Sanctions drive Iranian currency down 25-40% in a week
Are tightened international sanctions against Iran working?
As the BBC reports:
In the past seven days, Iran’s rial has has lost 25% of its value; it is now, at best, worth only a quarter of what it was 18 months ago. And the freefall seems to have no end in sight.
Recent days in Iran have seen runs on foreign currencies and on gold – assets that are easily liquefied in the domestic market or transferable overseas.
On the one hand Iranians have lost their trust in their government’s grip over the economy, and on the other they fear their country may end up in a military confrontation with Israel over its nuclear programme.
Therefore, they have good reason to change whatever they have in hand into currencies whose value is sustained internationally, or into gold bullion which they can throw into a suitcase if they want to hop aboard a flight and leave the country.
On Tuesday morning the window of licensed exchange bureaux showed rates never seen before: every US dollar bought 35,000 rials; currently the lowest valued currency per unit in the world.
Other estimates have put the decline at closer to 40 percent in a week. Prices for basic food items — many of them imported — have soared in response, and a petition signed by 10,000 Iranian factory workers complaining about the conditions has been delivered to the Labor Ministry. Iranian leaders this week also tried to ban access to Google and Gmail before backing off the effort as hopeless. And in Israel, Haaretz reports that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is being set up by his rivals as the fall guy for the economic crisis.
Iran’s currency is collapsing because its oil industry is also collapsing; recent estimates are that oil production has fallen by as much as half because under sanctions, the Iranians simply can’t find customers who are willing to buy their product. Those dwindling few that want to buy Iranian oil often find themselves unable to pay for it, thanks to strict banking sanctions. In July, for example, President Obama approved new sanctions on any financial institution in the world that helps to facilitate the purchase of Iranian oil.
Israeli officials also seem to have recommitted themselves to seeing the sanctions option through to its ultimate outcome, whatever that may be”
JERUSALEM — Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, plans to travel to Europe before the end of the year, among other things to press for a toughening of sanctions against Tehran, Israeli officials said on Tuesday. The plans appeared to be another indication of a shifting Israeli emphasis, at least for now, toward efforts to stop the Iranian nuclear program by means other than military action….
The growing Israeli focus on a new round of sanctions comes amid reports of the deep impact that current sanctions are having on the Iranian economy. A recent internal report prepared by the Israeli Foreign Ministry stated that the sanctions may, according to some assessments, also be affecting the stability of the Iranian government, which insists that its nuclear program is for purely peaceful purposes.”
– Jay Bookman
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302 comments Add your comment
Lee
October 2nd, 2012
1:18 pm
Hmmm, lets see are the sanctions working. Are they still building and pursuing nuclear weapons?
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
1:18 pm
“Wow…did something useful for a change. I wonder who thought of doing that?”
Tread, help me out – is this some kind on conservative talk-show meme that suggests that Obama doesn’t think of his own stuff or something? I saw a similar snark in a previous post, but I live outside the bubble, and honstly don’t know.
Thanks for your help.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
1:19 pm
td — “South Africa had 6 Nuclear bombs before they changed governments”
South Africa is the *only* nation on earth to have developed nuclear weapons and then VOLUNTARILY given them up. You can thank economic sanctions for that.
“Iraq had a Nuclear plant before Israel bombed it”
In the 1980s. You must have forgotten that we didn’t start sanctioning Iraq until the *1990s.* And after Desert Storm, no nuclear plant or nuclear weapon development.on Iraq’s part.
“and Libya was so scared of GWB that they voluntarily gave their program up.”
Nope. The UK talked them out of it by pointing out how much Libya stood to gain by trade with the US and UK if they abandoned the program. It’s a popular conservative meme that Bush did it all by his lonesome, but the fact of the matter is that the UK did almost all of the talking and the sanctions did the rest of the work.
“Tell us again how sanctions made these countries not nuclear?”
Game, set and match.
Don't Tread
October 2nd, 2012
1:20 pm
“And that is the whole point of repeating the x% PAY NO TAXES AT ALL lie.”
When that x% don’t contribute anything of value to receive their welfare check, “they” didn’t pay anything…they took it from one taxpayer-funded bucket and put it in another bucket.
Brosephus™
October 2nd, 2012
1:21 pm
Nice Guy
I see your point. I still think that simply citing specifics when talking about that group undercuts the “gotcha” game altogether. You can’t walk into a known trap and get angry when it springs on you. At least that’s how I see it.
—————————
Regnad Kcin
I don’t think it goes that far. It’s just a case of using “shorthand” if you want to call it that as opposed to typing out everything whenever referring to that group.
curious
October 2nd, 2012
1:21 pm
If all the countries worried about Iran’ nuclear intentions would stop buying middle east oil, the whole issue would be resolved in a few weeks.
As it is now, we’re paying them to kill us.
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
1:22 pm
“When that x% don’t contribute anything of value to receive their welfare check, “they” didn’t pay anything…they took it from one taxpayer-funded bucket and put it in another bucket.”
——————-
I know those goalposts were around here somewhere…
Jay
October 2nd, 2012
1:22 pm
Sanctions played a role in each of those cases, td. For example, regarding Libya, the U.S. Arms Control Association writes:
“The factors that induced Libya to give up its weapons programs are debatable. Many Bush administration officials have emphasized the U.S.-led 2003 invasion of Iraq, as well as the October 2003 interdiction of a ship containing nuclear-related components destined for Libya, as key factors in Tripoli’s decision. But outside experts argue that years of sanctions and diplomatic efforts were more important.”
stands for decibels
October 2nd, 2012
1:22 pm
When that x% don’t contribute anything of value to receive their welfare check
To a yellow snake-sticker guy, of course, being a breadwinner and raising a family of American citizens fails to qualify as “anything of value.”
Fred ™
October 2nd, 2012
1:23 pm
Backwards Nick LOL your name drives me crazy.
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
1:23 pm
“As it is now, we’re paying them to kill us.”
Maybe we should impose sanctions…
getalife
October 2nd, 2012
1:24 pm
“”Red line, white line, black line and the like is for children. This is the level of this guy’s character,” Ahmadinejad said at a news conference in Tehran. “It was a primitive drawing, an insult to the audience … it was a very ugly behavior.”
The Iranian president used the packed press conference to accuse Netanyahu of being a war-monger, saying of him: “Whoever talks of war is retarded.” Aol.
Cracking from the pressure.
Lee
October 2nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Jay, please show which experts you are referring to in Iraq. Being that we were able to go in and remove the regime and Saddam I would say that was much more impactful.
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
1:24 pm
“Backwards Nick LOL your name drives me crazy.”
Sorry.
google “nick danger, third eye”
Donovan
October 2nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Hey, Bookman…did Debbie Wasserman Schultz tell you to get out the information about Iran to make Obama look good or is it your idea?
Based on the Benghazi cover-up now all over the news, I think your timing is suspiciouly predictable. Based on the upcoming debate about foreign policy, I think your timing is also childish.
First of all, it shows how you Democrats operate. Out comes the snake oil and smoke-and-mirrors that are typical in covering your incompetence and mistakes of governance.
Secondly, it is proof positive that Democrat foreign policy administration is a joke and is naive of world affairs. The cover-up is compounding Obama’s failing position to side-step manslaughter on his watch,just like Ted Kennedy’s joy ride on Chappaquiddick. You people are reprehensible and shameless.
Oh, by the way…I just love your little myrmidon’s snarky comments about Bibi Netanyahu. Another mirrored reaction to their commander-in-chief’s low class opinion of the Jewish leader of Isreal.
Brosephus™
October 2nd, 2012
1:25 pm
dB
I wasn’t going to touch that comment. I figured the ignorance simply spoke for itself.
Bloomberg Troll
October 2nd, 2012
1:25 pm
“Therefore, they have good reason to change whatever they have in hand into currencies whose value is sustained internationally, or into gold bullion which they can throw into a suitcase if they want to hop aboard a flight and leave the country.”
America 2025
stands for decibels
October 2nd, 2012
1:26 pm
(By the by, I wasn’t including our Nice Guy as a “moocher meme”-er, at least not based on what he’s posted in this thread. My bad if it seemed that way.)
St Simons
October 2nd, 2012
1:27 pm
this guy down at the harbor said if you listen to a flock of seagulls,
they would tell you everything you need to know about Iran.
sounds crazy to me…
stands for decibels
October 2nd, 2012
1:28 pm
This yellow snake sticker is kind of cool.
http://www.zazzle.com/dont_tread_on_me_flag_parody_sticker-217797620539189157
getalife
October 2nd, 2012
1:29 pm
donovan,
What would you say if the Dems played politics right after 9/11 and refused to unite to get the terrorists?
Rightwing Troll
October 2nd, 2012
1:30 pm
” I get a good laugh from the almost word for word regurgitations we see on a daily basis. Herd mentality is very fun to observe.”
Yes, it’s great fun watching moochers call other folks moochers…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 2nd, 2012
1:30 pm
I know those goalposts were around here somewhere…
Don’t look for ‘em ’round here.
They’re a ¼ mile away, attached to Cruz Pedregon’s Funny Car.
Fred ™
October 2nd, 2012
1:30 pm
Yo St Simons: My neighbor gave us something called “St. Simons Salad” which is basically shrimp, and onions swimming in lemon juice and veggie oil along with some capers. Ever heard of it?
Oh and here’s your dedication request:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Pq0xYr3L4
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
1:32 pm
JAY,
What do you think about the possibility of the sanctions only truly affecting general population? The same folks who will be shot for speaking against Almondine et al..
Jay
October 2nd, 2012
1:32 pm
Donovan, your highly emotional, intellectually self-nullifying posts are generally a hoot, but that one may set a new high (or low, depending on your point of view).
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
1:34 pm
“Secondly, it is proof positive that Democrat foreign policy administration is a joke and is naive of world affairs”
Wow, Jay, I bet you didn’t know your blogs had so much power!
getalife
October 2nd, 2012
1:34 pm
I will go with a new low.
Fred ™
October 2nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Regnad Kcin
October 2nd, 2012
1:24 pm
“Backwards Nick LOL your name drives me crazy.”
Sorry.
google “nick danger, third eye”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Keith Christmon? Is that you? I think I’ll change MY name to wahsdarB .tL
Butch Cassidy (I)
October 2nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Lee – “Being that we were able to go in and remove the regime and Saddam I would say that was much more impactful.”
Agree. How else could we have killed and maimed over 5,000 U.S. soldiers, spent a trillion dollars and paved the way for Iran to dominate the region.
Jay
October 2nd, 2012
1:37 pm
Stevie Ray, there’s no question that sanctions hurt a lot of innocent people. That’s part of the strategy — by hurting them, you undercut support for the regime. In this case, however, they also hurt the Iranian powerbrokers who have lost access to their capital overseas, who are barred from traveling internationally, etc.
You also have to weigh it against the alternatives. Sanctions are a cruel, blunt weapon that doesn’t always work, but war is an even more cruel, blunt weapon. Who do you think bears the consequence of that?
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
1:37 pm
Economic sanctions are one tool in the toolbox for both republicans and democrats. They are not universally effective in acheiving our ends – see North Korea and Cuba. Let’s don’t declare victory yet. Nothing in this column says Iran is discontinuing their nuclear program. It would be great if that were to happen, but I don’t see sanctions having that effect. I don’t think Jay even expects that to happen.
stands for decibels
October 2nd, 2012
1:37 pm
Hey, *I* totally get the connection between Iran and an automobile accident from 43 years ago, don’t you guys?
Mick
October 2nd, 2012
1:37 pm
I’ll go with confused, muddled, and to top it off – nonsense…
Fred ™
October 2nd, 2012
1:39 pm
stands for decibels
October 2nd, 2012
1:37 pm
Hey, *I* totally get the connection between Iran and an automobile accident from 43 years ago, don’t you guys?
++++++++++++++++++++
Sadly it makes more sense than MOST of what he posts……………
Lee
October 2nd, 2012
1:41 pm
Jay you DO realize that force is going to needed in Iran. I am not sure to what extent the USA will be involved but within 12 month action is going to need to be taken.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 2nd, 2012
1:42 pm
“myrmidon”
Isn’t that one of Kneel Boortz’ words?
Welcome to the Occupation
October 2nd, 2012
1:42 pm
Can you just imagine what US imperialism can do in the Middle East without that pesky Iran around?
Now THAT’s something Obama and Gov. Romney can sure get on the same page about (along with security state, and a few other issues that are of no concern to you, peon scum average citizen).
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
1:42 pm
alittlecommonsense — “They are not universally effective in acheiving our ends – see North Korea and Cuba.”
In what way do you think that economic sanctions were ineffective in North Korea?
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
1:43 pm
Those of you who want to blame Bush and give credit to Obama for everything should realize that there are six separate U.N. sanctions against Iran in effect. Five of those were put in place under George W Bush. Obama has basically stayed the course set by Bush.
Jay
October 2nd, 2012
1:43 pm
littlecommonsense, I think it’s highly possible for sanctions to have that effect, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it likely. Maybe 50/50 or so?
That said, the success of the sanctions to date and the economic impact they’ve produced have been a pleasant surprise, so I may be underestimating things.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
1:44 pm
JAY,
Don’t disagree but it appears to me that based on past experience, the regime, not unlike Syria, could give a flip about its people…and that the only likely responses are revolution or some compromise by the government…I don’t see either coming from this but hope I am wrong..
Clearly attacking, at least by us, is unacceptable…if the Israelis’ decide to blow up suspected nuclear sites, who cares?
Don't Tread
October 2nd, 2012
1:45 pm
“In what way do you think that economic sanctions were ineffective in North Korea?”
Maybe because they still have nuclear weapons and are working on the missiles to deliver them?
St Simons
October 2nd, 2012
1:45 pm
fred, VIDALIA onions, its got to be vidalia onions
but doesn’t beat shrimp n grits with mrsstsimons magic sauce
that singer guy lives down here now, at Atlantic Beach, he’s an old
balding fat canadian, but his hot mommy wife is smokin. can’t
remember his name. his boat is nice. one hit record. go figure.
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
1:45 pm
In what way do you think that economic sanctions were ineffective in North Korea?
Um… The leader is still named Castro and you can still go to jail for talking bad about him. It’s still a communist human rights hellhole. Was that a serious question??
bob
October 2nd, 2012
1:46 pm
I thought Obama said he would have a little sit down with Ahmadinejad ? Or is that another carry over to ‘12 for his wish list, I mean ‘08 campaign promises
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
1:46 pm
Don’t Tread — “Maybe because they still have nuclear weapons and are working on the missiles to deliver them?”
As I explained to td, economic sanctions were not the method we used with North Korea.
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
1:46 pm
Sorry, I misread the question – N Korea would have pretty much the same answer as Cuba.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 2nd, 2012
1:47 pm
Castro is in N. Korea?
The things I learn on this blog….
Jay
October 2nd, 2012
1:47 pm
Stevie Ray, in terms of blowback, etc., I think an Israeli attack would cause at least as many problems for us as an attack in which we participated. In some ways it might even be worse. It would also be a lot less effective, as the Israelis know.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
1:47 pm
alittlecommonsense — “Um… The leader is still named Castro and you can still go to jail for talking bad about him. It’s still a communist human rights hellhole.”
North Korea’s leader isn’t named Castro. Look again.
“Was that a serious question??”
Yes, it was. Because, as I am now explaining for the third time on this thread, economic sanctions were not the method used to deal with North Korea.
Lee
October 2nd, 2012
1:48 pm
alittlecommonsense…..That is the plan by Obama, do nothing and then blame everything on Bush. It is great.
Thomas
October 2nd, 2012
1:49 pm
Great Jay- checker flag and pop the champagne
On another note:
The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee (FOMC) has made it official: After its latest two day meeting, it announced its goal to devalue the dollar by 33%.
So in this case the FOMC is the “world” and the US taxpayer is “Iran”. Very sinister.
Local news or silly little diatribes about how shameful romney is please. Oh and some travelin’ music.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda, Gangland Style!
October 2nd, 2012
1:49 pm
Can you please let us all know how many times in the past economic sanctions have worked to dissuade a nation from developing nuclear weapons? How did those sanctions work for Korea?
Hmmm good question!
Let me google that for you.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
1:49 pm
alittlecommonsense — “Sorry, I misread the question – N Korea would have pretty much the same answer as Cuba.”
Except that it wouldn’t be the same answer. We have and continue to use economic sanctions against Cuba. Whereas economic sanctions were *not* the method we used in dissuading North Korea from developing atomic/nuclear weapons.
Jm
October 2nd, 2012
1:50 pm
Good news
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
1:50 pm
I think it’s highly possible for sanctions to have that effect, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it likely. Maybe 50/50 or so?
Fair enough. I would say 50/50 is pretty optomistic based on sanctions effectiveness with other dictatorships. Dictators seem to have an endless capacity to allow suffering in their populations. The dictators always seem to still be able to live quite comfortably while the population starves. Still sanctions are a useful tool in some situations. They just have their limitations like any other tool.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
1:52 pm
BOB,
Good point about Obama’s (one of many) promise about sitting down with these folks..did he ever admit this was a promise based on ignorance?
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
1:53 pm
Joe Mama – You seem to think North Korea is no longer pursuing their nuclear ambitions. That’s news to me. Would you like to cite your references?
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
1:53 pm
SANCTIONS ARE WORKING!
really
they are working to make living miserable for the middle class of Iran………… thats all they are hurting……
the govt and elite in Iran are not hurting……… and there is no way to guage if it will stop their nuclear program
skipper
October 2nd, 2012
1:54 pm
Iran; a third-world cess-pool with a beady-eyed rat for a prime minister. Hopefully, sanctions will work. If not, let Israel make ‘em a sand box. If Israel had been left alone during the six-day war, chances are we would not have quite the problems we have today. Way to go, LBJ!
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
1:54 pm
thank god those sanctions against Castro and Cuba have been working
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
October 2nd, 2012
1:55 pm
JAY,
I think we should simply get out of the middle and let them decide between them…why on earth we feel the obligation to extent our brand of democracy across the world is beyond me…did the founders envision this? I think we all agree we have much more important security issues at home…say the deficit?
Mr_B
October 2nd, 2012
1:55 pm
“Like a totalitarian government really cares about what factory workers think…or anyone else, for that matter.”
I know this is a difficult idea for many here to grasp, but just because we don’t like a particular governmental structure does not make it a dictatorship or totalitarian. I don’t particularly care for the folks who are running Iran, and it it certainly not a western-style democracy, but there is a tolerated internal domestic opposition, and an opposition press operating in Iran today.
BTW, Ahmadinejad willl be removed next year: by the Iranian electoral process. He can’t run to succeed himself under Iranian law.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
1:57 pm
alittlecommonsense — “Joe Mama – You seem to think North Korea is no longer pursuing their nuclear ambitions.”
I neither said, thought nor implied any such thing. I simply pointed out that we didn’t use economic sanctions as our means of dissuading them from developing them.
“Would you like to cite your references?”
Perhaps you could first show us *your* references that claim we were using economic sanctions to dissuade the North Koreans from developing atomic/thermonuclear weapons.
For principles
October 2nd, 2012
1:57 pm
Expect blowback. 9-11 wasn’t because they hated our “freedom” – which thanks to Bush and Obama we now have a lot less of.
From Osama bin Laden – reasons for 9-11:
1. The sanctions against Iraq that led to 1.5 million deaths.
2. The stationing of troops on the holy land of the Arabian peninsula.
3. Our unilateral support for Israel in their conflicts with the arabs and the palestinians.
The reasons for the next attack are likely already written in blood all over the middle east. Sanctions do not work – unless blowback is your goal (and it has been so profitable for so many, one has to wonder).
Jay
October 2nd, 2012
2:00 pm
Joe Mama, I’d have to disagree. Economic sanctions ARE part of our response to North Korea’s nuke program, and on those occasions when NK seemed to make a deal to stop, a relaxation of those sanctions was part of why they said yes.
td
October 2nd, 2012
2:01 pm
ay
October 2nd, 2012
1:22 pm
“Sanctions played a role in each of those cases, td.”
Of coarse they did because all nations have always started with sanctions when attempting to force a nation not to take an action. Using that statement one can say that sanctions or the threat of sanctions are responsible for every good thing ever accomplished in the world.
My point is that sanctions alone have never deterred the development of nuclear weapons and there is no evidence that it has.
OBIWAN
October 2nd, 2012
2:02 pm
Stop the nation building baloney; bring all of our brave troop’s home. Once we figure out how to fix our borders, then we can help out the countries who request help…..
Get Real
October 2nd, 2012
2:02 pm
Interesting, I very much believe in diplomacy as opposed to military action but at the same time I am not Lord Chamberlain either. If the Iranian people rise up again only to be slaughtered “again” what will be our response? Personally, I do not beleive “Iwanajob” nor the Mullahs give a rat’s arse about the Iranian people.
I can only hope that Israel does not start glowing any time soon…
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
2:03 pm
Perhaps you could first show us *your* references that claim we were using economic sanctions to dissuade the North Koreans from developing atomic/thermonuclear weapons.
Really? Try wikipedia.
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
October 2nd, 2012
2:05 pm
Real results brought to you by …ROCK OBAMA….4 mo fo 44
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda, Gangman Style!
October 2nd, 2012
2:06 pm
They are working to make living miserable for the middle class of Iran………… thats all they are hurting……
the govt and elite in Iran are not hurting………
Sherman taught us about a hundred years ago – If you bring the horrors of war to the “common man” they will soon tire of it. The big wigs, as you say, won’t get tired because they are in their hideouts and palaces. but the common man who has to bleed and die while his family starves and suffers, will soon abandon the tenets of war for peace.
You make the middle class suffer, (as we’re doing right now under Bush’s Tax Cuts), when they get enough of suffering, they’ll make the government make changes.
TiredOfIt
October 2nd, 2012
2:07 pm
I can hear it tonight. Fox News; President Obama attacking wealthy …………………… Iranians
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
2:09 pm
Jay — “Joe Mama, I’d have to disagree. Economic sanctions ARE part of our response to North Korea’s nuke program”
Part, but a small part, Jay.
For most of the 90s and until 2002, we had been operating under Clinton’s Agreed Framework, in which we agreed to help the DPRK develop light-water nuclear reactors — and to provide them with food and fuel oil — in exchange for the suspension of their atomic weapons program. Providing them with nuclear reactors, food and fuel doesn’t strike me as being ‘economic sanctions.’
“and on those occasions when NK seemed to make a deal to stop, a relaxation of those sanctions was part of why they said yes.”
To which occasions do you refer, Jay? For all the hullabaloo about the development of WMDs, the North Koreans actually seemed to respond *constructively* to the Agreed Framework.
It should also be pointed out that the agreement broke down in late 2002 over unproven accusations that the North Koreans were cheating. As it turned out, our evidence was ambiguous and inconclusive, but the damage to the agreement was already done. With the Agreed Framework essentially trashed, it took North Korea under four years to perform a test (a fizzle, as it turned out).
I don’t think that the Agreed Framework could be characterized as “sanctions” at all.
Get Real
October 2nd, 2012
2:10 pm
You make the middle class suffer, (as we’re doing right now under Bush’s Tax Cuts), when they get enough of suffering, they’ll make the government make changes
Oh pleez, what a bunch of crap…
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
2:10 pm
alittlecommonsense — “Really? Try wikipedia.”
Really? Try looking at it yourself. I suggest you start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreed_Framework
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
2:11 pm
for principles
sometimes sanctions do work
saddam hussein did not get weapons of mass destruction………… so we know they can work
but IRAN is different and nuclear programs are different
see North Korea
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
2:13 pm
“Hey, Bookman…did Debbie Wasserman Schultz tell you to get out the information about Iran to make Obama look good or is it your idea”?
Hey Donovan did FOX News tell you to come in here and quote their propaganda verbatim? Polly want a cracker?
Welcome to the Occupation
October 2nd, 2012
2:18 pm
By the way, apropos of my nom de blog, dare I bring up a pesky little fact which is apparently getting swept under the rug here:
Occupation.
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
2:20 pm
The coalition of one Bushcons have no cred in terms of foreign policy.
None.
A blustering bunch of deadly (to American service personnel) swiftboating, shameless, torturing incompetents who had priorities other than military service and who embarrassed us on the world stage.
Unfit to lead.
And fortunately for our children, Flip and Eddie are not going to get the chance…
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
2:20 pm
debbie
how’d that middle class uprising in the green revolution to the 2009 elections work?
how is that middle class uprising thing doing in syria?
how is that middle class uprising thing doing in north korea?
how is that middle class uprising thing doing in cuba?
alittlecommonsense
October 2nd, 2012
2:21 pm
Joe Mama – As the argument that sanctions are having such a great effect in N. Korea, you linked to an agreement from 1994. In the first paragraph, the article states the agreement broke down in 2003.
Not real strong evidence. You have nonsense arguments, so I’m done with you. Goodbye.
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
2:22 pm
Jose if it doesn’t involved full scale ground wars that fill the pockets of the defense contractor hogs that need to be slopped it can’t be good foreign policy. Good foreign policy to a republican pays back their campaign contributors with fat no bid contracts and the purchase of the paraphernalia of war. Sanctions don’t pop that contractor hog’s bottom line.
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
2:27 pm
marisol
its funny how you describe republicans paying back their campaign contributors
can you admit that democrats do the same?
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
2:27 pm
Isn’t North Korea that country that keeps trying to scare the sheee….it out of everybody with their rockets that fall apart right after leaving the launchpad?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
2:27 pm
alittlecommonsense — “Joe Mama – As the argument that sanctions are having such a great effect in N. Korea,”
I didn’t say that “sanctions are having such a great effect in N. Korea.” That’s a position and an argument *you* dreamed up and ascibed to me.
My position is that economic sanctions *aren’t being used* in North Korea for the purpose of dissuading them from developing atomic/thermonuclear weapons. There *are* American economic sanctions in place against the DPRK, but almost every one of them dates from the 1950s. So unless you want to argue that we’ve been applying economic sanctions against the Norks for sixty-odd years — even before the Chinese had developed the bomb — then you go right ahead.
“you linked to an agreement from 1994. In the first paragraph, the article states the agreement broke down in 2003.”
You’re not reading. You need to read it closely. And not just the Wiki piece.
“Not real strong evidence.”
Said the person who still hasn’t provided *any* evidence that the US is using economic sanctions to dissuade the North Koreans from developing atomic/nuclear weapons. (giggling)
“You have nonsense arguments”
You have *no* argument. (laughing)
“so I’m done with you.”
Why am I not surprised?
“Goodbye.”
I didn’t think you’d provide your sources. Primarily because you haven’t *got* any. (laughing)
getalife
October 2nd, 2012
2:27 pm
The green revolution failed but if their economy does collapse the next revolution will probably work.
khomeni came to power by demonizing the West and most of their rhetoric is politics.
Not sure if the opposition will work with the West or keep demonizing the West.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
2:30 pm
correction to 2:27 above — should read as follows:
So unless you want to argue that we’ve been applying economic sanctions against the Norks to dissuade them from developing atomic/thermonuclear weapons for sixty-odd years — even before the Chinese had developed the bomb — then you go right ahead.
Brosephus™
October 2nd, 2012
2:31 pm
they are working to make living miserable for the middle class of Iran………… thats all they are hurting……
the govt and elite in Iran are not hurting………
Unless their government and elite are trading in a completely different currency, their money is being devalued just as much as their middle class. I would gather that, based on the reactions of the elite here, any currency devaluation there would have a more negative effect on those with more currency and love to have more currency than those in the middle class. That’s when looking at things through the lens of the “New American” values.
Add the fact that they can’t get access to foreign banking and such, and you pretty much have the recipe coming together for elite meltdown. We all know how those elite’s covet their money.
getalife
October 2nd, 2012
2:31 pm
“so I’m done with you. Goodbye.”
Surrendered and raised the white flag.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 2nd, 2012
2:33 pm
Jose: “how is that middle class uprising thing doing in syria?”
Well, it’s too early to tell, but the country is plunged into civil war.
By the way, you left off perhaps the most interesting case in your litany: China. Though what’s going on there is obviously not exactly a ‘middle class’ uprising, it certainly is a worker uprising, and it’s shaken the regime there in its foundations.
curious
October 2nd, 2012
2:35 pm
No sanctions; a lot of innocent people will be hurt.
Drop H-Bombs instead.
sheepdawg
October 2nd, 2012
2:36 pm
JHM- Please go live with your idol Noot Ginrich on the moon, we are growing very tired of your childish rants
Marisol
October 2nd, 2012
2:37 pm
Yes I can Jose. But I’d rather pay back theirs than see another war take the life of another of my brothers or any other American soldier in another unwinnable war that we will pay for in blood and tax dollars. Republicans and their war pig defense contractor buddies can take those no bid contracts and shove em up where the sun don’t shine.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 2nd, 2012
2:37 pm
http://libertasq.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/579836_10152125574130471_1453606100_n.jpg
sheepdawg
October 2nd, 2012
2:37 pm
redneck idiots sure do miss kyle, huh?
JamVet
October 2nd, 2012
2:38 pm
On the eve of the first presidential debate, the early autumn Republican reviews are in for Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, and they are not pretty.
In some states, candidates who share the Nov. 6 ballot with the former Massachusetts governor already have taken steps to establish independence from him. Party strategists predict more will follow, perhaps as soon as next week, unless Romney can dispel fears that he is headed for defeat despite the weak economy that works against President Barack Obama’s prospects.
Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, who headed the Republican Party when it won control of Congress in the 1990s, said disapprovingly over the weekend that Romney’s campaign has been focusing on polling, political process and campaign management. “It’s about everything but the issues.” he said.
A prominent party strategist, Matthew Dowd, says the Romney campaign was almost guilty of political malpractice over the summer and during the two political conventions. It “left the playing field totally to Barack Obama and the Obama campaign” and “‘basically set the tone for the final 60 days of this campaign, which put them behind after the conventions,” Dowd said. He and Barbour both spoke on ABC
Many of the Republicans who commented on the race declined to be identified by name, saying they were not authorized to speak publicly about strategy.
Willard Dukakis.
The “New Coke”…
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
2:39 pm
sheepdawg — “JHM- Please go live with your idol Noot Ginrich on the moon”
Better clear the fur from your eyes, sheepdawg. You’ve misread me as badly as alittlecommonsense did.
“we are growing very tired of your childish rants.”
Who’s this “we” you speak of? I don’t think you speak for anyone but yourself, Champ.
Jose
October 2nd, 2012
2:41 pm
getalife
khomeni came to power because the Shah tried to both modernize and westernize a population that did not want that at the time
if their economy collapses do you think they will blame their government or the WEST who took action to devalue their currency?