Charter-school amendment would set off gold rush

Reading the list of out-of-state contributors to the campaign to pass Amendment 1, the state charter-schools amendment, you get the sense that an old-fashioned gold rush would begin in Georgia the moment the amendment is approved.

J.C. Huizenga, founder of Michigan-based National Heritage Academies, a for-profit charter school operator, has contributed $25,000; his company contributed a matching $25,000. Charter Schools USA, based in Florida, contributed $50,000 as well. D.A. Davidson, a financial services firm based in Great Falls, Montana that touts itself as “a recognized leader in charter school financing,” has so far given $5,000. And K12 Inc., a for-profit provider of online classes and “full-time online public schools,” has kicked in $100,000.

Those account only for contributions made through Sept. 21; the final campaign-disclosure reports may include additional big-dollar donations from companies eager to enter Georgia’s public-school marketplace.

Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong about for-profit companies operating in the education sector. However, despite the fervor of those who preach that competition solves all problems, there’s nothing inherently good about it either. None of the countries that outperform the United States in education, for example, do so through the for-profit model.

In addition, the overall shoddy performance of for-profit colleges and universities here in the United States provides stark evidence that when the profit motive conflicts with academic standards, profit takes precedence. A Senate report released this summer found that tuition at for-profit colleges averages six times that of community colleges, while the education provided is greatly inferior. Only a small fraction of students who enroll at for-profit colleges actually graduate, and those who do get degrees usually find their diplomas aren’t worth much. That explains in part why students at for-profit schools account for almost 50 percent of student-loan defaults, even though they make up just 10 percent of the nation’s student body.

And why are for-profit colleges generally inferior? In short, the $32 billion industry has found it more lucrative to compete on grounds other than education quality. According to the Senate report, the nation’s 30 largest for-profit schools spend just 17 percent of their revenue on student instruction, while spending 22.7 percent on marketing to keep fresh bodies coming in.

There’s every reason to worry that similar dynamics will play out in k-12 education. Take K12 Inc., the company that has so far contributed $100,000 to opening up the Georgia market. In Florida, where the company operates in 43 school districts, a typical K12 high school teacher may have as many as 275 online students per class, which enhances profitability if not education. Last month, Florida officials launched an investigation into charges that K12 also uses teachers uncertified for the classes they teach and that company officials asked employees to cover up that fact.

It’s also important to consider the ethical culture in which the Georgia education gold rush would take place. On Sunday, the AJC reported that the State Properties Commission — headed by Gov. Nathan Deal — decided that the best place to locate a new, $13.6 million State Poultry Laboratory was in a Hall County industrial park. In what was clearly just a happy coincidence, the park turns out to be owned in part by Deal’s close friend and campaign manager.

If an appointed commission is given the power to create state charter schools run by private enterprise, I suspect the potential for many more such happy coincidences would increase. It’s interesting, for example, that under Amendment 2, also on the November ballot, the State Properties Commission would for the first time be given constitutional authority to sign real-estate leases of up to 20 years.

There are good arguments in favor of that proposal. However, it’s also true that if one were contemplating a spate of new state-authorized charter schools, the ability to sign long-term leases with developers would be very useful in getting the necessary facilities built. Again, just a coincidence I’m sure.

– Jay Bookman

420 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2012
7:53 am

Just yesterday I received a nice glossy direct mailer telling me that I’ll get ponies and candy if I allow those swell charter skoolz into GA by voting YES.

I assume there’ll be more to come.

Fly-On-The-Wall

October 24th, 2012
7:54 am

Of course it’s just a coincidence. The current crop of Republicans in this state would NEVER do anything to hurt the citizens here. They are only looking out for our best interests day and night, 24×7, round-the-clock. (puke)

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2012
7:54 am

And why are for-profit colleges generally inferior?

dunno, there’s something in the Good Book about the problem of serving two masters, gotta look that up.

Fly-On-The-Wall

October 24th, 2012
7:54 am

I’m number….2!

Fly-On-The-Wall

October 24th, 2012
7:57 am

Given the rush to privatize virtually everything in this state and country by our Republican bretheren you’d think they’d want to privatize s e x next. Those working women (and men) really can do this better because they are professionals.

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2012
7:57 am

But seriously, I can’t even imagine how long it will take to untangle this massive web of corruption, down the road, if these two measures pass.

and I see no reason why the “Charter Skoolz and Ponies!” measure won’t pass (dunno about the other one Jay’s mentioned), although who knows, maybe our corporate media might have some kind of conscience and will actually report on who benefits sometime between now and the tuesday after next.

Wouldn’t hold my breath on that, though.

Fly-On-The-Wall

October 24th, 2012
7:57 am

Stands,

They only have one master – no need to look it up.

Ronald Reagan Parkway

October 24th, 2012
7:58 am

The South has a long history of discrimination. This video is pretty long people but it is worth watching. Without Brown –vs. – Board of Education, this country would be on the same track. Just vote NO to this amendment. Please do not give Nathan Deal this much power with our tax dollars!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ACS4PgDFA

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2012
8:02 am

They only have one master – no need to look it up.

That would be the overriding principle of educating tomorrow’s leaders in commerce and government, right?

Whew, I feel so much better now.

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2012
8:03 am

Anyway, someone’s got to pay for this crap, so it’s off a-producin’ I go. Back later…

Georgia on my mind..

October 24th, 2012
8:04 am

It’s also important to consider the ethical culture in which the Georgia education gold rush would take place. On Sunday, the AJC reported that the State Properties Commission — headed by Gov. Nathan Deal — decided that the best place to locate a new, $13.6 million State Poultry Laboratory was in a Hall County industrial park. In what was clearly just a happy coincidence, the park turns out to be owned in part by Deal’s close friend and campaign manager.

_______

It is amazing how this state can let this happen. Is there not an F.B.I. investigation into Nathan Deal’s skills at skirting outside the law?

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2012
8:05 am

Jay,

You should profit off the Republicans for your efforts to educate them. It’s only fair.

Republicans,

Take out student loans and pay Jay for educating you. Do it! Now!

Child, please

October 24th, 2012
8:09 am

I would like to know what percentage of our tax dollars go to classroom instruction in our public schools. All we here is how expenditures have gone through the roofs over the years while our performance drops, while the number of “administrative” people skyrockets. Have the % of dollars spent on instruction INCREASED or DECREASED here? I’d appreciate anyone posting any statistics on the matter.

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2012
8:09 am

Will the porn king that Nathan sold his business property to be keeping the name “Wilder Outdoors” when he opens shop. It does have its connotations that Republicans might just find appealing.

Aquagirl

October 24th, 2012
8:11 am

I’ll get ponies and candy if I allow those swell charter skoolz into GA

Offer free candy and ponies to a child and most will suspect something’s up. On the other hand Georgia voters will swallow this measure like a pr0n star.

Fly-On-The-Wall

October 24th, 2012
8:12 am

I have watched as people work/job has been changed to being another commodity, something bought/sold/traded as though we were nothing but a piece of furniture. All of this in the name of ‘improving’ things, that business can do it better and if it is done better we all will share in those rewards/improvements.

Now they want to do this to education. This must be stopped here and now. Not everything in life can be put on a balance sheet or should it and education falls into that category.

Get Smart

October 24th, 2012
8:15 am

GA schools = cash crop. Politicians’ pockets are heavy with the haul. Vote no.

Hugh G. Johnson

October 24th, 2012
8:16 am

Libs be whining

[r]epublican - If you have to ask, your part of the problem...

October 24th, 2012
8:18 am

“You should profit off the Republicans for your efforts to educate them. It’s only fair.”

HA! Maybe the big “R” Republicans but never a little “r” [r]epublican. The [r]epublican would school Jay. Was that a bell??? Class is in session……

Fulfilling Father’s Campaign To Segregate Public Schools

October 24th, 2012
8:18 am

In a way, the Koch brothers are simply fulfilling their father’s legacy. In 1958, Fred Koch — the founder of Koch Industries — joined a group of manufacturing executives and Robert Welch to found the John Birch Society, a virulent far-right group that dominated the civil rights debate. The John Birch Society organized an impeachment campaign against then-Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren for the Brown v. Board decision outlawing racial segregation, and mobilized its supporters to oppose integration of schools on the grounds that mixing black and white would lead to the “mongrelization” of the races. Fred supported the John Birch Society’s anti-civil rights campaign, and wrote a screed denouncing the civil rights movement as communist-inspired.
Charles and David did not only inherit an oil company, they inherited a political philosophy. The Tea Party movement, orchestrated by AFP and other Koch fronts, reflects the paranoid style of the movement started by their father, Fred. As Thom Hartmann has explained, corporate interests have long funded far-right, paranoid movements to continually shift the balance of politics in America. The radical right creates political space for corporate candidates like Richard Nixon or Mitt Romney to appear “moderate” in contrast. David Koch, it should be noted, actually supports Romney for president in 2012 even though David’s fronts have spent the last two years boosting reactionaries like Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC).

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/188-188/4594-koch-brothers-campaign-to-segregate-public-schools

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2012
8:20 am

I would like to know what percentage of our tax dollars go to classroom instruction in our public schools.

http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/10f33pub.pdf

independent thinker

October 24th, 2012
8:23 am

How much money is Tagg Romney going to make if this amendment passes????
I am sure everyone knows about his for profit education company that Daddy created with ten milllion from that fake blind trust.

Jerome Horwitz

October 24th, 2012
8:23 am

Geuss this goes along with the Republican desire to do away with the Dept. of Education and return control to the states. Control meaning the ability to compensate their cronies without anyone looking over their shoulder. Glad I grew up in another time/place where education was valued and the community responsible.

USMC

October 24th, 2012
8:24 am

Breaking News! Obama Administration KNEW from the beginning… Obama Lied… People Died!

Emails detail unfolding Benghazi attack on Sept. 11…
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57538689/emails-detail-unfolding-benghazi-attack-on-sept-11/?tag=AverageMixRelated

Bad News for the Obama Administration…

jconservative

October 24th, 2012
8:25 am

Never vote to increase the power of the central government.

Moderate Line

October 24th, 2012
8:26 am

In addition, the overall shoddy performance of for-profit colleges and universities here in the United States provides stark evidence that when the profit motive conflicts with academic standards, profit takes precedence. A Senate report released this summer found that tuition at for-profit colleges averages six times that of community colleges, while the education provided is greatly inferior. Only a small fraction of students who enroll at for-profit colleges actually graduate, and those who do get degrees usually find their diplomas aren’t worth much. That explains in part why students at for-profit schools account for almost 50 percent of student-loan defaults, even though they make up just 10 percent of the nation’s student body.

And why are for-profit colleges generally inferior? In short, the $32 billion industry has found it more lucrative to compete on grounds other than education quality. According to the Senate report, the nation’s 30 largest for-profit schools spend just 17 percent of their revenue on student instruction, while spending 22.7 percent on marketing to keep fresh bodies coming in.
+++++
None of this even applies to charter schools. Is the government going to give loans to people to go to charter schools? No. Are charter schools going to charge tuition? No. If they did would people go to them? No, if people were going to pay for a charter school they would probably pay to go to private school. Apples and oranges.

Jay brings up for profit colleges but has this had any negative affect on the public colleges. No. For profit colleges exist because of the student loan program subsidize people going to college even if they are taking a courses that do not achieve a usable degree. Charter schools can be either for profit or non-profit. If charter schools are not graduating their students at the same rate as the local public school are people going to go there? No.

People go to for profit colleges paying 6 times the tuition because they can’t graduate from a traditional college.

For more on profit colleges watch the documentry linked below on profit colleges.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/

Ronald Reagan Parkway

October 24th, 2012
8:29 am

People go to for profit colleges paying 6 times the tuition because they can’t graduate from a traditional college.

____

They can always try the community colleges or technical schools. (DeKalb Tech, Gwinnett Tech, Georgia Perimeter, etc.)

Mick

October 24th, 2012
8:36 am

The times they are a changin…incredible how we are sprinting towards a new age of privitization where the money flows upward to the few…

DJ Sniper

October 24th, 2012
8:39 am

USMC, please take your trolling antics somewhere else. This conversation has nothing to do with Obama.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
8:39 am

“incredible how we are sprinting towards a new age of privitization where the money flows upward to the few”

Not towards…back to. Why do you think they want to “take our country BACK”?

Clanmack

October 24th, 2012
8:40 am

Didn’t know about the porn king land deal. Who got the better of that transaction? Was the porn king a contribution to Deal’s campaign for Governor?d

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
8:43 am

“Was the porn king a contribution to Deal’s campaign for Governor?”

I know you actually meant “contributor” but it’s a lot funnier the way it came out!

kayaker 71

October 24th, 2012
8:47 am

Would we even he having these conversations about charter schools if systems like the Atlanta Public Schools and Clayton County had done their jobs?

Mr Right

October 24th, 2012
8:48 am

The libs are getting their britches jacked up because something might go private!

ragnar danneskjold

October 24th, 2012
8:50 am

Thus the effect of government intervention is to discourage capital investment, and removing that impediment will draw private investment. From your pen to Obama’s large ears.

godless heathen

October 24th, 2012
8:54 am

USMC, please take your trolling antics somewhere else. This conversation has nothing to do with Obama.

No it’s about Romney’s son Tagg.

willie lynch

October 24th, 2012
8:54 am

There used to be a time when reporting on things such as Deals deals would lead to a public outcry. Unfortunately we sit back and take it because it’s come to be expected that these things are going to happen.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
8:54 am

“The libs are getting their britches jacked up because something might go private!”

So you’re Ok with the government “confiscating” your money via taxes and then using it to pay for the education of someone elses kids in what amounts to a private school? And here I thought the mantra was LESS GOVERNMENT. Learn something new every day.

curious

October 24th, 2012
8:56 am

If Charter Schools, funded with public money, are so great, then just close all the cureent public schools, eliminate school boards and go all Charter.

kayaker 71

October 24th, 2012
9:01 am

Time to go fishing with the grandkids…… a parting thought….. Today is the oldest you have ever been, yet the youngest you will ever be so enjoy this day while it lasts.

Moderate Line

October 24th, 2012
9:02 am

Off topic but interesting. The Washington Post had a story on Total Taxes paid by income group.
0-20 – 17.4%
20-40 – 21.2%
40-60 – 25.2%
60-80 – 28.3%
80-90 – 29.5%
90-95 – 30.3%
95-99 – 30.4%
Top 1% – 29%
This dispels two myths. One is 50% of the people do not pay taxes and that the rich pay less total taxes than everyone else.(Right Myth) The top 1% pay less tax as percentage of income than those who pay no income taxes.(Left myth)

As always the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The Top 1% pay less taxes than the 80-99% but not hte 0-80.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/

http://ctj.org/images/taxday2012table.jpg

Mr Right

October 24th, 2012
9:03 am

The libs are getting their britches jacked up because something might go private!”

So you’re Ok with the government “confiscating” your money via taxes and then using it to pay for the education of someone elses kids in what amounts to a private school? And here I thought the mantra was LESS GOVERNMENT. Learn something new every day.

So if this is more government, why are you so jacked about it, thought libs are for government! Nice try!

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2012
9:03 am

The cons are drooling over the prospect of profitting from privatizing more tax dollars.

iRun

October 24th, 2012
9:04 am

Jay,

You say this “Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong about for-profit companies operating in the education sector.” and then go forth to disprove it.

By the way, I totally disagree with that statement. There is something completely and totally inherently wrong with for-profit education.

It’s like for-profit parenting.

willie lynch

October 24th, 2012
9:05 am

Why should I pay a private company to drive on highways built for public use? Privatization is not the answer to everything.

the cat

October 24th, 2012
9:05 am

Ragnar is just jealous. We know what big ears, big feet mean.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:06 am

“So if this is more government, why are you so jacked about it, thought libs are for government! Nice try!”

You thought wrong. Nice try.

Ol' Timer

October 24th, 2012
9:06 am

Aliens have invaded this country and sucked the common sense out of the brains of a considerable portion of our population. At least, that’s the only explanation I can come up with to explain the idiocy that is abounding in our midst.

Moderate Line

October 24th, 2012
9:06 am

curious

October 24th, 2012
8:56 am
If Charter Schools, funded with public money, are so great, then just close all the cureent public schools, eliminate school boards and go all Charter.
++++
The counter to that is if public schools are better then charter schools will not be a threat since people will choose the best option. What is wrong with people actually having a choice

the cat

October 24th, 2012
9:07 am

It’s like for-profit parenting

Are we talking about the Kardashians again???

curious

October 24th, 2012
9:07 am

iRun

“It’s like for-profit parenting.”

Just like the welfare mommas having more kids in order to get a bigger check.

We’ll be paying for it.

independent thinker

October 24th, 2012
9:07 am

“”"”"”"”"”Yesterday, Mitt Romney visited Universal Bluford Charter School in West Philadelphia to highlight the need for more school choice and opportunities for low-income students.

Say what you will about Mitt’s trip to an inner-city charter school but don’t say it was because he cares about education.

Education too can be leveraged, it can have a profit. No, no, no…not for you or me but for those private equity groups. Romney has $10,000,000 invested in Solamere Capital, a PE firm headed by his son Tagg. Solamere offered its clients TA Associates which invests in privatizing education. “”"”"”"”"

http://jjocarolata.newsvine.com/_news/2012/05/25/11877790-romneys-investment-in-for-profit-schoolswith-his-son-tagg

That being the same son who has an interest in the company providing voting machines in the current election.
No conflicts of interest in this family.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:08 am

“There is something completely and totally inherently wrong with for-profit education”

No, there isn’t. If parents want to put their children in for-profit schools, that is their decision. They just can’t do it with MY money. Their decision, THEIR money.

RB from Gwinnett

October 24th, 2012
9:09 am

Look at the state of the school systems in Georgia controlled by democrats and then tell us why they’re even allowed to voice opinions on the subject.

I agree charter schools and school choice are not the answer because neither addresses the real problems. But when parents can’t send their kid to private school and they have no influence over lousy teachers or lousy administrators at their school, what do you expect them to do? Charter schools and school choice are seen as their only means of influencing the system.

Something for you to think about… Every one of you remembers still today which teachers you had in high school were effective and which ones weren’t. Why didn’t anybody ever ask you for that information?

Common Sense

October 24th, 2012
9:09 am

You really believe these non profit schools are run any differently than the non-profit NFL?

And because of that you fear for profit competition?

You better start watching Intrade, where the Messiah’s stock is falling faster than the DJIA.

Steven

October 24th, 2012
9:09 am

This country is being taken over by Capitalist in the name of Capitalism. Now education is going to suffer because all this student debt that our recent college grads are amassing and have amassed. Education is no better when you have to pay out of the ears and noses for it. Already voted NO and so did all my friends, family and co-workers. AMF, we have led a think tank on why Charter Schools are bad news. I listened to Eric Erickson yesterday on 750WSB radio and his ranting calling Tea Party people idiots for being opposed to the Charter School Amendment. We are not idiots, privitization of education in America of course is not a new thing. It puts money in the pockets of a few at the top. As seen by the out-of-state contributors to this amendment.

The same thing happened to hospitals. When the Catholics, Baptist, and other faith-based groups were heading these hospitals, they had a soul. Now that big-business has gotten involved, i.e., Alegent, Kaiser, Emory (a private school) etc healthcare declines and the bottom line is to make a profit for the ’shareholders’. So give me a break….I would vote NO forever on this Charter School Amendment.

the cat

October 24th, 2012
9:10 am

Where is Fred? We need his insight on this.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:11 am

“The counter to that is if public schools are better then charter schools will not be a threat since people will choose the best option. What is wrong with people actually having a choice”

Nothing is wrong with having a choice. There is nothing stopping any company from having private schools now. The issue is that they want to be paid from OUR tax money, not from the pockets of their students parents.

MiltonMan

October 24th, 2012
9:11 am

Jay fails to mention that the federal government plays a big, big role in keeping these evil “for-profit” schools in business with the plethora of federal student loan/grant programs.

Typical libs solution: Charter schools are bad; let’s just keep our wonderful public school system the way they are and continue to throw money at it only to hope that more money with eventually improve the schools.

Moderate Line

October 24th, 2012
9:11 am

Mr Right

October 24th, 2012
9:03 am
The libs are getting their britches jacked up because something might go private!”

So you’re Ok with the government “confiscating” your money via taxes and then using it to pay for the education of someone elses kids in what amounts to a private school? And here I thought the mantra was LESS GOVERNMENT. Learn something new every day.

So if this is more government, why are you so jacked about it, thought libs are for government! Nice try!
+++++
Charter School vs Public School. How is either one more or less government. They are two ways of implementing the same amount of government. Also, the government currently takes taxs dollars and hire private contractors to build roads, schools, office building schools, prisons etc. Would you advocate the government start doing all this in house instead of contracting out? Would doing it in-house be more or less government? It would be neither. It is merely a different way of doing the same thing a different way. Personally, I believe public school will the predominate choice of most people.

curious

October 24th, 2012
9:12 am

Moderate Line
++++
“The counter to that is if public schools are better then charter schools will not be a threat since people will choose the best option. What is wrong with people actually having a choice”

Nothing wrong with people having a choice. I’m just against having to pay for two school systems. I’d rather have a single public funded system that works.

If a parent objects to their child having to go to school with the riff raff, then send them to a private school.

Gale

October 24th, 2012
9:13 am

The best school possible will fail to educate a kid if neither the kid, nor the parent is committed to the child’s education. Adding charter schools will not automatically improved GA’s education status.

iRun

October 24th, 2012
9:14 am

curious, you’re an idiot if you think that’s a profit. Truly.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 24th, 2012
9:14 am

JAY

I apologize for off topic nature of this but sometimes fact is really much, much stranger than fiction:

1) Solyndra gets $500M (No need to mention Kaiser bundler..another story)
2) Solyndra files bankruptcy
3) Obama and DEMs begin attack on private equity in campaign
4) Solyndra arises from bankruptcy….due to a PE group…
5) PE group gets monster tax break in the process despite DOE objection..

http://bankruptcynews.dowjones.com/article?an=DJFDBR0020121022e8amiezyn%20&r=wsjblog&ReturnUrl=http%3a%2f%2fbankruptcynews.dowjones.com%3a80%2farticle%3fan%3dDJFDBR0020121022e8amiezyn%2520%26r%3dwsjblog

UNCLE SAMANTHA

October 24th, 2012
9:14 am

IGNORANT LIBERALS

1) charter schools are not PRIVATE schools – only liberals cannot make the distinction

2) Education in Georgia is funded on a roughly 50/50 basis by state tax dollars and local tax dollars (it varies slightly from district to district). When a parent chooses to send their child to a charter school, the state dollars for that child follow him/her to the charter school to fund their education.

3)The local school dollars (E-SPLOST and property taxes) previously allocated for that child’s education remain with the local BOE even though it no longer has the obligation to educate that child.

http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/10-23-2012/correcting-errors-charter-school-foes

MiltonMan

October 24th, 2012
9:14 am

“Now education is going to suffer because all this student debt that our recent college grads are amassing and have amassed. Education is no better when you have to pay out of the ears and noses for it.”

(1) Our “education system” is not suffering now???
(2) No pity on students who take on massive debt to study history, art, music, etc. because they “love their major”. Study something you don’t necessarily love but will obtain decent employment.

bob

October 24th, 2012
9:16 am

If the powers that be are against charters then I am for it, simple enough. I pay close to 10K in property taxes and have no English speaking elementary school option in my neighborhood. And interesting that Jay isn’t turning our attention to the fact that the white house knew the embassy was attacked by terrorists two hrs after it happened. Pretty sad Obama lied so many times when he told us it was over a video. And does it help our standing in the world that everyone but Obama knew what happened ? If Obama did not lie then he is not the smartest man ever to take office.

Williebkind

October 24th, 2012
9:16 am

Wow, the progressives see their indoctrinaion base being challenged-charter schools. Yep those Kock brothers are far worse than Lenin, Marx, Stalin, and Castro, the heros of the progressive liberal. Yes, with charter schools those liberal teachers cant spew hate to our children, create divisiveness among races, and our children might actually get prepared for college for skills other than in sports.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 24th, 2012
9:17 am

USMC

October 24th, 2012
9:17 am

Bob Woodward: Obama ‘mistaken’ on sequester
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82772.html

Obama, The Liar!

curious

October 24th, 2012
9:18 am

iRun
“curious, you’re an idiot if you think that’s a profit. Truly.”

Thanks for the insult, but that is exactly the mentality of many of those welfare mommas.

MiltonMan

October 24th, 2012
9:19 am

Win/win for me. Charter school vote fails: I still live in a district with some of the best schools in the state. Charter school vote passes: I have a choice between a very good school or a very good school.

Sucks to be a liberal and having to send your kids to APS, DeKalb, Clayton – all crappy schools.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 24th, 2012
9:19 am

WILLIE

At least our kids get to pay for college where the lunatic left unhinged faculty can shout them down with their outerworldly political BS..

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:19 am

“Also, the government currently takes taxs dollars and hire private contractors to build roads, schools, office building schools, prisons etc.”

the difference is that all of those are in the public interest. I use roads, government buildings, etc. Prisons help protect us all from criminals. And I have no problem with Charter schools UNTIL it comes time to pay them

I have no children, never have had, yet I still pay taxes that go towards schooling students. And I don’t have a problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is the government taking that money and giving it to someone else who wants their childrens education done outside the public school system.

I’ve said it before and I stand by it: if parents want to take their kids out of public schools, fine…go for it. But the only MONEY they can get is what they paid in taxes that go towards public schools. Leave MY money in the public schools system. That’s what I’m paying it for and that’s where it belongs.

RB from Gwinnett

October 24th, 2012
9:21 am

Face it. The only real opposition here is giving up control of the money. If its really about educating kids, this is a no brainer.

james

October 24th, 2012
9:22 am

Hope this fails like T Splost did and Im voting for
Romney- we need a change! If you want charter schools foot the bill yourself
or better yet pay to go to a private school or homeschool
which many folks do these days….

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 24th, 2012
9:22 am

USMC

If not already done so, suggest you read the whole book…it is mostly a tale of failed leadership by BO in cliff debate…but it is also clear that the GOP was more than a little inept..

BTW A123 has filed for bankruptcy…I guess this means the Chinese can buy them at more of a discount..

Georgia

October 24th, 2012
9:22 am

Charter Schools is a done deal. No amount of sunshine can stop it. Congratulations to Jay and Kyle for a sucessful debate yesterday. Today, Donald Trump will torpedo Obama’s campaign. A debate with Trump is obviously a debate with an Empty Hair. Isn’t there a 20 centimeter distance between the ears minimum for any partisan shrill? Someone contact the Chinese Embassy.

MiltonMan

October 24th, 2012
9:23 am

“I’ve said it before and I stand by it: if parents want to take their kids out of public schools, fine…go for it. But the only MONEY they can get is what they paid in taxes that go towards public schools. Leave MY money in the public schools system. That’s what I’m paying it for and that’s where it belongs.”

Same person who has a problem with HIS/HER money going to a parent who has a choice on their children’s education; has no problme with taxpayer money being used for abortions, “free” health care, welfare, “free” phones, etc., etc.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:25 am

“Charter Schools is a done deal”

Of course they are…but THIS amendment is to inject the state’s power into what should be a LOCAL issue.

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2012
9:26 am

Republicans already get all the education they need from Rupert Murdoch for the price of their Fox channel subscription so why would they want to pay him even more.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:28 am

“Same person who has a problem with HIS/HER money going to a parent who has a choice on their children’s education; has no problme with taxpayer money being used for abortions, “free” health care, welfare, “free” phones, etc., etc”

Tax payer money does not go for abortions. The other things benefit everyone, not just those who get those services. Do you REALLY want people with a dangerous, communicable disease to be wandering around unable to get care…and thus infecting others around them?

Public schools are a benefit to all of us too, because an educated populace is a productive populace. But anyone who wants what amounts to private schooling should have to pay for it themselves, and not take that money from ME to do it.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

October 24th, 2012
9:28 am

the profit motive conflicts with __________, profit takes precedence.

Moderate Line

October 24th, 2012
9:28 am

What is odd is I normally vote no on all amendments but this blog has actually made me look into the issue and I voted yes.
Here are the main arguments against charter schools.
1. People who work for companies that make a profit have no souls.
2. People should not make profit from tax payer money.
3. You should be against charter schools because it increases the power of government.
4. For profit colleges are bad so for profit charter schools are bad.
5. There should be no profit motive in schools. I guess this doesn’t apply to the building of schools and to the people actually running the schools making over $100,000.
6. Will take money away from Public Schools.
Most of these arguments are pretty weak other than 6.

Most of the people I know who sent their kids to charter schools were very happy. However, they still had some of the same problems as people in public schools. I don’t think charter schools are really much of a threat to public schools.

willie lynch

October 24th, 2012
9:29 am

To Jay’s point government is running the schools in the countries that are outperforming America. Privatize?

Mighty Righty

October 24th, 2012
9:30 am

My understanding is “Charter Schools” are superior to public schools in all respects. Therefore it only makes since to do what ever it takes to expand “Chareter Schools”. I don’t know what “for profit universities have to do with the ballot” question being voted on. Certainly there is a very successful record of private colleges versus public universities. Harvard, Yale, Stanford come to mind as pretty good schools.

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2012
9:30 am

I believe it was Johnson Controls that scarfed up A123’s automotive business assets. JCI is a good buy at its current price.

too little time

October 24th, 2012
9:30 am

If this amendment does not pass, there will never be another charter school in Georgia. No politician (local school board) will willingly give up any power whatsoever. Look at Clayton county as an example. They would rather lose accreditation than give up power.

If this amendment does pass, we are merely to the point where we were last year before the previous state involvement was declared unconstitutional (George constitution). Declaring that a “gold rush” is hyperbole.

Mary Elizabeth

October 24th, 2012
9:31 am

“Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong about for-profit companies operating in the education sector.”
===========================================

I appreciate this column very much, and for its highlighting the warning signs relative to changing traditional public schools to quasi-private public charter schools, which are often run by private profit-based management companies. However, I must register the degree of my rejection of this plan. As a committed teacher of children – grades 1 -12 – for 35 years, I am horrified by the prospects of what Amendment 1 may very well do to public education in Georgia. Children for profit. Unconscienable.

I am not naive, either, as to what is really going on here. It is not coincidental, imo, that Rep. Jan Jones and Rep. Edward Lindsey, sponsors of HR 1162 that became Amendment 1 chose to be members of ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) which wants to privatize public education. State Sen. Fran Millar, who supports this amendment (see Maureen Downey’s blog) is also a member of ALEC. I have stated before that presidential candidate Mitt Romney has an out-of balance mindset regarding “government” services and public “government” schools which are not based on profit. This Charter Movement, much of which springs from ALEC’s impetus, supported by the Koch Brothers, would move public non-for-profit schools into schools in which profiteers will make money on children and, imo, thereby, ultimately adversely affect the quality of education. More importantly, the model by which we teach children, of the service-based value of education, will change and, thereafter, the values in society will become even more entrenced in the value of exercising self-interests for profit over service to others, as is public not-for-profit education.
This must not happen in Georgia.

Eyes throughout the nation are on what Georgia will do regarding Amendment 1. Vote NO in NOvember for amendment 1. Improve public education. Don’t dismantle it and leave it to those with stealthy motivations to enrich their own pocketbooks. I placed my life’s priorities on helping children because, in my deepest core, I am a teacher. It is abhorrent to me to think that some would use children to benefit their own pocketbooks. Immoral, in fact, in my opinion

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:32 am

“Here are the main arguments against charter schools”

You haven’t voted yes for Charter schools…you have voted yes to give the state the power to overriede local school board decisions and to inject a charter school into a school system that rejected it.

You have voted FOR state power and AGAINST local power.

Moderate Line

October 24th, 2012
9:32 am

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

October 24th, 2012
9:28 am
the profit motive conflicts with __________, profit takes precedence.
+++
And what takes precedence in when profit motive is not there? Power. The Soviet Union did not have profit motive along with the rest of the Eastern Bloc.

Which was a better place to live? Where profit motive existed some extent or where it didn’t exist at all. I am amazed after the failure of the Soviet Union anyone would even make such arguments.

RAMBLE ON!!!

October 24th, 2012
9:32 am

Our Campaigner in Chief, King Obama lied about Benghazi and did nothing for 7 hours as our Ambassador and 3 other Americans were being murder by TERRORIST!!!

Get ready for the landslide, it’s coming!!!

Jimmy Carter, you are NOT the worst President anymore.

Madge From Accounting

October 24th, 2012
9:32 am

CP: I would like to know what percentage of our tax dollars go to classroom instruction in our public schools. All we here is how expenditures have gone through the roofs over the years while our performance drops, while the number of “administrative” people skyrockets.

Good Morning Child Please, (love your moniker); what you hear is true and false. Yes costs have risen, but NO its not all going into salaries. The costs have risen for the counties because the STATE has not matched the funds it should be matching towards their citizen’ education. The State is funded by the Feds and then the state “trickles down” what they get towards each county within the state. The state has been short changing the counties and have blamed it ont eh Teachers, (i.e.: Teacher’s Unions). If you wanna know where your money’s gone, look on the State Sup’s website.

Have the % of dollars spent on instruction INCREASED or DECREASED here? I’d appreciate anyone posting any statistics on the matter.

Well now, you can always Google this information. But let me get that for you, in case you don’t know how.

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2012
9:32 am

Tax payer money does not go for abortions.

Doggone,

Republicans do not like the idea of being educated unless you profit from it. Send MiltonMan a hefty bill.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2012
9:33 am

“My understanding is “Charter Schools” are superior to public schools in all respects”

Got proof?

Brosephus™

October 24th, 2012
9:33 am

The local school boards already have the power to create charter schools if the local taxpayers want to have them. This amendment is for big government because, instead of leaving school decisions on the local level, the state will be able to make decisions too. I choose to vote against big government. Funny how all the “conservatives” here are championing big government and the liberals here are against it.

Brosephus™

October 24th, 2012
9:34 am

What is odd is I normally vote no on all amendments but this blog has actually made me look into the issue and I voted yes.

Another champion of big government…..

Joseph

October 24th, 2012
9:35 am

Yet another shameful clueless blog by Bookman. You have no clue! Again I’ll ask have you ever visited a Charter school? Or for that matter have you ever visited a failing public school? Come down to SW Georgia and visit the Calhoun, Randolph/Clay or Mitchell/Baker High School. You can’t imagine the discipline problems these schools have yet you and your fellow libs want to force good kids to go to school there. Most of these school systems have democrats running them. Your ilk. Why haven’t they solved the many problems Jay? Why does public school cost twice, sometimes three times per student what Charter Schools cost Jay? Do you have an answer for that? Probably not…..
This is two comments in your tripe that hit a nerve:
However, despite the fervor of those who preach that competition solves all problems, there’s nothing inherently good about it either.
The problem with you liberals is that you all think throwing money at a problem will solve it. We all know this is not true because we throw billions away on a failed education system.
None of the countries that outperform the United States in education, for example, do so through the for-profit model.
But those countries don’t have the social problems (parental involvement) that we face in this country.

iRun

October 24th, 2012
9:36 am

curious, well, it’s also the mentality of someone making a 6-figure income. I feel like the less than 4% of Americans dependent on welfare (meaning more than half their income comes from subsidy) and the less than 16% receiving some sort of subsidy (that includes SS) aren’t exactly living off the high hog.

And, for the less that 4% they’re getting less than $500 a month for a family of three.

So, yeah, this girl who has a household income of nearly $200,000/year thinks you’re an idiot if you think a “welfare” momma is a for-profit parent.

Find something ELSE to talk about.

I am done with you and this conversation. You clearly do not know of what you speak.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

October 24th, 2012
9:36 am

I am amazed after the failure of the Soviet Union anyone would even make such arguments.

I am not amazed that you make such a blatantly puerile either/or argument.