State charter-school advocates try to squelch dissent

If approved by voters next month, Amendment 1 would give appointed state officials — officials answerable to politicians, not to voters — the authority to create and oversee special state-authorized charter schools anywhere in Georgia. The wishes of local voters and locally elected officials would not matter.

In other words, Amendment 1 is about taking power from the hands of the many and concentrating it in the hands of an unaccountable few. If you have any doubt about that claim, look at the heavy-handed manner in which those backing the proposal are trying to silence those who oppose it.

It’s safe to say that no one knows the potential impact of Amendment 1 better than school boards and superintendents. The Georgia School Superintendents Association and the Georgia School Boards Association strongly oppose its passage, as do many school boards, school board members and superintendents.

But according to their critics, they do not have the legal right to express such opinions. Supporters of Amendment 1 claim that school boards, for example, are forbidden from passing resolutions opposing the proposal because that constitutes an illegal use of taxpayer money to influence an election.

They have also enlisted powerful allies in their effort to silence opposition. Georgia Attorney General Sam Olens has issued an advisory opinion that is short on specifics but ominous in tone, warning that “school boards do not have the legal authority to expend funds or other resources to advocate or oppose the ratification of a constitutional amendment by the voters. They may not do this directly or indirectly through associations to which they may belong,” an apparent reference to the school-board and superintendent associations.

Atlanta attorney Glenn Delk, a longtime advocate of private-school vouchers, upped the ante this week when he filed suit against all 180 school boards in the state, insisting on their silence. The concerted effort to intimidate opponents of Amendment 1 has even convinced State School Superintendent John Barge, an elected statewide official, to take down a statement explaining his personal opposition to the proposal from the state Department of Education website.

It’s important to note that the law forbidding use of taxpayer resources to affect elections is important and ought to be respected. But to date, statements by education officials and associations have been well within the customary limits of that law in Georgia.

For example, while Barge pulled down his statement of opposition, as of Tuesday the website of Gov. Nathan Deal still contained two press releases touting the governor’s support of Amendment 1. In addition, Deal traveled to Cherokee County for a high-profile ceremony last spring in which he signed legislation related to Amendment 1, a clear use of taxpayer money to publicize his support of the measure.

Last summer’s failed campaign to rally support for a regional transportation tax also offers a stark contrast. The state Department of Transportation made no secret of its support for T-SPLOST. A FAQ still available on the DOT website warns that if the tax measures are rejected, “Georgia’s regions and the state as a whole would not be able to address its transportation infrastructure needs for a growing population and potential economic development.”

Deal himself endorsed the T-SPLOST in an op-ed column presumably written by state staff at state expense. Among other places, that column was published on the website of the Georgia Municipal Association, under the headline “Georgians need to support T-SPLOST”. GMA serves the same function for city officials that the school board association serves for school-board members. Similar examples can be cited involving the Association County Commissioners of Georgia (the trade organization for county officials), the Atlanta Regional Commission and countless county commissioners.

Yet somehow, perhaps because those in power also backed T-SPLOST passage, none of these examples caught the attention of our attorney general, and no concerted effort was made to silence them. One rule for them, another for everybody else.

– Jay Bookman

247 comments Add your comment

Aquagirl

October 10th, 2012
7:32 am

Small gub’mint and free speech-lovin’ conservatives at work.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
7:33 am

When I decide something is really bad, and I find out that a powerful individual with whom I have had some nearly-deadly-serious dustups in the past, *also* thinks it’s really bad?

it’s really bad.

Gwinnett’s superintendent told the group that the amendment they’ll have the chance to vote on “is not about charter schools. I have no problem with charter schools. We have plans for three or four more as we speak. The real issue is … at a time of severe financial means … where is the money coming from?”

Added Wilbanks: “Go ahead and approve charter schools, but make sure you use a vehicle that’s already available to you. (With this amendment) you’re setting up a dual school system, and quite frankly folks … you know we’ve had two school systems before in this state. We used to say they were separate but equal. Now, the separate was correct, but I don’t think the equal was, do you?”

Take this PoS initiative out back and shoot it, hack it to bits, and bury it in multiple locations so that it can never rise again.

(and Jay’s piece outlining how the bill’s backers are trying to gag dissenters, should tell you all you need to know about its moral bankruptcy.)

JDW

October 10th, 2012
7:37 am

Anything ole Raw Deal can do to consolidate power in his hands is worth doing from his point of view. After all power=money….just check Raw Deal’s before and after balance sheet…simply amazing how one could clear all that debt on a governors salary!

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
7:39 am

Atlanta attorney Glenn Delk, a longtime advocate of private-school vouchers, upped the ante this week when he filed suit against all 180 school boards in the state, insisting on their silence.

Here is this guy’s website/bio:

http://www.lightmasanddelk.com/glenn-delk

here is his contact info, from
http://www.lightmasanddelk.com/directions-and-map

Suite 1150
1355 Peachtree Street, N.E.
Atlanta, GA 30309
404.876.3335
Fax: 404.876.3338

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
7:42 am

“Take this PoS initiative out back and shoot it, hack it to bits, and bury it in multiple locations so that it can never rise again.”

and THAT is why I’m your biggest fan.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
7:46 am

from downstairs:

and not one mention of the Death of a Salesman reference in the post?

yebbut *plenty* dast blamed this man.

N-GA

October 10th, 2012
7:48 am

So if regular public schools can’t do the job, take some money away from them and open some charter schools. The regular public schools will immediately improve, right?

Defies logic….

Ol' Timer

October 10th, 2012
7:48 am

In a word, Charter Schools drain money away from existing public schools into the hands of private companies who are able to cherry pick their students — something the public schools are unable to do — and still evidence of their ongoing superiority is questionable.

Now, I’m aware that there are liars, damn liars and then there’s statistics — but I’d like to see where Charter schools are superior over the long haul to well-run public schools. Show me!

The conservatives love privatization and this is an just another example of their love afair. And, we’ll not talk about the opportunities such intanglements provide for corruption and fraud.

“Conservatives define themselves in terms of what they oppose.” ~George Will

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

October 10th, 2012
7:52 am

Conservatives and suppression.

Who’d a thunk it?

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
7:53 am

““Conservatives define themselves in terms of what they oppose.” ~George Will”

George Will opposes blue jeans.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
7:57 am

The conservatives love privatization and this is an just another example of their love afair.

[...]

Conservatives and suppression.

Given that many of the superintendents from these districts who are opposing this PoS initiative are certainly politically conservative, themselves, I’d say this is beyond the usual left-right axis, and in another solar system, frankly.

Reality

October 10th, 2012
7:59 am

Just vote “no” on charter schools.

They lie. They twist the facts. They suppress any opposition. And why? Because it is all about the money. Corporations want access to the education tax dollars – plain and simple.

Fulfilling Father’s Campaign To Segregate Public Schools

October 10th, 2012
8:03 am

The Koch brothers are simply fulfilling their father’s legacy. In 1958, Fred Koch — the founder of Koch Industries — joined a group of manufacturing executives and Robert Welch to found the John Birch Society, a virulent far-right group that dominated the civil rights debate. The John Birch Society organized an impeachment campaign against then-Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren for the Brown v. Board decision outlawing racial segregation, and mobilized its supporters to oppose integration of schools on the grounds that mixing black and white would lead to the “mongrelization” of the races. Fred supported the John Birch Society’s anti-civil rights campaign, and wrote a screed denouncing the civil rights movement as communist-inspired.
Charles and David did not only inherit an oil company, they inherited a political philosophy. The Tea Party movement, orchestrated by AFP and other Koch fronts, reflects the paranoid style of the movement started by their father, Fred. As Thom Hartmann has explained, corporate interests have long funded far-right, paranoid movements to continually shift the balance of politics in America. The radical right creates political space for corporate candidates like Richard Nixon or Mitt Romney to appear “moderate” in contrast. David Koch, it should be noted, actually supports Romney for president in 2012 even though David’s fronts have spent the last two years boosting reactionaries like Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC).

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/188-188/4594-koch-brothers-campaign-to-segregate-public-schools

Jm

October 10th, 2012
8:03 am

The current system is broken.

Almost all remedies must be tried until a solution is found.

State charter schools are one such tool.

Pre Brown -vs- Board of Education

October 10th, 2012
8:07 am

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:12 am

State charter schools are one such tool.

Pete Peterson is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Jm

October 10th, 2012
8:14 am

Anti Koch spam alert

Jm

October 10th, 2012
8:16 am

Sfd

Tough love

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:17 am

Jm, the educational system is not “broken.”

And while I’m at it, our nation is not “broke”, so you know where you can stick your austerity fo’evah rhetoric that is part and parcel of the Borg collective you call home.

Disgusted in Dekalb

October 10th, 2012
8:19 am

To say school boards or local government is answerable to their constituents is naive at best and stupid at worst.

The parents in Dekalb wanted to stay with the current school calendar but the board voted to change it.

The new Dunwoody city government is totally going against the wishes of the citizens of Dunwoody on several issues.

If corporations want to open charter schools without taxpayer money, they’re free to do so. Why do they need an amendment and separate government agency to do so? We don’t need another shady backroom government agency in this state. Put the money towards the public school system, not out of state corporations who really care little about our kids.

The primary concern here should be our CHILDREN. But its not, its about money and power. Governor Deal and all Georgia politicians should be ashamed.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

October 10th, 2012
8:22 am

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wherewestand/reports/finance/how-do-we-fund-our-schools/197/

“It’s a little known fact that when it comes to the funding of our schools, the U.S. Government contributes about 10 cents to every dollar spent on K-12 education – less than the majority of countries in the world. And it wasn’t until 1965, when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act as part of his War on Poverty, that the federal government created a lasting program to fund K-12 education.

So where does the bulk of the money for our 14,000 public elementary and secondary school districts schools come from? State and local governments. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, state and local funding accounts for approximately 93 percent of education expenditures.

What’s the source of these funds? In most states, it’s sales and income taxes (both corporate and personal). But on a local level, these funds usually come from property taxes, which are set by the school board, local officials or citizens. It’s this system that causes the most dramatic differences between states, and even within districts.

Depending on the property wealth of a community, its schools might boast gleaming buildings and equipment, or they might be dilapidated – struggling with the burden of outdated equipment and unpaid bills.

According to the most recent Funding Gap report by the non-profit group The Education Trust, many states still provide the least amount of funding to school districts serving students with the greatest needs.”

skipper

October 10th, 2012
8:23 am

I am not sure what the answer is, but a brain-damaged donkey could do a better job than APS….they have shown that local control is nothing more than electing incompetance and putting it in charge. Absolutely no care for qualifications (in many cases) is the rule of the day. Not a single executive with kids IF he relocated his company to Atlanta (save for a crusader or two) would enroll his kids in APS (save the VERY FEW semi-successful fringe schools.) What the hell do folks do……………

ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!

October 10th, 2012
8:24 am

To say school boards or local government is answerable to their constituents is naive at best and stupid at worst.

The parents in Dekalb wanted to stay with the current school calendar but the board voted to change it.

Then vote them out of office. That’s where they are answerable.

The state charter board that will be appointed and NOT elected? How can you vote them out you might ask?

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
8:25 am

If this law passes, what should we expect to see transpire. How soon before taxpayer dollars for education are siphoned off to fund for-profit k-12 schools designed to enrich the likes of Rupert Murdoch and company. Free FOX News broadcasts for everyone beginning in kindergarten.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 10th, 2012
8:26 am

I am certain there will be a lot of conservatives screaming about tyrants, dictators and “FREEDOM”…….. everyone knows them crickets are so loud they can drown out those screams.

Jm

October 10th, 2012
8:26 am

Sfd

You’re funny. Wrong, but funny.

Adam

October 10th, 2012
8:26 am

Jay you’re obviously missing the point. Everything in the world is all about MONEY, and if you’re being PAID to be on the school board then any opinion you express is one that you make on company time, whether you’re at home or not. They OWN you because they pay you. And education should be all about profit, just like health care and everything in life.

I’m charging you 5 cents for this opinion post.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:29 am

Then vote them out of office. That’s where they are answerable.

and if one were to look at the shameful participation rates in school board elections, one realizes that most of the keening and wailing one reads online is just so much sound and fury signifying nothing. the vast majority of Americans, I think, have no clue what their own school board is up to, don’t bother to vote up or down, don’t attend public meetings… and yet they cry and complain about property taxes, which are the funding mechanism for these schools.

(I guess I’m having one of those “we have met the enemy and they is us” moments. I’ll get better.)

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
8:29 am

FULFILLED,

I listen to American Left and the Righty XM shows in about equal amounts…I figure the truth is somewhere in between which has turned out to be an effective means for me to get a handle on the issues….I’m about as big a fan of Hartmann as of BIGED, Joh Gibson, Rush Limburger or Sean Handj*b…they all are blind red and blue sheep pandering to sponsors and the demands of stations..

It is fair to say that BO has gotten at a minimum, equal support over the past few year from Wall Street, Telecom (both of which he originally promised to bring to justice) and other big businesses needing to continue control of DC agenda…he is no different than the rest in that category..

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:31 am

Wrong, but funny.

Well thanks.

Totally-motally off-topic but I’d really really like to get your reaction to this piece (perhaps some other time/place), which I posted a few stories down but got dead-threaded.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/8-facts-prove-our-govt-not-going-broke?page=0%2C1&paging=off

America does not face a debt crisis. Nor are we likely to face one in the next 100 years. In fact, we are the last country on Earth that needs to worry about its public debt.

What’s really behind the debt histrionics is a relentless effort by these Very Important People to use a trumped-up crisis to shred the social safety net and bring forth their bleak vision of a dog-eat-dog society where government provides for no one (except the super-rich). Unfortunately, many liberals are also buying into a “debt crisis” that doesn’t exist.

indigo

October 10th, 2012
8:34 am

I suspect a conservative agenda is the fuel running this charter school engine. If this Amendment passes, look for a large number of charter schools teaching the Earth is 6,000 years old, evolution and the Big Bang are tools of the Devil and the New Testament is the proven word of God.

Science really is a candle in the dark and the winds of ignorance are strong, especially in Georgia.

Joseph

October 10th, 2012
8:36 am

It’s sad Jay that you are almost always on the wrong side of every issue. Instead of putting children first you seem to always put adults and their gubmint salaries at the top of your agenda. I have to ask again. How can you sit from your perch and comment on something you have no clue about? It’s hard to take you seriously when you know nothing about the area’s that charter schools serve. All you can do is pull up stats while in the comfort of your AJC office. Get out and take a look before spewing tripe that honestly makes you look clueless. The stats you put forth are for the most part irrelevant. Visit a charter school and then visit a local public school. Look at the difference. Look at the attitude’s of the children and their parents. They are the people that truly count! Not teacher unions! Not misguided dems who honestly don’t know the facts and simply vote how they are told.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
8:37 am

GRANNY,

Spot on…I live in Johns Creek school district and am embarassed to state my property tax nut…the newly built school(s) are indeed gleaming..I’m glad my kids get to go to good schools but it pains me to note the discrepancy between school districts…another issue is the latest trend of citihood…Johns Creek, Dunwoody, Sandy Springs and the like…I never liked the idea of new government infrastructure…which will come back to bite us.

I understand the argument over charter schools…not completely but any chance we have to improve schools without utilizing the traditional, failed strategy of throwing money at education which has borne zero fruit..

Trusslady

October 10th, 2012
8:41 am

What you have, is government that is now afraid of its people. We shot down T-SPLOST with a resounding voice, and now they are afraid we will defeat the charter amendment. Power to the people, my brothers and sisters, power to the people.

Jay

October 10th, 2012
8:43 am

“It’s sad Jay that you are almost always on the wrong side of every issue.”

Joseph, if that’s another way of saying that you and I almost always disagree, I’m quite fine with that. Doesn’t bother me in the least.

ROTFLMFAO

October 10th, 2012
8:44 am

Jay,
Doesn’t this sound more like it should be the Republicans instead of the Democrats?

Republican viewpoint – the government decides

Democrat viewpoint – the people decide

Polotics makes strange bedfellows. And I am a Republican!! :)

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:44 am

If this Amendment passes, look for a large number of charter schools teaching the Earth is 6,000 years old, evolution and the Big Bang are tools of the Devil and the New Testament is the proven word of God.

oh, I don’t know if it will be a “large number,” but any number greater than zero teaching such nonsense *and* publicly funded, is too many.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
8:46 am

“oh, I don’t know if it will be a “large number,” but any number greater than zero teaching such nonsense *and* publicly funded, is too many.”

word.

kayaker 71

October 10th, 2012
8:46 am

We wouldn’t even be having this conversation if the APS and others like it, including Clayton County, had just done their jobs. Inadequate teachers supported by strong teachers unions and entrenched superintendents with an agenda of giving education lip service, spending taxpayer’s property tax money for what?…… a 56% HS graduation rate with some who couldn’t add 2 plus 2 and are unable to even fill out a job application without help. Parents of sick and tired of this nonsense.

Mighty Righty

October 10th, 2012
8:47 am

I support any change to our education system that will return it to the high standards it once held. Clearly, the present system of Union control doesn’t work. The proof is in the results. Charter schools are a demonstrated improvement over our failing system. This debate should not be political, or should not be about who has control. The debate should be about whether Charter schools are a positive alternative to the failing education system now in place. It shouldn’t matter who is in charge. The elected school boards have failed! Period. No one should fear replacing them with some other system.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:47 am

Pol[i]tics makes strange bedfellows. And I am a Republican!

it’s like I said–I really think this one ought to be in another solar system, and well beyond the usual cons v. libs dynamic.

Put another way; there are plenty of reasonably honest Republicans out there who know that they voted for — let’s call him what he is — a crook, in Nathan Deal. they made an ideological choice. Now it’s time to deal with a consequence of that choice, and tell Deal that there are limits to what you will tolerate.

ROTFLMFAO

October 10th, 2012
8:49 am

Jay,
Doesn’t this sound more like it should be the Republicans protesting instead of the Democrats protesting?

Republican viewpoint – the government decides (usually the Democrats’ position)

Democrat viewpoint – the people decide (usually the Republicans’ position)

Politics makes strange bedfellows. And I am a Republican. :)

RESUBMITTED FOR CLARITY

Aquagirl

October 10th, 2012
8:50 am

The elected school boards have failed! Period. No one should fear replacing them with some other system.

If you want to get rid of the school boards, then get rid of them. Why are you comfortable with leaving the majority of money and control in their hands while carving out a couple of niches? Oh, wait, it’s all about the children. Or 5% of the children and their thieving pickpocket parents anyhow.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:50 am

We wouldn’t even be having this conversation if the APS

I love me some “we have to destroy the village in order to save it” arguments in the morning.

scrappy

October 10th, 2012
8:52 am

“One rule for them, another for everybody else.”

Shocking! Just Shocking that this would come from Republicans! Oh wait, no… not really, that is there take on everything.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:52 am

Why are you comfortable with leaving the majority of money and control in their hands while carving out a couple of niches?

Ooh ooh teach, I know.

It’s because such people are lazy and stupid. They would rather cast a vote for a hideous thing like this initiative because it has the word “charter” in it, than do the relatively hard work of recruiting and campaigning for better school board members.

n

October 10th, 2012
8:53 am

There are hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars at stake for the corporations who will build and run these schools. That is why their sponsor/crony political alliies are so rabid in their campaign of support. Follow the money.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
8:53 am

STANDS,

I looked at your post regarding the support of the left to continue accumulating debt as it is not a problem…I couldn’t disagree more and this is what scares me the most about left’s perception (and sometimes that right…alhough they are more vocal in attempting to address this) that it is not a problem to continue selling debt…this is our #1 security issue…IMO…the odd thing is that despite promises of DODD-FRANK to eliminate reliance on rating agencies who are the root to the big collapse, this has not occurred…under BO and current congress total lack of leadership, we lost our credit rating…oddly we have to borrow more money to maintain same….that’s nuts.

We are heading for another downgrade in the coming years regardless who is in office….keeping on this trajectory will increase our security risk and result in debt investments in US no longer being the gold standard..especially if we keep putting more currency in play..

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
8:55 am

MIGHTYRIGHTY

When did our education outcomes register as “high”? What was the metric used to define this?

jconservative

October 10th, 2012
8:55 am

Never vote to increase the power of the central government.

larry

October 10th, 2012
8:56 am

Jay………..Jay……….. um, Sam Olens, line 1.

Now you’ve done it.

The local school boards do not have 1st admendment rights. But Wal-Mart, headquartered in another state , pouring in millions in support of this admendment, has 1st admendment rights.

Citizens United indeed.

oy!

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
8:56 am

“Clearly, the present system of Union control doesn’t work.”

clearly, you don’t know the first thing about Georgia teachers.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
8:57 am

STANDS,

Here is the counter argument to the left “deficits are ok” pitch…

http://midknightgraphs.blogspot.com/2011/01/debt-service-costs-and-looming-crisis.html#!/2011/01/debt-service-costs-and-looming-crisis.html

kayaker 71

October 10th, 2012
8:57 am

Sure, let’s hang onto the status quo. Let’s just keep on graduating only half of our students and call that doing your job. What if a lifeguard was only successful at saving a half of drowning swimmers….. how about the fire dept only putting out half of the fires that they are called on to help save…… Would this be acceptable? Certainly not. Why, then is it OK for anyone, no matter their political persuasion, to accept this kind of job performance from our government schools?

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
8:58 am

Only a con would think that having an outfit like a Phoenix University providing for-profit “education” at the k-12 level is a step forward. Then again, given their level of education I shouldn’t be surprised.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

October 10th, 2012
8:59 am

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…

October 10th, 2012
8:37 am
GRANNY,

Spot on…I live in Johns Creek school district and am embarassed to state my property tax nut…the newly built school(s) are indeed gleaming..I’m glad my kids get to go to good schools but it pains me to note the discrepancy between school districts…another issue is the latest trend of citihood…Johns Creek, Dunwoody, Sandy Springs and the like…I never liked the idea of new government infrastructure…which will come back to bite us.

I understand the argument over charter schools…not completely but any chance we have to improve schools without utilizing the traditional, failed strategy of throwing money at education which has borne zero fruit..

.
.
.
.
Throwing money around is just plain stupid.

Effectively investing money where it needs to be is smart.

Charter schools are not the answer.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
8:59 am

SR @ 8.53, if you’re something more than the concern troll I fear you might be, if you are actually an intelligent, independent thinker, you will eventually come around to my way of thinking on this.

I know it is more than a tad counter-intuitive in no small part because one hears so many supposedly liberal folks mouthing the same “debt baaaad… must tighten bellllttttts….” stuff that benefits a tiny group at the expense of the vast majority.

In the meantime, if you want to continue tilting at something as superficial as a freakin’ credit agency score, had at it. Tell Rocinante I said “hi.”

larry

October 10th, 2012
9:01 am

“Clearly, the present system of Union control doesn’t work.”

Clearly, if the present system had Union control , you might have a point.

Mary Elizabeth

October 10th, 2012
9:01 am

In my opinion, there are powerful political forces at work behind this constitutional amendment. Wal-Mart heiress has contributed $250,000. toward seeing it passed. The bill’s sponsor, HR 1162, was Rep. Jan Jones, who sits on ALEC’s Educational Task Force, and may be chair of that Task Force, according to one poster. When I attended Georgia’s House Committtee Meeting last winter in which some committed citizens opposed this amendment, the Committee’s Chairman was was so incensed that he was heard to say, outloud, as if to himsellf, but so audible that the whole audience heard him say, “We are going to pass this bill,” before the votes were even cast.

This Constitutional Amendment is unnessary. There already exists another means of establishing state charter schools, when parents might be denied authority to establish the charter of their choice by their local school district, and that means is through the State Board of Education. Georgia’s BOE, by law, can now establish state charter schools, and has already established well over a hundred of them.

This Constitutional Amendment would establish a parallel school delivery system, to Georgia’s traditional public school system, which would lead ultlimately to vouchers being used for the privatization of public schools. Even before vouchers would be passed, private management corporations would have a vested interest in these schools. That means that billions of dollars of Georgia’s tax property tax money, which was meant for the education of ALL of Georgia’s school children – equally – would be available to for-profit managers of quasi-private public schools. Children for profit. Teachers as commodities to that profit.

The forces of power behind this bill, such as Gov. Deal, Rep. Jones, and the many other Georgia legislators who are members of ALEC, such as Sen. Majority Leader Chip Rogers, thought that they had this amendment easily on track for passage into state law, once it had cleared legislative passage.

This bill is not about education so much as it is about profit and control of education by powerful forces in our nation who have an aversion toward “government” and government agencies such as traditional educational “government” schools. This amendment has the power to change educational delivery in Georgia to satisfy the nearly rapid Republican ideological agenda of privitazing public education, as well as most public “government” institutions. They want the wealthy, powerful elite to be in control even of public education. That is reflective of their the hierarchial vision for America and of Americans that is prevalent in in the present Republican Party.

This ideology is the opposite of the egalitarian vision established for our nation in our founding document, the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson knew that the wealthy, powerful elite would try to use the unsuspecting masses for their own financial self-interests and that is why he advocated for the public education of the masses, paid for by all citizens through public taxes – so that the masses would be aware, and not manipulated to be unaware, that their rights could be taken away from them by the powerful. This Constitutional Amendment would establish in Georgia’s Constitution an appointed Commission on Charter Schools. That Commission would contain ALL Republican political leaders, according to the rules under which that body would exist. To be clear, those rules do not state that the members must be of the Republican Party (or Democratic Party), but as so conveniently falls in Georgia, those members will all be Republican members in this Republican dominated state, such as the Lt. Gov. Republican leaders in Georgia’s legislature, I believe. Rare is the Republican who disagrees with the Republican party line. Moreover, the intent of establishing that state Charter School Commission in Georgia far exceeds Georgia’s interests, in my opinion.

Don’t be fooled. Public education as we have known it is on the line with this amendment and ultimately the power of the average citizen to have a meaningful voice may be on the line because of the ability of powerful forces that are behind this amendment to wield their way, and their interests, in Georgia. (Btw, I support charter schools that would be limited in numbers and that would work with traditional public schools so that educational delivery in Georgia would be wisely balanced to serve ALL students in Georgia, equally well. That can already be accomplished through local school districts and through Georgia’s State Board of Education.

This Amendment is unnecessary and it is highly political, imo. Vote NO in NOvember to Amendment 1.

Joseph

October 10th, 2012
9:01 am

Jay:

But does it not bother you that the majority of people in this state disagree with you? Georgia is a bright red state that’s run efficiently except for the educational system. And why is that? Because many local school boards along with administrators are corrupt. That’s a fact Jay.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
9:01 am

JAY,

Where does this release by GAE stand in terms of free speech? Probably apples and oranges but I find it interesting nonetheless..

http://gae2.org/content.asp?ContentId=1655

b-troll

October 10th, 2012
9:03 am

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/aps-boss-says-buckhead-school-is-failing/nSYmr/

The protest garbage from these ninnies is non-sensical.

Davis is trying to clean up. And these morons are protesting. I hate to say it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some of it is race driven.

BuckeyeInGa

October 10th, 2012
9:03 am

If corporations want to open charter schools without taxpayer money, they’re free to do so. Why do they need an amendment and separate government agency to do so? We don’t need another shady backroom government agency in this state. Put the money towards the public school system, not out of state corporations who really care little about our kids.

The primary concern here should be our CHILDREN. But its not, its about money and power. Governor Deal and all Georgia politicians should be ashamed.

Agree..They can always open a private school.

DJ Sniper

October 10th, 2012
9:03 am

People, the charter schools themselves are not the issue. The issue is that Amendment 1 will take the power away from the people and give it to a state appointed board that has no oversight at all. That’s the problem most of us have with this amendment.

Also, the bullying by Nathan Deal and Sam Olens is reprehensible. If they don’t want taxpayer dollars voicing opposition to this, then taxpayer dollars shouldn’t be used to support it either. This is what you get when you elect a crook like him.

Jay

October 10th, 2012
9:04 am

Joseph, we don’t know what a majority of Georgians believe on this matter, and even if we did, it would not bother me in the least to be in the minority.

If you change your own views to conform with those of the majority, I do not.

larry

October 10th, 2012
9:05 am

ALEC’s Educational Task Force,

Contridiction in terms. ALEC doesnt believe in education.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
9:06 am

Lots of little coups, adding up to one big coup.

These people will stop at nothing.

b-troll

October 10th, 2012
9:06 am

ME is long winded. All the time.

Roll Back

October 10th, 2012
9:07 am

Georgia is a bright red state that’s run efficiently except for the educational system.

______

Eat those words! Georgia has had one of the HIGHEST unemployment rate for years. Is Georgia not a member of these United States?..

JohnnyReb

October 10th, 2012
9:07 am

Moonbat logic continues to escape most of the populous. This will be confirmed in the Nov election. The charter school amendment will pass because it’s what the people want – they have had it with public school systems in not all, but too many cases. School boards should be banned from using public funds to campaign against the amendment because they have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. Comparing them to Deal and other state officials/agencies is apples to oranges.

bob

October 10th, 2012
9:07 am

Lets stick with the status quo, after all, its working so well ! Look at what just happened at North Atlanta High School. The parents and students that care just got the shaft by APS. What happened was nothing new and that is why we need to gut public education as much as possible. NAHS has a core group from the neighborhood and a larger group bused in. The core group is active in the school and the parents of those bused in do little. The core group pays most of the property tax, the bused group does not. The people let go were liked by the core group made up by people in the neighborhood, but Beverly Frauds replacement , Davis, told the parents that pay the bills and volunteer time and run the PTA a lie. Davis told these people that the state was going to take over NAHS, a lie told by a liar. NAHS has a higher grad rate than many APS high schools yet none of those are being eyed by the state ? If the state gets involved do they go after the worst performing schools or those in the middle and do they go into a district and take over one school ? The worst part of it is that if the city didn’t bus kids from other neighborhoods then NAHS would be at the top of the list. This is how it works with the left, screw over the group like the involved parents in order to coddle those that could care less. I have an open mind, if someone can tell me why the Parents of students at NAHS should be happy by the way this was handled please fill them in.

Jay

October 10th, 2012
9:07 am

Stevie Ray, I don’t understand your question.

hiram

October 10th, 2012
9:09 am

The two-bit con artists who dominate Georgia’s politics are only concerned about their bottom lines. Their attitude is, if the voters were dumb enough to elect them, they deserve what they get – the welfare of the citizens is the least of their worries.

Metro Coach

October 10th, 2012
9:09 am

Why are liberals so anti-choice? Aren’t you supposed to be the party of choice? You know, like abortion on demand, gay rights, etc. Or is it that you’re afraid that if families are allowed to choose which schools their children attend, and subsequently succeed at those schools, people will realize that the entire government controlled public schools are not the be all end all of education as you would have everyone believe? Democrats, the anti-life, anti-choice party.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
9:10 am

” The charter school amendment will pass because it’s what the people want ”

obviously. which is why they’re shutting down all forms of protest.

Roll Back

October 10th, 2012
9:10 am

The charter school amendment will pass because it’s what the people want – they have had it with public school systems in not all, but too many cases.

____

They said that T-SPLOST would pass also. Does anyone know the outcome?

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
9:11 am

“Aren’t you supposed to be the party of choice?”

you are free to send your child to a private school anytime you like. you HAVE choice.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
9:12 am

Where have I heard the name Sam Olens before?

Don’t tell me! I just know I’ve heard it before somewhere.

#_career_ladder_for_hack_career_politicians

JC Cunningham

October 10th, 2012
9:13 am

The only way to beat a bully is to stand up to them. This fight is not over, until we, the people say it’s over!! Olens and Deal can’t silence a whole state. The only way to ensure that Amendment 1 (Charter School Amendment) is defeated in November, so for each and everyone of us to get off our butts and start your very own grass roots campaign. Start by making your own flyer (or copy an existing one) print out a couple hundred and go door to door in your neighborhood. Then go to your local high school football game this Friday and place flyers on car widows. This Sunday excuse yourself while the choir is singing and place flyers on every car there. Set up your very own phone bank by personally calling everyone on your contact list in your cell phone. PLEASE don’t assume that every friend and family member is aware of this Amendment. Encourage friends to do the same. If just 5000 people throughout the state of GA. would start their very own grass roots campaign this week and reached just 100 people we would reach 500,000 potential voters by October 15th, the first day of early voting. Olens and Deal can’t stop us from protecting our Public Schools and our children, only we can do that, by doing nothing and that is exactly what they want us to do.

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:13 am

Rupert Murdoch already “educates” many of the cons via FOX News. He probably figures he has earned those teacher’s salaries.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
9:13 am

Metro Coach: “Why are liberals so anti-choice?”

What a stupid question.

BuckeyeInGa

October 10th, 2012
9:13 am

@Bob 9:07
NAHS has a core group from the neighborhood and a larger group bused in. The core group is active in the school and the parents of those bused in do little. The core group pays most of the property tax, the bused group does not. The people let go were liked by the core group made up by people in the neighborhood,

What does the above statement has to do with what’s going on over at North Atlanta? I’m missing your point?

Jm

October 10th, 2012
9:14 am

Sfd

Your 8:31

On points

1. The debt is not leveling off as is suggested. Japan’s economy is also not considered “strong” as they suggest. They also suggest America is considered string and stable. The downgrade should suggest otherwise. Plus, short term interest rates are controlled by the government, not the market, so low rates are not a sign of investor confidence per se.

I could punch holes in the other 8 points, but these morons have buried so many false notions in their first point, that I don’t have the patience to go through all 8.

Sfd, if you can’t recognize that post as a bunch of garbage, hopefully you can now.

Joseph

October 10th, 2012
9:14 am

Jay:

We do know that the democrat ballot measure did really well. The Republican version will certainly do much better with a helluva lot more turnout. I have intimate knowledge of this issue Jay while you don’t. Again I ask? How you can sit from you perch so far away and think you know better. The liberal mindset is numbing to those who are truly informed….

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
9:14 am

STANDS,

The fact that you choose to challenge my intellect instead of offering further, bi-partisan support for your point speaks volumes…anyhow your opinion of me is not my business…if the LIBS are ok with a plan to continue borrowing money, despite our maturity in years which is among the lowest and is a much better measure of risk…that plus the factor of when the interest on the debt is higher than economic growth, the larger our annual surplus needs to be…here is another…as bi-partisan as I can find, argument against your support for continued debt spending…if you remain interested in the issue as opposed to the typical DEM personal attack retorts..

Mary Elizabeth

October 10th, 2012
9:15 am

Bob, 9:07 am

You don’t have to “stick with the status quo,” Bob. If you like the idea of establishing state charter schools, just apply to the State Board of Education to get that accomplished. I repeat – this Constitutional Amendment is unncessary for the establishment of state charter schools. Georgia’s State Board of Education already has that authority.

DJ Sniper

October 10th, 2012
9:15 am

JohnnyReb, I have news for you: A lot of people on both sides of the spectrum are opposed to this amendment.

MetroCoach, this issue really isn’t about liberals vs. conservatives. Go back and read my last post. I’ll say it again: It’s not about the schools themselves; it’s about voting power being taken away from the people. Why is that so hard to understand for some of you?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
9:15 am

Look before I leap...

October 10th, 2012
9:16 am

Jm

October 10th, 2012
8:03 am

The current system is broken.

Almost all remedies must be tried until a solution is found.

State charter schools are one such tool.

Now that’s pretty funny,
Sounds a bit like strapping wings and a folding chair to your lawnmower and hoping it will fly.

http://www.wright-brothers.org/History_Wing/Aviations_Attic/UFOs/UFOs.htm

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
9:17 am

JM see my link above…incredulous to think our solution is to continue to borrow money, especially from those who have exhibited aggressive tactics to undermine our system..

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:17 am

Gotta keep our kids in government school so we can keep cranking out mindless, brainwashed liberals.

Jay

October 10th, 2012
9:19 am

Interesting that supporters of the amendment are willing, even eager to acknowledge in this format what leaders of the Amendment 1 crowd deny deny deny in public:

This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.

Dori K.

October 10th, 2012
9:19 am

Rather than debate the charter schools issue as a whole, I’d like to address what I think is a fallacy in the specific content of this column. Jay, you complain that Attorney General Sam Olens didn’t tell the governor to cease and desist his support for the amendment when he issued his advisory letter to State Superintendent John Barge.

I may be misinformed, but my suspicion is that, as a matter of course, Olens only offers counsel on topics he’s asked to advise on. It’s much like a court case–a judge is not supposed to make broad, sweeping rulings, but is supposed to decide only the case before him. Olens was asked for advice by Barge and he gave it. If amendment opponents believe the governor should have to follow the same rules of staying out of the debate, they have now sought the proper remedy by raising those issues with the A.G. themselves.

All of that said, I would prefer if neither side were using this tactic. I believe in the free marketplace of ideas and don’t like to see debate cut off by lawsuits.

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:19 am

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
9:13 am

“Metro Coach: “Why are liberals so anti-choice?””

“What a stupid question.”

Liberalism 101…don’t answer tough question, just mock and deflct attention….

Jm

October 10th, 2012
9:19 am

Sfd

This is a real gem: “the cut in our AAA rating should be viewed for what it really is: a political act to help Wall St support the Republicans”

Sfd, seriously dude, don’t read propaganda.

Joseph

October 10th, 2012
9:20 am

Jay I’ll take a quote from your hero Obama. ‘You may want to move on to something else” because you along with your rabid followers are certainly clueless…..

Joseph

October 10th, 2012
9:20 am

Have you ever set foot in a charter school Jay????

Classic Conservative

October 10th, 2012
9:21 am

Know this (no public funds were expended to send this message) The so-called charter school amendment is not about school choice. It is about letting somebody you don’t know and have no influence over decide how to educate your children. It is about profit for private companies. Many of the corporate school managers have agreements that allow them to usurp the powers of the school directors if the corporation experiences a loss. They control the books and will likely experience a paper loss in order to take over. Many of the agreements also provide that if there is a profit over the budget’s expectations, it goes to the corporation.
I’m okay with charters by local school boards, BUT I’m wildly against this liberal state takeover of local control. Vote NO on the charter amendment.

mbtc

October 10th, 2012
9:21 am

“Clearly, the present system of Union control doesn’t work.”

Truely showing your ignorance here. Georgia has no teacher’s unions to speak of (primarily associations like Paga and GAE)and the local versions of the AFT (union) are defanged with no right to strike.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
9:21 am

“Gotta keep our kids in government school so we can keep cranking out mindless, brainwashed liberals.”

Marist / Woodward / Pius, etc, are ready when you are …

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:21 am

Are the cons still whining about their debt. Tax cuts do not pay your bills. Cons need to own up to their debts and pay them instead of trying to unload their bills on others.

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:21 am

“This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.”

And what’s wrong with that? Public schools are a miserable failure.

Of course, you libs want to double down on Obama’s failed, miserable presidency, so I guess we might as well do the same with our kids, right?

USMale

October 10th, 2012
9:22 am

First, kill the public schools by lack of support. Then roll out your vouchers/charter schools to establish a separate system. It sort of reminds me of how Mitch McConnell and gang have worked to block any jobs or budget bills and then complain that there are no jobs, so you need to elect someone different. This is getting old, but I guess it works on the dimly lit among us.

mbtc

October 10th, 2012
9:22 am

To propose that Ga unions control education is laughable.

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:23 am

“Cons need to own up to their debts and pay them instead of trying to unload their bills on others.”

LMAO. As opposed to libs like Taxpayer who want the top 10% to pay all their debts.

Jm

October 10th, 2012
9:23 am

Stevie Ray

Agreed

The debt is a mortal danger to our country

The deficits must be reduced fast, but not instantaneously

Joseph

October 10th, 2012
9:24 am

Jay:

This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.

This sounds a great idea considering how many billions a year is wasted… Think of how many teachers who are simply out for themselves and not looking out for the best interest of the children. Think of the corrupt administrators along with corrupt school boards.

Schools need to be run more efficient just like the federal gubmint. To liberals this is simply to hard to understand because they are all of the mindset that the more money you throw at a problem the better….

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:24 am

Perhaps cons are looking forward to using a voucher to help cover the cost of sending their children to the Paul Broun School of Higher Larning.

Mary Elizabeth

October 10th, 2012
9:25 am

State Superintendent of Schools, Dr. John Barge, should be awarded a “Profile In Courage” award through the Kennedy Center, in my opinion. He is a Republican leader who stood for educational principles over political interests. And, thereafter has had to suffer intense stresses thrust upon him by party line Republican leaders in Georgia for having stood for educational principles. Thank you Superintendent Barge. Many have noticed, and have appreciated, your courageous stand in behalf of public education and in behalf of the education of ALL of Georgia’s school children, equally.

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:26 am

Yes, Ben, I want the top ten percent to pay all their debt. :roll:

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:26 am

“Perhaps cons are looking forward to using a voucher to help cover the cost of sending their children to the Paul Broun School of Higher Larning.”

It would be a damn sight better than sending them to Clayton County, Dekalb County, or APS, wouldn’t it?

Ronin

October 10th, 2012
9:26 am

From a probability standpoint, most likely the bill will pass.
The haven of government contract jobs will be partially replaced with employees that can be dismissed without the bureaucratic review boards.

Charter employees will not participate in the state benefits program which include medical and defined benefit plan (pensions). Long term, it will cost the state much less than the current system.

Will it create a better school environment? Maybe, maybe not, but the current business model that is public education will have to adapt or be assimilated. (that’s for you SFD) 7of9.

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:26 am

“Yes, Ben, I want the top ten percent to pay all their debt. ”

No, you want them to pay all YOUR debt. And you know it.

USMale

October 10th, 2012
9:27 am

Ben Schlockly, the only thing I’ve found to be miserable about Obama’s presidency is the single-minded, anti-American opposition by the GOP to anything that might help the economy. The plan has clearly been to cause as many problems as possible and then blame it on Obama in order to get a Repub. elected this November. Given that the average IQ is 100 and people don’t remember who was president when the economy tanked (note that the GOP convention TOTALLY AVOIDED mentioning GWB), they’ve got a shot – albeit a very, very slim shot.

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:27 am

It would be a damn sight better than sending them to Clayton County, Dekalb County, or APS, wouldn’t it?

Did you attempt to graduate from all three school systems and are hence sharing your personal experiences, Ben.

Jay

October 10th, 2012
9:27 am

“And what’s wrong with that? Public schools are a miserable failure.”

Then those supporting Amendment 1 should be willing to make that argument, in public and honestly. Instead they lie, claiming that this has nothing to do with any attempt to undercut traditional public education. It is a campaign based on deceit, claiming one goal while in reality pursuing a much different goal.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
9:28 am

Ben Shockley: “Liberalism 101…don’t answer tough question, just mock and deflct attention….”

What does my reply have to do with “liberalism”?

By the way, Mary Elizabeth, maybe if your guy Obama and all his pals (Arne Duncan and Rahm Emanual key among them) weren’t just over the moon for this privatization, charter junk and instead had offered a solid, cogent defense of our public schools as institution, maybe the state of the debate nationally would be a little different.

How’s that possible, Ben Shockley and Mary Elizabeth, that the big “liberal” Barack Obama is right in line with the Sam Olens and Nathan Deals of the world on this critical issue?

Could it be that your definition of “liberalism” might need to be re-thought? Hmm.

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:28 am

No, you want them to pay all YOUR debt. And you know it.

No Ben. I want them to pay their debt but you don’t know it.

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:28 am

Dr. John Barge is hardly courageous. He’s a self-serving beaurocrat who doesn’t want to lose power and influence. He cares about himself and the public education establishment more than he cares about educating kids.

td

October 10th, 2012
9:29 am

Aquagirl

October 10th, 2012
7:32 am

Small gub’mint and free speech-lovin’ conservatives at work.

No, Establishment Republicans at work and this Tea party member of the party has been screaming at them for months.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
9:29 am

JAY,

I don’t either to be fair…I thought you were suggesting that they can’ voice their opinions but after re-reading your column, i see you are referring to the fact they have zero ability to legislatively challenge this..

I also agree that unelected and unaccountable ‘Czars” on a federal or local level are poor strategy to accomplish anything truly on behalf of the peoples desire..

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:30 am

“No Ben. I want them to pay their debt but you don’t know it.”

LOL. The top 10% pay 90% of the taxes. And Taxpayer thinks they don’t pay their debts.

Liberals are hilarious.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
9:32 am

This is a real gem: “the cut in our AAA rating should be viewed for what it really is: a political act to help Wall St support the Republicans”

Works for me.

sneak peak into education

October 10th, 2012
9:34 am

I really think that the negative publicity about this actually helps the NO camp. And remember, the NO camp falls into 2 categories

1. Those who are against charter schools in any form.
2. Those who support charter schools but are against the constitutional amendment because it creates a non-elected board that duplicates a process already available and increases the size of government.

According to many posters, it sounds like many fall into the latter category. I feel that the strong-arm move by the AG and Glen Delk absolutely helps to bolster the NO vote. People don’t like bullies and especially those who look like they are trying to take the voice away from a group of taxpayers for the benefit of others.

Please remember that the group behind this amendment, ALEC, is a policy writing group whose agenda is to privatize education with the hopes of making big bucks for their backers.

ALEC’s agenda is as follows:
1. Introduce market factors into schools, especially the teaching profession
2. Privatize education through vouchers, charters and tax incentives
3. Increase student testing and reporting
4. REDUCE THE INFLUENCE OF OR ELIMINATE LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND SCHOOL BOARDS

Please note the last point in particular; this is their way to reduce your democratic right to vote at the local level. Why would any sane person want to do this? This is not a conspiracy theory; it is already happening and at a greater rate in some parts of our country-see Louisiana for one to see the disaster that these policies mean for public education. Yes, the proponents will say “it’s about the children” but it’s really about big business getting their hands on taxpayers money. Don’t let them fool you.

I strongly feel that the opponents to this amendment felt that they would not see any opposition to this move and it would be an easy ride for them but the voters of Georgia have got to be smarter than that and realize that the amendment has been written to purposely mislead the public. They know it.

VOTE NO in NOvember.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
9:34 am

and I see our Ben Shockley has started his “work” day.

I gots to go actually produce some goods/services of tangible value. See y’all later…

DJ Sniper

October 10th, 2012
9:34 am

Good luck getting Amendment 1 supporters to make that argument Jay. We both know it won’t happen.

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
9:35 am

Oh, one other thing:

APS! BOOGAH BOOGAH!

/drive-by

Jay

October 10th, 2012
9:35 am

The reason they lie is because most people are pretty satisfied with their public schools, and they ought to be. Even here in Georgia, test scores on nationally standardized tests have risen slowly but steadily. ( http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/ )

So to achieve their goals, those who wish to dismantle public education have to do so through deception.

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
9:35 am

“First, kill the public schools by lack of support. Then roll out your vouchers/charter schools to establish a separate system”

“My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub” – Grover Norquist

td

October 10th, 2012
9:36 am

Ben Shockley

October 10th, 2012
9:28 am

We agree 95% of the time but I totally disagree with you on this one and support Dr. Barge’s decision 100%. This Constitutional amendment is in no way conservative. This amendment takes away control and accountability from local control and gives it to a state wide unelected commission. There is no way anyone can claim this is a conservative philosophy and is totally wrong.

mbtc

October 10th, 2012
9:37 am

“The top 10% pay 90% of the taxes”

The top 10% control 90% of the wealth, thus benefit the most from living in this “exceptional” country; why shouldn’t they pay the most in taxes?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

October 10th, 2012
9:39 am

Well, maybe if they hurry up, in a couple years I can send little Nathan Zell George to one of them charter schools so he can learn about Adam and Eve and the Stork. Instead of this Evolution junk and being told about you-know-what..

Have a good Hump Day everybody.

DJ Sniper

October 10th, 2012
9:39 am

I really want Grover Norquist to crawl back under whatever rock he came from. He is very dangerous for this country.

USMale

October 10th, 2012
9:39 am

The top 10% pay 70% of the income taxes collected, not 90%, but they get more benefits too. When our military goes to war, whose wealth and investments are they protecting? Are the poor asking for a new domed stadium? Are the poor benefitting from money spent with Haliburton, Lockheed, and Boeing? All these “handout” payments that go to poor people go right back into the hands of Kraft, Exxon, Southern Company, ATT, et al. Just the other day, the CEO of Kraft warned Congress not to cut payments to the poor. You think it was because he’s a generous guy?

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:43 am

LOL. The top 10% pay 90% of the taxes. And Taxpayer thinks they don’t pay their debts.

Who do you think benefitted from that 16 trillion dollar debt. Let me guess. Food stamp recipients. LOL. How much should the people and corporations that amass the majority of the wealth pay, Ben.

mbtc

October 10th, 2012
9:44 am

USMale:”The top 10% pay 70% of the income taxes collected”

Busted! Thanks for the correction. I was admittedly shooting from the hip, but knew the numbers were in the neighborhood.

Tinkerella

October 10th, 2012
9:45 am

The people of Georgia are SO desperate for successful schools, they will buy into anything at this point. This is why it is so difficult for many to completely understand this issue. Most people who support it don’t understand the layers of political poopoo that has been frosted over this piece and have no idea who ALEC even is. All they hear is the word “change” and they are on that bandwagon. Really, that is the problem to begin with….no one takes the time to even know who they are voting for on their school boards. So-called conservatives want smaller government and then they roll out this steamer. I have been looking into the failure of the schools for years now and understand why this is not a good idea but most people vote by sound bytes from the media or a poster on the side of the road.

Ronin

October 10th, 2012
9:45 am

Jay: “So to achieve their goals, those who wish to dismantle public education have to do so through deception.”

You’re chasing a smoked red herring. Charter schools are public schools too. They will allow more individual choices vs. standard district schools. Hmm… that may be the rub, individual choice.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

October 10th, 2012
9:45 am

This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.

Thats exactly what this is. Once they do that then they can control the curriculum.

Then Evolution is out and Creationism is in.

They are already doing just that in Louisiana. With public money.

Eventually Georgia schools will just become Sunday School class.

Adam

October 10th, 2012
9:46 am

Off topic a bit, but I think I understand finally part of what the mentality is behind successful businessmen and perhaps successful politicians: Never admit failure. Ever. Even when it’s staring you in the face. never admit you were wrong. Never own up to mistakes. Ever. Sell yourself as always right no matter what, and people will believe it. Swallow it hook line and sinker. And never admit this is your strategy.

Mick

October 10th, 2012
9:46 am

People like ben sit on the sidelines and heap contempt and scorn on public schools but if he ever had to try and teach a public school class with students learning at three different levels or learning disabilities, he would be a roasted & thoroughly toasted con by lunchtime…

Mary Elizabeth

October 10th, 2012
9:47 am

“Charter employees will not participate in the state benefits program which include medical and defined benefit plan (pensions).”
================================

It should be noted that Rep. Jan Jones, who sponsored the Constitutional Amendment bill, also sponsored another bill that disallowed teachers in state charter schools from becoming members of Georgia’s Teacher Retirement System.

There is a long-ranged (actually not so long-ranged) plan to dismantle public education and public school teachers having retirement benefits in Georgia. Just as the Republican ideological plan is to create Social Security in which America’s citizens will have their own 401k, stock market dependent Social Security, and Vouchers for 80 year olds instead of Medicare, they want to take away all public (and private) pensions. And they want to accomplish this by pitting private employed average workers against public employed average workers. Who wins in this scenario? Not the general public and not the average middle/working class American, but those such as the Koch Brothers, who control the top eschelon of power and corporate interests in this nation, and have an ideological mission to dismantle public “government” programs that benefit the average American.

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
9:47 am

So to achieve their goals, those who wish to dismantle public education have to do so through deception.

What we need are more hidden cameras. They have a way of shining a light on those that use deceit to further their agendas.

Mary Elizabeth

October 10th, 2012
9:47 am

Thank you for this article and this thread, Jay.

Mick

October 10th, 2012
9:50 am

mary elizabeth

Yes, you are correct and how short sighted can they be? Do they really want to create a nation of elderly paupers? Seems that way…

Roll Back

October 10th, 2012
9:51 am

Dr. John Barge is hardly courageous. He’s a self-serving beaurocrat who doesn’t want to lose power and influence. He cares about himself and the public education establishment more than he cares about educating kids.

__________

Was he ELECTED or APPOINTED by Governor Deal or WE the PEOPLE?

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

October 10th, 2012
9:51 am

The top 10% control 90% of the wealth, thus benefit the most from living in this “exceptional” country; why shouldn’t they pay the most in taxes?

Exactly.

“Why shouldn’t the American people take half my money from me? I took all of it from them.”

Edward Albert Filene (1869-1937)

Edward Albert Filene (September 3, 1860, Salem, Massachusetts – September 26, 1937, Paris, France) was an American businessman, social entrepreneur and philanthropist. He is best known for building the Filene’s department store chain and for his decisive role in pioneering credit unions across the United States.

larry

October 10th, 2012
9:52 am

I really want Grover Norquist to crawl back under whatever rock he came from. He is very dangerous for this country.

I second that.

USMale

October 10th, 2012
9:52 am

Now, have we all converted those of the other side to our positions? No?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
9:54 am

STANDS,

If the winners of a negative hit on our credit rating benefits wall street, it benefits both parties in close to equal fashion..

BTW, are you up to speed on the implementation of DODD FRANK relative to the credence afforded the rating agencies, the leading culprit IMO of meltdown? They were supposed to implement via SEC, regulations that eliminated conflicts of interest relative to rating agencies historic practices and this like…what do you suppose the status of these required new SEC rules?

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/09/17/sec-gives-up-on-web-schedules-for-dodd-frank-rules/

bob

October 10th, 2012
9:55 am

Here is another gem from Davis “Student: Why weren’t parents notified of changes?
Davis: “That is not going to a happen. There will never be a time, either with lead time or without lead time, when I seek permission from parents.” Thats right taxpayers, shut the hell up and move along, you have no say in the matter of how WE run the show, pay your taxes and quit whining is my interpretation of that response.
Student: How will the new administration be able to succeed with hostility they will face from students. “Other than the counseling you mentioned.” (In earlier question on how students, coming back tomorrow from a break, will cope, Davis said counselors will be on hand.)” There you go, we will have counselors come in and tell you how to cope with Me telling you to shut up and go away, you are a parent and i don’t listen to you. So APS is still paying the released staff, paying 8 people to replace 4 people and paying counselors and you smart progressives fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo. Davis personal slap down of taxpayers cost Davis nothing out of his pocket. And why didn’t davis go to the worst performing schools and start there ?

straitroad

October 10th, 2012
9:57 am

This seems to be a very simple issue. If a school receives public money, it should be governed by a publicly elected board. Education get’s danced around every time it comes up. The problem with education isn’t lack of money or staffing or anything else. Students with parents who give a rip perform well in school, plain and simple. Until the culture in this country changes in that regard, the problem will persist.

Citizen of the World

October 10th, 2012
9:58 am

Thank you, Jay.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
9:59 am

ADAM,

Agreed especially with respect to BO and the DEMS and GOP in particular…seems most folks blogging here and other sites will defend their candidates no matter what…

IMO all this election hubris akin to Jerry Springer, is simply an argument over which color gowns to wrap a cancer ridden government corpse…nobody seems to mind that the system is broken thus all we can expect are flawed results…due to our interests being subordinated to special interests and re-election, we can expect no different results regardless who wins this presidential auction…

b-troll

October 10th, 2012
10:00 am

“The reason they lie is because most people are pretty satisfied with their public schools, and they ought to be.” – Jay Bookman

No they shouldn’t. Measured international American schools stink, and measured nationally, Georgia schools stink pretty badly. So in the developed world, Georgia schools are a cess-pool.

Ronald Reagan Parkway

October 10th, 2012
10:02 am

Just say NO to the Charter School Amendment…and if you did NOT register by October 9, YOU will NOT be able to vote on November 6.

b-troll

October 10th, 2012
10:02 am

bob

“Davis: “That is not going to a happen. There will never be a time, either with lead time or without lead time, when I seek permission from parents.” ”

This is called management doing its job. Finally. You don’t need parental input to know who is or isn’t doing a good job.

b-troll

October 10th, 2012
10:04 am

bob, are you racist? Just curious.

Because most business groups, foundations, and others that look closely at APS think Davis is doing a great job and only hope he stays longer.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

October 10th, 2012
10:05 am

what JAY doesnt mention is that the LOCAL control doesn’t like CHARTER schools because if the charters are successful then it shows that the LOCALS are incompetent.

ONLY LIBERALS can on one hand DEMAND that WASHINGTON take control because its best for the GOOD of the people…….. and then DEMAND that control be given to the LOCAL level because you cant trust those in higher office

bob

October 10th, 2012
10:06 am

Mary Elizabeth, teachers should have to pay Social Security or I should not. SS is a ripoff and it has no trust fund, it’s been spent. Be happy your reps did a good job by getting you exempted from it.

kawasaki kid

October 10th, 2012
10:07 am

Republicans worship money and power; that is their true religion. Money makes career-minded politicos beholden to big campaign donors. “Privatizing” government functions means inserting for-profit middle-men who’ll be happy to give their elected benefactors a “piece of the action”, with plenty left over to buy themselves million-dollar beach houses, all at taxpayer expense.

JamVet

October 10th, 2012
10:09 am

Georgia’s schools are only a small part of the problem.

Georgia’s students are the big problem.

Look nor father than their parents on this forum for reasons why.

Most have seemingly not cracked a book of note since high school.

Every single day here we see these so-called conservatives who can barely spell, whose vocabulary would not pass a high school course, who don’t know with any degree of mastery, our nation’s history, much less world history, who are as scientifically illiterate as a globally cooled fifth grader in North Korea, who have no clue as to how our working class American families have been decimated for forty years and who are fiercely proud of their ignorance.

The problem is intractable.

Go to virtually any all white school in rural Georgia and you will see for yourself. (For the KKK types here…)

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

October 10th, 2012
10:11 am

ONLY LIBERALS can on one hand DEMAND that WASHINGTON take control because its best for the GOOD of the people…….. and then DEMAND that control be given to the LOCAL level because you cant trust those in higher office

Give people in Georgia local control and you know what your going to get.

Sunday School class.

Jm

October 10th, 2012
10:13 am

Chuck Schumer is the devil

AmericaShrugged

October 10th, 2012
10:13 am

I long for those good old days when Dem governors would rip us off by just endlessly paving roads that didn’t need it with paving companies they owned. Now Deal runs more devious schemes, like huge kickbacks from TSPOST contractors and Charter school mega businesses. Hope this gets voted down too!

killerj

October 10th, 2012
10:14 am

Good point Jay,now bring up the same Issue with the one,s in the white house to and I will Smile all day,have a good day.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
10:14 am

JAMVET,

About time someone stepped up and stated the real problem which is that we can’t allow the schools to parent our kids…admittedly, many can’t be involved due to personal circumstances but the fact that the best measure of a schools success is PTA participation speaks volumes..

Erwin's cat

October 10th, 2012
10:14 am

This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.

Given what we already know about some of the districts I don’t see this necessarily as a bad thing

barking frog

October 10th, 2012
10:16 am

Any new school has to be
a good thing even a
Sunday School. The ‘my
school is better than your
school’ people need an
education.

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
10:16 am

Metro Coach — “Why are liberals so anti-choice? Aren’t you supposed to be the party of choice?”

We are. And if you want ’school choice,’ you have it TODAY.

If you want your kid in a different school district, then move. If you want your kid in a private school or academy, or even if you want them in some kind of church-run educational institution, you can pull your kid out of the public school they’re in and MOVE THEM TODAY.

You just can’t have the rest of the population pay for your choice, that’s all. Just like every other free choice you have in your country, you’ve got to pay the freight yourself. And that’s what all this is about.

“You know, like abortion on demand, gay rights, etc. Or is it that you’re afraid that if families are allowed to choose which schools their children attend, and subsequently succeed at those schools, people will realize that the entire government controlled public schools are not the be all end all of education as you would have everyone believe?”

Not at all. I simply believe you should man up, strap on a pair of stones AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF.

“Democrats, the anti-life, anti-choice party.”

Republicans, the party of big, nosy, intrusive gooberment.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

October 10th, 2012
10:16 am

ERWIN’S CAT

are you telling me that those FAILING school districts who have HAD CONTROL for decades ARE NOT the best to fix the problems?

prepare to be attacked

Common Sense

October 10th, 2012
10:17 am

If government schools turned out high quality students, we would not even be having this discussion.

Look before I leap...

October 10th, 2012
10:17 am

Here is a pretty interesting evaluation on the impact of Charter schools
http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf

Note the final line in the summation:
“The  charter  school  movement  to  date  has  concentrated  its  formidable  resources  and  energy  on removing  barriers  to  charter  school  entry into  the  market.  It  is  time  to concentrate  equally  on removing the barriers to exit. ”

In short it is a mixed bag with some good news and some not so good news for charter proponents.
GA’s performance is at or below average compared to performance of the other 15 states and DC.
There are variances – GA charters do a decent job in improving reading skills but a lousy job in improving math skills. In addition, there are significant variations in terms of performance gains demographically:
Impoverished student substantially exceed the average performance while black and Hispanic students perform worse.

Elementary performance gains are higher than middle and high school gains.

In short, charter schools are not a magic fix to what ails the education system.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
10:17 am

Mary Elizabeth, any ideas on why Barack Obama, the ‘liberal’, is right in line with the Nathan Deals of the world on this issue?

Steve-USA "None of the Above"

October 10th, 2012
10:17 am

“About time someone stepped up and stated the real problem which is that we can’t allow the schools to parent our kids…admittedly, many can’t be involved due to personal circumstances but the fact that the best measure of a schools success is PTA participation speaks volumes.”

Was that his point? It seemed to me his point was that Conservative parents were the problem, implying that kids of Liberal’s are doing just fine.

Mary Elizabeth

October 10th, 2012
10:18 am

Mick, 9:50 am

“Do they really want to create a nation of elderly paupers? Seems that way…”
===========================================

Mick, many of the top eschelon of wealth and power in America, unfortunately, have contempt for average Americans. That was so obvious when Romney spoke from his gut in the “47% video.”

If Americans wish to pool their resources and pay – all of their working lives – into Social Security and Medicare, then they should be able to be the recipients of those government benefits in their old age, without being labelled “moochers” – not only in name, but also in perception by those of great wealth and power. Not everyone can be “Chiefs” to make America function well; some must be the “Indians” who are the average American workers. That does not mean that these average Americans are less human – or less worthy to be considered equal to those of great wealth and power – from a human and from a spiritual standpoint. In fact, that all men (and women) were created equal was what America was formed to confirm for all history. America is an idea, a work-in-progress, if you will, to confirm that idea. And, America is now at a crossroads to be able to keep that idea alive for posterity, not only for the people of our nation but for the people throughout the world and for all time, as Lincoln so well knew, and died for, in his day.

Common Sense

October 10th, 2012
10:20 am

“You just can’t have the rest of the population pay for your choice, that’s all. Just like every other free choice you have in your country, you’ve got to pay the freight yourself. And that’s what all this is about.”

Ayn Rand could not have said it better.

But you need to define “free”. As it stands today, very little is left to “free” choice.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
10:21 am

ERWINS CAT

Appropos of nothing but your moniker, did you see the relevance of Erwins Cat in the work of Nobel Prize winners in Physics?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/09/us-nobel-physics-quantum-idUSBRE8980V620121009?feedType=RSS

td

October 10th, 2012
10:21 am

Jay,

You better take note of this day and moment because it is very rare occurrence. I agree with the vast majority of what wrote this morning. Probably for different reason but this Amendment is horrible and should be voted down just like the T-SPLOST was.

Rightwing Troll

October 10th, 2012
10:22 am

“Of course, you libs want to double down on Obama’s failed, miserable presidency, so I guess we might as well do the same with our kids, right?”

NCLB came from where? Public Schools are what we make of them, and considering the teatards and wingnuts have been dismantling and underfunding schools, but not dismantling the miserable failure that NCLB is you as a wingnut have no room to speak on this issue. Public schools are failing because of you, not in spite of you.

Rightwing Troll

October 10th, 2012
10:24 am

Ahhh.. another day, another boatload of bollocks served up by our resident wingnut moochers and takers… (pssst… don’t tell them they’re in that 47%… they’d be crushed…)

USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)

October 10th, 2012
10:24 am

“Give people in Georgia local control and you know what your going to get.

Sunday School class.”

sadly, too frickin’ true.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

October 10th, 2012
10:25 am

Examples of things taught in Charter schools in Louisiana.

“God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ.”—America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994…

“[Is] it possible that a fire-breathing animal really existed? Today some scientists are saying yes. They have found large chambers in certain dinosaur skulls…The large skull chambers could have contained special chemical-producing glands. When the animal forced the chemicals out of its mouth or nose, these substances may have combined and produced fire and smoke.”—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007

“A few slave holders were undeniably cruel. Examples of slaves beaten to death were not common, neither were they unknown. The majority of slave holders treated their slaves well.”—United States History for Christian Schools, 2nd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 1991

This is what your children will be taught with tax payer dollars at charter schools.

They are already doing it in Louisiana.

“Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years.”—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007

barking frog

October 10th, 2012
10:25 am

The public education
factory should operate
24/7 infant to PhD. This
would cure many barriers
to education and eliminate
dangers to children.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
10:26 am

STEVE,

The inference I got from JamVets post was that conservatives lack of parental involvement was an offset to the same issue facing more liberal voters…its’s all the same…lack of parental involvement knows no differentiation between race or voting preference…IMO it has to do with middle to low income folks who, due to no fault of their own, can offer no involvement…its’ an equal opportunity issue…

Erwin's cat

October 10th, 2012
10:28 am

Stevie Ray
thanks for the link…they maybe able to get me outta the box after all…I always get a kick outta the fact that modern physics is still somewhat still grounded in the 1930’s

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

October 10th, 2012
10:29 am

“[The Ku Klux] Klan in some areas of the country tried to be a means of reform, fighting the decline in morality and using the symbol of the cross. Klan targets were bootleggers, wife-beaters, and immoral movies. In some communities it achieved a certain respectability as it worked with politicians.”—United States History for Christian Schools, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2001

RF

October 10th, 2012
10:30 am

Important note: this commission, if approved by constitutional amendment, will consist of members appointed by the governor, lt. governor, and speaker of the house (if I understand correctly). If that’s true, it’s obvious how political this issue is and what the agenda is. Those three, along with AG Olens are pretty obvious in their intent to create their own, ALEC approved school system while they slowly push traditional public schools out of existence. I cannot, in good conscience, give them that authority via a constitutional amendment. That’s too much authority vested in a group with direct responsibility to only those in the top echelon of state power. Can’t do it, won’t do it, and can’t believe anyone would.

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
10:30 am

Any idea yet how much a k-12 education from Phoenix Grade School will cost? Will it be worth every cent. Cons seem to think so. I wonder how many of the cons graduated from Phoenix University.

yuzeyurbrane

October 10th, 2012
10:31 am

Olens was a good county commissioner but has literally sold his soul to advance in state Republican politics. In other words, he has become a hoe. Glenn Delk, per his own law office website, has made a career of advocacy for an agenda to destroy public schools through vouchers, etc. and defending stockbrokers accused of fraud. His own kids have been the beneficiaries of his efforts. He is a hoe, too. The cutely worded and misleading, and possibly illegal, wording of the preamble to the ballot question on the proposed Charter Amendment also reflects his probable input.
Georgia voters don’t be fooled. This is brought to you by the same folks who brought you T-Splost. Corruption and big bucks are a real peril here. You can measure the degree of the peril by the unprecedented strong-arm tactics utilized to stifle the voice of those who disagree with them. This has now also become an assault on the 1st Amendment free speech rights of us all. Shame on those who exhibit only a faux allegiance to democracy.

bob

October 10th, 2012
10:31 am

btroll, is that the best you can do ? The people you say wanted Davis are the same that endorsed Beverly Hall. I liked the replacement at the time based on his background of running such a large company. But why do I have to be a racist for being involved ? How pathetic are you for saying that people that are involved be racist ? Why is it racist to want our voices heard ? Are you just a small minded person that sees everything through race ? Are blacks racist when they demand answers form public officials ? And if big biz tells me they like Davis then I can’t ask why Davis tells me as a taxpayer he will never consider what I want ? If you accept what big biz tells you then you can do just that. Davis pulled a power play and people are not racist for calling him on it. Furthermore, the replaced people are still in the system which tells me they are qualified to be in the system. Do you think moving a person to a new school 10 miles away gives them any more qualifications ? And do you think it is racist to point out that paying 10 people to do the work of four people is a waste of money ? Does the word logic have any meaning to you ? Davis pulls a stunt that he thinks needs to be remedied by counselors, I point out what a waste it is and all you can come up with is racism ?

Jm

October 10th, 2012
10:32 am

ME

“In fact, that all men (and women) were created equal was what America was formed to confirm for all history.”

Created (born) equal does not mean we all end up equal with respect to wealth. We will all have the same right to vote though.

You’re trapped in your own tangled web of ideas

Bill Orvis White

October 10th, 2012
10:32 am

Public screwels are in the dumps and folk like Librul Jay caterwaul for failed status quo. The entire system NEEDS TO be transformed, NOT REFORMED! The common sense charter school amendment movement coupled with solid vouchers are initiatives that me and my church have been working on for years in all 50 states.

OK, so now why is Jay crying that Georgia’s governor has a few good things to say about charters? THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR DEAL HAS NOT/IS NOT BREAKING ANY RULES! The liberal educational elite have been using taxpayer dollars to push their radical agenda on the public. Well, thanks to FOX News and talk radio, PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP AND STANDING UP TO THIS NONSENSE!

Georgia, VOTE FOR THE AMENDMENT and push for a voucherized school system while urging mothers to stay at home and become educators to their children.

Amen,
Bill

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
10:33 am

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
October 10th, 2012
10:25 am

If charter schools are universal in that theory as you post proclaims, then why do charter schools out perform their public school counterparts?

Why do a higher percentage graduate and then go onto college from charter schools than from public schools?

Must be cause they pray a lot in charter schools!

Have you ever been in a charter school for any extended period of time?

RF

October 10th, 2012
10:34 am

Also important to note is the open admission by legislators of the state that they have not fully funded schools according to law in over twenty years. The current formula, set by the QBE act, has not been fully funded in its existence. In fact, in the last ten years, state funding has dropped to an average of 38% of total spent on education. When the legislature is crying about not having the money to meet its legal obligations under existing law, it now wants the authority to grant charters and fund those schools, supposedly from some mystery money they will suddenly have. At a time when every state agency has been forced to cut budgets repeatedly, where will they get this money?

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
10:36 am

TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
10:30 am

Are you having difficulty in distinguishing the differences between a private for profit school a private non profit school and a charter school?

You are aware all 3 are different right?
Why bring up Pheonix when the discussion is charter schools?

RF

October 10th, 2012
10:37 am

Charter schools across the country have come under scrutiny in recent years over high attrition rates (some as high as 50%). It seems many just remove the kids who won’t score well or who don’t live up the standards of the school. They have that option- just send them on back to the local public schools. Their scores overall aren’t significantly better and in many cases worse than the local public schools with which they are compared. It’s also important to note the number whose population demographics are clearly unbalanced compared with the districts they serve. There’s no golden egg laid here, but a lot of spray paint applied to make them look golden in my opinion.

RF

October 10th, 2012
10:38 am

So Bill, it’s okay for the governor, on state paid time, to campaign for the amendment but it’s not okay for a superintendent to campaign against it? Talk about double standards. If you’re going to legally squelch one side, you have to hold the other to the same standards.

Look before I leap...

October 10th, 2012
10:38 am

“If charter schools are universal in that theory as you post proclaims, then why do charter schools out perform their public school counterparts?”

Not intended to be a factual statement.

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
10:38 am

C. Sense — “Ayn Rand could not have said it better.”

Not in the least. Americans provide services and facilities for the use and benefit of all. But satisfaction is not guaranteed. If you think that I-40 out west is a lousy road and you don’t want to use it to get to your destination, then fine. Perhaps Amtrak or an airline would suit you better — but you don’t get to use *those* facilities or services for free. You either use what’s provided by the taxpayers or you pay for your own choices yourself.

Same goes for education. You’re not obliged to send your kid to your local public schools if you think they’re deficient or unacceptable in some way. Then again, if you send your kid elsewhere, why should the taxpayers have to bear the financial burden of your choice? You HAD a free option and didn’t take it.

“But you need to define “free”. As it stands today, very little is left to “free” choice.”

You can *freely* choose or not choose to use the cost-free option. However, the consequences of your free choice could be that you incur costs that you might have otherwise avoided (by taking the cost-free option).

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
10:41 am

yuzeyerbrane — “Olens was a good county commissioner but has literally sold his soul to advance in state Republican politics.”

I miss Thurbert Baker. :(

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
10:43 am

A public community college provides a higher quality, lower cost education than a for-profit private institution such as Phoenix yet cons would have us believe otherwise.

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
10:44 am

“Charter schools tend to be located in low-income communities and low-performing school districts where the need for quality educational options is greatest. The New Orleans and Washington, D.C., school districts had the most charter schools in the United States in 2009-2010, and Los Angeles and Detroit had the most students enrolled. As illustrated in figure 2, in the 2008–2009 school year, more than half of all charter schools were located in urban areas, compared with 25 percent of all non-charter public schools.”
http://www.occ.gov/static/community-affairs/community-developments-investments/spring11/articles/why_charter/cde11spring02.htm
“Charter schools disproportionately serve minority and low-income students in large, underperforming urban school districts. How have they performed academically? Do they outperform traditional district public schools? The debate over these achievement questions has been fierce at times over the past two decades, frequently involving complex research methodology questions that can be difficult for the layperson, the press, and the general public to parse.”

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
10:45 am

M. Huggins — “If charter schools are universal in that theory as you post proclaims, then why do charter schools out perform their public school counterparts?”

“Why do a higher percentage graduate and then go onto college from charter schools than from public schools?”

Parental participation seems to be the reason. If you account for the number of hours each week that one or both parents/guardians spend helping their kids with schoolwork, the difference almost completely disappears. It seems that the schools themselves aren’t to blame or praise — it’s the level of parental participation and involvement that makes all the difference. Parents who send their kids to alternative schools seem to spend more time helping them — and that seems to be the kicker, not the fact that the kids are no longer in public schools.

If mom n’ dad send Junior to school and expect him to figure it all out on his own, then IMO *they* are the ones screwing up — not the kid and not the school.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

October 10th, 2012
10:46 am

Eventually Georgia schools will just become Sunday School class.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

southpaw

October 10th, 2012
10:47 am

dB@8:17

A slight correction–austerity isn’t the Borg style. Whatever they want or think they need, they assimilate. In other words, they take what they want–kind of like progressive governments.

barking frog

October 10th, 2012
10:48 am

The only leveler among
rich and poor school
districts is the tax collected
by the state and sent back
to local school districts.
This method could create
good schools in poor
districts.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

October 10th, 2012
10:48 am

ERWIN,

Agreed but I remain fascinated by the simple things we take for granted….like how a cd/dvd work, how these navigation systems do all they do, how colliders work and what we learn…etcetera…in everyday life its amazing what I don’t understand the use of standard quantum physics..

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
10:49 am

TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
10:43 am

Who has made that argument?

There is a difference between privet for profit and private non profit.

Harvard is private, Yale is private, Emory is private, university of chicago is private,
Duke is private.

Should I go on or would you like to use the boogey man of for profit schools?

Brosephus™

October 10th, 2012
10:50 am

I would say that anybody who supports this amendment is borderline nuts, but based on some of the posters here who have already signaled support, I imagine that most of us know it’s a given that supporters are indeed nuts.

People who support these power and money hungry b@stards who call themselves Republicans or Conservatives here in Georgia need to open their eyes to what lays right in front of them. If there ever was an example of why this Amendment sucks, this is it. If this were so great for the State of Georgia, there would be no need to strongarm the opposition into silence.

Will the real Conservatives/GOP stand up for once? Y’all keep saying you’re all about freedom and sh*t, so will you allow Georgian’s freedom of speech to be stomped on?

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

October 10th, 2012
10:50 am

Gay people “have no more claims to special rights than child molesters or rapists.”—Teacher’s Resource Guide to Current Events for Christian Schools, 1998-1999, Bob Jones University Press, 1998

Another beauty they teach kids in Charter Schools. With tax dollars.

This is all about getting control of the curriculum.

Nothing else.

Look before I leap...

October 10th, 2012
10:53 am

“This is all about getting control of the curriculum.”

and perhaps the money…

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
10:53 am

Bill The Onion White: “Public screwels are in the dumps and folk like Librul Jay caterwaul for failed status quo”

Remember back in the days when people who self-identified “conservative” were supposedly the staunch defenders of the “status quo” against overzeaelous liberal experimentation and social engineering?

Not any more.

Now it’s the “conservatives” who are in a mad rush for CHANGE NOW NOW NOWWW!!!!

Funny how that happened ain’t it?

Almost enough to make you wonder whether the whole descriptor “conservative” was a fraud all along.

RF

October 10th, 2012
10:54 am

Let’s also not forget that our state legislature wrote and implemented current law regarding education, in line with federal laws. For the 38% of funding they provide, they decide curriculum, standards, testing, and performance requirements for schools. They get a lot of control for their money. Now, they want to create schools that have the power to get around some of the state created rules in order to “innovate” and “increase student achievement.” Now wait- they wrote the laws,etc., and yet want to create schools that have less requirements…say what? And they’ll be the majority investor in those schools, funding them at 100% if not locally approved by a district. So you make the rules and then create a set of schools that don’t have to abide by all of them. Interesting…

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
10:54 am

Marty,

Cons want to transform our k-12 school system into a for-profit publicly-funded private school system. Like Phoenix University. Not like Emory University. Not like Harvard…

stands for decibels

October 10th, 2012
10:54 am

I know there are new sheetz, but…

You’re not obliged to send your kid to your local public schools if you think they’re deficient or unacceptable in some way.

I feel I should break in here and share a bit of personal experience. People seem to think that public schools are dead set against parents having any options; that’s not what we found. You can work out transfers to other schools—of course, transportation is up to you and, if you’re fortunate, similarly minded parents in your neck of the woods willing to carpool.

This again comes to the amazing gap I see in these discussions between those armed with a little bit of information, who yell and scream based on an astonishing level of real-life ignorance.

I really do think that if this stupid measure passes, it will be based on a large number of voters seeing the magic words “Charter Schools” and thinking “well that sounds good to me!”

But, there’s time to get the word out. And to make life miserable for Nathan Deal’s bagman Glenn Delk. Have I mentioned that his office contact info is:

http://www.lightmasanddelk.com/directions-and-map
Suite 1150
1355 Peachtree Street, N.E.
Atlanta, GA 30309
404.876.3335
Fax: 404.876.3338

Oh, and you can go to Google+ and upload photos and leave reviews. I’m sure Glenn’s prospective clients will appreciate it!

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
10:55 am

Joe Hussein Mama
October 10th, 2012
10:45 am

I agree parental involvement is key.

I also feel parents should have a free option when and if the current school does not or is not capable of producing an environment that is conducive to learning.

No child can learn to their capability with a high level of behavioral distractions by class mates.
The guaranteed parental or custodial involvement at many charter schools limit the amount of misbehavior because the parents of each student are involved.

Why should certain parents be forced to pay(especially if they can’t afford it) for an educational environment that harbors learning instead of hindering it all based upon where they may have bought a house 10 years ago?

DJ Sniper

October 10th, 2012
10:55 am

I agree with the bloggers here who are concerned about what kind of curriculum could be taught at these charter schools if this amendment passes. You see the tomfoolery and nonsense that they are trying to teach in the charter schools in Louisiana. Other countries are trying to arm their kids to be the best they can be, while here in America, we want our children to be as misinformed as humanely possible.

Keep the religious teachings where they belong: in church.

Mary Elizabeth

October 10th, 2012
10:56 am

Welcome to the Occupation, 10:17 am

“Mary Elizabeth, any ideas on why Barack Obama, the ‘liberal’, is right in line with the Nathan Deals of the world on this issue.”
=====================================================

Welcome, this is a complex issue. It would take me more time and effort than I can expend this morning. (I have other plans for the day.) Let me just make a few short statements for you. You want to easily combine Deal with Obama, but that just is not the case. There are shades of grey. Below are a few.

Barack Obama wants to improve public education. He has seen the poverty of children in the Southside of Chicago’s public schools that need much help and attention. He supports public charter schools as ONE means to help every child have a good education. He is not trying to privatize public education. He is not trying to dismantle public education. In fact, at the Democratic Convention, Obama said, “We must not gut education.” That was a direct line indicating to all that “gutting” is exactly what Republicans are trying to do to public education, in contrast to his policies regarding education.

He and Arne Duncan have a “Race to the Top” plan for states to improve standards for public education. Georgia is one of those “Race to the Top” schools. Gov. Deal is the head of Georgia’s government, therefore, they must all work together for that end. Obama, more than likely, does not know the intricacies of politics in Georgia regarding this Constitutional Amendment, in full. He may not even know that this amendment is unnecessary because the State Board of Education can establish state charter schools.

Just as I support the overall humanitaraian and egalitarian vision of Thomas Jefferson, yet I do not agree with ALL of Jefferson’s thinking, likewise although I support President Obama’s overall egalitarian and humanitarian vision for Americans and people throughout this globe, I do not necessarily agree with or support every aspect of his thinking. In terms of Obama’s “Race to the Top” educational plan, it is commendable in trying to improve public education, but its failure to recognize that every student cannot be taught on standards to which he or she is not prepared yet to master, in point of time, concerns me. For instance, trying to have all students master Algebra II in 8th grade when some 8th graders have not yet mastered long division, or decimals and percentages, is unwise, as I have been trained to understand mastery learning. Moreover, Race to the Top may demand too much testing in the overall context of teaching, although I support testing for diagnostic purposes. Furthermore, I do not want to see testing used as a primary way of dismissing teachers or of cutting their salaries, because I am aware of so many other factors are operative in having less than expected test results, such as IQ standing of different student, and social and economic deprivation of some students from birth to age 6 and beyond, which has its effects educationally years after that point in time. Yet, I applaud Obama, Duncan, and Deal for making education a priority – such as Deal’s emphasis on vocational education in Georgia. However, I do not applaud Deal’s political ways of handling the Constitutional Amendment which I see as highly political and simply wrong in the ways he is trying to use his power to suppress dissent to this amendment. Obama is not part of that.

Here are my last words in my own blog regarding the assessment of teachers:

“NOTE to U. S. Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan from Mary Elizabeth: ‘I commend what you and the President are trying to do to improve education and to enhance the respect that teachers are afforded in America, but I surely do hope you read this post in full!’ ”

For any who may want to read my post on my own blog, on assessing teachers, here is the link:
http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/about-education-essay-5-assessing-teachers-and-students/

Welcome, I have given you a “hit and miss” overview of the question you asked of me. This is much more complex, and interwoven, than I can possibly relate in the nuance that it deserves on this blog, but at least I have attempted to broach your question of me to some minimal degree.

Gone for the day.

Dirty Dawg

October 10th, 2012
10:56 am

If charter school ’systems’ were run as, and by, non-profits, then I could be more supportive. As it is all I believe it to be is just one more attempt – and a damned big one- to outsource education in the name of making money for ‘the few’. Now if you tell me that the companies that run the charter schools are already ‘not-for-profit’, I’ll have to see their organizational documentation and the salaries of their staffs. Kinda like the non-profits that were set up by Medical Associations to underwrite ‘malpractice insurance’.

GT

October 10th, 2012
10:56 am

One of the major problems with this state is it is a one party system that represents everything that has held the state back for a hundred year. Like Romney they game the system that is how they make a living. To me the ultimate laziness of a state or country is going with the flow. Bullies have a hay day, smart people move to where smart people live, and we are stuck with banana republic generals with big hats and no cattle and a toss salad of unearned medals on their chest.

Steve Jobs use to say the market doesn’t know what they want until they see it. He felt like it was his job to introduce them to the future. Romney and these local state guys do market studies and change themselves to meet the product the public thinks they want. If the public wants live executions on television, by golly that is what they want to. That ain’t leadership that is weak kneed, small character politics that make the providers rich and the state poor and uneducated. I don’t mind that as much, it is no ones fault but the fools that voted for these facilitators, it’s when they can’t take the blame for the damage they do and no one calls them out on it that bothers me. When they end up in hell and wonder how they got there, maybe the devil will explain how communism was a one party system too.

TaxPayer

October 10th, 2012
11:00 am

A pro-life, family-values congressman who worked as a doctor before winning election as a Tea Party-backed Republican had an affair with a patient and later pressured her to get an abortion, according to a phone call transcript obtained by The Huffington Post.

The congressman, Rep. Scott DesJarlais of Tennessee, was trying to save his marriage at the time, according to his remarks on the call, made in September of 2000.

Does that make him a hypocrite or do cons get special passes.

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
11:02 am

TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
10:54 am

Who has called for a for profit system?
Privatize does not mean for profit!

Which politician has called for Pheonix University to be the model for our public education?

You got a quote of one saying that? I did a quick search and was unable to find one.
But it was a quick search

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
11:04 am

M. Huggins — “I agree parental involvement is key. I also feel parents should have a free option when and if the current school does not or is not capable of producing an environment that is conducive to learning.”

And it seems that SfD gave you one — transfer to another school district. How come the “free option” being demanded is always another, parallel school system? How come the noisy school choice advocates never seem to admit that perhaps the public school over in the next county might just work out better for their kid?

“No child can learn to their capability with a high level of behavioral distractions by class mates.
The guaranteed parental or custodial involvement at many charter schools limit the amount of misbehavior because the parents of each student are involved.”

And IMO, public schools would benefit greatly from the same level of parental involvement, but school choice advocates never seem to admit that. It’s always the school’s fault, or government’s, or society’s. Never the fault of the parents who can’t be bothered to get involved. It’s almost as if those parents want everyone else to do *and* pay for what they themselves won’t.

“Why should certain parents be forced to pay(especially if they can’t afford it) for an educational environment that harbors learning instead of hindering it all based upon where they may have bought a house 10 years ago?”

I see. Parents have no responsibility whatsoever as regards supporting or getting involved with their kids’ schools. It’s all on the backs of other taxpayers like myself. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
11:05 am

M. Huggins — “Who has called for a for profit system? Privatize does not mean for profit!”

Oh, my dear country mouse. :D

bob

October 10th, 2012
11:07 am

Isn’t Arne Duncan a strong proponent of Charters ? Also, a bit off topic but has anyone seen the story that the white house dumped the embassy bombing excuse of the video and now agree with what everyone knew two days after it happened ? You would think the obo admin would be embarrassed but they are not. They just decided to tell America a lie, they have now come out and said they never blamed the video. The said part is most on here will believe the admin even though we all have seen them blame the video.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
11:08 am

bob: “Isn’t Arne Duncan a strong proponent of Charters ?”

I’ve mentioned it several times already above. Can’t get any of these liberals to address it. It embarrasses them evidently.

RAMZAD

October 10th, 2012
11:09 am

I support the Amendment. Things can not possibly get worse at a state charter school than the corruption, confusion, ineffectiveness we are seeing now under these almighty locals.

If the Amendment fails your public school graduates still will not be able to read. Their SAT scores will still suck. The school boards will still be retinues of crony kissing weasels. We will still have the two tier systems; public schools that work and those that are warehouses for aspiring criminals. The Communist Party would do a better job that what we have going on now. Bring on the State charters.

Look before I leap...

October 10th, 2012
11:09 am

“The congressman, Rep. Scott DesJarlais of Tennessee, was trying to save his marriage at the time, according to his remarks on the call, made in September of 2000.”

He was unsuccessful. His first wife divorced him 2001.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
11:09 am

Correction, Mary Elizabeth has responded on the issue, which I had missed. My apologies. I’ll read that now.

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
11:14 am

Joe Hussein Mama
October 10th, 2012
11:04 am

Haven’t been south of Macon much huh?

Gift county has 1 HS, Berrien County has 1 HS, Irwin County has 1 HS.

If you live in certain parts of those counties it is nearly if not a full hour to get to the next HS.

But you are right they could just move.

I just thought of it, we don’t need to reform schools at all.
Just tell parents if you dont like your child’s school just move.
I mean we have some really good public schools in this state, so why don’t the parents living in faint scho districts just move right.

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
11:16 am

Joe Hussein Mama
October 10th, 2012
11:05 am

Do you have a quote for a politician calling for Pheonix University to be a model for our education system?

I looked really quickly and found nothing but figure one has said it would just like to know who and when

Marty Huggins'

October 10th, 2012
11:19 am

Gift should have Tift.
Why does the G have to be so close to the T? Errr

barking frog

October 10th, 2012
11:24 am

Clicking on the recent post
takes me to the CSX website.
strange.

LoganvilleGuy

October 10th, 2012
11:33 am

@Marty:

How many private educational companies do you think will open charter schools unless it is to make a profit? Has the goal of a private company changed? I thought it was to make a profit to support the owners.

While there may be a few parents or non-profit organizations that start-up a charter school, the majority will be private companies. They will *have* to make a profit to remain viable.

Erwin's cat

October 10th, 2012
11:35 am

When did Bob Jones University become a charter school?

Tundra Dude

October 10th, 2012
11:38 am

Here is a pretty interesting evaluation on the impact of Charter schools
http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf

Stole my thunder, dude:
While public schools might be miserable, charter schools are higher on the Misery Scale
A whopping 37% did significantly worse.
Only 17% did better.

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
11:48 am

M. Huggins — Haven’t been south of Macon much huh? Gift county has 1 HS, Berrien County has 1 HS, Irwin County has 1 HS. If you live in certain parts of those counties it is nearly if not a full hour to get to the next HS.”

No, I moved here from Hawaii, where rural kids getting to a different school district means getting on a ferryboat or prop plane and flying to a different island — because there’s no road to get there. So spare me the hard-luck stories.

“But you are right they could just move.”

Or they could get up off their duffs and DO SOMETHING about the schools their kids are in. Like the parents in Hawaii did.

“I just thought of it, we don’t need to reform schools at all. Just tell parents if you dont like your child’s school just move. I mean we have some really good public schools in this state, so why don’t the parents living in faint scho districts just move right.”

See above. If Hawaiian parents can do it, so can south Georgia parents.

Joe Hussein Mama

October 10th, 2012
11:49 am

M. Huggins — “Do you have a quote for a politician calling for Pheonix University to be a model for our education system?”

Why would I? I didn’t make that claim.

Jack

October 10th, 2012
11:50 am

Amendents give me a headache. So I’ll probably vote NO. Not sure yet.

Northern Neighbor

October 10th, 2012
12:29 pm

If you care about your students and the education process, you should know who is on your local school board, field and support good candidates for school board, vote, and attend school board meetings regularly not just when you have a complaint.

kayaker 71

October 10th, 2012
1:16 pm

Testimony before Congress on the biggest government coverup since Watergate is now going on and it is obvious that lots of people lied. And Bookman is running a thread on charter schools in GA. Will we have the privilege of a Bookman thread on this whole fiasco?

Shamese

October 10th, 2012
1:22 pm

“It’s safe to say that no one knows the potential impact of Amendment 1 better than school boards and superintendents.”

Shamese

October 10th, 2012
1:29 pm

“It’s safe to say that no one knows the potential impact of Amendment 1 better than school boards and superintendents.”

No kidding, passage of Amendment 1 means the loss of power and big money. Do you really expect they’d support it Jay? Public schools have schlepped along for years grinding out unprepared HS graduates by social promotion and test tampering, and now that the public has said enough is enough they’re in panic mode.

yuzeyurbrane

October 10th, 2012
2:06 pm

I don’t recall who claimed charter schools outperform traditional public schools but that statement is inaccurate. The best that can be said is that the jury is still out on that question. There is much conflicting data on that point which is all the more reason that we should continue to experiment in this area rather than throw the baby out with the bath water.

Welcome to the Occupation

October 10th, 2012
9:58 pm

I don’t recall who claimed charter schools outperform traditional public schools but that statement is inaccurate

It’s bollocks. Bol-lux!

[...] Bookman calls out proponents of Amendment 1 in the state government for trying to silence the opposition. We will not back down [...]