State-created charters sidestep public schools

That dynamic is an important reason to leave the authority to create charters with local officials who know their own communities, rather than with political appointees in Atlanta.

Well said. Let’s keep it away from political appointees with agendas focused on talking points, politics and everything else but fixing education and doing what is best for the educational system.

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To me the bottom line is parental choice, that should be given the highest priority, regardless of the facts you mentioned. Two of my adult children(both public school teachers, one HS, the other elementary) with children themselves, support the measure. Each different district in the state will have it’s own particular circumstances. This may sound foolish to you but some parents wish their children to excel while others just wish to get by. Parental choice means vote YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

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It is SAD that Jay Bookman, predictably, never highlights or analyzes the epic failure that is our Atlanta Public Schools. I think he is afraid to admit what he might find.

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Hmmm… looks like USMC does not know how to check the archives before he lies so early in the AM. What is it with the conned who somehow think that their lies cannot be fact checked.

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My wife is a teacher in the public school system, and my daughter attends a charter school, so educational questions are raised pretty frequently in our household. Since charter schools have been around for some time, I have always wondered why the state , or outside academics, haven’t studied if the move to charter schools doesn’t indicate that a lot of the state’s regulations are burdensome and ineffective. For example, for years my wife has come home complaining that state imposed the teaching of materials that were not properly sequenced. The beginning of the 2012 school year was so confusing that my wife’ and her colleagues were told to teach what they taught last year until the situation was r cleared up . Oh, and one final vent. The Republicans have vowed to shrink state government, and because education is the largest item in the state budget, achieving that goal would entail making the residents of Georgia dumber and less economically competitive

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You have to know that the situation cited in those counties probably reflect exactly what the supporters of the measure intend. I know, I know. They’re not racists, some of their best friends are black. Most states don’t seem capable of running the public education system. As important as education is to the country, it’s time for the federal government to nationalize the system. There is no valid reason that a kid who lives in Early County, GA cannot have access to the same public education as a kid who lives in Buffalo, NY. The importance of good teachers and good schools has not been realized by the radical right. If this isn’t corrected soon, all the negative issues we face as a country are sure to be enhanced.

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The cheating scandals have left me wondering if the NCAA is checking these Atlanta ,and where ever else they find this stuff, for “changed grades” in athletes playing college football. The reason I say this is the one thing that will wake the Georgia school systems and state legislature up to the reality of our lack of attention to minority education is when a bus pulls up to the University of Georgia and starts hauling players off that have cheated to get in. Why if it is done in gross mass should it matter to the NCAA, you have student athletes all over the country coming out of our tainted system that are illegal. Far be it to worry about the minority child not getting an education the state paid for, not even sure the white kids in this state are too concern about the education, but don’t cut off the supply of minority players qualifying for division one play in this state.

I notice even in the religious private schools up till this year have had freakiest athletic success for the length of time they have existed and number of students. It wouldn’t be long before minorities started playing ball for these charter schools. The only use this cracker barrel of state legislators ever had for educating minority students. When the NCAA says you got to educate them or they can’t play ball you will see a stronger effort from this state to educate. It is like the Penn State awaking, they got hit where they lived so now clean it up and put things where they should be at least for this year. Only when it got so embarrassing that they couldn’t lie any more about it did the problem start being fixed.

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Charter school = Private school funded with public money. If you want change in your local schools, get involved. Community involvement equates to positive change. If you do like the residents of the Grant Park’s charter school you’ll create yet another divide withing the community. As for USMC, it’s easy to place blame on a school system but as I stated earlier, get involved or get out.

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This whole state sanctioning of local taxpayer dollars reeks of redistribution.

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Jay, instead of whining about people wanting to yank their kids out of bad schools why not address the problem. You have many of these poor kids that have one or two non working parents that send their kids off to be baby sat by gov. Many kids are preparred for the first day of school, mine included. My spouse and I both work yet find time to prepare our children by using various methods that cost little or nothing other than time. I feel bad for the poorest kids but the lefts idea is to hold all kids back in the name of equality. Not all poor parents are slackers but quit with the status quo of penalizing all for the sake of a few. You want to blame lack of money when lack of parenting skills is the issue. quit confusing the two.

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“In many places, particularly in rural Georgia, charters attract students who would otherwise attend private schools. . . .

You then create a system in which committed parents and prepared students gravitate toward charters, stripping other schools of the raw materials from which successful schools are made. That dynamic is an important reason to leave the authority to create charters with local officials who know their own communities, rather than with political appointees in Atlanta.”
========================================

Usually, the “committed parents and prepared students” come from backgrounds of more advantage than those who are not in either of those categories. As a result, charter schools, particularly state authorized charter schools, will foster a more hierarchial society than an egalitarian one. Is this the kind of Georgia to which we want to return? That type of culture was quite prevalent during the Antebellum days and the Jim Crow days of Georgia’s history. Public schools, in which all students are served equally well through public taxes, help to make for a more equitable society, as Jefferson well knew. Then, of course, there is the motivation for profit, or using school children to make profit, which some charter schools will foster. I will share – in my subsequent posts – the politically motivated, profit agenda in attempting to ultimately privatize traditional public schools for profit.

VOTE NO to the proposed constitutional amendment to legitimize a State Commission for Charter Schools. Charter schools which are authorized by local school districts would more likely work with their local school districts to improve education for ALL of Georgia’s children than would the politically motivated state authorized schools, which would serve mainly the interests of the few.

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Lets play teh race card…but education all starts at home and parent responsibility. Of course the Federal Government that you so love, has made it a business to have kids…have one more and collect more money and we do not care who the daddy is…since Johnso’s Great Society the Federal Government supported by the NAACP have put the black race on a plantation unknown by my southern heritage and yet the black population seems to like it. Time for representatives as John Lewis, the NAACP and others to celan up their back yard and demand personal responsibility. As for charter Schools, it brings back parents into education and is a thorn in the side of the wonderful Teachers Union and Goone Government Officials who care nothing about the kids but about their power and money!

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mad-russian, charter schools are financed by tax money, not public money. If taxpayers get a product put out by the likes of Beverly Hall then taxpayers will find a better way.

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I cannot see giving more authority to the central government.

Oh, principles, schminciples…

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the lefts idea is to hold all kids back in the name of equality.

Straw man! Getcher straw man here!

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Good Fight – despite Ayn Rand’s irritating repetition of “Reality is Real”, what she really meant is “My Ideology Trumps Reality”. The modern conservative’s disdain for fact checking, actual data, and reality in general shows that they fully endorse the power of plausible-seeming ideology and the relentless promotion of false claims.

So point out USMC’s blatant lies all you want – he’ll never change his views. “Jay has never mentioned problems in the APS”. His ideology transcends the truth. He shares Karl Rove’s contempt for the “reality based community”. In fact, he’ll probably be just as smug as Jm about it – they just know Better than all you analytic fools.

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Rep. Jan Jones, a Republican in Georgia’s House of Representatives and a member of ALEC’s educational task force, sponsored the constitutional amendment resolution, HR 1162, in Georgia legislature. Yesterday morning, Bill Moyers broadcast a further expose on ALEC’s tentacles into state legislatures, in which ALEC’s agenda of the privatization of public institutions is primary, including public schools.

I urge every reader to take the time to view the video in the link below, which gives Moyer’s broadcast, through which he exposes further ALEC’s secretive methods of fulfilling their agenda of incorporating corporate interests, which are profit based interests, into public education.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/28/bill-moyers-alec-is-still-everywhere

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You know that the amendment is bad when the question is misleading:

“Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended to allow state or local approval of public charter schools upon the request of local communities?”

Two problems here:

* local approval is already in the constitution, so that’s a blatant red herring tossed into the text to make the average low-information voter think that these things would be illegal if you don’t vote for it.

* What are “local communities”? Are they businessmen from Indiana with a local attorney? Are they a majority of the community or one person?

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I also urge the reading audience to read the article by Diane Ravitch, entitled, “What you need to know about ALEC,” published May 3, 2012, in “Bridging Differences” from “Education Week.” Diane Ravitch is Research Professor of Education at New York University. Link for the article is below.

Here is a paragraph from that article:

“This outburst of anti-public school, anti-teacher legislation is no accident. It is the work of a shadowy group called the American Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC. Founded in 1973, ALEC is an organization of nearly 2,000 conservative state legislators. Its hallmark is promotion of privatization and corporate interests in every sphere, not only education, but healthcare, the environment, the economy, voting laws, public safety, etc.”

The article asks the question: “Who is on the education task force of ALEC?” Then, the article gives readers the link to find out the answer. From Georgia, the article lists the following members of Georgia’s legislature as members of ALEC’s education task force, as of July, 2011:

Rep. David Casas

Rep. Jan Jones

Rep. Mike Dudgeon

Rep. Howard Maxwell

Sen. Fran Millar

Sen. Greg Goggans

http://www.alternet.org/story/155257/what_you_need_to_know_about_alec

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You know that the amendment is bad when the question is misleading

I’ve yet to read any referendum question that WASN’T at least somewhat BS, myself.

My MO when in the voting booth is, if I haven’t researched the ballot measure first, I ain’t voting up or down, period. I suspect however that in the case of this one, most Georgia voters will see the magic words “charter skoolz” and say “I’m for it”.

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20 of Georgia’s state senators are members of ALEC, including Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers.
38 of Georgia’s state representatives are members of ALEC, including Rep. Jan Jones, the sponsor of the constitutional amendment bill.

The link, below, names all of Georgia’s legislators who are members of ALEC.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Georgia_ALEC_Politicians

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As everyone says – just follow the money. There you’ll find our corrupt Republican politicans who now ‘guide’ our state. Vote the bums out in November.

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Enter your comments here

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I wonder if the residents of DeKalb & Clayton would be interested in charter schools or do they wish to continue legalized parental abuse by sending their kids to the dumps known as public schools in their county???

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Prior to our society becoming great by LBJ, we had many poor people. Those times were differant and many of the poor did not accept flunking out of school or getting knocked up. Now we have our great society and flunking out of school and getting knocked up are a good part of the culture in the counties listed by Jay. Whether you want to admit it or not, many of the poor are lazy slackers that can’t make time to pull out a deck of flashcards to help their own kids, don’t expect people that do take the time to let their kids get dragged down. And many of you think the smart ones owe it to the rest, they do not !

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This is just another way for MOOCHING REPUBLICANS to steal my tax money to pay for their child’s private school.

DO LIKE I DO AND PAY FOR YOUR OWN PRIVATE SCHOOL YOU MOOCHING REPUBLICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Seconded and so passed.

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I wonder if the residents of DeKalb & Clayton would be interested in charter schools or do they wish to continue legalized parental abuse by sending their kids to the dumps known as public schools in their county?

False dichotomies! Step right up, getcher false dichotomies here!

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Fed Up

October 1st, 2012
8:09 am

Charter schools require parental involvement, and the first step is for the parent to APPLY to the school. After that, all children have an equal chance of getting in, if there is a lottery. Instead of looking at the percentage of white/black/etc students, they should look at the percentages of APPLICANTS.
++++++++++++++++++++

Uh huh. And who picks them?

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Aquagirl@7:48 – “Freeloading”, nice. Actually my grandchildren go to public schools and enjoy it. But their parents believe that if a charter school issue comes up, it should be their choice as parents to make, not some local school district.

Tom, if you don’t want your children referred to as freeloaders, don’t post their opinions secondhand and then run and hide behind their skirts.

Second, that “local school district” is run by an elected board because it disburses taxes collected from EVERYONE. If your children like my money, they have to live with my opinion. If they want to take my money and leave me no say in how it’s spent, they are freeloaders and they can keep their damn hands out of my wallet. If they don’t have enough money for a private school then they get what EVERYONE agrees on. This is not a tough concept, and watching people like you try to squirm around it is highly amusing.

I sound like a Republican? God, that is an insult since I consider many Republicans to be utter hypocrites like yourself, advocating smaller government and lower taxes unless they can raid somebody else’s pocket and do whatever they please with the haul.

If you or your children don’t like the local school district you can move. Acting like spoiled brats who want to take ALL the toys and go home is un-Republican, un-American, and selfish, greedy behavior.

Sorry you don’t like to admit that, most people don’t like being called out on their behavior and blather bumper-sticker nonsense as a reply. Truth hurts.

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“I wonder if the residents of DeKalb & Clayton would be interested in charter schools or do they wish to continue legalized parental abuse by sending their kids to the dumps known as public schools in their county?

False dichotomies! Step right up, getcher false dichotomies here!”

Yes – my bad. The schools in those two dumps of counties are doing just wonderfully; just ignore the fact that SACS is hot on their heels – again.

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“The problem today isn’t the school or the teachers, but lies with parents who are either absent or apathetic.”

The APS cheating scandal is parent-driven??? Interesting. I did not know that.

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Milton, sarcasm helps nothing. Sure, in a way the cheating scandal is partially the fault of the parents. The administration of the APS isn’t being held accountable by the parents.

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There is no right or wrong on this issue but I go with PARENTAL CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, as long as you can MOOCH MY MONEY you do………

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Charters are public schools although some are managed by private sector corporations. Some political analysts believe that the emphasis on authorizing state charter schools is a first step toward moving toward vouchers. Vouchers allow for the possibility that public tax money (meant for public, not private schools) could be used to support private schools, in which many operate for profit.

I do not support vouchers because their use would probably make even more prevalent – than in public charter schools – the use of school children for the profit purposes of profiteers seeking a perceived “educational industry” to tap into. Using the education of children for the profit purposes of profiteers would fundamentally change education as we have known it, which has been to serve the common good of all students and families, equally, through public taxes.

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Demographic data on Jay’s and Kyle’s posters might be as revealing…

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Greedy cons will never be satisfied.

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First, define the problem. Then seek a solution. If the problem is the teachers, fix it! If the problem is the curriculum, fix it! Charter schools are an ill-disguised effort to ignore the problem in the false hope that it will just go away.

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jbrown

October 1st, 2012
8:49 am

Once again an article is written that is difficult to distinguish between editorial comment and legitimate reporting.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Since you are simple there Skippy, let me simply explain this to you.

THIS IS AN OPINION BLOG

If you are too dense to know what that means ask Rush or Neal to explain it to you.

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Fred, 8:51,

Fred must have been turned down last night. Somebody have a headache, Fred?

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JB,

With all due respect, you’re doing your readers a disservice when you try to make the case that charter schools have a less diverse student body than public schools.

The GA Dept. of Education’s own report (Chartering in Georgia, 2010 – 2011) shows that charter schools in GA have higher percentages of Black students and essentially equal percentages of Latino students as do public schools.

See Figure 3, Page 8:

The percentage of students in GA charters who are not eligible for free or reduced priced lunches was 50.5% vs. 42.6% for all public students in GA.

See Figure 4, page 9

http://archives.gadoe.org/DMGetDocument.aspx/2010%202011%20Charter%20School%20Annual%20Report%20for%20Webposting%20Feb%2013.pdf?p=6CC6799F8C1371F63D9AED7D43D1CDA5FDDD168F996C546A7AC76D1CC23F574D&Type=D

Figures from the National Center for Education Statistics (US Dept of Education) also show highly diverse charter school enrollments over many years:

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/tables/table-cse-1.asp

Implying that charters are a ruse for elitist, less diverse schools just doesn’t hold water. Make a different argument if you don’t like charter schools.

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If charter schools are the solution to all that ails education, then it should be easy to convince your local school board to build those charter schools. They have the power to do it. Present the facts to them and see what happens. There are a lot of charter schools in Georgia so some people must have been able to make their case. What’s wrong with the reast of you? Poor debating skills perhaps.

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Maybe it will helpe prevent headlines like these !!!!

“Atlanta school cheating cases far from done”

“Cheating scandal has cost $1.7 million in one year”

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If the ballot measure was simply worded, “Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended to allow state or local approval of racially segregated schools upon the request of local communities?” would it pass in Georgia?

Considering citizens do not have to own up to their votes, I wouldn’t be surprised.

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I believe Po Boy has proven the case that our existing system for creating and funding charter schools works just fine.

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Poor Boy from Alabama,
8:56,

Bookman seems to have left out or ignored a few things. Does that surprise you?

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N-GA: “First, define the problem. Then seek a solution”

That would only work though if there were a genuine desire to address and work through real problems. But on closer inspection, it’s clear that this is simply not the case. What the pro-charter movement wants is not to solve problems but to shut down the effort to address them in any meaningful collective way in favor of a short-circuit, a washing of hands of the problem by pretending cynically that charters/privatization is a silver bullet. In fact, there’s no interest at all in solving problems other than that of setting up with public funds schools by the privileged and for the privileged.

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Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
8:46 am

I send my kids to private school and would continue to do so regardless of this amendment.

But do you think the education system in its current form is working?

For me as a society I think we need well educated citizens for us all to prosper more.

Look at the test scores in the counties from Jays piece.
Why do you not have a problem with those working at those schools who are mooching off of you?

Me personally I have to pay the taxes as is anyway.
I would at least want the money going to a school that is capable of passing all of it test. Notice not excelling but 50% is embarrassing.

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Listen you fruit. If you ever want to take a tour of some of these rural school systems you let me know. Because you would need someone like me to escort you.

Joseph has touched on his real reason for supporting state sanctioned use of local money to fund charter schools versus the current system.

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Fred – Did you really say MOOCHERS at least twice? Another lib poster said he did not like redistribution. It should be a fun day. Off to get coffee and read my lib AJC paper, later dudes. Mostly the sports section though!

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The sad thing is that, if the constitutional amendment is passed, increased amounts of public tax dollars – meant for all public schools equally – will more than likely be awarded to the growing numbers of state charter schools whille, at the same time, tax dollars to traditional public schools will be further decreased because the ideological agenda of most of Georgia’s Republican politicians is to steadily transform public ‘government,’ not-for-profit schools into schools that are based on the private sector’s free market’s profit incentive, imo.

School children must not be used for profit purposes. We must sustain and improve traditional public schools in Georgia, and we must be aware of attempts to dismantle Georgia’s traditional public schools for the profit purposes of profiteers.

Vote NO to the constitutional amendment.

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Fred:

“THIS IS AN OPINION BLOG”

Yes it is which is why it still amazes me why so many posters spend their time doing nothing but attacking other posters.

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VOTE NO – on all amendments to change the Constitution,

in ‘honor’ of all the strict constitushunalist cons

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“This once-free nation has turned out disrespectful debaucherous children who can barely function today.”

Now for a brief musical interlude

Every old crank in generations past said the same silly damn thing.

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Pay your fair share. Why are you against educating children?

I do pay my fair share, and am not opposed to public education.

What I’m against is freeloaders who want to take my tax dollars away from my elected representatives.

Quit mooching, cons. If some of y’all would read a book instead of the section devoted to boys playing with their balls you might develop some honesty.

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With Georgia’s etch-a-sketch
Constitution if the amendment passes, but
doesn’t work, change it
again.

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Meanwhile, Bozo and Mrs. Bozo send their two kids to Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC where the tab is at 70K and change/yr…….. even includes lunches. They were both products of private schools, Bozo having gone to Punahou School where my son graduated. I can attest that the tuition there is through the roof. Just part of mainstream society….. you know, the common man.

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JB @ 9:07

Only 10.3% of Fulton County students attend charter schools according to the report vs. 8.6% in APS, 6.0% in DeKalb, and 1.2% in Gwinnett. The state average is 5.7%. There’s no way the school districts you mentioned could skew the numbers the way you suggest.

The charter schools are less diverse, cherry pick their students, blah, blah, blah argument is simply wrong.

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“Only when it got so embarrassing that they couldn’t lie any more about it did the problem start being fixed.”

I’m still waiting for the wingnuts to be reach this point… problem is they have no shame and feel no compunction to be embarrassed by the choices they made in 2000 and 2004 (even though they won’t talk about those years…), and now they’re back screaming we should double down on those choices, when they should be embarrassed by them…

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This is clearly nothing that a tax cut cannot fix. Ask any con. They’ll tells ya. It’s true, dontcha know.

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Charter schools are prime example of crony capitalism at its best. One of the best solutions to the public schools issue appears to be to get parents involved. How will a single mother with 2 jobs also find time to get involved with the children’s school vs. a stay at home mom? Pull herself up by the boots strap and take responsibility!

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I’m still waiting for the wingnuts to be reach this point… problem is they have no shame and feel no compunction to be embarrassed by the choices they made in 2000

No kidding. You should have read the piece on Georgia’s “schizophrenic” education system that was written by the man who was the Chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, the ones who implemented our current system………..

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/09/26/georgia%E2%80%99s-schizophrenic-politics-of-education/

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Kayaker 71@ 9:01

Good point.

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“they do not have to follow all of the state requirements for education”

So why should the state fund them with taxpayers’ money?

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Finn @9:03
In general, or in one location? If you want to gloat or “spike the ball,” not interested. But if you have some ideas for helping prevent it everywhere (such as with the more vulnerable absentee voting), it might be a good topic one day. Jay, what do you think?

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So for the opponents of charter schools, the answer is easy – since poor, black students are trapped in public schools that can’t or won’t solve the problems of education, let’s trap ALL students in that area (unless they are wealthy enough to send their kids to privte school, or can home-school them).

If local school boards would look at charters and give them an equal chance, we wouldn’t need a state charter system.

And for those of you that say no profit should EVER be made educating students – so you would rather APS spend $14000 on a student rather than give a for-profit school $10,000 and have them do a better job?

The way it is now, the state charter schools will not take any local money away from local districts – as a matter of fact, they will GAIN money on a per-student basis. The only POSSIBLE (and this has never been proposed) downside would be IF the State decided to reduce local funding to offset expenditures to state charters.

If local schools had handled their problems – addressed discipline, attendance, social promotion (so teachers don’t have to ignore the on-target students to try to bring the 8th grader who has 2nd grade reading skills up to par) then you would never have seen this charter movement. You have dug your own grave.

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The words below are from a review of the just released film, “Won’t Back Down,” about the school reform “choice” movement across America. (I believe the timing of the release of this film, close to elections, is not coincidental.)

“Empowerment” is desirable, even ecstatic—’Be the change you want to see!’ Jamie crows to a throng of cheering parents—but democracy is the enemy. Getting rid of representative government and calling in a private entity to handle things, in our current Opposite Day political moment, represents a glorious triumph of people power. The ‘parent trigger’ invites parents to use their vote to give up their vote—that is, to be enormously powerful for one short moment of direct democracy, which they will use to dispose, in the long run, with the ‘public’ part of public school, and thus with any actual power over their children’s education.”

For the full review of the film, go to this link: http://dissentmagazine.org/online.php?id=631

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correction. the gotcha comments are coming from BOTH the right AND the left.

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To me what it sad in all of this is that people are willing to hand over their tax dollars to corporations for the hope of them educating their children. The problem with that is that the corporation only concern is about making a profit – period. As many conservatives have pointed out many times in the past that is the goal of a company. The company cannot give away things for free – all ‘costs’ are passed on to the consumer – we the taxpayer – so the bottom line is they want our money, that’s all. Nothing more and everything less.

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Marty Huggins’

October 1st, 2012
9:30 am

Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:18 am

Oh so big of you throw out some random accusations!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What random accusations?

I guess that you are unaware that the thing that makes charter schools different is that they do not have to follow all of the state requirements for education.

What? Those Republican drawn up State Requirements are the problem? And the solution is to have that same Republican controlled STATE GOV’T to fix it? I see, break the schools then steal the money from them so you can cherry pick who goes. I get it. Didn’t I meet you Friday at the tailgate party?

LOL Then you say something about schools 200 miles away while advocating a program administered at the State Capitol? you have ZERO logic . Quit while you are behind. You are already in a hole, quit digging. Really.

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We send our children to Charter School because of the poor quality of education given srudents in our so called public schools. Parents should have the right to send their children to the school of their choice. I do not like to be told how to raise my child or the school to attend. It is not your business. Parents want their child to have the best education possible for them to go forward in there life.

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And Bookman writes about how local officials know best… Laughable…

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/atlanta-school-cheating-cases-far-from-done/nSPYs/

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I know someone like that but I also know who is the exact opposite.

I’ll second PD here. While it may be fun for some to assume that home-schoolers are usually fundamentalist (emphasis on “mental”) Christian nutbags who don’t want their kids to be exposed to none-of-that Evolutionary theorizin’, I don’t, since I know a couple of families that do, who are a) so liberal they make me look like an RNC delegate, and b) decidedly Not Stupid.

[insert "aren't the two mutually exclusive?" snark here.]

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Virginia

October 1st, 2012
9:37 am

We send our children to Charter School because of the poor quality of education given srudents in our so called public schools. Parents should have the right to send their children to the school of their choice. I do not like to be told how to raise my child or the school to attend. It is not your business.
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As long as I’M paying for it, it sure as hell IS my business. Do like I do and pay for your own private school and quit being a moocher.

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Poor boy: Those NCES statistics are aggregated, are they not? Look at Jay’s specific statistics from yesterdays’s paper–Pataula Charter pulls from counties that have few white kids (2% for the county where the school is located, 1% for another of the counties,) yet 75% of the charter school kids are white! Only 54% of the Charter school students are on free lunch, yet the percentages from the counties it draws from are 76, 90, 83, and 92!

Lest this be considered an outlier (and no one knows out and out liers like the state sponsored charter school movement) at the Charter school in Statesgoro, 9% of the student body is black, yet 36 percent of the county’s students are black.

Even Ivy Prep, a school that pulls more black students than other schools, has half as many, by percentage, kids eligible for free lunch as Gwinnette generally.

Charters are unrepresentative from the get-go, because they require parents to find out about them, apply for them, and, frequently volunteer and provide transportation, and sometimes meals. They “sort” even before they have their lottery.

A good rule of thumb for voters in this state is vote NO, as any constitutional amendment seeks to absolve some people of their share of taxes or responsibility, and “reward” the politically connected. The convoluted language is a tell, also.

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Jay:

Charters operate on half the costs of public schools Jay. And fair much better. Saving tax payer money just don’t seem to be a thing libs can believe in???

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Mary Elizabeth- we must be aware of attempts to dismantle Georgia’s traditional public schools for the profit purposes of profiteers.

If private schools can do the same job better and for less money, who cares if someone is making a few dollars on the other side. It just proves what a wasteful bureaucracy the education system has become.

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“Fred must have been turned down last night. Somebody have a headache, Fred?”–Kayaker

… and obviously a serious case of Dick-DO! LOL!

( I would bet $100 that Fred probably sends his kids to private schools paid for by the In-Laws.)

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They smell it. This is the only way they survive into the 21st century,
by confusing & dumbing down another generation.
This all about curriculum control.

Things your child will learn in tax-funded-for-profit-charter-schools

http://wonkette.com/482983/fun-with-christianists-things-you-can-learn-in-a-christian-world-history-cultures-textbook-part-1

http://wonkette.com/483656/fun-with-christianists-things-you-can-learn-in-a-christian-world-history-cultures-textbook-part-2

there are 5 – VOTE NO

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Liberals: We’re all for choice as long you you are talking about abortions. Otherwise, do what the government tells you, because your too stupid to know what’s good for you…

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Otherwise, do what the government tells you, because your [sic] too stupid to know what’s good for you…

snort.

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Since 1970, Federal & State spending per student went from $4K to close to over $9k in 2009…I have not idea where they are today..

Georgia spending has increase by around 35-40% since 1994….

I can find no evidence of improved reading scores during this time..

Thought provoking..

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Fred, 9:39,

My white sheet can’t be showing, Fred. It’s still at the cleaners….. you know how that dried blood just makes it look so, well, you know, rednecky But we are encouraged, Fred, at the turnout for last weeks Klan meeting. We are thinking of changing to gasoline for cross burning since diesel has gotten so, you know, expensive. And then there is also the issues for the ropes. The last one or two just weren’t strong enough. Had to go get bigger ones but that worked out just fine.

Your asinine comments are just about as ridiculous as those listed above. Keep your racism to yourself, my friend. It just makes you look more foolish than usual.

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Athough I bet all these kids know who Jesus is from public schools…and they didn’t even need to read to learn this…

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” don’t like to be told “gimme your money and I’ll spend it as I damn well please.” That’s called MOOCHING, Virgina,”

Isn’t that just EXACTLY what public schools do? PAY YOUR TAXES, we will decide how to educate your kids, if you don’t like it- pay TWICE and send them to private schools. No allowances for sending MY TAX money to a charter where they will do a better job?

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It is a lot cheap to have a few ’special’ schools for the squeaky wheel parents than to raise all of the schools up to the same bar.

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“why are companies such as Walmart pouring so much money into
the campaign to get this admendment passed?”

duh – free future employee training, and they’ll be easier to push around
and take benefits away from too! – a win-win con paradise!

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B. O. White — “It’s time to try something new and bold.”

Here’s a thought. Read an effing BOOK. That’d be new and bold for you.

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As I understand it the new schools would be granted and funded by the state but would be ran and implemented by the local system if not the charter school itself.

You understand it wrong. The State has already failed in it’s constitutional duty to fund the schools shifting the burden to the local level. With this bill they propose to steal the money from the local level, funnel it to their buddies and then control it from a STATE level. As I have posted once already:

WE ALREADY HAVE THE OPTION AT A LOCAL LEVEL TO FORM CHARTER SCHOOLS. The problem is thta as it stands now they are in the control of LOCALS and not theMOOCHING REPUBLICANS that control our State Gov’t.

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Let us not forget that charter schools are already allowed here, folks. These pro-charter people (or other folks who are just uninformed) -this is about the MONEY. And all of you who will vote in favor think your little darling will get in…..ahem….they probably won’t. Instead of redirecting the money into some corporate vulture’s pockets, let’s put it to better use. Instead of spending all of their time on figuring out how to money grab, these legislators should spend more time figuring out a better way.

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One thing that hasn’t been addressed , why is companies such as Walmart pouring so much money into the campaign to get this admendment passed?

It’s CALLED “soft money” but it’s actually a bribe. They support the MOOCHING REPUBLICANS on this issue and then they get the votes they need when they want to steal land through eminent domain to build their stores.

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Peadawg @ 9:32

Damn good question, bro…

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“If private schools can do the same job better and for less money, who cares if someone is making a few dollars on the other side. It just proves what a wasteful bureaucracy the education system has become.”
=======================================

Charter schools, which are public schools, have not been proven to be better than traditional public schools. (Google the Stanford Study, in this regard.) There are some excellent traditional public schools and some that do need improvement. The same is true with charter schools – some are good and some are not so good. There will always be some form of public schools. All children will not be able to afford (transportation, etc.) to attend either charter schools or private schools. What will have been created – if we dismantle traditional public schools – will be a society of more pronounced “haves and have nots” than we presently have.

There has been a consistent and deliberate bombardment of propaganda against traditional public schools for several decades and that propaganda has stuck in the minds of many (as well as propaganda against the public sector in general). Please view the Bill Moyers’ broadcast that I linked within my first post on this thread, to become more aware of machinations of the politically powerful and wealthy in our nation, and what their stealthy intent has been to accomplish through inroads to state legislators, regarding the dismantling of traditional public education in our nation and in Georgia.

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Excerpt from World History and Cultures In Christian Perspective, 2nd Ed. (A Beka Book, 1997), a 10th-grade history text:

“Between the Fall of man and the Flood of Noah’s day…God allowed man to live by the dictates of his conscience, without the restraining force of government. Because man did not have the authority to put murderers to death during this time, acts of violence and passion grew to such dimensions that God mercifully sent the Flood to destroy all of mankind but one believing family. After the Flood … God established civil government by ordering the death penalty (capital punishment) for murder. In establishing this first foundational civil ordinance, God again taught man the sanctity of human life”

So… God actually created government… and you wingnuts are here railing against government, ergo you are railing against God… why do wingnuts hate God so much???

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if you don’t wanna pay taxes, renounce your citizenship & come here!

you’ll love it cons. its not so bad this time of year! plenty o gunz too

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“I send my daughter to a private school. I pay for it. If others want to send THEIR kids to private school then let THEM pay for it. This Charter School amendment is for folks who want to send their kids to private schools and have ME pay for them as well. Screw that.”

Tell us how you REALLY feel about it, Fred!

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Cons continue to try to deflect and divert attention from the issue with this legislation–the use of local funds for schools that are not subject to local control. All the other talk is just window dressing.

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If you are paying for your children to go to a private school why does it bother you so badly how the taxes you pay that your child will never see get spent?

Are you serious? How can I NOT care about my neighbors and their children? Our very future depends on the education of ALL children, not just my kids and your kids. This charter school amendment is a money grab pure and simple. Don’t fall for it.

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Tell us how you REALLY feel about it, Fred!

Fred has always been the shy type, lol.

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Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
10:05 am

You are aware that some of those same evil politicians you describe at the local level as well.

You are capable to understand that at that local level there are members who have interest in not wanting charter schools and thus vote down the measure each time. These same politicians get voted in year after year and the families calling for the charter school are in a severe voting minority. Thus they have no ability to form at the local level a charter.

Guess those folks should just move huh, regardless of if they can afford it or not?

You also keep up with the republican moocher this and that……..
What are your feelings of the democrat controlled governments that are proposing similar measures?

I just don’t get why everything has to be viewed from Democrat or Republican lenses?

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Aquagirl:

Yet you do condone welfare and free abortions…. That’s the liberal mindset… I want my tax dollars to go to a quality education. Obviously with cheating and scandals going on all over the state that’s not happening in public schools… Charter schools lay a foundation in which parents are involved along with teachers who actually care more about the children rather than their salaries…. Lib’s simply don’t get it. As Obama so eloquently put it back in 2009 after he won the elections. Republicans can come along for the ride but must ride in the back Here in the bright red state of Georgia libs can come along for the ride but must sit in the back…

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Hows that Libya scandal going Jay???

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How can I NOT care about my neighbors and their children?

Vote Republican and listen to talk radio.

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But why do you feel those without the means to send their children to private school should not have a choice when they are distracted in a school zone that cannot even do better than a 50% on a science test? Especially if they happen to live in a district whose politicians for whatever reason oppose charter schools.

Parental involvement is FREE. It doesn’t cost one friggin’ cent for parents to get involved in what’s going in their local schools. Instead of trying to throw money at the problem to fix it, why not throw the parents at the problem instead?

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You know, I am a parent whose child attends PCA in Calhoun County and I am very proud to be a part of their school family. My child has been bullied, harrassed and left behind in educational needs that she was loosing out on some great educational opportunities. I know statistics look good on paper but what about what’s right for the children. I will continue to support my right to choose my child’s education and place of education and I refuse to send my child to a public school that is majority ruled by African Americans in gangs and teachers who are scared to even stand up and teach. They are so restricted by “rules and standards” that discipline goes lacking or they are just that scared. PCA is a wonderful opportunity for kids to really succeed. We need to have these choices so our children are happy and prospering.

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Mountain Man — “Isn’t that just EXACTLY what public schools do? PAY YOUR TAXES, we will decide how to educate your kids, if you don’t like it- pay TWICE and send them to private schools.”

Nope. ALL property owners pay taxes to support the district’s public schools, whether you use them or not. If your kids don’t use them, too bad. No refund or voucher for you.

If y’all want to push this argument of ‘I don’t have a kid in public school so I should get a voucher’ argument, I’ll be pleased as punch to go there with you, as I’m childless. So if you get a break for not having kids in the district’s public schools, then I want one, too.

See how far y’all get funding your schools without childless couples like me and my wife getting taxed to support the schools YOU don’t want to support.

As far as I’m concerned, you can either pay for that private school for yourself, or we can change the funding structure so that only families with kids pay to support schools. Either way would be fine with me.

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I just don’t get why everything has to be viewed from Democrat or Republican lenses?

I don’t think everything should be as I’m an independent. THIS measure however is completely a Republican issue. They spent 10 years screwing up our education system with every one of their policies and now they want to steal all the local money, desperate the “right” kind of kids out and further handicap the rest.

It’s not right.

I have to go now. I’ll check back later. But you need to further educate yourself on this. I would suggest that, your protestations aside, you got you info and formed your opinion on this from a hard right perspective. They don’t give a damn about education, they want another vehicle by which they can plunder money that unless they get a constitutional amend on tthey can’t touch at this time.

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Marty Huggins’

October 1st, 2012
10:19 am

Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:53 am

Geez and you seem like such a nice a reasonable person here.
Can’t imagine why they wouldn’t want you with their daughter.
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Or why they wouldn’t see THEIR DAUGHTERS, DAUGHTER?

You are an asshat. Now you attack my wife.

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“How can I NOT care about my neighbors and their children? Vote Republican and listen to talk radio.”
–Aquagirl

I don’t care who you are. That is too funny, Aquagirl.

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BRO,

Great point about PTA participation which in my experience is the key metric to anticipate testing outcomes..unfortunately, the growing number of single parent homes results in more transcient students and an inability for the parent to have time to invest….

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USMC

October 1st, 2012
10:23 am

“…The issue is the STATE stealing the local money and decision making powers.”–Fred

I think Fred simply PARROTING his “Hate” Talk Radio Hero… RUSH LIMBAUGH!
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What’s funny about all this USMC is that on any other issue the righties would be saying the same thing lol. Hence in my first post I pointed out their hypocrisy.

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“I don’t think everything should be as I’m an independent.”

If Fred is an independent, then I must be an Obama-loving, tree-hugging left wing-nut.

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““I’m sorry. I’m sorry for helping to sell a narrative that was inherently false, that I knew, or should have known was false and did incalculable damage to the children of Atlanta.””

You will never here a lib say that; they will only state “I’m sorry that I was caught” (aka John Edwards) or it is a “right wing conspiracy” (aka Hillary)

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“What’s funny about all this USMC is that on any other issue the righties would be saying the same thing lol. Hence in my first post I pointed out their hypocrisy.”–Fred

I better hurry over with that $100 worth of beer that I owe you, Fred, before you POP!
(Swee+ w@ter 420 okay for you?)

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Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
10:24 am

Who attacked your wife?

I spoke to your behavior on here and how I could not contemplate how your in-laws didn’t like you and tried to break up you marriage.
I made no comment about your wife or your in-laws and their refusal to see their grandchildren.

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Bottom line. Representative Jan Jones sponsored HR 1162, the resolution that became the heavily politically divisive constitutional amendment. Jan Jones is also a member of ALEC’s educational task force. Look into the motivations and stealthy operations of ALEC. I have given many links on this thread in which readers can become more politcally aware and savvy both of ALEC and of what is happening politically in Georgia relative to education. Look toward movements, as much as to detail, to know what is happening and how those movements will effect every child and family in Georgia.

Why did state Superintendent of Schools Dr. John Barge come out against this constitutional amendment’s passage? Why has such intense opposition to his statement position been exercised, including a possible lawsuit? He has had to remove his opposition statement from his professional website because of that possible lawsuit (although he remains opposed to the amendment). There are heavily invested political reasons for this amendment’s passage (or not), and those reasons are more than likelly not all altruistic ones, imo.

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MiltonMan — “You will never here a lib say that; they will only state “I’m sorry that I was caught” (aka John Edwards) or it is a “right wing conspiracy” (aka Hillary)”

I eagerly await our cons’ demonstration of how mea culpas are supposed to be performed when all of you collectively apologize for the RNC voter registration fraud now being uncovered down in Florida.

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“…The issue is the STATE stealing the local money and decision making powers.”–Fred

RUSH LIMBAUGH couldn’t have said it better, Fred!

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“Through observation”

WHOSE observation? And in case you didn’t catch it “observation” is a form of testing.

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When what you are doing does not work, it is time to re-vamp. No company that has executives with kids is moving to Atlanta, and putting their kids in an “inner-city” school. The Board has proven that is incapable, and is run by imbeciles. Folks cry “racism” when the “minority” members of many school boards make white racists look like choir-boys…..voting rights does not mean voting intelligence. Sure, this will draw fire but see where this cluster of a school system is 5-10 years from now. Sure, there are a few on the outskirts that are ok, but thats about it. Folks gotta try something….

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Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
10:39 am

I agree the politicians should be removed from education.

I’m an extreme weirdo who thinks is is the responsibility of each parent to ensure their child’s education. Which is why I would sacra rice anything I had to so that my child will attend private schools. It is my duty as a parent and my responsibility to my children, a responsibility I agreed to when we brought them into this world.

However this is the only option being put forth currently. I have not seen any votes on the politicians giving up their power over education and handing it over to the educators.

The current system is a failure, by my standards and the standards they set for themselves.

That is why I would like to see more choice for parents with children in
Public schools. Hopefully with some choice and competition the money I pay anyway may go to a better use.

Is this the best solution? No but it is better than what we currently have, or at least different and with the overall failure of the education system I would say some type of change is needed.

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I don’t have time this morning to read all the post ( which I am glad to see) but it is my understanding that the total cost of these charter schools will be funded from the State. My question is where is the money coming from? This is especially important considering the vast amount of money removed from public education in the recent past and the fact that the state has never funded fully GBE the states formula for funding public education which by the way the constitution requires.

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Poor traditional public school performance in educating our young people speaks volumes in making arguments for State commissioned chartered public schools, and it it quite lame to pony up the dribble that only affluent white people are going to go there anyway. This is a plantation psychology that says minority students can’t get there from here- never.

Everything is changing. Technology, students’ ages, incomes, languages, backgrounds- the very definitions of primary and secondary education are changing. It only makes sense to diversify the supply of public schools to adapt to the necessities of these new changes.

Jay should point out that HB797 calls for intense coordination and collaboration between the Board of Education, the Department of Education, and the local education apparatus. It is not the new predatory system that should terrify school lunch minorities, as he implies. This argument is bogus.

White parents traditionally take a more active role in their children’s education, and so, even now, white students tend to wind up in better public schools, anyway.

Why are we drawing an invalid and vilifying distinction between a new system to solve previously intractable problems in public education with the system we have now which shows no abatement to from the road to our collective academic destruction?

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Folks, I agree that the proposal on the ballot is nothing more than a power grab, but charter schools are a band aid to hide that fact that the DOE and some of the local boards are dysfunctional . Real, bipartisan reform would focus on defining a high quality , properly sequenced curriculum and ensuring that local boards not only have the resources it takes to teach properly but also that those resources are properly optimized. It is quite a job because it requires pressure on both the state and local boards of education.

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JamVet
October 1st, 2012
10:53 am

Is there a proposal for these charter schools to be religious in nature?

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Here is what local voters did: School board refused to consider local charter. A year later, the three board members up for reelection (in an area where school board members serve for life) were soundly defeated (70-80% against them). The two other board members, as well as the three new ones, have been put on alert!

To be fair, there were two other significant “errors” the board made, thinking the people would “get over it” or “suck it up.” They were wrong.

Lesson in all this: The voters DO have power, and SACS can do all it can to scare the school board, but the voters expect the school board to represent THEIR wishes!

Would that ALL voters in Georgia get rid of those who are not representing the interests of THE PEOPLE, rather than the interests of the POWERFUL.

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Its time liberals quit trying to use the government to control everything. Now its charter schools run by state money. What will it be next. State owned garbage collection? Where is the world going.

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Does the proposal preclude religious schools, Marty?

In either case, I simply ask that the politicians stay out of my wallet…

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JAY,

I may have asked this before but where do magnet schools come into play in this discussion?

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shouldn’t the money that I pay for taxes go to help my children’s education?
_____

I don’t object for the money you pay for taxes go to help your children’s education. Just don’t want my tax money to.
Schools funded by state taxpayers money should be controlled and run by the state. I want my elected officials to have a say in how my tax money is used. I don’t want my tax money turned over to some private group to use for their own purposes.

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JAMVET,

I think we should eliminate tax exempt status for religious institutions. Yes, the politicians need to stay clear..

I know we can’t spend our way out of education problem although that seems to be the mantra in any election year…”i will improve education..” The only way to do this is to offer two tracks, college prep and vocational, with businesses getting tax credit for providing apprentichips to latter..works exeptionally well in Germany..

Also, I think comparing all of our kids outcomes to other countries with much less poverty etcetera is a ruse….the student populations of those countries pale in comparison to our task.

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FRED,

Funny how others are quick to label, or re-label one’s party affiliation soley based on a single topic..reflects lack of game and having nothing better to add..

Lying cons….lying DEMs…blah blah blah

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The money should follow the Child, plain and simple.

——–

No, its not that plain, and its not that simple. Depends on where the child goes. If the child goes to the Zoo or Six Flag, or to a private school, they the child uses his own money, or his parent’s. Not the taxpayers money. Not my money I pay as taxes.

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“Ahem

October 1st, 2012
10:22 am
Joseph

October 1st, 2012
10:18 am
Hows that Libya scandal going Jay???

ZING”

Y’all should know, “Libya scandal” is an inside-the-bubble thing, that exists only on Fox and talk-radio. In real life, there IS no “Libya scandal”.

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Make ALL schools Charter schools. The for-profits pushing this are for: PROFIT (surprise, surprise).

This is a backdoor approach to get government to pay for private schools.

When this happens in my county, I will refuse to pay.

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zeke — “EVERY CHILD SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO ESCAPE THE DREGS OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS!”

They already do.

What they don’t have is the FUNDING to do it, and that’s where parents come in.

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What Aquagirl said @ 11:17.

You go, girl.

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zeke

October 1st, 2012
11:16 am
___

How is the weather on Pluto this morning, by the way. That must be where you live.

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“Students suffer in low performing charter schools”
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/09/14-1

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Mountain Man

_______

If the amendment passes, that will be the law. I suppose you would be happy if an amendment installing communism passed by the people.

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COUNTIES AND CITIES DO NOT LIKE CHARTER SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY HIGHLIGHT THE INCOMPETENCE OF THOSE IN GOVT & LOCAL EDUCATION WHEN CHARTER SCHOOLS GET BETTER RESULTS

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Our very future depends on the education of ALL children, not just my kids and your kids.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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“Two choices here:

1) Continue to allow millions of students to receive a substandard education.

2) Support a mechanism to allow a good percentage (minority and non-minority) to break free from the above.”

Agree. This amendment ain’t it.

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“Observation is testing and I have no problem with testing”

So when you replied “observation” to my question about testing…you weren’t being completely truthful, were you? ”

“As one int the education field a teacher who is doing a good job doesn’t mind being observed”

But now you are saying to observe the TEACHERS. What is that going to tell you about the students?

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Isn’t that what we are voting on in November?

No. The vote in November is to divert money from elected to UNelected officials.

You run with that smashing idea, it’s true conservatism.

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Marty @ 10:38: However this is the only option being put forth currently. I have not seen any votes on the politicians giving up their power over education and handing it over to the educators.

You’ll never see a politician purposefully give up power. It will have to be taken from them.

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Stevie Ray @ 10:59

It’s all a matter of priorities and sacrifices. I bet those kids still had XBoxes and Jordans.

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Speaking as someone who has family in three of the four mentioned counties, I can tell you that things haven’t changed much in any of them in the past 50 years. The state charter school concept is just the latest convenient way to institutionalize racism without running afoul of the parts of the constitution that the framers never intended. Like all those amendments.

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Both of my kids attend charter schools this year, one a middle schooler and the other a high schooler. Both schools described a curriculum at the outset that have yet to materialize. Perhaps this is off-topic, and no, we didn’t send our kids to these schools to sidestep demographics, but rather, due to the class size and credentials of the teaching staff and administration. One wonders whether the enhanced curriculum was simply a way to obtain a charter.

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Cons are apparently in favor of taxation without representation. Why am I not surprised.

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““Two choices here:”

You left out the third and best choice: raise the standards of education in ALL schools, so ALL students have the best chance to get a good education. If the state is going to get involved in schooling at any level (and they are) MY preference is for them to allocate money to schools on a per student basis. Allowing for local funding, ALL schools should be getting the same amount of money PER STUDENT. There should not ever be schools that can’t afford the things that other schools, in more affluent areas, CAN afford.

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Doggone/GA:

You are forgetting an important point.

Those who would be tasked to accomplish your third choice are incompetent and incapable of doing so.

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Jose – That is the #1 reason, but locals try to find other excuses to justify their positions. I find it somewhat ironic that the same people on this blog who are concerned about where their tax-paying money in education goes, also wants everyone to pay their tax money to fund every free social program the federal govt can think up?

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Doggone/GA
October 1st, 2012
11:36 am

Again I a. Fine with testing.

I have problems and issues with Standardized Testing.

Nothing untruthful.

Do you understand the differences between a test and standardized testing?

As to a way to judge the students….
I feel that falls as a responsibility of the teacher and the school. It should also be shown thru an advancement of the skills from the start of a school year or from the end of the previous year.

And yes a baseline would need to be taken. However that does not need to be in the form of a standardized test. Could be an essay for older students for example.

I would argue that for such a strict enforcer of all things literal I would have expected to you know the difference between an assessment and a test.

A test is one singular event. Thus one can be against using test as the measurement and not be against test as used as a part of a much deeper assessment.

Currently we test, we do not assess.

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Mountain Man

Thanks.

Given many Republican candidates’ position on eliminating the Dept of Education, which issues rules for No Child Left Behind, competency testing, it struck me as a notable contradiction.

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The last thing I’ll say on this issue is two-fold (1) Parental Choice and (2) the money should follow the child(got that from earlier poster). In some areas, even when children give their best, they will never excel at academics. The teachers and schools are not the parents of these troubled kids, it must start at home and for some it will never happen. No matter how much money is fueled in to these public schools.

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Let’s state the obvious:

There are a LOT of privateers looking to get their hands on gummit money with this charter school bill.

On the other hand there are a LOT of PUBLICteers who could make Somali pirates proud with what they have wrought on the public schools.

ALEC and the Koch brothers vs. Beverly Hall, Crawford Lewis, the APS school board and the DCSS school board.

It’s like (not to put too coarse a point on it) last call at the bar at 3:00 am, and choosing between the girl who most likely is a transvestite and the girl who know isn’t a transvestite because no self respecting transvestite would allow himself to look SO unfeminine.

Better to go home alone…no wonder so many parents are HOME schooling.

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I will be voting Yes for the Charter Schools on November 6th! It is either pay the $500 out of county charges to send my children to a public school that is providing a better education or move. Or wait and see if Nathan Deal will remove ALL boards members like he did in Miller County and replaced them. Remember the School Boards AND the APPOINTED Superintendent makes ALL decisions in a TRADITIONAL public school. People look around us here in Southwest Georgia, test scores are at the bottom of the scores in Georgia, which by the way is ranked 47th in the nation!

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“You then create a system in which committed parents and prepared students gravitate toward charters, stripping other schools of the raw materials from which successful schools are made. ”

The traditional public school system already creates incentives for involved parents to choose neighborhoods with high performing schools. Those that can’t afford those neighborhoods probably can’t afford private or home schooling and ARE left behind now. At least with charter schools, all students have a chance to enroll in schools they prefer, chosen by lottery rather than zip code.

Your last comment implicitly states what you find most important. “How can traditional public schools succeed if we allow the students most likely to succeed, regardless of income, a choice?” Where is the outrage about traditional public schools that serve 50%? It doesn’t exist, because as long as all students without means are trapped in educational bureaucracies your goal is met.

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If you were in South GA and in this school district… and you want your kid to be the best he could be. I am sure you would NOT want to send him to a school full of kids having free lunch. Every parent knows kids with free lunch usually = bad school environment. So having the charter school lets you send your kid to a school where at least at a basic level the students and parents want their kids to learn. Why would anyone be against this?

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thanks for the article Jay. One little correction is that Pataula Charter is K-8th grade. I live in one of the 5 counties PCA serves and since it’s opening, our local private schools have lost so many children to them, that some are struggling to keep the doors open. I pay to send my kids to private school, but what about the kids that don’t have that luxury or don’t make the “cut” in the charters lottery system…..should we just leave them to perish in the public schools? No! I say we fix the problem. Just my two cents.

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VotingNo – mom:

You just suck it up and continue to pay taxes to fund failing public schools in the area. At least thats what Bookman wants….

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Daphne — “But if a certain percentage is supposedly designated for EACH CHILD why shouldn’t it go to that child?”

Because the money’s not designated FOR THE CHILD.

Money’s designated for schools based on headcount. There’s no account in little Johnny’s name or Jenny’s name.

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In the area where the Pataula charter is located maybe some of you would like to look at test scores compared to the other schools. Also our percentage is 70% that qualifies for free lunch. I personally cannot afford private school fees but I want a good education for my children. If this bill doesn’t pass my family and I will have to move. Also charter schools do not get local funding we get the same per student that the public schools get and have to make up the rest through fundraisers. So the charter school does not cost the taxpyers anymore than it does now.

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Also the local board where we live had so many problems it almost made it to where 12 years oe education didn’t matter for some, the state had the board on probation.

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JKL — “You just defeated the whole Democrat welfare-state program.”

Logic FAIL.

As I clearly pointed out, you take (for example) WIC and SNAP in the forms in which they come, or you don’t take them at all. Pointing out how public welfare programs work is hardly an argument against public welfare programs.

I swear, your attention span must be measured in milliseconds, because you seem to forget the first part of a sentence before you ever get to the period at the end ot it.

“It’s the government’s job to pick winners and losers because those evil charities might attach strings and actually expect you to change your bad behavior.”

HERP DE DERP

Dude, you need to become coherent.

“It’s much better to get $.30 from the government than $.97 from the United Way…”

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Mr. Bookman you believe PCA was established for wealthier Caucasian people
Who want their kids in a private school atmosphere without having to pay for it, but
Let the state fund it, the problem with this is they were paying for it before so they wouldn’t they continue to pay for it if they believe their kids were getting adequate education. And if parents cared about paying for their kids’ education why some many kids in college parents pay for that, they don’t look for a state funded college where they don’t have to fork out money, because their kids’ education matters to them.
In Randolph, Clay, and Calhoun area you will find struggling white and black people here, there are very few jobs in the area most people commute outside these counties just to have jobs to support their families that’s why PCA have free or reduce lunches black families are not the Only races that has a need for them or live in trouble neighbors. The 54% is below national level because at PCA they actually check the parents financial records which helps to give free or reduced lunches to only the kids that are eligible and these other public schools may not be as thorough since I don’t have to pay for my other kids who are in public high schools since PCA only go through eight grade.
I choose which grocery store or gas station I go to and which pediatrician my child sees
But I shouldn’t have any choice in where they go to school, because in our area its one public school per county and one private school my choices are a free public school
With poor results or a pay for them to attend private school with same results that just don’t seem fair if there isn’t any competition in the school system one school can monopolize so they have control over how they are ran, competition is healthy, this way they compete for students to attend their school so parents like me who supports their kids, and kids who work hard wouldn’t have to settle for schools who don’t support them causing the schools to step up their game. This Sounds like the America we know and love that’s why we have McDonald’s, Burger king, and ten or more different gas station chains so you choose the cleaner, safer, less expensive, and more convenient place to eat, gas up, and receive care.
Mr. Bookman I am an African American, my child is in school with white kids(Caucasians’), Mexicans’(Spanish American), and Indian(middle eastern’s) kids and
A melting pot wake and smell the new age buddy. More African American parents would send their kids if people like you wouldn’t make the think Chapter schools are full of racist people NOT! My child is loved AND supported by the students, teachers, and staff at PCA. Bottom line Mr. Bookman your article proves that the press isn’t concern with facts but how many CENTS you make for the despicable article that doesn’t make any common SENSE. WAY TO GO AJC FOR LETTING MR. BOOKMAN TAKE YOU BACK 400 YEARS!!!! YOU OWE AFRICAN AMERICANS’ AN APOLOGY
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Your entire comment, while informative, did not speak to the issue at hand (until your last sentence which just hangs there like a limp noodle). The ballot question is simple: Do you want the local school board to be THE LAST WORD on whether or not charter schools are approved. There are school boards and board members who think about money first and kids fifth! School boards who don’t want checks and balances sound to me like they are afraid of oversight. And the question becomes WHY. The State, if this amendment passes, will simply be an appeals board for these charter schools who failed to receive the local green light. Same criteria SHOULD net the same result. In those instances where it doesn’t, a closer look should be given. This amendment will allow that.

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Aye Object, 3:36 pm

“Do you want the local school board to be THE LAST WORD on whether or not charter schools are approved”
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There already exists, by law, a means of appealing the decision of local boards of education which might deny a given charter school’s application. That means of appeal is to the State Board of Education via the state Superintendent of Schools. This amendment is not necessary. This amendment is political, more than educational, imo.

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Someone going to comment on the connection between the GOP pushing privately run charter schools and the fact that the GOP nominee for president has over ten million dollars invested with his son in a profit making entity that runs private schools. Or is that just a coincidence? Yeah Mitt is going to run this country just like he ran a business- all personal profit.

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@ Joe Hussein Mama: tax money goes to schools FOR children. Without the children what is a school? That is a ridiculous comment. So we should just accept that our tax payer SCHOOLS are 48th in the nation even if that means our children are also 48th in the nation. Again, we see with the opposition, it isn’t abut the children. According to you they aren’t even in the picture. I am a conservative, but as long as the government pays for “schools” I expect to see my tax payer dollars are used responsibly 48th in the nation ain’t cutting it for my dollars.

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Jay, I usually agree with your columns. In this case I feel the need to disagree because I am the person who started PCA by calling all of the community to talk about it at an open forum in Fort Gaines, GA. I am white but I am also often classified as a liberal. The stories about the school systems in our area were awful. Children were being beaten up at school for being white or for doing well in school and “acting white”. I saw a need to create a safe place for all children and so asked the entire community to join us.

PCA is not a corporate school. It is a locally controlled school run by a principal who was a former teacher who went to school to become the principal. The board were concerned parents. At each community meeting we invited the entire community to join us. We intentionally went out of our way to include as many minorities as possible on our board and in the school.

A lot of disinformation was sent out by other school leaders to discredit the school. Then they filed a lawsuit to keep it from opening.

PCA did draw same children from the two private schools in the area but it also is drawing from children that would have been in the local public schools.

My goal was to provide a safe environment for all of the children of the region.

I was heavily involved in the local community and worked to make it better not just in the schools. I did go to the schools to help and started a scout troop, a church youth group and drove our church bus to pick up any and all children that I could. I also founded a ministry to help those who are less fortunate repair their homes and teaching people to cross racial and economic divides.

I also hired people when there were not other jobs available such as caring for dying church members, washing my car, cleaning my home, etc.

PCA was founded upon the idea that all children deserve a great education and they could not get it..

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ACS4PgDFA

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For the kids — “@ Joe Hussein Mama: tax money goes to schools FOR children. Without the children what is a school? That is a ridiculous comment.”

Sorry, no. You’re engaging in apologism and trying to advance the absolutely ridiculous proposition that the education of each child according to the PARENTS’ choice is the responsibility of the district’s taxpayers.

I’m sorry, but eff that notion and eff you. You can have access — for free — to the schools set up by the district in which you live, or you have pay the freight yourself. There’s absolutely no precedent for parental decisions to be backed FINANCIALLY by their taxpaying neighbors.

“So we should just accept that our tax payer SCHOOLS are 48th in the nation even if that means our children are also 48th in the nation.”

No, parents should get off their duffs and GET INVOLVED TO IMPROVE THEM instead of expecting all the improvement work should be done by others. If all you do is pay your taxes and send your kids to school, yet you’re dissatisfied with the job they’re doing, then you need to look at YOUR OWN LAZY SELF.

“Again, we see with the opposition, it isn’t abut the children. According to you they aren’t even in the picture.”

I neither said nor thought any such thing, and it’s quite dishonest of you to misrepresent my position in that way.

“I am a conservative, but as long as the government pays for “schools” I expect to see my tax payer dollars are used responsibly 48th in the nation ain’t cutting it for my dollars.”

And I expect to see you get off your lazy duff and GET INVOLVED in the schools instead of complaining about them from the sidelines. That’s the standard conservative complaint — I’m too busy to do anything constructive about it, but it is OTHER PEOPLE’S fault the schools suck so bad — not my fault.

GMAMFB.

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[...] Bookman explains how charter schools created under the state could become de facto private schools, leaving many of Georgia’s poorest children to fend for [...]

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[...] the press and interest groups are largely on the school boards’ side, bemoaning the potential loss of [...]

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I am really struggling stay in my seat while reading all of you posting against state sponsored Charter Schools when you OBVIOUSLY don’t have kids of your own who are in need of one! My family is fortunate to be able to afford private school, but choose not to because we believe in public education, and thought that as involved parents, we could be involved at our school enough to make a difference by rallying as a community and supporting our local public school. After three years of uphill marching, we realized that it was futile.
I’m dumbfounded when I read those of you saying that the Republicans are MOOCHING. Really? I have never voted republican in my life, and THIS is not about political parties. This is about our children and our nation’s future. We’ve been trusting the local government all along, and guess what? They’re stealing our money, giving friends and family jobs over qualified applicants, and BLATANTLY wasting my tax dollars and yours. So, REALLY?… WHO is mooching? Some people have come along who think they can do it better, requesting only the state portion of their funding (so as not to offend these FAILING local school boards), and you’re calling them moochers? Your tax dollars have been paying for a product that 47(!!!) other states are producing better than Georgia, and have been for many years. How long are you going to give them to get it right? If you have a child in the system, it WON’T HAPPEN IN TIME FOR YOUR CHILD. Without competition, what motive do they have to make improvements? Private schools are not competition. Every state and local dollar for your private school students goes to the local school where they SHOULD attend. Local School Boards LOVE it when you run away to private school!!! It is more money in their pockets! Every child who leaves to go to private school makes the public school mess that much bigger. At least public state sponsored Charter Schools will give EVERY child a chance for something better, and not just those who can afford it; and it will leave good families in public schools. How many stories do we have to hear about middle class folks enrolling in public school, only to be so disgusted after a year or two that they pull out and go private? Middle class Americans who really can’t even afford private school are now doing without other things so that their kids don’t have to go to a public school. If you haven’t spent any considerable amount of time in a public school lately, PLEASE don’t give us your unqualified opinion about this issue. You have no clue how bad it is. It has gone downhill VERY QUICKLY in the last 10 years. Should we elect new school boards to take care of everything for us? SURE! Every four years we get a chance to turn over the board. So if your Kindergartener can just hang in there until 4th grade, the new guys can come in and make big changes. If that new board doesn’t work out, no worries! When little Susie is in 8th grade we can try again. But wait, if the bad guys have more friends or more money, they win! By the next board turnover, Susie is graduating from high school! (Technically, the terms are staggered… which makes it WORSE because the newbies are always under the influence of the existing bureaucrats.)
The bottom line is this… When YOUR kid and your next door neighbor’s kids are the ones getting injured regularly at their neighborhood school because discipline is out of control, when they are in a classroom of 35 kids, when your 2nd grader comes home telling you stories that would make a sailor blush because they heard it from a classmate, when your African-American child comes home crying because if they want to do well in school, they are teased for “Trying to act white”, come tell me that you are OK with letting the people you’ve elected to the local school board take even two more years to elect someone new, then get their feet wet, then make sweeping policy changes, and push those changes all down to the local school level. I’m sure you won’t be OK with your child being exposed for the next four years to overworked and underpaid teachers, apathetic principals, and 31 classmates who need to learn but can’t because of the 4 in the room who have been so severely mistreated at home that they can’t function in a classroom without being disruptive. That’s a bad situation for even a motivated student. What about the ones with ADHD? It is hopeless.
So do I, as an involved parent, want to go to a school where there are other involved parents, and not parents who drop their kids off after starving them, showing their second graders their porn collection, speaking to them like they’re trash so that those kids come in and treat my kids like trash? You private school runaways can call me selfish for wanting to use my tax dollars for my kids to be in a good public school with other involved parents, but OH YES! I will vote YES!
Half of our very middle class neighborhood now attends a state-sponsored public Charter school, and if this vote doesn’t pass and our children’s chance to thrive is taken away, we’ll go private or become homeschoolers. There’s no way we’re trusting our local elected officials to take care of our kids again for another round of waiting and hoping and lobbying. OH! But guess what? The local school doesn’t care if we leave because they still get our money. And THAT, my friends, is why they’re against this Amendment. God forbid they have competition and have to make a real change to keep the money they’re lining their pockets with!
And one last thing… State Sponsored schools will not be making decisions for the schools outside of whether to allow them to open or not. They aren’t getting much control at all. Petitions will still go to the local school board for review, and if the petition is denied, the petitioners have the right to go a step further and see what the state experts think. They just say yes or no. Then in 5 years, when the charter is up for renewal, they review the Charter School’s performance and vote to let it continue or not. If it fails to meet its stated objectives, it doesn’t get renewed. What public school has EVER had to live up to that standard???

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I apologise, but, in my opinion, you commit an error. I can prove it. Write to me in PM.

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