State-created charters sidestep public schools
Will state-created charter schools offer poor and minority students a way out of troubled neighborhood schools, as claimed by advocates of a proposed constitutional amendment that will appear on the November ballot?
Or is there a danger that such schools — created over the protest of local officials — will become de facto private schools, drawing a disproportionate share of their student body from wealthier, more influential families, leaving others on the outside looking in?
As it turns out, the state Department of Education maintains a demographic database of every public school in the state, including state-sanctioned charter schools. (The most recent year in which such data is available is the 2010-11 school year). And the data tell us a lot.
Let’s look at Pataula Charter Academy, which serves students in kindergarten through grade six in a five-county area in southwest Georgia. That’s a poor region — in Early County, 76 percent of students are eligible for a free or reduced lunch. In Randolph County, it’s 90 percent; in Calhoun, 92 percent; in Baker, 83 percent and in Clay County, it’s 92 percent.
The public school systems in those counties are also overwhelmingly black. In Calhoun County, where Pataula Charter is located, just 2 percent of the student body in the local school system is white. In Clay County, it’s a mere 1 percent.
Yet in Pataula Charter, 75 percent of the student body is white. Moreover, the percentage of the Pataula student body eligible for free or reduced lunches (54 percent) is well below the regional average. The state classifies Pataula and its other state-created charter schools as “special” schools, and in Pataula’s case at least, that seems accurate for unintentional reasons.
In other state-created charter schools, the demographic discrepancy between their student body and that of the area they serve is less startling but still significant. At the Charter Conservatory for Arts and Technology in Statesboro, just 9 percent of the student body is black, compared to 36 percent in the surrounding county. The percentage of CCAT students eligible for free or reduced meals is significantly lower as well.
Even the exceptions are interesting. Ivy Prep in Gwinnett County boasts a student body that is considerably more African American than other public schools in Gwinnett. However, the percentage of Ivy Prep students eligible for free or reduced meals is barely half the percentage of the Gwinnett district as a whole.
Given that parental income is a strong indicator of student performance, it’s no surprise that such schools sometimes outperform other public schools.
In the interest of fairness, such statistics reflect challenges with charter schools in general, not just those created by the state. In many places, particularly in rural Georgia, charters attract students who would otherwise attend private schools. Because charters can require parents to volunteer as a condition of attendance, they draw families in which parental involvement — and the workplace and transportation flexibility needed to be parentally involved — are a given.
You then create a system in which committed parents and prepared students gravitate toward charters, stripping other schools of the raw materials from which successful schools are made. That dynamic is an important reason to leave the authority to create charters with local officials who know their own communities, rather than with political appointees in Atlanta.
– Jay Bookman
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356 comments Add your comment
Jay
October 1st, 2012
9:07 am
Poor Boy, I didn’t look at the demographics for charters in general, only those in state-created charters, and the numbers are as I state above.
However, I suspect that the numbers you cite are skewed because so many locally created charters are in largely black districts such as APS, DeKalb and Fulton (the whole system has gone charter there).
Mary Elizabeth
October 1st, 2012
9:08 am
The sad thing is that, if the constitutional amendment is passed, increased amounts of public tax dollars – meant for all public schools equally – will more than likely be awarded to the growing numbers of state charter schools whille, at the same time, tax dollars to traditional public schools will be further decreased because the ideological agenda of most of Georgia’s Republican politicians is to steadily transform public ‘government,’ not-for-profit schools into schools that are based on the private sector’s free market’s profit incentive, imo.
School children must not be used for profit purposes. We must sustain and improve traditional public schools in Georgia, and we must be aware of attempts to dismantle Georgia’s traditional public schools for the profit purposes of profiteers.
Vote NO to the constitutional amendment.
Bill Orvis White
October 1st, 2012
9:08 am
I prefer home schooling and vouchers for home school mothers, private schools and most of all, private religious schools. The public gov’t screwels have failed. This once-free nation has turned out disrespectful debaucherous children who can barely function today. The world laughs at us due to a weak-kneed “leader” with no character. It’s time to try something new and bold. Amen, Bill
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
October 1st, 2012
9:08 am
Fred:
“THIS IS AN OPINION BLOG”
Yes it is which is why it still amazes me why so many posters spend their time doing nothing but attacking other posters.
bob
October 1st, 2012
9:11 am
Fred, I don’t mooch your money but if a charter worked out to be the better way to go I would use it, after all, I pay taxes as well. Why should people be forced to pay education taxes when the education offered is not as good as I can find elsewhere. A coworker has the option of sending his kids to a school with such a high concentration of illegals the school calls itself a spanish immersion school and caters to the illegals, not the natives. Why shouldn’t his tax money go to a school that puts citizens above illegals ?
St Simons
October 1st, 2012
9:14 am
VOTE NO – on all amendments to change the Constitution,
in ‘honor’ of all the strict constitushunalist cons
Thomas
October 1st, 2012
9:14 am
Avoid the parental influence and mobility. Throw taxpayer money at it- it always works. Heard an “education scholar” on one of the networks say all we need to do is put the kids in school at the age of 2 or 3- when the brain is in “heavy development”. Brilliant.
No Child Left Behind
No (non) Worker Left Behind
No Crazy Town Nuclear State Left Behind
No Zero Taxpayer Left Behind
No Stray Animal Left Behind
come on people- there is nothing out there we can’t fix with more taxpayer $s
How about less blogging and more volunteering.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 1st, 2012
9:14 am
“This once-free nation has turned out disrespectful debaucherous children who can barely function today.”
Now for a brief musical interlude
Every old crank in generations past said the same silly damn thing.
TaxPayer
October 1st, 2012
9:15 am
Our local school system has come out opposing this amendment.
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
9:17 am
Pay your fair share. Why are you against educating children?
I do pay my fair share, and am not opposed to public education.
What I’m against is freeloaders who want to take my tax dollars away from my elected representatives.
Quit mooching, cons. If some of y’all would read a book instead of the section devoted to boys playing with their balls you might develop some honesty.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:18 am
Marty Huggins’
October 1st, 2012
9:04 am
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
8:46 am
I send my kids to private school and would continue to do so regardless of this amendment.
But do you think the education system in its current form is working?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Marty AND bob: If Charter schools “work’ then do in ALL schools what they do in Charter schools. It’s that simple.
I can’t believe you REPUBLICAN MOOCHERS are wanting MORE State Gov’t injected in the local level. What would the Tea Party think?
Oh my the hypocrisy.
barking frog
October 1st, 2012
9:18 am
With Georgia’s etch-a-sketch
Constitution if the amendment passes, but
doesn’t work, change it
again.
barking frog
October 1st, 2012
9:19 am
Enter your comments here
kayaker 71
October 1st, 2012
9:19 am
Meanwhile, Bozo and Mrs. Bozo send their two kids to Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC where the tab is at 70K and change/yr…….. even includes lunches. They were both products of private schools, Bozo having gone to Punahou School where my son graduated. I can attest that the tuition there is through the roof. Just part of mainstream society….. you know, the common man.
JamVet
October 1st, 2012
9:20 am
I know that this is not terribly fair, but the only family that I ever met who did home schooling was dumber than a bag of hammers.
Seriously.
If any of those kids were ever academic successes in higher education, I would be shocked…
And to Debbie’s point:
The
worldblog laughs atusyou due to a weak-kneed“leader”post with nocharactercontent.Poor Boy from Alabama
October 1st, 2012
9:22 am
JB @ 9:07
Only 10.3% of Fulton County students attend charter schools according to the report vs. 8.6% in APS, 6.0% in DeKalb, and 1.2% in Gwinnett. The state average is 5.7%. There’s no way the school districts you mentioned could skew the numbers the way you suggest.
The charter schools are less diverse, cherry pick their students, blah, blah, blah argument is simply wrong.
barking frog
October 1st, 2012
9:22 am
The Blog scolded me for
posting comments too
quickly. Using a cellphone
this is highly ironical.
Rightwing Troll
October 1st, 2012
9:23 am
“Only when it got so embarrassing that they couldn’t lie any more about it did the problem start being fixed.”
I’m still waiting for the wingnuts to be reach this point… problem is they have no shame and feel no compunction to be embarrassed by the choices they made in 2000 and 2004 (even though they won’t talk about those years…), and now they’re back screaming we should double down on those choices, when they should be embarrassed by them…
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:24 am
kayaker 71
October 1st, 2012
9:19 am
Meanwhile, Bozo and Mrs. Bozo send their two kids to Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC where the tab is at 70K and change/yr…….. even includes lunches. They were both products of private schools, Bozo having gone to Punahou School where my son graduated. I can attest that the tuition there is through the roof. Just part of mainstream society….. you know, the common man.
++++++++++++++++++
Yeah, the President SHOULD drop his kids into public schools where they and every other kid there can be prime targets for terrorists. I like thta idea.
As to the Punahu School? It’s about what I pay for my daughter. That’s not “through the roof.”
TaxPayer
October 1st, 2012
9:25 am
This is clearly nothing that a tax cut cannot fix. Ask any con. They’ll tells ya. It’s true, dontcha know.
Peadawg
October 1st, 2012
9:26 am
“I know that this is not terribly fair, but the only family that I ever met who did home schooling was dumber than a bag of hammers.”
Nope it’s not fair. I know someone like that but I also know who is the exact opposite.
King of Spades
October 1st, 2012
9:27 am
Charter schools are prime example of crony capitalism at its best. One of the best solutions to the public schools issue appears to be to get parents involved. How will a single mother with 2 jobs also find time to get involved with the children’s school vs. a stay at home mom? Pull herself up by the boots strap and take responsibility!
Welcome to the Occupation
October 1st, 2012
9:29 am
kayaker 71,
Yeah, no kidding. Sidwell is best in class, creme de la creme.
And you can bet that Rahm’s kids in Chicago have attended similarly elite schools.
So, the question arises: what do you think it says about our political and social system that these disparities exist?
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:29 am
I’m still waiting for the wingnuts to be reach this point… problem is they have no shame and feel no compunction to be embarrassed by the choices they made in 2000
No kidding. You should have read the piece on Georgia’s “schizophrenic” education system that was written by the man who was the Chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, the ones who implemented our current system………..
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/09/26/georgia%E2%80%99s-schizophrenic-politics-of-education/
Marty Huggins'
October 1st, 2012
9:30 am
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:18 am
Oh so big of you throw out some random accusations! Then make sure to bring up the tea party( cause I went to soooooo many events)
You look like such a logical adult when you use that distinctive debating style.
I see you called me a mom her again, forget the fact my kids both go to private schools. Danger facts always mess up your good points don’t they.
To address the only actual debatable non name calling portion of your post…..
“Charter schools “work’ then do in ALL schools what they do in Charter schools. It’s that simple.”
I guess that you are unaware that the thing that makes charter schools different is that they do not have to follow all of the state requirements for education. Meaning they are given the capability to teach to “THEIR” students and not use a formula for students 200 miles away. Students 200 miles away who have different lives and different experiences. Meaning their educational needs may be different than those of another area.
It also allow the schools to determine a disciplinary program that does not have to fear how to discipline a student based upon testing schedule.
However flexibility of the curriculum is not something on the ballot coming up is it?
Poor Boy from Alabama
October 1st, 2012
9:31 am
Kayaker 71@ 9:01
Good point.
ITS ALL BUSHHS FAULT
October 1st, 2012
9:32 am
Private ,Public Charter or Home it may not matter for the children of some of the posters on thiis blog its about genetics…losers….. OBAMA..2012
Peadawg
October 1st, 2012
9:32 am
“they do not have to follow all of the state requirements for education”
So why should the state fund them with taxpayers’ money?
ITS ALL BUSHHS FAULT
October 1st, 2012
9:32 am
W had the best education money could buy.
southpaw
October 1st, 2012
9:32 am
Finn @9:03
In general, or in one location? If you want to gloat or “spike the ball,” not interested. But if you have some ideas for helping prevent it everywhere (such as with the more vulnerable absentee voting), it might be a good topic one day. Jay, what do you think?
Diogenes
October 1st, 2012
9:34 am
All of these gotcha comments from the right and mask the real inadequacies of the school systems. several years ago, my wife transferred to a heavily Hispanic school because she wanted to make a real difference in kids lives. She came from a school that had enough resources to invest in technology, so she was alarmed when she found that her new school did not have resources to have rudimentary teaching technologies. She dedicated one full weekend to surfing you tube to find FREE teaching videos and then applied the videos to her kids over the course of the next year. The results ? The class that she inherited , which was substantially behind, placed a third of the class in accelerated classes, a third of the class in advanced classes, and only two that were marginally below stands by the end of the year . Y’all don’t want to discuss education reform at this level. You -Dems and Republicans- are too addicted to street fighting. How to structure real reform doesn’t give you the rush that partisan politics does.
Mountain Man
October 1st, 2012
9:34 am
So for the opponents of charter schools, the answer is easy – since poor, black students are trapped in public schools that can’t or won’t solve the problems of education, let’s trap ALL students in that area (unless they are wealthy enough to send their kids to privte school, or can home-school them).
If local school boards would look at charters and give them an equal chance, we wouldn’t need a state charter system.
And for those of you that say no profit should EVER be made educating students – so you would rather APS spend $14000 on a student rather than give a for-profit school $10,000 and have them do a better job?
The way it is now, the state charter schools will not take any local money away from local districts – as a matter of fact, they will GAIN money on a per-student basis. The only POSSIBLE (and this has never been proposed) downside would be IF the State decided to reduce local funding to offset expenditures to state charters.
If local schools had handled their problems – addressed discipline, attendance, social promotion (so teachers don’t have to ignore the on-target students to try to bring the 8th grader who has 2nd grade reading skills up to par) then you would never have seen this charter movement. You have dug your own grave.
MiltonMan
October 1st, 2012
9:34 am
“I know that this is not terribly fair, but the only family that I ever met who did home schooling was dumber than a bag of hammers.”
You only know one family who home schools – dude you need to get out more often. I know plenty and I would have too, from an unscientific standpoint, that is right down the middle – some very, very smart home-schooled kids; some not so bright. Neighbor to the left homeschooled & their child is a sophomore at Stanford.
Mary Elizabeth
October 1st, 2012
9:34 am
The words below are from a review of the just released film, “Won’t Back Down,” about the school reform “choice” movement across America. (I believe the timing of the release of this film, close to elections, is not coincidental.)
“Empowerment” is desirable, even ecstatic—’Be the change you want to see!’ Jamie crows to a throng of cheering parents—but democracy is the enemy. Getting rid of representative government and calling in a private entity to handle things, in our current Opposite Day political moment, represents a glorious triumph of people power. The ‘parent trigger’ invites parents to use their vote to give up their vote—that is, to be enormously powerful for one short moment of direct democracy, which they will use to dispose, in the long run, with the ‘public’ part of public school, and thus with any actual power over their children’s education.”
For the full review of the film, go to this link: http://dissentmagazine.org/online.php?id=631
kayaker 71
October 1st, 2012
9:35 am
Fred, 9:24,
The tuition for the 2011/2012 school year at Punahou is 19K and change. That’s not “through the roof”?. Are you talking about the same Punahou in Honolulu? And Bozo is tooting his horn about how much he resembles the “common man” and how Romney is so “out of touch”. If Bozo really believed in that common man crap, he would drop his kids at the nearest public school to, you know, “mingle” with the children of the common man. They could learn the latest trends about concealed carry and where to score some hits from the local talent. Might even meet someone from the hood that they could invite over for a sleepover at the WH.
Diogenes
October 1st, 2012
9:35 am
correction. the gotcha comments are coming from BOTH the right AND the left.
Marty Huggins'
October 1st, 2012
9:36 am
Mom her should have been moocher in my 9:30.
I know how that sort of thing gets focused on here.
Fly-On-The-Wall
October 1st, 2012
9:36 am
To me what it sad in all of this is that people are willing to hand over their tax dollars to corporations for the hope of them educating their children. The problem with that is that the corporation only concern is about making a profit – period. As many conservatives have pointed out many times in the past that is the goal of a company. The company cannot give away things for free – all ‘costs’ are passed on to the consumer – we the taxpayer – so the bottom line is they want our money, that’s all. Nothing more and everything less.
St Simons
October 1st, 2012
9:36 am
sidestep – more like end run
this is an end run around the public system curriculum.
The cons have lost in the marketplace of academia & ideas
So they want to control the curriculum THIS way.
If they can’t teach em jaysus rode on the dinosaur in public schools,
well, then they’ll just do like they do out here in life –
and that’s to create their own little world and just live in it.
oh, and they want YOU to pay for it with tax dollars,
that’s the cherry on top.
VOTE NO to change the Constitution
VOTE NO to anudder big gubmint intervention
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:37 am
Marty Huggins’
October 1st, 2012
9:30 am
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:18 am
Oh so big of you throw out some random accusations!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What random accusations?
I guess that you are unaware that the thing that makes charter schools different is that they do not have to follow all of the state requirements for education.
What? Those Republican drawn up State Requirements are the problem? And the solution is to have that same Republican controlled STATE GOV’T to fix it? I see, break the schools then steal the money from them so you can cherry pick who goes. I get it. Didn’t I meet you Friday at the tailgate party?
LOL Then you say something about schools 200 miles away while advocating a program administered at the State Capitol? you have ZERO logic . Quit while you are behind. You are already in a hole, quit digging. Really.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 1st, 2012
9:37 am
Anybody care to address the BIPARTISAN nature of this problem?
Anybody?
Or does that kind of violate the basic unspoken rule of this forum, that everyone has to pretend that 100% of our problems can be reduced to a question of Democrats vs Republicans?
Virginia
October 1st, 2012
9:37 am
We send our children to Charter School because of the poor quality of education given srudents in our so called public schools. Parents should have the right to send their children to the school of their choice. I do not like to be told how to raise my child or the school to attend. It is not your business. Parents want their child to have the best education possible for them to go forward in there life.
Mountain Man
October 1st, 2012
9:38 am
“Charter schools “work’ then do in ALL schools what they do in Charter schools. It’s that simple.”
That is what I have been advocating all along!!!!!!
But public schools WON’T.
They WON’T address discipline, attendance, or social promotion. They WON’T stand up to parental pressure when raving parents come to the school about their “precious baby”. They WON’T track kids into different skill levels so that teachers have to teach all different levels!
Joseph
October 1st, 2012
9:38 am
And Bookman writes about how local officials know best… Laughable…
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/atlanta-school-cheating-cases-far-from-done/nSPYs/
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:38 am
kayaker 71
October 1st, 2012
9:35 am
Fred, 9:24,
The tuition for the 2011/2012 school year at Punahou is 19K and change. That’s not “through the roof”?. Are you talking about the same Punahou in Honolulu?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m talking about THIS Punahou. http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=1793
Jay
October 1st, 2012
9:39 am
To those who raise the example of Sidwell and other expensive private schools: Apparently, more money DOES make a difference, huh?
And should I assume that you now support spending the two three or even four times as much on taxpayer supported schools?
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:39 am
They could learn the latest trends about concealed carry and where to score some hits from the local talent. Might even meet someone from the hood that they could invite over for a sleepover at the WH.
Your white sheet is showing.
stands for decibels
October 1st, 2012
9:40 am
I know someone like that but I also know who is the exact opposite.
I’ll second PD here. While it may be fun for some to assume that home-schoolers are usually fundamentalist (emphasis on “mental”) Christian nutbags who don’t want their kids to be exposed to none-of-that Evolutionary theorizin’, I don’t, since I know a couple of families that do, who are a) so liberal they make me look like an RNC delegate, and b) decidedly Not Stupid.
[insert "aren't the two mutually exclusive?" snark here.]
Diogenes
October 1st, 2012
9:41 am
Welcome to the Occupation. Anybody care to address the BIPARTISAN nature of this problem?
thank you
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:42 am
Virginia
October 1st, 2012
9:37 am
We send our children to Charter School because of the poor quality of education given srudents in our so called public schools. Parents should have the right to send their children to the school of their choice. I do not like to be told how to raise my child or the school to attend. It is not your business.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
As long as I’M paying for it, it sure as hell IS my business. Do like I do and pay for your own private school and quit being a moocher.
Marty Huggins'
October 1st, 2012
9:42 am
Peadawg
October 1st, 2012
9:32 am
Because the students of the school have parents or guardians who do pay taxes.
Also I usually like my tax dollars to be spent in the best fashion possible with school or any other service provided by the government.
Seems like the money going to public school is not doing as much as it could be in a charter school with more local interest and culture involved in the learning process.
I guess to me it’s about results and 50% is simply unacceptable to me.
Why do you think schools grading around 50% for multiple years should be getting tax money?
For government waste much?
catlady
October 1st, 2012
9:44 am
Poor boy: Those NCES statistics are aggregated, are they not? Look at Jay’s specific statistics from yesterdays’s paper–Pataula Charter pulls from counties that have few white kids (2% for the county where the school is located, 1% for another of the counties,) yet 75% of the charter school kids are white! Only 54% of the Charter school students are on free lunch, yet the percentages from the counties it draws from are 76, 90, 83, and 92!
Lest this be considered an outlier (and no one knows out and out liers like the state sponsored charter school movement) at the Charter school in Statesgoro, 9% of the student body is black, yet 36 percent of the county’s students are black.
Even Ivy Prep, a school that pulls more black students than other schools, has half as many, by percentage, kids eligible for free lunch as Gwinnette generally.
Charters are unrepresentative from the get-go, because they require parents to find out about them, apply for them, and, frequently volunteer and provide transportation, and sometimes meals. They “sort” even before they have their lottery.
A good rule of thumb for voters in this state is vote NO, as any constitutional amendment seeks to absolve some people of their share of taxes or responsibility, and “reward” the politically connected. The convoluted language is a tell, also.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:45 am
Welcome to the Occupation
October 1st, 2012
9:37 am
Anybody care to address the BIPARTISAN nature of this problem?
++++++++++++++++++++++
What bipartisan nature? This is a wholly REPUBLICAN MOOCHER idea. They put it on their primary ballot.
Joseph
October 1st, 2012
9:46 am
Jay:
Charters operate on half the costs of public schools Jay. And fair much better. Saving tax payer money just don’t seem to be a thing libs can believe in???
kayaker 71
October 1st, 2012
9:46 am
Welcome, 9:29,
The whole thing is a hypocritical scam. Democrats rant on about how evil those rich people, elite Republicans are while Bozo sends his kids to a school that charges 70K for both of them to attend. Diane Sawyer berates “the wealthy Republicans” on her broadcast when she makes 14M/yr. Some Democratic sports figure can make gazillions of dollars/ yr but that evil Republican business man who makes a few hundred grand is not”paying his fair share”. The limousine liberals are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the political scene. Makes me sick.
JKL2
October 1st, 2012
9:48 am
Mary Elizabeth- we must be aware of attempts to dismantle Georgia’s traditional public schools for the profit purposes of profiteers.
If private schools can do the same job better and for less money, who cares if someone is making a few dollars on the other side. It just proves what a wasteful bureaucracy the education system has become.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:48 am
Seems like the money going to public school is not doing as much as it could be in a charter school with more local interest and culture involved in the learning process.
Ah Marty, but that ISN’T what we are talking about here. WE are talking about the REPUBLICAN MOOCHER Constitutional amendment that is on the ballot thta takes control AWAY from the local level and gives it to the state.
WE ALREADY HAVE THE OPTION AT A LOCAL LEVEL TO FORM CHARTER SCHOOLS
This is why talking to you brain washed talk radio listening types is so difficult. You follow party scripts even when it’s obvious that you haven’t bothered to read them………..
USMC
October 1st, 2012
9:49 am
“Fred must have been turned down last night. Somebody have a headache, Fred?”–Kayaker
… and obviously a serious case of Dick-DO! LOL!
( I would bet $100 that Fred probably sends his kids to private schools paid for by the In-Laws.)
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:50 am
A good rule of thumb for voters in this state is vote NO, as any constitutional amendment seeks to absolve some people of their share of taxes or responsibility, and “reward” the politically connected. The convoluted language is a tell, also.
Spot on catlady. Notice she didn’t specify a party lol as it holds true for both parties. I’ve never seen it summed up so simply and truthfully catlady. Good job.
St Simons
October 1st, 2012
9:51 am
They smell it. This is the only way they survive into the 21st century,
by confusing & dumbing down another generation.
This all about curriculum control.
Things your child will learn in tax-funded-for-profit-charter-schools
http://wonkette.com/482983/fun-with-christianists-things-you-can-learn-in-a-christian-world-history-cultures-textbook-part-1
http://wonkette.com/483656/fun-with-christianists-things-you-can-learn-in-a-christian-world-history-cultures-textbook-part-2
there are 5 – VOTE NO
stands for decibels
October 1st, 2012
9:51 am
Lest this be considered an outlier (and no one knows out and out liers like the state sponsored charter school movement)
this.
JKL2
October 1st, 2012
9:52 am
Liberals: We’re all for choice as long you you are talking about abortions. Otherwise, do what the government tells you, because your too stupid to know what’s good for you…
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:53 am
I would bet $100 that Fred probably sends his kids to private schools paid for by the In-Laws.
When and where can I collect that Ben Franklin? My FIL died last year of prostate cancer. At the time of his death my daughter was 9 years old. He (they) never ONCE called and asked to see my daughter. They never ONCE called to take her to the zoo, the circus, to come over and spend the night, to do ANYTHING.
The only thing that saddens me about his death is that his wife hasn’t followed yet. They have spent 20 years trying to break up my marriage.
stands for decibels
October 1st, 2012
9:54 am
Otherwise, do what the government tells you, because your [sic] too stupid to know what’s good for you…
snort.
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
9:54 am
Parents should have the right to send their children to the school of their choice. I do not like to be told how to raise my child or the school to attend. It is not your business.
Well, Virginia, if it isn’t my business, then why are you wanting my tax dollars?
I don’t like to be told “gimme your money and I’ll spend it as I damn well please.” That’s called MOOCHING, Virgina, and I taught my children not to engage in that sort of behavior. Sorry your household has a different standard.
If you want to choose a school that will reinforce your freeloading ways please do it on your dime. I don’t condone that $#!^.
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
October 1st, 2012
9:56 am
Since 1970, Federal & State spending per student went from $4K to close to over $9k in 2009…I have not idea where they are today..
Georgia spending has increase by around 35-40% since 1994….
I can find no evidence of improved reading scores during this time..
Thought provoking..
Marty Huggins'
October 1st, 2012
9:56 am
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:37 am
Well let’s go in order 1st here is your accusation.
Seems you are calling me a Republican ( not true) and a moocher ( not true either I send my kid to private school just like you)
“I can’t believe you REPUBLICAN MOOCHERS are wanting MORE State Gov’t injected in the local level. What would the Tea Party think?”
But let me guess that was not to me, it was a generalization. Even though you bothered to quote befor hand and address your post to me and another poster. But THAT part was not an accusation huh?
2nd-
This is not my ideal solution, I apologize if you jumped to that. Inclusion and prescribed it to me. This is what is up as an option on the next ballot. Therefore I do think it is better than the current system. Is it he ideal system? No I don’t think it is the best system. But that is why I send my children to a private school as I don’t think the government can do the best job of educating our children.
3rd-
As I understand it the new schools would be granted and funded by the state but would be ran and implemented by the local system if not the charter school itself. The Charter schools would be in charge of their own curriculum, books while they would NOT be held to a set of standards based off of standardized test regulated by those 200 miles away.
kayaker 71
October 1st, 2012
9:57 am
Fred, 9:39,
My white sheet can’t be showing, Fred. It’s still at the cleaners….. you know how that dried blood just makes it look so, well, you know, rednecky But we are encouraged, Fred, at the turnout for last weeks Klan meeting. We are thinking of changing to gasoline for cross burning since diesel has gotten so, you know, expensive. And then there is also the issues for the ropes. The last one or two just weren’t strong enough. Had to go get bigger ones but that worked out just fine.
Your asinine comments are just about as ridiculous as those listed above. Keep your racism to yourself, my friend. It just makes you look more foolish than usual.
larry
October 1st, 2012
9:57 am
One thing that hasn’t been addressed , why is companies such as Walmart pouring so much money into the campaign to get this admendment passed?
I mean 1.7million? Do they want to start operating charter schools?
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
October 1st, 2012
9:59 am
Athough I bet all these kids know who Jesus is from public schools…and they didn’t even need to read to learn this…
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
10:00 am
since Johnso’s Great Society the Federal Government supported by the NAACP have put the black race on a plantation unknown by my southern heritage and yet the black population seems to like it.
Somebody will post crap like this one minute, and then will turn around and say that Liberals pull the race card. That’s why no meaningful discussion of anything ever happens. Put down the rhetoric for once and talk like a normal person.
Mountain Man
October 1st, 2012
10:00 am
” don’t like to be told “gimme your money and I’ll spend it as I damn well please.” That’s called MOOCHING, Virgina,”
Isn’t that just EXACTLY what public schools do? PAY YOUR TAXES, we will decide how to educate your kids, if you don’t like it- pay TWICE and send them to private schools. No allowances for sending MY TAX money to a charter where they will do a better job?
Diogenes
October 1st, 2012
10:01 am
Mountain Man:you raise very valid issues. A good public school system requires effective leadership at the superintendent level and an organizational structure that does not filter out problems and innovations. Keep an eye on the new guy at FULCO. He cleaned out the centralized bureaucracy and is in the process of implementing a very , very interesting bureaucratic structure that may , just may, usher in some real accountability for teachers and principals and helps the kids in the schools.
Scott Fresno
October 1st, 2012
10:02 am
It is a lot cheap to have a few ’special’ schools for the squeaky wheel parents than to raise all of the schools up to the same bar.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
10:03 am
Tom — “Fred – Did you really say MOOCHERS at least twice? Another lib poster said he did not like redistribution.”
You completely missed the point, but that’s not surprising.
St Simons
October 1st, 2012
10:04 am
“why are companies such as Walmart pouring so much money into
the campaign to get this admendment passed?”
duh – free future employee training, and they’ll be easier to push around
and take benefits away from too! – a win-win con paradise!
Jose
October 1st, 2012
10:04 am
SURVEY
ask public school teachers where they send their kids to school?
public
charter
private
then lets have a discussion
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
10:05 am
B. O. White — “It’s time to try something new and bold.”
Here’s a thought. Read an effing BOOK. That’d be new and bold for you.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 1st, 2012
10:05 am
Fred: “What bipartisan nature? This is a wholly REPUBLICAN MOOCHER idea. They put it on their primary ballot.”
But in the big cities, it is largely Democratic mayors who are just as over the moon for the charter mania as their rural southern counterparts.
kayaker: “The whole thing is a hypocritical scam. Democrats rant on about how evil those rich people”
What are you TALKING about?
The pro-charter movement is probably the most exclusively rich-driven project in our entire political environment – which is saying something.
There are NO poor people driving this thing. It is ONE HUNDRED percent a shiny object for rich people and upper middle class people.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
10:05 am
As I understand it the new schools would be granted and funded by the state but would be ran and implemented by the local system if not the charter school itself.
You understand it wrong. The State has already failed in it’s constitutional duty to fund the schools shifting the burden to the local level. With this bill they propose to steal the money from the local level, funnel it to their buddies and then control it from a STATE level. As I have posted once already:
WE ALREADY HAVE THE OPTION AT A LOCAL LEVEL TO FORM CHARTER SCHOOLS. The problem is thta as it stands now they are in the control of LOCALS and not theMOOCHING REPUBLICANS that control our State Gov’t.
USMC
October 1st, 2012
10:05 am
“The only thing that saddens me about his death is that his wife hasn’t followed yet. They have spent 20 years trying to break up my marriage.”
Sorry to hear about that Fred. I will pay you in Beer at Three Dolla’ sometime.
I just thought you sounded a little bit like those hypocrites who send their kids to a private school and rail against those FOR advocating for Charter Schools.
Are your kids doing well in Public Schools and what school system are they in, just curious.
Tinkerella
October 1st, 2012
10:06 am
Let us not forget that charter schools are already allowed here, folks. These pro-charter people (or other folks who are just uninformed) -this is about the MONEY. And all of you who will vote in favor think your little darling will get in…..ahem….they probably won’t. Instead of redirecting the money into some corporate vulture’s pockets, let’s put it to better use. Instead of spending all of their time on figuring out how to money grab, these legislators should spend more time figuring out a better way.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
10:07 am
K71 — “Bozo having gone to Punahou School where my son graduated. I can attest that the tuition there is through the roof.”
Good thing you didn’t send them to Iolani Academy, then.
BTW, did you get financial aid for your kids to go to Punahou? The majority of students there do receive financial aid.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
10:07 am
One thing that hasn’t been addressed , why is companies such as Walmart pouring so much money into the campaign to get this admendment passed?
It’s CALLED “soft money” but it’s actually a bribe. They support the MOOCHING REPUBLICANS on this issue and then they get the votes they need when they want to steal land through eminent domain to build their stores.
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
10:07 am
Isn’t that just EXACTLY what public schools do? PAY YOUR TAXES, we will decide how to educate your kids
The “we” part of that is democratically elected representatives. You vote, they decide how to spend money.
Oh, you don’t like how they’re spending money? Well, go pout in the corner like any other sore loser.
If you don’t like that process then go live somewhere else where you can p*ss on the Constitution and not be criticized for it. Iran is ready when you are.
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
10:07 am
Peadawg @ 9:32
Damn good question, bro…
Marty Huggins'
October 1st, 2012
10:07 am
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
9:48 am
The amendment would allow for the state to create a charter school with or without the local districts approval. But once the charter had began the state will not be making the decisions it will be the local board members of the charter.
We are paying the taxes anyway even though our kids receive no immediate benefit from our taxes paid for schools.
But why do you feel those without the means to send their children to private school should not have a choice when they are distracted in a school zone that cannot even do better than a 50% on a science test? Especially if they happen to live in a district whose politicians for whatever reason oppose charter schools.
If you are paying for your children to go to a private school why does it bother you so badly how the taxes you pay that your child will never see get spent?
“Ah Marty, but that ISN’T what we are talking about here. WE are talking about the REPUBLICAN MOOCHER Constitutional amendment that is on the ballot thta takes control AWAY from the local level and gives it to the state.”
Mary Elizabeth
October 1st, 2012
10:08 am
“If private schools can do the same job better and for less money, who cares if someone is making a few dollars on the other side. It just proves what a wasteful bureaucracy the education system has become.”
=======================================
Charter schools, which are public schools, have not been proven to be better than traditional public schools. (Google the Stanford Study, in this regard.) There are some excellent traditional public schools and some that do need improvement. The same is true with charter schools – some are good and some are not so good. There will always be some form of public schools. All children will not be able to afford (transportation, etc.) to attend either charter schools or private schools. What will have been created – if we dismantle traditional public schools – will be a society of more pronounced “haves and have nots” than we presently have.
There has been a consistent and deliberate bombardment of propaganda against traditional public schools for several decades and that propaganda has stuck in the minds of many (as well as propaganda against the public sector in general). Please view the Bill Moyers’ broadcast that I linked within my first post on this thread, to become more aware of machinations of the politically powerful and wealthy in our nation, and what their stealthy intent has been to accomplish through inroads to state legislators, regarding the dismantling of traditional public education in our nation and in Georgia.
moonbat betty (mooching moonbat)
October 1st, 2012
10:09 am
Me so hongry!
Rightwing Troll
October 1st, 2012
10:10 am
Excerpt from World History and Cultures In Christian Perspective, 2nd Ed. (A Beka Book, 1997), a 10th-grade history text:
“Between the Fall of man and the Flood of Noah’s day…God allowed man to live by the dictates of his conscience, without the restraining force of government. Because man did not have the authority to put murderers to death during this time, acts of violence and passion grew to such dimensions that God mercifully sent the Flood to destroy all of mankind but one believing family. After the Flood … God established civil government by ordering the death penalty (capital punishment) for murder. In establishing this first foundational civil ordinance, God again taught man the sanctity of human life”
So… God actually created government… and you wingnuts are here railing against government, ergo you are railing against God… why do wingnuts hate God so much???
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
10:12 am
Are your kids doing well in Public Schools and what school system are they in, just curious.
I send my daughter to a private school. I pay for it. If others want to send THEIR kids to private school then let THEM pay for it. This Charter School amendment is for folks who want to send their kids to private schools and have ME pay for them as well. Screw that.
Somalian Ambassador
October 1st, 2012
10:12 am
if you don’t wanna pay taxes, renounce your citizenship & come here!
you’ll love it cons. its not so bad this time of year! plenty o gunz too
larry
October 1st, 2012
10:13 am
Lets say this thing passes………… and in ten years things aren’t any better or even worse, what will the excuse be then.
Parental involvement in their child’s public education is the only way to go.
Taking over 4 billion out of the public schools and forcing layoffs and furloughs is not. Neither is establishing another government agency.
I’m suprised all these so-called small government conservatives are for this admendment.
USMC
October 1st, 2012
10:13 am
“I send my daughter to a private school. I pay for it. If others want to send THEIR kids to private school then let THEM pay for it. This Charter School amendment is for folks who want to send their kids to private schools and have ME pay for them as well. Screw that.”
Tell us how you REALLY feel about it, Fred!
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
October 1st, 2012
10:14 am
Where do magnet schools fall in this debate?
TaxPayer
October 1st, 2012
10:14 am
Cons continue to try to deflect and divert attention from the issue with this legislation–the use of local funds for schools that are not subject to local control. All the other talk is just window dressing.
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
10:15 am
Isn’t that just EXACTLY what public schools do? PAY YOUR TAXES, we will decide how to educate your kids
And if/when you don’t like what’s done, you can elect new people to the boards that are responsible for spending your tax dollars. Will taxpayers be able to fire the people at the charter schools who will get their tax dollars?
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
10:15 am
If you are paying for your children to go to a private school why does it bother you so badly how the taxes you pay that your child will never see get spent?
Are you serious? How can I NOT care about my neighbors and their children? Our very future depends on the education of ALL children, not just my kids and your kids. This charter school amendment is a money grab pure and simple. Don’t fall for it.
Rightwing Troll
October 1st, 2012
10:15 am
Two of the biggest problems with public schools would be too many highly paid administrators and not enough teachers, and not enough flexibility to actually TEACH students. There should be some sort of nationalized standards because of the mobile society we live in, but there should be flexibility in how individual teachers choose to teach to those standards. And all this testing is harmful and stressful to the kids.
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
10:16 am
Tell us how you REALLY feel about it, Fred!
Fred has always been the shy type, lol.