Take a sober look at military option against Iran
We have learned, one would hope, not to wade into another war blindly optimistic about what it might accomplish or what costs it might entail. Given the rhetoric and bluster bandied about regarding Iran, however, some have learned those lessons less well than others.
A group of foreign policy experts calling itself the Iran Project has undertaken a study of the potential benefits and costs of military intervention against Iran by the United States and Israel. Its work has been endorsed by well-known figures in the foreign-policy field such as former U.S. Sens. Sam Nunn and Chuck Hagel, former national security advisers Zbigniew Brzezinski and Brent Scowcroft, and seven former generals or admirals with extensive military experience in the Middle East.
The report, available here, takes as a given that “a nuclear-armed Iran would pose dangerous challenges to U.S. interests and security, as well as to the security of Israel.” It simply attempts to lay out in clear fashion both the potential benefits and costs of attempting to solve that problem through military means.
Among their findings, authors of the report suggest that a military attack by Israel would succeed in delaying Iran’s nuclear program by two years at best. The United States, with its additional resources, could set the effort back by as long as four years, but would then be forced to repeat the process on a fairly regular basis over an extended period of time. Once undertaken, such attacks would greatly reduce the chances of eventually ending the program by non-military means.
“In fact,” the report states, “we believe that a U.S. attack on Iran would increase Iran’s motivation to build a bomb, because 1) the Iranian leadership would become more convinced than ever that regime change is the goal of U.S. policy, and 2) building a bomb would be seen as a way to inhibit future attacks and redress the humiliation of being attacked.” It also concludes that resistance within Iran to the current regime would all but disappear as the Iranian people rally against outside invaders.
The authors also warn that “In addition to costing the U.S. economy hundreds of billions of dollars yearly, a sustained conflict would boost the price of oil and further disrupt an already fragile world economy.”
Given their backgrounds, we can assume that the authors of the report are privy to discussions in Washington that the rest of us are not. That makes one section of their report particularly chilling:
“Privately, some national security experts and advisors may have embraced the more modest objective of delaying Iran’s ability to build a nuclear weapon, as a step toward prevention; but some others may have embraced objectives that are far broader than official statements currently suggest. Even in order to fulfill the stated objective of ensuring that Iran never acquires a nuclear bomb, the U.S. would need to conduct a significantly expanded air and sea war over a prolonged period of time, likely several years. If the U.S. decided to seek a more ambitious objective, such as regime change in Iran or undermining Iran’s influence in the region, then an even greater commitment of force would be required to occupy all or part of the country.
Given Iran’s large size and population, and the strength of Iranian nationalism, we estimate that the occupation of Iran would require a commit- ment of resources and personnel greater than what the U.S. has expended over the past 10 years in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.” (emphasis original).
In addition to the significant financial costs of conducting such attacks, the report warns, “serious costs to U.S. interests would also be felt over the longer term, we believe, with problematic consequences for global and regional stability, including economic stability. A dynamic of escalation, action, and counteraction could produce serious unintended consequences that would significantly increase all of these costs and lead, potentially, to all-out regional war.”
The decision to use military power, to put American lives on the line and to make ourselves vulnerable to the unknowable consequences that war always brings, must never be made lightly. Certainly, such a profound decision must never be subcontracted out to the leadership of another country. And while leaders who want to take the American people to war have an obligation to be honest and forthright, citizens have an equal obligation to educate themselves as well as possible about its potential risks and costs.
It is, after all, our sons and daughters, and those of our friends and neighbors, who will be asked to carry out that policy.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
677 comments Add your comment
RB from Gwinnett
September 25th, 2012
12:46 pm
Ah, yes, DannyX out of the woodwork on cue. The AJC employee DannyX who posts here under multiple names to generate traffic unbeknownst to unwary ad buyers who thing they’re reaching X potential customers when they’re really only reaching AJC employees posting under multiple names. Do you think any of your advertisers would like to have that information DannyX? How about telling us what other names you’re posting under, you know, in the spirit of open records and all?
Joe Hussein Mama
September 25th, 2012
12:47 pm
RB — “Why don’t you ask Harry why he’s not taking any action on these?”
Ooh, ooh, I know! Because they SUCK.
They BOTH suck
September 25th, 2012
12:47 pm
JHM
Great point on WND. That site is one of the homes of the “birthers” as well as numerous other asinine right wing conspiracy nuts.
Paul
September 25th, 2012
12:47 pm
Ahh… thanks, Joe Hussein Mama.
So MARTY…. how ya’ doin’?
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
12:48 pm
“H.R. 910 would prohibit the EPA from regulating greenhouse gases to address climate change under the Clean Air Act.”
and
“H.J. Res 37 … The bill would prohibit the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) from implementing a net-neutrality rule which would prohibit Internet providers from slowing or blocking legal websites or Internet services because of concerns over bandwidth.”
and
“H.R. 2587 would prohibit the National Labor Relations Board (NRLB) from ordering any employer to close, relocate, or transfer employment under any circumstance.”
and the bestest of all!
“H.R. 2273 would utilize the framework and requirements of an existing federal regulatory program developed by the EPA under the Solid Waste Disposal Act (RCRA) as the basis for enforceable minimum federal standards for the regulation of a waste stream known as coal ash. The bill would include enforceable federal standards, but would leave regulation and enforcement to the states.”
You’re actually PROUD of crap like this, RB?
WTF is wrong with you?
TaxPayer
September 25th, 2012
12:48 pm
I tried to find a sign of Obama losing but all I found was this sign of a Republican Party lying to a little girl.
Mick
September 25th, 2012
12:49 pm
rb
You have a comprehension problem, mitt pays 14%, you pay 28% or more. Mitt earns millions, you earn thousands, as a percentage you pay twice as much as him and gladly carry his water. You would have made a great serf…
Repro
September 25th, 2012
12:49 pm
What makes anyone think that if Iran does build a nuclear bomb/missile, they would immediately use it?
The Mullahs may be crazy, bu they are not suicidal.
They know that the moment they did that, they would be destroyed.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 25th, 2012
12:50 pm
unwary ad buyers who thing they’re reaching X potential customers when they’re really only reaching AJC employees posting under multiple names
I have a great browser…. apparently all the “ads” are filtered out on this page…… them “unwary ad buyers” for this particular page are defeated.
Regnad Kcin
September 25th, 2012
12:50 pm
“So RB, do you think Mitt will win?”
RB’s over at InTrade, scoopin’ up some that that good “$2.70 to win $10.00″ action goin’ on over there!
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
12:50 pm
“WTF is wrong with you?”
not enough hours in the day to delve into that morass
Paul
September 25th, 2012
12:51 pm
barking frog
“A nuclear first strike against
the USA or an ally cannot be
allowed.”
Iran’s no where near that. No where.
They don’t even have a delivery system.
(cue the guys reading fiction books who are ready with “well, they take a short-range missile, bolt on a nuke, put it on the deck of a cargo ship, disguise it, then go to Houston for an oil call…”
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
12:51 pm
“You’re actually PROUD of crap like this, RB?”
I just love how they’ve defined them all as “jobs bills”
Call It Like It Is
September 25th, 2012
12:51 pm
Interesting, I would be the first to state keep our boys and girls out of harm’s way, but I would have to question the aspect that Iran would be able to start their nuclear program right back up within 4 years after a US strike. That just seems like an unattainable time line to me. Look at Iraq, how many years after the last battle and they still don’t have full power or water to this day. After the 7 days war, how long did it take for Israel’s enemies to build their forces back up? Again not wanting a war by any means, but I just don’t see Iran bouncing back so quickly if the US did indeed strike first.
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
12:52 pm
not enough hours in the day to delve into that morass
actually I should have directed that “WTF”ish question of mine to the Republican leadership, which is after all responsible for posting that whiny-assed teaty-baby web page RB linked to.
RB’s just a damn pawn in their game, after all.
Madmax
September 25th, 2012
12:52 pm
BO is starting to sound like George, drawing a line in the sand saying the time is short to halt Iran. Amazing what he will do to keep his job yet he’s still holding forth with his stance that the attack on our embassy was caused by the outrage over the film. I guess calling them terrorists or an organized attack would ruin his narrative about how his diplomcy in the ME is working.
kitty
September 25th, 2012
12:54 pm
Jm
September 25th, 2012
11:57 am
Paul 11:52
Deeds. Not talk.
I have significant doubt that Obama would actually follow through on his rhetoric and bomb Iran
And the worst thing is, Iran thinks the same thing
Making a nuclear Iran more likely under Obama
==================================
Why do you think that? He after careful consideration did take the huge risk of going after Bin Laden. If that had failed OMG, the grief he would have gotten from everyone on either side. So why do you think he doesn’t have the guts to do that? I am grateful he is thoughtful about the whole thing and doesn’t let his mouth wander like Mitt does.
Marty Huggins'
September 25th, 2012
12:54 pm
Paul
September 25th, 2012
12:47 pm
I’m good how are you?
No worries Marty ain’t my real name. Can’t use my real name for work reasons.
Marty is Zach Galifianakis’ charecter in The Campaign.
I know not creative but that’s not my skill set
USMC
September 25th, 2012
12:54 pm
Take a sober look at MARTA and “mass transit” option in Atlanta….
Audit: MARTA spends $50M too much, should privatize some functions
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/transportation/marta-needs-to-privatize-functions-revamp-employee/nSKwS/
(I know the children of the Blog will say “more AJCy spam”…)
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
12:57 pm
yay!!! RB has a playmate in USMC
(he’s been lonely without you, USMC )
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
12:58 pm
I know the children of the Blog will say “more AJCy spam”…
no, but I will direct you and others to Kyle, who has chosen that as his topic for discussion.
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/09/25/well-well-whats-this-about-a-50-million-problem-at-marta/
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 25th, 2012
1:00 pm
Scientists find secret of longer life for men: Castration…
drudgey spam.
Madmax
September 25th, 2012
1:00 pm
Repro
What makes you so sure they won’t use it immediately and how do you know where they would and wouldn’t use it. Based on events in the ME for the past few weeks, it appears our intelligence gathering appears to be very weak in the area once again, or nobody has been reading the matrial they gathered or they don’t understand what they have been reading.
Jm
September 25th, 2012
1:00 pm
Kitty 11:54
Flying helicopters into what is ostensibly an ally’s air space is different than dropping daisy cutters (or whatever the latest is) on sites with nuclear material. And lots of people.
Regnad Kcin
September 25th, 2012
1:02 pm
“What makes you so sure they won’t use it immediately and how do you know where they would and wouldn’t use it.”
If they wanted to commit suicide, they could just invade Israel. Why wait?
TiredOfIt
September 25th, 2012
1:05 pm
JERUSALEM—Israel will need to boost military spending and may seek an additional $20 billion in U.S. security assistance to help it manage potential threats stemming from popular upheavals in the Arab world, Defense Minister Ehud Barak said Monday.
++
I am tired of the US spending my tax dollars on this country. If they are God’s chosen people, let him take care of them. Enough is enough.
getalife
September 25th, 2012
1:06 pm
Keep lying and acting crazy cons.
Keep trying to cheat with voter id.
Keep taking no personal responsibility for your failed party’s actions.
You are helping our President get votes.
Heck of a job cons.
RB from Gwinnett
September 25th, 2012
1:06 pm
USinUK “12:44 pm “I don’t pay $6.4MM in taxes per year”
he didn’t say that you did, mr. reading-is-fundamental.
From Mick – “…yet you’re ok with mitt paying half of what you pay…”
Yes, USinUK, reading is fundamental. You should try it. Romney paid $3.2MM in taxes and that is NOT half of what I paid. And while I may be in the 28% bracket, Romney is the 35% bracket and short of deductions, that’s what he paid on his apples to apples income, not this 14% BS you morons keep whining about.
I’d bet most of you tools have no idea what your own effective tax rate is. Mine was less than 2% last year because of some losses on an investment and the $13K in property taxes, and 25K in interest I paid. In short, I followed the tax code as it is written and paid what I owed. I suspect all of you did as well, but somehow you feel the need to whine and outright lie to people about Romney doing the same thing. You don’t pave roads with percentages, libs, it takes $$$ and Mitt paid a heck of a lot more than all of you combined.
Whine on…
JamVet
September 25th, 2012
1:06 pm
The rubes who voted for the worst ever are hardly in a position to speak about failed administrations.
They wouldn’t know one if their lives depended on it.
To wit, ask Ahem and the other Bushbots if they would vote to put George Walker Bush and Richard Cheney right back in the White House in November, if they could…
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:08 pm
Madmax, here is a transcript of Obama’s speech to the UN.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/25/transcript-obama-address-to-un-general-assembly/
I think it’s best to view the pull-quote in some context. I have some reservations about this language:
America wants to resolve this issue through diplomacy, and we believe that there is still time and space to do so. But that time is not unlimited.
…but I don’t think it’s in GWB territory, even out of context like that; and in the context of a typically thoughtful, well calibrated speech, it seems acceptable.
southpaw
September 25th, 2012
1:08 pm
What makes anyone think that if Iran does build a nuclear bomb/missile, they would immediately use it?
The Mullahs may be crazy, bu they are not suicidal.
They know that the moment they did that, they would be destroyed.
————————————————————————————————–
And go to their 72 virgins for eternity. You really think they’re worried about being destroyed? “Not suicidal” is questionable at best.
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
1:08 pm
“From Mick – “…yet you’re ok with mitt paying half of what you pay…””
awww diddums … how sweet!! you conveniently ignored the fact that he was talking about PERCENTAGE!!!
reading
is
fundamental
Regnad Kcin
September 25th, 2012
1:09 pm
“I’d bet most of you tools have no idea what your own effective tax rate is. Mine was less than 2%”
RB – You’re one of the dreaded 47%! You know, Romney said he doesn’t care about you, because there’s no way you’re not going to vote for Obama!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 25th, 2012
1:09 pm
I suspect all of you did as well, but somehow you feel the need to whine and outright lie to people about Romney doing the same thing.
The difference being that neither you nor I are trying to win a popularity contest, but Romney is.
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
1:10 pm
evidence of RB’s creative editing
Mick, “Hey, you’re the one that’s paying 28% or more in taxes, yet you’re ok with mitt paying half of what you pay…”
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:10 pm
I’d bet most of you tools have no idea what your own effective tax rate is.
Shrug. If you use Turbotax or H&R Block software, that’s provided in a summary sheet when you print out your tax form. If people choose to take note of it or not, that’s their business.
DannyX
September 25th, 2012
1:11 pm
Hey RB, there are more signs that the real estate market is recovering.
Speaking of “signs” what is your highway billboard telling you about the real estate market?
Erwin's cat
September 25th, 2012
1:12 pm
15.2%
Mick
September 25th, 2012
1:17 pm
usinuk
If it’s one thing I’ve learned coming here is that stubborn is as stubborn does; not much room for the dim bulb to light up…
getalife
September 25th, 2012
1:18 pm
Great speech at the UN today.
romney would blow it like his campaign.
Lashing out with lies like “terrorist sympathizer”.
Reckless and dangerous.
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
1:19 pm
Mick – you call it stubborn, I call it deliberate misrepresentation
potato
potahto
DannyX
September 25th, 2012
1:19 pm
Mississippi
Bush won state by 20%
McCain won by 13%
Romney +18
Republicans must be proud, the poorest and fattest state in the country, is all red.
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
1:19 pm
“romney would blow it like his campaign.”
he’d blow it like his visit to London
RB from Gwinnett
September 25th, 2012
1:20 pm
No, USinUK, I’m pretty sure Romneys 14% is 7 times the effective rate I paid. What other apples to oranges lies do you libs want to float today?
I can’t believe the sheer idiocy of you people floating that 28% vs 14% BS out there as if its an honest comparison. It’s a lie!!!
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
1:24 pm
RB – riiiiiiiiiiight … you only pay 2% in income tax
(I guess you feel solace that Romney has written you off as a lost cause)
TaxPayer
September 25th, 2012
1:24 pm
The very first graph in this link helps put income and taxation into proper perspective.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 25th, 2012
1:24 pm
So RB claims a 2% effective tax rate and complains about being overtaxed?
lynnie gal
September 25th, 2012
1:24 pm
After being at war for going on twelve years now, we’re sick of it. However, a president Romney, who has no foreign policy experience, would surround himself with the same neo-cons who brought us the Iraq war. Good reason to stick with Obama. He’s determined to keep us out of another war.
TaxPayer
September 25th, 2012
1:25 pm
It’s a good thing RB didn’t pay 0% in fed income taxes because then he would have to vote for Obama.
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
1:26 pm
keep up … nobooooodyyyyyyy knooooooows the trooouuuuuuuble he’s seeeeeeeeeen
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:26 pm
hmm. If I combine my actual effective federal income tax rate with
a) what’s withheld for FICA/Med
b) what’s withheld for my share of an employee-sponsored health insurance plan
c) what I voluntarily have withheld to cover out-of-pocket health expenses
(you know, all the stuff that most civilized countries just pay for out of general revenue, for their citizenry?)
my effective rate is about 22%. For what that’s worth.
gm
September 25th, 2012
1:26 pm
When will someone ask Mitt would he send his sons to war? amazing the right nut jobs are questioning a President that has had America safe for the last 4 years and gave the order to kill the man who took 3500 American lives.
After watching Obama speak at the UN even you right nut jobs have to admit, you rather have this President speaking to the world then Mitt(Gordon Gekko), this is not even close.
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:27 pm
(and no, I didn’t goose that figure @ 1.26 by including the employer portion of FICA/Med.)
USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
1:27 pm
“It’s a good thing RB didn’t pay 0% in fed income taxes because then he would have to vote for Obama.”
as it is, he does complain about being a victim all the time (doncha know, we’re keeping the white man down …)
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:30 pm
Whats the big hubbub about taxes he paid? If you believe that “fairshare” is actually determined by current tax code as opposed to political BS, it’s really not a big issue…if they thought he broke the law, sick the DOJ or IRS on him..shy of that…its really irrelevant..
We elected a guy with ZERO governing experience and his record of matching his political promises to what has been delivered is a failure…he had the opportunity to set bi partisan tone in his first days…had alot of GOPers excited, then pulled out the rug with now famous “we won, you lost…get over it..” hand jive..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 25th, 2012
1:31 pm
Well USinUK, in all fairness, when he was getting food stamps and unemployment, no one was there for him. He did it all on his own…..
They BOTH suck
September 25th, 2012
1:32 pm
“would surround himself with the same neo-cons who brought us the Iraq war”
Too late, several of those folks already work for Romney as policy or campaign advisers.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 25th, 2012
1:34 pm
had alot of GOPers excited, then pulled out the rug with now famous “we won, you lost…get over it..” hand jive..
Stevie, repeating the same talking nonsense themes does not mean that it is suddenly true or even relevant. You might want to consider a new act, with thought this time, instead of merely repeating the old act.
Mick
September 25th, 2012
1:34 pm
**had alot of GOPers excited, then pulled out the rug with now famous “we won, you lost…get over it..” hand jive..**
That just might be because your guys went in demanding that he do this and that…well we did have an election and the repubs were soundly rejected, to the victor goes the spoils…just ask the previous president who governed as if he won a landslide but in reality lost the popular vote to gore…
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:35 pm
LYNNIE,
Respectfully, i think Obamas foreign policy success may not trump Romney’s lack of experience…What experience did BO have at get go?
Sad state of foreign affairs…policy is screwed up or pushed aside…
I wish we’d just pull all of our troops home…losing live’s when we are not directly threatened is a horrible waste…I just get ill seeing the deaths and maiming of our selfless troops…and the outcome is that we are generally persona non grata in both Iraq and Afghanistan…we got no return on investment in either.
Joe Hussein Mama
September 25th, 2012
1:35 pm
RB — “I can’t believe the sheer idiocy of you people floating that 28% vs 14% BS out there as if its an honest comparison.”
I can’t believe you actually think you can read minds.
“It’s a lie!!!”
It certainly is. There’s no such thing as mindreading, RB.
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:35 pm
We elected a guy with ZERO governing experience
yaaaawwwwnnn.
Better concern trolls, please Jay?
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:38 pm
MICK,
Comparisons to Bush don’t mean anything to me..fact is that Cantor et al approached President Trillions with a proposal before he took office that cut 2 lowest tax brackets and eliminated taxes on unemployment payment in an effort to jive with BO’s promise of unity..his naivete and arrogance cost the DEMS grandly..of course that was just the first in many examples of his arrogance gone wild..
RB from Gwinnett
September 25th, 2012
1:38 pm
DannyX (AJC Employee…)
http://www.nwitimes.com/business/real-estate/home-prices-up-in-july-in-major-us-cities/article_d0e685c0-1ef3-5c53-8afe-82ca78f95875.html
It’s telling me the Atlanta market will lag behind others in it’s recovery just like it lagged behind the others in the decline. You know, the exact same point I made to you way back when.
So, how many of these other names are you blogging under to generate hits for ad revenue? I don’t suppose the AJC would like for advertisers to know about that, would you?
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:40 pm
STANDS,
Can you please site a single entry on BO’s prior resume that includes any foreign policy experience? I guess by your yawn that you concede that point or otherwise think it has successfully been defended in the past..I’m dying to retrack my position if you can provide me data suggesting I’m wrong…
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:41 pm
KEEP,
Prove me wrong…this fact has been published in books and newspapers ad nausea…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 25th, 2012
1:41 pm
I’m dying to retrack my position…
Not intended to be a factual statement.
getalife
September 25th, 2012
1:42 pm
“Can you please site a single entry on BO’s prior resume that includes any foreign policy experience?”
Four years as leader of the free world.
All the mindless lies and crazy unpatriotic behavior from you cons helped reelect President Obama.
Thank you cons.
Regnad Kcin
September 25th, 2012
1:42 pm
Job experience for the last 4 years:
Romney – Squat
Obama – President of the United States of America
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:43 pm
Fact or fiction..
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17862.html
Regnad Kcin
September 25th, 2012
1:44 pm
RB – got any evidence for your “DannyX” claim?
Or should you STFU?
Just curious…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 25th, 2012
1:45 pm
Stevie, which “fact” are you demanding I prove you wrong about? You do know what a “fact” is right? Oh wait…..
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:45 pm
So, how many of these other names are you blogging under to generate hits for ad revenue?
jeez.
RB, some months back when Kyle Wingfield had a little heart-to-heart with his readers and re-introduced them to his blog rules, he included this:
[K]now this: I truly could not care less what effect these measures have on the number of comments published on my blog, despite the opinion among some of you that this is an important number to me or the AJC.
So Kyle says that the raw number of comments published on his blog aren’t an important number to the AJC.
But… they are to Jay, you’re saying?
or are you maybe just calling Kyle a liar?
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:45 pm
GETALIFE,
When BO got elected he had ZERO foreign policy expereince and it shows…if you are suggesting he has positive experience now by virtue of being in office 4 years gets no traction if you are of the opinion that he has screwed most of what he has touched..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 25th, 2012
1:46 pm
Has anyone ever taken a sober look at the SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS! ?
JamVet
September 25th, 2012
1:46 pm
As a United States Senator, Barack Obama served on a variety of committees and chaired the United States Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs.
TaxPayer
September 25th, 2012
1:47 pm
But… But… Stevie Ray is a devout Independent so he speaks only the unbiased truth only about anything that he can phrase negatively in his own mind about Obama, like all Independents do.
Oscar
September 25th, 2012
1:48 pm
s anyone ever taken a sober look at the SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS! ?
______
Yes, and . . ?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 25th, 2012
1:48 pm
Jam, takedown, 2 points!
MiltonMan
September 25th, 2012
1:50 pm
Yes – let’s just do nothing and believe what Obozo & his buddy Ahmadinejad have to say about Israel & its “noise” toward Iran.
Jay what kind of opinion piece would you produce if Iran sneaks a dirty bomb into the USA and kills 100s or 1000s of our sons & daughters???
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:51 pm
Can you please site a single entry on BO’s prior resume that includes any foreign policy experience?
Besides actually having lived in a foreign country for several years as a child (you may have heard about that) and, as an adult, visiting his father’s homeland? And later, as a US senator, considering numerous bills with foreign policy implications, and weighing their effectiveness prior to voting?
naw, none whatsoever.
Of course, that’s not a question any sane voter is asking himself when considering whether to support him in 2012, but whatevs.
TaxPayer
September 25th, 2012
1:52 pm
Jay what kind of opinion piece would you produce if Iran sneaks a dirty bomb into the USA and kills 100s or 1000s of our sons & daughters???
I’d be wondering just how the hell they managed to get only our sons and daughters gathered together without any adult supervision long enough to pull that off.
Paul
September 25th, 2012
1:52 pm
RB from Gwinnett
“Romney is the 35% bracket and short of deductions, that’s what he paid on his apples to apples income, not this 14% BS you morons keep whining about.”
Say WHAT?!!?
Care to explain that doozy?
Keep Up
“So RB claims a 2% effective tax rate and complains about being overtaxed?”
Ha Ha. Ha Ha Ha. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Didja catch the real gem, though? Guy made a bad investment and he thinks it’s dandy the other taxpayers cover part of his losses ‘cause that’s the way the tax laws are written, don’tcha’ know?
MiltonMan
September 25th, 2012
1:53 pm
“All the mindless lies and crazy unpatriotic behavior from you cons helped reelect President Obama.”
The election has already taken place??? This same attitude was displayed by the libs in the mid-term elections of 2010.
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:53 pm
Jay what kind of opinion piece would you produce if Iran sneaks a dirty bomb into the USA and kills 100s or 1000s of our sons & daughters???
Jay what if Superman were a Nazi???
Erwin's cat
September 25th, 2012
1:54 pm
and weighing their effectiveness prior to voting present
couldn’t resist
Regnad Kcin
September 25th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Didja catch the real gem, though? Guy made a bad investment and he thinks it’s dandy the other taxpayers cover part of his losses ‘cause that’s the way the tax laws are written, don’tcha’ know?”
Nyah, nyah…RB gets welfare – now he’s gotta vote for Obama…!
Joe Hussein Mama
September 25th, 2012
1:55 pm
MiltonMan — “Jay what kind of opinion piece would you produce if Iran sneaks a dirty bomb into the USA and kills 100s or 1000s of our sons & daughters???”
I expect he’d condemn those responsible, as we all would.
That said, you’re sounding like Condoleezza Rice just now. As in ‘we don’t want the red flag to be a mushroom cloud.’
Jefferson
September 25th, 2012
1:56 pm
The tool that calls tools is indeed the tool of all tools, and a baby tool at that.
Joe Hussein Mama
September 25th, 2012
1:56 pm
MiltonMan — “This same attitude was displayed by the libs in the mid-term elections of 2010.”
And by the cons in the Presidential election of 2008.
And, just to be complete, by the cons in our current election.
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:56 pm
JAMVET,
Good point..I’m not certain how much experience that provided given that he served on at least 5 other, non foreign related committees as well…
You got me though:-) My opinion about his foreign policy outcomes doesn’t change but he did serve on a committee and make several speeches overseas to be certain…
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2012
1:57 pm
and weighing their effectiveness prior to voting present
couldn’t resist
…nearly as devastating as citing the “57 states” death-ray.
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
1:58 pm
STANDS,
I submit to his serving on a committee but suggesting that his living in a foreign country as child or visiting his dad aides his foreign policy experience is…well silly..
Erwin's cat
September 25th, 2012
1:59 pm
…nearly as devastating as citing the “57 states” death-ray.
so I’m 2 for 2?
…just tryin to keep it lite
Mick
September 25th, 2012
2:01 pm
stevie
If I were just elected president, I don’t think I would be listening much to eric cantor…obama did cut taxes for the middle class..you are supposed to get a honeymoon period but what did obama get from the senate minority leader?
stevie ray...clowns and jokers
September 25th, 2012
2:02 pm
KEEPS/TAX PAYER
Perhaps is you’d respond to the link I submitted for your consideration instead of contempt prior to investigation, we may actually get somewhere..
You may also want to read The Price of Politics…a Woodward work and offer some factual responses to the tone of the book toward BO or the GOP..they both carry on like a bunch of immature dolts..
Brosephus™
September 25th, 2012
2:02 pm
I see y’all are still harping on taxes. Ezra Klein put forth a post last week that everybody should be forced to read before spouting off about the 47% or effective rates or anything else…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/
Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he’s not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.
That’s the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it’s a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.
But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He’s paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who’s not getting a fair shake?
…
But here is really the only tax graph you need: It’s total tax burden by income group. And as you’ll see, every income group is paying something, and the rich aren’t paying much more, as a percentage of their incomes, then the middle class.
That’s really what the American tax system looks like: Not 47 percent paying nothing, but everybody paying something, and most Americans paying between 25 percent and 30 percent of their income — which is, by the way, a lot more the 13.9 percent Mitt Romney paid in 2011*.
And here’s a direct link to the chart he’s talking about.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/total-tax-bill-income.jpg
JamVet
September 25th, 2012
2:03 pm
SR, in my useless opinion, experience, in and of itself, is a card very overplayed these days.
George was – ON PAPER – eminently qualified to be the president.
His glaring lack of intellectual curiosity and heft in his 2000 campaign, however was for me, an obvious indication that he was going to be a mental lightweight by presidential standards.
Even so, I had no idea that his ethical integrity would be equally disappointing…
BHO is as qualified as anyone to be POTUS.
Because to date he, like all of his predecessors for the past forty years, has dutifully taken his marching orders from the men on Wall Street who own and run Washington DC…
Don't Tread
September 25th, 2012
2:03 pm
0bama: “…the United States will do what we must to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.”
I’m sure Ahmanahole is quaking in his boots.
RB from Gwinnett
September 25th, 2012
2:03 pm
Paul, “Didja catch the real gem, though? Guy made a bad investment and he thinks it’s dandy the other taxpayers cover part of his losses ‘cause that’s the way the tax laws are written, don’tcha’ know?”
I didn’t write the code, Paul, but if you expect me to not take full advantage of it, you are an idiot.
I notice there isn’t any snarky remarks about the $13k I paid in property taxes. I wonder why.
Stands, was any of what you listed used in that 22% number because none of it counts.