Ohio voter-suppression laws give GOP’s game away

first!

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Voter supression under the guise of “protecting the right to vote” is just offensive.

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Jay, you have an unfinished sentence in the last word of the 3d to last paragraph.

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I’m shocked, absolutely shocked that republicans want to constrict voting, and which other state is leading the charge? Floriduh with gov. rick “the disaster” scott at the helm…bring back charlie crist a true american that promoted voting…

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You hurt Fred’s feelings Jay. He’s just very passionate about certain things and he didn’t mean any harm. Besides, He likes College Football — He’s just about perfect as far as I’m concerned.

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Jay

Thanks for letting Fred loose. Also, can you forward my contact info to USinUK for me?

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“Given the sanctity of the vote, how can ***GOP*** government officials actively seek to disenfranchise thousands of its citizens in such a fashion? It’s unconscionable.” (edited for clarification)

because they can’t win on ideas.

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“Voter supression under the guise of “protecting the right to vote” is just offensive.”

I see the liberal whining begins early today. As does the effort to protect the Democrat dead voters, multiple voters, and fraudulent voters.

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**because they can’t win on ideas.**

Bingo! Simple as that…

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(totally off-topic … )

got my USD … ready to fly home on Monday … see my dadkins, brother, sister, nieces, nephews and the world’s cutest GREAT niece …

oh, and bacon. I’m looking forward to eating REAL frickin bacon. That’s one thing that the Brits just don’t know how to do.

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“I’ll kill a man in a fair fight. Or if I think he’s gonna *start* a fair fight.”

–Jayne Cobb, Firefly

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how can government officials actively seek to disenfranchise thousands of its citizens in such a fashion

A sense of shame? An inkling of decency? what’s that?

I know it sounds hackneyed, but I really do wonder sometimes, what these people will tell their kids. Probably they hope it never comes up.

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As does the effort to protect the Democrat dead voters, multiple voters, and fraudulent voters.

As much as y’all whine about that sh*t, you think someone would have at least ONE court case that could be cited by now.

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Jay “falseness”,

They are not voter suppression, They are do it correctly and do it with identification.
Libs don’t like simple rules, because then they can’t cheat as easily.

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” Gotta make an appointment for a sonogram that afternoon too.”

are we expecting???

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I will admit this though Jay. Obama has a lock on the dead vote!!!

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” Libs don’t like simple rules, because then they can’t cheat as easily.”

yes, which is why it’s sooooooooooooooooo widespread.

oh.

wait.

nevermind.

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USinner

Yep #2 due in March.

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Jay “falseness”

Would it not be just as easy for a con vote to be in the wrong precinct as a lib vote. Or are you saying that the only one’s not knowledgeable enough to get it right (or in this case wrong) are libs.
Don’t think so. Nice try though.

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Well of course Fred didn’t mean any harm. He only meant kindness and love for Steve when he was badgering and bullying him after Steve had twice already apologized.

Yep, our resident “wanna be an ass just for the sake of being an ass” poster would know a thing or two about that.

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Can we go back to yesterday’s conversation regarding the unemployment numbers?…and, include the fact that California’s numbers were not included? I wonder what else happened to manipulate the results? hmmm

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Congrats Brosephus!

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KUTGF — “Of course, you could do what you did last night, falsely attribute a claim to another poster and then whine about proving the false statement, and when asked to prove the attribution, cluck and back out the door claiming “victory”.

Doom up to his old tricks again? He do like him some false claims he do.

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Burp!

Pacification accepted.

Thanks Jay

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JAY,

I think this is an issue although have no idea how many voters on both sides get screwed in this fashion..at least it provides a solid excuse if BO loses…he’s got a much, much bigger problem IMO with turnout…he needs to get as busy as that wingnut Ralph Reid…

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Seems like the problem could be solved if they simply required people to produce a state-issued photo id.

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Only keep up could possibly sit there with a straight face and say that the Dems didn’t control Congress in Obama’s first 2 years. And then try and back up that nonsense with a link from that failure of a Dem governor Jennifer Granholm. Hilarious.

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Yep, if Obama doesn’t win, just cry “FOUL!”

If you think the 2000 election was unbearable, I’m afraid we ain’t seen nothin’ yet (if Romney wins by a small margin).

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THULSA,

Great point…ergo, no one can really prove which side is benefitting the most..DEMS with non-citizens or GOP with picking nits…

This crap is as old as…well voting…

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Getting back to the topic I don’t see how you can throw votes out because you were steered to the wrong precinct. I wonder why there was so many mistakes in the precincts?

I think this is a separate issue from Voter ID’s though.

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Doom has a grasp of the obvious? He wants to prosecute dead people?

1st — voter registration does not translate to actual in person voter fraud
2nd — you dont prosecute the “dead” you prosecute the live imposter, but that should have been obvious.
3d — so far, most of the overblown claims of voter registration rolls being in error have in fact been shown to have been faulty in their methodology and actually wrong in reality.

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DDR,

Thats a classic:-) I have a tendancy to fall into same trap at times…I’m going to endeavor to do the same with those who I feel the same about but I submit that not telling them, will result in a bigger rise!

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“The same motivation drives the effort to throw out thousands of ballots cast in the wrong precinct; that problem pops up far more often in urban settings, where precincts are much smaller and lines more confusing, than in suburban and rural areas dominated by Republicans”

Shouldn’t some blame go to those who either can’t, or won’t fix this? If something as simple as a “line” is confusing, there’s something wrong.

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I’m afraid we ain’t seen nothin’ yet (if Romney wins by a small margin).

Funny you should mention…

Probably shouldn’t admit this, but you have no idea how hard I work to suppress the desire for 2012 to be like 2000 or 2004 in reverse, where it’s down to one state, where the voting seems a little fishy (at best) but the GOP is told they just have to suck it up and accept the loss.

[I mean, it’d be really cool if they won the popular vote and lost the EVs, AND some brother of Obama’s happened to be governor of that critical swing state, but that’s asking a bit much.]

And I know wishing for such a thing is wrong on many levels (not the least of which is how it’d bode poorly for Democratic legislative-branch prospects), but man… I’d really like to see how those GOP partisans would cope.

I’d think, not very well, but only time would tell.

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Don’t you folks know rich people lie a lot. Look at Jack Welch. Most of them will lie about anything and make the stupid smucks believe it. Case and point Limburger and his audience.

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Just like their hero Ryan last night, the cons can’t open their mouths without a lie jumping out.

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makes it sound like she’s a back-up singer

Well, it’s a lot better than Angry Black Daughter II: Electric Boogaloo.

(it’s a boy, though, innit? Pretty sure we know this already…)

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sfd: “I’d really like to see how those GOP partisans would cope. ”

Much better than the left – there would be no violence.

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FEDUP,

Rich folks lie alot? I’d like to see some backup to this claim…Does Biden and Obama qualify in your schedule of rich folks or are they pure a snow?

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M. Betty — “Much better than the left – there would be no violence.”

Given what I see on conservative blogs, I seriously doubt your assertion.

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“While expanding GOP-friendly voting by mail, which requires no ID whatsoever.”

well, as we all saw in the Franken / Coleman campaign, there were NO cases of voter fraud in the absentee ballots

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Doom — “So are you saying with certainty that dead voters, multiple voters, and illegal voters have never voted? In any election?”

He’s saying with certainty that the problem is a LOT less than you think it is.

And that the GOP pays no attention whatsoever to the gaping security holes in the vote-by-mail and absentee voting systems.

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Joseph
October 12th, 2012
9:31 am
“I think the much bigger story should be the Obama regime disenfranchising the men and women in the military”

How has Obama disenfranchised military voters?

What makes these Voter ID laws so fishy is they all seem to have been pushed through at the last minute in the obvious hope they couldn’t be stopped before the election.

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Thulsa,

I’m still not convinced that we catch even a remote number of illegal votes…as I’ve asked before (if someone proved me wrong before, please advise) I guess police catch all speeders???

Simply because we have identified only a few actual cases of voter fraud doesn’t mean we have the controls in place to identify all of them..

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Pretty shameful.

In New Mexico they uncovered a tape of a trainer who trains poll workers instructing her trainees on illegal ways to challenge voters.

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Shouldn’t we all just have to show up in person with a voter ID?

Shouldn’t we have mandatory death penalty for faux-naifs on the Internets?

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“He’s saying with certainty that the problem is a LOT less than you think it is.”

Joe Mama,

You mind reading again Joe mama? I never said its a huge problem and I don’t believe it is. In my view its a minor problem but its a problem that can make a difference in a very close, very tight election.

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So the government brain washes young men and women to go off to some far land and fight and die for freedom and democracy. While here at home a major political party leverages their power in every way possible to eliminate their opposition’s votes. One would be better off just to stay here in the U.S. and fight a real cause for democracy and freedom.

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Simply because we have identified only a few actual cases of voter fraud doesn’t mean we have the controls in place to identify all of them..

youse guys should take it up with the Council.

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JAY

You have probably already seen this…hard to wager against this metric…

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2012/01/big-spender-always-wins.html

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Doom — “You mind reading again Joe mama? I never said its a huge problem”

Learn to read, son. I didn’t say that you did. I said that it’s less of a problem than you think it is.

“and I don’t believe it is. In my view its a minor problem”

Good. So it’s even less of a problem than you think it is.

“but its a problem that can make a difference in a very close, very tight election.”

I refer you back to our very first discussion and the notion of the secure national ID. It could just as easily be used for voting purposes..

IMO, we need a comprehensive NATIONAL strategy and plan to deal with the issue if you want elections secure from hijinks.

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Jay,

What do you think about just going low tech and having everyone who votes dip their finger in purple ink as one measure. It wouldn’t solve everything but would maybe quiet many of us on the left and right.

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Jay, I think it’s a mistake not to address the core issue at stake here, which is the very solidity of the constitutionality of the right to vote, namely the fact that there is an attack that is more orchestrated and well-supported than we may want to accept on the “add-on” nature of this particular right post-Civil war.

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Sfd, master of the propaganda and conspiracy theories

I do not wish death upon anyone, so no I hope they never institute a law as you describe because you would be the first to go

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I don’t know what happened in Ohio but I just can’t see why anybody with common sense would be against having to show picture I.D. to vote. Its required to cash a check, apply for a job, get your drivers license, get your auto tag, apply for a loan, open a checking account and on and on. But not required to receive wellfare, I don’t know for sure but don’t think its required to receive food stamps. I’m so tired of hearing “disenfranchised” anytime someone must be required to prove who they are. The only reason one would not want this requirement is so they can CHEAT. I’m in my 70’s and I don’t mind at all showing picture I.D. If a person can’t geta drivers license they should be able to get another picture I.D. There’s too many people in the world that defraud. It would’d stop there anyway. Many people get fake picture I.D.s already.

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S. Ray — “Agreed…are you concerned about latest indicators of much lower turnout for BO among minorities and students than last go around?”

Please, share with me the methods by which observers are claiming to know what Election Day turnout will be. I am very interested in how this is done. Is a groundhog involved?

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I don’t understand the whole filibuster nonsense. Was there ever really a filibuster? Even when the democrats were the ones threatening it, I don’t recall the republicans calling their bluff and making them go through with it. They should go back to old days of having a senator ramble on for 22 – 24 hours to make the filibuster stick.

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Doom — “And of course the next thing they’ll talk about is how unruly and dangerous the rioting tea party rallies were”

That’s strange. I thought the Tea Party folks had been claiming that they weren’t Republicans.

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“Given the sanctity of the vote, how can government officials actively seek to disenfranchise thousands of its citizens in such a fashion?”
.
It’s easy.
See the State of Georgia’s rules/regulations for a third party to get on a ballot.
And every state is like that.
.
And it’s not disenfranchising thousands…………….it millions.
(I doubt that the folks in Ohio are really THAT concerned about voting for the two clowns anyhoo).

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The Grand Old Party of cheaters and losers. Republicans through and through.

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But then again……….they ARE Ohions.

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BIDEN BOORISH BUFOON !

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DDR

You’re still #1 in my book, even with that whole Auburn stuff.

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USinner and southpaw

Thanks!!!

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JHM

We won’t know until right before the umbilical cord is cut.

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Well, it’s a lot better than Angry Black Daughter II: Electric Boogaloo.

I like the sound of that!!!!!!

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As for the nonsense that Brocephus presented about how many cases have been prosecuted its extremely difficult to catch voter fraud in the act.

I have presented more FACT on voter fraud than most any other poster here. Whether you consider it nonsense or not, you haven’t presented a single thing other than assertions to back up your stance.

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” The ‘currency of the honest vote’ is just as important to our democracy.”

of course the difference between counterfeiting and voter fraud is that one is the first is a real problem and the second is a manufactured one.

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Disenfranchise….peleeez

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ohnoes!!!! Chris Wallace needs a fainting couch!

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“Real, that’s addressed in the blogpost above. Voting in the wrong precinct happens much more frequently in high-density urban areas, where the precincts are much smaller and thus more easily confused. It doesn’t affect ONLY Dem voters, but it does affect Dem voters disproportionately.”

I agree. Dem voters are easily confused.

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Doom — “Joe Mama, They are conservatives.”

I’ll keep that in mind next time a TP person here claims that they’re not affiliated with the GOP.

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What happened to the term “GRAVETAUS” {spelling}? All the media was using that term in the last election. I tried to look it up in the dictionary but could not find it. They kill me when someone picks up a word and they all get hooked on it. After the O.J. trial it was “closure”, A few years back sports shows started with “athletizism”. I had never heard that one before. Media people are always accuseing politicians of being out of touch with people. No one is more out of touch with the public than many in the media. Look at Micheal Luckovich, he only sees the shortcommings of Repubs. He completely overlooks the many that his Dems. pals commit. And so it goes.

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Chris Wallace needs a fainting couch!

I’d just seen him last night, prior to the debate, on a CSPAN-aired panel. The douchyness was strong with him then, and I’m delighted to learn that he is upset, this mornin’.

Those Village a-holes know where they can shove their civility and mythical “bi-partisanship.”

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Jay your typo is still there

Oh well

In other news: Sotheby’s is auctioning off the diamond planet around the sun 55 Canceri. DeBeers is in a panic and expected to be the high bidder.

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Girl ridicules Ryan for not standing up for himself to old man Biden

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/12/gretchen-carlson-suggests-ryan-should-just-deck-biden/

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Cheaters never win? Tell that to Al Gore…to John Kerry…to Max Cleland and to Roy Barnes. Republicans look at cheating to win elections the same way they do about ‘the truth’ – namely, that they think that not getting caught in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth. And frankly, lately, even that – getting caught in a lie – doesn’t deter ‘em so why do we think catching ‘em stealing elections would stop ‘em? Until there are real consequences to this crap, they’ll keepin keepin’ on…I say make it a capital offense then line a couple of guilty ones ‘against the wall’ and see how quickly the rest of em come around.

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“Those Village a-holes know where they can shove their civility and mythical “bi-partisanship.””

seriously – their #1 rule for Democrats: no hitting back.

sod that.

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stands for decibels,

I’ll take crimson ink please.

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fox news was hilarious last night.

I have not seen them that angry since they lost the the election.

Stayed up late on drudge links too but cnn shut down their comments because their performance on this debate was just the worst I have seen. cnn proved they are fox news.

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SfD — “I’d just seen him last night, prior to the debate, on a CSPAN-aired panel. The douchyness was strong with him then, and I’m delighted to learn that he is upset, this mornin’. Those Village a-holes know where they can shove their civility and mythical “bi-partisanship.”

Joe Scarborough led off with baseball this morning, leading Mika to comment that he apparently feels that Ryan got his bohunkus handed to him last night. Whenever there’s good news for Republicans, Joe leads with it. Whenever there’s bad news for them, Joe finds something else to start the show with.

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“Ahhh, Doom again declares victory and backs out the door clucking all the way…”

Sorry keep. Not everybody has all day long to blog every day. I take it bidness is slow for ya. Doesn’t surprise me in the least that your clientele book is small.

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“Joe Scarborough led off with baseball this morning, leading Mika to comment that he apparently feels that Ryan got his bohunkus handed to him last night”

I posted this downstairs, but it bears repeating:

“One more thing–for what it is worth, Sarah Palin did a much better job against Joe Biden in 2008 than Paul Ryan did tonight. Bizarre, but true.”

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/10/the-veep-debate-how-did-it-go-a-poll.php

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Voter fraud is a particular problem among millionaire Marta drivers. A vast majority of them vote numerous times and in many precincts.

I’m looking for a link.

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Like VP Joe Biden, I am sick of gop and media insulting my intelligence and disrespecting me with blatant lies. Vice President Joe Biden is my hero for calling it what it is. Malarkey.

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Sorry keep. Not everybody has all day long to blog every day. I take it bidness is slow for ya. Doesn’t surprise me in the least that your clientele book is small.

That Doom sure do have time to post on a variety of things all morning but not to back his lies….and then time to throw in a personal insult without a shred of evidence. So much for that “new improved” Doom that was promised, a return to the self-proclaimed pompous Doom.

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http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/timesbay-news-9herald-exclusive-florida-poll-romney-51-obama-44/1255882

Um. Wow.

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I really hope that it won’t be that close either way. It will be terrible for the country to go down that road again, especially at this time.

Fully agreed; it’s only the nasty, vindictive streak in me (that, like I said, I have to work to keep at bay, at times–doesn’t everyone?) that ever thinks otherwise.

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“But aren’t secure and reliable elections something that would be *worth* spending some money on?”

Not when there’s no proof they aren’t ALREADY fair and reliable. It’s “fixing” a problem that doesn’t exist.

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Keep

Thanks!!

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S. Ray — “JOE, Good question about turnout..seems once again based on polls indicating enthusiasm…Here are the two most interesting articles I surfaced..”

FWIW, I actually had already read those two. Good choices.

But they speak to get-out-the-vote efforts only among certain supportive voter blocs. They don’t actually make quantitative *predictions* (either in raw number or in percentages) of what the actual turnout numbers will be,

This is the crux of my gripe with Rasmussen — they actually come up with a NUMBER that they believe represents what turnout will be on Election Day (it went behind a paywall over the summer so you can’t read about it on their site for free any more), and then they apply that number to their ACTUAL poll results.

They call it ‘weighting.’ Since the ‘weight’ number is nothing but fantasy on their part, I call it ‘fudging.’

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See the similarity?

“I see”, said the blind man.

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JOE,

The good thing about Rasmussen is that they appear to be the only one that weighs voter turnout on a blend of 2000, 2004 and 2008…the others generally assume 2008 turnouts…so I believe all polls include an assumption of turnout with most defaulting to 2008 levels that appear not likely to be the case..

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“I don’t know if you’re familiar with the absentee voting system, but IMO that is *rife* with opportunities for fraudulent voting.”

Ok, then address THAT problem. I see no need to go to the trouble and expense of making EVERYONE get some sort of “secure” ID (there’s no such thing, even tattoos can be faked) when the possiblity of fraud exists in only a tiny segment of the voting population.

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Hilarious compilation of Biden’s shining moments….

http://youtu.be/UFZeUcVgnN4 via fincherstew.com

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S. Ray — “The good thing about Rasmussen is that they appear to be the only one that weighs voter turnout on a blend of 2000, 2004 and 2008…”

Why’s that a good thing?

Seriously, I’ve got a pretty strong background in statistics, and I don’t see that as a positive at all.

“the others generally assume 2008 turnouts…”

If you’ve properly randomized your selection protocol across your survey population, then weighting is unnecessary if you select a large enough sample. IMO, national surveys of any kind (including elections) aren’t worth a lot of attention unless their margin of error is +/- 3.0 or less. FWIW, applying weights to the results *increases* that MOE, because you’re assuming that something you didn’t account for in the selection protocol threw the results off.

First question from a Stats 101 student — then why didn’t you fix the selection protocol instead of working that bogus fudge factor in?

“so I believe all polls include an assumption of turnout with most defaulting to 2008 levels that appear not likely to be the case..”

I don’t think that *anyone* can predict turnout with any accuracy whatsoever. Particularly so now that early voting is becoming widespread.

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“Joe, absentee voting and electronic machine voting are 2 of the biggest potential areas for fraud”

Yes, indeed…and in electronic voting a photo ID would do NOTHING to eliminate that possible voting fraud.

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I see no need to go to the trouble and expense of making EVERYONE get some sort of “secure” ID…

I don’t see that happening as the cost would be enormous and heads would explode over that.

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“I don’t see that happening as the cost would be enormous and heads would explode over that.”

Well, the GOP is doing their damndest to see that it DOES happen…they just don’t want to have to pay for it.

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Don’t you guys read what I said. Jack Welch, Koch brothers Goldman Sachs CEO and Marie Anttonate (wrong spelling) type of people. There are good rich folks like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates who give away their fortune to help the needy. That tells you throwing money at a problem help solve it. If that was wrong Buffet, Gates and others would not donate their huge fortune.
A lot of rich people lie e.g. Limbaugh, Hannity, OReilly, CEOs of the cigarrete companies (lied in the congressional hearing). How about the folks got caught in the Swiss bank account hidding their fortune. That is the unpatriotic lies. Same goes for Mitt and his overseas savings. HE LIED.

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The biggest threat of voter fraud lies in the use of caging lists, turdblossom’s go-to tactic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyO_9pbBwqU&feature=related

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KUTGF — “Joe, absentee voting and electronic machine voting are 2 of the biggest potential areas for fraud. Without paper ballots its hard to recount. And the electronic voting system programs have been shown to have a variety of programming issues.”

FWIW, I’m more aimed at the voter validation issue, not the actual integrity of the vote data itself. But I agree that today’s electronic voting systems have issues and should be fixed.

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All elections should be held
open polls 24 hours a day
for 7 days and still provide
absentee ballots. Nothing
else.

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K’Chak — “I don’t see that happening as the cost would be enormous and heads would explode over that.”

Well, I’m getting more and more conservatives here to agree that my idea’s better than anything they’ve got (Doom even agreed a little while ago).

So help me sharpen up this idea into something workable, whydontcha?

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“Just last week, it blocked changes made to Ohio’s early voting rules that allowed some military voters to cast ballots in the three days before Election Day while barring nonmilitary voters from doing the same”

Speaking of subterfuge! So those serving overseas should not get extra time for their votes to get back to the districts for counting because those poor little Ohioians cannot make it during normal voting days because of……..1. Opray was on. 2. It was tailgate night before the game. 3. My mother got sick. 3. My grandmother died. 4. My car wouldnt start. 5. My ride didnt show up. 6. I lost track of time.

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ID requirements = bad

But if you’re wanting to get into the Democratic National Convention (or just walk on the sidewalk in the general vicinity minding your own business), THEN ID requirements = good.

The hypocrisy is thick today.

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A letter from a military
person indicating their
vote should be sufficient
to the County Elections
Supervisor.

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“1) You’re creating two parallel voting systems with different levels of security. IMO, that’s already the problem we have.”

I’ll tell you what…there really isn’t any way to protect the absenteed ballot from fraud, except by doing away with it. The problem is that voting is secret. There is no way to tie a person’s name to their vote. ANY idea you can come up with to “protect” the absentee vote is going to give you a way to do just that: tie a person’s name to their vote. If we’re going to continue to have absentee voting, we’re going to have to live with the possiblity of fraud.

“2) People who don’t have the IDs ahead of time (who think they won’t ever need them) would be disenfranchised if they experienced some sort of emergency during the election (e.g. hospitalization, death in the family requiring travel, etc).”

You can’t vote NOW without some kind of ID. And there’s no way to insulate the voter or the voting system from the exigencies of life. Sometimes people just can’t vote. That’s the way it is.

“I’m not trying to nitpick — I’m trying to come up with something that covers all bases. Maybe you can help me think up refinements and improvements to my idea”

Not really. What I have is a different idea: have a mandate early voting period of, say, 30 days and do away with the absentee vote altogether. Anyone who thinks they might not be able to vote on voting day can vote early and get it over with.

As I said above, I can’t think of any way to protect the absentee vote without ALSO being able to tie that vote to someone’s name.

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“Early voting should only be allowed if the voter has a valid reason”

And who is going to judge the “validity” of that reason? The poll workers? A judge? The state elections board? Who?

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Speaking of subterfuge! So those serving overseas should not get extra time for their votes to get back to the districts for counting because those poor little Ohioians cannot make it during normal voting days

You do subterfuge quite well. Attempting to conflate ABSENTEE voting with IN-PERSON early voting. You should be a politician.

http://www.disabilityrightsohio.org/vote-early

What to do when you get your absentee ballot in the mail

The completed absentee ballot may also be delivered in person by the voter or an eligible family member (spouse, father, mother, father-in-law, mother-in-law, grandfather, grandmother, brother, or sister of the whole or half blood, or the son, daughter, adopting parent, adopted child, stepparent, stepchild, uncle, aunt, nephew, or niece of the voter) to the county board of elections no later than 7:30 pm on Election Day.

That part of Ohio’s voting laws did not change. Ohio tried to give military extra “in-person” days to vote that they did not extend to everyone else. There has to be equal access to the ballot, and Ohio’s GOP got caught trying to screw America.

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Doggone — “The problem is that voting is secret. There is no way to tie a person’s name to their vote. ANY idea you can come up with to “protect” the absentee vote is going to give you a way to do just that: tie a person’s name to their vote.”

Actually, there is. Multi-factor authentication; multiple linked passcodes. I use that method when I have to work from home; I actually use a *series* of validation measures, each of which lets me a little farther into the system until I’ve completed the validation process and have complete access. The problem is that something like that would be far too complicated for some voters, so it’s not workable for voting.

“If we’re going to continue to have absentee voting, we’re going to have to live with the possiblity of fraud.”

Actually, a week or two ago, I proposed a scenario that would address just that. May I tell you about it?

“You can’t vote NOW without some kind of ID.”

You can vote provisionally without ID. The provisional ballot gives you a little time to go *get* the ID you need for you vote to be counted.

“And there’s no way to insulate the voter or the voting system from the exigencies of life. Sometimes people just can’t vote. That’s the way it is.”

I disagree on this count. Again, the scenario I articulated a week or two ago points directly to this sort of thing.

“Not really. What I have is a different idea: have a mandate early voting period of, say, 30 days and do away with the absentee vote altogether. Anyone who thinks they might not be able to vote on voting day can vote early and get it over with.”

I would be totally in favor of this, especially if there were night and weekend hours as another poster proposed.

“As I said above, I can’t think of any way to protect the absentee vote without ALSO being able to tie that vote to someone’s name.”

I think I have something for that, though it hinges on my secure ID idea.

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Well they stoop to lying, why should disenfranchising voters surprise anyone? These are the Watergate boys, Agnew heirs, like Biden said last night, these guys have not been too hot on Medicare from the beginning. Who you going to trust? Use you common sense, when a guy in a white robe stops to offer a minority a ride out of the kindness of his heart, why would you want to get in.

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Oops, I meant in 2008 all but 20% of military votes were NOT counted. Anyway, it’s an outrage that Democrats practice military vote suppression and violate the Federal law to do it…and then rant about voter ID…which is fundamental to protect those of us who are citizens from having our vote stolen or marginalized by the illegal voter.

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Obama still needs to explain WHY this crap about some Internet video was fed to the American people.

http://heisanevilgenius.pbworks.com/f/SF1978_1×02_Deflectorshield.gif

And what in Hades does that have to do with voter suppression other than a lame attempt at deflecting the thread.

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Biden also reminded the voter the next guy in the Whitehouse picks probably two Supreme Court judges. Romney says I haven’t got any abortion issues on the front burner for legislature. If that is the case he is now using unelected judges to write law. Legal abortion will be overturned if Romney is elected.

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“And what in Hades does that have to do with voter suppression other than a lame attempt at deflecting the thread. ”

Because those who would not have voted might vote now because of the lies.

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Doggone — “but you still have to provide ID for your vote to count. As I said you can’t vote now without an ID. You can fill out a ballot, but it’s not a VOTE until you’ve identified yourself as a valid voter.”

Fair enough. I see your point.

“but, again, having a secure ID (and there’s really no such thing anyway)”

There is, but not not a secure ID method that’s simple enough that it would be workable for voting purposes.

“for EVERYONE is “fixing” a problem that doesn’t exist in big enough numbers to matter. And it would be easier and cheaper to just eliminate absentee voting and provide a way to vote in person instead.”

There’s another problem that I’m aiming to fix with my idea that’s in addition to ensuring that only authorized people vote. And that’s reducing or eliminating the opportunity for fraud in the vote data stream. Whether it’s actual, physical ballots or electronic data, broadening the vote window doesn’t do anything for that.

“And no matter WHAT you do, or what scenario you present, you are NEVER going to come up with a system that allows everyone to vote regardless of circumstances.”

Shrug. I’ll do the best I can.

“The best we can every hope for is that it is as easy as is POSSIBLE for the most people to vote.”

Again, I’m not opposed to a long window for voting (I do like the idea), but from a political standpoint, I think you’re still going to have problems getting the other side to agree and I think you’ll still have problems with them trying to deny people their opportunity to vote. IMO, the best way to approach this is by allowing both sides to address some of the issues they have with the process.

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Interesting take on debate…missed opportunities by both…BS by both…and ideologically blinded journalists..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/12/raddatz-debate-objectivity

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“That part of Ohio’s voting laws did not change. Ohio tried to give military extra “in-person” days to vote that they did not extend to everyone else.”

Many warfighters train during the week and for one or two weeks at the end of a quarter. Many then spend one month in the field once a year. I see Bro missed a point.

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Occupation: So how are you going to defend a sanctity on which there is no foundation in our political system?

At first I was a bit stunned that you said that – but then I looked at your comment and saw the caveat “Political System” and I’m trying to better understand your synopsis.

As you know, I hope, the right to vote is part of our CONSTITUTION – as far as the political system, the political part means next to nothing when compared to our Constitution. Political parties and loyalties will come and go; but our whole basis of government is founded upon our constitution.

Below is a brief synopsis of how we got here from there:

(a) The Constitution created a bicameral Congress – the number of representatives for each state would be based on population and two senators would be chosen from each state. Representatives would be popularly elected. The state legislatures would have responsibility for electing senators (which lasted until 1913). Direct election of the president and vice president sparked contentious debate. The convention settled on the Electoral College – delegates elected by the state legislatures who would reflect the popular vote in their state, a device which would help non-regional candidates. (1787)

(b) 15th Ammendment gave black men the right to vote. (ratified in 1870)

(c) 19th Ammendment gave women the right to vote (ratified 1918).

(d) Civil Rights Act Passed in 1964.

=================================================

Darwin: So the government brain washes young men and women to go off to some far land and fight and die for freedom and democracy. While here at home a major political party leverages their power in every way possible to eliminate their opposition’s votes. One would be better off just to stay here in the U.S. and fight a real cause for democracy and freedom.

Exactly. Elegantly stated. Thanks.

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Because those who would not have voted might vote now because of the lies.

And I bet you believe that stupid crap that you just spewed too, huh???

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Many warfighters train during the week and for one or two weeks at the end of a quarter. Many then spend one month in the field once a year. I see Bro missed a point.

I didn’t miss anything. Why should any one group have more access to the ballot than anybody else? Ohio’s early voting is long enough that if they spend two weeks in Timbuktu, they still have time to vote early if they choose to do so. Keep trying to validate that stupid stuff though. I seriously hope that some of y’all that back this stupid sh*t would get a taste of your own medicine.

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When they change my polling place here in Georgia, the poll worker simply tells me that I am at the wrong place and refuses to let me vote. I have to drive to the correct precinct. I don’t understand why they would even allow them to vote at the wrong precinct? It seems this would render this problem null and void.

Poll workers dont always get it right.

Thats not the fault of the voter.

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Gee, bro, if we all just get in line, all will be we’ll… Says the guy at the cattle car door with a rifle…

The story needs to be told and if the MSM is going to shove it under the rug to protect Obama, we’ll have to keep pushing by whatever means are necessary.

I tell you what though, since i cant ask obama, what is your opinion of why Obama pushed this BS on the people in the wake of a terrorist attack on his watch?

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Speaking of “suppression”, it seems the NAACP is unhappy with not allowing convicted felons to vote:

Dennis Gaddy, the group’s criminal justice chair for North Carolina, noted he had been incarcerated in his youth, but went on to improve his life. “Americans who have served their time must have their full citizenship rights restored,” Gaddy said in a statement.

I suppose Gaddy is OK with letting convicted felons have access to guns then?

Note to NAACP: If you violate someone else’s rights, you lose your own. That’s how it should be.

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And what in Hades does that have to do with voter suppression other than a lame attempt at deflecting the thread.

Bros, RB cried ran with this same stuff yesterday morning. He apparently has some exoskeleton life form crawling up his backside about Darryl Issa’s Very Important Hearing on “When Did We Not Think it Was A YouTube Thang” not getting sufficient coverage in the AJC.

Because apparently it is the solemn duty of regional newspapers to put congressional hearing news on their homepages at all times.

(of course, my links to a brief AJC.com news piece AND an AJC.com Jamie Dupree column on that very topic, somehow, didn’t count.)

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…and the “N####r Prisoners ravishing your daughters allowed to VOTE” card is played.

Stay classy, Yellow Snake-sticker Guy.

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RB

I see you’re your usual self today. A bright ray of sunshine indeed. I simply asked what did your question have to do with the topic. I never stated you COULDN’T or SHOULDN’T ask Obama. Asking Jay or any of us won’t get an answer from Obama. You’re basically doing the equivalent of pissing into the wind of a Cat 5 Hurricane and trying to stay dry.

Since you want to know what I think, I think the story was based on what was known at the time. As more information became corroborated, then the story changed to what was known. Unlike some of y’all scaredy cats, some people don’t see terrorist acts when somebody get’s a splinter in their finger. I deal with enough terrorist related issues on a daily basis that I don’t jump to conclusions without having facts to support them.

I’m guessing you have some type of terrorism intelligence related business since you seem to know more than the experts in this case. I love to listen to y’all “so-called” experts talk about stuff that you have little to no knowledge about other than what’s fed to you by the media.

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” IMO, the best way to approach this is by allowing both sides to address some of the issues they have with the process.”

And how do you propose to “fix” an issue they SAY if about voter fraud, but which is REALLY about WHO some voters are voting for.

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Unlike some of y’all scaredy cats, some people don’t see terrorist acts when somebody get’s a splinter in their finger.

oooh! ooooh! you just likened the death of our Ambassador to a splinter! I’m telling Teacher!

/wingnut

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“Anyway, it’s an outrage that Democrats practice military vote suppression and violate the Federal law to do it…”

A scary look into the mind of a con.

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Redneck: And I think this DebbieDoEverybody ought to stop picking on Thelma Doom. Somebody’s got to be born in Alabama and it might as well be Thelma. If nobody was born there then nobody would live there and the rest of the states would have to take up the slack and take in a whole bunch of ignorant people.

Too funny!!! I burst out laughing when I read that!! The guy who is next to me, came over to see what was so funny! I told him I was looking at porn – pictures of a naked Kermit the Frog. He lost interest after that.

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Stands, “(of course, my links to a brief AJC.com news piece AND an AJC.com Jamie Dupree column on that very topic, somehow, didn’t count.)”

You posted a link to a photo with no news story and a link to a blog posting by an opinion writer. Are you seriously claiming that counts as coverage of a story important enough for there to have been congressional hearings following a terrorist attack on our country and the administrations intentional pushing of some Youtube video to divert responsibility for it?

Seriously, is there ANYTHING this administration could do that would stop you from licking their boots? ANYTHING?

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“Americans who have served their time must have their full citizenship rights restored,” Gaddy said in a statement.

Why should somebody who’s served their time not be allowed to vote? Isn’t the goal to have them become a “productive” member of society? Once they complete their entire sentence, have they not served their punishment in full?

I support that 100% that people should have their voting rights restored automatically once they complete their sentence. The one exception would be someone convicted of voter fraud (h/t Doggone).

—————————

dB

And I bet he didn’t say a damned thing about Issa outing the CIA did he?

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Miichael — “Paul Ryan is under consideration for the Nobel prize in circular reasoning”

Can such things be?

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D. Tread — “Speaking of “suppression”, it seems the NAACP is unhappy with not allowing convicted felons to vote”

Way to bury the lead and misrepresent the story, Champ.

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rb

What is it that you want to know that isn’t known? Wasb’t the muslim street up in arms about a movie mocking islam during that exact time frame? So, it was a terrorist attack, what to do about it now, catch the perpetrators I would think. Turn on the atlanta news tonight or come to orlando or miami and tell me how many murders occur daily. You just want an issue to blame obama, were you asking the same questions after 9-11 or were you asking us to all pull together???

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Doggone/GA 11:06
Money spent providing
access to the voting process
would be better spent than
money spent on just about
anything else, so yes I
would.

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getalife

You’re right in that it differs from state to state. Some make it harder than others. Florida recently went from automatic restoration upon completion of sentence to having to wait up to 7 years just to file a petition to have voting rights restored.

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and seriously, about the Consulate attack–my only real interest is in knowing exactly why the Ambassador wasn’t in a secure location, as would’ve been afforded to him at the Embassy in Tripoli, against which RPGs would’ve been useless.

RB, you’re the expert–how much time did Darryl “Can’t Find My Own Ass with Both Hands” Issa spend on that, do you happen to know?

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DebbieDo
Kermit pales in comparison
to me naked….
http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_NC/anurans/Hylgra/Hyl_gra.htmlu

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Bro,

I believe in making it easier to vote not harder.

I believe in election reform to get the unlimited bribes out of the process.

Make it shorter and cheaper.

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WillheBblind: Speaking of subterfuge! So those serving overseas should not get extra time for their votes to get back to the districts for counting because those poor little Ohioians cannot make it during normal voting days

Willhe: Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Just asking…..

FinnCool @ 11:01 – that’s freaking AMAZING!

RB: Obama still needs to explain WHY this crap about some Internet video was fed to the American people.

RB – please look at today’s topic of conversation. Try to focus please. Thank you.

Jhunt: Guess I missed that part in the constitution. States have cast a slate of electors in the past without a popular vote.

Proof? Please. 

DT: I suppose Gaddy is OK with letting convicted felons have access to guns then?
Note to NAACP: If you violate someone else’s rights, you lose your own. That’s how it should be.

Sigh – DT – if you’ve done your time and are supposedly REHABILITATED; and have been on the narrow path to being a good and abiding citizen, then WHY can’t you get your rights back?

What about people who were convicted of nothing more than being a drug addict and didn’t harm or violate anyone else’s rights? Are they no longer able to get back their right to vote too? What’s the point of being rehabilitated if you’ll never enjoy the fruits of all your had work? And it IS hard work to go through that process.

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I love my local voting precinct. Even though I live in the city with my fellow pagans its in a church gym and the ladies running it are fabulous. I also get to walk there. Love the eav. Oh and I have the venerable john Lewis. Who you got?

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rb,

Your party outed the CIA facility there and shut down their hearing because of it.

The CIA lies silly.

You should know that by now.

You are not new to politics.

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Well, long as people are out looking for giant eyeballs it might be a good time for some of the men on this blog to make a little money but doing some browsing on the innernet tubes:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/12/danish-website-holding-smallest-penis-contest/

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Frog: DebbieDo
Kermit pales in comparison
to me naked…

Tried to open your link, (I’m a work), luckily for me, the server at the job is MUCH more smarter than me!

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It was well known that he liked to “work the streets” and interact with the ordinary people.

I know. I also know that he was beloved by many of the locals, and that they were/are furious at what happened at the consulate. Still, on the 9/11 anniversary, it’s troubling that he didn’t stay in a more secure location.

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Mick, “What is it that you want to know that isn’t known? Wasb’t the muslim street up in arms about a movie mocking islam during that exact time frame? So, it was a terrorist attack, what to do about it now, catch the perpetrators I would think. Turn on the atlanta news tonight or come to orlando or miami and tell me how many murders occur daily. You just want an issue to blame obama, were you asking the same questions after 9-11 or were you asking us to all pull together???”

I’ll bet that one used up an entire tube of Chapstick!! Keep kissing it Mick.

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I know
you are disappointed…

so true…….

Redneck – You .Are. So. Bad! But i like it!

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rb

What’s the matter? Too difficult to THINK an issue through? No, just go for the cheap shot – you’re an expert in that area…

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“Still, on the 9/11 anniversary, it’s troubling that he didn’t stay in a more secure location”

And maybe he knew about the affection of the people towards him and did not consider it neccessary. All we can do is guess.

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getalife

I think the secondary site where they fled to after the initial attack was the one that’s the “Shhhh… don’t tell anybody” site.

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Bro,

Forgot about the second location.

Thanks for reminding me.

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I think the gop knew the CIA was involved but held their political hearing anyway.

This is very reckless and unAmerican but they know they will not be held accountable so they are out of control.

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Your right, bro, continuing to push the BS video story on national tv a week later must have been a tactic to help us catch terrorists half a world away. We wouldn’t want them to know we had video of them attacking our consulate. I’m sure they didn’t know we had cameras there. Pour yourself another tall glass of Koolaid, bro!

Geez….

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SHEETS!

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DDR

Jhunt: Guess I missed that part in the constitution. States have cast a slate of electors in the past without a popular vote.

Proof? Please. 

Constitutionally, the manner for choosing electors is determined within each state by its legislature. During the first presidential election in 1789, only 6 of the 13 original states chose electors by any form of popular vote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

However, our Constitution only provides for nondiscrimination in voting on the basis of race, sex, and age in the 15th, 19th and 26th Amendments respectively. The U.S. Constitution contains no explicit right to vote!

http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=12581

“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.” Notice it is missing the tag line you added: delegates elected by the state legislatures who would reflect the popular vote in their state.

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I think the gop knew the CIA was involved but held their political hearing anyway.

Chaffetz just returned from Libya not too long ago, and he was briefed on the situation over there. He stated as much in his outing the CIA.

—————————

Your right, bro, continuing to push the BS video story on national tv a week later must have been a tactic to help us catch terrorists half a world away.

Dude, are you purposefully obtuse or are you seriously such a dumbass??? Did you not understand the English I posted on the previous page???

Brosephus™
October 12th, 2012
12:02 pm

“I don’t know what Obama’s reason was for going on Letterman”

Damn, you would think a business owner would be capable of reading and understanding basic English. However, in your case, someone has to prove the exception to the rule.

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Doggone — “But you can’t guarantee that the data so securely transmitted was actually what the voter chose, or that what was received matches what the machinary at the other end recorded.”

Sure you can. There are secure-hash data packets that can be interspersed throughout the data stream to prove that the data hasn’t been tampered with.

“There’s no such thing as TRULY secure transmission. Heck, even government transmissions have been hacked. And so have phone line tranmssions. And just so you’ll know, I worked for the phone system for over 30 years.”

Just so you’ll know, I worked in communications and communication security for the Army. I was also tapped for the White House Communications Agency, but I decided not to pursue it. Ask yourself this — you ever hear of the President or Vice President getting their secure comms hacked while they were on a state visit or overseas trip?

Yeah, you CAN secure data quite well; it’s difficult and costly, but it can be done. FWIW, most people and organizations don’t put anywhere near the amount of resources in it that are required to truly lock it down. But the *government* could.

“but if you can’t verify to the voter that his vote was recorded, transmitted, and again recorded as he cast it…you have an insecure system, no matter how many protections you think you have.”

I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. It *can* be done. I can give you some specifics if you want.

“Yes, secure systems can be devised…but if they seriously impact the voting experience, then you have…by fiat…suppressed some of the vote.”

What exactly are you talking about here? Most of the security would be invisible to the end user. I’ve set up secure commo for generals; the fact that they had no idea how much or what type of COMSEC we had set up in no way detracted from their ability to receive information and issue orders to subordinate units.

“Florida did not use paper ballots. They used punch card ballots that were counted by machine.”

Respectfully, ma’am, you’re splitting hairs here. Cardstock is just thicker paper, and they had humans involved in *exactly* the way you say you want them to be involved.

“If I had it in MY power I would take machines out of the equation ENTIRELY, once the ballots are printed. The voter has to fill them out with a pen or pencil, and they have to be counted by a person. No machines involved at all.”

Again, FL 2000. Didn’t work well at all.

“Then I would say…again…eliminate it entirely. Make it as easy as possible to vote early and then it’s up to the voter.”

Don’t you think you’re potentially disenfranchising poor, elderly and sick voters here?

“The way I see it the issue is disenfranchisment, right? If you make it as easy as possible to vote in person but someone can’t vote because of life circumstances or problems, that’s the voter’s issue. But if the system itself disenfranchises the voter…then it’s an issue for ALL of us.”

I’m afraid I have to differ with you here. When you say “that’s the voter’s issue,” that sounds to me like a Republican saying ‘get an ID or fuggoff, Grandma.’ And I can’t side with that.

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Will someone mop up after Righty, please?

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Its getting late. 9pm is my bed time. Everybody just shut up so I can get some sleep. i’m gonna dream about that big broad smile of O’bama’s and his moma’.

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Mitt may have a plan to win, even if he doesn’t win outright (follow the link below):
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Will-Ohio-s-H-I-G-Owned-E-by-Bob-Fitrakis-121012-282.html

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[...] is the GOP suppressing voters in Ohio? Ohio voter-suppression laws give GOP’s game away | Jay Bookman Tell me why the GOP thinks they can get away with this? __________________ "Push yourself [...]

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[...] is amazing; expected, but amazing in its blatancy nonetheless. Jay Bookman has summed it up nicely here Quote: [...] There can be no justification for such efforts, and the Ohio example gives the [...]

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