Dissecting the GOP’s ‘in-person voting-fraud’ fraud
And so it continues: Republicans have yet to identify any evidence anywhere in the country of attempts to alter election outcomes through in-person voting fraud.
None.
Yet in the alternative universe that too many of them occupy — the same universe in which Mitt Romney is up 10 points in “unskewed” polling — they are somehow absolutely certain that it occurs, and these supposed “small-government” types are equally certain that new regulations and state bureaucracies all across the country are necessary to prevent it.
This completely imaginary “problem” has acquired great credence on the right because it is so useful. First, it appears to confirm their vague fear that they must be victims of some nefarious plot — somehow involving poor people who are being manipulated against them — to steal elections and thus power. That sense of emotional confirmation is all the evidence that they need, and conservative media are eager to provide it.
Second — whether by intention or happy circumstance — the story offers GOP politicians an excuse to create new and completely unnecessary obstacles to voting by those who do not possess government identification. In Pennsylvania, for example, the state officially estimated that some 759,000 perfectly eligible voters did not possess and identification of the type required by a new state law.
And in Ohio, Republicans are in court insisting that provisional ballots that were cast in the wrong precinct because of mistakes by polling workers must be tossed out and not counted. in other words, through no fault of their own, legally registered voters who did everything by the book would be stripped of their constitutional right to vote. Only a cynic would suggest that the GOP position is driven by the fact that such mistakes occur far more often in more Democratic urban areas, where precincts are much smaller and tightly drawn, making confusion more likely. It’s not an insignificant problem — in 2008, the state tossed 14,355 such ballots, Bloomburg reports.
In fact, the closest we have to evidence of attempted large-scale vote fraud in the current election cycle is a scandal involving a Republican company hired by the Republican National Committee to conduct voter-registration drives in four swing states, including Florida and Colorada.
In at least 10 counties in Florida, numerous voter registration forms submitted by Strategic Alliance Consulting have been found to be fraudulent. The company — founded by Nathan Sproul, a former executive director of the Arizona Republican Party — has since been fired by the RNC because of those problems. In Florida alone, Sproul’s company was paid $1.3 million for its voter-registration efforts.
Even in this specific case, however, there is no evidence that false registrations were generated in an attempt to alter election outcomes. The fraudulent registrations appear to have been submitted by Strategic Alliance workers who were attempting to increase the number of voters they claimed to register. The phantom voters thus created were not going to turn up at the polls attempting to vote.
However, other aspects of the Strategic Alliance effort might be more troubling. Voter registration is supposed to be nonpartisan, with voters of all inclinations allowed to register. In the past, however, registration drives led by Sproul have been accused of collecting and then tossing out registration forms signed by would-be Democratic voters.
Those voters would believe themselves properly registered, only to show up at the voting booth with no record that they had done so. A recent videotape of a Strategic Alliance registration worker outside a Colorado grocery store suggests there may be some basis to those fears:
– Jay Bookman
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765 comments Add your comment
getalife
October 1st, 2012
6:39 pm
RC,
She was a female on food stamps and won a million.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
6:39 pm
Another informative link:
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem
Doggone/GA
October 1st, 2012
6:41 pm
“Are you really unaware of criticisms Jay’s had of Pres Obama and his administration, or do you willfully ignore facts that don’t support your narrative?”
I think the answer is simple: Yes
josef
October 1st, 2012
6:42 pm
ORANGE
“Congressman West delivers the “Coup De Gras)”
I thought the coup de GRAS was Rushbo’s bailiwick!
….but then given the name of the blog you linked…
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
6:42 pm
TD
meant to say “having much more evidence than they are presenting”………… and of course I mean on different issues. I have never been in any lottery discussions on this blog until today
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 1st, 2012
6:42 pm
New bloomberg poll has Romney more unfavorable than Bush.
All that effort to not mention Bush’s name at the convention and what did it get?
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
6:42 pm
And another:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/we-don-t-have-any-problem-illegal-immigrants-voting-us-dem-congressmen-say
ragnar danneskjold
October 1st, 2012
6:43 pm
Washington state and Wisconsin both disprove the first sentence, unless our host is affirming that the fraud arose only when the democrats began to count the votes.
getalife
October 1st, 2012
6:44 pm
“BIEBER FEVER: Justin Vomits On Stage…” drudgey spam for scout.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
6:44 pm
I’ll try to find a link if you want. HUGE Lockheed facility in Ft Worth. Ft Worth paper had a multipage article on new work rules on the line imposed by management. Things like employees go to work when they arrive, not go eat breakfast. Get rid of all the microwaves, coffee pots, etc from employee work areas. Monitoring break times. It went on and on.
I built some stuff at Lockheed at Dobbins in Marietta. There was this old fat, I mean REALLY fat guy that worked there. He came in every morning with grocery sacks. He went to his “work space” where he had a toaster oven, microwave and griddle and proceed to make biscuits. Sausage, link sausage, chicken. Egg and sausage ect…….. he then wrapped them and got on his big three wheeled bicycle and went around selling them to folks at other “work” stations. He took orders. In the 6 month’s I was there I never saw him do any work on any airplane.
Who was his boss? How did they not know? Oh wait, it didn’t matter, they billed for him. They got paid and he got paid……. and he got paid again for his catering business he ran out of his “office.” Did I mention he did lunches too?
Thulsa Doom
October 1st, 2012
6:45 pm
they both suck,
I have seen fraud in the food stamp program and in medicare and medicaid and have been told about it from customers. I’ve no reason to disbelieve what pogo and moonbat say. I don’t understand why you find this so hard to believe when other programs are rife with fraud.
Tundra dude is a far left guy and just mentioned to me that its common for some people on the food stamp program to sell their benefits at 2/3rds to 3/4s of the cost to relatives or friends. I’ve personally seen this happen. Do you think that tundra dude is lying? Keep in mind he is a far left guy and apparently in his view its commonplace for this type of fraud to occur.
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
6:45 pm
TC
Is there a reason that you keep presenting opinion pieces in attempts to prove your point as opposed to hard facts and numbers?
barking frog
October 1st, 2012
6:45 pm
Towncrier
Is the federal election the
straw poll for the president
where no matter the votes
the candidate still can’t win?
State elections elect electors
to elect the President.
State elections elect
members of Congress.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
6:45 pm
And another:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/4/illegal-voters-the-winning-edge/
Ahem
October 1st, 2012
6:46 pm
53 minutes ago
Battle for presidency remains close in new CNN poll
…The poll indicates Democrats overwhelming supporting the president and Republicans overwhelmingly backing Romney, with independent voters going for Romney by a 49%-41% margin, which is within the sampling error for independents.…
Maybe within a sampling error, but still 49%-41%…the worm is turning.
Paul
October 1st, 2012
6:47 pm
Thomas heyward Jr.
“What kind of ID is gonna be required for all this free ObamaCare stuff?”
It appears you have your parties mixed up.
It’s Republicans who are opposed to making people responsible for themselves and their families by requiring them to buy their own insurance. Republicans want people to not take care of themselves so they can use emergency rooms and have people with insurance pay for their care.
Try to keep up, okay?
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
6:49 pm
TD
You can go on and on if it makes you feel better. Pogo, kayaker and moonbat were all asked a simple question and neither could answer……… They said what they did, no one made them say it.
That is very suspicious and the fact that it fits your own narrative doesn’t make something any more true.
You are welcome to lump in fraud elsewhere in attempts to prove your point. I never said it didn’t occur. I did call BS on those three because by mere chance they can’t provide a simple answer to a direct question. Each claims to have seen it or done it themselves, right?
Was it at the Quick Trip, Chevron, in a dream?
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
6:50 pm
I don’t care what you fellers say. I STILL believe Ms. Moonbat. Like I said, she never lied to me before so if she says she bought a lottery ticket on her debit then I believe she bought a lottery ticket onher debit card.
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
6:52 pm
Fred
Could be true. I have never had many interactions with moonbat.
But it seems to be a little fishy in my book, but who knows
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
6:54 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlXcJDtDwM
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
6:54 pm
Towncrier
As I stated earlier, I have not gone through the legal code of all 50 states to see whether or not there is explicit law that makes it illegal for non-citizens to vote. If the person that wrote that did the research and found his/her statement to be true, then so be it. It still does not change the fact that there are places where non-citizens can legally register and cast votes here in the US. That was my point in bringing up the law behind it.
There is no outright and complete ban of non-citizen voter registration. As to their statement about that 1996 Act, we can deport an alien for false claims to citizenship simply for making that claim. They don’t need to do anything other than that to become deportable or inadmissible.
Now, if you want another example of a “Hit Piece”, then look at the title of the article you linked.
Voting Rights For Illegal Immigrants
Then, read the entire article to see where they even mention illegal immigrants. Not one time do they mention San Francisco extending the right to vote to illegal immigrants. In the actual article, they say immigrant, which is what San Fran’s measure would have done.
http://www.immigrantvoting.org/statescurrent/Proposition%20F.html
A supermajority of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors has placed a charter amendment on the November 2004 ballot to allow an immigrant parent with a child in our school system to vote in San Francisco school board elections. Voters should support this simple idea for the following reasons:
…
Immigrant voting has a long history. For the first 150 years of our nation’s history — from 1776 until 1926, 22 states and territories allowed immigrants to vote and even hold office.
…
Immigrant voting is currently practiced in other cities and countries. Jurisdictions in Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts and New York have passed laws allowing immigrants to vote.
…
Immigrant voting is legal. The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly stated that citizenship is not required to vote. . The California State Constitution protects the right of citizens to vote, but does not exclude immigrants from voting. The California State Constitution’s “home rule” provisions permit charter cities to pass local laws in areas of local concern (such as local elections) that do not mirror state law.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
6:54 pm
“Is there a reason that you keep presenting opinion pieces in attempts to prove your point as opposed to hard facts and numbers?”
Just as liberals SUSPECT conservative are trying to SUPPRESS votes, conservatives SUSPECT that liberals are trying to SUPPRESS laws that would cut down on the number of illegal aliens voting in state or national elections (because the majority of them likely vote for Democrats). The articles contain factual evidence of fraud, if you read them. I personally think you have to be pretty naive to think that 1) in our evenly divided nation some races have not been and will not be decided by no more than a few hundred votes and 2) that there are likely hundreds if not thousands of non-citizens that vote illegally in every state.
Do you oppose, in principle, ensuring that only citizens vote in state or national elections? If so, if you dislike current laws, what is YOUR proposal for solving this problem?
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
6:56 pm
TBS: I have bought multiple items at stores and also a lottery ticket. Since I KNOW the law, I’ve always given them cash for the ticket and stated so while paying for the rest with my check card. I wonder how many would have sold me the ticket on my card had I not said anything. I think many would. Usually they are either kids (inexperienced) or just plain stupid. Who knows………..
Thulsa Doom
October 1st, 2012
6:56 pm
they both suck,
Pogo usually just makes 1 or 2 comments and is gone and I think moonbat is the same way and is mostly night crew. Did it occur to you that maybe they just left after a comment or 2 because they didn’t intend to stay and weren’t around long enough to answer your question? And besides what does it matter? They could just make up a convenience store and you would never know the difference so why would they lie to begin with?
Doggone/GA
October 1st, 2012
6:56 pm
“I STILL believe Ms. Moonbat”
I applaud your fine, trusting nature…but I can’t emulate it. I assume EVERYTHING said here is, at the very least, distorted…unless it’s confirmed by credible proof. That does, of course, leave out the things clearly identified as opinion.
Orange12
October 1st, 2012
6:57 pm
It’s a shame it’s not a Senate race. From my perspective anyway.
josef
October 1st, 2012
6:57 pm
BOTH
I tend to agree with FRED on moonbat…I’ve never had anything but the most courteous and respectful dialogue with her. We disagree a lot, but I’ve never thought she was untruthful…
josef
October 1st, 2012
7:00 pm
Doggone
@ 6:56
“…EVERYTHING said here is, at the very least, distorted…”
Well, there IS that!
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
7:00 pm
TC
Earlier, I stated that anyone can google to see that Democrats and Republicans have been convicted of voter fraud and suppression. Can’t help you, if you missed that.
In that same post, I also mentioned that you nor anyone else can provide factual evidence that one is worse than the other……. However it seems that your take is that Democrats are more of the villain, yet you can’t demonstrate that as fact.
If that is not your take then I apologize, however that is how it comes across
It is election time and folks are getting desperate…………. That has as much or more to do with what is going on than the facts.
Mama Says
October 1st, 2012
7:00 pm
Ok Jay,
So are you saying that voting laws are the only laws that are not violated ?
To my knowledge every law we have on the books is violated.
In the earlier comments someone pointed out the penalty for voting multiple times and asked why someone would take the chance.
That question shows the liberal mentality that causes all of us to pay a price, a price that the individual liberal is unwilling to pay, yet society has to grin and bare it while you guys deny it happens.
Its proven every day that penalties are not generally looked on as a deterrent. From minor traffic laws to capital cases-people break the law.
Every day I see identity thefts come across my desk. Everyday The banks and grocery stores are trying to verify that the person they are taking a financial document from is actually the person they say they are. Every day The Department of Driver Services spends hours upon hours trying to figure out who they really issued a drivers license to. A lot of times they figure out that it was not issued to the person whose name appears on the application. Just today another such case hit my desk. I am not even saying that its illegals doing it. People get drivers licenses in another name because they have restrictions on the one in their real names. Suspended license cases are prosecuted everyday as well is the violation known as “giving a false name to law enforcement”. The truth is people are in our jails under fake names, we don’t know it because they got away with it two or three times and now the have a record under that name. Often they bound out without ever being correctly identified. The cases that do come to light are cases that involve a person who is harmed by the use of their name in a fake name situation. You see if I use Jay Bookman name to sign a traffic ticket, Jay is the one who the courts expect to show up for court. Since we are not fingerprinted in traffic court or when we are ticketed on the side of the road, I can come in and pay the ticket, plead not guilty or any other thing I wish. Jay would never know it. I could do this over and over again under several different names until I get my license suspended. The state, by law would have to notify me of the suspension. If I gave them my correct address I would get the notification, and I would stop using Jays name. If the state actually sent the notification to Jay he would correct it. After a long period of time trying to clear his name he may get his license back, if the officer can remember what the person he cited a year earlier looked like. Either way they will never know it was me, I can move on to the next name I wish to use. I can register for anything I wish with your name. I can get a drivers license, get Costco membership, get credit cards, buy a house. You may never know I have your name then again you may find out — someday, maybe.
To assume that everyone obeys the laws is the very height of blind trust. It goes without saying that if they are getting drivers licenses in fake or fraudulent names they are doing everything else in that fake name.
To ignore this simple fact is to ignore the thousands of cases of unsolved bank fraud and identity theft we know exist. You guys act like some magic ferry comes down and sanctions IDs. Generally you oppose every action that is taken to properly ID people.
To act like illegal voting does not exist is grossly improper and dangerous. To argue that we should protect The US Citizens God given right to cast a ballot and share in his or hers responsibilities to elect their leaders without verifying that they are indeed legally able to cast a ballot is a political tragedy, a tragedy that only politicians can justify as reasonable.
I didn’t support Newt but one thing he said is absolutely and undeniably true. Fraud is rampant. Today’s fraud is largely pulled off with fake identities, stolen SSNs and stolen credit files. The sad thing is we all know this, why else would you password protect your personal info on every account you have if you didn’t believe identity theft is real ?
When you hear that illegal voting cannot be confirmed it is because you never gave your finger print when you registered and you don’t give when you cast a ballot. The voter registration rules are ripe for identity theft. If I can cash a check in your name I will bet my left arm I can vote in your name. Considering the state and or county considers it a good turn out when 30% vote that means 7 out of 10 people would never know I used their name at the ballot box, all I need is your SSN.
They sell those like candy on the street and unfortunately in some businesses that want to sell you a financed item that the real you does not qualify for.
Thulsa Doom
October 1st, 2012
7:00 pm
I was just watching NBC news and it showed an Afghan school for girls and they interviewed the woman headmaster who looked pretty hot to me. So why the hell do all those old Afghan men look like goblins and ghouls?
barking frog
October 1st, 2012
7:01 pm
Buying a lottery ticket with
a welfare debit card is
putting state money from
one pocket into another.
Who cares?
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
7:01 pm
HELLO EVERYONE
Three people made an allegation today and couldn’t back up a simple answer.
“Vouching” for them is your business, however based on the dodges and avoidance to the simple answer I call BS………
Orange12
October 1st, 2012
7:02 pm
Fred,
I see you used to work for Lockheed Marietta. C-130? Anyway, those guys are sweating bullets awaiting the results of the Presidential election. Guess which way they’re leaning?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 1st, 2012
7:02 pm
Every day I see identity thefts come across my desk. Everyday
Every day I see the wondrous beauties at the bottom of the Marianas trench, because I free dive it. Everyday.
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
7:03 pm
TD
My stance is what is? Damn man……
You are welcome to make up all the excuse for them if you like.
Until each one can back up their assertion it is BS in my book.
PERIOD………………………………
next topic
Jhunt163
October 1st, 2012
7:04 pm
Last time I remembered you didn’t have the right to vote for President. States can make up any kind of rules they want just as long as if they offer a vote they do not deny suffrage to woman, minorities, and anyone over 18 years of age. States have in the past cast a slate of electors without even having a vote in their general population.
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
7:05 pm
They could just make up a convenience store and you would never know the difference so why would they lie to begin with?
_________________________________________
It is done here all the time…………..
You been here longer than I. You have noticed yet?
barking frog
October 1st, 2012
7:06 pm
Rampant voter fraud is
damn near impossible.
Anyone who thinks it is
happening has not been
involved in the process.
Jay
October 1st, 2012
7:06 pm
sheets
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
7:07 pm
I went to the liquor store on Friday and a lady purchased Crown, Jack and Don Julio along with 50 dollars of lottery on an EBT card………………………..
It happened.
Why would I lie?
Mama Says
October 1st, 2012
7:07 pm
Kam,
What are you really saying please ?
I’d theft never happens ?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 1st, 2012
7:07 pm
Sucky Wall Street. SHEETS!
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
7:10 pm
TD
And so you know if you actually read all of the posts, both mb and pogo posted after JHM and myself brought up the same issue
So your lame excuse about them leaving is void
maybe you have another one?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
7:11 pm
Towncrier — “Just as liberals SUSPECT conservative are trying to SUPPRESS votes, conservatives SUSPECT that liberals are trying to SUPPRESS laws that would cut down on the number of illegal aliens voting in state or national elections (because the majority of them likely vote for Democrats).
So the conservative position you’re articulating appears to be as follows:
We SUSPECT (without evidence) liberals of circumventing the law (without evidence) in order to gain additional votes from a population of people that we SUSPECT (without evidence) would vote for Democrats if given the chance.
That sum it up accurately?
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
7:12 pm
“As I stated earlier, I have not gone through the legal code of all 50 states to see whether or not there is explicit law that makes it illegal for non-citizens to vote. If the person that wrote that did the research and found his/her statement to be true, then so be it. It still does not change the fact that there are places where non-citizens can legally register and cast votes here in the US. That was my point in bringing up the law behind it.”
As far as I can tell thus far, it is limited and local suffrage only – not for state-wide elections. I will keep researching. But if what I have found is true, then one question that comes to mind is how do states differentiate between local and state elections and the voters rolls for each? Has this even been investigated or looked at? Is it possible for someone on local rolls to be automatically added to state rolls? Knowing governmental inefficiency and clumsiness, that is what makes allowing non-citizens to vote for anything problematic. If there were a sure fire way to guarantee non-citizens could only vote in local elections, then I guess it would be okay.
“Then, read the entire article to see where they even mention illegal immigrants. Not one time do they mention San Francisco extending the right to vote to illegal immigrants. In the actual article, they say immigrant, which is what San Fran’s measure would have done.”
They say (in the politically correct fashion) “non-citizen immigrants” which, statistically speaking, will certainly include illegal immigrants. Or do you want to argue that those “1 in 3 households with children in public schools …headed by parents who aren’t citizens” are ALL legal immigrants?
yuzeyurbrane
October 1st, 2012
7:13 pm
Mama–there is no hope to sway a paranoid partisan such as yourself. Nonetheless, let me point out that many of the activities which you illustrate as examples of where identity theft and fraud occur: (1) allow folks to access their services and products through the use of a credit card;(2) none require proof of citizenship as many voter ID laws require; and, (3) none require you to go many miles, having to leave work and at great expense to verify your right to use their card. If they did so, no one would use their card. The question for them is how much fraud is there and can they prevent any substantial amount with the electronic screening methods they have. That plus most people are honest and for those that might be tempted, they risk being charged with a crime. Apparently, it has worked pretty good for our credit card companies; why not use same techniques with voting? No lines, no large bureaucracies, quick election results. Could it be that you really prefer disenfranchising those who are “not worthy” of voting in your opinion?
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
7:14 pm
Thulsa Doom
October 1st, 2012
7:00 pm
I was just watching NBC news and it showed an Afghan school for girls and they interviewed the woman headmaster who looked pretty hot to me. So why the hell do all those old Afghan men look like goblins and ghouls?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From trying to satisfy them wimmins………
Jack
October 1st, 2012
7:17 pm
Just be sure to vote. Not voting got us Obama.
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
7:19 pm
Just be sure to vote. Not voting got us Obama.
__________________________
Except for the fact that more people voted in 08 than ever before, you might have a point
But carry on with the talking points
JamVet
October 1st, 2012
7:21 pm
Women not voting is always good news for Republicans. And why in 2010 we got the neocons back in congress.
But rest assured that the sluts, prostitutes and FemiNazis are not going to make that mistake this time, Jack…
Mama Says
October 1st, 2012
7:24 pm
Brane,
Tell you what. Go to your local courthouse and read the pending court calendars, heck you can look at most of them online. You will see how many people use fake names and how many people steal your identity.
I never said everyone was dishonest but by your assertion you admit all are not.
I only pointed out the rampant identity theft that takes place, you can draw your own conclusions. We will see what you thnk if you very become a victim of it. Hope u never are.
As Far as voting, you can call me partisan all you like you still fail to recognize the issue. If I can get locked up using your name I can vote using your name. It’s really simple I have no idea why you guys act like it dosent happen.
By the way post your credit card account numbers, we will see how much faith you have in the good people.
One more thing. If you knew what you were talking about as far as credit card companies you may have a point. The fact is banks and credit card companies have a limit which they set before they report credit and ID theft to the police. The credit companies report billions of fraudulent identity theft write offs each year. In other words the credit card companies like the system because we the people give them a tax break in the amount of fraud they report to th federal government. He’ll who wouldn’t think that worked well. They get the profit we get the fraud, via the write off.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
7:31 pm
“So the conservative position you’re articulating appears to be as follows:
We SUSPECT (without evidence) liberals of circumventing the law (without evidence) in order to gain additional votes from a population of people that we SUSPECT (without evidence) would vote for Democrats if given the chance.
That sum it up accurately?”
No, grasshopper. It would be more like this:
We SUSPECT liberals of
circumventingnot wanting to enforce or implement a law (with evidence provided by their almost universal opposition to efforts to prevent non-citizen voting) in order to gain additional votes from a population of people that we SUSPECT (based on statistically proven minority voting patterns) would vote for Democrats if given the chance.To reiterate some of the claims of fraud cited in the articles you apparently glossed over:
Of the 1,600 registered illegals in Miami-Dade County thus far identified, around two-thirds have actually cast ballots.”
=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/4/illegal-voters-the-winning-edge/
There are many examples but one notable one is the 1996 congressional race in California, which was won by Democrat Loretta Sanchez. She won by 979 votes. Her opponent challenged her election in the U.S. House of Representatives. The House asked its Oversight Committee to see how many voters in that election were non-citizens. The committee went to the agency then known as the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which checked its database and found that there were 624 non-citizens who had voted in the election and whose votes were invalid. However, the House dismissed the challenge because 624 votes would not have changed the results…
In California, the secretary of state reported in 1998 that between 2,000 and 3,000 individuals summoned for jury duty in Orange County each month claimed an exemption from jury service because they were not U.S. citizens. Eighty-five percent of those people were chosen from the voter registration list.
=http://www.ctlawtribune.com/PubArticleCT.jsp?id=1202556948954&Editorial_Should_NonCitizens_Be_Allowed_To_Vote&slreturn=20120901181223
As was the case in other states, Michigan’s review of voter lists uncovered a significant number of ineligible voters. Investigators examined a sample of 58,000 driver’s license and ID card records and found 963 non-citizens registered to vote. Of these, 54 had voted a total of 95 times.
=http://www.cis.org/vaughan/non-citizen-voting-suits-spread-michigan
Now, since you went to the trouble of mentioning that the 177/68 figures I cited before had been “debunked”, please show where these other claims have likewise been debunked.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
October 1st, 2012
7:38 pm
Once again, Jay – you must have valid ID to accomplish most transactions in this country. Why not ID for the most important? If you really want to vote, and yet have no drivers license, etc., and can not take the time to acquire some form of ID, why should you be allowed to vote? Why does this bother only Democrats? Answer – they are the ones that need to cheat to win.
Jay
October 1st, 2012
7:44 pm
Of the 1,600 registered illegals in Miami-Dade County thus far identified, around two-thirds have actually cast ballots.”
Wrong once again, Towncrier. As of June, more than 500 of those 1,600 alleged “illegals” had already presented evidence of their citizenship and thus their eligibility to vote. I’m sure that many more have done so since. Now, given recent history, I know that you will now state that it doesn’t matter that you were wildly wrong, because somehow you have the higher truth on your side, or some such nonsense.
You are not interested in the truth at all.
Mike1776
October 1st, 2012
8:05 pm
The Republican Party has been using baseless allegations of voting fraud by Democrats as it excuse for a wide range of voter suppression initiatives designed to disqualify or intimidate American citizens from voting.
Now it turns out that voting fraud HAS been taking place after all — voting fraud by the Republican Party. This revelation has got to be devastating to the Republican Party’s chances in this election. No rational person can now fail to see how far a once-great political party, the the GOP, has fallen into deception and depravity, led astray by the immoral “anything goes” unscrupulousness of sleazy characters of the Karl Rove, Jack Abramoff, Tom DeLay or Lyin’ Ryan type.
Dave Francis
October 1st, 2012
9:42 pm
Whether its allegedly true on not of voter fraud from the GOP, they only have to check under voter fraud that the Democrats have provided on a grand scale. That’s why I am voting for Mitt Romney, so that more TEA PARTY leaders can be absorbed into the most corrupt parties for years. I neither trust the Republicans or Democrats, but more in harmony with the moderate Conservatives not the GOP elites or the Liberal Marxist Socialist, which are out to turn our beloved sovereign nation over to the United nations. The UN is as rotten as the two parties and not satisfied with the 10 billion dollars, but want a global tax on every country.
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October 1st, 2012
10:00 pm
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Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
11:51 pm
“Wrong once again, Towncrier. As of June, more than 500 of those 1,600 alleged “illegals” had already presented evidence of their citizenship and thus their eligibility to vote.”
Care to provide evidence of this, bud?
“I’m sure that many more have done so since.”
Yeah…just as I thought…illegals don’t vote in your “alternative universe”. How about the 624 identified by the House of Representives Oversight Committee in the Sanchez race. Got any “refutation” of those number or did you conveniently pass over the other asserted claims of fraud I cited? And did you get the point made by one of the election officials in the NBC report I cited that unless they are tipped, they really have no way to identify non-citizens voting? Or did that slide out of your consciousness? Now…what actual proof do you have that non-citizens are not voting illegally? That not many have been prosecuted for it? Is THAT your argument? Why don’t you try to refute the argument advanced by Foster in another article I linked earlier:
Only two states actually require proof of citizenship in order to register (Arizona and Kansas). The others merely require the applicant sign a sworn statement attesting to the fact that he or she is a citizen. But this is what is asked, and routinely perjured, on the I-9 Form. Thus, it follows that false claims of citizenship in order to register to vote should be widespread. There are some media reports of non-citizens voting, but generally, the media have not investigated the problem in any depth compared to their obsession with the insurmountable problem Republicans will have with Hispanic “voters.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-foster/democrats-benefit-from-illegal-immigrants-voting_b_1418523.html
“Now, given recent history, I know that you will now state that it doesn’t matter that you were wildly wrong, because somehow you have the higher truth on your side, or some such nonsense.”
1100/1600 is not “wildly wrong” there, bud. Unless you have a threshold of about 1000 or so you’d tolerate.
“You are not interested in the truth at all.”
Funny, I was thinking the same thing of you.
Let’s grant my premise, Jay: a certain number of non-citizens vote illegally each election. Given that, and given that the majority of non-citizens are minorities, which way do you think they are likely to vote? Hmm? Just take a guess. And THAT is really why YOU don’t want to concede that non-citizens are voting illegally. I can see no other reason. Here is a principle for you: not a SINGLE person should be voting who is not legally entitled to do so. Here is the liberal schtick in response: we can’t really try to enforce such a thing because of this or that or the other “reason”. So let’s give lip service to the principle while throwing up our hands in defeat.
yuzeyurbrane
October 1st, 2012
11:52 pm
Mama–how much money do you stand to make by voting with someone else’s name at the risk of a felony conviction? how much money do you stand to make by using someone else’s credit at the risk of a felony conviction? There lies the answer to your paranoid posturing. You are comparing apples and oranges. Also, isn’t voter registration the better stage at which to assure voters are qualified? It requires more proof of eligibility, it happens far enough in advance of election day for any who doubt the legitimacy of the registration to challenge it and for the challenged voter to respond, and it does not have to be repeated every election after the initial registration. Isn’t that the purpose of voter registration? For the first 110 years of our republic, we had no voter registration at all and voter registration was implemented to stop fraud (although it was quickly subverted by racist Southerners as a tool to cleverly disenfranchise blacks). Race discrimination had pretty much removed from the system after the 1964 Voting Rights Act. Why do you want to reinstate that?
Jay
October 2nd, 2012
7:30 am
““Wrong once again, Towncrier. As of June, more than 500 of those 1,600 alleged “illegals” had already presented evidence of their citizenship and thus their eligibility to vote.”
Care to provide evidence of this, bud?
It’s quite easily documentable, Crier. But since you have shown yourself oblivious to facts and evidence, making even the minimal effort needed to do so is clearly useless.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 2nd, 2012
8:39 am
Towncrier — “No, grasshopper.”
Okay, Richard.
“It would be more like this:”
We SUSPECT liberals of circumventing not wanting to enforce or implement a law (with evidence provided by their almost universal opposition to efforts to prevent non-citizen voting)”
Denied. Universal opposition does not constitute evidence.
” in order to gain additional votes from a population of people that we SUSPECT (based on statistically proven minority voting patterns) would vote for Democrats if given the chance.”
Denied. You’re conflating minorities with illegals. You do realize that an undocumented alien can be of ANY race, right? And you also realize that a person’s race is not the sole determinant of how they vote, right? You really are making this too easy. (laughing)
“To reiterate some of the claims of fraud cited in the articles you apparently glossed over:”
I didn’t gloss over them. I simply don’t give them any credence, as they don’t advance your muddled argument.
“Of the 1,600 registered illegals in Miami-Dade County thus far identified, around two-thirds have actually cast ballots.”
Non-responsive to your earlier stated argument.
“There are many examples but one notable one is the 1996 congressional race in California, which was won by Democrat Loretta Sanchez. She won by 979 votes. Her opponent challenged her election in the U.S. House of Representatives. The House asked its Oversight Committee to see how many voters in that election were non-citizens. The committee went to the agency then known as the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which checked its database and found that there were 624 non-citizens who had voted in the election and whose votes were invalid. However, the House dismissed the challenge because 624 votes would not have changed the results…”
Not seeing your problem there. Once the voting non-citizens have been identified, that’s no longer a matter for the House Oversight Committee; it’s a matter for the INS (now ICE).
“In California, the secretary of state reported in 1998 that between 2,000 and 3,000 individuals summoned for jury duty in Orange County each month claimed an exemption from jury service because they were not U.S. citizens. Eighty-five percent of those people were chosen from the voter registration list.”
As has been pointed out several times in this thread, being on the voter registration list does not prove that a given non-citizen has actually voted.
“As was the case in other states, Michigan’s review of voter lists uncovered a significant number of ineligible voters. Investigators examined a sample of 58,000 driver’s license and ID card records and found 963 non-citizens registered to vote. Of these, 54 had voted a total of 95 times.”
Then that’s a matter for the state and county election officials to deal with, but again, it seems non-responsive to your argument. Where’s the evidence that “liberals” are blocking efforts to scrub the voter registration rolls?
“Now, since you went to the trouble of mentioning that the 177/68 figures I cited before had been “debunked”, please show where these other claims have likewise been debunked.”
Please show me where I claimed to have debunked your reiterated claims above. (laughing)
Chip
October 2nd, 2012
9:07 am
“would be stripped of their constitutional right to vote…” I was not aware that American citizens had a constitutional right to vote. Can you clarify?
GOP can’t win without suppression and cheating; they haven’t won a legitimate election since Eisenhower. | Black Write & Read
October 2nd, 2012
3:59 pm
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October 5th, 2012
6:57 pm
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