Take a sober look at military option against Iran

We have learned, one would hope, not to wade into another war blindly optimistic about what it might accomplish or what costs it might entail. Given the rhetoric and bluster bandied about regarding Iran, however, some have learned those lessons less well than others.

A group of foreign policy experts calling itself the Iran Project has undertaken a study of the potential benefits and costs of military intervention against Iran by the United States and Israel. Its work has been endorsed by well-known figures in the foreign-policy field such as former U.S. Sens. Sam Nunn and Chuck Hagel, former national security advisers Zbigniew Brzezinski and Brent Scowcroft, and seven former generals or admirals with extensive military experience in the Middle East.

The report, available here, takes as a given that “a nuclear-armed Iran would pose dangerous challenges to U.S. interests and security, as well as to the security of Israel.” It simply attempts to lay out in clear fashion both the potential benefits and costs of attempting to solve that problem through military means.

Among their findings, authors of the report suggest that a military attack by Israel would succeed in delaying Iran’s nuclear program by two years at best. The United States, with its additional resources, could set the effort back by as long as four years, but would then be forced to repeat the process on a fairly regular basis over an extended period of time. Once undertaken, such attacks would greatly reduce the chances of eventually ending the program by non-military means.

“In fact,” the report states, “we believe that a U.S. attack on Iran would increase Iran’s motivation to build a bomb, because 1) the Iranian leadership would become more convinced than ever that regime change is the goal of U.S. policy, and 2) building a bomb would be seen as a way to inhibit future attacks and redress the humiliation of being attacked.” It also concludes that resistance within Iran to the current regime would all but disappear as the Iranian people rally against outside invaders.

The authors also warn that “In addition to costing the U.S. economy hundreds of billions of dollars yearly, a sustained conflict would boost the price of oil and further disrupt an already fragile world economy.”

Given their backgrounds, we can assume that the authors of the report are privy to discussions in Washington that the rest of us are not. That makes one section of their report particularly chilling:

“Privately, some national security experts and advisors may have embraced the more modest objective of delaying Iran’s ability to build a nuclear weapon, as a step toward prevention; but some others may have embraced objectives that are far broader than official statements currently suggest. Even in order to fulfill the stated objective of ensuring that Iran never acquires a nuclear bomb, the U.S. would need to conduct a significantly expanded air and sea war over a prolonged period of time, likely several years. If the U.S. decided to seek a more ambitious objective, such as regime change in Iran or undermining Iran’s influence in the region, then an even greater commitment of force would be required to occupy all or part of the country.

Given Iran’s large size and population, and the strength of Iranian nationalism, we estimate that the occupation of Iran would require a commit- ment of resources and personnel greater than what the U.S. has expended over the past 10 years in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.” (emphasis original).

In addition to the significant financial costs of conducting such attacks, the report warns, “serious costs to U.S. interests would also be felt over the longer term, we believe, with problematic consequences for global and regional stability, including economic stability. A dynamic of escalation, action, and counteraction could produce serious unintended consequences that would significantly increase all of these costs and lead, potentially, to all-out regional war.”

The decision to use military power, to put American lives on the line and to make ourselves vulnerable to the unknowable consequences that war always brings, must never be made lightly. Certainly, such a profound decision must never be subcontracted out to the leadership of another country. And while leaders who want to take the American people to war have an obligation to be honest and forthright, citizens have an equal obligation to educate themselves as well as possible about its potential risks and costs.

It is, after all, our sons and daughters, and those of our friends and neighbors, who will be asked to carry out that policy.

– Jay Bookman

677 comments Add your comment

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:24 am

“The decision to use military power, to put American lives on the line and to make ourselves vulnerable to the unknowable consequences that war always brings, must never be made lightly.”

oh, Jay – that’s just defeatist talk – don’t you know, we’re ‘MURICA! our colors don’t run! hooooo-rah! (particularly as long as someone else’s sons and daughters are the ones doing the fighting)

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:25 am

ooooo … just back from lunch and STILL firsties.

King of Everything

September 25th, 2012
8:28 am

FACTS do not matter. Defense contractors are dependent on Government and thinks they are entitled so we need to give them more handouts, as long as I don’t know anyone who is actually fighting the field.

stands for decibels

September 25th, 2012
8:28 am

The United States, with its additional resources, could set the effort back by as long as four years, but would then be forced to repeat the process on a fairly regular basis over an extended period of time.

I know we can’t actually decapitate and place atop pikes the heads of those elected officials who suggest that such a course of action would be a great idea.

But I will admit there are times when I wish we could.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:29 am

JAY,

I couldn’t agree more…seems to me our “interests” are primarily oil and to a much lesser extent (certainly by Obama) protecting Israel….

I’ve become quite the pacifist over time…in retrospect, I don’t see that we have lost military lives for a legitimate reason since WWII.

The people of IRAN need to motivate changes..although the temptation of whacking Almondidiscoopydoo while he is here presents…well..as mentioned yesterday, we can always make it look like some IRAN freedom fighters did it:-)

getalife

September 25th, 2012
8:30 am

We are broke remember?

How do you pay for it?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:31 am

KING,

Spot on about DoD contractors owning DC…seems the bravado associated with sending our military people into harms way or otherwise attempting regime change hasn’t worked out too well for us…

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:33 am

“in retrospect, I don’t see that we have lost military lives for a legitimate reason since WWII”

word.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:33 am

GETALIFE,

Don’t be silly we borrow from some of Irans’ allies…China, whomever:-)

If we could get that 2% of total revenues from the evil rich, we can lever that to borrow a pile of dough…although I’d bet our interest rate would increase..

Deficit is our biggest security exposure..

Jay

September 25th, 2012
8:33 am

Stevie Ray, Ahmadinejad is a symptom of the problem, not its cause. Remove him, and somebody even crazier is likely to replace him.

Aquagirl

September 25th, 2012
8:34 am

We need to approach this like the Brady Bunch episode where Peter stood up to the bully teasing his lispy sister. Because international relations work just like that.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:34 am

“Almondidiscoopydoo ”

I thought it was “I’mamaddinnerjacket”

Peadawg

September 25th, 2012
8:35 am

“It is, after all, our sons and daughters, and those of our friends and neighbors, who will be asked to carry out that policy.”

Not Romney’s sons or daughters.

I really do believe that it should be a REQUIREMENT that the President serve in the military. Just like being a natural citizen, 35 yrs old, etc. etc.

TaxPayer

September 25th, 2012
8:35 am

Uh Oh! Don’t let the Republican politicians see this. They’ll adopt it as their new jobs plan.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

September 25th, 2012
8:37 am

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…

September 25th, 2012
8:29 am
JAY,

I couldn’t agree more…seems to me our “interests” are primarily oil and to a much lesser extent (certainly by Obama) protecting Israel….

I’ve become quite the pacifist over time…in retrospect, I don’t see that we have lost military lives for a legitimate reason since WWII.

The people of IRAN need to motivate changes..although the temptation of whacking Almondidiscoopydoo while he is here presents…well..as mentioned yesterday, we can always make it look like some IRAN freedom fighters did it:-)
.
.
.
Wrong-a-roo on Obama in the first paragraph….Ehud Barak and I think
that’s nonsense

Other than that, a well thought out post.

getalife

September 25th, 2012
8:37 am

It is called the mic. Military Industrial complex a Republican warned us about. Yes, it is trillion dollar welfare and one time I was shopping a Walmart and saw a General with bling driving a Hummer and he paid with a government check :)

stands for decibels

September 25th, 2012
8:37 am

Stevie Ray, Ahmadinejad is a symptom of the problem, not its cause. Remove him, and somebody even crazier is likely to replace him.

well, if you “remove him” by, as SR suggests, “whacking” him, you’ve committed an act of war.

There’d be no blaming that on some Sunni refugee lone wolf even if it were, you know, an actual Sunni refugee lone wolf that dunnit.

Indeed, one should probably pray for Achmadinnerjacket’s continued good health, in that regard.

King of Everything

September 25th, 2012
8:37 am

Warning! Woe be unto America if we elect another draft dodger to the Presidency this November.

TaxPayer

September 25th, 2012
8:38 am

Rule Number One: If you want to war monger, then first impose a war tax to fund it. A highly progressive war tax that is based on one’s personal wealth given that those with the most have the most to lose and should therefore pay the most in order to protect their larger assets.

Not Blind

September 25th, 2012
8:40 am

Don’t worry, your joke in chief has a strategy sure to bring about positive change in the world situation.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:40 am

“Rule Number One: If you want to war monger, then first impose a war tax to fund it. A highly progressive war tax that is based on one’s personal wealth given that those with the most have the most to lose and should therefore pay the most in order to protect their larger assets.”

eeeeeyup … kind of like what they did during the Civil War when you could buy your way out of serving

Jay

September 25th, 2012
8:41 am

But the good thing is, War is Very Very Good Indeed for Big Business.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:43 am

JAY,

I agree and was just jesting…the thought is tempting…

GRANNY,

I think Obama’s ME foreign policy outcomes speak for themselves…and he is treating the Zionists with less respect than any other president I can think of…to think BO went to Vegas to raise money and on the VIEW while all this is going on speaks volumes..

stands for decibels

September 25th, 2012
8:43 am

Don’t worry, your joke in chief has a strategy

I’ll take his approach to that of the “s’cuse me while I whip this out” approach of the neocon crap-for-brains any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Gotta go produce, kids. Don’t step in any elephant dung while I’m away, if you can help it.

Gravy Train

September 25th, 2012
8:44 am

I challenge any one of you ditto heads to show proof that any of the sons or daughters of the drum beaters will actually be serving along side regular folks like me. I also dare you to show me how we’re going to pay for it all, especially when people like Willard think it’s acceptable to be partial citizens. If you want to fight in Iran, nothing is stopping you from buying a plane ticket and going there yourself. I hear the plutocratic theocracy loves foreign agitators over there. Uncle Sam needs a break.

Gravy Train

September 25th, 2012
8:45 am

Former generals and war profiteers beating the war drums. No way!

getalife

September 25th, 2012
8:45 am

Stevie Ray,

Point taken. Can’t Iran just buy a nuke from China or Russia for a big oil deal?

Paul

September 25th, 2012
8:47 am

That’s quite a ‘who’s who’ list of signatories. I believe they’re all noticeably absent from Romney’s foreign policy advisory team.

I’ll keep pounding this drum: attacking Iran would be only the second example we have of the modern US conducting a preventive war – going to war with a country to stop something we think might happen. Not that we know will happen, not against a direct act of aggression against us, but just something we imagine. Only other time we’ve done that has been with Iraq and we all know how that turned out.

An underdiscussed part of that report is that historically, external attacks that threaten the viability of a nation serve to unite the populace regardless of their leadership. We saw it with Russia in WWII – fighting for Mother Russia despite the depredations of Stalin, to cite but one example. So if we want to strengthen the hold of the mullahs, wipe out any antigovernment opposition and perpetuate extremists in power, then by all means we should attack.

There are opposing viewpoints. General Jack Keane, military analyst for Fox News, was on yesterday on this very topic. When he was asked what Iran would do in response to an attack he replied “Oh, not much because they don’t want a war with the US. We’d destroy their military and it would turn out badly for them.”

Even generals can be naive.

The only reason we’d attack is because of fear of what Iran might do. And as we all know (being generous, here) acting out of fear does not lead to good decisions.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:47 am

TAXPAYER,

That’s fine and well but how much can you really expect the evil rich to pay? The current request is only 2% of revenues…can’t give much assault for $80 billion a year…especially when we will shortly be spending $200 billion a year to keep the BS HC bill alive…

Let’s learn our lesson and stop sticking our noses under these folks tents…

JAY,

It’s terrific business to be certain…some idiot will suggest it will do wonders for job creation…

Lord Help Us

September 25th, 2012
8:47 am

‘Take a sober look at military option against Iran’

SOBER?!?

It’s almost 9am/ No way the Digit Idgit is still sober at 9…

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:47 am

“while all this is going on”

and I couldn’t disagree more.

the minute the president changes his schedule because of a bunch of rioters in another country, he elevates their importance and turns it into more than what it is. which is a bunch of rioters – not an act of war.

Lord Help Us

September 25th, 2012
8:48 am

‘I believe they’re all noticeably absent from Romney’s foreign policy advisory team.’

Although it would be cool to do a side by side comparison to Romney’s advisers just for grins…

Gravy Train

September 25th, 2012
8:49 am

I predict Willard’s sons will be on the first plane to Europe to serve a “mission” for their cult. I’m sure they have had hands laid on them by now and have their “true priesthood.” The best writers in Hollywood couldn’t make this stuff up. Ditto-heads will buy anything with a flag on his lapel and an (R) next to his name.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:49 am

GETALIFE,

I’m sure if they haven’t already, they have several on lay-a-way with NKorea, China or the Russia..

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

September 25th, 2012
8:49 am

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…

September 25th, 2012

GRANNY,

I think Obama’s ME foreign policy outcomes speak for themselves…and he is treating the Zionists with less respect than any other president I can think of…to think BO went to Vegas to raise money and on the VIEW while all this is going on speaks volumes..
.
.
.
Again, I and Ehud Barak don’t agree.

I suggest the opinion of the Defense Minister of Israel is signifigantly
more informed that yours.

Jay

September 25th, 2012
8:49 am

Stevie Ray, Obama did not go to Vegas to raise money.

Again, there was no fundraiser in Vegas.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:50 am

” I believe they’re all noticeably absent from Romney’s foreign policy advisory team.”

Foreign policy advisors??? why, I wonder who IS on that team!!!

hey, lookee there!! it’s the same team that brought us “Mess-o-potamia” (as JStewart called it)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/14/mitt-romney-foreign-policy-advisers

John Bolton, Den Senor, Robert Kagan

gee, what’s not to like with THAT team …

b-troll

September 25th, 2012
8:50 am

“and lead, potentially, to all-out regional war”

I’m afraid war is inevitable. Sadly. Just a matter of when.

Would you prefer to have a war with a nuclear armed Iran, or one that does not have nuclear weapons?

I’ll take the latter.

“We will exterminate Israel” – Ahmadinejad

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/24/us-un-assembly-ahmadinejad-idUSBRE88N0HF20120924

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:51 am

GRAVYTRAIN,

Wouldn’t surprise me in the least but they’d have to compete with other cults (not to discount Tim Tebow) to get top billing…I think we encourage all to head to Syria or Libya..

Gravy Train

September 25th, 2012
8:51 am

Jay, off topic, but I have been trying to get Kyle to expose the plutocrats that are really running the show for the GOP. I think he is trying very hard to project “party unity” with his shameless promotion of one Willard Romney, poster boy of the plutocrat. Would you consider a blog on this topic before election day?

Paul

September 25th, 2012
8:52 am

Peadawg

“I really do believe that it should be a REQUIREMENT that the President serve in the military. Just like being a natural citizen, 35 yrs old, etc. etc.”

Think about some of the exmilitary types here who broadcast their service as a superior basis for their opinions.

Does four years’ duty maybe sitting in a foxhole and taking orders really give one an edge on big-picture national security issues?

You sure you want such a limited pool of candidates?

DannyX

September 25th, 2012
8:52 am

Hopefully Romney will be elected so we can start paying for the Iran war immediately, with huge tax cuts. It worked in Iraq.

b-troll

September 25th, 2012
8:52 am

“there was no fundraiser in Vegas.”

What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

b-troll

September 25th, 2012
8:53 am

“We are broke remember?

How do you pay for it?”

For better or worse, bombs are comparatively cheap.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:54 am

“Would you prefer to have a war with a nuclear armed Iran, or one that does not have nuclear weapons?”

wow. that’s going out on a limb, there.

does that mean you’re volunteering to go down inside the mountain where they’re “not” producing nuclear weapons?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/09/us-nuclear-iran-iaea-idUSTRE8080KT20120109

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 25th, 2012
8:54 am

Thoughtful deliberate calculation of risks and rewards vs. cowboy tough mentality of shoot first and see what happens. A real President vs Bush and Bush wannabe 2– oh the choices.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
8:54 am

JAY,

Noted…but was he campaigning in Vegas while the ME is on fire? Nothing is happening in DC…this is the 30% of the time our corruptresentatives spend not governing…

The View? Really..did he use our tax dollars to attend?

Why is he once again, gone AWOL during this time? Is there nothing he can do or is he waiting for re-election so “he will have more flexibility”…??

Peadawg

September 25th, 2012
8:55 am

“Does four years’ duty maybe sitting in a foxhole and taking orders really give one an edge on big-picture national security issues?”

No not necessarily. But then they’ll know what it’s like before they send our 18 yr old overseas.

Paul

September 25th, 2012
8:56 am

Lord Help Us

“Although it would be cool to do a side by side comparison to Romney’s advisers just for grins…”

Jay had a thread on Romney’s foreign policy advisory team.

It’s onward to the past and Iraq II.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:56 am

“but was he campaigning in Vegas while the ME is on fire?”

again – you stop everything you’re doing then you MAKE them important.

Gale

September 25th, 2012
8:56 am

Pumping money and arms into the middle east has exacerbated what seems to me to be tribal disputes.

nelson

September 25th, 2012
8:56 am

I saw CBS this morning. Charley Rose and co. were interviewing the Iranian President. One of the questions asked was would the President like to apologize for a statement he made that Israel should not even be there, The Iranian President replied, “apologize for what, what I said was true”. That was the end of that, the lesson is, when the fella being interviewed is not running for office like Mitt, the same rough tatics do not work.”

F. Sinkwich

September 25th, 2012
8:57 am

A nuclear Iran?

No big deal, just another bump in the road.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 25th, 2012
8:57 am

According to the conned, the President (well as least Dem Presidents) should never leave the White House and apparently they have no way to keep up with events while traveling and must micromanage every aspect of government. :roll: Oh wait Carter did that, them cons love Carter. :roll:

Paul

September 25th, 2012
8:57 am

b-troll

“I’m afraid war is inevitable. ”

Hopefully you have more than one press-conference quote from an elected official who’s nearing the end of his term to take the US into war?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

September 25th, 2012
8:58 am

Well, I say let’s get this over and done with. Little Nathan Zell George is pretty near 4 now and I want the wars out of the way before he turns 18. Course, I reckon I could get him in a colledge. That’s the way the rich people keep their kids out of the military.

I’m a Red White and Blue American Patriot except when it comes to turning my kin into cannon fodder. Besides, we could use the jobs that all those defense contractors would be creating.

Have a good Tuesday everybody.l

Jay

September 25th, 2012
8:58 am

Jack Keane: He’s the genius who insisted that we keep our troops in Iraq, regardless of what the Iraqis said, because we had to protect the Iraqi democracy.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

September 25th, 2012
8:58 am

AWOL? Stevie really?

I’m quite sure wherever he goes he remains connected.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
8:59 am

awwwwwwww … how cute! F Sink got his meme for the day

getalife

September 25th, 2012
9:00 am

Funny, how Israel bombed the Syria “nuke site” without any warmongering.

I hope they are working on stopping drones from bombing us.

b-troll

September 25th, 2012
9:00 am

(off topic)

Looks like the MARTA critics were right.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/transportation/marta-needs-to-privatize-functions-revamp-employee/nSKwS/

back to regular scheduled programming….

Paul

September 25th, 2012
9:00 am

Peadawg

I understand that point of view, but I would offer that service, particularly in peacetime, particularly in a nonfrontline unit, may not have the desired effect for all who serve.

I’m just pretty leery of extra-constitutional requirements that would be imposed for decades to come.

A dad

September 25th, 2012
9:01 am

Agree 100% with b-troll that war with Islam is inevitable, and anyone who thinks otherwise is incredibly naive. The political “leaders” do not control their countries; rather, it is the mullahs, the majority of which are extremist (recent events should confirm that). Islam does not accept other religions. The options, as I have said before (after doing a bit of studying) are three: convert; convert by the sword, or die because you are an infidel. Look at recent history, not just the hubbub about the film. Stoning people to death for “insults” to Muhammed, including children? Slitting the throats of one’s own daughters to avenge the family’s honor because the girls happened to have the bad luck to have been raped by soldiers? Folks, this is not a religion, or at least not as practiced by the millions and millions of people we see storming our embassies, burning our flag, murdering each other (shi’ite v. sunni), who have no respect for any law other than sharia, etc. The solution for Iran is somewhat simplistic, and it involves a large number of nuclear-tipped tomahawks. Does anyone really believe they are not seeking to build a nuclear weapon and once they have it, will use it against Israel? And for all the female libs on this site, imagine yourself forced to wear a burkha. Or the only time you can leave your house is in the company of a male relative. Blogging in this site? Fuggitaboutit! Hmmm, guess there are some upsides to islamic law….

TaxPayer

September 25th, 2012
9:01 am

Sort of off topic:

Apple supplier’s factory in China resumes production after brawl highlights labor tensions.

Word from Mitt is that the security forces at the plant successfully repelled the army of poor people outside the fence that came demanding jobs at the plant.

kayaker 71

September 25th, 2012
9:01 am

Make no mistake, the Grand Ayatollah Ali Hosseini Khamenei runs the show in Iran. The Little Iranian is just a mouthpiece. The shots are being called way up the line.

Out By The Pond

September 25th, 2012
9:01 am

I am officially a moocher, filed for my SS. Do not start any wars before 2020, I want to make sure I withdrawal all my contributions. Oh Willard, can I remain a moocher if I pay a higher effective tax rate than you? I bet the oil revenue we get from taken over wells in Iran will more than pay for the war, a new car for every American, as well as a chicken in every pot.

Aquagirl

September 25th, 2012
9:02 am

No not necessarily. But then they’ll know what it’s like before they send our 18 yr old overseas.

Flying around Alabama didn’t stop GW Bush from sending our 18 year olds overseas into one of the dumbest wars ever.

How about we just elect people who aren’t testosterone-poisoned cowboys? That seems a lot simpler.

Doggone/GA

September 25th, 2012
9:03 am

“According to the conned, the President (well as least Dem Presidents) should never leave the White House”

and if he DID do that…they’d say he was out of touch with the American people

GA Dawg

September 25th, 2012
9:03 am

By leaking this anti-american garbage, it has boldened the enemy and made it more difficult to be a brave american and fight the enemy. This is treason and has hurt the working man’s attitude to fighting for America.

TaxPayer

September 25th, 2012
9:04 am

For better or worse, bombs are comparatively cheap.

Now if only you can negotiate a good delivery rate with FedeX, you’ll be set.

Peadawg

September 25th, 2012
9:04 am

“How about we just elect people who aren’t testosterone-poisoned cowboys?”

Fine by me. Who do you have in mind besides Obama and Romney?

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
9:05 am

kayaker – 9:01 – totally agree.

Welcome to the Occupation

September 25th, 2012
9:05 am

Given Iran’s large size and population, and the strength of Iranian nationalism, we estimate that the occupation of Iran would require a commitment of resources and personnel greater than what the U.S. has expended over the past 10 years in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.” (emphasis original).

It’s simply a fact that a way is going to have to be found to put to work all the scores of people left out of work by this ongoing crisis of capitalism, to which no end is in sight. When an FDR-style works program continues to be off the table and out of the question, these are the types of mass projects that are going to have to be considered. Simply to sustain some measure of social stability and minimize social tension. It will fail miserably of course, just as Iraq and Afghanistan have failed. But failure never stops these people from plowing ahead sooner or later.

Marty Huggins'

September 25th, 2012
9:05 am

Jay,

I glanced at the report, I am assuming you have read the entire report.

Honestly I just don’t feel like reading it all in detail right now.

Do you know if the report assessed the financial effect of Iran developing and using a nuke?

How would that cost compare to the cost of prevention and how much life would be expected lost if Iran did comete development and then fire the weapon.

By the rhetoric it is very conceivable that if the weapon is obtained Iran will use it given the wipe them off the map comments.

Just trying to access the cost of not acting as well

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
9:05 am

JAY,

Here is the exact “mute” text from Woodward…Obama called the speakers office an Pelosi put him on speakerphone near the window so everyone could hear…He delivered a high-minded message…they were going to save the economy with this bill, everything was at stake….

Thank you Mr P said Reid

Pelosi said she understood and we get it.

But the president wasn’t done ..warming to his subject, he continued with an uplifting speech

Pelosi reached over and pressed mute….they could hear Obama but he couldn’t hear them. The president continued speaking, his disembodied voice filling the room while the two leaders got back to the hard numbers….’

I can see where his words are easily “taken out of context” but the fact remains it took the “urging of Emanuel to get Obama involved to weigh in and engage…at the last minute mind you while the house was trying to get the numbers to a level that would avoid filibuster…

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

September 25th, 2012
9:06 am

This is not about oil. You have to ask yourself a few questions. Can they ( Iran) build nukes. Absolutely.
Would they use them on Israel. My guess is about a 75% chance. The question we have to ask ourselves…..does Israel have nukes now? If so, Does Iran go out with a bang knowing they took all of Israel out but have 50 nukes coming at them from Israel crossing in air of each other thus Iran is over as a country forever? My guess is Iran wants nukes to bully their way in the region with constant threats to use them.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
9:07 am

“Fine by me. Who do you have in mind besides Obama and Romney?”

oh, all right … I’ll serve as President.

(my platform: no Christmas decorations out before Thanksgiving, everyone gets their birthday off from work and school, and a national nap from 1:30-3 to make the country a happier place)

ByteMe - Got ilk?

September 25th, 2012
9:09 am

If the U.S. decided to seek a more ambitious objective, such as regime change in Iran or undermining Iran’s influence in the region, then an even greater commitment of force would be required to occupy all or part of the country.

And Dick Cheney rumbles, “I proved that facts don’t matter.”

getalife

September 25th, 2012
9:09 am

wolf asked dan senor about Dowd’s piece on the neocons slithering back with romney and his response was it was not worthy of comment.

Two failed occupations not worthy of comment?

They want another one in Iran if the people don’t stop them.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 25th, 2012
9:09 am

GETALIFE,

He is then setting himself up for criticism as the optics are dismal…also, labeling the death of ambassador a “bump in the road” (not sure he was referring to LIbya or the whole mess in the ME). provides more fodder for GOP cannon…he sh$t the bed in that 60 minutes interview..

ByteMe - Got ilk?

September 25th, 2012
9:10 am

oh, all right … I’ll serve as President.

Better Food 2012!!

Peadawg

September 25th, 2012
9:11 am

USinUK – thug with a uterus … and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
9:07 am

Wow…I think I’m going to write in “USinUK” on the ballot. That platform is actually pretty freakin’ awesome.

Aquagirl

September 25th, 2012
9:11 am

oh, all right … I’ll serve as President.

See, Peadawg? Problem solved. :)

Welcome to the Occupation

September 25th, 2012
9:13 am

Aquagirl: “We need to approach this like the Brady Bunch episode where Peter stood up to the bully teasing his lispy sister”

Yeah, they do alright. But figuring out who actually is the bully, that can be a trickier thing in int’ntl affairs.

getalife

September 25th, 2012
9:13 am

“I’m sure if they haven’t already, they have several on lay-a-way with NKorea, China or the Russia”

Thank you for shopping at Commie Mart.

Thomas Heyward Jr

September 25th, 2012
9:13 am

Our Central Planners in Washington should just stick with the War on Women, War on Poverty, and maybe the War on Drugs for now.
.
Forward Soviet!

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
9:14 am

P’dawg – hey, I know how to bring people together!

oh, and yes, better baked goods for a better America!

Marty Huggins'

September 25th, 2012
9:14 am

USinUK – thug with a uterus … and former Girl Scout
September 25th, 2012
9:07 am

Any flexibility on that nap time I get tired at 12 and then I’m fine by 2.

If this is rigid I’m sorry I cannot support you.

Fred ™

September 25th, 2012
9:14 am

If Iran wants a nuke so bad I say we give them one. Hell give them several. Nuke the whole Country wait a few days to see if anyone survived and then nuke them again.

We won’t have to go back in two to four years no matter WHAT Sam Nunn says………..

godless heathen

September 25th, 2012
9:15 am

Is there any difference between legally avoiding the draft and failing to volunteer for military service?

curious

September 25th, 2012
9:16 am

God help us!

Thomas Heyward Jr

September 25th, 2012
9:16 am

And it’s pushing October……… The War on Christmas will surely be heating up.

USinUK - thug with a uterus ... and former Girl Scout

September 25th, 2012
9:16 am

Marty – yes, I’m totally flexible on the naptime (my issue is usually the post-lunch food coma, but I understand that other people have different nap-related needs)

kayaker 71

September 25th, 2012
9:16 am

Who believes that eventually, we will have to confront Islam and the Muslim world?

getalife

September 25th, 2012
9:18 am

Stevie,

You can’t beat him on national security.

mitt is a rookie that went beserk after the attack and called our President a terrorist sympathyzer.

Don't Tread

September 25th, 2012
9:18 am

I wonder what a nuclear attack by Iran against Israel would do for the economy and the price of oil?

It’s a good thing Israel isn’t counting on you for anything. :roll:

TaxPayer

September 25th, 2012
9:19 am

better baked goods for a better America!

Now you’re cookin’ with gas.

mm

September 25th, 2012
9:19 am

The US defense budget has tripled since 1997.

The US spends 58% of the defense money spent by the top 10 military powers.

The US outspends China on defense 6 to 1.

Enough is enough. This is purely corporate welfare.

getalife

September 25th, 2012
9:20 am

Instead of mindlessly warmongering for a decade, they should be working on peace.

Gravy Train

September 25th, 2012
9:20 am

Yeah, because Pakistan has dropped how many of their nukes on India? Why are you begrudging the Iranian plutocratic theocracy for wanting a bigger, new saber to rattle? Let the Iranians deal with removal of the problem, they have to live there. Also, I would think that they would be highly susceptible to the resulting fall out. Who wants to live under a nuclear cloud?