Dissecting the GOP’s ‘in-person voting-fraud’ fraud
And so it continues: Republicans have yet to identify any evidence anywhere in the country of attempts to alter election outcomes through in-person voting fraud.
None.
Yet in the alternative universe that too many of them occupy — the same universe in which Mitt Romney is up 10 points in “unskewed” polling — they are somehow absolutely certain that it occurs, and these supposed “small-government” types are equally certain that new regulations and state bureaucracies all across the country are necessary to prevent it.
This completely imaginary “problem” has acquired great credence on the right because it is so useful. First, it appears to confirm their vague fear that they must be victims of some nefarious plot — somehow involving poor people who are being manipulated against them — to steal elections and thus power. That sense of emotional confirmation is all the evidence that they need, and conservative media are eager to provide it.
Second — whether by intention or happy circumstance — the story offers GOP politicians an excuse to create new and completely unnecessary obstacles to voting by those who do not possess government identification. In Pennsylvania, for example, the state officially estimated that some 759,000 perfectly eligible voters did not possess and identification of the type required by a new state law.
And in Ohio, Republicans are in court insisting that provisional ballots that were cast in the wrong precinct because of mistakes by polling workers must be tossed out and not counted. in other words, through no fault of their own, legally registered voters who did everything by the book would be stripped of their constitutional right to vote. Only a cynic would suggest that the GOP position is driven by the fact that such mistakes occur far more often in more Democratic urban areas, where precincts are much smaller and tightly drawn, making confusion more likely. It’s not an insignificant problem — in 2008, the state tossed 14,355 such ballots, Bloomburg reports.
In fact, the closest we have to evidence of attempted large-scale vote fraud in the current election cycle is a scandal involving a Republican company hired by the Republican National Committee to conduct voter-registration drives in four swing states, including Florida and Colorada.
In at least 10 counties in Florida, numerous voter registration forms submitted by Strategic Alliance Consulting have been found to be fraudulent. The company — founded by Nathan Sproul, a former executive director of the Arizona Republican Party — has since been fired by the RNC because of those problems. In Florida alone, Sproul’s company was paid $1.3 million for its voter-registration efforts.
Even in this specific case, however, there is no evidence that false registrations were generated in an attempt to alter election outcomes. The fraudulent registrations appear to have been submitted by Strategic Alliance workers who were attempting to increase the number of voters they claimed to register. The phantom voters thus created were not going to turn up at the polls attempting to vote.
However, other aspects of the Strategic Alliance effort might be more troubling. Voter registration is supposed to be nonpartisan, with voters of all inclinations allowed to register. In the past, however, registration drives led by Sproul have been accused of collecting and then tossing out registration forms signed by would-be Democratic voters.
Those voters would believe themselves properly registered, only to show up at the voting booth with no record that they had done so. A recent videotape of a Strategic Alliance registration worker outside a Colorado grocery store suggests there may be some basis to those fears:
– Jay Bookman
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765 comments Add your comment
Bookman's Parrot
October 1st, 2012
3:08 pm
Do I have to pay my taxes if the Mayan calendar is correct?
Keep Up the Good Fight! (and only seeing conned poutrage)
October 1st, 2012
3:10 pm
Towncrier: So, without investigating the issue further, at least 38 instances of fraud are stipulated. In case you don’t know, distorting the facts is NOT the same as “making them up” – you know, as in there being some factual basis for an assertion versus none. FYI, I interpret making something up as being an instance of the latter and not the former.
Ahh… so its not a lie to say there were 177 convictions when there were only 38….. Is there a “margin of error” in lies now? When you are corrected and then restate the same false claim with actual knowledge of its falsity, that is not a lie?
As for your failure to investigate the issue after false not investigating, that does surprise me. An ostrich approach. Perhaps if you looked at the 38 convictions you might find out that absolutely NONE of them were for voting twice (the only issue addressed by voter ID)
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
October 1st, 2012
3:11 pm
BRO,
What evidence do we have that suggests we catch even a fraction of fraud…my concern is that with no id required, the opportunity for fraud will skyrocket….is that a good price to pay? Common sense is not with the DEMS on this issue..perhaps I misunderstand and they want some sort of id to register…??
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
October 1st, 2012
3:13 pm
BRO,
If you didn’t already read, I think you will dig this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/robert-samuelson-the-truth-deficit-from-obama-and-romney/2012/09/30/262c4602-09a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_story.html
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
October 1st, 2012
3:14 pm
Do I have to pay my taxes if the Mayan calendar is correct?
Render to Mayans the things that are Mayan’s.
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
DDR @ 2:22
I’m hatin’ on ‘Murica cause ‘Murica be hatin’ on me….
—————
Kam @ 3:01
Very funny!!!! That one’s bookmarked for future chuckles. Thanks.
Misty Fyed
October 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
Of course black panthers armed with baseball bats at the doors doesn’t really count as fraud per se.
Regnad Kcin
October 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
“my concern is that with no id required, the opportunity for fraud will skyrocket”
Stevie – I missed the post suggesting we REDUCE the amount of identification currently required – can you enlightne me?
Thanks.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
K’Chak — “Render to Mayans the things that are Mayan’s.”
What’s urine is urine and what’s Mayan is Mayan.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
stevie ray…clowns and jokers
October 1st, 2012
3:06 pm
GRANNY,
I literally got stuck in an elevator for the past 30 minutes…with a raging bladder that needed emptying:-)
I don’t agree that it is unduely burdensome to require some form of ID and no, I don’t think it is worth it to open a door to real fraud, that will not be detectible, for the sake of addressing the inconvenience of a few voters…I have no idea how many are so inconvenienced by proving who they are and would love to find a creditable source..can you tell me how many voters are missing out on the opportunity to vote as a result?
.
.
.
.
For a man so interested in the topic, I am surprised that you haven’t
googled the readily available estimates.
Are you asking me to do that for you?
Keep Up the Good Fight! (and only seeing conned poutrage)
October 1st, 2012
3:17 pm
my concern is that with no id required, the opportunity for fraud will skyrocket….
You know, like it has done in all the years past.
And because so many people can stand in voting lines all day and vote repeatedly. 
As Jay has indicated, think then post. Perhaps for the conned posters like stevie, it should be think, think some more, think again, think…..more….., and if you still have to post, expect laughs.
Oscar
October 1st, 2012
3:17 pm
Do I have to pay my taxes if the Mayan calendar is correct?
———–
Don’t pay taxes, bills or do Christmas shopping until after December 22. No need to waste energy unnecessarily.
That Black Guy
October 1st, 2012
3:17 pm
the GOP is anti black,hispanic,woman, and poor but they love GOD
October 1st, 2012
1:41 pm
why do christian conservatives hate americans so much?
____________________________________________
They don’t hate ALL Americans.
Just YOU.
Bigot.
Common Sense isn't very Common
October 1st, 2012
3:20 pm
I don’t think the problem is with ID’s.
I think the main problem seems to stem with the TIMING of the right screaming voter fraud right before the election.
If ID’s are required fine take the time to have the states fund a plan to issue state ID’s to EVERY resident in the state without that person being required to stand in line for hours to get it.
Show up at the colleges, retirement homes, senior citizens centers and all throughout the communities to register the voters and issue IDs.
Short of that it seems to show a tendancy to want to suppress the votes in Ga and potential other red states.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 1st, 2012
3:20 pm
Misty Fyed
October 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
Of course black panthers armed with baseball bats at the doors doesn’t really count as fraud per se.
.
.
.
.
Do all 6 of them make you a’scared? Or only on in particular?
JamVet
October 1st, 2012
3:20 pm
MISTY, AVERT YOUR EYES!
As part of their master plan for the Negrofication of America, these black students would make white America guilt-elect a secret Kenyan Muslim as President who would then appoint Holder as the new Attorney General, giving him the power to just blow the whole intimidation thing off. Also, back at Columbia? Holder maybe had guns or was armed with a spear or something. I think nunchucks were kind of popular around then. Yes. Yes they were. We’ll say that Holder had nunchucks; he was ‘nunchuked up’ as was the custom of the time.
Alan Keyes and Herman Cain are not amused…
Oscar
October 1st, 2012
3:21 pm
I can recall the election in which 226 people voted in alphabetical order signing in using the same pen and handwriting in 1948 that put Herman Talmadge in as governor. Interesting fact is all those people turned out to have been dead at the time.
No voter fraud there.
Also, Jimmy Carter proved voter fraud and had the election results overturned when he first ran for state rep. Started his career by proving voter fraud.
Probably a bad court decision because voter fraud does not exist.
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
What evidence do we have that suggests we catch even a fraction of fraud…my concern is that with no id required, the opportunity for fraud will skyrocket….is that a good price to pay?
Well, the easiest way to remedy that situation is to stop 3rd party voter registration and make the government be the only registrator. The government can verify identity through verification processes at the point of registration and ensure the person has a photo ID issued then. The person only has to show that ID when voting afterwards. As to people who are currently registered, either grandfather them in or issue ID’s at polling places until everybody’s in possession of an ID.
As it states now, the only concrete evidence I’ve seen anywhere in relation to in person ID voting is the 10 cases found by the group that researched it. I’ve posted several links to their information. I’d suggest you take a read. The whole fraud thing has been blown up way out of proportion. People are preying on unfounded fears and stoking things when there should not be this much ado about it.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
I’m as worried about this goofy crap as I am the idiot Democrats who STILL claim Bush “stole” the election in Florida through voter fraud.
I see an increase in the aluminum beanie squad………..
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
ROBME/ AYN ARE FRAUDS
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
3:24 pm
People are preying on unfounded fears and stoking things when there should not be this much ado about it.
Naw. Republicans and talk radio hosts would NEVER do that………
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:24 pm
Fred, W did steal the election twice and you are an idiot.
Oscar
October 1st, 2012
3:26 pm
I’m as worried about this goofy crap as I am the idiot Democrats who STILL claim Bush “stole” the election in Florida through voter fraud.
_______
Don’t remember any allegations of fraud in that case. Just stupidity. The butterfly ballot resulted in many people, enough to change Florida from Gore to Bush.
Exit polls clearly showed those people thought they were voting for Gore.
On such things elections turn.
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
The argument is that you seem to be suggesting that because so few have been caught, that no more fraud exists
I tend to prefer evidence, yes. There are certainly crimes that are under-reported (like speeding) but you can go sit next to 285 and observe speeders. Or try driving 55 MPH and watch grandmas blow your doors off.
You don’t have to rely on mumbled crap circulated by people with questionable reading comprehension and a loose approach to critical thinking.
The whole Minnesota Votergate has been picked apart here, yet it’s still circulated as “proof” voter fraud changed an election. The fact people are still pimping this sort of drivel makes me skeptical of their claims. They don’t seem to know good info from bad. They never read something and think “is that really true?” They have no B.S detectors whatsoever if it fits their worldview, it’s truth.
I’ve said before I used to be a Republican and then somebody sucked all the IQ out and left a bunch of Bachmann like loons. Everyone screws up, makes mistakes, and so forth. But Republicans don’t seem the least bit embarrassed when they say or do dumb stuff. Nobody cares. They accept dumb, careless, and mindless behavior as the norm. I don’t.
I make absolutely no apologies for that, and if you (the conservative world you, not you personally) were ranting about unarmed embassy guards a couple of weeks ago, don’t be surprised when I don’t accept paranoid assertions about voter fraud without evidence.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
Misty Fyed
October 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
Of course black panthers armed with baseball bats at the doors doesn’t really count as fraud per se.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
What kind of freaking idiot brings a baseball bat to a gun fight?
Keep Up the Good Fight! (and only seeing conned poutrage)
October 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
Bush’s Fault, ifyou are referring to the election fraud committed by Mitt when he claimed to be living in his son’s unfinished basement or when he amended his tax returns to “unclaim” UT as his state of residency, it’s simple. IOKIFYAR. No need for concern there.
Oscar
October 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
What’s wrong with requiring proof that people are alive and who they say they are when they vote. Mystery to me anyone is complaining.
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
Stevie Ray
I read Samuelson’s piece last night when it was posted. What he said was true, and neither candidate will tell the complete truth. No politician will ever tell the complete truth either because I honestly don’t think the majority of the voting public wants to hear the truth. Otherwise they wouldn’t consistently reward lying with cushy government offices and titles. We live in a country where we think we can enjoy everything we have and not pay for it. What else would you expect from politicians who govern such a country?
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
CON=FRAUD
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
3:29 pm
Exit polls clearly showed those people thought they were voting for Gore.
No they didn’t. Yet the FIRST thing they did in that case was disenfranchise every soldier serving over seas who had Florida listed as their home of residense. They tossed out every one of their votes.
That “I THOUGHT I voted for Gore” BS is just that, BS. if you are too stupid to know who you voted for then you clearly DIDN’T think and are incapable of thought. Gore lost. Get over it.
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
GOP trying to SUPPRESS VOTING is the problem
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
ITS ALL BUSH’S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:24 pm
Fred, W did steal the election twice and you are an idiot.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s a good thing I know you are nothing but a poor attempt at satire………..
That Black Guy
October 1st, 2012
3:31 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
2:03 pm
Ahem — “Biden overheard saying to you on my behalf: “It is a three word phrase abbreviated by STFU”
You must mean a *four*-word phrase. (pointing, laughing)
_______________________________________________
I think it was a play on Bidens gaff:
“Look, John’s last-minute economic plan does nothing to tackle the number one job facing the middle class, and it happens to be, as Barack says, a three-letter word: jobs. J-O-B-S,” the Democratic veep nominee said at a morning rally in Athens.
moonbat betty (mooching moonbat)
October 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
democrats are not capable of cheating…
It’s not cheating if YOU think it is ok (ala George Costanza and Bill Clinton)
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
ITS ALL BUSH’S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:24 pm
Fred, W did steal the election twice and you are an idiot.
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
October 1st, 2012
3:33 pm
Thanks Freddy…lol
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
3:33 pm
“The argument is that you seem to be suggesting that because so few have been caught, that no more fraud exists”
Well, we know Al Capone never committed or conspired to murder because he was never convicted of this. And we know that people who will lie, steal, commit adultery and commit a host of other wrongs would NEVER vote when they shouldn’t. That would be…UNTHINKABLE!!!
Thomas
October 1st, 2012
3:35 pm
cross hairs, vitriol, hope, change, need more time,….
is the light at the end of the tunnel a soothing light or is it a freight train heading our way?- only time will tell. until then- enjoy yourselves.
moonbat betty (mooching moonbat)
October 1st, 2012
3:36 pm
Here it is…George Costanza was a liberal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM
Williebkind
October 1st, 2012
3:36 pm
If you want to define voter fraud, then look at the biased networks ABC, CBS, NBC, and of course the biggest of them all CNN. These are the reasons for voter fraud. If you provide false information v over and over again some will start believing it. These networks are biggest voter frauds ever.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda, Gangland Style!
October 1st, 2012
3:39 pm
Kam – your ABM post – too funny!
Seen on blog:
Thus Tucker Carlson’s constant efforts to portray Holder as a repressive authoritarian are vindicated by his uncovering of evidence of Holder’s anti-authoritarian activity in college. Well-played, Tucker, well-played.
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
3:39 pm
Kinda off topic, but I was reading the transcript from Rep. Ryan’s interview on Fox this weekend, and I have a question as to something he stated on tv.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/2012/09/30/exclusive-paul-ryan-plays-latest-poll-numbers-exudes-confidence-ahead-debates?page=4
WALLACE: OK, but let’s assume it doesn’t. The question is, what’s more important to Romney? Would he scale back on the 20 percent tax cut for the wealthy? Would he scale back and say, OK, you know, we’re going to have to raise taxes for the middle class?
I guess the question is what’s most important to him in his tax reform plan?
RYAN: Keeping tax rates down. By lowering tax rates, people keep more of the next dollar that they earn. That matters. That is incentives. That’s pro-growth policy. That creates 7 million jobs. And what should go first…
WALLACE: So that’s more important than…
RYAN: That’s more important than anything. And more importantly, it’s not what deductions are in the tax code but it’s who gets them. And don’t forget that the higher-income people have a disproportionate amount of the loopholes that they use. So when you close a tax write-off or a tax shelter for a higher-income person, more of their income is subject to taxation so you can lower tax rates.
That’s where we begin. So where we go is by denying those deductions and loopholes to higher-income people, which allows us to lower tax rates for everybody across the board and still afford important preferences for the middle-class taxpayers.
So, if it’s more important than anything else to ensure that people keep more of their money, why is all the animosity being generated towards the 47% group? Isn’t that exactly what Rep. Ryan said was pro-growth policy, people keeping more of their money?
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
3:40 pm
“Ahh… so its not a lie to say there were 177 convictions when there were only 38….. Is there a “margin of error” in lies now? When you are corrected and then restate the same false claim with actual knowledge of its falsity, that is not a lie?”
Where did I say that? Re-read my posts: I am in principle against a SINGLE person voting who shouldn’t. I don’t care if there have been 38 convictions or 10,000. One is too many.
“Perhaps if you looked at the 38 convictions you might find out that absolutely NONE of them were for voting twice (the only issue addressed by voter ID).”
Voting twice is the “only issue addressed by voter ID”? Please explain that. Check out this investigative report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJDudUpct0
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda, Gangland Style!
October 1st, 2012
3:40 pm
Will He B Kind? Heck Will He Be Quiet!
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
3:41 pm
“Since 2000, there have been 10 cases of in person voter fraud out of 2,068 documented cases of fraud in the election system.”
From the MinnPost:
Minnite says prosecutions are rare. “You have to be able to show that people knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong and they did it anyway,” she said. “It may be in the end they [prosecutors] can’t really show that the people who have cast technically illegal ballots did it on purpose.”
=http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent
Here is some disturbing information about registered voters in just ONE state:
State officials recently sent supervisors a list of more than 2,600 registered voters who, though legal Floridians, are ineligible to vote, The Associated Press reported. But that number pales in comparison to the possibly 182,000 non-U.S. citizens that officials are asking the state’s 67 county election offices to investigate and, in confirmed cases, remove from voter rolls.
Empowered by an election law passed by the GOP-controlled Legislature last year, officials also compared the rolls to federal Social Security files and reportedly identified more than 53,000 dead people still registered to vote, which officials also want deleted from voter rolls.
=http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76443.html
These are the ones that are identified. How many may not be identified? The biggest problem is obviously non-U.S. citizens voting. Check out this investigative report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJDudUpct0
If what they found is true, then my case is made.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
3:41 pm
Towncrier — “Well, we know Al Capone never committed or conspired to murder because he was never convicted of this. And we know that people who will lie, steal, commit adultery and commit a host of other wrongs would NEVER vote when they shouldn’t. That would be…UNTHINKABLE!!!”
Well, there’s a big difference between the crimes you can prove in court and get convictions for and the crimes you simply imagine were committed and which eat at your peace of mind and irritate you.
If it can be proven, then try it in court and get the conviction.
If it can’t be proven, far better to make your peace with it and try to be more vigilant in the future.
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
3:43 pm
“If what they found is true, then my case is made.”
“If, ifs and buts were candy and nuts……………….”
Forget the “ifs”, do you have definitive information or more implication and innuendo?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
October 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
How many of you are willing to provide a DNA sample for a National ID?
Well, I’m dead set against that. There’s a guy doing life in prison right now because of DNA. Turns out there was a burglary back in 1970 in San Diego and somebody in a house got killed. Somebody thought to keep a sample of the DNA of everybody at the house including the victim. Later the technology got to the point that they could develop a DNA database. Anyhow, this nice middle class White guy had set up a nice life for hisself after he got out of the Navy where he was serving in San Diego and he had been DNA tested. When they run the test on the San Diego DNA in the 2000s it turned out to be his. He was arrested and sentenced to life in prison without parole. Did I mention somebody got killed in the burglary?
Anyhow, how many of you can say you never done anything where you could be arrested if they caught you? Well, that’s what giving a DNA sample would do. With the drug and alcohol problems some of you have it’s hard to tell what stunts you pulled that you don’t recall.
Fred ™
October 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
Williebkind
October 1st, 2012
3:36 pm
If you want to define voter fraud, then look at the biased networks ABC, CBS, NBC, and of course the biggest of them all CNN. These are the reasons for voter fraud. If you provide false information v over and over again some will start believing it. These networks are biggest voter frauds ever.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And Faux News is a peach………..
Just damn you would think I would be used to the stupidity and hypocrisy of folks by now………
Keep Up the Good Fight! (and only seeing conned poutrage)
October 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
Ooooh, maybe we can use Jay’s patented mathematical process to solve this:
One of them moochers committing voter fraud by actually voting under several names votes when the polls open at 7 am by waiting in line, then goes to the end of the line to wait several hours to vote again (after spending time getting a legitimate name on that voting registration roll and being sure that that person has not already voted and traveling to a new voting station at an average speed of 25 miles per hour), how many times can one person vote in a 12 hour day. Now remember that a male will not be able to vote, in most cases, as a female (but factor in disguises) and the number of McDonald’s customers served.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda, Gangland Style!
October 1st, 2012
3:45 pm
don’t be surprised when I don’t accept paranoid assertions about voter fraud without evidence.
AquaGirl – Why do you hate ‘Merika?
JamVet
October 1st, 2012
3:46 pm
I tend to agree with the “uncaught element” argument.
Just because we have only caught several dozen high ranking Republicans in sex scandals does not mean that there are not thousands more…
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
3:47 pm
Well, we know Al Capone never committed or conspired to murder because he was never convicted of this.
PSA for cons: please update your meme from “people speed, therefore voter fraud is a problem” to “Al Capone murdered people, therefore voter fraud is a problem.”
Next up: Hillary Clinton has never been convicted of murder, therefore the moon landings were faked.
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
3:49 pm
Towncrier
Did you click on the link? That group did extensive research on voter fraud, and not just in person fraud. They tried to account for every case of voter fraud that had been filed since 2000. They admit that not places responded to their requests. They even have a database where you can search to find things.
As to the registration stuff, that does not bother me at all, unlike you. You forget that, at one time, people used to get registered to vote when they got a driver’s license under the Motor Voter Law. Somebody registering to vote who’s ineligible to vote has no effect at all on any election anywhere. Only when a vote is cast is there potential for effect. As I said earlier, stirring up more emotion than is completely necessary.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
3:49 pm
“Denied. Charges were filed in only 38 cases. I’m sure you know the difference between being charged and actually being convicted.”
LOL. Yeah…and given that fraud is very hard to prove, I am sure these 38 cases are all frivolous and not likely valid, huh?
“If you persist, I’m going to start calling you Hairsplitter and not Towncrier. In case *you* don’t know, conviction = conviction. NOWHERE in all this brouhaha are there anywhere close to 243 people either convicted or awaiting trial, as YOU YOURSELF claimed. So you and your indignance can just dunk your heads and cool off.”
Doesn’t matter if the numbers I QUOTED are inaccurate. Jay said there was NO evidence of fraud. Even one conviction would invalidate that universal claim.
“For your next trick, please tell us what the meaning of the word “is” is.”
I think you would be better at that, given that you are a liberal like Clinton.
Thomas
October 1st, 2012
3:50 pm
Audi has announced that it has settled on San José Chiapa, Mexico for its newest production facility in North America.
Should we start breaking across the border to Mexico for jobs?
Commonscents
October 1st, 2012
3:51 pm
I don’t know Jay. Republicans may have shot themselves in the foot with this. Whites are still the majority in our country. Older rural whites tend to be low-income and are the base of the republican party. This is in contrast to a large diversity of democratic voters that vary amoung young, old, urban, white, minority, rich, poor, etc. If rural whites have difficulty getting registered, they just cut out at least 40% of their voters.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
3:51 pm
“As to the registration stuff, that does not bother me at all, unlike you.”
It should, since if the investigative report I linked to is accurate, non-US citizens are voting. That is alright by you?
Regnad Kcin
October 1st, 2012
3:51 pm
“Empowered by an election law passed by the GOP-controlled Legislature last year, officials also compared the rolls to federal Social Security files and reportedly identified more than 53,000 dead people still registered to vote, which officials also want deleted from voter rolls”
This shows the ineffiency of the bureaucracy. It shows nothing to do with fraud. Also, I’m curious about to whom “reportedly” refers…
Rightwing Troll
October 1st, 2012
3:52 pm
“Here it is…George Costanza was a liberal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM”
And Honey Boo Boo’s family undoubtedly votes wingnut…
Adam
October 1st, 2012
3:53 pm
“The opposition in this year has already imported into this campaign a very interesting thing, because it is foreign. They have imported the propaganda technique invented by the dictators abroad. Remember, a number of years ago, there was a book, Mein Kampf, written by Hitler himself. The technique was all set out in Hitler’s book – and it was copied by the aggressors of Italy and Japan. According to that technique, you should never use a small falsehood; always a big one, for its very fantastic nature would make it more credible – if only you keep repeating it over and over and over again.”
- Franklin Delano Roosevelt, September 23, 1944
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
3:54 pm
“PSA for cons: please update your meme from “people speed, therefore voter fraud is a problem” to “Al Capone murdered people, therefore voter fraud is a problem.”
Liberal lemming alert: deflection detected.
Regnad Kcin
October 1st, 2012
3:54 pm
“Should we start breaking across the border to Mexico for jobs?”
Go for it, Thomas.
moonbat betty (mooching moonbat)
October 1st, 2012
3:54 pm
Who is this Honey Boo Boo the liberals are so fond of?
They seem to be obsessed with this Boo Boo…
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
3:55 pm
Jay said there was NO evidence of fraud.
Let’s play a drinking game: everyone drink when Towncrier fails another reading comprehension test.
Anyone up for alcohol poisoning today?
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
3:55 pm
TC went from “if what they found is true” to
“It should, since if the investigative report I linked to is accurate, non-US citizens are voting.”
What information did you come up with between those posts to go from “if” to “is accurate”?
Rightwing Troll
October 1st, 2012
3:57 pm
“They seem to be obsessed with this Boo Boo…”
Honey Boo Boo is a “reality” show on TLC depicting an average south GA GOP family and the foibles of their everyday lives… It’s a good snapshot of your average everyday wingnut family.
Michael G.
October 1st, 2012
3:57 pm
Jay,
I guess you do not even read your own paper. If you did, then you would know that on Sept. 3, 2012 Monday, Sept. 3, 2012 an article ran titled, “Despite voter ID law, minority turnout up in Georgia.”
“Elections data reviewed by the AJC show that participation among black voters rose by 44 percent from 2006 — before the law was implemented — to 2010. For Hispanics, the increase for the same period was 67 percent. Turnout among whites rose 12 percent.
It was expected that African American turnout would spike in 2008, when Barack Obama became the first person of color to win the presidency. And it did rise to historic highs in Georgia.
Black participation fell in 2010, as it did for all demographic groups. Still, a far greater share of black voters turned out in 2010 than in 2006, showing that Obama was not the only factor driving turnout.”
So, Jay, you simply are not telling the truth when you make the erroneous claim that voters are being suppressed. Nice try.
alittlecommonsense
October 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
It is rather silly to think that with millions of people motivated to see thier side win, that no one would cheat. Just do it on the honor system right?
stands for decibels
October 1st, 2012
3:59 pm
Off topic: A little something for those Simpson-Bowels fetishists among us (and for those of us who love to bait and entrap them)–
[D]espite the bizarre reverence it inspires in Beltway insiders — the same people, by the way, who assured us that Paul Ryan was a brave truth-teller — the fact is that Simpson-Bowles is a really bad plan, one that would undermine some key pieces of our safety net. And if a re-elected president were to endorse it, he would be betraying the trust of the voters who returned him to office.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
4:00 pm
“TC went from “if what they found is true” to “It should, since if the investigative report I linked to is accurate, non-US citizens are voting.” What information did you come up with between those posts to go from “if” to “is accurate”?
Wow…you lost me there, bud. Besides this deflection, have you any response to the report I linked to itself????? HUH?????
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
Towncrier — “LOL. Yeah…and given that fraud is very hard to prove, I am sure these 38 cases are all frivolous and not likely valid, huh?”
I like when you get all pizzy and indignant; it’s generally a sign that your argument has gone down the tubes.
Oh, BTW, mindreading fail. Considering that earlier in the thread you had been swearing up and down that there were 243 convictions and indictments for voter fraud in the 2008 MN election, your pathetic attempt to cast the 38 *actual* cases (in which charges were filed) into question is noted and rejected. Just come down off your high horse and discuss the matter like an adult, Towncier.
“Doesn’t matter if the numbers I QUOTED are inaccurate.”
Actually, it does.
“Jay said there was NO evidence of fraud. Even one conviction would invalidate that universal claim.”
One, I’m not Jay. Two, your claim has already been debunked (see earlier this page). Three, if you’re going to attack someone else’ alleged inaccuracy, you’ve got no special exemption from being called out on inaccuracies of your own.
“I think you would be better at that, given that you are a liberal like Clinton.”
I’ve told you several times that I never voted for Clinton. Please pay closer attention to detail.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
October 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
Honey Boo Boo is a “reality” show on TLC depicting an average south GA GOP family and the foibles of their everyday lives…
Does it have a trailer and dogs living under the porch and everything like that?
Gee, I might need to switch from Fox News to take a gander at this TLC. About time they started making shows about everyday people.
Doggone/GA
October 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
“It is rather silly to think that with millions of people motivated to see thier side win, that no one would cheat”
Since no one has stated that…what’s your point?
moonbat betty (mooching moonbat)
October 1st, 2012
4:02 pm
“Honey Boo Boo is a “reality” show on TLC depicting an average south GA GOP family and the foibles of their everyday lives… It’s a good snapshot of your average everyday wingnut family.”
Thanks for the info, RWT. So that’s what gets you hipsters off these days?
I guess I better go get some skinny jeans and fake glasses so I can be cool too…
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
4:02 pm
How did I lose you. Are you not able to follow your own words?
You went from “if” to “is accurate”.
What information did you uncover that would make you change from basically an assertion to what appears to be a definitive statement?
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
4:02 pm
Towncrier — “Liberal lemming alert: deflection detected.”
Deflection Source: Conservative Posters
moonbat betty (mooching moonbat)
October 1st, 2012
4:04 pm
“Gee, I might need to switch from Fox News to take a gander at this TLC. About time they started making shows about everyday people.”
RC, only the cool kids watch that show.
Go get you some skinny jeans and fake glasses before you even try to watch such a show.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
4:04 pm
I have posted this bit of evidence twice already and there is nothing but silence from the liberals here. Anyone care to address what the report uncovers???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJDudUpct0
If what they found is true, then my case is made.
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2012
4:05 pm
How did I lose you. Are you not able to follow your own words?
I think we’ve identified TC’s problem.
Bookman's Parrot
October 1st, 2012
4:05 pm
National ID: bipolar.
Or is that ego?
Brosephus™
October 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
Towncrier: It should, since if the investigative report I linked to is accurate, non-US citizens are voting. That is alright by you?
You’re sticking hard to that word “if” while your context gives one the impression that you wholeheartedly believe those reports. I can’t and won’t try to change your opinion on this. I can only form my opinion based on what I know.
Until recently, it was not illegal for non-citizens to register to vote. Immigration law made it illegal for permanent residents to vote in federal elections. That same law left it up to state and local governments to decide how they would address that issue. Therefore, for a while it was legal in some areas for non-citizens to register and even cast votes in local and/or state elections.
Your report addressed the Motor Voter Law that was passed in 1992. At that time, the immigration law I spoke of was still in effect. I don’t think it was changed until the Immigration and Nationality Act was amended in 1996. At that point, it became illegal for non-citizens to cast votes in ANY elections. Any non-citizen casting votes beyond that point would be charged and prosecuted in Federal court and could end up losing their green card.
Here’s US CIS (Citizenship and Immigration) link to information given to residents about voting rights.
http://tinyurl.com/236gq64
The reason I am not bothered about this as much as others is because I have faith in those who investigate and prosecute those who break the laws. I have a working knowledge of what can be found out by those who do the investigating.
Towncrier
October 1st, 2012
4:06 pm
“I think we’ve identified TC’s problem.”
Besides this deflection, have you any response to the report I linked to itself????? HUH?????
pogo
October 1st, 2012
4:07 pm
Welcome to Obamaworld. I stopped at a store today and a lady before me bought 6 scratch off lottery tickets. I had to wait and wait because she couldn’t remember her pin. Finally she remembered and so she paid for them with a card. After she left the owner told me that the government gives those cards to people trying to help them and they go and buy lottery tickets. I asked what he meant. He said that they receive a cash card wherein they can buy anything they want at a place of business they want. Beer. Cigarettes. Lottery tickets. Anything. Is this what you libs want for this country? Yes, in your continuing support of Obama apparently it is. This country has become a country of parasites. And the “host” is terminal.
yuzeyurbrane
October 1st, 2012
4:07 pm
We have a lot of slogans being tossed back and forth here. There seems to be an ignorance of the fact that there has been a plethora of studies about voter participation over the years. All of them conclude that for each incremental requirement you place between the citizen and the ballot box, you increase the number of citizens who do not vote. Before the late 19th century there was no voter registration. People just showed up and voted subject to being challenged by their neighbors. The country was smaller, voting precincts were smaller, and people knew each other. It worked pretty well. Then big city political machines developed along with election fraud. Voter registration was supposed to be the salvation. But even when properly implemented, the maximum turnout of persons who are eligible to vote is reduced to about 60%; about 85% of those registered, vote. It seems to have eliminated much fraud in the Tammany Hall big boss setting but post-Reconstruction racists in the South seized upon it as a vehicle to disenfranchise blacks. And they were creative until almost all Southern blacks were disenfranchised. Then the Voting Rights Act came in and most of the hanky-panky re voter registration was eliminated. Since then registration has worked basically as intended, it was the procedure far before the election when prospective voters had to produce proof they were eligible and most states had laws allowing their eligibility to be challenged well before election day. What is being done now with voter ID is basically replicating what is supposed to be done at registration but with no time really available to challenge abuse of the voter ID process. It has a severe chilling effect on people who have already jumped through the registration hoop process but are unlikely to have the new forms of ID at the polling place. Many will never even show up, not wanting to waste their time in line or be embarrassed. Others will leave their place in lines slowed because of abusive challenges by poll-watchers for the Republicans. Their leaders have read the studies which show the exact percentage of voter suppression of Democratic leaning voters that can be anticipated. This displays a severe disrespect for democracy and is in fact often criminal behavior under existing laws. But nothing will really happen to halt our slide into a right-wing big money oligarchy until those are vigorously enforced. And by that I mean not just against Joe Schmoe who has been hired to be the precinct level perpetrator of the crimes, but the big-shots orchestrating the whole thing, like Reince Preibus, the Koch brothers, Karl Rove and others like them. Maybe a little time in the slammer will make them think twice about their unrelenting attacks on our democracy.
They BOTH suck
October 1st, 2012
4:10 pm
“If what they found is true, then my case is made.”
Now you are back to if. Started with “if” then on to “is accurate” then back to “if”……………… hmmmmmmmmm
As for the video, it is your link, you tell me if the allegations were proven or not.
Guess after posting that other bs, you are a little gun shy. Who wouldn’t be?
As for voter fraud and suppression, I have never said it didn’t occur. Based on actual convictions that I have found and not some website that trumps up numbers to fool people as yourself, I can’t tell you which party is worse. Nor can you say it definitely either.
getalife
October 1st, 2012
4:11 pm
You know it is a good American show when they have to use subtitles to understand their English.
Could use an app to understand Cajuns too.
No subtitles in the real world.
Tundra Dude
October 1st, 2012
4:12 pm
For a man so interested in the topic, I am surprised that you haven’t
googled the readily available estimates.
Just ignore him. He’s Mr. Vitt…..as in Fullah Vitt, imo.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll
concern troll :
A person who lurks, then posts, on a site or blog, expressing concern for policies, comments, attitudes of others on the site. It is viewed as insincere, manipulative, condescending.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
4:12 pm
Towncrier — “I have posted this bit of evidence twice already and there is nothing but silence from the liberals here.”
So?
“Anyone care to address what the report uncovers???”
What, exactly, does it “uncover?”
“If what they found is true, then my case is made.”
If what they found *isn’t* true, then not only is your case not made but they also haven’t uncovered anything.
Speculation isn’t evidence.
Tundra Dude
October 1st, 2012
4:13 pm
Stevie the joker:
if you didn’t already read, I think you will dig this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/robert-samuelson-the-truth-deficit-from-obama-and-romney/2012/09/30/262c4602-09a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_story.html
Sammy’s the right one to opine on truth deficits.
Robert Samuelson’s Speeches for the Presidential Candidates
http://bit.ly/cXhquA
getalife
October 1st, 2012
4:13 pm
pogo,
And she drove away in a brand new Lincoln with 20’s.
We heard this same story a hundred times.
Joe Hussein Mama
October 1st, 2012
4:14 pm
ogop — “Welcome to Obamaworld. I stopped at a store today and a lady before me bought 6 scratch off lottery tickets. I had to wait and wait because she couldn’t remember her pin. Finally she remembered and so she paid for them with a card.”
I do not believe you. Last time I checked, lottery retailers were forbidden from accepting plastic to purchase GA Lottery products.
Mary Elizabeth
October 1st, 2012
4:14 pm
I am so weary of Republican spin of truth.
Voter suppression of blacks, minorities, the elderly, and the young is going on, particularly in states where suppression of these votes would tilt the final tally in favor of Republican candidates.
A Southern state – either Mississippi or Louisiana – has recently changed its present law so that the Sunday before election day, on Tuesday, will no longer be allowed to be an early voting day – as it had been in the past. Sunday was the day when African-Americans – many elderly who could not drive or who had no means of transportation – had previously car pooled with others after their church services, where they would be anyway, in order to go to the polls in groups, on a non-work weekend day, in order to be able to cast their ballots.
Voter suppression is immoral. Deliberate voter suppression is happening throughout the nation in this election, and leading members of the present GOP have known exactly what they had planned to do, in this regard, and why they had planned to do it for months, if not years, before these laws were enacted, imo. Immoral.
paulo977
October 1st, 2012
4:14 pm
DDR …….” believe they’re funded just as any other network is – through advertisements, etc.”
___________________________________________________________
WOW …..How ignorant are those who want to follow the bigots!!!!!
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
October 1st, 2012
4:15 pm
pogo
Paid for a lottery ticket with a card?
I think you are fibbing.
I tried once to buy a lottery ticket here in GA (one of those gozillian
jackpot days) and was told I had to pay cash money for it.
No cards….
Doggone/GA
October 1st, 2012
4:15 pm
“Last time I checked, lottery retailers were forbidden from accepting plastic to purchase GA Lottery products”
And it’s always been that way
alittlecommonsense
October 1st, 2012
4:16 pm
Doggone -
“It is rather silly to think that with millions of people motivated to see thier side win, that no one would cheat”
Since no one has stated that…what’s your point?
Well – Jay says
yet to identify any evidence anywhere in the country of attempts to alter election outcomes through in-person voting fraud.
None.
completely imaginary “problem”
I read that as Jay saying there is no voter fraud. “NONE”. Or maybe it just isn’t a problem because his side is the primary beneficiary. I guess it isn’t a problem when your side cheats.
anInterestedCitizen
October 1st, 2012
4:16 pm
Mr. Bookman, who’s telling the truth? Who can be trusted?
From Charade, with Audrey Hepburn and Cary Grant.
REGGIE (Hepburn): Alex, how can you tell if anyone’s lying or not?
DYLE (Grant): You can’t.
R: There must be some way.
D: There’s an old riddle about two tribes of Indians. The Whitefeet always tell the truth and the Blackfeet always lie. So one day you meet an Indian, you say, “Hey Indian, what are you, a truthful Whitefoot or a lying Blackfoot?” He says, “I’m a truthful Whitefoot.” But which is he?
R: Why couldn’t you just look at his feet?
D: Because he’s wearing moccasins.
R: Well then he’s a truthful Whitefoot, of course.
D: Why not a lying Blackfoot?
R: Which one are you?
D: A truthful Whitefoot.
saywhat?
October 1st, 2012
4:17 pm
Not a single right wing poster on this blog has been convicted of bestiality (that we KNOW of). By their own logic, it therefore must be a widespread problem, requiring immediate government action.
Or, maybe we can just admit the whole “voting fraud” shtick is political nonsense and another vote suppression attempt ( of which Republicans have a well documented history).
Which is it? Are Republicans just playing dirty politics, or are they really that stupid?
Regnad Kcin
October 1st, 2012
4:17 pm
“If what they found is true, then my case is made”
If pig grew wings, they’d be pigeons.