Romney said he won’t cut education; Romney lied
UPDATE: In an extension of his attempt at re-invention, Mitt Romney is now proclaiming his “47 percent” comments as “just completely wrong.” That is a 180-degree reversal of his position on the night that infamous videotape was revealed, in which Romney said in a press conference that the statement was “not elegantly stated” but essentially correct.
In effect, Romney is acknowledging that a conservative Republican — conservative by today’s definition — cannot be elected president because the American people reject that mindset and the policies that go with it, so he is ditching that persona and once again attempting to reinvent himself on the fly.
————————–
In Wednesday’s “Debacle in Denver,” I was struck by one telling exchange between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney regarding education. It began with this statement from Obama:
“So when Governor Romney indicates that he wants to cut taxes and potentially benefit folks like me and him, and to pay for it, we’re having to initiate significant cuts in federal support for education, that makes a difference.
You know, his running mate, Congressman Ryan, put forward a budget that reflects many of the principles that Governor Romney’s talked about. And it wasn’t very detailed. This seems to be a trend. But — but what it did do is to — if you extrapolated how much money we’re talking about, you’d look at cutting the education budget by up to 20 percent. “
———————————-
To which Romney later responded:
“Mr. President, you’re entitled, as the president, to your own airplane and to your own house, but not to your own facts — (laughter) — all right? I’m — I’m not going to cut education funding. I don’t have any plan to cut education funding and grants that go to people going to college. I’m planning on continuing to grow, so I’m not planning on making changes there.”
—————————
That seemed a pretty stark difference: Obama claiming Romney will cut education by 20 percent; Romney claiming that he has no plans to cut education and in fact would continue to expand eduction spending. That exchange helped to set the tone of the evening and was one of the more specific areas in which the new, more moderate Romney — Romney 6.4 you might say — had emerged.
So I thought I’d start digging a little to get at the truth: Which man was correct. To start, I turned to Mitt Romney’s website, in which he outlines in broad detail his plans to cut federal spending. There we find two steps , published below in bold, that Romney promises to implement immediately upon taking office:
“– Send Congress a bill on Day One that cuts non-security discretionary spending by 5 percent across the board.” (Education is considered non-security discretionary spending. If we take him at his word, this is a Romney promise to immediately slash education spending across the board by 5 percent.)
– “Pass the House Republican Budget proposal, rolling back President Obama’s government expansion by capping non-security discretionary spending below 2008 levels.” (Rolling back non-security discretionary spending to the level of five years earlier would require significant cuts in education. And rather than exempt education from such cuts, House Republicans appear to target that area, particularly “education funding and grants that go to people going to college,” as Romney put it.)
We can, if you wish, give Romney the benefit of the doubt here. For now, let’s leave open the possibility that he disagrees with the House Republicans on this one issue. What does he himself have to say about education spending in general and college tuition-assistance in particular?
Let’s turn here to the 34-page “white paper” on education put out by the Romney campaign, titled “A Chance for Every Child”. And what do we find?
“Unfortunately, like a man with a hammer that sees every problem as a nail, President Obama’s policy response to every education challenge has been more federal spending. Increased spending on our K-12 public schools has failed to produce results, and increased spending is already one of higher education’s greatest problems….
Unlike President Obama, Mitt Romney understands that more spending is the last thing our schools need.”
Hmmm. “… increased (federal) spending is already one of higher education’s greatest problems”?
That doesn’t sound like a man committed to preserving let alone expanding spending in that area, now does it? Now let’s bring the focus in tighter still, to those “grants that go to people going to college” that Romney specifically referenced. Those would be Pell grants, a government program for which I have a particular fondness.
Back in my own college days, I was a poor, lazy member of the “47 percent” working nights and weekends and summer jobs to put myself through school because my parents lacked the resources to contribute much. To finance my education, I leaned heavily on what were known at the time as Basic Educational Opportunity Grants. Without them, I’m not sure I would have made it.
Today, most Pell grants go to students with a family income of $30,000 or less, which isn’t much. These are people for whom upward mobility is a real struggle. The maximum annual grant amount of $5,550 isn’t much either, but for those who receive it, I know from personal experience that it is essential. And what does Romney have to say about the Pell grant program in his white paper?
“… as a result of the expanding entitlement mentality, the Pell Grant program — the foundation of the federal investment in student financial aid — is on unsure financial footing. To keep up with the program’s massive increases, the government has been forced to take steps such as eliminating subsidized loans for graduate students. A Romney Administration will refocus Pell Grant dollars on the students that need them most and place the program on a responsible long-term path that avoids future funding cliffs and last-minute funding patches.”
Somehow, linking a program to “the entitlement mentality” and suggesting it has been overfunded does not sound particularly promising, now does it? It’s a linkage the paper makes not once but twice, arguing elsewhere that “America is fast becoming a society where … a government loan is an entitlement.” That’s GOP-speak for placement on the endangered list.
Now, what about actual numbers? As a policy statement, the education white paper contains no specific data about education spending levels, but do we have other ways of estimating what Romney has in mind?
Yes, we do. In documents focusing on spending, Romney has set certain overall budget-cutting goals as well as goals for discretionary, non-defense spending, which again is the category that includes k-12 education as well as higher ed. Assuming that Medicare is exempted from future spending cuts, as Romney seemed to indicate in the debate, spending on discretionary, non-defense spending would have to be slashed to 1.3 percent of GDP by 2022 to meet his targets.
I used the word “slashed” above. Is that justified by the extent of the cuts proposed? Yes, it is justified and then some.
As the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities notes, “spending for this category has averaged 3.9 percent of GDP over the past 50 years and has never fallen below 3.2 percent of GDP during this period.” So cutting it to 1.3 percent of GDP, as promised by Romney, would require a deep, deep slash.
In fact, assuming that Medicare, Social Security and defense are exempt from cuts, spending in non-defense discretionary programs would have to be cut by 32 percent by 2016 and 53 percent by 2022 to meet his goals.
And yes, you could argue theoretically that education might made be exempt from such cuts under Romney. Theoretically, that could be true. However, when you consider that other programs in that category include veterans health care, air traffic controllers, the FBI, highway and transit construction etc., exempting education from 50 percent cuts just isn’t likely.
Budget discussions are supposedly all about the bottom line. And here’s the bottom line in this particular discussion:
You cannot simultaneously be the genial, friendly, moderate Mitt Romney on the stage in Denver who claims that he has no intention of cutting education spending, but in fact plans to increase it, while also demanding credit as the severely conservative Mitt Romney out to wean America of that “entitlement mentality” by slashing social spending, including education, to the bone.
It doesn’t — or shouldn’t — work like that.
– Jay Bookman
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385 comments Add your comment
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:37 am
I saw the headline and thought “great, a chance for Republicans to explain their candidate.” But, as happened when changes were noted on yesterday’s thread, there was no explanation. Just ignoring, deflection, denial and silence. There was the exchange last evening with Sinkwich which went pretty much “I didn’t hear that. Get your ears checked.” Followed by a quote from the debate transcript. Followed by Sinkwich going stone silent.
Now we have Bud Wiser with what has to be the classic response to Romney’s new policy of spending on education: “You dems always think throwing money at problems will solve them; well, how’s it working for you so far?”
The farfarRight hear Romney’s latest reinvention and the response is to lash out at failed Democratic policies and blame the media. It’s morbidly sad, really.
But I do have to observe: Team Romney gave advance notice of what they’d do. They took plenty of ridicule over the Etch-a-Sketch comment. So what happened? Out walks Romney on stage, shakes his Etch-a-Sketch (control yourself, USinUK…..) and a disbelieving Pres Obama looks at hims and thinks “he did it… he actually did it right during the debate…. and he thinks he can get away with it and the Republicans who would’ve thrown him out of the primaries in week one if he’d said that will let it go and cheer him on….”
In this instance, actions do speak louder than words.
Jeff H
October 5th, 2012
7:38 am
Jay – the real question is where is the President taking the country? Every single economic expert is clear – we are heading toward a financial cliff. Effective leaders do not blame others. They own the problem and fix it. The results are clearly in. Things have gotten worse under Presidnt Obama and he simply has not shown any signs that four more years will produce different results. Need I remind you that he himself said that he shouldn’t deserve a second-term if that we’re the case.
Jm
October 5th, 2012
7:39 am
Jay is a good soldier in the political war, fighting as hard as he can for democrats
But there’s no need to lie Jay
mike
October 5th, 2012
7:40 am
I will vote for the candidate who says we have to make cuts to survive because that is probably the fiscal reality. We need to face the truth.
Madmax
October 5th, 2012
7:40 am
Jay,
Are you saying that every penny of the $70 billion they spend is spent wisely? Are you saying there are no ineffectual programs? Are you saying that there is no fat in the Ed budget? Are you saying that everything the Ed does should be done at the Federal level? Are we getting a good return for that money ($220/person or $615/taxpayer).in light of the fact that we are now at $16,149,000,000,000 in debt as of this morning. Seems like we were just crossing into the 16 trillion level last month. reminds me of an old song, “where has all the money gone, Down bad programs every last dollar”
alex
October 5th, 2012
7:41 am
@jay, the 2nd post is a strong indication of your syncophathic supporters…
OK let’s parse the obama 4 million new jobs, yes but 5 million lost….
you pick one statement in 90 minute debate,
they BOTH make incorrect or misleading statements, NO kidding;”read my LIPS”
:..,YADA…
Jay, I’m glad you worked hard and took out grants for an education,so did I, the difference is I’m still working and you, you’re playing….and whining about it ,like most of your readers…
Aquagirl
October 5th, 2012
7:41 am
Jay – the real question is where is the President taking the country?
Of course that’s the real question. Because you, like everyone else, can’t answer Jay’s inquiry.
Thanks for playing!
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:42 am
Oedipus Tax
“If Jay Bookman was interested in the truth, and not spreading lies and his distortions, might he portray our President as betraying his word by running for a second term?”
in regards to
” If I don’t get this done in three years then there’s gonna be a one-term proposition.”
Ummm…. you do know the difference between a ‘proposition’ and a ‘promise’, don’t you?
Because it reads like you do not.
Hint: they are not synonyms.
Butch Cassidy (I)
October 5th, 2012
7:43 am
Jeff H – “Things have gotten worse under Presidnt Obama and he simply has not shown any signs that four more years will produce different results.”
Uh oh, you better not look at this. Seeing the numbers could cause you to run screaming into the night. http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Ol' Timer
October 5th, 2012
7:43 am
During the debate I felt like I was watching a re-run of To Tell The Truth and expected the moderator to say at the end, “Would the real Mitt Romney please stand up!”
Mitt Romney incarnated the saying of Mark Twain, “Get all the facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”
alex
October 5th, 2012
7:44 am
Oh, forgot,the APS, Clayton co. public schools are wonderful examples of our tax money being spent wisely…Sheeesh, pathetic
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 5th, 2012
7:44 am
No matter the government-school brain-washing, the majority of Americans go to college on their own.
Morals still exist and the decent people do not want stolen money to finance their individual goals and aspirations.
.
I’m glad Bookman got a decent education on my dime.
I……on the other hand ……had to pay inflated college costs.
\.
But I sleep well at night.
AU Liberal in ATL
October 5th, 2012
7:44 am
It would take too much time and space to list Romney’s lies, so here’s a list of his truthful utterances.
1. I have five boys.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 5th, 2012
7:45 am
“During the debate I felt like I was watching a re-run of To Tell The Truth and expected the moderator to say at the end, “Would the real Mitt Romney please stand up!””
ahhhhh … a blast from the past …
AU Liberal in ATL
October 5th, 2012
7:46 am
You’re a liar too, Heyward Jr. If you were really happy that Jay got a decent education “on your dime”, you wouldn’t be complaining about it.
Madmax
October 5th, 2012
7:46 am
USink – and how many of those Republicans voted for the final product? And why was it not sent back fo congress for resolution? Sorry I do know how Congress works and you get support before you put the bill to a vote.
Tom Middleton
October 5th, 2012
7:47 am
AU Liberal in ATL
2. That also lie.
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:48 am
“No matter the government-school brain-washing, the majority of Americans go to college on their own.”
Proving, yet again, that it’s been five o’clock somewhere for a long, long time.
Thug
October 5th, 2012
7:49 am
Isn’t it usually Lefty that defends lying…’bama said
he was going to half the deficit in first term and hasn’t even produced a budget…and the Laser -like focus on jobs? ‘bama and you JB in the mindf*ck media are the real culprits of the lie.
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:49 am
Heyward Jr.
“I……on the other hand ……had to pay inflated college costs.”
Since you brought it up, you’re saying you went to a private college/university?
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 5th, 2012
7:50 am
AU Liberal in ATL
October 5th, 2012
7:46 am
You’re a liar too, Heyward Jr. If you were really happy that Jay got a decent education “on your dime”, you wouldn’t be complaining about it.
————————————————————————————–
.
You might have a point……………….but for sarcasm.
the cat
October 5th, 2012
7:50 am
Rumor on the street is there are more than five Romney children, one is institutionalized and kept hidden. So Mitt can’t even tell the truth about how many kids he has.
Jm
October 5th, 2012
7:50 am
This is a long series of inferences
All of them wrong
Madmax
October 5th, 2012
7:52 am
AU liberal in ATL – Based on some of the stuff Jay puts out here, I’m not so sure about that “decent” education. He definitely got brainwashed by the leftist thinking academia who can think of trillions of ways to spend other peoples money.
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:52 am
This is neat. Jay posts “Do they argue that Romney really WILL cut education, and thus prove that he and they are honest about cutting the budget? Or do they argue that Romney really WON’T cut education, and by doing so endorse the RINO position?
They’re trapped in a snare of their own setting.”
and the cons on before that post drop out of sight (except for Jm, but he doesn’t address posts anyway) and about the only cons we have after are the ones who jump right, obviously without reading anything before they click on ‘add your comment.”
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 5th, 2012
7:53 am
“and how many of those Republicans voted for the final product? ”
oh, but you ARE funny.
As far as republicans not being invited:
June 17, 2009 Three Democratic and three Republican Finance Committee Members hold the first of 31 bipartisan meetings to discuss the development of a health care reform bill. Over the course of the next three months, this group, Baucus, Grassley, Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.), and Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.), met for more than 60 hours and the bipartisan principles they discussed became the foundation of the health care reform law.
June 18, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
June 23, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
June 24, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
June 25, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 7, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 8, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 9, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 15, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 16, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 20, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 21, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 22, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 23, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 27, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 28, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 29, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
July 30, 2009 Two bipartisan meetings to discuss health care reform.
Aug. 3, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Aug. 4, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Aug. 5, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Aug. 6, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Aug. 6, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Aug. 20, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Sept. 4, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Sept. 8, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Sept. 9, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Sept. 10, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Sept. 11, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
Sept. 14, 2009 Bipartisan meeting to discuss health care reform.
http://www.finance.senate.gov/issue/?id=32be19bd-491e-4192-812f-f65215c1ba65
so, do you STILL Want to say that the goppers weren’t invited to play in the sandbox???
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 5th, 2012
7:54 am
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:49 am
Heyward Jr.
“I……on the other hand ……had to pay inflated college costs.”
Since you brought it up, you’re saying you went to a private college/university?
—————————————————————————————————————
.
Actually yes…………I did.
Mostly.
I was forced, by circumstances….to take a few State University Classes.
and i paid for them.
I didn’t even do the GI Bill.
.
It’s called principles….son.
The State degrades all morals..for those who have intercourse with it.
Misty Fyed
October 5th, 2012
7:54 am
Obama said he’d cut the deficit in half…..he lied…
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:54 am
Jm
“This is a long series of inferences. All of them wrong.”
This should be easy for you to answer: where is the inference in ” I’m — I’m not going to cut education funding. I don’t have any plan to cut education funding and grants that go to people going to college. I’m planning on continuing to grow, so I’m not planning on making changes there.”
And why is Romney wrong about saying that?
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
7:56 am
“Romney lied”
WHAT!?!?!?! I’m Shocked!
Aquagirl
October 5th, 2012
7:56 am
This is a long series of inferences
All of them wrong
And what exactly do you infer from “Mitt Romney understands that more spending is the last thing our schools need?”
That Mitt understands we need to spend less but that he’ll spend more?
Mick
October 5th, 2012
7:56 am
jm
Where does the cheerleading stop and the truth begin? You have no credibility because clearly, romney lied through his teeth on multiple answers. You know it, romney knows it, and now he has to deal with it. Your vaunted independents are probably a bit creeped out by the man who will say anything and mean nothing…
Paul
October 5th, 2012
7:59 am
Heyward
It may seem like getting down in the weeds to you, but you do see the difference between attending a private college with no support from public funds (even though many private colleges keep direct costs low for students thru endowments, thus having other people pay costs that tuition doesn’t cover) and attending a state university, where public funds are directly allocated to subsidize student costs, don’t you?
So it’s really more accurate to say “I paid all the unsubsidized expenses of my secondary education thru my own or my family means”, isn’t it?
It’s all well and good to say you paid the bill without federal or state direct assistance, but that does ignore the indirect assistance state and private schools receive, doesn’t it?
A Simple Man
October 5th, 2012
7:59 am
It’s not a lie until it happens. If I say that “I will mow the grass on Sunday” is not a lie until I don’t mow on Sunday. What if Romney does exactly what he says he will do? You may not believe he can, and you may not even want him to do what he says. But what if he does it? Will people starting writing in apologies? Doubt it.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 5th, 2012
8:01 am
“Actually yes…………I did.
Mostly.
I was forced, by circumstances….to take a few State University Classes.”
sounds like someone went to an unaccredited university.
you know what they say about fools and their money.
A Simple Man
October 5th, 2012
8:01 am
Oh, and US in UK, haven’t forgotten about you. It seems your position is that the government is spending less now and the debt is lower now than when Obama took office. Not much we can discuss/debate on that. The numbers are what they are and you either believe them or not.
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:01 am
What if Romney does exactly what he says he will do?
Ahhh, but which Romney are we talking about?
To use your example, is it the Romney who says “I will mow the grass on Sunday” or the one who says “I will NOT mow the grass on Sunday.”
southpaw
October 5th, 2012
8:02 am
“I dunno – his “deep political beliefs” are like a newborn’s diaps – changed frequently”
and for the same reason
————————————–
Twain’s suggestion was to change politicians, not beliefs, for that reason.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
October 5th, 2012
8:02 am
” If I say that “I will mow the grass on Sunday” is not a lie until I don’t mow on Sunday.”
and if it rains on Sunday and you can’t mow the grass, it still isn’t a lie -
TaxPayer
October 5th, 2012
8:02 am
Republicans just luvs themselves more of the Mitt because he can change so readily on-the-fly to meet the changing environment. Mitt’s a chameleon.
It’s his karma.
Mick
October 5th, 2012
8:02 am
simple man
You can’t change on a dime after months of policy speeches, how convenient to do a u-turn one month before the election when you’re sinking in the polls…
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
8:03 am
“What if Romney does exactly what he says he will do?”
The problem is that Romney flip flopped so much we don’t know what to believe.
the cat
October 5th, 2012
8:03 am
I’m thinking heyward went to Liberty U.
Ken
October 5th, 2012
8:03 am
The American people, however, do not forget that fact. Their memories are not that short, and they recognize that what Obama faced upon taking office in 2009 was nothing like what the world looked like during the campaign.
That’s funny Jay.
JamVet
October 5th, 2012
8:03 am
Mitt 6.4.
Hysterical! (I think he has been battling a lot of malware!)
Our cons are constipated, confused, highly angered and tired of getting their arses kicked.
Man, am I enjoy these daily meltdowns, and they only portend even bigger ones between now and November 6…
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 5th, 2012
8:04 am
Paul
.
It’s all well and good to say you paid the bill without federal or state direct assistance, but that does ignore the indirect assistance state and private schools receive, doesn’t it?
.
———————————————————————————————————-
It doesn’t ignore it.
.
Tell me where I had a choice?
When i go to a doctor to save my life………..and that doctor takes medicaid for payment from other people……………am I “living off someone else’s dime”.
.
You.like most progs……confuse choice with coercion.
The state has degraded your morals.
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
8:04 am
Mick
October 5th, 2012
8:02 am
Mitt’s just using the etch-a-sketch.
Doggone/GA
October 5th, 2012
8:06 am
“What if Romney does exactly what he says he will do? ”
But what EXACTLY does he SAY he will do? Cut or not cut. Seems like he’s setting you up so that no mattter what he does he “did what he said he would do”
flagboy?
October 5th, 2012
8:07 am
Butch Cassidy (I)
October 5th, 2012
7:36 am
It’s always fun to watch the party faithful debate which candidate is a better liar.
______________
agreed.
Verbal Kint
October 5th, 2012
8:08 am
I see Jay has taken his orders from Axelrod and Cutter like a good soldier and delivered.
Peadawg
October 5th, 2012
8:10 am
“It’s always fun to watch the party faithful debate which candidate is a better liar.”
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:11 am
“I see Jay has taken his orders from Axelrod and Cutter like a good soldier and delivered.”
When you are incapable of debating an issue on its merits, this is the fallback position. And it is a fallback position that is used a LOT.
TiredOfIt
October 5th, 2012
8:11 am
Mitt Romney is a multiple choice kinda guy in that you never no which answer you’re going to get.
East Lake Ira
October 5th, 2012
8:12 am
Romney lies with ease, as I’ve said time and time again.
You all saw it very clearly in teh “debate” and you’ll see it more and more as the election date nears.
Romney is a liar, an empty suit with nice hair.
And also too, Ryan.
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:12 am
Thomas Heyward Jr.
My point wasn’t about the choice or the circumstances.
It gets back to the point Pres Obama made and others twisted when he spoke of the successful business person:
” There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. ”
As admirable as self-reliance is, I think it also admirable to acknowledge with some humility that many of one’s seemingly singular, personal accomplishments, be they attending university or some other endeavor, do owe some measure of credit to others who helped make one’s accomplishments possible.
DannyX
October 5th, 2012
8:12 am
“just completely wrong.”
Are all you Romney fans around here that were defending him for his 47% comments now going to admit he was wrong?
Or are you going to blast Romney for his latest flip flop? Which one is it Romney fans?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:12 am
JAY,
I think we’ve pretty much established that they all lie….compared to the whoppers BO has told since 2008 that have been validated as lies versus those charged against Romney based on a plan that is not likely to either be passed by congress in its current state or even submitted as is..I submit these are “prospective lies”…You are calling him a liar based on things that haven’t happened yet..
We have evidence of bona fide lies by President Trillions regarding lobbyists, the cost of ACA, cutting the deficit, improving our reputation overseas…and the list goes on and on..
I won’t defend Romney has he, like BO will say anything to get elected.
BTW, what excuse does the group here believe is most responsible for BO’s embarasssing showing: Is it the air in Denver, a brilliant strategy to rope-a-dope Romney and sneak up on him in next debate…or is it just a smarmy competitor (surprise surprise) like BO was in 2008?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 5th, 2012
8:12 am
Another hack job post from jay, not factual in any way
That’s some deep, factual stuff there, jm, keep up the great counter analysis!
Jm
October 5th, 2012
8:13 am
I think Jay took a laxative and a sleeping pill last night
And that’s never a good idea
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 5th, 2012
8:14 am
Verbal Kint
October 5th, 2012
8:08 am
I see Jay has taken his orders from Axelrod and Cutter like a good soldier and delivered.
.
.
.
.
I guess John Sununu made you say that.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:14 am
News flash!
During practice sessions for the next debate, Team Obama is having John Kerry — their Romney stand-in — debate Obama while dressed as a French prostitute, an Italian mobster, and as Santa Claus, just so that Obama gets comfortable with whichever Romney-bot shows up on stage with him.
DownInAlbany
October 5th, 2012
8:14 am
This is typical Bookman. Obama’s record is so dismal that he again attacks Romney (and laughably blames Bush!). Unfortunately he has been in charge for the last 4 years. It’s his economy, now. He owns it. The fact is Washington DC is broken and Obama is part of the problem, not the solution. Are you better off now than 4 years ago?
Jm
October 5th, 2012
8:15 am
Jay
October 5th, 2012
6:52 am
Was he lying then or is he lying now?
Yes.
LinkReport this comment
- the answer of a blind partisan
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:15 am
Is it flip-flopping if you admit you were wrong? I thought that’s what we would want a leader to do. To admit his comments were wrong if they are in fact wrong.
Doggone/GA
October 5th, 2012
8:16 am
“When you are incapable of debating an issue on its merits, this is the fallback position. And it is a fallback position that is used a LOT”
Heck, they’re just practicing their zingers…just like their fearless leader!
Citizen of the World
October 5th, 2012
8:16 am
Romney has been called an empty suit. I think we can now call him a sheep suit.
Jm
October 5th, 2012
8:16 am
Jay is the worst fact checker, possibly of all time
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:16 am
Is it flip-flopping if you admit you were wrong? I thought that’s what we would want a leader to do. To admit his comments were wrong if they are in fact wrong.
How many times is he allowed to be wrong during the campaign before you admit that he’s got the political instincts of a gekko?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 5th, 2012
8:16 am
I think Jay took a laxative and a sleeping pill last night
What keen analytical insight! AMAZING
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:17 am
BTW,
Can anyone offer data that correlates improved test scores or graduation rates to increased spending per kid? I don’t think we should cut costs, but it is silly that every single president since who knows when has a plan to improve education…
All we have is a great body of evidence suggesting is has virtually zero impact at best…have to get more creative since the masses think a correlation exists..
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:17 am
Jay is the worst fact checker, possibly of all time
Attack the writer, but no facts presented. Typical of you, Jm. DO BETTER.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 5th, 2012
8:17 am
Down In ALbany
Are you better off now than 4 years ago?
.
.
.
.
Substantially.
I can spare a some $$$$ if you need it, we could take up a collection if food and shelter are a problem for you.
DannyX
October 5th, 2012
8:18 am
“Are you better off now than 4 years ago?”
Hell NO. I miss the good ol’ days of real estate collapse, 700,000 a month job losses, and stock market crash.
Good times, good times.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:18 am
I don’t think we should cut costs, but it is silly that every single president since who knows when has a plan to improve education…
Not the point. You looked at a tree and missed the forest around it.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 5th, 2012
8:18 am
Are you better off now than 4 years ago?
Immensely so.
This sucker coulda gone down, ya know?
JKL2
October 5th, 2012
8:18 am
Jay- President Obama’s policy response to every education challenge has been more federal spending. Increased spending on our K-12 public schools has failed to produce results
Let’s continually increase spending and expect/get nothing in return. obama is a flippin’ genius.
obama: No problem I can’t fix by throwing the checkbook at it. Free money for everyone!
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:19 am
DANNYX,
Lest ye forget that BO has, particularly in macro issues, a poor record of keeping his promises…why should the Ken Doll be any different?
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:19 am
Jay- President Obama’s policy response to every education challenge has been more federal spending. Increased spending on our K-12 public schools has failed to produce results
Again, focusing on the tree. Missing the forest around it entirely.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 5th, 2012
8:20 am
why should the Ken Doll be any different?
yeah, let’s not expect too much from these guys….
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 5th, 2012
8:20 am
Paul——
“As admirable as self-reliance is, I think it also admirable to acknowledge with some humility that many of one’s seemingly singular, personal accomplishments, be they attending university or some other endeavor, do owe some measure of credit to others who helped make one’s accomplishments possible.”
.
——————————————————————————————————————–
.
Exactly…………………………………………………but……………………………………………………….
NOT compelled to do so……………… at the business end of a gun.
.
Soviet/Progressive logic———–” I am an ingrate in that I do not appreciate the cheap price of sugar that I use ………eventhough I have no choice and that millions of people live in abject poverty because of the state’s subsidized agricultural “gift” to us citizens.”
.
It works the same way with everything else.
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:20 am
Byteme,
I apply that same logic to Obama. How many times has he outright lied as well and I don’t hear you hammering on him.
Goes back to my basic thoughts on all this. Everybody left or right is a sheep. If your guy/gal is running then they can do no wrong. You all just talk about how great they are.
Where’s your honest assessment of Obama and the job he’s done? I’m not voting for either guy because of this very reason. I’m expecting one party or the other (and their followers) to actually demand better of their own. Quit pointing the finger at the other guy when yours is just as bad.
Jay
October 5th, 2012
8:21 am
“Can anyone offer data that correlates improved test scores or graduation rates to increased spending per kid?
I don’t know, but I’m guessing they charge $22K a year at Woodward Academy for a reason. THEY certainly think spending matters.
Keep Up the Good Fight! (and only seeing conned poutrage)
October 5th, 2012
8:21 am
Did I miss the posts of apologies from the conned who told us over and over again how Mitt was right on the 47%.
The October Surprise: Mitt does his etch-a-sketch flip.
America is not that gullible.
jconservative
October 5th, 2012
8:21 am
“Basically, Romney is acknowledging that a conservative Republican cannot be elected…”
Goodman is correct on this one guys. We have not had a conservative president in almost 90 years and we will not have one in 2013.
Simply put, the former liberal Republican governor of Massachusetts is coming home to roost.
With a Democratic Senate protecting his back a President Romney will not be much different than the last dozen or so presidents.
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:22 am
Stevie Ray
“Can anyone offer data that correlates improved test scores or graduation rates to increased spending per kid? I don’t think we should cut costs, but it is silly that every single president since who knows when has a plan to improve education…”
Right here in Texas, with its “Robin Hood, spread the wealth” rules where there’s an attempt to equalize funding between wealthy and poor districts.
It’s what led to the legislation in the first place. In Republican dominated, conservative Texas. Even here it was recognized there was a direct link between increasing funding and improving student performance.
I think what you may be getting at is, is there a point of diminishing returns?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 5th, 2012
8:22 am
Down In ALbany
Seriously…does your family need help?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:22 am
BYEME,
I am missing no point whatsoever…just because I don’t see value in debating whether a politician is lying doesn’t barr and reasonable discussion about the value of all the failed (and what will continue to fail) efforts to throw more money at this issue….we don’t know for sure if Romney will cut education….he is not betrothen to any current plan…
Politicians lying or arguing who lies more than the other is a rather unprofitable, time wasting endeavor..
DannyX
October 5th, 2012
8:22 am
“obama: No problem I can’t fix by throwing the checkbook at it. Free money for everyone!”
Obama?? Seems to me he had help. Our Republican governor, Nathan Deal, said during his campaign that he would not accept Race to the Top funds. What was one of the first things Deal did as governor? Gobbled down almost a half billion in Race to the Top funds.
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:23 am
I don’t know, but I’m guessing they charge $22K a year at Woodward Academy for a reason. THEY certainly think spending matters.
So does only signing up those students you want and tossing back into the cesspool those students who can’t cut it.
Citizen of the World
October 5th, 2012
8:23 am
Whatever @ 8:15, yes, I think leaders (and followers) should be able to admit they were wrong and change their mind. But this change of mind should be the result of having learned something new or because a situation has changed, not for pure political expediency, as seems to be the case with Romney’s reversal on the 47 percent. That’s a flip-flop.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:24 am
JAY,
Stick to the script…can you offer me proof that taxpayers throwing more money at education is a successful strategy?
Paul
October 5th, 2012
8:24 am
Thomas Heyward
No one is compelled to apply for or use a Pell Grant or any other type of grant. Or subsidized student housing. Or any one of many other examples.
Whatever
October 5th, 2012
8:24 am
Jay,
That Woodward logic is very flawed. I know homeschoolers that pay $1,000/kid/year and got into Harvard.
Culture and parental involvement are way more important than funds.
Child, please
October 5th, 2012
8:24 am
What has 33 years of massive spending (thank you President Carter for creating that bureaucracy) at the federal level done for the education in this country? Squat. Versus being a perennial education power on the international level, our K-12 kids score about 20th to 25th, etc. in world rankings. So can easily argue that the entire departerment and the trillions that have been spent on it since 1979 are A TOTAL WASTE (keeping in sync with much other government spending). 5% isn’t nearly enough to cut. Add a zero after it and it is a good start
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:25 am
How many times has he outright lied as well and I don’t hear you hammering on him.
So why not point out for us the specific instances where he said one thing and did the exact opposite. Not those things he said he’d try to do and had Congress block it. But those things he said he’d do one thing and did the exact opposite. Like saying he would never cut education spending, but then having documents on his web site outlining a dramatic cut in education spending. Something like that. Go for it.
killerj
October 5th, 2012
8:26 am
Sorry Jay,I still will go with someone who has a chance to fail than someone who has failed miserably any day.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 5th, 2012
8:26 am
Paul,
I’d be interested in some data suggesting in Texas that scores and graduation rates improved by throwing more money at the problem…this would represent an anomoly..a statistical faux pas..
Ivan
October 5th, 2012
8:26 am
“But this change of mind should be the result of having learned something new or because a situation has changed, not for pure political expediency,”
Sort of like all the Democrats that supported troops in Iraq. Before they were against it.
b-troll
October 5th, 2012
8:26 am
“And what exactly do you infer from “Mitt Romney understands that more spending is the last thing our schools need?” ”
i infer that he will not INCREASE spending on education, duh
reading and listening are elemental
ByteMe - Thugs vs. Ilk... in 3D!
October 5th, 2012
8:26 am
Culture and parental involvement are way more important than funds.
Indeed this is true. So, absent sending the police to enforce a good home environment, what do you propose we do to break the cycle? Cut funds for education and meals at school? Or do you think creating a permanent underclass is in our country’s best interest?