State charter-school advocates try to squelch dissent
If approved by voters next month, Amendment 1 would give appointed state officials — officials answerable to politicians, not to voters — the authority to create and oversee special state-authorized charter schools anywhere in Georgia. The wishes of local voters and locally elected officials would not matter.
In other words, Amendment 1 is about taking power from the hands of the many and concentrating it in the hands of an unaccountable few. If you have any doubt about that claim, look at the heavy-handed manner in which those backing the proposal are trying to silence those who oppose it.
It’s safe to say that no one knows the potential impact of Amendment 1 better than school boards and superintendents. The Georgia School Superintendents Association and the Georgia School Boards Association strongly oppose its passage, as do many school boards, school board members and superintendents.
But according to their critics, they do not have the legal right to express such opinions. Supporters of Amendment 1 claim that school boards, for example, are forbidden from passing resolutions opposing the proposal because that constitutes an illegal use of taxpayer money to influence an election.
They have also enlisted powerful allies in their effort to silence opposition. Georgia Attorney General Sam Olens has issued an advisory opinion that is short on specifics but ominous in tone, warning that “school boards do not have the legal authority to expend funds or other resources to advocate or oppose the ratification of a constitutional amendment by the voters. They may not do this directly or indirectly through associations to which they may belong,” an apparent reference to the school-board and superintendent associations.
Atlanta attorney Glenn Delk, a longtime advocate of private-school vouchers, upped the ante this week when he filed suit against all 180 school boards in the state, insisting on their silence. The concerted effort to intimidate opponents of Amendment 1 has even convinced State School Superintendent John Barge, an elected statewide official, to take down a statement explaining his personal opposition to the proposal from the state Department of Education website.
It’s important to note that the law forbidding use of taxpayer resources to affect elections is important and ought to be respected. But to date, statements by education officials and associations have been well within the customary limits of that law in Georgia.
For example, while Barge pulled down his statement of opposition, as of Tuesday the website of Gov. Nathan Deal still contained two press releases touting the governor’s support of Amendment 1. In addition, Deal traveled to Cherokee County for a high-profile ceremony last spring in which he signed legislation related to Amendment 1, a clear use of taxpayer money to publicize his support of the measure.
Last summer’s failed campaign to rally support for a regional transportation tax also offers a stark contrast. The state Department of Transportation made no secret of its support for T-SPLOST. A FAQ still available on the DOT website warns that if the tax measures are rejected, “Georgia’s regions and the state as a whole would not be able to address its transportation infrastructure needs for a growing population and potential economic development.”
Deal himself endorsed the T-SPLOST in an op-ed column presumably written by state staff at state expense. Among other places, that column was published on the website of the Georgia Municipal Association, under the headline “Georgians need to support T-SPLOST”. GMA serves the same function for city officials that the school board association serves for school-board members. Similar examples can be cited involving the Association County Commissioners of Georgia (the trade organization for county officials), the Atlanta Regional Commission and countless county commissioners.
Yet somehow, perhaps because those in power also backed T-SPLOST passage, none of these examples caught the attention of our attorney general, and no concerted effort was made to silence them. One rule for them, another for everybody else.
– Jay Bookman
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247 comments Add your comment
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
9:21 am
Are the cons still whining about their debt. Tax cuts do not pay your bills. Cons need to own up to their debts and pay them instead of trying to unload their bills on others.
Ben Shockley
October 10th, 2012
9:21 am
“This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.”
And what’s wrong with that? Public schools are a miserable failure.
Of course, you libs want to double down on Obama’s failed, miserable presidency, so I guess we might as well do the same with our kids, right?
USMale
October 10th, 2012
9:22 am
First, kill the public schools by lack of support. Then roll out your vouchers/charter schools to establish a separate system. It sort of reminds me of how Mitch McConnell and gang have worked to block any jobs or budget bills and then complain that there are no jobs, so you need to elect someone different. This is getting old, but I guess it works on the dimly lit among us.
mbtc
October 10th, 2012
9:22 am
To propose that Ga unions control education is laughable.
Ben Shockley
October 10th, 2012
9:23 am
“Cons need to own up to their debts and pay them instead of trying to unload their bills on others.”
LMAO. As opposed to libs like Taxpayer who want the top 10% to pay all their debts.
Jm
October 10th, 2012
9:23 am
Stevie Ray
Agreed
The debt is a mortal danger to our country
The deficits must be reduced fast, but not instantaneously
Joseph
October 10th, 2012
9:24 am
Jay:
This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.
This sounds a great idea considering how many billions a year is wasted… Think of how many teachers who are simply out for themselves and not looking out for the best interest of the children. Think of the corrupt administrators along with corrupt school boards.
Schools need to be run more efficient just like the federal gubmint. To liberals this is simply to hard to understand because they are all of the mindset that the more money you throw at a problem the better….
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
9:24 am
Perhaps cons are looking forward to using a voucher to help cover the cost of sending their children to the Paul Broun School of Higher Larning.
Mary Elizabeth
October 10th, 2012
9:25 am
State Superintendent of Schools, Dr. John Barge, should be awarded a “Profile In Courage” award through the Kennedy Center, in my opinion. He is a Republican leader who stood for educational principles over political interests. And, thereafter has had to suffer intense stresses thrust upon him by party line Republican leaders in Georgia for having stood for educational principles. Thank you Superintendent Barge. Many have noticed, and have appreciated, your courageous stand in behalf of public education and in behalf of the education of ALL of Georgia’s school children, equally.
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
9:26 am
Yes, Ben, I want the top ten percent to pay all their debt.
Ben Shockley
October 10th, 2012
9:26 am
“Perhaps cons are looking forward to using a voucher to help cover the cost of sending their children to the Paul Broun School of Higher Larning.”
It would be a damn sight better than sending them to Clayton County, Dekalb County, or APS, wouldn’t it?
Ronin
October 10th, 2012
9:26 am
From a probability standpoint, most likely the bill will pass.
The haven of government contract jobs will be partially replaced with employees that can be dismissed without the bureaucratic review boards.
Charter employees will not participate in the state benefits program which include medical and defined benefit plan (pensions). Long term, it will cost the state much less than the current system.
Will it create a better school environment? Maybe, maybe not, but the current business model that is public education will have to adapt or be assimilated. (that’s for you SFD) 7of9.
Ben Shockley
October 10th, 2012
9:26 am
“Yes, Ben, I want the top ten percent to pay all their debt. ”
No, you want them to pay all YOUR debt. And you know it.
USMale
October 10th, 2012
9:27 am
Ben Schlockly, the only thing I’ve found to be miserable about Obama’s presidency is the single-minded, anti-American opposition by the GOP to anything that might help the economy. The plan has clearly been to cause as many problems as possible and then blame it on Obama in order to get a Repub. elected this November. Given that the average IQ is 100 and people don’t remember who was president when the economy tanked (note that the GOP convention TOTALLY AVOIDED mentioning GWB), they’ve got a shot – albeit a very, very slim shot.
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
9:27 am
It would be a damn sight better than sending them to Clayton County, Dekalb County, or APS, wouldn’t it?
Did you attempt to graduate from all three school systems and are hence sharing your personal experiences, Ben.
Jay
October 10th, 2012
9:27 am
“And what’s wrong with that? Public schools are a miserable failure.”
Then those supporting Amendment 1 should be willing to make that argument, in public and honestly. Instead they lie, claiming that this has nothing to do with any attempt to undercut traditional public education. It is a campaign based on deceit, claiming one goal while in reality pursuing a much different goal.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 10th, 2012
9:28 am
Ben Shockley: “Liberalism 101…don’t answer tough question, just mock and deflct attention….”
What does my reply have to do with “liberalism”?
By the way, Mary Elizabeth, maybe if your guy Obama and all his pals (Arne Duncan and Rahm Emanual key among them) weren’t just over the moon for this privatization, charter junk and instead had offered a solid, cogent defense of our public schools as institution, maybe the state of the debate nationally would be a little different.
How’s that possible, Ben Shockley and Mary Elizabeth, that the big “liberal” Barack Obama is right in line with the Sam Olens and Nathan Deals of the world on this critical issue?
Could it be that your definition of “liberalism” might need to be re-thought? Hmm.
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
9:28 am
No, you want them to pay all YOUR debt. And you know it.
No Ben. I want them to pay their debt but you don’t know it.
Ben Shockley
October 10th, 2012
9:28 am
Dr. John Barge is hardly courageous. He’s a self-serving beaurocrat who doesn’t want to lose power and influence. He cares about himself and the public education establishment more than he cares about educating kids.
td
October 10th, 2012
9:29 am
Aquagirl
October 10th, 2012
7:32 am
Small gub’mint and free speech-lovin’ conservatives at work.
No, Establishment Republicans at work and this Tea party member of the party has been screaming at them for months.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 10th, 2012
9:29 am
JAY,
I don’t either to be fair…I thought you were suggesting that they can’ voice their opinions but after re-reading your column, i see you are referring to the fact they have zero ability to legislatively challenge this..
I also agree that unelected and unaccountable ‘Czars” on a federal or local level are poor strategy to accomplish anything truly on behalf of the peoples desire..
Ben Shockley
October 10th, 2012
9:30 am
“No Ben. I want them to pay their debt but you don’t know it.”
LOL. The top 10% pay 90% of the taxes. And Taxpayer thinks they don’t pay their debts.
Liberals are hilarious.
stands for decibels
October 10th, 2012
9:32 am
This is a real gem: “the cut in our AAA rating should be viewed for what it really is: a political act to help Wall St support the Republicans”
Works for me.
sneak peak into education
October 10th, 2012
9:34 am
I really think that the negative publicity about this actually helps the NO camp. And remember, the NO camp falls into 2 categories
1. Those who are against charter schools in any form.
2. Those who support charter schools but are against the constitutional amendment because it creates a non-elected board that duplicates a process already available and increases the size of government.
According to many posters, it sounds like many fall into the latter category. I feel that the strong-arm move by the AG and Glen Delk absolutely helps to bolster the NO vote. People don’t like bullies and especially those who look like they are trying to take the voice away from a group of taxpayers for the benefit of others.
Please remember that the group behind this amendment, ALEC, is a policy writing group whose agenda is to privatize education with the hopes of making big bucks for their backers.
ALEC’s agenda is as follows:
1. Introduce market factors into schools, especially the teaching profession
2. Privatize education through vouchers, charters and tax incentives
3. Increase student testing and reporting
4. REDUCE THE INFLUENCE OF OR ELIMINATE LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND SCHOOL BOARDS
Please note the last point in particular; this is their way to reduce your democratic right to vote at the local level. Why would any sane person want to do this? This is not a conspiracy theory; it is already happening and at a greater rate in some parts of our country-see Louisiana for one to see the disaster that these policies mean for public education. Yes, the proponents will say “it’s about the children” but it’s really about big business getting their hands on taxpayers money. Don’t let them fool you.
I strongly feel that the opponents to this amendment felt that they would not see any opposition to this move and it would be an easy ride for them but the voters of Georgia have got to be smarter than that and realize that the amendment has been written to purposely mislead the public. They know it.
VOTE NO in NOvember.
stands for decibels
October 10th, 2012
9:34 am
and I see our Ben Shockley has started his “work” day.
I gots to go actually produce some goods/services of tangible value. See y’all later…
DJ Sniper
October 10th, 2012
9:34 am
Good luck getting Amendment 1 supporters to make that argument Jay. We both know it won’t happen.
stands for decibels
October 10th, 2012
9:35 am
Oh, one other thing:
APS! BOOGAH BOOGAH!
/drive-by
Jay
October 10th, 2012
9:35 am
The reason they lie is because most people are pretty satisfied with their public schools, and they ought to be. Even here in Georgia, test scores on nationally standardized tests have risen slowly but steadily. ( http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/ )
So to achieve their goals, those who wish to dismantle public education have to do so through deception.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 10th, 2012
9:35 am
“First, kill the public schools by lack of support. Then roll out your vouchers/charter schools to establish a separate system”
“My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub” – Grover Norquist
td
October 10th, 2012
9:36 am
Ben Shockley
October 10th, 2012
9:28 am
We agree 95% of the time but I totally disagree with you on this one and support Dr. Barge’s decision 100%. This Constitutional amendment is in no way conservative. This amendment takes away control and accountability from local control and gives it to a state wide unelected commission. There is no way anyone can claim this is a conservative philosophy and is totally wrong.
mbtc
October 10th, 2012
9:37 am
“The top 10% pay 90% of the taxes”
The top 10% control 90% of the wealth, thus benefit the most from living in this “exceptional” country; why shouldn’t they pay the most in taxes?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
October 10th, 2012
9:39 am
Well, maybe if they hurry up, in a couple years I can send little Nathan Zell George to one of them charter schools so he can learn about Adam and Eve and the Stork. Instead of this Evolution junk and being told about you-know-what..
Have a good Hump Day everybody.
DJ Sniper
October 10th, 2012
9:39 am
I really want Grover Norquist to crawl back under whatever rock he came from. He is very dangerous for this country.
USMale
October 10th, 2012
9:39 am
The top 10% pay 70% of the income taxes collected, not 90%, but they get more benefits too. When our military goes to war, whose wealth and investments are they protecting? Are the poor asking for a new domed stadium? Are the poor benefitting from money spent with Haliburton, Lockheed, and Boeing? All these “handout” payments that go to poor people go right back into the hands of Kraft, Exxon, Southern Company, ATT, et al. Just the other day, the CEO of Kraft warned Congress not to cut payments to the poor. You think it was because he’s a generous guy?
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
9:43 am
LOL. The top 10% pay 90% of the taxes. And Taxpayer thinks they don’t pay their debts.
Who do you think benefitted from that 16 trillion dollar debt. Let me guess. Food stamp recipients. LOL. How much should the people and corporations that amass the majority of the wealth pay, Ben.
mbtc
October 10th, 2012
9:44 am
USMale:”The top 10% pay 70% of the income taxes collected”
Busted! Thanks for the correction. I was admittedly shooting from the hip, but knew the numbers were in the neighborhood.
Tinkerella
October 10th, 2012
9:45 am
The people of Georgia are SO desperate for successful schools, they will buy into anything at this point. This is why it is so difficult for many to completely understand this issue. Most people who support it don’t understand the layers of political poopoo that has been frosted over this piece and have no idea who ALEC even is. All they hear is the word “change” and they are on that bandwagon. Really, that is the problem to begin with….no one takes the time to even know who they are voting for on their school boards. So-called conservatives want smaller government and then they roll out this steamer. I have been looking into the failure of the schools for years now and understand why this is not a good idea but most people vote by sound bytes from the media or a poster on the side of the road.
Ronin
October 10th, 2012
9:45 am
Jay: “So to achieve their goals, those who wish to dismantle public education have to do so through deception.”
You’re chasing a smoked red herring. Charter schools are public schools too. They will allow more individual choices vs. standard district schools. Hmm… that may be the rub, individual choice.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
October 10th, 2012
9:45 am
This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.
Thats exactly what this is. Once they do that then they can control the curriculum.
Then Evolution is out and Creationism is in.
They are already doing just that in Louisiana. With public money.
Eventually Georgia schools will just become Sunday School class.
Adam
October 10th, 2012
9:46 am
Off topic a bit, but I think I understand finally part of what the mentality is behind successful businessmen and perhaps successful politicians: Never admit failure. Ever. Even when it’s staring you in the face. never admit you were wrong. Never own up to mistakes. Ever. Sell yourself as always right no matter what, and people will believe it. Swallow it hook line and sinker. And never admit this is your strategy.
Mick
October 10th, 2012
9:46 am
People like ben sit on the sidelines and heap contempt and scorn on public schools but if he ever had to try and teach a public school class with students learning at three different levels or learning disabilities, he would be a roasted & thoroughly toasted con by lunchtime…
Mary Elizabeth
October 10th, 2012
9:47 am
“Charter employees will not participate in the state benefits program which include medical and defined benefit plan (pensions).”
================================
It should be noted that Rep. Jan Jones, who sponsored the Constitutional Amendment bill, also sponsored another bill that disallowed teachers in state charter schools from becoming members of Georgia’s Teacher Retirement System.
There is a long-ranged (actually not so long-ranged) plan to dismantle public education and public school teachers having retirement benefits in Georgia. Just as the Republican ideological plan is to create Social Security in which America’s citizens will have their own 401k, stock market dependent Social Security, and Vouchers for 80 year olds instead of Medicare, they want to take away all public (and private) pensions. And they want to accomplish this by pitting private employed average workers against public employed average workers. Who wins in this scenario? Not the general public and not the average middle/working class American, but those such as the Koch Brothers, who control the top eschelon of power and corporate interests in this nation, and have an ideological mission to dismantle public “government” programs that benefit the average American.
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
9:47 am
So to achieve their goals, those who wish to dismantle public education have to do so through deception.
What we need are more hidden cameras. They have a way of shining a light on those that use deceit to further their agendas.
Mary Elizabeth
October 10th, 2012
9:47 am
Thank you for this article and this thread, Jay.
Mick
October 10th, 2012
9:50 am
mary elizabeth
Yes, you are correct and how short sighted can they be? Do they really want to create a nation of elderly paupers? Seems that way…
Roll Back
October 10th, 2012
9:51 am
Dr. John Barge is hardly courageous. He’s a self-serving beaurocrat who doesn’t want to lose power and influence. He cares about himself and the public education establishment more than he cares about educating kids.
__________
Was he ELECTED or APPOINTED by Governor Deal or WE the PEOPLE?
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
October 10th, 2012
9:51 am
The top 10% control 90% of the wealth, thus benefit the most from living in this “exceptional” country; why shouldn’t they pay the most in taxes?
Exactly.
“Why shouldn’t the American people take half my money from me? I took all of it from them.”
Edward Albert Filene (1869-1937)
Edward Albert Filene (September 3, 1860, Salem, Massachusetts – September 26, 1937, Paris, France) was an American businessman, social entrepreneur and philanthropist. He is best known for building the Filene’s department store chain and for his decisive role in pioneering credit unions across the United States.
larry
October 10th, 2012
9:52 am
I really want Grover Norquist to crawl back under whatever rock he came from. He is very dangerous for this country.
I second that.
USMale
October 10th, 2012
9:52 am
Now, have we all converted those of the other side to our positions? No?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 10th, 2012
9:54 am
STANDS,
If the winners of a negative hit on our credit rating benefits wall street, it benefits both parties in close to equal fashion..
BTW, are you up to speed on the implementation of DODD FRANK relative to the credence afforded the rating agencies, the leading culprit IMO of meltdown? They were supposed to implement via SEC, regulations that eliminated conflicts of interest relative to rating agencies historic practices and this like…what do you suppose the status of these required new SEC rules?
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/09/17/sec-gives-up-on-web-schedules-for-dodd-frank-rules/
bob
October 10th, 2012
9:55 am
Here is another gem from Davis “Student: Why weren’t parents notified of changes?
Davis: “That is not going to a happen. There will never be a time, either with lead time or without lead time, when I seek permission from parents.” Thats right taxpayers, shut the hell up and move along, you have no say in the matter of how WE run the show, pay your taxes and quit whining is my interpretation of that response.
Student: How will the new administration be able to succeed with hostility they will face from students. “Other than the counseling you mentioned.” (In earlier question on how students, coming back tomorrow from a break, will cope, Davis said counselors will be on hand.)” There you go, we will have counselors come in and tell you how to cope with Me telling you to shut up and go away, you are a parent and i don’t listen to you. So APS is still paying the released staff, paying 8 people to replace 4 people and paying counselors and you smart progressives fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo. Davis personal slap down of taxpayers cost Davis nothing out of his pocket. And why didn’t davis go to the worst performing schools and start there ?
straitroad
October 10th, 2012
9:57 am
This seems to be a very simple issue. If a school receives public money, it should be governed by a publicly elected board. Education get’s danced around every time it comes up. The problem with education isn’t lack of money or staffing or anything else. Students with parents who give a rip perform well in school, plain and simple. Until the culture in this country changes in that regard, the problem will persist.
Citizen of the World
October 10th, 2012
9:58 am
Thank you, Jay.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 10th, 2012
9:59 am
ADAM,
Agreed especially with respect to BO and the DEMS and GOP in particular…seems most folks blogging here and other sites will defend their candidates no matter what…
IMO all this election hubris akin to Jerry Springer, is simply an argument over which color gowns to wrap a cancer ridden government corpse…nobody seems to mind that the system is broken thus all we can expect are flawed results…due to our interests being subordinated to special interests and re-election, we can expect no different results regardless who wins this presidential auction…
b-troll
October 10th, 2012
10:00 am
“The reason they lie is because most people are pretty satisfied with their public schools, and they ought to be.” – Jay Bookman
No they shouldn’t. Measured international American schools stink, and measured nationally, Georgia schools stink pretty badly. So in the developed world, Georgia schools are a cess-pool.
Ronald Reagan Parkway
October 10th, 2012
10:02 am
Just say NO to the Charter School Amendment…and if you did NOT register by October 9, YOU will NOT be able to vote on November 6.
b-troll
October 10th, 2012
10:02 am
bob
“Davis: “That is not going to a happen. There will never be a time, either with lead time or without lead time, when I seek permission from parents.” ”
This is called management doing its job. Finally. You don’t need parental input to know who is or isn’t doing a good job.
b-troll
October 10th, 2012
10:04 am
bob, are you racist? Just curious.
Because most business groups, foundations, and others that look closely at APS think Davis is doing a great job and only hope he stays longer.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
October 10th, 2012
10:05 am
what JAY doesnt mention is that the LOCAL control doesn’t like CHARTER schools because if the charters are successful then it shows that the LOCALS are incompetent.
ONLY LIBERALS can on one hand DEMAND that WASHINGTON take control because its best for the GOOD of the people…….. and then DEMAND that control be given to the LOCAL level because you cant trust those in higher office
bob
October 10th, 2012
10:06 am
Mary Elizabeth, teachers should have to pay Social Security or I should not. SS is a ripoff and it has no trust fund, it’s been spent. Be happy your reps did a good job by getting you exempted from it.
kawasaki kid
October 10th, 2012
10:07 am
Republicans worship money and power; that is their true religion. Money makes career-minded politicos beholden to big campaign donors. “Privatizing” government functions means inserting for-profit middle-men who’ll be happy to give their elected benefactors a “piece of the action”, with plenty left over to buy themselves million-dollar beach houses, all at taxpayer expense.
JamVet
October 10th, 2012
10:09 am
Georgia’s schools are only a small part of the problem.
Georgia’s students are the big problem.
Look nor father than their parents on this forum for reasons why.
Most have seemingly not cracked a book of note since high school.
Every single day here we see these so-called conservatives who can barely spell, whose vocabulary would not pass a high school course, who don’t know with any degree of mastery, our nation’s history, much less world history, who are as scientifically illiterate as a globally cooled fifth grader in North Korea, who have no clue as to how our working class American families have been decimated for forty years and who are fiercely proud of their ignorance.
The problem is intractable.
Go to virtually any all white school in rural Georgia and you will see for yourself. (For the KKK types here…)
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
October 10th, 2012
10:11 am
ONLY LIBERALS can on one hand DEMAND that WASHINGTON take control because its best for the GOOD of the people…….. and then DEMAND that control be given to the LOCAL level because you cant trust those in higher office
Give people in Georgia local control and you know what your going to get.
Sunday School class.
Jm
October 10th, 2012
10:13 am
Chuck Schumer is the devil
AmericaShrugged
October 10th, 2012
10:13 am
I long for those good old days when Dem governors would rip us off by just endlessly paving roads that didn’t need it with paving companies they owned. Now Deal runs more devious schemes, like huge kickbacks from TSPOST contractors and Charter school mega businesses. Hope this gets voted down too!
killerj
October 10th, 2012
10:14 am
Good point Jay,now bring up the same Issue with the one,s in the white house to and I will Smile all day,have a good day.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 10th, 2012
10:14 am
JAMVET,
About time someone stepped up and stated the real problem which is that we can’t allow the schools to parent our kids…admittedly, many can’t be involved due to personal circumstances but the fact that the best measure of a schools success is PTA participation speaks volumes..
Erwin's cat
October 10th, 2012
10:14 am
This is an effort to undercut and in time eliminate public schools as we know it.
Given what we already know about some of the districts I don’t see this necessarily as a bad thing
barking frog
October 10th, 2012
10:16 am
Any new school has to be
a good thing even a
Sunday School. The ‘my
school is better than your
school’ people need an
education.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 10th, 2012
10:16 am
Metro Coach — “Why are liberals so anti-choice? Aren’t you supposed to be the party of choice?”
We are. And if you want ’school choice,’ you have it TODAY.
If you want your kid in a different school district, then move. If you want your kid in a private school or academy, or even if you want them in some kind of church-run educational institution, you can pull your kid out of the public school they’re in and MOVE THEM TODAY.
You just can’t have the rest of the population pay for your choice, that’s all. Just like every other free choice you have in your country, you’ve got to pay the freight yourself. And that’s what all this is about.
“You know, like abortion on demand, gay rights, etc. Or is it that you’re afraid that if families are allowed to choose which schools their children attend, and subsequently succeed at those schools, people will realize that the entire government controlled public schools are not the be all end all of education as you would have everyone believe?”
Not at all. I simply believe you should man up, strap on a pair of stones AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF.
“Democrats, the anti-life, anti-choice party.”
Republicans, the party of big, nosy, intrusive gooberment.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
October 10th, 2012
10:16 am
ERWIN’S CAT
are you telling me that those FAILING school districts who have HAD CONTROL for decades ARE NOT the best to fix the problems?
prepare to be attacked
Common Sense
October 10th, 2012
10:17 am
If government schools turned out high quality students, we would not even be having this discussion.
Look before I leap...
October 10th, 2012
10:17 am
Here is a pretty interesting evaluation on the impact of Charter schools
http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf
Note the final line in the summation:
“The charter school movement to date has concentrated its formidable resources and energy on removing barriers to charter school entry into the market. It is time to concentrate equally on removing the barriers to exit. ”
In short it is a mixed bag with some good news and some not so good news for charter proponents.
GA’s performance is at or below average compared to performance of the other 15 states and DC.
There are variances – GA charters do a decent job in improving reading skills but a lousy job in improving math skills. In addition, there are significant variations in terms of performance gains demographically:
Impoverished student substantially exceed the average performance while black and Hispanic students perform worse.
Elementary performance gains are higher than middle and high school gains.
In short, charter schools are not a magic fix to what ails the education system.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 10th, 2012
10:17 am
Mary Elizabeth, any ideas on why Barack Obama, the ‘liberal’, is right in line with the Nathan Deals of the world on this issue?
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
October 10th, 2012
10:17 am
“About time someone stepped up and stated the real problem which is that we can’t allow the schools to parent our kids…admittedly, many can’t be involved due to personal circumstances but the fact that the best measure of a schools success is PTA participation speaks volumes.”
Was that his point? It seemed to me his point was that Conservative parents were the problem, implying that kids of Liberal’s are doing just fine.
Mary Elizabeth
October 10th, 2012
10:18 am
Mick, 9:50 am
“Do they really want to create a nation of elderly paupers? Seems that way…”
===========================================
Mick, many of the top eschelon of wealth and power in America, unfortunately, have contempt for average Americans. That was so obvious when Romney spoke from his gut in the “47% video.”
If Americans wish to pool their resources and pay – all of their working lives – into Social Security and Medicare, then they should be able to be the recipients of those government benefits in their old age, without being labelled “moochers” – not only in name, but also in perception by those of great wealth and power. Not everyone can be “Chiefs” to make America function well; some must be the “Indians” who are the average American workers. That does not mean that these average Americans are less human – or less worthy to be considered equal to those of great wealth and power – from a human and from a spiritual standpoint. In fact, that all men (and women) were created equal was what America was formed to confirm for all history. America is an idea, a work-in-progress, if you will, to confirm that idea. And, America is now at a crossroads to be able to keep that idea alive for posterity, not only for the people of our nation but for the people throughout the world and for all time, as Lincoln so well knew, and died for, in his day.
Common Sense
October 10th, 2012
10:20 am
“You just can’t have the rest of the population pay for your choice, that’s all. Just like every other free choice you have in your country, you’ve got to pay the freight yourself. And that’s what all this is about.”
Ayn Rand could not have said it better.
But you need to define “free”. As it stands today, very little is left to “free” choice.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 10th, 2012
10:21 am
ERWINS CAT
Appropos of nothing but your moniker, did you see the relevance of Erwins Cat in the work of Nobel Prize winners in Physics?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/09/us-nobel-physics-quantum-idUSBRE8980V620121009?feedType=RSS
td
October 10th, 2012
10:21 am
Jay,
You better take note of this day and moment because it is very rare occurrence. I agree with the vast majority of what wrote this morning. Probably for different reason but this Amendment is horrible and should be voted down just like the T-SPLOST was.
Rightwing Troll
October 10th, 2012
10:22 am
“Of course, you libs want to double down on Obama’s failed, miserable presidency, so I guess we might as well do the same with our kids, right?”
NCLB came from where? Public Schools are what we make of them, and considering the teatards and wingnuts have been dismantling and underfunding schools, but not dismantling the miserable failure that NCLB is you as a wingnut have no room to speak on this issue. Public schools are failing because of you, not in spite of you.
Rightwing Troll
October 10th, 2012
10:24 am
Ahhh.. another day, another boatload of bollocks served up by our resident wingnut moochers and takers… (pssst… don’t tell them they’re in that 47%… they’d be crushed…)
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 10th, 2012
10:24 am
“Give people in Georgia local control and you know what your going to get.
Sunday School class.”
sadly, too frickin’ true.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
October 10th, 2012
10:25 am
Examples of things taught in Charter schools in Louisiana.
“God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ.”—America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994…
“[Is] it possible that a fire-breathing animal really existed? Today some scientists are saying yes. They have found large chambers in certain dinosaur skulls…The large skull chambers could have contained special chemical-producing glands. When the animal forced the chemicals out of its mouth or nose, these substances may have combined and produced fire and smoke.”—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
“A few slave holders were undeniably cruel. Examples of slaves beaten to death were not common, neither were they unknown. The majority of slave holders treated their slaves well.”—United States History for Christian Schools, 2nd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 1991
This is what your children will be taught with tax payer dollars at charter schools.
They are already doing it in Louisiana.
“Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years.”—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
barking frog
October 10th, 2012
10:25 am
The public education
factory should operate
24/7 infant to PhD. This
would cure many barriers
to education and eliminate
dangers to children.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 10th, 2012
10:26 am
STEVE,
The inference I got from JamVets post was that conservatives lack of parental involvement was an offset to the same issue facing more liberal voters…its’s all the same…lack of parental involvement knows no differentiation between race or voting preference…IMO it has to do with middle to low income folks who, due to no fault of their own, can offer no involvement…its’ an equal opportunity issue…
Erwin's cat
October 10th, 2012
10:28 am
Stevie Ray
thanks for the link…they maybe able to get me outta the box after all…I always get a kick outta the fact that modern physics is still somewhat still grounded in the 1930’s
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
October 10th, 2012
10:29 am
“[The Ku Klux] Klan in some areas of the country tried to be a means of reform, fighting the decline in morality and using the symbol of the cross. Klan targets were bootleggers, wife-beaters, and immoral movies. In some communities it achieved a certain respectability as it worked with politicians.”—United States History for Christian Schools, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2001
RF
October 10th, 2012
10:30 am
Important note: this commission, if approved by constitutional amendment, will consist of members appointed by the governor, lt. governor, and speaker of the house (if I understand correctly). If that’s true, it’s obvious how political this issue is and what the agenda is. Those three, along with AG Olens are pretty obvious in their intent to create their own, ALEC approved school system while they slowly push traditional public schools out of existence. I cannot, in good conscience, give them that authority via a constitutional amendment. That’s too much authority vested in a group with direct responsibility to only those in the top echelon of state power. Can’t do it, won’t do it, and can’t believe anyone would.
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
10:30 am
Any idea yet how much a k-12 education from Phoenix Grade School will cost? Will it be worth every cent. Cons seem to think so. I wonder how many of the cons graduated from Phoenix University.
yuzeyurbrane
October 10th, 2012
10:31 am
Olens was a good county commissioner but has literally sold his soul to advance in state Republican politics. In other words, he has become a hoe. Glenn Delk, per his own law office website, has made a career of advocacy for an agenda to destroy public schools through vouchers, etc. and defending stockbrokers accused of fraud. His own kids have been the beneficiaries of his efforts. He is a hoe, too. The cutely worded and misleading, and possibly illegal, wording of the preamble to the ballot question on the proposed Charter Amendment also reflects his probable input.
Georgia voters don’t be fooled. This is brought to you by the same folks who brought you T-Splost. Corruption and big bucks are a real peril here. You can measure the degree of the peril by the unprecedented strong-arm tactics utilized to stifle the voice of those who disagree with them. This has now also become an assault on the 1st Amendment free speech rights of us all. Shame on those who exhibit only a faux allegiance to democracy.
bob
October 10th, 2012
10:31 am
btroll, is that the best you can do ? The people you say wanted Davis are the same that endorsed Beverly Hall. I liked the replacement at the time based on his background of running such a large company. But why do I have to be a racist for being involved ? How pathetic are you for saying that people that are involved be racist ? Why is it racist to want our voices heard ? Are you just a small minded person that sees everything through race ? Are blacks racist when they demand answers form public officials ? And if big biz tells me they like Davis then I can’t ask why Davis tells me as a taxpayer he will never consider what I want ? If you accept what big biz tells you then you can do just that. Davis pulled a power play and people are not racist for calling him on it. Furthermore, the replaced people are still in the system which tells me they are qualified to be in the system. Do you think moving a person to a new school 10 miles away gives them any more qualifications ? And do you think it is racist to point out that paying 10 people to do the work of four people is a waste of money ? Does the word logic have any meaning to you ? Davis pulls a stunt that he thinks needs to be remedied by counselors, I point out what a waste it is and all you can come up with is racism ?
Jm
October 10th, 2012
10:32 am
ME
“In fact, that all men (and women) were created equal was what America was formed to confirm for all history.”
Created (born) equal does not mean we all end up equal with respect to wealth. We will all have the same right to vote though.
You’re trapped in your own tangled web of ideas
Bill Orvis White
October 10th, 2012
10:32 am
Public screwels are in the dumps and folk like Librul Jay caterwaul for failed status quo. The entire system NEEDS TO be transformed, NOT REFORMED! The common sense charter school amendment movement coupled with solid vouchers are initiatives that me and my church have been working on for years in all 50 states.
OK, so now why is Jay crying that Georgia’s governor has a few good things to say about charters? THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR DEAL HAS NOT/IS NOT BREAKING ANY RULES! The liberal educational elite have been using taxpayer dollars to push their radical agenda on the public. Well, thanks to FOX News and talk radio, PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP AND STANDING UP TO THIS NONSENSE!
Georgia, VOTE FOR THE AMENDMENT and push for a voucherized school system while urging mothers to stay at home and become educators to their children.
Amen,
Bill
Marty Huggins'
October 10th, 2012
10:33 am
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
October 10th, 2012
10:25 am
If charter schools are universal in that theory as you post proclaims, then why do charter schools out perform their public school counterparts?
Why do a higher percentage graduate and then go onto college from charter schools than from public schools?
Must be cause they pray a lot in charter schools!
Have you ever been in a charter school for any extended period of time?
RF
October 10th, 2012
10:34 am
Also important to note is the open admission by legislators of the state that they have not fully funded schools according to law in over twenty years. The current formula, set by the QBE act, has not been fully funded in its existence. In fact, in the last ten years, state funding has dropped to an average of 38% of total spent on education. When the legislature is crying about not having the money to meet its legal obligations under existing law, it now wants the authority to grant charters and fund those schools, supposedly from some mystery money they will suddenly have. At a time when every state agency has been forced to cut budgets repeatedly, where will they get this money?
Marty Huggins'
October 10th, 2012
10:36 am
TaxPayer
October 10th, 2012
10:30 am
Are you having difficulty in distinguishing the differences between a private for profit school a private non profit school and a charter school?
You are aware all 3 are different right?
Why bring up Pheonix when the discussion is charter schools?
RF
October 10th, 2012
10:37 am
Charter schools across the country have come under scrutiny in recent years over high attrition rates (some as high as 50%). It seems many just remove the kids who won’t score well or who don’t live up the standards of the school. They have that option- just send them on back to the local public schools. Their scores overall aren’t significantly better and in many cases worse than the local public schools with which they are compared. It’s also important to note the number whose population demographics are clearly unbalanced compared with the districts they serve. There’s no golden egg laid here, but a lot of spray paint applied to make them look golden in my opinion.
RF
October 10th, 2012
10:38 am
So Bill, it’s okay for the governor, on state paid time, to campaign for the amendment but it’s not okay for a superintendent to campaign against it? Talk about double standards. If you’re going to legally squelch one side, you have to hold the other to the same standards.
Look before I leap...
October 10th, 2012
10:38 am
“If charter schools are universal in that theory as you post proclaims, then why do charter schools out perform their public school counterparts?”
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 10th, 2012
10:38 am
C. Sense — “Ayn Rand could not have said it better.”
Not in the least. Americans provide services and facilities for the use and benefit of all. But satisfaction is not guaranteed. If you think that I-40 out west is a lousy road and you don’t want to use it to get to your destination, then fine. Perhaps Amtrak or an airline would suit you better — but you don’t get to use *those* facilities or services for free. You either use what’s provided by the taxpayers or you pay for your own choices yourself.
Same goes for education. You’re not obliged to send your kid to your local public schools if you think they’re deficient or unacceptable in some way. Then again, if you send your kid elsewhere, why should the taxpayers have to bear the financial burden of your choice? You HAD a free option and didn’t take it.
“But you need to define “free”. As it stands today, very little is left to “free” choice.”
You can *freely* choose or not choose to use the cost-free option. However, the consequences of your free choice could be that you incur costs that you might have otherwise avoided (by taking the cost-free option).