Tracing the local origins of the vote-fraud myth

Those who have followed Fulton County politics for a long time will recognize the name Hans von Spakovsky. Back in the ’90s, as a local lawyer active in Republican circles, he started raising allegations of serious voting fraud that somehow never quite seemed to pan out.

Hans von Spakovsky

Hans von Spakovsky

Apparently, however, somebody somewhere recognized that the fraud allegation itself, even if merely a myth never bolstered by evidence, would be useful in justifying a push for more restrictive ballot laws that might tamp down Democratic turnout. It allowed von Spakovsky to take his schtick national, in time nailing a job in the voting rights section of the Bush Justice Department in which he tried — vainly, despite all the resources of the federal government — to establish that in-person vote fraud posed a clear and present danger to American democracy.

It might be too much to say that von Spakovsky singlehandedly created the mythology of voter fraud, but it clearly created him, serving as a hobbyhorse that he rode to prominence in conservative circles.

Jane Mayer, writing in the current New Yorker, tells his story well, along the way documenting multiple examples in which cases of in-person voting fraud cited by von Spakovsky seem to melt away like desert mirages upon closer inspection. His career is a great example of the power, and the danger, of a useful lie.

ADDENDUM: While we’re on the general topic, it might be useful to try to squelch early, fringe stirrings on the left alleging a conservative conspiracy to fix voting machines in Ohio. As the theory is spun at Truthout.org:

“Through a closely held equity fund called Solamere, Mitt Romney and his wife, son and brother are major investors in an investment firm called H.I.G. Capital. H.I.G. in turn holds a majority share and three out of five board members in Hart Intercivic, a company that owns the notoriously faulty electronic voting machines that will count the ballots in swing state Ohio November 7. Hart machines will also be used elsewhere in the United States.

In other words, a candidate for the presidency of the United States, and his brother, wife and son, have a straight-line financial interest in the voting machines that could decide this fall’s election. These machines cannot be monitored by the public. But they will help decide who “owns” the White House.

The claim is nonsense and without backing in fact. If you’re going to make charges or even raise suspicions of that grave nature, you need much more than a knee-bone-connected-to-the-thigh-bone argument of the sort offered here.

Otherwise, you’re no better than the von Spakovskys of the world.


– Jay Bookman

725 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

October 23rd, 2012
3:30 pm

Jane Mayer, writing in the current New Yorker, tells his story well

Seein’s how I still read the dead-tree version, I look forward to savoring this tale at my leisure. (not that one can really savor something so freaking depressing as this, I guess.)

oh, and first? let’s see…

Jm

October 23rd, 2012
3:32 pm

Truthout

Was it sfd, byteme, or keep that posted that earlier? I don’t recall….

What nonsense from the lib goobers.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:32 pm

LIB LOGIC

There is no voter fraud, because we don’t allow checking ID at the polls, and the resulting lack of examples of voter fraud PROVES there’s no voter fraud.

Using the same logic, we can stamp out speeding by not allowing the cops to use radar.

LMAO

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:34 pm

If we outlaw breathalyzers we can stamp out DUI.

Awesome

TaxPayer

October 23rd, 2012
3:34 pm

What do you get when you are willing to do anything for a buck? An Ann Coulter.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:35 pm

Come on Jay! You didn’t look/do THAT badly in your web debate with Kyle.

But we noticed you took it down awfully quick! :-)

Skip

October 23rd, 2012
3:36 pm

So Ben give us your estimate of how many past elections were false.

Jefferson

October 23rd, 2012
3:36 pm

You want a picture, take it when they vote.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:37 pm

Jefferson

October 23rd, 2012
3:37 pm

If cops patrol, they don’t need radar.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:37 pm

“What do you get when you are willing to do anything for a buck? ”

Become secretary of state?

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:39 pm

Rasmussen: ROMNEY 50%… Obama 46%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

In case you didn’t like Gallup. We give you a choice! :-)

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:41 pm

Obama: ‘Michelle and I Will Be Fine No Matter What Happens’ in the Election
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-michelle-and-i-will-be-fine-no-matter-what-happens-election_657232.html

Obama is seeing the writing on the wall… :-)

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 23rd, 2012
3:41 pm

Was it sfd, byteme, or keep that posted that earlier?

Not me. First I heard of it. I’m in tech, so the individual machines bother me less than the software used to collect the data from the machines. If you’re going to do massive vote fraud, that’s where you’d want to do it, not at the individual machine level. On the other hand, the government-led purging of voter rolls, like they tried in Florida with nearly a million people is a bigger problem.

stands for decibels

October 23rd, 2012
3:41 pm

Was it sfd

jm, for the record, I doubt that there’s been a systematic effort to hack voting machines to favor one side or another; and no, I hadn’t posted a link to that story.

(there were some dark times in late 04/early 05 when I might’ve been receptive to such speculation, I’ll acknowledge.)

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:41 pm

“So Ben give us your estimate of how many past elections were false”

I’m more concerned about future elections, given the enormous number of illegal voters/undocumented Democrats now living within our borders.

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
3:42 pm

LIB LOGIC

There is no voter fraud, because we don’t allow checking ID at the polls, and the resulting lack of examples of voter fraud PROVES there’s no voter fraud.

CON LOGIC

I can make up sh*t that nobody said and accuse them of whatever it is the voices in my head tell me. Since I beat up strawmen like there’s no tomorrow, I never have to provide actual proof of anything I say.

stands for decibels

October 23rd, 2012
3:42 pm

I think the voter suppression that is entirely legal (apparently, unless our SCOTUS ever decides to grow a freakin’ pair) and ongoing is plenty scandalous enough.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:43 pm

Romney Wins CBS Focus Group In Ohio…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6URuvgL2CKA&feature=youtu.be

tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock…..

TaxPayer

October 23rd, 2012
3:44 pm

It’s a felony to commit voter fraud… and to what end. How many people would have to make a deliberate coordinated concerted effort in each of numerous voting districts in order to effect a change. Realistically it would be much easier to cheat voters via the techniques that the Republicans have been using. Republicans will do anything for a buck, er, um, I mean, for a vote.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 23rd, 2012
3:44 pm

USMC has ADD.

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
3:45 pm

Three posts a day is my usual goal, USMC.

Still, I’m sorry to have to cut short your adoration of my performance with this latest distraction. Duty is duty.

Patrick

October 23rd, 2012
3:45 pm

“It allowed von Spakovsky to take his schtick national, in time nailing a job in the voting rights section of the Bush Justice Department”.

Of course it did! Wow. Just wow.

stands for decibels

October 23rd, 2012
3:45 pm

They get bitter, and they cling to guns, religion, focus groups and provably sketchy national polls.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:46 pm

LIB LOGIC

I pretend I’m opposed to illegal immigration and illegal voting, but I protest any attempt to enforce the laws in those two areas, and label any such attempt to be racist, disenfranchisement, etc.

Then I post nonsense about straw men and voices in people’s heads.

Peter

October 23rd, 2012
3:46 pm

USMC. please tell us the Romney economic plan if you will.

Thank you !

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 23rd, 2012
3:46 pm

Still, I’m sorry to have to cut short your adoration of my performance with this latest distraction.

Did he even make one post about it or was he doing his usual Monkey-poo flinging?

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:47 pm

josef

October 23rd, 2012
3:47 pm

IMAM

Dang, Big Daddy, lunatic right and left in the same column..fair and balanced or are you bucking for nomination to EOI membership?

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:48 pm

Peter. please tell us the Obama economic plan if you will.

Thank you !

ragnar danneskjold

October 23rd, 2012
3:48 pm

Evidence of voter fraud, in Washington state, in Minnesota, and in St. Louis is much better than evidence of “hunger” anywhere in America. (Although I admit that is funny language used by leftists – everyone gets hungry from time to time, and hunger is probably the greatest economic motivator ever discovered.)

The proposed cure for vote fraud – for everyone to present evidence they likely already have, proving they are who they claim to be – is nearly cost free, and undoubtedly enhances the integrity of the process. The only people injured in the process are those who would corrupt the process. Perversely it is only the left that opposes integrity in the vote.

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
3:48 pm

I protest any attempt to enforce the laws in those two areas, and label any such attempt to be racist, disenfranchisement, etc.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So much failure in so little time.

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Regnad Kcin

October 23rd, 2012
3:49 pm

“I’m more concerned about future elections, given the enormous number of illegal voters/undocumented Democrats now living within our borders.”

Ben – if they’re “Illegal voters” as you claim above, they must have voted in the past, mustn’t they?

Morality?

October 23rd, 2012
3:49 pm

Well – if there is no voter fraud that would gain you favor, why do you so angrily oppose honesty in voting?

ragnar danneskjold

October 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm

Just google “more votes cast than registered” for good hits.

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm

Josef, the difference would be that the left marginalizes and rejects such theorists, while the right gladly incorporates them into the borg.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm

The proposed cure for vote fraud – for everyone to present evidence they likely already have

And that’s where it falls apart. Turns out that something like 25% of poor people don’t have that state-defined evidence. Funny how Republicans would want to exclude them for some reason.

Saw today where 1/3 of all poor people will vote for Romney anyway.

Thulsa Doom

October 23rd, 2012
3:51 pm

Gallup has Romney up 51-46? No wonder Obama looked so mad last night and was losing his composure. Looks like the wheels are coming off the Obama campaign. Desperation time for the kooks.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm

Brocephus and Regnad prove my assertions.

Thanks guys.

Peter

October 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm

USMC…….. As most realize there is no plan in place by Romney just talking points, and baloney, that you are all excited about !

I wouldn’t get too excited about the Romney party just yet….. he will not win the election.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm

No wonder Obama looked so mad last night

Yep, the first meme out of Fox last night was “angry black man”.

Boogedy-boogedy-boogedy!!!!

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
3:53 pm

if there is no voter fraud that would gain you favor, why do you so angrily oppose honesty in voting?

Because
#1 There IS fraud in the electoral process; however

#2 The laws being enacted by the GOP don’t do a damn thing to curtail that fraud. They actually turn a blind eye to the actual fraud to go out “ghostbusting” fraud that’s almost nonexistent.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

October 23rd, 2012
3:53 pm

Nathan Sproul

Colin Small

Worth a google.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:53 pm

“Saw today where 1/3 of all poor people will vote for Romney anyway”

Guess they don’t want to remian poor.

Thulsa Doom

October 23rd, 2012
3:53 pm

“And that’s where it falls apart. Turns out that something like 25% of poor people don’t have that state-defined evidence”

How do they get a job without 2 forms of ID including a photo id? Seriously? Do they just not care about not being able to get a job?

Regnad Kcin

October 23rd, 2012
3:53 pm

“Brocephus and Regnad prove my assertions.

Thanks guys.”

Dang – and it was my own durn fault for feeding the troll…

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
3:54 pm

Ben Shockley

You made the assertions. You prove them. I don’t have access to the voices in your head nearly to the extent that you do.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:54 pm

“The laws being enacted by the GOP don’t do a damn thing to curtail that fraud. They actually turn a blind eye to the actual fraud to go out “ghostbusting” fraud that’s almost nonexistent.”

Speaking of making s__t up and attacking straw men………….

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
3:55 pm

“You made the assertions. You prove them. I don’t have access to the voices in your head nearly to the extent that you do.”

Liberalism 101 – When the facts are against you, resort to name-calling and ad hominem attacks

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 23rd, 2012
3:55 pm

How do they get a job without 2 forms of ID including a photo id?

Who says that retired people need jobs?

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 23rd, 2012
3:56 pm

Brosephus, don’t bother with the poo-flinger. It’s not worth it. He’ll just move the goalposts or make something else up. He’s boring.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:56 pm

“Still, I’m sorry to have to cut short your adoration of my performance with this latest distraction. Duty is duty.”–JAY

Actually Jay, I enjoyed listening to both you and Kyle. It reminded me that I enjoy listening to your viewpoint, like at your Real State of the Union, even though I completely disagree with your politics. You are great in person, and it enables me to learn as a person.
(even though I snipe at you a bit) :-)

BTW, that Halloween parade in Little 5 points last weekend was amazing!

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
3:57 pm

How do they get a job without 2 forms of ID including a photo id? Seriously? Do they just not care about not being able to get a job?

Well, when you work in Wetumpka, AL for the same family run business for 30 years, you didn’t need 2 forms of ID when you started working. When you have kids/grandkids who drive you around to run errands, you don’t need a photo ID to drive. When you own rifles/shotguns, you don’t need an ID to register for a concealment permit.

You’re simply viewing things through your personal POV without considering the fact that not everybody lives as you do, thinks as you do, or have the same needs or desires you do.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm

“USMC has ADD.”–Byteme got ilk

Byteme continues to wage WAR on SUCCESSFUL people, Doers!

Watch out or we will sue you for discrimination!

stands for decibels

October 23rd, 2012
4:01 pm

the right gladly incorporates them into the borg

You’ve touched on something I wanted to expand a bit. Yes, the GOP voter suppression efforts are effective inasmuch as they probably succeed in shaving a point or two (at least I hope that’s probably about all) off the opposition’s vote, whether through outright removal of legal voters from the rolls or via more generalized discouragement.

But this also provides a rallying cry for otherwise unmotivated GOP voters. Voting becomes just a little more critical if you think that the other side has armies of “illegal” voters stuffing the ballot boxes, after all. That’s probably good for half a point or so at least.

Put it together, and you have enough of an advantage to take the close ones, anyway. That’s why the GOP does this.

(Oh, and because they don’t mind acting like un-American swine, I guess.)

Matti

October 23rd, 2012
4:01 pm

Mr. Bookman,

I read about the Rmoney family’s voting-machine investment ties in Forbes. Is that considered a tabloid now? Thanks for the head’s up.

BTW, a software application that generates reports can be programmed to generate any output the programmer wants it to. All that’s required is an embedded script that circumvents a portion of the input criteria. Unless the source code is available for independent analysis, we have no way of knowing whether, when, or where that is happening.

(FYI: This scenario — as unlikely as it might seem to non-IT personnel — is far more plausible than someone having a baby in Africa and placing a birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper the next day, in preparation for duping the America people into electing a foreigner 40+ years later. Just sayin’.)

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
4:01 pm

To believe the conservative theorists, you have to be willing to believe that it is possible to recruit a large number of people — large enough to alter the outcome of an important election, so were talking hundreds in not thousands — and then convince them that it is worth risking a felony conviction for them to attempt to go to the polls to impersonate somebody else and maybe just maybe alter an election outcome.

Furthermore — and this is where it gets good — you then have to believe that these many people — the theory often describes them as homeless or otherwise down on their luck — never ever squeal on the plot. They never ever tell someone else, they never ever trade the story of how they helped rigged an election in return for, say, a better deal from the DA.

No. In the conservative mind, this is a perfect conspiracy with perfect internal security carried out simultaneously by large numbers of people in cities all over the country who in every other aspect of their lives are utterly irresponsible.

In other words, it is ridiculous and laughable on its face.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
4:02 pm

PETER…….. As most realize there is no plan in place by OBAMA just talking points, and baloney, that you are all excited about! Trickle Down Government has proven NOT to work.

I wouldn’t get too excited about the OBAMA party just yet….. he will not win the election. :-)

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
4:03 pm

“(FYI: This scenario — as unlikely as it might seem to non-IT personnel — is far more plausible than someone having a baby in Africa and placing a birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper the next day, in preparation for duping the America people into electing a foreigner 40+ years later. Just sayin’.)

Somehow, “this is no dumber than the birthers” doesn’t strike me as convincing.

Erwin's cat

October 23rd, 2012
4:03 pm

Ben – There is no voter fraud, because we don’t allow checking ID at the polls,

I have always been asked for an ID at the polls

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
4:03 pm

Ben

Just for you, not that I think you’ll read this because there are no pretty pictures drawn with crayons….

A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent.

In an exhaustive public records search, News21 reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of fraudulent activity including registration fraud, absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, false election counts, campaign fraud, casting an ineligible vote, voting twice, voter impersonation fraud and intimidation.

Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.

“Voter fraud at the polls is an insignificant aspect of American elections,” said elections expert David Schultz, professor of public policy at Hamline University School of Business in St. Paul, Minn.

“There is absolutely no evidence that (voter impersonation fraud) has affected the outcome of any election in the United States, at least any recent election in the United States,” Schultz said.

The News21 analysis of its election fraud database shows:

• In-person voter-impersonation fraud is rare. The database shows 207 cases of other types of fraud for every case of voter impersonation.

“The fraud that matters is the fraud that is organized. That’s why voter impersonation is practically non-existent because it is difficult to do and it is difficult to pull people into conspiracies to do it,” said Lorraine Minnite, professor of public policy and administration at Rutgers University.

• There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than any other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases of registration fraud. A required photo ID at the polls would not have prevented these cases.

Voter ID laws, as written, try to deal with IN PERSON fraud at the polls. The ID laws do nothing about registration or absentee balloting where there is exponentially more fraud. If you’re capable of following a link, here’s the link to the database of all the voting fraud cases they researched nationwide since 2000.

http://votingrights.news21.com/interactive/election-fraud-database/

Now, where’s your proof, or are you gonna go all strawman on me?

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:04 pm

“You made the assertions. You prove them”

Right back at ya, big guy. Start with these two…………..

“#1 There IS fraud in the electoral process; however”

“#2 The laws being enacted by the GOP don’t do a damn thing to curtail that fraud. They actually turn a blind eye to the actual fraud to go out “ghostbusting” fraud that’s almost nonexistent.”

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 23rd, 2012
4:05 pm

Jm: Truthout. Was it sfd, byteme, or keep that posted that earlier? I don’t recall….

Jm, well unlike you, I do admit when I post something and I do read the links before commenting. I did not post any such thing but that wont stop you from lying anyway. We’ve seen that. I have said in the past that voter fraud is more likely to take place in other situations other than “in person” voting fraud where a single person votes 2-3 times. Electronic balloting and tampering are ripe for that situation, which is NOT the same as claiming that it has occurred or that a certain candidate has done that.

But of course you can’t put on your big boy pants and even admit an article that talks about Delphi was not saying that it was currently a GM subsidiary, so I can’t imagine that you would be able to comprehend the nuances of my prior paragraph.

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
4:05 pm

“BTW, that Halloween parade in Little 5 points last weekend was amazing!

Yeah, sorry I missed it this year. Was attending a young person’s funeral, which is NOT a pleasant place to be. Heart-breaking.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

October 23rd, 2012
4:05 pm

Well, I got to admit I use to vote twice in a election—once here and once up in Rome GA where they kept me on the rolls. But then four years ago the state started making a big push to find and punish people like that and I gave it up. Besides, I ain’t getting any younger and that 80 minute drive each way was wearing me down.

So I tell everybody now, if you’re going to cheat do it by absentee ballot. My Mommy’s been dead 25 years and she’s still voting. You don’t need to show voter ID or nothing. Just be careful you don’t put a death notice in the paper if you plan on trying to figure out how a dead person would of voted if still alive. Even the most Conservative Republicans in this state won’t touch absentee voting and they won’t take you off of the rolls unless they suspect you’re dead.

Have a good night everybody.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
4:06 pm

BREAKING NEWS!

Debates deliver favorability edge to Romney; now above 50% in rating…
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/23/debates-deliver-favorability-edge-romney/

Last night, one candidate looked PRESIDENTIAL and the other…. looked JUVENILE. :-)

TaxPayer

October 23rd, 2012
4:06 pm

Republicans please be sure to remember to mail in your photo ID and your head along with your absentee ballots.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:06 pm

“Just for you, not that I think you’ll read this because there are no pretty pictures drawn with crayons….”

Like I said, name-calling and ad hominem attacks…

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
4:07 pm

Right back at ya, big guy. Start with these two…………..

Look above your head tinkerbell. Your turn.

Misty Fyed

October 23rd, 2012
4:07 pm

You better call your buddy Obama and tell him. He obviously didn’t get the memo today. He’s letting the UN come monitor our election sites for voter fraud.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm

Many states are giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, not by accident, but by policy. Many states have “motor-voter’ registration policies to register people to vote when they get a drivers license.

Liberals aren’t bright enough to see the linkage.

Liberals are so silly.

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm

Like I said, name-calling and ad hominem attacks…

Whasssamatta, can’t deal with it when your little internet bully crap is thrown back at ya??? Put your big boy pants on for once. Geez!!

Thulsa Doom

October 23rd, 2012
4:09 pm

Brocephus,

In my entire life I’ve had many jobs, including working for a friend of the family. I still had to provide 2 requisite forms of ID for his company and for every single job I’ve ever worked. What you are talking about is the exception and not the norm. And I seriously doubt that 25% of poor people work for a family business that they’ve known for 30 years and therefore they just don’t need id.

What about banking, driving,buying one freaking beer, etc? And are 25% of all poor people old people that are so old they never had a driver’s license and no longer drive? Not a single one of of my 65+ customers no longer drive and don’t have id that I am aware of. Not one. On a personal ad family basis I know a few seniors that no longer drive. But they still have driver’s licenses just so that they will have a photo id. Every one of them.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:10 pm

Brocephus…you’re boring. Go away. Tinkerbell? Really? That’s what passes for intellectualism at your house?

LMAO

Misty Fyed

October 23rd, 2012
4:10 pm

Ben Shockley…Obviously you haven’t learned yet that to a liberal…Reality is what they want it to be an any particular point in time…Truth doesn’t really enter the picture.

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
4:10 pm

“Yeah, sorry I missed it this year. Was attending a young person’s funeral, which is NOT a pleasant place to be. Heart-breaking.”–JAY

I am truly sorry to hear that, Jay. It makes you think about how precious life is and how we often overlook how wonderful life really is and take things for granted. :-)

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
4:11 pm

“Many states are giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, not by accident, but by policy. Many states have “motor-voter’ registration policies to register people to vote when they get a drivers license.

So demanding ID addresses this alleged problem how exactly?

Since “Liberals aren’t bright enough to see the linkage,” maybe you’d like to explain how demanding ID of people who by your own assertion already have that ID is going to accomplish a damn thing.

mark

October 23rd, 2012
4:11 pm

Keep abotion legal, it trims the dems voter rolls!!!

RB from Gwinnett

October 23rd, 2012
4:11 pm

The guy I bought a house from recently moved out of the area, so I’m going to take the mail I’m still getting with his name on it down to the polls and see if I can vote for him. With no ID, how would they ever know? I’ll cancel out two of you clowns this year playing your own game!!

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm

Brocephus is so concerned about illegal voting that he’s willing to go to any lengths to enable it.

LMAO

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:13 pm

“maybe you’d like to explain how demanding ID of people who by your own assertion already have that ID is going to accomplish a damn thing.”

see RB’s post.

You’re welcome

They BOTH suck

October 23rd, 2012
4:13 pm

RB

How much is your scenario taking place? And when the rightful person goes to vote, why are we not hearing he or she was denied because someone else already used their name?

You posted the same exact bs awhile back and was unable to provide evidence of what you assert.

Something changed

Thulsa Doom

October 23rd, 2012
4:13 pm

“Last night, one candidate looked PRESIDENTIAL and the other…. looked JUVENILE”

Yep. The snarky and condescending bit about aircraft carriers played well with the base that is already going to vote for O. But it looked juvenile indeed to the independents most likely.

They BOTH suck

October 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm

RB

But it does sound good and if it makes you feel good to believe it…… rock on dude

:-)

Pizzaman

October 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm

To date there has been 1, that is ONE, documented case in GA of voter fraud. That was in 1948. Yet the Gpublicans felt it necessary to pass the voter ID. Exempting notably: the absentee ballot.

The only voters affected are the poor white and black “share croppers” of rural GA who have NEVER needed a photo ID. EVERYBODY knows them. The whites have been voting since reconstruction. The blacks since 1965 and always in the same place where EVERYBODY knows them.

They don’t drive, rent video’s, cash checks, have credit or need a photo ID. Now they do, by decree of Teapublican legislators everywhere. PA’s tried it. FLA’s tried it. Indians has the best story.

A precinct in Indiana held it’s vote in a Convent for years. The Sisters were the poll workers. In 2008 the Sisters were forbidden from voting because they had no photo ID’s. Never had or never will need them. Their right to vote was stolen from them by Republicans trying to “cleanse” the voter roll’s of illegal voters. Wonder what God thinks of this one.

At home for me, FLA, the Fpublican Gov tried to “cleanse” the rolls of “suspect” voters, about 200,000. They were mostly, but not exclusively, black and hispanic. To date there are a total of 50 questionable voters. Still waiting on the results of if they are legal or not. But let’s say they aren’t. That makes a total of 51 bad’s in GA and FLA. So that justifies removing the right to vote of several million? I thought everybody has had the right to vote since 1965. Guess the clock is being turned back.

Vote early, vote often. Ignore repub voter ID, vote absentee.

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm

“The guy I bought a house from recently moved out of the area, so I’m going to take the mail I’m still getting with his name on it down to the polls and see if I can vote for him.

No.

You won’t. I flat-out guarantee that you won’t. And you won’t for the same reason that others won’t and don’t.

Because the risk of being arrested and charged with a felony FAR outweighs any possible benefit that you or others might gain.

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
4:16 pm

Ben, you were trapped in your own example and made a fool of yourself.

Again.

TaxPayer

October 23rd, 2012
4:16 pm

USMC

October 23rd, 2012
4:16 pm

“Yep. The snarky and condescending bit about aircraft carriers played well with the base that is already going to vote for O. But it looked juvenile indeed to the independents most likely.”–Thulsa Doom

Obama’s jaw was LOCKED all night.
He looked like a guilty kid sitting in the Vice Principals office having to answer to charges that he knows are true. :-)

They BOTH suck

October 23rd, 2012
4:16 pm

Jay

The blaze, newsmax, moonie times and wnd said it is occurring and is rampant, so it has to be………

Did I miss any other outlets?

;-)

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 23rd, 2012
4:17 pm

Ben, now I know you are still researching that MARTA base salary bus driver $100k thing, but you do know why some states issue driver’s licenses to non-citizens, right? I mean you know it and can articulate the reasons here for us now to show us silly libs that are not bright enough to comprehend why your voter fraud ID concern outweighs those reasons. And include in your assessment, how the other forms of voter ID accepted are only issued to citizens.

I would say we would wait for your post, because I am sure you so bright you have that all understood, digested and assessed….. oh wait.

Peter

October 23rd, 2012
4:17 pm

Thulsa Doom Where does the money come from to build the new navy ships ?

josef

October 23rd, 2012
4:17 pm

Why shouldn’t we have voter fraud,,,we got plenty of candidate fraud.

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
4:17 pm

Doom

I didn’t state it was wide reaching. My point is, you’re looking at the problem from YOUR personal perspective. You signal that by adding your personal testimony. That said, you don’t know the situation of most or even a significant part of the people with no ID. Do you think someone with Downs Syndrome will have a photo ID if they’ve never worked, never driven, and mom/dad takes care of them? If they’re over the age of 18, they are still entitled to vote.

I understand your point about the ID, and most people should possess at least one photo ID. My major problems with the ID laws is that:

#1 They don’t address absentee ballot identification.

#2 They vary, from state to state, in what constitutes a valid ID.

If the laws were consistent and covered ALL forms of voting, including the registration process, I would back the laws 100%.

————————-

Brocephus…you’re boring. Go away. Tinkerbell? Really? That’s what passes for intellectualism at your house?

Nope, Shirley, that doesn’t pass for anything here other than me having fun with you. I still see you haven’t said anything about the proof I posted for you, nor have you provided an electron of proof to back up your assertions. What gives? Cat’s got your tongue or something?

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:17 pm

“Because the risk of being arrested and charged with a felony FAR outweighs any possible benefit that you or others might gain.”

That’s why no illegal immigrants come here, right? Because they are so afraid of our justice system that it far outweighs any possible benefit of living here?

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:18 pm

“Ben, you were trapped in your own example and made a fool of yourself.”

what color is the sky in your world, Jay?

Jay

October 23rd, 2012
4:19 pm

Ben, you cannot be as dim in real life as you pretend to be here.

Ben Shockley

October 23rd, 2012
4:19 pm

Brocephus @ 4:17

too long, didn’t read, thanks for playing though

Brosephus™

October 23rd, 2012
4:19 pm

With no ID, how would they ever know? I’ll cancel out two of you clowns this year playing your own game!!

Don’t talk about it. Be about it. Just like the typical conservative. All bluster and no action.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Peter

October 23rd, 2012
4:19 pm

USMC … Obama saved us from going into a depression….. a result of Republican Spending and actions.

Most folks do know that.