Sanctions drive Iranian currency down 25-40% in a week
Are tightened international sanctions against Iran working?
As the BBC reports:
In the past seven days, Iran’s rial has has lost 25% of its value; it is now, at best, worth only a quarter of what it was 18 months ago. And the freefall seems to have no end in sight.
Recent days in Iran have seen runs on foreign currencies and on gold – assets that are easily liquefied in the domestic market or transferable overseas.
On the one hand Iranians have lost their trust in their government’s grip over the economy, and on the other they fear their country may end up in a military confrontation with Israel over its nuclear programme.
Therefore, they have good reason to change whatever they have in hand into currencies whose value is sustained internationally, or into gold bullion which they can throw into a suitcase if they want to hop aboard a flight and leave the country.
On Tuesday morning the window of licensed exchange bureaux showed rates never seen before: every US dollar bought 35,000 rials; currently the lowest valued currency per unit in the world.
Other estimates have put the decline at closer to 40 percent in a week. Prices for basic food items — many of them imported — have soared in response, and a petition signed by 10,000 Iranian factory workers complaining about the conditions has been delivered to the Labor Ministry. Iranian leaders this week also tried to ban access to Google and Gmail before backing off the effort as hopeless. And in Israel, Haaretz reports that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is being set up by his rivals as the fall guy for the economic crisis.
Iran’s currency is collapsing because its oil industry is also collapsing; recent estimates are that oil production has fallen by as much as half because under sanctions, the Iranians simply can’t find customers who are willing to buy their product. Those dwindling few that want to buy Iranian oil often find themselves unable to pay for it, thanks to strict banking sanctions. In July, for example, President Obama approved new sanctions on any financial institution in the world that helps to facilitate the purchase of Iranian oil.
Israeli officials also seem to have recommitted themselves to seeing the sanctions option through to its ultimate outcome, whatever that may be”
JERUSALEM — Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, plans to travel to Europe before the end of the year, among other things to press for a toughening of sanctions against Tehran, Israeli officials said on Tuesday. The plans appeared to be another indication of a shifting Israeli emphasis, at least for now, toward efforts to stop the Iranian nuclear program by means other than military action….
The growing Israeli focus on a new round of sanctions comes amid reports of the deep impact that current sanctions are having on the Iranian economy. A recent internal report prepared by the Israeli Foreign Ministry stated that the sanctions may, according to some assessments, also be affecting the stability of the Iranian government, which insists that its nuclear program is for purely peaceful purposes.”
– Jay Bookman
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302 comments Add your comment
St Simons
October 2nd, 2012
2:43 pm
-25-40% – now that’s rial money
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
2:43 pm
JamVet, could you please post a link to your 2:38?
Rightwing Troll
October 2nd, 2012
2:44 pm
“can you admit that democrats do the same?”
Yes.
Next…
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
2:45 pm
marisol
so how many brothers have died while the democrats controlled congress from 2007-2010 and the white house from 2009 – 2012?
arent you glad obama has CUT defense spending while in office? wait he hasn’t……….. thats odd……..
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 2nd, 2012
2:45 pm
“Almost 2,400 Millionaires Pocketed Unemployment Benefits.” …”Eliminating the federal share of unemployment benefits for millionaires would save $20 million in the next decade, the congressional researchers said in their report.”20 million in a decade! That’s two whole million dollars a year. Or about .0002 percent of a 1.1 trillion deficit.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-02/almost-2-400-millionaires-pocketed-unemployment-benefits.html
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
-25-40% – now that’s rial money
LOL
Mick
October 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
**khomeni came to power because the Shah tried to both modernize and westernize a population that did not want that at the time**
Incorrect…khomeni came to power because the iranians were pissed off that the cia installed the shah to power in the 50’s. Furthermore, they were really pissed off about the shah’s secret police and their brutality. All this was the result of the blowback from us meddling in their internal affairs. We are not the masters of the universe…
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
2:48 pm
20 million in a decade! That’s two whole million dollars a year. Or about .0002 percent of a 1.1 trillion deficit.”
I’m with you, Finn – unless it wipes out the entire deficit at once, it’s not even woth considering!
So, what’s the plan?
mm
October 2nd, 2012
2:48 pm
“Wonder how long after the election wil it take BO to come out of the closet and admit he’s a muslim?”
About the same amount of time it will take for you and you ilk to admit you are morons.
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
2:50 pm
Fred – “wahsdarb .tL”
Or occocor ykcor! LOL
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
2:54 pm
nice try mick
but step out of the noam chomsky closet
The revolution was unusual for the surprise it created throughout the world:[16] it lacked many of the customary causes of revolution (defeat at war, a financial crisis, peasant rebellion, or disgruntled military),[17] produced profound change at great speed,[18] was massively popular,[19] and replaced a westernising monarchy with a theocracy based on Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists (or velayat-e faqih). Its outcome—an Islamic Republic “under the guidance of an extraordinary religious scholar from Qom”—was, as one scholar put it, “clearly an occurrence that had to be explained”.[20]
Brosephus™
October 2nd, 2012
2:56 pm
Finn
Did you see the seismic goalpost shift in that article you linked???
You start with a headline that reads:
“Almost 2,400 Millionaires Pocketed Unemployment Benefits”
Then, you go to the very first sentence, and they’ve already got their slot receiver in motion.
“Almost 2,400 people who received unemployment insurance in 2009 lived in households with annual incomes of $1 million or more, according to the Congressional Research Service.”
By the time you get to the 5th paragraph, they called an audible, switched the play completely, and then sent the running back in motion and completely emptied the backfield.
“The reported benefits may include those received by spouses or dependents of people who made high incomes, or benefits received earlier in the year before a household member got a high-paying job.”
I love how these articles use misleading headlines to drive an ideological message, even when their story doesn’t match what they’re trying to peddle. I bet you’ll hear people regurgitating that headline until the cows come home.
Mary Elizabeth
October 2nd, 2012
2:56 pm
The leveling of economic sanctions is a nonviolent approach to solving world problems. It serves two positive outcomes. One, world leaders join together as one in defining their goals and priorities, and two, they learn to trust solving mutual problems through the relatively nonviolent means of economic sanctions.
I am reminded of MLK’s nonviolent approaches to changing consciousness and solving social problems through nonviolent tactics. The economic boycott he led in the Montgomery Bus Boycott of 1955 comes quickly to mind, as an analogy to learn from today – in buidling global consciousness and in solving global problems – in its social and economic effectiveness.
Americans have a clear choice betweem our two presidential candidates in their separate world visions, as reflected in their differing parties’ perceptions, as to how to solve world problems. Romney’s is the vision of the dominant America that leads by intimidation. Obama’s is the vision of world partnership that leads, as much as possible, through relatively nonviolent, economic sanctions.
Obama’s approach models to some degree MLK’s vision and, thus, his is a more spiritually sound approach than one of intimidation. As a result, it will have a more lasting effectiveness.
weetamoe
October 2nd, 2012
2:57 pm
Iraq: bombings almost daily during Clinton administration.. Children starving to death until oil for food program presented a little relief–until Kofi and Koko Annan perfected scheme to siphon kids’ food money into their own accounts. After 17 UN resolutions, US elevated conflict to ground war–under UN mandate. Almost all democrats (exception Obama, whose own Afghan war is going just splendidly) voted in favor of ground war (having shared intelligence briefings with Bush admin).
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
2:58 pm
JHM, my bad, I meant to include it, just because I love knowing that the con’s heads explode when the info is directly from the most popular right wing web site on the Innertubes…
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/GOP-Romney-Worries/2012/10/02/id/458411
tm
October 2nd, 2012
3:02 pm
You state the sanctions have been successful. Successful in what? Has there been a change in leadership? Have they backed down and let inspectors back in the country? Have they stopped threatening to destroy other countries? What positive results have come from the sanctions?
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
3:02 pm
Almost all democrats (exception Obama, whose own Afghan war is going just splendidly) voted in favor of ground war (having shared intelligence briefings with Bush admin).
Liar.
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
October 2nd, 2012
3:03 pm
“Or occocor ykcor! LOL”
Congratulations. In only a couple of hours you have become the type of non-substance poster you cried about in the other thread.
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
3:05 pm
And who Jose, do you think the Iraqi people blame for the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians that got in the way of that war? Who do you think they blame for the lack of basic services that have never been rebuilt? Who do you think they blame for the doors kicked in and the family members dragged off to who knows where? Most of them were broke to begin with and live detached from most everything but their village and province. They’ll blame the West. Not. Saddam…”the guy that tried to kill my daddy”. But given the choice between dying and sanctions what do think is preferable to them.
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
3:06 pm
MARY E believes starving children and letting them die through sanctions is non violent
nobel peace prize anyone?
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
3:06 pm
Mary Elizabeth – Does your love of sanctions include the five that the U.N. levied against North Korea under GW Bush, or just the one levied under Obama? Because it seems to me that you just want to say Republicans bad / Democrats good. Even when they both do the same thing.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
3:07 pm
Wiki page on the causes of the Iranian revolution (linked to the section regarding mistakes of the Shah):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Iranian_Revolution#Policies_and_policy_mistakes_of_the_Shah
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
3:08 pm
JamVet — “I love knowing that the con’s heads explode when the info is directly from the most popular right wing web site on the Innertubes…”
SWEET!
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
3:09 pm
marisol
you act like democrats haven’t been compliant in the wars
you are so caught up in your ideology that you dont even understand that IRAQIS could care less about democrats or republicans………. they are smart enough to know that no matter which party is in power it wont matter
in fact i bet you can’t admit that it was BUSH that got us out of IRAQ and not OBAMA
2008 U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces AgreementIn 2008, the US and Iraqi government signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement which stipulates that all US forces should withdraw from Iraqi cities by 30 June 2009 and from Iraqi territory altogether by 31 December 2011. On 14 December 2008, then-U.S. President George W. Bush signed the security pact with Iraq. In his fourth and final trip to Iraq, the president appeared with Iraq’s prime minister Nouri al-Maliki and said more work is to be done.
They BOTH suck
October 2nd, 2012
3:10 pm
Jose
Dont forget about the Shah’s Savak. You know the folks who made people “disappear when they spoke too loudly and often about the regime and some of its oppressive tactics………
Not much unlike the clowns currently in power
Don’t be fooled that the Shah was a “good guy” just because he was on the St Department and CIA payroll
Fred ™
October 2nd, 2012
3:15 pm
Steve-USA “None of the Above”
October 2nd, 2012
3:03 pm
“Or occocor ykcor! LOL”
Congratulations. In only a couple of hours you have become the type of non-substance poster you cried about in the other thread.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
While you on the other hand remain the asshat you have always been. Since you fail to understand the post you quoted, a better tack would have been to ignore it.
I understood it perfectly well as it was directed to me and to any others with a brain.
Mary Elizabeth
October 2nd, 2012
3:16 pm
Jose, 3:06 pm
Jose, please notice my words carefully. I deliberately wrote “relatively nonviolent means.” The word “relatively” connotes that economic sanctions inflicted on people are more nonviolent that the killing and maiming of them that will occur in war.
————————————
Mary Elizabeth: “. . .two, they learn to trust solving mutual problems through the relatively nonviolent means of economic sanctions.”
That Black Guy
October 2nd, 2012
3:19 pm
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
12:57 pm
““Tough sanctions were imposed on Germany after WW I . How’d that work out?””
I don’t think I’ve EVER heard a more defeatist statement. What a loser.
________________________________________________________
I have…
“I believe myself that the secretary of state, secretary of defense and – you have to make your own decisions as to what the president knows – (know) this war is lost and the surge is not accomplishing anything as indicated by the extreme violence in Iraq yesterday,” said Reid, D-Nev.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18227928/ns/politics/t/reid-iraq-war-lost-us-cant-win/
Soldier Mom
October 2nd, 2012
3:20 pm
As an aside, just got off the phone with my son who is due to go back to Afghanistan in December. He has served in both Iraq and Afghanistan many, many times (7). He is always telling me “don’t worry mom, I’m intelligence, I’m always covered”. This time I hear “it’s getting hot (not as in temperature) over there right now, I’m getting sick of wars, I don’t need the extra money”. I reminded him to make sure he votes (lives in Germany). We don’t need to be talking about the “next” war, we need to be talking about the best way to avoid war – something we have failed to do recently.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 2nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Almost all democrats (exception Obama, whose own Afghan war is going just splendidly) voted in favor of ground war (having shared intelligence briefings with Bush admin).
Not even in the same time zone as the truth.
Rightwing Troll
October 2nd, 2012
3:20 pm
“MARY E believes starving children and letting them die through sanctions is non violent
nobel peace prize anyone?”
It’s much better to bomb them and snuff out their little miserable, brown skinned lives instantly. It’s the godly, humane way to end their suffering, right?
John Birch
October 2nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Just another example of liberals wanting the world to run in accordance with their feminine nature. Unfortunately the bad guys out there, Iran, N Korea, etc. don’t think or act that way.
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
3:23 pm
THEY BOTH SUCK
i never said he was a good guy……….. and it is well known he was another dictator propped up by the WEST to prevent communism
dont mistake educating a situation to ENDORSING a dictator
its a known fact we set up and trained Saddam Hussein……..
or we supported DICTATORS in South Vietnam …….. etc.
i know and ackowledge all that
the point is that WE WILL NEVER FULLY UNDERSTAND AND SEE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF ISLAM
it is a belief system that we cannot relate too……….. just because in the US we have some modernized and westernized muslims do not mean that the rest of ISLAM believes like they do………..
just like many violent and angry protestors in those countries do not reflect the beliefs of all of ISLAM
however, it is ARROGANT of the LEFT to think that OBAMA is modeling MLK and that the world will love us because our intentions are pure
its bull and we all know it
its evolution and survival of the fittest………..
if we are too strong or come across as too weak we have problems
we have gone from one extreme to another
Rightwing Troll
October 2nd, 2012
3:24 pm
“Just another example of liberals wanting the world to run in accordance with their feminine nature. Unfortunately the bad guys out there, Iran, N Korea, etc. don’t think or act that way.”
Just another example of another xenophobic wingnut, who thinks god created murica to run the world.
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
3:24 pm
What I know Jose is that it’s not the democrats rattling their sabers and itching for another unwinnable war in the middle east. Tell me Jose, just what the hell have we gained? The problems just move. And it’s debatable whether Saddam Hussein was a problem to begin with. I can tell you what we lost that we can’t get back. The lives of our sons daughters sisters brothers fathers mothers.
My oldest brother is a West Point Grad on his 4th tour in Afghanistan. In Paktika Province right now and still might not make it back. My little brother came back from Helmand province in a box. He graduated from Texas A&M got commissioned, went to Afghanistan and 4 months later at 22 years old was dead. For what? So hell yes I prefer sanctions. Furthermore if anybody named Romney, or Cheney, or assorted other cowards had to spill their blood there would be some sheathed sabers for sure.
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Soldier Mom – Agree or disagree politically, thank you for your sacrifice. I know it must be hard seeing your son in harm’s way.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 2nd, 2012
3:24 pm
we have gone from one extreme to another
There’s your sign.
Fred ™
October 2nd, 2012
3:25 pm
John Birch
October 2nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Just another example of liberals wanting the world to run in accordance with their feminine nature. Unfortunately the bad guys out there, Iran, N Korea, etc. don’t think or act that way.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So what are you trying to say? All male liberals are homosexuals? I’m not a liberal but it the choice were between being mistaken for a homo sexual or a Baptist I’ll go with gay every time………….
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
3:26 pm
Soldier Mom — “As an aside, just got off the phone with my son who is due to go back to Afghanistan in December. He has served in both Iraq and Afghanistan many, many times (7). He is always telling me “don’t worry mom, I’m intelligence, I’m always covered”. This time I hear “it’s getting hot (not as in temperature) over there right now, I’m getting sick of wars, I don’t need the extra money”.
As a fellow veteran, I would like to express my appreciation for your son’s service and my sincere hope that he and everyone in his unit makes it back home hale, hearty and in one piece.
They BOTH suck
October 2nd, 2012
3:27 pm
Jose
My point about the Shah is that many on the right love to claim that Carter brought on the Khomeini and his radicals…….
That is incorrect.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
3:27 pm
JAMVET @ 2:38
Despite the commentary you offered, I don’t think this assessment will result in less votes or less turnout for Romney…they may be unhappy about their candidate, but they will not sit home and they will not vote for BO…they don’t want KENMITTDOLL in as much as they want BO out..
If voters turnout for BO in 2008 fashion, its over…this is an assumption by all polls but rasmussen who blends 2008, 2004 and 2000…
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
3:28 pm
J. Birch — “Just another example of liberals wanting the world to run in accordance with their feminine nature.”
I’m a liberal. AND I’m a disabled US Army veteran. Jerk.
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
3:29 pm
marisol
what have we gained
do you not see that FREE ELECTIONS are OCCURING all over the middle east
that the people of these countries are exercising SELF DETERMINATION
THAT IS THE AMERICAN IDEAL
its beautiful
we might not like the outcomes
but its WHAT WE BELIEVE IN
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Kam, more than a handful of our right wingers here cannot help themselves.
They, like their nominees, are inveterate liars.
And so shameless that even when exposed, they will puke up the *exact same lie* within a few days or weeks.
We’ve witnessed here innumerable times.
Birch is funny. He blusters like a hardened combat veteran, but the guy never found a military recruiting station that he would not cross the street so as to avoid walking past…
John Birch
October 2nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Fred – Just helping th elibs to acknowledge theri feminne leanings. You don’t have to be gay, just being emascualted by your wife or mother will do fine. The researchers found that libertarians had the most “masculine” psychological profile, while liberals had the most feminine, and these results held up even when they examined each gender separately, which “may explain why libertarianism appeals to men more than women.”
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10000872396390444358804578016291138331904-lMyQjAxMTAyMDAwMTAwODE3Wj.html?mod=wsj_valetleft_email
They BOTH suck
October 2nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Jose
US plays with a “double edged” sword when we prop up repressive regimes. While the US does plenty of good world wide, people are naive if they think some of our own policies do not play a significant role in some of the problems we face as a nation in regards to foreign affairs……..
It is surely a delicate situation and tough calls must be made, but when you prop up tyrants, the chances of it being “win win” long term is a fool’s bet
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 2nd, 2012
3:31 pm
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
3:06 pm
MARY E believes starving children and letting them die through sanctions is non violent
nobel peace prize anyone?
.
.
.
.
No use your logic Jose….I guess we can say
Jose prefers millions be instantly be vaporized and the land contaminated for hundreds of years instead of diplomacy.
They BOTH suck
October 2nd, 2012
3:31 pm
John Birch
You must be an “outlier” based on that data
just sayin
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
3:31 pm
mm your 2:48 is classic. LMAO!
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
3:32 pm
Marisol — “My oldest brother is a West Point Grad on his 4th tour in Afghanistan. In Paktika Province right now and still might not make it back. My little brother came back from Helmand province in a box. He graduated from Texas A&M got commissioned, went to Afghanistan and 4 months later at 22 years old was dead.”
I’m terrribly sorry for your loss and I’m sincerely hopeful that your brother (and all the soldiers in his unit) come back safe and well.
And I’m in complete agreement with what you’re saying. I was in during the first go-round with Saddam Hussein, and all I can say about that is that today’s servicemembers have it WAY harder than we did twenty years ago.
Please tell your brother to check his six and keep five meters.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
3:32 pm
FRED,
I love that word asshat..reminds me of my daughters first boyfriend who has the distinction of having been born with his ass where his head should have been…I call him buttface…prefer your moniker..
SOLDERMOM,
Hope your son returns healthy and in good spritual condition….I’m rooting for him..you should be very,very proud..
I don’t want to discount the work of our troops, I simply wish a more critical situation existed to justify putting our kids l lives on the line…we are getting no return from our investment in either war IMO…
philosopher
October 2nd, 2012
3:33 pm
John Birch
October 2nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Fred – Just helping th elibs to acknowledge theri feminne leanings. You don’t have to be gay, just being emascualted by your wife or mother will do fine.
Man, you are just plain disgusting! I pity any female related to you in any way!
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
October 2nd, 2012
3:33 pm
Fred – “While you on the other hand remain the asshat you have always been. Since you fail to understand the post you quoted, a better tack would have been to ignore it.”
Fred you have hurt my feeling with your name calling. What an impressive Internet tough guy you are. LOL
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 2nd, 2012
3:33 pm
Frankly, considering what the “masculine” has done to the world
makes the “feminine” quite the compliment.
Ovary envy!
Boris Badnoff
October 2nd, 2012
3:33 pm
Personally I won’t be happy until all Iranians act like Michigan State professors.
http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2012/10/student_michigan_state_profess.html
Just look at Amadinnerjacket and the mullahs and you can tell that the embargo on shaving materials is working.
Bring back The Shah.
They BOTH suck
October 2nd, 2012
3:34 pm
Stevie
I do not think Jamvet was implying what you said. However I do think he is implying that the majority of the electorate will not be voting for Romney…………
Who doesn’t know that Romney is going to get 45 to 47% of the vote?
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
3:34 pm
Kudos RIghtwing Troll you’re making fools of all of them today.
John Birch
October 2nd, 2012
3:36 pm
Jan & JHM – Thanks for your service but I’m confused. Does that mean you realized shooting at little brown or yellow men who hadn’t done anything to you was immoral after you did it?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 2nd, 2012
3:36 pm
SHEETS!
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
3:36 pm
JOHN BIRCH,
Perhaps that just incinuates that liberals are more comfortable with their manhood than, say…you?
Why on earth does your view of irrelevant “manhood” comments have to do with anything…homophobic perhaps?
In the words of Hunter S Thompson…”Good God Man!”
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
3:38 pm
SR, it is hard to say who is more turned off by their candidate, and who will not show up.
But thanks to the depraved Rush and plenty of other equally moronic misogynists in the GOP, I suspect that the sluts, prostitutes and FemiNazis are NOT going to stay home this November.
Which is always very bad news for the GOP…
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
3:39 pm
they both suck
that is why we are admired and hated
you are right
They BOTH suck
October 2nd, 2012
3:40 pm
Stevie
Birch is just pathetic. I do not think it has anything to do with politics. It is just manifested through his version of right leaning political views……..
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
3:40 pm
THank you Joe Hussein Mama. They won’t get my son. I have a ranch on the border in Eagle Pass, Tx and I’ll walk him across the Rio Grande and chain him to a tree before he’ll fight in another unwinnable idiotic war. Enoughs enough.
Lee
October 2nd, 2012
3:42 pm
Many of the top anaylists are predicting another recession. Will this one be Bush’s fault as well?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
3:42 pm
J. Birch — “Jan & JHM – Thanks for your service but I’m confused. Does that mean you realized shooting at little brown or yellow men who hadn’t done anything to you was immoral after you did it?”
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
skipper
October 2nd, 2012
3:45 pm
Turn Israel loose….make a big old sandbox.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
3:45 pm
JAMVETS,
What do you have against sluts?
Anyhow, BO enjoyed (for whatever reason) a helluva turnout in 2008…I will be surprised if he hits that number this time around…on the counter, millions of evangelics did stay at home in 2008 due to McClains lack of interest in their interests….I think they in total represent somewhere between 20-30 million folks..my understanding is that a material amount who stayed out last year are being influenced by their respective religious leaders to get the vote on…
Regardless of what the polls say or what wishful thinking may exist (perhaps better phrased unsubstantiated wishful thinking), the polls at this point mean nothing..they can’t predict turnout…
Hoover is my hero
October 2nd, 2012
3:45 pm
Sorry, Fred. Apparently you were quoting an earlier post and I thought is was yours. Good thing I didn’t have nukes.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
3:48 pm
THEYBOTHSUCK (YES THEY CERTAINLY DO)
May I submit there may be more, sinister factors in play for our pal Birch? Perhaps we should be sympathic as he may be influenced by a disease….say addiction of some sort?
Mary Elizabeth
October 2nd, 2012
3:50 pm
alittlecommonsense, 3:06 pm
“Mary Elizabeth – Does your love of sanctions include the five that the U.N. levied against North Korea under GW Bush, or just the one levied under Obama? Because it seems to me that you just want to say Republicans bad / Democrats good. Even when they both do the same thing.”
===================================
You raise a valid question. To answer your question, I would assert that, in my opinion, the Democratic vision is MORE a vision of communication and dialogue – before deciding on using the brutality of weapons of war – than is the Republican vision. So, I see that the difference in the two parties, in this regard, is one of degree. Obama would more likely try to lead by collaboration than by domination. Here are Obama’s words June 4, 2009 at Cairo University in Cairo, Egypt:
President Obama: “For human history has often been a record of nations and tribes subjugating one another to serve their own interests. Yet in this new age, such attitudes are self-defeating. Given our interdependence, any world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will inevitably fail. So whatever we think of the past, we must not be prisoners of it. Our problems must be dealt with through partnership; progress must be shared.”
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Also, notice Jay’s words, below, at 1:22 pm, which, imo, give facts which demonstrate that the Republican Party’s vision is one that believes that a militaristic approach is a MORE effective one in obtaining peaceful results, ultimately, than a collaborative approach. I do not think that most Democrats would agree with that position. Both parties will use both approaches, i.e., you mention that Bush II used sanctions in persuasion with in N. Korea, and we know that Obama has used drone attacks in fighting Al Quaida. However, I believe that the overriding vision the Democrat Party has is to lead – as much as possible – by collaboration rather than by intimidation because those tactics will, ultimately, have more lasting peaceful ends.
Jay Bookman: “Many Bush administration officials have emphasized the U.S.-led 2003 invasion of Iraq, as well as the October 2003 interdiction of a ship containing nuclear-related components destined for Libya, as key factors in Tripoli’s decision. But outside experts argue that years of sanctions and diplomatic efforts were more important.”
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
3:51 pm
SR, interesting, that.
Earlier in his campaign there was some significant discussion about how the rabid red fundies and evans would not be happy about voting for a RINO from a “false denomination” (hat tip Senor Digits).
But there is little argument that ODS is a powerful motivator out there on the fringe…
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
3:52 pm
Jose you miss my point. I don’t give a rat’s butt who gets us out. We shouldn’t have been there in the first place. It’s the people that get them started that concerns me. And I bet given the choice of having their electricity and sewer systems back and voting they’d take the lights and water. Most of these people are so detached from the government it doesn’t matter who the government is..
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
3:53 pm
Not to mention the loved ones that would still be alive and with them minus these unnecessary wars.
John Birch
October 2nd, 2012
3:53 pm
I just posted a link to a WSJ piece about psychologial studies relating to political ideologies. Not surprisingly, libertarians had the most logical, masculine profile, and liberals the most feminine. What surprises me is how many of you immediately became defensive and insulting, reacting as if YOUR masculinity had been threatened. You would be better served to embrace your compassionate view of the world.
And again I ask you to expaalin why you have more compassion and tolerance for an Arab half a world away that probably either hates, fears, or envys you, than a hard working fellow Americzan who happens to have opinions different from your own? What your actions say clearly, as opposed to your words, is you are really only tolerant of people who think like you. And, as th eprofiles above support, you react emotionally by insulting me an calling me names, rather than rationally explaining yourselves.
Have a great day.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
3:55 pm
THEYBOTHSUCK
Check out latest from George Will..great read..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-will-romney-running-out-of-clock/2012/10/01/55922ea4-0bec-11e2-bb5e-492c0d30bff6_story.html
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
3:57 pm
MARISOL
i think you are mistaken if you think they want HUSSEIN back
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
3:57 pm
JAMVET
Two expressions I’m not sure I understand…ODS and Sheets..can you help a brother out?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 2nd, 2012
3:58 pm
George “Take It Elsewhere, Buster” Will.
Too funny!
Hoover is my hero
October 2nd, 2012
3:59 pm
I think even the Dems among us would admit that sanctions might not work, but war ought to be the last resort. In the meantime, while we’ve got our shorts in a wad over Iran having nukes, Pakistan has been sitting on a large stockpile of nukes for years. When there’s gasoline all around, you need to be careful about striking matches.
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
4:00 pm
Stevie Ray – I am guessing that “sheets” means Jay has posted a new topic…
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
4:01 pm
J. Birch — “And, as th eprofiles above support, you react emotionally by insulting me an calling me names, rather than rationally explaining yourselves.”
The mating call of the Concern Troll.
John Birch
October 2nd, 2012
4:02 pm
JHM – I’m quilty of a little trolling I admit. but in total seriousness I’d love if all foreign issues could be solved by negotiation and sanctions. But I don’t think that’s realistic. What Jay posted today suggests sanctions are working by putting pressure on the economy of Iran. Fine, but is that making them more or less likely to develop and even possibly use a nuclear weapon?
I wouldn’[t say the approah is working because their currency is devalued. I’d say it is working when they come to the UN, announce they won’t develop nuclear weapons if we will ift the sanctions, an allow inspectors in for verification. Until them all we’ve don is piss them off some more.
BTW, contrary to Jam’s rant I do know what the inside of a recruiting office looks like. Trid to enlist, twice, but as you certainly remember the Navy was pretty seletive back in the day. Got tuirned down twice and then probably the only diference between you and me is I went to college and had a deferment until I got a high (305) lottery number.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
4:03 pm
S. Ray — “Two expressions I’m not sure I understand…ODS and Sheets..can you help a brother out?”
“Sheets” means there’s a new blog topic superseding this one. The expression is short for “clean sheets upstairs,” suggesting that this thread is actually a dirty, slept-in bed and that there’s a nice clean bed upstairs, just waiting for us all to pile in and mess it up, too.
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
4:05 pm
So Jose…tell me if you were in their shoes and your wife and children were graveyard dead you’d prefer them dead to having Saddam Hussein. COME ON MAN!
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
4:05 pm
J. Birch — “probably the only diference between you and me is I went to college and had a deferment until I got a high (305) lottery number.”
Actually, I went to college as well, both before AND after my service. Earned two degrees before enlisting and three more degrees after completing my service and receiving my Honorable Discharge.
Soldier Mom
October 2nd, 2012
4:11 pm
Thanks for all the good wishes from all of you. I didn’t throw that out there for well wishes, but I will pass them onto my son. Question for all you vets, did you ever go back in thinking, “I dont’ want to do this anymore”? That’s what concerns me. The voice is different this time. We have been through this alot – but the sound is different. And now we want to talk about war with Iran and poor Bibi and we have to show the world who we are. I ask – why?
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
4:12 pm
marisol
so all IRAQIS have their family DEAD and in the ground
come on yourself
thats ridiculous
of course those that lost loved ones would want to have them back
BUT TO THINK THAT IRAQ WOULD RATHER HAVE HUSSEIN OVER SELF DETERMINATIN IS LUNACY
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
4:15 pm
Soldier Mom — “Question for all you vets, did you ever go back in thinking, “I dont’ want to do this anymore”?
In what respect? I don’t understand the question. Can you elaborate, please?
Soldier Mom
October 2nd, 2012
4:31 pm
Sorry I didn’t make that clear. I literally jsut got off the phone with him and my mind is rattling with what he said. Hope I can clarify – Every time my son goes back into Iraq or Afghanistan, same voice. He would do one year in, 4 mnths out, one year in, blah, blah. Now he does 4 mnths in, supposed to be one yr out but ususally it is 4 mths out, and 4 back in. Anyway, this time I hear something in his voice that is different. I know Afghanistan has been under attack by “blue on green” (I think they call it), but that doesn’t usually concern my son. I didn’t hear “concern” in the voice, but he is hesitant this time. Maybe I am reading something else into it and it is nothing but our converstaion this time was about making sure he voted and how I will miss him (and my daughter-in-law) during the holidays, again. Did you have that kind of service?
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
4:45 pm
SR,
Obama Derangement Syndrome.
Sheets means a new thread is up. (as in fresh sheets.)
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
4:47 pm
Soldier Mom — “Did you have that kind of service?”
No, I lucked out. I didn’t go to Iraq myself (for either Desert Shield or Desert Storm), as I was stationed in Hawaii with the 25th Infantry Division. We *were* confined to the island — no off-island leaves or exercises were authorized — because if something happened in Asia, we were designated as the first unit to go put out the fire. There was apparently some concern that North Korea might pull something while we were tied up in Iraq.
So my division didn’t even deploy to Iraq. But we did send a bunch of doctors and medics, as well as a lot of truck drivers and helicopter pilots. We also sent about one battalion’s worth of infantrymen, who wound up being General Schwartzkopf’s ‘palace guard’ and pulling security at Safwan Airfield for the formal Iraqi surrender. Those guys came back with some stories to tell!
But as far as Desert Storm goes, I spent it on the beaches of Oahu, Hawaii.
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
4:48 pm
No Jose…only a couple hundred thousand. You saying their lives are irrelevant? I bet you can make them all feel better with that logic.
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
4:58 pm
MARISOL
that view is skewed
according to your logic we wouldn’t have fought the revolutionary war
guess you prefer tea and crumpets and dictators
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
4:59 pm
Jose get real. How long will that last after we leave? It’s high time that Americans get it through our thick skulls that we are not policemen to the world. We’re not nation builders. We’re not the final determiner as to what is best for any country outside our own borders. You can use all the fuzzy logic the neocons feed you but the truth is all nations are not candidates for democratization. If they want democracy let them get it the way we did. Didn’t we take on the most powerful Army in the world with basically nothing but the will to do so?
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
5:08 pm
MARISOL
i never said we should be policemen of the world and agree we need to keep our noses out of others business
you are so ignorant that you assume you know my position
and you are so ideological that you wont understand that these other countries
can hate us but at the same time LIKE that they have self determination
but you preface on false assumption
they DONT WANT DEMOCRACY]
that is a WESTERN BELIEF
they want their own system
and they have taken advantage of our actions to move forward
in fact in the long run we are not going to like what comes out of it all
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
5:25 pm
Yes Jose I’m so ignorant that I have a degree from the University of Texas and own my own ranch running 200 head of Santa Gertrudis cattle that I started with 20 head. I employ 6 entire families. So yeah I’m dumber than a box of rocks compared to you. I guess the difference in my worldview and yours is that everyday when I go out to check my herd I have to pass my little brothers brother’s grave. Dead at 22 because of ideologies like yours. Next time we have a good war Jose take your butt down to the recruiting station and go fight it. Better yet send your kids. Then come back and call me ignorant.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 2nd, 2012
6:48 pm
Mary Elizabeth: “The leveling of economic sanctions is a nonviolent approach to solving world problems.”
That’s absurd! Have you heard anything about the effects of these sanctions on workers and other people in the country?
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
October 2nd, 2012
8:03 pm
Is this helping the situation in Libya?
dabir dalton
October 2nd, 2012
8:33 pm
Jay no matter how one looks at the sanctions against Iran it will always spell Economic Terrorism. Not only has the US refused to disarm its own nuclear weapons it has also armed Israel with nuclear weapons of mass destruction then bullies into submission any other country that seeks to arm themselves with their own nuclear weapons. This is not what the founders of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights had in mind and eventually when the US faces an opponent who has the will and the ability to fight back America will have no moral ground on which to stand.