Ohio voter-suppression laws give GOP’s game away
There’s just something fundamentally wrong and, well, unAmerican about this.
A federal appeals court in Cincinnati today decided two cases related to Ohio’s provisional voting procedures, ruling that it is unconstitutional to toss out ballots that are cast in the incorrect voting precinct due to poll-worker error.
Ohio law “effectively requires voters to have a greater knowledge of their precinct, precinct ballot, and polling place than poll workers,” the three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit said.
Ohioans cast 200,000 provisional ballots in the 2008 elections, and 14,000 of those were rejected for being cast in the wrong precinct. Given that the state increasingly uses polling locations that serve voters from more than one precinct and that 13 different classes of voters are required to use provisional ballots, the reality exists that “thousands” of ballots would be tossed out “where the voter’s only mistake was relying on the poll-worker’s precinct guidance,” the judges said.
“This is the most important decision in this election cycle,” election law expert Rick Hasen wrote on the “Election Law Blog.”
It is the second time in as many weeks that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit has ruled against Ohio in election-related cases.
Just last week, it blocked changes made to Ohio’s early voting rules that allowed some military voters to cast ballots in the three days before Election Day while barring nonmilitary voters from doing the same. Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted (R) has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to grant an emergency stay in that case until the court can hear the state’s appeal.
Given the sanctity of the vote, how can government officials actively seek to disenfranchise thousands of its citizens in such a fashion? It’s unconscionable.
In the Ohio case, the effort is being championed by a Republican attorney general and Republican secretary of state. “Clearly, Republicans want to limit last-minute early voting, which in 2008 was most heavily used by less-affluent, minority voters,” the Cleveland Plain Dealer points out. The same motivation drives the effort to throw out thousands of ballots cast in the wrong precinct; that problem pops up far more often in urban settings, where precincts are much smaller and lines more confusing, than in suburban and rural areas dominated by Republicans.
There can be no justification for such efforts, and the Ohio example gives the larger GOP game away. They are engaged in a shamelessly partisan effort to deny the ballot to eligible, legitimate voters, and if you have to stoop to tactics like that to win, in a sense you have already lost.
– Jay Bookman
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329 comments Add your comment
Jay
October 12th, 2012
10:00 am
It is also a fact that requiring photo ID does nothing to prevent non-citizens from voting. A drivers’ license does not contain any information about the citizenship status of its holder, so that’s just a dumb argument from the get-go.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 12th, 2012
10:01 am
JAY,
Agreed…are you concerned about latest indicators of much lower turnout for BO among minorities and students than last go around? Also, given the idea that 94% of elections go to the bigger spender, I can’t seem to find out who, at the end of the day will spend more..
stands for decibels
October 12th, 2012
10:01 am
Simply because we have identified only a few actual cases of voter fraud doesn’t mean we have the controls in place to identify all of them..
youse guys should take it up with the Council.
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:02 am
“Given what I see on conservative blogs, I seriously doubt your assertion.”
And of course the next thing they’ll talk about is how unruly and dangerous the rioting tea party rallies were and how civilized, orderly, clean, and nice those OWS folks were. Fun- Knee!
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 12th, 2012
10:03 am
JAY
You have probably already seen this…hard to wager against this metric…
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2012/01/big-spender-always-wins.html
Mick
October 12th, 2012
10:03 am
doom
The dems might have controlled congress but the republican minority in the senate controlled the filibuster – at historic levels. Deny that wasn’t a factor and I’ll call blinded…
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:04 am
Doom — “You mind reading again Joe mama? I never said its a huge problem”
Learn to read, son. I didn’t say that you did. I said that it’s less of a problem than you think it is.
“and I don’t believe it is. In my view its a minor problem”
Good. So it’s even less of a problem than you think it is.
“but its a problem that can make a difference in a very close, very tight election.”
I refer you back to our very first discussion and the notion of the secure national ID. It could just as easily be used for voting purposes..
IMO, we need a comprehensive NATIONAL strategy and plan to deal with the issue if you want elections secure from hijinks.
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
October 12th, 2012
10:04 am
The CONS want to suppress minorities , women , gays, the poor . This has been happening for decades… 4 more for 44..
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:05 am
Jay,
What do you think about just going low tech and having everyone who votes dip their finger in purple ink as one measure. It wouldn’t solve everything but would maybe quiet many of us on the left and right.
Greg
October 12th, 2012
10:05 am
Simple solution but it doesn’t benefit either side at the expense of the other, so it has no hope of being implemented. State issued ID, polls opened for 2 weeks (7 days a week, even Sunday, blue laws or not). No absentee ballots with an exception for military personnel deployed overseas. If you can’t find time to vote in that two week window, that is on you not me.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 12th, 2012
10:06 am
Jay, I think it’s a mistake not to address the core issue at stake here, which is the very solidity of the constitutionality of the right to vote, namely the fact that there is an attack that is more orchestrated and well-supported than we may want to accept on the “add-on” nature of this particular right post-Civil war.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 12th, 2012
10:06 am
“The Secret Service spends a lot of time and effort ensuring that our currency is genuine and not counterfeit. Otherwise, public confidence in our currency would deteriorate. The ‘currency of the honest vote’ is just as important to our democracy.”
Jm
October 12th, 2012
10:07 am
Sfd, master of the propaganda and conspiracy theories
I do not wish death upon anyone, so no I hope they never institute a law as you describe because you would be the first to go
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:07 am
“I refer you back to our very first discussion and the notion of the secure national ID. It could just as easily be used for voting purposes..”
Joe Mama,
Yes. That could quite possibly solve the problem. Unfortunately it seems Orwellian enough to be opposed by privacy advocates both on the right and the left.
nobodyyouknow
October 12th, 2012
10:07 am
I don’t know what happened in Ohio but I just can’t see why anybody with common sense would be against having to show picture I.D. to vote. Its required to cash a check, apply for a job, get your drivers license, get your auto tag, apply for a loan, open a checking account and on and on. But not required to receive wellfare, I don’t know for sure but don’t think its required to receive food stamps. I’m so tired of hearing “disenfranchised” anytime someone must be required to prove who they are. The only reason one would not want this requirement is so they can CHEAT. I’m in my 70’s and I don’t mind at all showing picture I.D. If a person can’t geta drivers license they should be able to get another picture I.D. There’s too many people in the world that defraud. It would’d stop there anyway. Many people get fake picture I.D.s already.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 12th, 2012
10:08 am
CHRIS WALLACE: “I’ve Never Seen A Candidate As Disrespectful As Joe Biden Was Tonight”
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-wallace-joe-biden-debate-reaction-smiling-smirking-laughing-2012-10#ixzz295sEZJlz
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:08 am
S. Ray — “Agreed…are you concerned about latest indicators of much lower turnout for BO among minorities and students than last go around?”
Please, share with me the methods by which observers are claiming to know what Election Day turnout will be. I am very interested in how this is done. Is a groundhog involved?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 12th, 2012
10:08 am
Simply because we have identified only a few actual cases of voter fraud doesn’t mean we have the controls in place to identify all of them..
Stevie, I think you misunderstand. I dont believe anyone is against a secure vote but not at the cost of disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of legitimate votes and not when there are many other ways that the more likely and serious voter fraud issues may be occuring.
Again, I dont think anyone has addressed how changing the early voting system in Ohio addresses voter fraud.
Greg
October 12th, 2012
10:09 am
I don’t understand the whole filibuster nonsense. Was there ever really a filibuster? Even when the democrats were the ones threatening it, I don’t recall the republicans calling their bluff and making them go through with it. They should go back to old days of having a senator ramble on for 22 – 24 hours to make the filibuster stick.
Get Real
October 12th, 2012
10:09 am
Hey Jaybo….wouldn’t this law impact stiupid people on both the left and right? It may be GOP sponsored but how does it solely impact democratic voters?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:09 am
Doom — “And of course the next thing they’ll talk about is how unruly and dangerous the rioting tea party rallies were”
That’s strange. I thought the Tea Party folks had been claiming that they weren’t Republicans.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 12th, 2012
10:11 am
Doom, did I miss your apology from last night?
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 12th, 2012
10:11 am
“Given the sanctity of the vote, how can government officials actively seek to disenfranchise thousands of its citizens in such a fashion?”
.
It’s easy.
See the State of Georgia’s rules/regulations for a third party to get on a ballot.
And every state is like that.
.
And it’s not disenfranchising thousands…………….it millions.
(I doubt that the folks in Ohio are really THAT concerned about voting for the two clowns anyhoo).
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:11 am
Mick,
Folks on both sides have been fillibustering forever. That’s just part of our system. But for keep to say that the Ds didn’t control Congress in Obama’s first 2 years is absurd. They not only controlled Congress but in the Senate were only 1-2 votes away from being fillibuster proof. Its not that hard to sway 1 or 2 Senators via a Cornhusker kickback or La. Purchase if that senator is in his last term or if that senator senses that the country supports the opposition party’s plan and can be talked into jumping ship on that one issue.
TaxPayer
October 12th, 2012
10:11 am
The Grand Old Party of cheaters and losers. Republicans through and through.
AngryRedMarsWoman
October 12th, 2012
10:11 am
“Given the sanctity of the vote, how can government officials actively seek to disenfranchise thousands of its citizens in such a fashion?”
Given that the electoral college system will have the effect of disenfranchising up to half the voters in all but a handful of states in this election, you would think the career politicians wouldn’t need to do anything more. I guess that the need/desire to control the vote in those handful of states is just too strong for them to resist.
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 12th, 2012
10:11 am
But then again……….they ARE Ohions.
getalife
October 12th, 2012
10:12 am
The media is just horrible about the debate.
ryan said they are open to stay in Afghanistan and they report about Biden’s laughing having a great time and his smile.
Lets just call media what it it, garbage.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 12th, 2012
10:12 am
BIDEN BOORISH BUFOON !
Jay
October 12th, 2012
10:13 am
Real, that’s addressed in the blogpost above. Voting in the wrong precinct happens much more frequently in high-density urban areas, where the precincts are much smaller and thus more easily confused. It doesn’t affect ONLY Dem voters, but it does affect Dem voters disproportionately.
And again, these are votes that would not be counted because of mistakes by poll workers, not by voters.
Brosephus™
October 12th, 2012
10:14 am
DDR
You’re still #1 in my book, even with that whole Auburn stuff.
—————————
USinner and southpaw
Thanks!!!
—————————-
JHM
We won’t know until right before the umbilical cord is cut.
—————————-
Well, it’s a lot better than Angry Black Daughter II: Electric Boogaloo.
I like the sound of that!!!!!!
—————————
As for the nonsense that Brocephus presented about how many cases have been prosecuted its extremely difficult to catch voter fraud in the act.
I have presented more FACT on voter fraud than most any other poster here. Whether you consider it nonsense or not, you haven’t presented a single thing other than assertions to back up your stance.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:14 am
Doom — “Joe Mama, Yes. That could quite possibly solve the problem.”
I’ll say it again. I’m not opposed to voter ID and neither are most liberals I know. What I/they *are* opposed to is the half-azz way states and the GOP are going about trying to impose some rules and security on the process.
We need something robust, flexible and damn hard to hack or forge. And driver’s licenses aren’t it.
The best criticism of my idea yet came from Kam, who pointed out that cost would be a bear. And I agree. But aren’t secure and reliable elections something that would be *worth* spending some money on?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 12th, 2012
10:14 am
” The ‘currency of the honest vote’ is just as important to our democracy.”
of course the difference between counterfeiting and voter fraud is that one is the first is a real problem and the second is a manufactured one.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 12th, 2012
10:14 am
Excuse me: “BUFFOON”
Get Real
October 12th, 2012
10:14 am
Disenfranchise….peleeez
indigo
October 12th, 2012
10:14 am
“there can be no justification for such efforts”
Actually, if you’re a Republican politician, it’s entirely justified. You simply do whatever it takes to win. Only losers would think some tactics are “unAmerican”. In Romney’s case, you flip-flop and do any zig-zagging necessary to win voters. In Ryan’s case, you go as far as possible to the extreme right to win the same voters. And, in Ohio, you rig the election any way that’s possible. It’s the Republican way and only suckers play by the rules.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 12th, 2012
10:15 am
ohnoes!!!! Chris Wallace needs a fainting couch!
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:15 am
Joe Mama,
They are conservatives.
Keep up,
Apologize for what? And do you really expect me to go through all of last night’s pages just to prove you wrong? Seriously? Hell I proved you completely wrong on your ridiculous assertion that the Dems didn’t control Congress in Obama’s first 2 years and you’re still sticking to your guns. I could try and convince you that the sky is blue and you would probably dispute that also. Plus I’m getting out of here in a few minutes. Somebody got to work to pay the taxes around here.
Jay
October 12th, 2012
10:16 am
Sounds fine to me, Thulsa, but I don’t think those on the right would be placated. They could still claim — without evidence — that vast numbers of illegals and felons were voting.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 12th, 2012
10:17 am
Do GOP candidates lie and cheat because the rank and file republicans lie and cheat
OR
do rank and file republicans lie and cheat because the GOP candidates lie and cheat?
it’s a puzzlement
Jm
October 12th, 2012
10:18 am
“Real, that’s addressed in the blogpost above. Voting in the wrong precinct happens much more frequently in high-density urban areas, where the precincts are much smaller and thus more easily confused. It doesn’t affect ONLY Dem voters, but it does affect Dem voters disproportionately.”
I agree. Dem voters are easily confused.
stands for decibels
October 12th, 2012
10:18 am
so no I hope they never institute a law as you describe because you would be the first to go
If you can post an example of me posing a fake inquiry as laughable as yours @ 9.56, I’m ready to walk to the gallows.
(so to speak. Of course, longtime readers know I think the death penalty is stupid and should’ve been abolished long ago in the US.)
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:19 am
Doom — “Joe Mama, They are conservatives.”
I’ll keep that in mind next time a TP person here claims that they’re not affiliated with the GOP.
getalife
October 12th, 2012
10:19 am
The only person to report the fact that ryan said they are open to stay in Afghanistan (the neocons won that argument in mitt’s camp) was Bo Biden.
nobodyyouknow
October 12th, 2012
10:20 am
What happened to the term “GRAVETAUS” {spelling}? All the media was using that term in the last election. I tried to look it up in the dictionary but could not find it. They kill me when someone picks up a word and they all get hooked on it. After the O.J. trial it was “closure”, A few years back sports shows started with “athletizism”. I had never heard that one before. Media people are always accuseing politicians of being out of touch with people. No one is more out of touch with the public than many in the media. Look at Micheal Luckovich, he only sees the shortcommings of Repubs. He completely overlooks the many that his Dems. pals commit. And so it goes.
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:20 am
Joe Mama,
Well then hell is freezing over since we actually agree on the issue. And for the record I will agree with the libs on the Pennsylavania law that Rs wanted in one respect. The Rs should have introduced this provision for voter ID long before the election to give voters who don’t have ID ample time to get ID. In that regard I think they screwed up. Now I gotta get going.
stands for decibels
October 12th, 2012
10:20 am
Chris Wallace needs a fainting couch!
I’d just seen him last night, prior to the debate, on a CSPAN-aired panel. The douchyness was strong with him then, and I’m delighted to learn that he is upset, this mornin’.
Those Village a-holes know where they can shove their civility and mythical “bi-partisanship.”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 12th, 2012
10:20 am
Ahhh, Doom again declares victory and backs out the door clucking all the way……
Brosephus, I missed it before… congrats!
Jm
October 12th, 2012
10:21 am
Jay your typo is still there
Oh well
In other news: Sotheby’s is auctioning off the diamond planet around the sun 55 Canceri. DeBeers is in a panic and expected to be the high bidder.
stands for decibels
October 12th, 2012
10:21 am
Sounds fine to me, Thulsa
People should be able to choose, though–purple, or Pepto-pink.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:21 am
Girl ridicules Ryan for not standing up for himself to old man Biden
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/12/gretchen-carlson-suggests-ryan-should-just-deck-biden/
stands for decibels
October 12th, 2012
10:21 am
Sotheby’s is auctioning off the diamond planet around the sun 55 Canceri.
har.
Dirty Dawg
October 12th, 2012
10:22 am
Cheaters never win? Tell that to Al Gore…to John Kerry…to Max Cleland and to Roy Barnes. Republicans look at cheating to win elections the same way they do about ‘the truth’ – namely, that they think that not getting caught in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth. And frankly, lately, even that – getting caught in a lie – doesn’t deter ‘em so why do we think catching ‘em stealing elections would stop ‘em? Until there are real consequences to this crap, they’ll keepin keepin’ on…I say make it a capital offense then line a couple of guilty ones ‘against the wall’ and see how quickly the rest of em come around.
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:22 am
Jay,
I don’t see any cons who believe that “vast” numbers of illegals or felons are voting. Just that in close elections that it can make a difference. If there are cons who believe that “vast” numbers are voting illegal ballots then what can I say- they’re drinking the right wing kool aide.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 12th, 2012
10:23 am
“Those Village a-holes know where they can shove their civility and mythical “bi-partisanship.””
seriously – their #1 rule for Democrats: no hitting back.
sod that.
nelson
October 12th, 2012
10:23 am
Joe interrupted Paul 89 times in the debate last night. That was his game plan, interrupt as much as possible and throw the whole procedure in diseray.
I still think the elephant in the china shop are the wealthy 1% that see a real, real slow down in hiring with Prez O’s tax plan. And just as I thought Martha Radditz gave the “real zingers” to Paul, leading off with “Would You like to apologize to the Prez” how much more biased can a moderator be? It threw the whole debate into a cloud of bias.
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:23 am
stands for decibels,
I’ll take crimson ink please.
moonbat betty
October 12th, 2012
10:24 am
“Probably shouldn’t admit this, but you have no idea how hard I work to suppress the desire for 2012 to be like 2000 or 2004 in reverse, where it’s down to one state, where the voting seems a little fishy (at best) but the GOP is told they just have to suck it up and accept the loss.”
sfd,
I really hope that it won’t be that close either way. It will be terrible for the country to go down that road again, especially at this time.
It will be much uglier though if Obama winds up on the short end than Romney. (IMO).
getalife
October 12th, 2012
10:25 am
fox news was hilarious last night.
I have not seen them that angry since they lost the the election.
Stayed up late on drudge links too but cnn shut down their comments because their performance on this debate was just the worst I have seen. cnn proved they are fox news.
Williebkind
October 12th, 2012
10:26 am
“where the voter’s only mistake was relying on the poll-worker’s precinct guidance,” the judges said.”
Those liberal democrat voters have to be spoon fed. After all everything has been and always will be done for them because they have no responisiblity. The get out to vote efforts confuse them terribly unless you take their hand and lead them to the polls. Of course you whisper into their ear who give s them the most for nothing more than a vote–and the judge agrees!
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:26 am
SfD — “I’d just seen him last night, prior to the debate, on a CSPAN-aired panel. The douchyness was strong with him then, and I’m delighted to learn that he is upset, this mornin’. Those Village a-holes know where they can shove their civility and mythical “bi-partisanship.”
Joe Scarborough led off with baseball this morning, leading Mika to comment that he apparently feels that Ryan got his bohunkus handed to him last night. Whenever there’s good news for Republicans, Joe leads with it. Whenever there’s bad news for them, Joe finds something else to start the show with.
Dunwoody Granny
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
Study shows rich more likely to be dishonest:
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/27/10512938-rich-people-more-likely-to-cheat-behave-badly-research-finds?lite
Thulsa Doom
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
“Ahhh, Doom again declares victory and backs out the door clucking all the way…”
Sorry keep. Not everybody has all day long to blog every day. I take it bidness is slow for ya. Doesn’t surprise me in the least that your clientele book is small.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
Doom — “I’ll take crimson ink please.”
How did I know that already?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
“Joe Scarborough led off with baseball this morning, leading Mika to comment that he apparently feels that Ryan got his bohunkus handed to him last night”
I posted this downstairs, but it bears repeating:
“One more thing–for what it is worth, Sarah Palin did a much better job against Joe Biden in 2008 than Paul Ryan did tonight. Bizarre, but true.”
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/10/the-veep-debate-how-did-it-go-a-poll.php
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:29 am
getalife — “fox news was hilarious last night.”
I wanted to watch the debate on Fox, but my wife would not HEAR of it. Now I gotta buy her some jewelry because I even brought it up in the first place.
YouLibs
October 12th, 2012
10:29 am
Voter fraud is a particular problem among millionaire Marta drivers. A vast majority of them vote numerous times and in many precincts.
I’m looking for a link.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 12th, 2012
10:29 am
JOE,
Good question about turnout..seems once again based on polls indicating enthusiasm…Here are the two most interesting articles I surfaced..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443294904578044442604293814.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/curtis-gans/voter-turnout-2012_b_1958265.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
getalife
October 12th, 2012
10:30 am
Like VP Joe Biden, I am sick of gop and media insulting my intelligence and disrespecting me with blatant lies. Vice President Joe Biden is my hero for calling it what it is. Malarkey.
Williebkind
October 12th, 2012
10:31 am
Dunwoody Granny
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
Is this another liberal democrat consensus?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 12th, 2012
10:32 am
Sorry keep. Not everybody has all day long to blog every day. I take it bidness is slow for ya. Doesn’t surprise me in the least that your clientele book is small.
That Doom sure do have time to post on a variety of things all morning but not to back his lies….and then time to throw in a personal insult without a shred of evidence. So much for that “new improved” Doom that was promised, a return to the self-proclaimed pompous Doom.
CJ
October 12th, 2012
10:32 am
Real, that’s addressed in the blogpost above. Voting in the wrong precinct happens much more frequently in high-density urban areas, where the precincts are much smaller and thus more easily confused.
This doesn’t just happen in the urban areas of Ohio. Here in Smyrna, I have to drive past one polling place to get to mine. It’s bizarre.
b-troll
October 12th, 2012
10:33 am
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/timesbay-news-9herald-exclusive-florida-poll-romney-51-obama-44/1255882
Um. Wow.
getalife
October 12th, 2012
10:33 am
Joe,
After the debate, fox lost it. They hate it when the truth reaches their viewers because it exposes them as liars.
stands for decibels
October 12th, 2012
10:34 am
I really hope that it won’t be that close either way. It will be terrible for the country to go down that road again, especially at this time.
Fully agreed; it’s only the nasty, vindictive streak in me (that, like I said, I have to work to keep at bay, at times–doesn’t everyone?) that ever thinks otherwise.
Doggone/GA
October 12th, 2012
10:34 am
“you haven’t presented a single thing other than assertions to back up your stance”
It’s the old “the lack of available proof is PROOF that something is fishy” – kind of like the “Obama has done nothing about gun control, which PROVES he’s in favor of taking away guns” mindset.
See the similarity?
Doggone/GA
October 12th, 2012
10:35 am
“But aren’t secure and reliable elections something that would be *worth* spending some money on?”
Not when there’s no proof they aren’t ALREADY fair and reliable. It’s “fixing” a problem that doesn’t exist.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 12th, 2012
10:35 am
DUNWOODYGRANNY
I read you link…the math is not remotely credible…first none of the surveys involved enough people to get credible sampling of outcomes (194 folks in first test?? Rich being over $150K), second, the actual measures to determine “cheaters” are subject too challenge..
Generally need at least 1000 participants to get credible sample, more importantly, the measures utilized need to be more abbreviated..
Brosephus™
October 12th, 2012
10:36 am
Keep
Thanks!!
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 12th, 2012
10:36 am
I thought Bill O’Reilly made it ok to interupt….
I watched that interview with President Obama. I remember it perfectly.
It is most certainly true….the GOP can dish it out but sure can’t take it.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:36 am
S. Ray — “JOE, Good question about turnout..seems once again based on polls indicating enthusiasm…Here are the two most interesting articles I surfaced..”
FWIW, I actually had already read those two. Good choices.
But they speak to get-out-the-vote efforts only among certain supportive voter blocs. They don’t actually make quantitative *predictions* (either in raw number or in percentages) of what the actual turnout numbers will be,
This is the crux of my gripe with Rasmussen — they actually come up with a NUMBER that they believe represents what turnout will be on Election Day (it went behind a paywall over the summer so you can’t read about it on their site for free any more), and then they apply that number to their ACTUAL poll results.
They call it ‘weighting.’ Since the ‘weight’ number is nothing but fantasy on their part, I call it ‘fudging.’
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 12th, 2012
10:38 am
BTROLL
Wow wow….no wonder LIBS are reduced to clutching at straws with no substance…of course the race if far from over..
Brosephus™
October 12th, 2012
10:38 am
See the similarity?
“I see”, said the blind man.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:39 am
Doggone — “Not when there’s no proof they aren’t ALREADY fair and reliable. It’s “fixing” a problem that doesn’t exist.”
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the absentee voting system, but IMO that is *rife* with opportunities for fraudulent voting.
I had to vote absentee a lot when I was a traveling consultant (even got denied a ballot one time because the county employee didn’t believe that anyone who wasn’t in the military or didn’t work for an airline could POSSIBLY be away from home as much as I claimed to be), and it would be pretty easy to submit fraudulent votes that way.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 12th, 2012
10:40 am
JOE,
The good thing about Rasmussen is that they appear to be the only one that weighs voter turnout on a blend of 2000, 2004 and 2008…the others generally assume 2008 turnouts…so I believe all polls include an assumption of turnout with most defaulting to 2008 levels that appear not likely to be the case..
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 12th, 2012
10:42 am
BRO,
Of course in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king…perhaps in this environment, its’ the one who has access to braille or has the best dog…
Doggone/GA
October 12th, 2012
10:43 am
“I don’t know if you’re familiar with the absentee voting system, but IMO that is *rife* with opportunities for fraudulent voting.”
Ok, then address THAT problem. I see no need to go to the trouble and expense of making EVERYONE get some sort of “secure” ID (there’s no such thing, even tattoos can be faked) when the possiblity of fraud exists in only a tiny segment of the voting population.
Mary Elizabeth
October 12th, 2012
10:43 am
“They are engaged in a shamelessly partisan effort to deny the ballot to eligible, legitimate voters, and if you have to stoop to tactics like that to win, in a sense you have already lost.”
==================================
The population demographics of the future do not fare well for Republicans because of their exclusion policies and philosophy. And, they know it. Thus, they resort to such unethical tactics as suppression of the vote. And, they try to suppress the vote with subterfuge. If the Republican Party wins the Presidency, Americans can expect more spin than truth, into the future.
Joseph
October 12th, 2012
10:43 am
Hilarious compilation of Biden’s shining moments….
http://youtu.be/UFZeUcVgnN4 via fincherstew.com
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 12th, 2012
10:43 am
Joe, absentee voting and electronic machine voting are 2 of the biggest potential areas for fraud. Without paper ballots its hard to recount. And the electronic voting system programs have been shown to have a variety of programming issues.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:45 am
S. Ray — “The good thing about Rasmussen is that they appear to be the only one that weighs voter turnout on a blend of 2000, 2004 and 2008…”
Why’s that a good thing?
Seriously, I’ve got a pretty strong background in statistics, and I don’t see that as a positive at all.
“the others generally assume 2008 turnouts…”
If you’ve properly randomized your selection protocol across your survey population, then weighting is unnecessary if you select a large enough sample. IMO, national surveys of any kind (including elections) aren’t worth a lot of attention unless their margin of error is +/- 3.0 or less. FWIW, applying weights to the results *increases* that MOE, because you’re assuming that something you didn’t account for in the selection protocol threw the results off.
First question from a Stats 101 student — then why didn’t you fix the selection protocol instead of working that bogus fudge factor in?
“so I believe all polls include an assumption of turnout with most defaulting to 2008 levels that appear not likely to be the case..”
I don’t think that *anyone* can predict turnout with any accuracy whatsoever. Particularly so now that early voting is becoming widespread.
Brosephus™
October 12th, 2012
10:46 am
Stevie Ray
Yep.
Doggone/GA
October 12th, 2012
10:46 am
“Joe, absentee voting and electronic machine voting are 2 of the biggest potential areas for fraud”
Yes, indeed…and in electronic voting a photo ID would do NOTHING to eliminate that possible voting fraud.
barking frog
October 12th, 2012
10:46 am
In Georgia
To vote legally you must
register.
To register you must identify.
Elections Supervisors must
certify to the Secretary of
State that all votes counted
were legal.
All votes cast at the polls
are not counted unless they
are legal.
It’s possible to vote
fraudulently but not in
large numbers unless
there is a large conspiracy
which would be easily
detectable. Two or more
parties keep it honest.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 12th, 2012
10:47 am
I see no need to go to the trouble and expense of making EVERYONE get some sort of “secure” ID…
I don’t see that happening as the cost would be enormous and heads would explode over that.
Williebkind
October 12th, 2012
10:49 am
“And, they try to suppress the vote with subterfuge. If the Republican Party wins the Presidency, Americans can expect more spin than truth, into the future.”
Now let us pray to mother earth who provides us will all our needs!! OMG!!
Doggone/GA
October 12th, 2012
10:49 am
“I don’t see that happening as the cost would be enormous and heads would explode over that.”
Well, the GOP is doing their damndest to see that it DOES happen…they just don’t want to have to pay for it.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 12th, 2012
10:49 am
Doggone — “Ok, then address THAT problem. I see no need to go to the trouble and expense of making EVERYONE get some sort of “secure” ID (there’s no such thing, even tattoos can be faked) when the possiblity of fraud exists in only a tiny segment of the voting population.”
I have two problems with that.
1) You’re creating two parallel voting systems with different levels of security. IMO, that’s already the problem we have.
2) People who don’t have the IDs ahead of time (who think they won’t ever need them) would be disenfranchised if they experienced some sort of emergency during the election (e.g. hospitalization, death in the family requiring travel, etc).
I’m not trying to nitpick — I’m trying to come up with something that covers all bases. Maybe you can help me think up refinements and improvements to my idea.
Fedup
October 12th, 2012
10:49 am
Don’t you guys read what I said. Jack Welch, Koch brothers Goldman Sachs CEO and Marie Anttonate (wrong spelling) type of people. There are good rich folks like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates who give away their fortune to help the needy. That tells you throwing money at a problem help solve it. If that was wrong Buffet, Gates and others would not donate their huge fortune.
A lot of rich people lie e.g. Limbaugh, Hannity, OReilly, CEOs of the cigarrete companies (lied in the congressional hearing). How about the folks got caught in the Swiss bank account hidding their fortune. That is the unpatriotic lies. Same goes for Mitt and his overseas savings. HE LIED.
Z
October 12th, 2012
10:50 am
Republicans can’t win elections on their failed policies, so they lie, cheat, suppress the vote and commit voter fraud. It’s the Republican way of the past 30 years.