on Nov. 4, 2008, “today looking back I think we’d absolutely make the same decision,” Mulally says.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/bailouts-gm-chrysler-were-good-ford-too-alan-113859133.html
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2012
2:34 pm
Ben Shockley,
Libs do love dey cult of personality they do. I especially like that t-shirt where O is silhouetted in yellow, green, red. Damn if he didn’t look like God on Earth. Hell it almost had me wanting to sprint to the booth and pull the lever for D. With a cool looking pic like that how could the man be wrong? It was even better than the romanticized Che Guevarra t-shirt with the beret that kooks still wear 40-50 years later.
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:34 pm
Speaking of lost American jobs, has Obama apologized for allowing illegals to continue flooding here, and instructing the justice department not to prosecute them?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 24th, 2012
2:34 pm
DONTTREAD
Whomever suggests that Romney offshored any jobs needs to pony up evidence cuz it is BS…Obama earned many, many pinocchios for incinuating this…..
H. E. Pennypacker
October 24th, 2012
2:34 pm
RB,
No one is talking about Ford, they had the cash to weather the storm. Chrysler was already owned by a private equity firm at that time Cerberus Equity who had Robert Nardelli running his second company into the ground. When the government put in the money to keep them afloat, Cerberus essentially walked away with nothing. GM was publicly traded, but could not meet its current obligations and its stock was trading in the drill bit range.
Last time, with no liquidity, there is nothing to manage other than liquidation.
getalife
October 24th, 2012
2:35 pm
cnn is looping the rape comment.
It has legs because mitt still endorsed him and refused to pull the ad.
Women will run away from the gop by the millions.
Mick
October 24th, 2012
2:35 pm
ben
I guess you’ll be first in line when china manufactures a $5000 auto built on a dollar a day labor cause that’s what you want right here – pottersville USA…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 24th, 2012
2:35 pm
Time to lighten up a little:
“No English dictionary has been able to adequately explain the difference
between the words COMPLETE and FINISHED.
However, in a recent linguistic conference held in London, England and attended
by some of the best linguists in the world:
Samsundar Balgobin, a Guyanese, was the clear winner…
His final challenge was this:
“Some say there is no difference between the meaning of the words “COMPLETE” and “FINISHED”.
Please explain the difference between COMPLETE and FINISHED
in a way that is easy to understand.”
Here is his astute answer:
“When you marry the right woman, you are COMPLETE; but, when you
marry the wrong woman, you are FINISHED.
And when the right one catches you with the wrong one,
you are ‘COMPLETELY FINISHED’!”
His answer was received with a standing ovation lasting over 5 minutes and it
entitled him to receive an invitation to dine with Queen, who decided to call him after the contest.”
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:36 pm
LIB LOGIC 101
Allowing US jobs to go offshore (perfectly legal in a free society) = BAD
Allowig foreigners to come here (illegally) and take jobs here = GOOD
Libs are so funny……..
getalife
October 24th, 2012
2:36 pm
The auto bailout won Ohio and other States for our President.
Doggone/GA
October 24th, 2012
2:36 pm
“Doesn’t matter…if GM and Chrysler were liquidated, demand would have went up for those remaining”
It might have…but what makes you think Ford had the money around to take over the liquidated assets and even begin to fulfill that demand? If there was no private money to borrow to keep GM and Chevy afloat, it’s not likely there would be any for Ford to borrow either.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:37 pm
B. Shockley — “None of their major competitors went backrupt and were liquidated in 2009 and 2010.”
And here’s Benny, on the ropes and switching the subject of discussion to *other* car manufacturers.
“You’re dismissed for the day……………..”
You can leave when I say you can leave, young man.
Jay
October 24th, 2012
2:37 pm
Crier, you’re right. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
DDR, two points:
1.) Whatever his other failings might be, Scout did indeed serve this country in the Secret Service.
2.) Your attack on him was personal in nature, and is not acceptable. Do not repeat that kind of behavior, please.
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:37 pm
“why did Ford lobby strongly in FAVOR of the bailout of their competitors, and why do they continue to defend the bailout as necessary for their own competitive health as well.”
Easy. Because they are inextricably tied to the UAW thugs as well, and no Obama will never fail them.
You’re dismissed for the day too………………..
ragnar danneskjold
October 24th, 2012
2:38 pm
Maybe “Blame American First” tour would be more descriptive, but “Apology Tour” works for me. For those who wish to stroll down memory lane, you can hear Chauncey reciting his litany of America’s shortcomings to foreign audiences at Rush Limbaugh’s webpage.
They BOTH suck
October 24th, 2012
2:38 pm
Thulsa
Are you also able to tell if people are really Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, etc?
H. E. Pennypacker
October 24th, 2012
2:38 pm
Ben,
Why should Obama apologize for immigration when it has fallen to essentially nothing?
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/
You really are operating in a fact free zone aren’t you?
Ben Shockley
October 24th, 2012
2:39 pm
“but what makes you think Ford had the money around to take over the liquidated assets and even begin to fulfill that demand?”
I didn’t say Ford. I said all the other competitors, and noted that “foreign” cars are generally produced here too.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 24th, 2012
2:39 pm
B. Shockley — “Doesn’t matter…”
Rejected, along with your repeated income claims.
“If GM and Chrysler were liquidated, demand would have went up for those remaining.”
Not if overall demand wend down, it wouldn’t. Simple math. Accent on simple.
“I already dismissed you for the day”
No, I’m waiting on your parents to arrive so we can have a discussion about how you’ve been acting up in class.