Liveblog: Biden, Ryan ready to rumble
UPDATE: 9:05 On a question about the Libyan attack, Biden does well, diverting it into the larger security question. Ryan handles his part ably as well, although this “weakness.”
Whoa… the malarkey card: “Everything he said is a bunch of malarkey,” says Biden. And then backs it up. A good, strong exchange, although Ryan comes across as a bit unseasoned.
UPDATE: 9:15 Ryan takes a hard, but unrealistic, line on Iran. He sounds like he’s repeating rehearsed lines, Biden sounds like he comprehends the issue.
Biden’s forcefulness working for him very well.
I wonder if President Obama is taking notes.
9:26: “We’re going in the wrong direction,” says Ryan. I don’t think that’s going to sell. “It’s late evening in America”?
Raddatz doing well as moderator, but I think the forum is easier. Sitting there at the table gives her more control. It’s a good exchange.
9:34 Medicare and Social Security. I think Joe just hit a home run on Medicare with seniors, which is his target audience on this topic.
Although Ryan is right about Biden interrupting.
9:50 Biden carrying the argument with a combination of passion and detail.
10:00 I don’t think Ryan/Romney’s argument for sticking in Afghanistan gets them anywhere. That time is past.
Ryan failed on Afghanistan, but it’s not necessarily his fault. The vague Romney position on Afghanistan, suggesting he’d stay longer, is just hard to defend after more than a decade of U.S. blood.
10:28 Ryan has held his own; he did a good job with what he was given. But this is a Biden victory. It’s not a slam dunk; it won’t alter the race much. But Biden’s conviction carried the day.
It may and should serve as a template for his boss. An interesting endnote: I don’t recall a veep debate in which the tops of the ticket, Romney and Obama in this case, were mentioned so seldom.
————————
Among other things, it’s going to be interesting to see how successful Joe Biden is in handcuffing Paul Ryan to the ardently conservative positions that he championed before joining the ticket, and how willing Ryan will be to slough off that identity in service of the newly moderate Mitt Romney.
Not to mention Biden’s proclivity for foot-chewing.
– Jay Bookman
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973 comments Add your comment
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
Door open for Biden to be bipartisan
He elected partisanship
Sick
Ryan response will be interesting
bob
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
Granny, do you still support the WEA trust sticking Wisconsin taxpayers for millions in extra healthcare premiums with their union owned insurance company ? Yeah right, your’e for the people !
They BOTH suck
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
TD
Not sure if you won, but Bookman only has an AJC coozie left to send out for gifts. let him know before someone else wins a back and forth and claims the last prize before you do.
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
Ryan also goes partisan
Blah
Missed opportunity for the middle
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:25 pm
keep up,
BTW you never offered any links to bolster your ridiculous argument that the Libyan consulate did not ask for any extra security help. I provided 2 links- one from the Huffpo and one from abc news showing where the embassy did in fact ask for extra security help. This is generally considered common knowledge although you for some mysterious reason still insist that the embassy didnt ask for any help. Still waiting for you to provide proof of yet another of your asinine assertions.
TJ lives
October 11th, 2012
10:25 pm
Republicans: they sure know what the Democrats are doing wrong…they just don’t have a workable plan of their own.
barking frog
October 11th, 2012
10:25 pm
bman
expect less..eliminate
disappointment.
jack bull
October 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
yeah, i guess he did break a few promises. but he’s still doing such a great job.
I just need him to get diesel prices back down to where they were a few years ago.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
Doom
well if you can’t understand the filibuster rules and how they work, I really can’t help you. Your weakness is revealed by your inability to respond without throwing in claims of “stupid”, “weak ass”, etc. And if the lack of a 60 vote supermajority is nonsense, then I am sure you in all your self-proclaimed “genius” can refute it with facts. Again, you lost on the facts despite your meltdown.
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
October 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
There is a clear winner in this debate……….Jay trounced Kyle.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
Yep, bman.
Baltimore is up 9 – 1 and Biden is getting crushed.
Granny Godzilla
October 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
Speeches.
Did you read them mr.silly pants?
Billybob
October 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
boogeyman fear tactics at the end by joe for people who know no better and then class warfare on taxes……definititon of spending cuts is honesty that libs can’t admit
Welcome to the Occupation
October 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
getalife: “He just called him congressman.”
The Romney-Ryan campaign specifically negotiated with the debate committee and had it agreed on that Ryan would never be addressed as “Congressman” but always as “Mr.”.
Very shrewd of Biden to pound away on that point, probably as much to rattle and get under skin of Ryan than anything the viewers would observe, at least consciously.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:28 pm
I will win the Oscar for best actor. This is generally considered common knowledge.
jack bull
October 11th, 2012
10:28 pm
what kind of question is that?!?!?!?
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:28 pm
they both suck,
Not sure if I won anything. Other than making keep up’s 2 ridiculous arguments look stupid. But then that’s easy to do.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:28 pm
Steve-USA,
That is not a fair fight.
Con blogs blow. That is why so many of them end up over here. (grin)
cmac
October 11th, 2012
10:29 pm
Joe gets only 15 seconds because he is less of a man!
Billybob
October 11th, 2012
10:29 pm
cliches from joe
jack bull
October 11th, 2012
10:29 pm
the VP won, although he was very rude about it.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:29 pm
I am dating Ilary Blasi. This is generally considered common knowledge.
barking frog
October 11th, 2012
10:30 pm
WTO
Raddatz introduced him as
Congressman Ryan.
POTUS lied about the youtube video
October 11th, 2012
10:30 pm
Joe’s meds must be wearing off. He started laughing and talking in bombastic levels. Now he’s quiet and raspy.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
I can free dive to the bottom of the Marinas Trench. This is generally considered common knowledge
Daedalus
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
Buffs score with 24 seconds left in the half. ASU leads 20-15.
Detroit up 2 – 0 over the A’s. Bottom of the 3rd.
Yanks and Orioles tied 1 to 1. Top of the 9th.
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
keep up,
Dude if all you can do is argue about filibuster rules then the reality is that rarely if ever has either party really controlled Congress. Your spin about filibuster is just plain weak.
The consensus view is and always has been that if your party has more of its members in the House and also in the senate then you control Congress. Its that simple. So simple that a 6th grader can understand it. You on the other hand…
Billybob
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
even shot, level playing field, fair shot, clear shot…nice job joe
Tom Middleton
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
Martha: What would you bring to the country no one else can bring?
Ryan: Honesty
Laugh line of the night!
Don't Forget
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
Hate those open ended bs questions. Just gives them an opportunity to spew a bunch of rhetoric
Joseph
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
yet another epic whoopin….. Good luck dems.. lol…
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
Ryan’s close does a better job communicating to the middle and lower middle class
Biden had slight edge in debate, Ryan did a better job in closing
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
Lyin’ Ryan is embarrassed about where he works??????
I suppose I would be too if I was a leading member of the least popular Congress since the dawn of modern polling…
getalife
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
A epic smack down for all time.
Vice President Biden is the man.
Billybob
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
nice ending for ryan…..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
I will be the starting pitcher in game 1 of The World Series. This is generally considered common knowledge
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
kamspam with another finely articulated debate point. His intellect is truly dizzying.
jack bull
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
i just don’t many of my fellow middle classers doing a lot of hiring.
Zebra
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
Not having 60 means no effective control if you cannot break a filibuster.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
Doom, pomposity is all you got. Again, you lost on the facts but thanks for playing.
Ryan’s close was certainly weak.
Don't Forget
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
At the next Obama Romney debate someone should shout out “you lie” right after Romney says something. Wonder how the right would respond to that?
iggy
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
Post Debate, first thing out of Bidens mouth to Ryan…”Drinks on me!”
Granny Godzilla
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
If we are worthy,
God bless America.
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
Jm-
I agree with your take.
barking frog
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
Looked like a draw. I don’t
think hearts and minds
were changed.
bman
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
I have a feeling the next Romney/Obama debate is going to be like watching a couple of teens argue.
Billybob
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
i luv getalife…..you are funny
getalife
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
wolf runs to help the gop and calls it a draw.
Mary Elizabeth
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
Maturity and experience won this debate.
iggy
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
Chris Mathews…Clear victory for Joe Biden…LOL!
Who knew?
Granny Godzilla
October 11th, 2012
10:36 pm
Rah rah Raddatz
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:36 pm
His intellect is truly dizzying.
This is generally considered common knowledge.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:36 pm
Daedalus, are these political d*ckwads pre-empting the Tigers/As game?
getalife
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
Biden won easily.
wolf is a gop hack and works for the romney campaign.
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
Brokaw: Biden just revised Obama’s tax policy
Weird
Why is Biden telling Obama what to do?
Tall
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
Poor old Joe……
Those forced nervous smiles said it all………..
This is leadership?
The reason I’m voting for Romney is Ryan.
Joseph
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
Obviously Ryan won the debate because MessNBC is talking about abortion…
Mark in mid-town
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
I thought Biden got off to a pretty good start. But as debate has gone on, I’m reminded of the 162 game season in major league baseball and what that meant pre wild card days. The slogan “the cream rises to the top” would often be applied to that 162 game season. What that meant was that over a long 162 game season, the best team would win out in the end. And I think that applies to the debate tonight. Whereas Biden got off to a small lead out of the gate and stayed competitive for the first half of the debate, Ryan systematically picked up steam and I thought clearly overtook Biden in cumulative substance and effectiveness. Biden’s constant laughing and smirking and interrupting got tiring and I think that will remind some of Gore’s obnoxious performance against Bush in the fist debate in 2000. Should be interesting how the liberal media tries to spin the debate.
Marty Huggins'
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
Was that Joe Biden or Jeff Dunham’s charecter “Walter”
Where was the ventriloquist?
Granny Godzilla
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
Marvelous Martha
jack bull
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
wow, i actually agree with trippi
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:38 pm
Getalife
Stop the spin
You’re going to get dizzy
Too much red bull for Biden
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:38 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
Doom, pomposity is all you got. Again, you lost on the facts but thanks for playing.
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Still waiting for your links to prove your ridiculous assertion that the Libyan consulate never requested more security. Where dey at???
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:39 pm
So from what I understand Eddie Joe Isuzu threw a no-no and hit a couple of grand salamis.
Is that about right, cons?
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:39 pm
Ryan passed qualified to be prez test
Good
getalife
October 11th, 2012
10:39 pm
The moderator did better and the truth came out.
The gop only vote for the wealthy.
Voting records don’t lie.
givememyfairshare
October 11th, 2012
10:39 pm
Biden won easily, if you’re a diehard dem yes, otherwise a draw…
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
“Biden’s constant laughing and smirking and interrupting got tiring and I think that will remind some of Gore’s obnoxious performance against Bush in the fist debate in 2000.”
Yep.
DownInAlbany
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
Well, it’s mercifully over. Biden proved again that he is a buffoon. To think this guy could rise to the Presidency should keep everyone up at night and be the one, single reason to vote for Romney.
You guys can spin it any way you like, but, Biden came across as a bipolar bully, alternating between angrily yelling gibberish to rolling his eyes to laughing uncontrollably. He seemed to be an out of control fool and Ryan really kept his composure during his constant interuptions.
jack bull
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
Biden had more energy for sure, obviously wasn’t in a high altitude.
barking frog
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
Granny Godzilla
I like Jim Lehrer but
Martha Raddatz was better.
Joseph
October 11th, 2012
10:41 pm
And with that, Joe Biden leaves the public stage for good.
getalife
October 11th, 2012
10:41 pm
ryan got owned.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:41 pm
Doom, pomposity is all you got. Again, you lost on the facts but thanks for playing.
This is generally considered common knowledge.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
“Biden’s constant laughing and smirking and interrupting got tiring and I think that will remind some of Gore’s obnoxious performance against Bush in the fist debate in 2000.”
Haha. Well, guess we know who “won” based on all the sour faces.
nobodyyouknow
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
Dems. will say Biden won the debate. Repubs will say Ryan won. I don’t give a wad of snot who won it, its time for a change. All I know is whats happening in the area I live. And its not good. O’bama and his cronies say so many thousands of jobs have been created. WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY? The ones who are die hard O’bama followers I can assure you are mostly ones who are on some entitlement programs. JAMVET IS THIS YOU?
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
Getalife
No one is buying your koolaid
givememyfairshare
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
wonder who getalife will vote for?
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
A cranky old man debating a polite young man. That’s how independents are going to see this when they look at how unlikeable and rude Biden was tonight. And how the independents see this is all that mattered.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
Doom: Still waiting for your links to prove your ridiculous assertion that the Libyan consulate never requested more security.
You can provide a link to where I made this assertion you claim I made? If not, I am sure you will apologize for the false attribution.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Ryan passed qualified to be prez test.
Of course, just like Sarah did.
The reason?
All of them will dutifully take their marching orders from their paymasters on Wall Street..
ALL of them…
Corporations Uber Alles.
Matti
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Yes, Raddatz is the clear winner over Lehrer. No contest.
YouLibs
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Hah.
Good one, jm.
Give me a minute to get my breath back before you crack another one, okay?
Biden turned that whippersnapper over his knee and wore him out.
DownInAlbany
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
October 11th, 2012
10:41 pm
ryan got owned
You obviously didn’t watch the same debate I watched.
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Nobodyyouknow
True dat
bman
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
The funny thing is …
If Biden had not been so disruptive and annoying, this debate may have had more of an impact.
Wilbur
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Biden just committed political suicide. His is a horses rear and unfit for high office. He has made himself radioactive to all but the loony left.
Tonight Joe demolished what was left of Obama’s hollow promises of a post partisan third way. Joe was no longer the doddering grandfather; instead, he is a jerk.
iggy
October 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Jay. What say you?
Welcome to the Occupation
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
barking frog: ‘Raddatz introduced him as
Congressman Ryan”
Didn’t catch that. Wonder why.
Thulsa Doom
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
givememyfairshare
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
wonder who getalife will vote for?
I would think he would vote for Obama. But ya never know. He may try to do a write in vote for Karl Marx.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
A cranky old man debating a polite young man.
The bromance is palpable.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
Free baseball in NY!
Flatline
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
I could care less who won this debate. This debate has been going on amongst Americans for years. There is never a consensus. There is never a bona fide answer. We all hang on every word, but the words are meaningless. No one won tonight. We the people lose again. We the people remain divided in the middle. We are pawns.
Granny Godzilla
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
Biden laughed because it was funny.
Sardonically
YouLibs
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
@10:39 that is
Jm
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
Bman
Very possible
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
Iggy – “Jay. What say you?”
Top of the page!
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
Meat, yep I’m a proud communist member of the 47% club.
I get the best health care in the world for free.
Thank you, VA…
(I know, I know. It sucks to be you.)
nobodyyouknow
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
GETALIFE, nobody won the stupid debate. But if that gets your rocks off go ahead and gloat.
getalife
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
I like a fighter and don’t want it toned down or no interruptions.
Our country is at stake.
The gop will destroy it again.
I have no doubt.