Romney said he won’t cut education; Romney lied
UPDATE: In an extension of his attempt at re-invention, Mitt Romney is now proclaiming his “47 percent” comments as “just completely wrong.” That is a 180-degree reversal of his position on the night that infamous videotape was revealed, in which Romney said in a press conference that the statement was “not elegantly stated” but essentially correct.
In effect, Romney is acknowledging that a conservative Republican — conservative by today’s definition — cannot be elected president because the American people reject that mindset and the policies that go with it, so he is ditching that persona and once again attempting to reinvent himself on the fly.
————————–
In Wednesday’s “Debacle in Denver,” I was struck by one telling exchange between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney regarding education. It began with this statement from Obama:
“So when Governor Romney indicates that he wants to cut taxes and potentially benefit folks like me and him, and to pay for it, we’re having to initiate significant cuts in federal support for education, that makes a difference.
You know, his running mate, Congressman Ryan, put forward a budget that reflects many of the principles that Governor Romney’s talked about. And it wasn’t very detailed. This seems to be a trend. But — but what it did do is to — if you extrapolated how much money we’re talking about, you’d look at cutting the education budget by up to 20 percent. “
———————————-
To which Romney later responded:
“Mr. President, you’re entitled, as the president, to your own airplane and to your own house, but not to your own facts — (laughter) — all right? I’m — I’m not going to cut education funding. I don’t have any plan to cut education funding and grants that go to people going to college. I’m planning on continuing to grow, so I’m not planning on making changes there.”
—————————
That seemed a pretty stark difference: Obama claiming Romney will cut education by 20 percent; Romney claiming that he has no plans to cut education and in fact would continue to expand eduction spending. That exchange helped to set the tone of the evening and was one of the more specific areas in which the new, more moderate Romney — Romney 6.4 you might say — had emerged.
So I thought I’d start digging a little to get at the truth: Which man was correct. To start, I turned to Mitt Romney’s website, in which he outlines in broad detail his plans to cut federal spending. There we find two steps , published below in bold, that Romney promises to implement immediately upon taking office:
“– Send Congress a bill on Day One that cuts non-security discretionary spending by 5 percent across the board.” (Education is considered non-security discretionary spending. If we take him at his word, this is a Romney promise to immediately slash education spending across the board by 5 percent.)
– “Pass the House Republican Budget proposal, rolling back President Obama’s government expansion by capping non-security discretionary spending below 2008 levels.” (Rolling back non-security discretionary spending to the level of five years earlier would require significant cuts in education. And rather than exempt education from such cuts, House Republicans appear to target that area, particularly “education funding and grants that go to people going to college,” as Romney put it.)
We can, if you wish, give Romney the benefit of the doubt here. For now, let’s leave open the possibility that he disagrees with the House Republicans on this one issue. What does he himself have to say about education spending in general and college tuition-assistance in particular?
Let’s turn here to the 34-page “white paper” on education put out by the Romney campaign, titled “A Chance for Every Child”. And what do we find?
“Unfortunately, like a man with a hammer that sees every problem as a nail, President Obama’s policy response to every education challenge has been more federal spending. Increased spending on our K-12 public schools has failed to produce results, and increased spending is already one of higher education’s greatest problems….
Unlike President Obama, Mitt Romney understands that more spending is the last thing our schools need.”
Hmmm. “… increased (federal) spending is already one of higher education’s greatest problems”?
That doesn’t sound like a man committed to preserving let alone expanding spending in that area, now does it? Now let’s bring the focus in tighter still, to those “grants that go to people going to college” that Romney specifically referenced. Those would be Pell grants, a government program for which I have a particular fondness.
Back in my own college days, I was a poor, lazy member of the “47 percent” working nights and weekends and summer jobs to put myself through school because my parents lacked the resources to contribute much. To finance my education, I leaned heavily on what were known at the time as Basic Educational Opportunity Grants. Without them, I’m not sure I would have made it.
Today, most Pell grants go to students with a family income of $30,000 or less, which isn’t much. These are people for whom upward mobility is a real struggle. The maximum annual grant amount of $5,550 isn’t much either, but for those who receive it, I know from personal experience that it is essential. And what does Romney have to say about the Pell grant program in his white paper?
“… as a result of the expanding entitlement mentality, the Pell Grant program — the foundation of the federal investment in student financial aid — is on unsure financial footing. To keep up with the program’s massive increases, the government has been forced to take steps such as eliminating subsidized loans for graduate students. A Romney Administration will refocus Pell Grant dollars on the students that need them most and place the program on a responsible long-term path that avoids future funding cliffs and last-minute funding patches.”
Somehow, linking a program to “the entitlement mentality” and suggesting it has been overfunded does not sound particularly promising, now does it? It’s a linkage the paper makes not once but twice, arguing elsewhere that “America is fast becoming a society where … a government loan is an entitlement.” That’s GOP-speak for placement on the endangered list.
Now, what about actual numbers? As a policy statement, the education white paper contains no specific data about education spending levels, but do we have other ways of estimating what Romney has in mind?
Yes, we do. In documents focusing on spending, Romney has set certain overall budget-cutting goals as well as goals for discretionary, non-defense spending, which again is the category that includes k-12 education as well as higher ed. Assuming that Medicare is exempted from future spending cuts, as Romney seemed to indicate in the debate, spending on discretionary, non-defense spending would have to be slashed to 1.3 percent of GDP by 2022 to meet his targets.
I used the word “slashed” above. Is that justified by the extent of the cuts proposed? Yes, it is justified and then some.
As the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities notes, “spending for this category has averaged 3.9 percent of GDP over the past 50 years and has never fallen below 3.2 percent of GDP during this period.” So cutting it to 1.3 percent of GDP, as promised by Romney, would require a deep, deep slash.
In fact, assuming that Medicare, Social Security and defense are exempt from cuts, spending in non-defense discretionary programs would have to be cut by 32 percent by 2016 and 53 percent by 2022 to meet his goals.
And yes, you could argue theoretically that education might made be exempt from such cuts under Romney. Theoretically, that could be true. However, when you consider that other programs in that category include veterans health care, air traffic controllers, the FBI, highway and transit construction etc., exempting education from 50 percent cuts just isn’t likely.
Budget discussions are supposedly all about the bottom line. And here’s the bottom line in this particular discussion:
You cannot simultaneously be the genial, friendly, moderate Mitt Romney on the stage in Denver who claims that he has no intention of cutting education spending, but in fact plans to increase it, while also demanding credit as the severely conservative Mitt Romney out to wean America of that “entitlement mentality” by slashing social spending, including education, to the bone.
It doesn’t — or shouldn’t — work like that.
– Jay Bookman
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385 comments Add your comment
Usmc
October 5th, 2012
8:27 am
Jay LIED…. People SIGHED!
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:28 am
Sort of like all the Democrats that supported troops in Iraq. Before they were against it.
So you’re saying that after 2 years in Iraq, Democrats didn’t learn something new… like there never was any WMDs and Saddam was not the huge nuclear threat that the Bush team portrayed them?
DannyX
October 5th, 2012
8:29 am
“Sort of like all the Democrats that supported troops in Iraq. Before they were against it.”
That’s just dumb, there is a big difference between not supporting the troops and not supporting the war. Fact is it was Bush that allowed our troops to go to war with insufficient armor.
Taxi Smith
October 5th, 2012
8:29 am
You know, someone accused Obama of lying once, and you media types just went bonkers. You, sir, are a hypocrite.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 5th, 2012
8:29 am
“Hell NO. I miss the good ol’ days of real estate collapse, 700,000 a month job losses, and stock market crash.”
Lehman collapse
Bear Stearns
Countrywide …
those were the days my friend
we thought they’d never end
we’d sing and dance, forever and a day
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 5th, 2012
8:29 am
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:24 am
Thomas Heyward
No one is compelled to apply for or use a Pell Grant or any other type of grant. Or subsidized student housing. Or any one of many other examples.
——————————————————————————————————-
.
If you want to buy an education in Amerika today…….you ARE compelled to pay inflated rates, because of Federal Funds Distortion .
See Lottery.
.
‘I don’t know, but I’m guessing they charge $22K a year at Woodward Academy for a reason. THEY certainly think spending matters.’
.
THEY can be fired if not performing.
No so……………the State.
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:30 am
I’d be interested in some data suggesting in Texas that scores and graduation rates improved by throwing more money at the problem…
Scores and graduation rates in Georgia — while still too low — have been increasing year over year for quite a while now. The same is true of Atlanta public schools, and of public schools in general. The long-term trend is upward, based on almost every bit of data available.
b-troll
October 5th, 2012
8:30 am
“I don’t know, but I’m guessing they charge $22K a year at Woodward Academy for a reason. THEY certainly think spending matters.”
Jay does do a lot of that.
JKL2
October 5th, 2012
8:30 am
byteme- Again, focusing on the tree. Missing the forest around it entirely.
Here’s a forest obama has completely missed: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 5th, 2012
8:30 am
Jay, that $22k is so your kids don’t have to interact with the 47%.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:31 am
Here’s a forest obama has completely missed: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Pretty much so has every President since Reagan except for Clinton. All those Republican Presidents and Republican Congresses completely missed it. Were you trolling around blaming them for that? Or is your outrage recent?
Lord Help Us
October 5th, 2012
8:31 am
Unemployment down to 7.8%. Another move in the right direction.
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:32 am
Go here — http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/ — and click on Georgia.
A whisper in Medvedev's ear
October 5th, 2012
8:32 am
After watching the debate which candidate would you want to stand in the face of a nuclear threat? Really???
stands for decibels
October 5th, 2012
8:32 am
By the way, that phrase “throwing more money”–is ANYONE who isn’t already well to the right-of-center even the least bit positively responsive to it?
Whenever I hear it, I generally think “some tightwad jerk who already Got His and doesn’t want any of Those People to Get Theirs if he [it's almost invariably a "he"] can help it.”
/drive-by
GT
October 5th, 2012
8:32 am
Bill Clinton is the only person I have heard tell Romney and his like they have a lot of brass. At that juncture they were doing things like cutting 700 billion from the Medicare budget and accusing the Obama plan of the same thing. A thief accusing his victim of being the robber, a bully telling the teacher his punching bag hit him first.
Now they have gone a step beyond, accusing us of their affairs, they are now trying to camouflage themselves in with us, like spies. My answer is one my dear old father use to tell me. You are who you run with. If Romney is this moderate he suddenly on Oct. 3 woke up being, why does he have the huge money and support of such right wing minded people.
I thought O was going the right direction introducing Trump’s name to the debate but he stopped short. I am sure Romney would bring up Wright, but the return would be Wright does not own Obama; there are people with canceled checks that own Romney. When you see people celebrating Romney’s debate which ones represent your cord beliefs. Few very few.
Now Romney claims his Mass. roots as governor. He claims under his administration and because of him the state was number one in education. They were number one long before Romney got there and I would imagine are number one now. Romney doesn’t give credit to his predecessors bad or good, if he won the lottery tomorrow he would tell you how his genius earned that money.
JKL2
October 5th, 2012
8:32 am
dannyx- Fact is it was Bush that allowed our troops to go to war with insufficient armor.
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Lord Help Us
October 5th, 2012
8:33 am
Job gains in August revised UP to 181k.
Job gains in July revised UP to 142k.
Now, admit it cons…you were hoping for bad news…
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:34 am
Byte,
You tell me. How do you help improve a culture? By throwing money at it? Didn’t think so.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:34 am
Unemployment down to 7.8%
WTF? And gains of only 114K jobs?
We’re gonna hear a lot about “cooked numbers” from the anti-math crowd.
Lord Help Us
October 5th, 2012
8:34 am
Stock market futures UP…again…
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:35 am
You tell me. How do you help improve a culture? By throwing money at it? Didn’t think so.
I asked you first. Clearly you haven’t thought about it enough before you spouted off.
DannyX
October 5th, 2012
8:35 am
“Unemployment down to 7.8%. Another move in the right direction.”
LHU, just wait until all the conspiracy theories get going. Can’t wait until we get the “unskewed” numbers.
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:35 am
Stevie Ray
It’s been going on for a number of years here in Texas, lots of court cases and implementing legislation and tracking results thru the state-wide tests given at various grade levels and in various subjects. There’s a wealth of information to sift through.
Pretty much all the objections here were not based on the idea of “a kid in a district that has a tax base that supports $2,000 a year per student has the same achievement level as a district whose tax base supports a $10,000 a year allocation.”
What gets argued now is ‘how much is enough” and “if my district wants to raise funds in excess of that amount, how much should we be able to keep in our district?”
Seems to me the flip side is, funding level has no bearing at all on academic achievement between large entities. I think that’d be a tough case to make.
b-troll
October 5th, 2012
8:35 am
Here’s what a non-blind partisan Jay could have said, that would not have been intellectually dishonest:
“Romney will likely either reduce, or not increase spending on education, while Obama would likely either hold flat or increase education spending.”
Nothing wrong factually with that because it isn’t stated with the certitude of a blind partisan, and recognizes that, consistent with their general philosophy (Obama Bigger Gov, Romney Smaller Gov), Obama would probably spend more on education than Romney, all things being equal.
But that’s not the point Jay made. Unfortunately.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:36 am
Job gains in August revised UP to 181k.
Job gains in July revised UP to 142k.
Means we’re not looking at a recession soon. The revisions tell you which way the economy is really moving.
JKL2
October 5th, 2012
8:36 am
USinUK- Lehman collapse, Bear Stearns, Countrywide …
It’s shame obama wasn’t around to bail them out. It’s a miracle our country servived.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 5th, 2012
8:36 am
7.8%
mmmmmm mmmmm good
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:36 am
DannyX,
Don’t be mad but what about all those democrats that voted for the war? I guess you are letting them off because they are good libs?
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:37 am
114,000 new jobs created, PLUS:
“The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for July was revised from +141,000 to +181,000, and the change for August was revised from +96,000 to +142,000.”
In other words, that’s another 86,000 jobs that had been undercounted in previous reports, for a total gain of 200,000 jobs.
TaxPayer
October 5th, 2012
8:37 am
Come on cons. There are so many Mitt’s to talk about. Pick one and tell us why he’s your man.
JamVet
October 5th, 2012
8:37 am
I know homeschoolers that pay $1,000/kid/year and got into Harvard.
Sure you do.
The more I watch this campaign the more I understand who we ended up with the criminal GWB for eight years.
Though the Flip Flop Party has chosen a Flopper candidate, and not a Flipper candidate this time.
Remember, when even in the face of staggering overwhelming evidence that they were dead wrong, the Bush administration held fast to their failed positions (the botched invasion and occupation, the botched response to Katrina, the overseeing of the greatest fiscal meltdown in several lifetimes, torture, increasing pollution, bankrupting the US Treasury and on and on and on and on ) and they were revered for doing so?
Principled and unwavering they were!
Now the neocons nominate the EXACT OPPOSITE.
A man so vacillating that his greatest competitor is himself.
And the loyal, albeit highly confused and browbeaten Republican “base” now reveres him for being so unprincipled and wavering.
At this rate, you cons will not see the inside of the White House for a LONG, LONG time…
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:38 am
Romney will likely either reduce, or not increase spending on education, while Obama would likely either hold flat or increase education spending.”
He will likely either get up or not get up this morning and go campaign or go do a fund-raiser. That would also be factually accurate, but completely moronic… just like your point. He said it. Then he tried to “un-say” it in the debate to appear more un-”severely conservative”. Hate it for you.
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:38 am
Byte,
I have thought about it a lot. I know what it takes. It takes people changing their minds about how they are living and desiring something better for themselves and their families. It’s a heart change, not a monetary change.
I was just curious if you had any thoughts yourself that didn’t involve giving away money when that hasn’t worked for 50 years.
b-troll
October 5th, 2012
8:38 am
Obama fail.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-04/unemployment-drop-masks-labor-malaise-chart-of-the-day.html
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:38 am
“If you want to buy an education in Amerika ”
Okay, Thomas Heyward Jr., you’re officially off the deep end into lalaland.
Good-bye.
TaxPayer
October 5th, 2012
8:39 am
Did someone say “less than 8%”. Uh Oh. Mitt’s gonna need to re-invent himself.
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:40 am
Jam,
I’m not voting for Romney. Don’t like him at all. My point is that both sides are just sheep baaing away. Too bad you seem to be one of them.
JKL2
October 5th, 2012
8:40 am
byteme- Or is your outrage recent?
Since about 2006 when the Demwits took over and the spending train really came off the tracks.
If you thought Bush was bad, obama is Bush on steriods X 10. You must really hate that guy.
Lord Help Us
October 5th, 2012
8:40 am
Cons are very disappointed by this good news re: jobs and unemployment…
True patriots…
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
October 5th, 2012
8:41 am
Who’re you gonna believe?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19840876
TaxPayer
October 5th, 2012
8:41 am
Obama got the unemployment rate below 8% in spite of the efforts of the Republicans. Damn! That’s gotta hurt.
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
8:41 am
“U.S. economy adds 114,000 jobs in September, and unemployment rate falls to 7.8%. ”
A lot more people must have stopped looking for jobs w/ only 114,00 jobs added to make unemployment drop that far.
Good timing for Obama I guess.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:42 am
It takes people changing their minds about how they are living and desiring something better for themselves and their families. It’s a heart change, not a monetary change.
So a whole “culture” (using the term you used) changes their mind all at once, right? Or does it start by working on the future generation to make sure they get the chances their families can’t provide them? You seem to think that people just spontaneously change. And you’d be completely wrong, of course. Doesn’t happen. Hasn’t happened.
So, yes, you throw money at the children to make sure they don’t make the same mistakes and hope you get 50% each generation, so that you make a dent in the problem over 2 or 3 generations.
Or you point at them and say “it’s your own fault, deal with it” and make sure that the wealthy can still light their cigars with $100 bills. Welcome to your Republican Party.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:42 am
Gotta run. Work!
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:42 am
Peadawg, you are forgetting to account for the 86K in previously uncounted job growth in July and August. Again, that’s 200,000 jobs we did not have before.
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
8:42 am
TaxPayer, aren’t you always asking cons where the jobs are?
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:42 am
b-troll
“Here’s what a non-blind partisan Jay could have said, that would not have been intellectually dishonest:
“Romney will likely either reduce, or not increase spending on education, while Obama would likely either hold flat or increase education spending.””
But that’s not what Romney said at the debate, is it?
DannyX
October 5th, 2012
8:43 am
“In other words, that’s another 86,000 jobs that had been undercounted in previous reports, for a total gain of 200,000 jobs.”
And before Republicans start screaming about the revisions I would like to remind them that the new numbers are now in line with the figures ADP produced for those months.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 5th, 2012
8:43 am
“Now, admit it cons…you were hoping for bad news…”
seriously – I’m reading a republican friend of mine talk about how the growth is SO HORRIBLE
Tea Party group founded and funded by billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch
October 5th, 2012
8:43 am
In a way, the Koch brothers are simply fulfilling their father’s legacy. In 1958, Fred Koch — the founder of Koch Industries — joined a group of manufacturing executives and Robert Welch to found the John Birch Society, a virulent far-right group that dominated the civil rights debate. The John Birch Society organized an impeachment campaign against then-Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren for the Brown v. Board decision outlawing racial segregation, and mobilized its supporters to oppose integration of schools on the grounds that mixing black and white would lead to the “mongrelization” of the races. Fred supported the John Birch Society’s anti-civil rights campaign, and wrote a screed denouncing the civil rights movement as communist-inspired.
Charles and David did not only inherit an oil company, they inherited a political philosophy. The Tea Party movement, orchestrated by AFP and other Koch fronts, reflects the paranoid style of the movement started by their father, Fred. As Thom Hartmann has explained, corporate interests have long funded far-right, paranoid movements to continually shift the balance of politics in America. The radical right creates political space for corporate candidates like Richard Nixon or Mitt Romney to appear “moderate” in contrast. David Koch, it should be noted, actually supports Romney for president in 2012 even though David’s fronts have spent the last two years boosting reactionaries like Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC).
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/01/12/138501/koch-segregation/?mobile=nc
Citizen of the World
October 5th, 2012
8:43 am
How could putting more money into education not help? Nicer facilities, better-paid teachers, more state-of-the-art equipment, more opportunities for ambitious, qualified students to pursue higher education?
I think part of America’s academic decline comes from broken homes, poverty, too much TV, etc.; however, the same children who are hindered by these disadvantages are further hindered by substandard school environments. Oprah did a show once where she took students from an affluent neighborhood and students from a poor neighborhood switched schools one day. The difference in environment and opportunities was as stark as the difference between a vienna sausage and a filet mignon, and that just isn’t right.
JamVet
October 5th, 2012
8:44 am
Jm is so confused, he doesn’t even know why moniker to use these days! LOL!
It matters not, the nonsense remains constant…
Don’t be mad but what about all those democrats that voted for the war?
Meat, take a widdle bitty guess as the the actual percentage of ALL of those democrats.
Because you have no clue, cannot do basic research , I’ll tell you.
43%.
Your Chickenhawk Party?
97%
You do the math. (Oops and LOL!)
Jm
October 5th, 2012
8:44 am
67 million watched debate
Good for Romney
Second debate may get good viewership to see if Obama stumbles again
The man minus his tele is less formidable
JKL2
October 5th, 2012
8:44 am
-I know homeschoolers that pay $1,000/kid/year and got into Harvard.
Were they foreign exchange students like our president?
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:45 am
Byte,
I’m not a Republican.
No I don’t think it happens at once and I dont’ think we cut education funding. I just think we have to regroup and come up with a new strategy that isn’t based just around easy money. The money isn’t there anymore anyway.
mike
October 5th, 2012
8:45 am
7.8% how convenient?
JamVet
October 5th, 2012
8:46 am
Now, admit it cons…you were hoping for bad news…
I swear that more than a few of the worst of our bloggers are PO’d that Osama bin Laden is not still alive.
ANYTHING to make the hated libs look bad.
RB from Gwinnett
October 5th, 2012
8:46 am
Note to Jay and all his fellow liberals and Obama apologists….
The fact you are unable to understand Romneys plans does not make them untrue. Stop being afraid of things you don’t understand. Seriously, you don’t understand how your refrigerator works either, but that doesn’t make it scary or wrong. If you’ve been paying attention, you know with absolute certainty what Obama is doing is not working and continuing to do it is the definition of insanity. Time to step aside and let the adults take over.
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:47 am
“And before Republicans start screaming about the revisions I would like to remind them that the new numbers are now in line with the figures ADP produced for those months.
Actually, their previous complaint had been that monthly figures were always OVERestimated, and then revised downward later when no one was looking. So they’re going to have to perform a flipflop to make the claim above.
Not that I doubt their ability to perform said manuever.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
October 5th, 2012
8:47 am
Had a doctor’s appointment this morning for what I thought was to get my stitches out. I showed up at 0815, they hustled me into a room, ripped off my bandages, looked at my incisions and said, I kid you not, ” good, healing well, to you want another bandage?” I asked if they were going to remove the stitches, they said, “No, they will dissolve in water”. Fifteen minutes later and $40.00 dollars lighter, I’m back at work. Yep, I can’t wait for ObamaCare!
Lord Help Us
October 5th, 2012
8:48 am
‘Not that I doubt their ability to perform said manuever.’
Linguine spines are sometimes helpful…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 5th, 2012
8:48 am
IRS Looking Into Tax Schemes That Reportedly Boosted Romney’s IRA
http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2012/10/03/irs-probes-ira-abuses/
Jm
October 5th, 2012
8:48 am
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette
October 5th, 2012
8:36 am
7.8%
mmmmmm mmmmm good
LinkReport this comment
Sure. For Europe.
JKL2
October 5th, 2012
8:49 am
b-troll- Obama fail. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-04/unemployment-drop-masks-labor-malaise-chart-of-the-day.html
It’s even got a graph! I wonder if Jay will include that in his “all hail the mighty obama” article he’s busy typing right now?
Tundra Dude
October 5th, 2012
8:49 am
Jeff H:
Jay – the real question is where is the President taking the country?
You’re entitled to your own airplane and to your own house, but you don’t get to decide what is the Real question.
>>Every single economic expert is clear – we are heading toward a financial cliff.
If you believe that, it would behoove you to take up cliff-diving.
Actually, nearly all these “experts” are brain dead. (their brains are wedded to their models)
They completely missed the multi-Trillion $$ housing bubble, and now you choose to rely on them to warn you of impending disaster….??
straitroad
October 5th, 2012
8:49 am
Jay, you are becoming less credible by the day. You can claim instances where Romney lies and I can do the same with Obama. I think Obama put it best when he said that if you have a poor record, then you must focus on attaking your opponent. This is Obama’s strategy at this point. If you honestly think that this country is moving in a positive direction, then you are either living in a bubble or are incapable of objectivity.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:49 am
JAY,
Thanks for the data..the quibbling I have with that data is that it proves my point more than the opposite..on a national level, there have not been meaningful improvement in any of the metrics since the 90’s despite spending increases of some 30% and expanding..
I’m not sure how relevant the GA data is when the issue is a national one.
Fact is, no amount of money can replace parental support..
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:49 am
I’m glad unemployment is dropping. It’s good for the country.
I also wish, and I’ve wished this for years, that we reported the full numbers on inflation, unemployment and other economic indicators. Not that it would change unemployment dropping. It obviously is. It would, however, give us a good idea of what’s really going on in the country.
From cnbc.com “The government’s most widely publicized unemployment rate measures only those who are out of a job and currently looking for work. It does not count discouraged potential employees who have quit looking, nor those who are underemployed — wanting to work full-time but forced to work part-time.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48468748/Real_Unemployment_Rate_Shows_Far_More_Jobless
Our politicians have fooled us for years (both parties) and we’ve let them do it.
Good news today but lets demand our parties live in reality.
Butch Cassidy (I)
October 5th, 2012
8:50 am
mike -7.8% how convenient?”
Not really, if you want to cook the books in favor of your candidate, then you really need to be around 5% to 6%.
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:50 am
Normal
Look on the bright side. You just did your part to make sure your insurance company CEO gets his bonus for efficiency!
Back later -
Patty
October 5th, 2012
8:50 am
And yet, Mass. was (and still is) one of the top states in education in the country–now what state was it that Mr. Romney was governor of? The guy knows how to get kids educated and sometimes, it’s not about money. IT”S about doing your job and teaching!
meinpvb
October 5th, 2012
8:50 am
Jay, if you want to talk about lies and distortions go for it. But give the other side the same digging. Obama said he would close Gitmo. Obama said he would have a transparent government; he passed Obamacare in the dead of night. He said he could bring down the jobless numbers; they have gone up. He said if he couldn’t fix the economy he should be a one term president. Now he is telling us he needs more time. He raised the deficit by trillions of dollars, after telling voters that when Bush did it, it was “unpatriotic. Yes, he took over during a horrible time for our economy. So did Reagan. All I hear from Obama is “Bush’s fault.” Bush is long gone. I see Obama on The View, on David Letterman, playing golf and partying with Beyonce and Jay Z. During the debate he looked shocked that anyone might disagree or question him. His hubris is astounding and still the media gives him a pass. So before you start throwing stones at Romney, please, please, please admit that Obama lies and distorts also.
Finch
October 5th, 2012
8:52 am
Don’t recall seeing any quotes whereby the President stated he would not run for a second term. As far as bipartisanship – I recall the president inviting the Republicans over to watch the Super Bowl game at the White House and other events where he has extended the olive branch and they were rude enough to decline. You can only offer your open hand so many times while the other guys holds his in a fist. Remember Mitch McConnell threw the first punch in stating the Republican’s objective was to ensure this was a one-term president. So much for working for the American people.
I am having trouble with this entire “I am so devoutely religious” thing. How can Romany play the Christian card while standing up there being dishonest – as fact-checked by PoliticFact. He says one thing at one event, then denies it at the other, yet professes to claim that being a Christian is important to him. What type of Christianity is this?
As far as the debate – Mitt was the Oscar-winning actor and let’s not forget -these are not debates, they are cheap stage productions using scripted performers. His “acting” did not change the fact he wants to voucherize Medicare, privatize Social Security and give the wealthy a free ride.
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
8:52 am
From foxnews –
“The U.S. unemployment rate fell to 7.8 percent last month, dropping below 8 percent for the first time in nearly four years. The rate fell because more people found work, a trend that could impact the presidential election.”
You know they hated to write that.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 5th, 2012
8:52 am
Jm
October 5th, 2012
8:48 am
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette
October 5th, 2012
8:36 am
7.8%
mmmmmm mmmmm good
LinkReport this comment
Sure. For Europe.
.
.
.
.
What?
TaxPayer
October 5th, 2012
8:53 am
TaxPayer, aren’t you always asking cons where the jobs are?
I like to ask them how their 2010 jobs campaign is working. I never get much of an answer. Given that their jobs bills have not been passed, I don’t expect anything more than what they have said to date, i.e., “our jobs bills are stuck in the Senate.” Poor things.
scott
October 5th, 2012
8:53 am
Jay….And your thoughts on all of Obama’s lies? Crickets…chirp chirp chirp
Fred ™
October 5th, 2012
8:53 am
A whisper in Medvedev’s ear
October 5th, 2012
8:32 am
After watching the debate which candidate would you want to stand in the face of a nuclear threat? Really???
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Holy Jesus hanging on a cross REALLY? This is your scare tactic? Nuclear Threat? Did you just crawl out of your fallout shelter still thinking it was1956? time for you to duck and cover…….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_cover
Butch Cassidy (I)
October 5th, 2012
8:54 am
RB – “Seriously, you don’t understand how your refrigerator works either, but that doesn’t make it scary or wrong.”
Thanks RB, I’ll remember that if my refrigerator ever decides to run for POTUS.
Tundra Dude
October 5th, 2012
8:54 am
I swear that more than a few of the worst of our bloggers are PO’d that Osama bin Laden is not still alive.
The Obama Administration has been an unmitigated disaster” – Osama Bin Laden
Fred ™
October 5th, 2012
8:54 am
Usmc
October 5th, 2012
8:27 am
Jay LIED…. People SIGHED!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Since when did YOU become so funny lol?
Good one.
Joseph
October 5th, 2012
8:54 am
How exactly did Romney lie Bookman? He’s not President yet! How could he have possibly already cut education when he hasn’t been elected yet. Wait till Jan 20th though and we’ll see…
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
8:54 am
“I like to ask them how their 2010 jobs campaign is working.”
Unemployment just dropped to 7.8%.
scott
October 5th, 2012
8:55 am
I cannot believe you idiots are taklign about this job number. It is not because more people found work…it’s because more people stopped looking for work. Seriously people. GET A CLUE!
Mick
October 5th, 2012
8:55 am
rb
Wrong. Four years ago we were dangling on the edge of a cliff, a convenient fact that you and others gloss over ever so smoothly. We are climbing back up steadily, yet republicans demand that we fly straigt to the top in a single bound; reality does not work that way…
Pell-Grant Girl
October 5th, 2012
8:55 am
As someone who has received Pell-Grants for the last three years of her college education, I think he has a reason for doing this. The grant program is in place to cover school expenses and if you have no job and need help with school expenses they do their job. However, I also carried a 40 hour job while going to school while receiving the government aid because the government aid just wasn’t enough. The government is always going to give people just enough to get by and people that want better for themselves, their lives, and their families should want better. As someone who had no choice but to live on this system as a child, I barely even got shoes more than once a year. I have family members who abuse this system all the time. They are more than able to work, but they don’t want to. I’ve seen the result of using and abusing this type of system and as a result I want no part of it. I want to work and I want to live above the means that the government has given me. They were there in my time of need and got me on my feet. That is what this system is in place for. To help you get further in life. Not to keep you in the same spot. These programs are VERY necessary. I would never argue that they weren’t, but there is abuse within them. By taking away some of the aid, we will see who is abusing it because if they aren’t getting aid from the government anymore and are able to work they will get a job. However we’ve all seen it before, one person messes up and the group gets punished. It’s sad that it has come to that. There is no perfect solution, but it’s better than putting more money into a fund when America is in so much debt as it is.
Master(de)bater
October 5th, 2012
8:56 am
Ben @ 5:57 am
“Romney is nothing more than a car salesman.”
Only thing is that his “car” is way better than Mr. Obama’s “rusty old bicycle.”
Saying that one is a salesman and the other is not is ridiculous. It’s the product that matters. After 4 years of “rusty old bicycle,” Obama now apparently wants to sell us a brand spanking new kickstand as an “upgrade.”
Thanks, but no thanks.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 5th, 2012
8:56 am
“You know they hated to write that.”
haha – no kidding
Williebkind
October 5th, 2012
8:56 am
Here we go again! Liberals using the biased media to broadcast misinformation and when they get called on it with the facts they turn to semantics like Bill Clintin, “If “is” is “is”… It is rather refreshing to see the liberals back at their routines of propaganda and misinformation rather than gloating over something or someone who is completely lazy and incompetent. Of course only the conservative told lies and never will the biased media report all the lies and misinformation about Obama and his administration.
Joseph
October 5th, 2012
8:56 am
Hey Bookman I can’t wait for your tripe about the fuzzy math unemployment rate dropping…. U-6 still 14.7…
Citizen of the World
October 5th, 2012
8:56 am
is it the Romney who says “I will mow the grass on Sunday” or the one who says “I will NOT mow the grass on Sunday.”
This should be amended: Is it the Romney who says “I will hire an illegal alien to mow the grass on Sunday” or the one who says “I will NOT hire an illegal alien to mow the grass on Sunday.”
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:57 am
JAY,
The unemployment rate is a fallacy if not considering those folks underemployed or leaving the job market…despite BO’s supporters efforts to suggest that he has done anything to improve employment…
The labor force participation rate – which has fallen significantly, from 66.1 percent in 2008 to 63.5 percent today – tells us far more. That’s because it includes everybody of working age, even those who have left the work force. The unemployment rate excludes such individuals, presenting a rosier picture than exists.
Indeed, the focus on the unemployment rate masks the ineffectiveness of government “jobs” policies. Politicians can lower the U-3 rate – and make things seem better than they are – by making it easier for people to leave the workforce.
Measuring unemployment inclusive of underemployed and those who stopped looking tells a much realistic account of what’s really happening..
http://www.freeby50.com/2012/08/trends-in-unemployment-versus.html
straitroad
October 5th, 2012
8:57 am
Not that it matters to most on this board, but the economy has to add roughly 135,000 jobs each month to stay even. It isn’t mathematically possible to add 114,000 jobs and drop 3 tenths of a percentage. And looking into the numbers we see that the majority of these jobs are part time. That’s one sorry measuring stick.
will the "REAL" Mitt Romney please stand up?
October 5th, 2012
8:57 am
When Romney criticizes Obama on education, ask what he did as Massachusetts’ Governor…
Want to know what Massachusetts educators learned from Mitt Romney‘s single term as Massachusetts governor? He forced them into increased classroom sizes, school budget cuts, higher fees and less out-of-school services for students.
https://underthelobsterscope.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/when-romney-criticizes-obama-on-education-ask-what-he-did-as-massachusetts-governor/
Fred ™
October 5th, 2012
8:59 am
Seriously, you don’t understand how your refrigerator works either,
I understand how my refrigerator works. I can, (and have), even fix it if it breaks. If I DIDN’T know how it workedI could easily find out though. Here let me show you, don’t worry, I’m typing this slowly so you can keep up…….
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+does+a+refrigerator+work%3F
Williebkind
October 5th, 2012
8:59 am
“Unemployment just dropped to 7.8%.”
Read further dear liberal! It is part time seasonal jobs. You know it is harvest season and these jobs will only last a couple of months. If “is” is “is” right?
Jm
October 5th, 2012
8:59 am
Granny
7.8% is only something one would be proud of, if you’re European
The tragedy of low expectations, one might say
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
9:00 am
“Read further dear liberal!”
I stopped reading since I’m not a liberal.
jconservative
October 5th, 2012
9:01 am
Unemployment rate just came out – 7.8%. Bad news for Romney and the Republican campaign.
Good news for the country.
The Republican House, Senate and presidential campaign have hollered for 4 years about unemployment being over 8%. Now it is under 8%. Expect a bounce for Obama in the polls.
Those who believe the unemployment rate is “skewed” need to realize that the formula has been the same for decades. If is is wrong today it was wrong in 1983.
The next release date is 11/2, just before the election.