Poll reveals deep doubts about economic fairness

Bain-owned cable STB company files for bankruptcy

More Robme business skills.

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more polling – Romney winning the Middle Class

In our latest POLITICO-George Washington University Battleground Poll with middle-class families, which comprise about 54 percent of the total American electorate and usually split in their vote behavior between Republicans and Democrats, Romney holds a 14-point advantage (55 percent to 41 percent). Middle-class families are more inclined to believe the country is on the wrong track (34 percent right direction, 62 percent wrong track), are more likely to hold an unfavorable view of Obama (48 percent favorable, 51 percent unfavorable), and hold a more favorable view of Romney (51 percent favorable, 44 percent unfavorable) and Paul Ryan (46 percent favorable, 35 percent unfavorable) than the overall electorate. These middle-class families also hold a majority disapproval rating on the job Obama is doing as president (45 percent approve, 54 percent disapprove), and turn even more negative toward Obama on specific areas; the economy 56 percent disapprove; spending 61 percent disapprove; taxes, 53 percent disapprove; Medicare 48 percent disapprove; and even foreign policy 50 percent disapprove.

(Also on POLITICO: Mitt: Fundraising focus Obama’s fault)

All of this data make clear that Romney has won the strong support of middle-class families and is leading the president on an overwhelming majority of key measurements beyond just the ballot. In fact, when respondents were asked who, Obama or Romney, would best handle a variety of issues, Romney led on all but one including the economy (+9 percent), foreign policy (+3 percent), spending (+15 percent), taxes (+7 percent), Medicare (+2 percent), and jobs (+10 percent). Ironically, the one measurement Obama led Romney on was “standing up for the middle class” (+8 Obama), reinforcing that often the Democrats win the message war with the middle class, but not their hearts and souls.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81584.html#ixzz27PtOibvk

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NYTimes has a great article about working-class youth vote:

“Struggling Young Adults Are Question Mark for Campaigns”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/us/politics/struggling-young-adults-pose-challenge-for-campaigns.html

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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81584.html#ixzz27PtOibvk

Thrice repeated drudgey spam.

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As am over 50 white college educated male earning above the median salary, I am in the minority. Now where is my handout?

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This is a worthwhile corrective almost anytime you see a national result for any class of voters or any trend over the past 40 years. The massive shift of the Southern vote from Democratic to Republican is, by far, the biggest electoral change in the past few decades, and it often overwhelms national survey results. It’s something you should always at least think about when you read an article about big changes in the electorate: is this really a national change, or is it mostly driven by changes in the South?”

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“…a plurality (44%) believe that capitalism and the free market system
are at odds with Christian values…..”

I like this number & this particular finding.
because this shows the white working class is starting to ‘figure out’
the trickle-down-jaysus con scam

The cons’ last bastion of base is crumbling.

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JHM – sorry, the poll is the poll. Romney winning the middle class.

Split hairs all you want. The data is the data.

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“drudgey spam”

Kamspam. Repeated too many times to count.

I read politico. Not drudge.

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“…a plurality (44%) believe that capitalism and the free market system
are at odds with Christian values…..”
*************

Joel Osteen, you got some ’splainin to do.

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a plurality (44%) believe that capitalism and the free market system
are at odds with Christian values…..”

is that supposed to mean or imply that they are anti-capitalism or anti-free market?

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“anti-free market?”

Wouldn’t that make them Republicans?

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“I didn’t think ”

Yes, you’ve made that apparent

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JAY,

So what is your point? I thought I was master of the obvious:-)

And what exactly will increasing revenue by 2% do anything other than make a political point? Where is the other 98% coming from and where is President Trillions plan for that? Same file as energy plan, foreign policy etcetera?

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libs should read

…sez the guy who didn’t even read the link he posted.

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And those results, fellow bloggers, illustrate why the current lalaland Republican Party continues to lose ground.

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Christianity is compatible with capitalism. While I’m sure everyone on the blog knows stories of some capitalists who don’t “walk the walk,” as the saying goes, ask yourself if it’s really capitalism that’s causing the problem. Look closer at the wrongdoer who comes to your mind, and you’re likely to find that greed, not capitalism, is causing the wrongdoing. Gotta go for now, but I’ll check back later and see if anyone can come up with a story of any capitalists who fulfill the two great commandments (love God and love their neighbor–and I don’t mean just lip service) but still show values contrary to Christianity.

One caution: I’m not going to get bogged down in semantics. If you want to point out slight differences among Christians and ask which version of Christianity I’m talking about, consult the poll or the pollsters. Whatever definition you find is fine with me.

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JAY,

Good…so I retain the title of Master of the Obvious…

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“ask yourself if it’s really capitalism that’s causing the problem.”

Of course it isn’t. Any economic system is neutral. It exists to be used. It’s WHO uses it and HOW it’s used that can be for good or ill.

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JHM

“you misrepresented the Republican analysis of it ON THAT SITE as the actual poll itself.”

I did nothing of the sort bud.

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“Romney’s lead among working-class white Americans could also be explained by his massive margin here in the South, where he led by 40 points, 62 percent to 22 percent.”

That is because a lot of the “white working-class) in the South don’t like people of his skin hue.

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Stevie Ray – ” I wish someone could tell me what an equitable system looks like..and more importantly could get done with the BS system we have now…”

Just Google “Economic Growth from 1945 to 1965″ and you will find that a combination of taxes, government and business all working together can actually accomplish a great many things.

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The dynamic duo of Romney and Ryan would drive the entire economy into a nose dive as long as it benefits the richest Americans. Income inequality is endangering the Middle Class and making paupers of us all who don’t have those millions upon millions of dollars. Read more about the role of Romney’s riches in this election and the power of his sacred undergarments at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2012/05/mitt-romneys-magic-mormon-underwear.html The working class of our country can’t AFFORD to allow this election to be bought and sold!

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b-troll — “I did nothing of the sort bud”

You most certainly did.

3:20 PM — “more polling – Romney winning the Middle Class”

That wasn’t the poll; it was Republican analysis of it.

3:27 PM — “JHM – sorry, the poll is the poll. Romney winning the middle class.”

Except that wasn’t the poll. I posted a link to the poll. You simply posted a link to *analysis* of the poll.

3:27 PM — “Split hairs all you want. The data is the data.”

Analysis =/= data.

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The United States of America is a representative democracy, also called a democratic republic, which is a form of government in which the people elect officials to represent them.

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from Jay’s linked pdf:

Equal numbers of white working-class Americans (28%) and white college educated
Americans (27%) identify Fox News as their most trusted media source.

I think you’ll all understand why I felt it necessary to append my screen name.

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*We* don’t give people an equal chance? Who are the *we* of whom you speak? Who should have the power to determine what an *equal chance* is? Anyone with the wisdom to determine that ? What we have learned in this past so so bad bad week for Romney is that Univision has the courage to call Obama a liar; Jake Tapper noted a specific whopper he told; and even CBS got him to reluctantly admit there are lies in some of his campaign ads (though Mr Blamer in Chief did fall back on the democrat default position of *both sides* do it.) So would you trust him to make any judgment at all about what is *fair*?

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Here’s some data for you, b-troll.

Not only is the President leading Mitt Romney with the support of half of all likely voters (50% to 47%), but fully six-in-ten voters now believe Obama will ultimately win, compared to just 30% who express similar confidence about Romney. This is no small point; at this point in the election cycle, voters’ expectations help fuel turnout and influence the last of the undecided voters. Underpinning these expectations is a set of judgments that voters are forming about the two candidates, their visions, and plans for the country.

One can see why Republicans are becoming increasingly desperate. Their attempt to frame the race as a referendum on Obama has failed. Obama is personally popular (53% favorable, 46% unfavorable), especially in toss-up states (57% favorable, 42% unfavorable). Moreover, fully half of voters nationwide approve of the job he is doing as President (50% approve, 48% disapprove), with even higher ratings in toss-up states (55% approve, 44% disapprove). This shift in impressions of the President’s job performance is due, in part, to improvement among independents and white men.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81586.html

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Well, since I’m not part of the White working-class in America, I could care less about this poll. Seems like the Public Religion Research Institute is doing nothing but pushing class and race warfare to gin up support for Romney and Ryan. Why would anybody sanction such a race bating poll as this? Why do they want to divide America?

Just thought I’d play the race/class divide card on this one since most of y’all White folks can’t do it.

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I can’t imagine not being able to figure out the difference between the actual polling numbers and the GOP interpretation.

I can’t imagine not being able to figure out the difference even when someone repeatedly points it out.

Lawdy mercy.

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EC @ 3:50

Don’t confuse him with fact. That makes him angry and bitter.

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At least 50% of those surveyed are below average intelligence. Just because people believe something does not make it so.

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I have a question, do any of these polls breakdown the question – ‘Is the country headed in the right direction?’ – into something more tangible? I’m sure everyone has a different idea of what the correct direction is so I’d love to see more on that.

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Aquagirl — “I can’t imagine not being able to figure out the difference even when someone repeatedly points it out.”

I know, right?

It makes all their complaints about polling bias quite laughable when they don’t even seem to know what they’re looking at most of the time.

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STANDS,

I like that approach…only thing I’d add is a vocational, apprenticed based program similar to what is happening in Germany..if you didn’t see it on CNN late last evening, check it out..

Our kids should have more than just a college prep option…

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JHM – 5 pieces of data in that 3:55 of yours. versus 18 pieces of data in the information I posted. All supported by the poll.

Learn to read.

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Maybe they are just curious.

Oscar

Even though my post was joking, hence the smilies and lauging, make sure to keep your answer to that though handy for the next time somebody does the same kind of thing for minorities. It’s funny that when things are done from a minority perspective, it’s all about sowing division and playing the race card.

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b-troll — JHM – 5 pieces of data in that 3:55 of yours. versus 18 pieces of data in the information I posted.”

Nope. (laughing)

“All supported by the poll.”

All are nothing but spin. Are you really this clueless? (pointing, laughing)

“Learn to read”

Sonny, I’m not the one linking to partisan analysis and trying to claim it’s the actual poll results. (guffaw)

You pretty clearly took your HURRRR pills today.

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Even brown seems inadequate, SR and Bro.

How about tawny copper colored people?!

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JHM thinks the numbers and polls are lies

Pointing. Laughing. At him.

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…the term “box of rocks” comes to mind.

“sack of hair”
“bag of hammers”

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Yes, Oscar, and although I’m no 1 percenter, these policies took money out of my pocket as well. Thing is, I’ll admit that the taxes I’ve paid have benefitted me and others. They seem to think that they get nothing back — like they are some “heroic” Ayn Rand industrialist — when the truth is that many of them were spawned by the middle class and then and now they have benefited greatly from the stability, the educated workforce, the extensive infrastructure, the secure borders, and the rest. More than they would from having a few extra coins to jingle in their pocket.

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Jm

September 24th, 2012
4:12 pm
JHM thinks the numbers and polls are lies

Pointing. Laughing. At him
===========

What a very strange post!

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“If you are successful, you are more likely to tell yourself that the free-market system is an excellent means of sorting the wheat from the chaff.”
———————————————————-

From my perspective, this is an unfortunate way of perceiving one’s fellow men and women. It certainly does not portend well for advancing a spirit of egalitarianism among all people.

Perceiving of some as the “wheat” and others as the “chaff” creates caricatures in thinking of others and it drives wedges between people. That is why we would be wise to try to see both the value of those who work in the free market and the value of those who work as public servants to others. Doing so helps to soften perceptions of our fellowmen and women.

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JHM. Learn to link. This is the actual poll.

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/09/battlegroundpoll.html

All data supported the commentary at top. Facts, not lies. Getaclue.

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Joe, id be very wary of JM.

I would go and check outside if i were you.

That’s strange, pointing and laughing at you .

When all you are doing is responding to a blog post.

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Ahmadinejad says: eliminate Israel

Obama accommodation worked wonders

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Kamchak,

In this sense there is no secular. A person of faith making choices based on their faith is no difference than an atheist making choices based on their faith. Both persons “faith” is affecting how they look at policy.

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…it’s hard not to marvel at Rep. David Rivera’s (R-Fla.) career. The conservative freshman has been investigated by the FBI, IRS, Miami-Dade Police Department’s public corruption unit, the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office, and Florida Department of Law Enforcement over allegations that he abused his office in the state legislature and repeatedly lied on financial disclosure forms… The underlying scheme is rather ridiculous. Rivera, fearful of a challenge from Democrat Joe Garcia, allegedly arranged for Justin Sternad to run against Garcia in a Democratic primary. Sternad, whose personal income is about $30,000 a year, somehow managed to spend $43,000 in unreported cash on direct mail.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) had vowed a “zero tolerance” policy when it comes to misdeeds from congressional Republicans, but has shown no interest in addressing Rivera’s multiple and ongoing scandals.

Hmmm, real potential election “voter fraud” and the GOP is not interested? Now tell me again how voter IDs address this?

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larry — “Joe, id be very wary of JM.”

Nah, he’s harmless. In both the literal and rhetorical senses.

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What I see are entrenched groups that will not change their mindset regardless of the data. Nor will they change their mindset because of the fear of the unknown or perceived known so they keep to their beliefs regardless of what might be happening in front of them. So how can we effect the necessary change this country needs when there are groups that refuse look at what is in front of them?

Please note that this could apply to both sides so even though I’m a Progressive I do see that there are groups on the Left which don’t want to move at all. Face it, this is human nature.

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“while slightly more than one-third (36%) say the government should provide more services, even if it means higher taxes”

Idiots. That’s not the way to cut the deficit.

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Its not October yet …. then SURPRISE!

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Obama manipulating the housing market in advance of the election

The fix is on

The Feds run the housing market and are temporarily pushing it up

Don’t get suckered

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The super rich get off on taxes with Federal welfare…… all while calling the poor lazy.

How about that……

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Citizen of the World

September 24th, 2012
4:24 pm

And where do Republicans have their heads, Jm?
++++++++++++++++++++++

Rhymes with GAS

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I look to the Heavens for the answer…God bless.

No doubt ………. Santa Claus will fly in December !

Taking a long drag on my cigarette…….. yes that should help…….. you getting closer to cancer !

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Obama manipulating the housing market in advance of the election

The fix is on.

Yup just like when Bush was in office… he was able to manipulate it down 15% or more !

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Why are liberals so dumb?

Probably hard to think when you have your head in the sand…

Maybe they are looking for the reason Cost Plus contracts made sense… or the fact the Republican’s believe Deficits don’t matter ?

Or you start 2 wars and cut taxes so you can’t pay for any of it.. so the rational Republican answer is keep the WAR Debt off the deficit…at least while the Republican’s are in the White House !

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Keep Up

Someone on the Right said Pres Obama can throw G-d around?

Wow…. I knew Obama was in good shape, but….. wow……

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Steve Shamrock.. you must have gotten all your info from the Box of Lucky Charms !

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Obama is doing a great job at creating a class war and dividing the nation.

Hopefully, once Obama’s Hope and Change policies can take full effect by 2016, EVERYONE will be middle to low middle class citizens.

Half way there America.

Cheers to 4 more years!

HIP HIP WHOREAY!

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Even after we spend BILLIONS of wasted dollars on kids, they come out of school not able to balance a check book, figure up interest, understand a mortgage or even count change properly with out a computerized cash register.

Some of their parents confuse commentaries with data, so let’s not blame the little apples for falling underneath the clueless tree.

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“People who are trained from birth to believe that they are “victims” of some kind of injustice or the other are easily manipulated and used by smooth lawyers and politicians. The democrats have relied upon this forever and are continuing to do so”

Link, please?

“Even Obama said in the 90’s in an interview that the welfare class was a group to be taken advantage of by politicians in the pursuit of “progressive causes”. ”

Link, please?

Or did you just listen to Rush on the way home today, and hope to seem smart?

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Kam,

Are you saying a person of faith (or no faith) cannot base their vote on their beliefs? That’s not even possible. If they don’t affect your choices then you don’t really believe them to begin with.

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Obama is doing a great job at creating a class war and dividing the nation.

HA HA HA…now I understand the Moon bat part !

HA HA HA !

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“If they don’t affect your choices then you don’t really believe them to begin with”

Not neccessarily. You can fervently believe something and still set aside that belief when you vote. Say, for instance, on the subject of prayer in schools. I believe in prayer and the power of prayer, but I would never vote to make it required in our secular schools.

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Much of the debate over capitalism and religion comes down to how free we really are.

The more freedom you believe individuals have, the more accountability you will demand, and you are more likely to believe people are ultimately responsible for how they end up…rich, poor, heaven, hell, etc. You will focus on the individual more than the larger group.

On the other hand, if you believe peoples’ destinies are greatly effected by random events such as genes, race, intelligence, birthplace, parents, who they happen to know, timing, etc., you are more likely to show mercy and want society to provide safety nets. You will probably be more ;liberal in your politics as well as your religion, and focus more on the larger group than the individual.

Both positions contain truth. The mistake is to go to either extreme and ignore the other side. Many Republicans seem to be far more extreme in their ideas about individual freedom and responsibility than they used to be,

Some people who are born on third base should not claim to have hit a triple.

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Yes, our system favors the rich. Why? All the politicians are rich. All the big donors are rich. Raise your hand if you think Obama is poor?

Now, if you think making life tough on rich people is the answer I’ve got news for you. Won’t happen. They have the means to buy votes or favors. If they can’t in this country then watch how many find another country where it does work.

Everyone knows the answer is to be rich. Otherwise, there would be no need for a Georgia Lottery. Another news flash. Be happy with what you got and don’t get jealous over someone’s good fortune. Someone will always have something you want, or something better than your version. Even Donald Trump looks out every now and then and thinks “Boy, I wish I had …”

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Much of the debate over capitalism and religion comes down to how free we really are.

Or if you have the Religious gene in you body, and believe in man made up stories.

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Alan Shope: Nice post. I agree that the Republicans have gone a little overboard. I’m hoping they return to sanity……..

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And also rework the tax law so every single bit of base salary, nonequity bonuses, compensation for executive perks and awards of restricted stock shares and options are taxed at the same rates as earned income. No more shielding the bulk of one’s compensation from the tax rates most Americans have to pay.

BUT YOU’RE PENALIZING THE RICH!!!!

And Reaganomics has worked so wonderfully for 80% of Americans for the past thirty years that to mess with that right now would be the worst thing we could do!!!

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Simple Man, you got that right.

Problem is in this day and age, many people seem to feel they are entitiled to a bunch of crap, but they don’t want to take the steps necessary to secure said crap. Then, one day they look around and say hey, I halfway learned english and math and got a GED and 2 children by age 19…Why don’t I have all these things? It’s not fair!!

The Obama mentality is that if you vote a certain way, you can divert personal responsiblity to society which then in turn breeds unmotivated populace, but you secure the vote.

Great way to move FORWARD.

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Are you saying a person of faith (or no faith) cannot base their vote on their beliefs?

No.

That’s not even possible. If they don’t affect your choices then you don’t really believe them to begin with.

My point isn’t about the individuals being polled, it is about a religious institution getting involved in electoral politics.

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“The Public Religion Research Institute, which says it was “founded to provide high-quality public opinion survey research focused on religion, values, and American public policy,” just released a new nationwide polling study that puts particular focus on the attitudes of the white working class.”

This is apparently the same organization that found that “…large majorities of African-Americans identify both as “pro-life” (71%) and “pro-choice” (75%)”, so maybe their methodology is somewhat flawed:

=http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/26/survey-among-black-hispanic-americans-complexity-reigns-on-abortion-issue/

Especially when they find also that “…over three-quarters (77%) of black Americans and around six in 10 (62%) Hispanic Americans agree that one of the big problems in this country is that we don’t give everyone an equal chance in life.” Huh? Hence the government is to now assume the mantle of messiah so that the “blind see, the lame walk, the deaf can hear” and so on? Where is THAT in the Constitution? Last I knew, the thinking of the Founding Fathers was that all men were created equal, not made that way by governmental intervention.

“The poll also explored what you might call the Paul Ryan Dilemma, after the vice presidential nominee who professes both a strong Catholic faith and, until recently at least, a strong affinity for the teachings of Ayn Rand…”

Did it also explore what “you might call” the Barack Obama Dilemma, after the current president who professes a strong Christian faith while paying homage in his autobiography to his principal mentor Frank Marshall, who besides being a lifelong communist and a pornographer:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Communist-Paul-Kengor/dp/1451698097

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Simple man, I generally concur.

But this?

Now, if you think making life tough on rich people is the answer I’ve got news for you. Won’t happen.

MAKING LIFE TOUGH ON RICH PEOPLE??????????????

How exactly is that?

By asking them to pay a higher effective tax rate than people making one five thousandth of what they do?

Oh the horror!

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“Do not play with the feelings of the Catalans” is the totally unveiled threat after Catalonia’s beggars-can-be-choosers demand for an unconditional bailout fell on deaf ears. The traditionally separatist-minded province has decided, according to ANSAmed, has decided to pull a Greece – and escalate with a move to secession. A resolution, on the right of the Catalan people to cut off ties with the Spanish state, will be voted on Thursday by the regional parliament. ”
.
C”mon Deal.
If the Catalonians can do it………….Georgia can.

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Mr. Obama’s position, for instance, is probably more analogous to that of the Republican incumbent George W. Bush in 2004 than it is to the candidate from his own party that year, John Kerry.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

FWIW, I’ve been saying this since summer of last year. Unless and until the GOP gives folks an affirmative reason to vote FOR their candidate, rather than AGAINST President Obama, then the 2012 election is likely to shape up like the 2004 election — but with the parties reversed.

Thanks, Mr. Silver, for reinforcing that point.

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JHM (from downstairs):

“The church, however, does not recognize its members’ right to leave whenever and however they please, and so my father-in-law and his wife were excommunicated. I’ve seen the documentation.”

From what I have read, the LDS does appear to “excommunicate” those who leave the church. But I was questioning your assertion that those who do not tithe 10% are also excommunicated – mainly because I have read in a number of places that it not true. One may not “enjoy” such things as “temple privileges”, but they are not excommunicated. That is why I want to see incontrovertible proof. You “dismissed” Romney’s gifts to charity as being as necessary to avoid excommunication, so I wish to see the proof.

Again, let me firmly state I am not defender of the LDS. Indeed, what has amazed me is to find do many highly intelligent people being members (because, if you have read the Book of Mormon or considered the far less than righteous lives of founders Smith and Young, you would find it hard to believe). And the only thing I have seen so far that might account for it is the challenge people are given to pray for a “sign” from God that this is the true and right religion (which followers apparently think they receive). After that, reasoning is suspended to some extent.

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JamVet – I can promise you that if I’m ever rich it will be because I worked my tail off to get it. I can also promise you that I will do all I can to protect it.

Rich people, whatever you definition you want to use, see what everyone else sees. Millions going to protect the rare Atlantic Space Clam, and other wasteful things. Then they are told they owe more or should pay more.

Is it any wonder they move away? I don’t blame them. I don’t mean “tough” as in working with a shovel. I mean more blaming and taxes.

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Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2012
5:17 pm

Wow wasn’t that serious guess the humor portion was lost on you and maybe everyone else.

My point was that it’s funny to me how both sides spin budget issues. Both bi7ch and moan about the effect of this or that being left off the budget or the lack of a budget. Then the same side complaint goes and usEs budget tricks to make themselves look good.

Sorry wasn’t trying to be serious

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“It’s true that capitalism and Christianity are incompatible”

Not it isn’t true. Capitalism is an economic tool. It is neutral. It’s how it’s used that makes it good or bad.

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“It’s true that capitalism and Christianity are incompatible.”

Not intended to be a factual statement. You probably mean the “love of money” and Christianity are incompatible. But one can be a “capitalist” without loving money. I might agree it is the exception rather than the rule, but that is another matter.

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“Wow wasn’t that serious guess the humor portion was lost on you and maybe everyone else”

I don’t know how long you’ve been here…but just in case you’re new you might as well know that I have a VERY literal mind.

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Problem is in this day and age, many people seem to feel they are entitiled to a bunch of crap, but they don’t want to take the steps necessary to secure said crap. Then, one day they look around and say hey, I halfway learned english and math and got a GED and 2 children by age 19…Why don’t I have all these things? It’s not fair!!

Really ????? Who are you speaking about there Betty ?

No prejudice in your heart there Betty ?

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Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2012
5:25 pm

Nah I’ve seen your work.
I felt a need to place a qualifier after I re read my post and who it was addressed to

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Stevie

“Members only” to a degree is just a front man imo. He isn’t going to do much of anything without the “blessings” of the mullahs & clerics.

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Only leftists think “fairness” can be derived by the bureaucrat’s fiat. The rational among us trust “free people voting in the market with their dollars.”

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I am beginning to believe that leftists derive all of their principles from polls, as if there are no universal truths

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“Then, one day they look around and say hey, I halfway learned english and math and got a GED and 2 children by age 19…Why don’t I have all these things? It’s not fair!!”

I once visited Fort Ticonderoga in NY. The guide related a piece of history that, if I had previously read about in grade school, I had forgotten: how Henry Knox, with a small group of men, lugged 60 tons of cannons and other artillery captured from the fort 300 miles through snowy forests, hills and dales to Boston in less than two months time.

It was an astonishing feat – jaw-dropping, actually. But these were physically strong and very determined men. Some how I don’t envision those growing up playing Nintendo as being capable of duplicating the feat. You can guess the moral of this post…

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You can guess the moral of this post…

Yes playing Nintendo.. only gives you strong fingers ? Really now what are you saying ?

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Bro

Or Newt winning the primary here in GA.

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“If anyone suggests the two are mutually exclusive, consider the mega churchs and the cash these folks bring in…the additions they are making to these churches are mindnumbing….”

People have always been willing to “sell” religion and people have always been willing to “buy” it as well (can you say “Indulgences”?). That is NOT Christianity – it is psuedo-Christianity.

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“It’s true that capitalism and Christianity are incompatible.”

I don’t know about Christianity in general but capitalism and Mormonism are most certainly compatible.

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Brandt Hardin

September 24th, 2012
3:50 pm
Romney’s riches in this election and the power of his sacred undergarments
___________________________________________________________
Does he have a blog about the Jews magic beanie and curlyque side burns? How about the Sikh’s enchanted doo rag? Maybe the muslims special flying prayer rug?

Please tell me that he doesn’t confine his bigotry to just one religion.

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ragnar danneskjold

September 24th, 2012
5:34 pm

Only leftists think “fairness” can be derived by the bureaucrat’s fiat. The rational among us trust “free people voting in the market with their dollars.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

He thinks this is wisdom…………..

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THEYBOTHSUCK

I agree to a point but without him, I think those in favor of democracy would feel more empowered to rise up…

It would cause quite a stir…probably less offensive that negative comments about that cat Muhammed…

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Doggone/GA

Obviously institutions do get involved in politics, otherwise we wouldn’t have a thread about the
Public Religion Research Institute polling in an electoral political race.

From the Public Religion Research Institute website: Public Religion Research Institute was founded to provide high quality public opinion survey research focused on religion, values, and American public policy. Since our founding in 2009, PRRI research has become a standard source of trusted information among journalists, opinion leaders, scholars, clergy, and the general public.

It is a brand new institution with a mission statement to disseminate polling data on religion. I am disturbed by this, because I believe spirituality should not be institutionalized in relation to electoral politics.

People will and do go to the voting booths with their spirituality in the forefront of their thoughts and I have absolutely no problem with that, but to me spirituality is an individual thing, and “religion” is a political subjugation of that spirituality into a group thing

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Marty Huggins’ ……. I don’t claim to know about the big bang, or the man made Gods folks die for daily……

My thoughts are religious institutions should not get tax free benefits for made up stuff….. cause there are how many Gods ? And which one is correct ?

Plus using religion in politics as both parties do is ridicules.

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“That said, I think you need to focus a little more on what I’m trying to get across. I don’t lionize Romney’s charitable donations primarily because a significant portion of them were *obligatory.*”

Some amount of giving to support a church is “obligatory” (as you call it) in just about any “version” of “Christianity” you will encounter – because it is a Biblical mandate. But giving 10% is an Old and not New Testament command and, strictly speaking, applies no more to Christians than does the mandate to sacrifice animals for the atonement of sin. In addition, giving not to a church per se but to needy individuals is a form of giving to God (”He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD…” – Proverbs 19:17). So I would agree with you to the extent that if all one’s charitable gifts are to a church per se, then there is something wrong with that picture.

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Just put your trust in Obama while he’s smiling and handing you that big old crap sandwich.

You mean the Trillions we were handed by the Republican’s with deficits don’t matter ? The Iraq war and Mission Accomplished…… talk about CRAP !

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You liberals have your opinions and we conservatives have ours. Guess it will take a civil war to settle our differences.

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BRO,

Back on voter suppression for a sec…when folks refer to a lack of voter fraud…if no id is required in the past so for example, we have no idea if one is of voting age, would we know that?

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Kam

IMO it is just a way to hide behind a veil but still push the same type agenda as did organizations like the Moral Majority.

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THEYBOTH,

I’m not so sure..I know it is a religious state (ironically much like Israel), but they have a very educated population who have been intimidated whenever speaking out…could be tipping point…heck, lets kill him and see..

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Don Abernethy

September 24th, 2012
5:54 pm

You liberals have your opinions and we conservatives have ours. Guess it will take a civil war to settle our differences.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

Not from the Liberal perspective, but they are willing to talk and negotiate. As to you Rush Limbaugh asshats? That’s a different story……….

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if no id is required in the past so for example, we have no idea if one is of voting age, would we know that?

As long as the registration process checks out, then that should be addressed long before the first ballot is cast. I recall having to show ID when I registered, and I’ve always volunteered a photo ID whenever I voted, whether it was required by law or not. That’s just me though. I don’t know if it was the same for everyone else.

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M. Huggins — “I left the LDS “church” and became Episcopalian with my wife. I can say the experience you are describing is not accurate in all cases.”

I’m genuinely pleased to hear that.

“Maybe was with your wife and her family but not my experience. I had no problems of any kind what so ever.”

Did you find it necessary to attend multiple meetings with your stake president and with other members of church leadership before they finally consented to permit you to leave? Please elaborate on your experience; I would genuinely like to know.

“You are speaking as if your wife story is universal and that is simply untrue. It’s fine to discuss your wife story, but to attribute that to ALL involved is misleading and wrong.”

If you have another perspective to offer, then by all means do so. If, however, you’re simply being made uncomfortable by what I’m relating, too bad.

“If their story is your only source it would benefit you to research things a little better”

If you have sources to recommend, I’m all ears. If however, your criticism is merely that your story differs from my wife’s story (and her family’s story), then perhaps you need to research things a little better as well.

“and spend less time pontificating.”

Physician, heal thyself.

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BRO,

Regarding NFL refs..you bring up an interesting topic..seems to me that the game is simply too fast for them at present..I’m wondering if this goes on much longer, if they will adjust at some point….making the adjustment from div 2 or whatever, will take time but probably not as long as one thinks…the bigger issue is simply controlling games and calling out coaches when they attempt to intimidate….

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“Atoms don’t exist.”

Just as I suspected. How about water molecules?

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Brosephus™

September 24th, 2012
4:11 pm
Being master of the obvious, i submit to you that blacks aren’t acually black anymore than whites are actually white..

You should get out a bit more. There are some Blacks who are considered “Blue-Black” or dark Black. There are some whites who are so pale that they resemble the color of milk. Trust me, I’ve seen them both and all shades in between.
_________________________________
Stevie Ray, ever heard of the term “Blurple”

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Afternoon, Joe Hussein Mama

I’ve read your exchanges with Towncrier. FIrst off, I’ll say no matter what ‘official’ policy may be, any time one’s dealing with a worldwide church, without a professional local clergy, in fact, a part-time lay clergy, almost anything can happen. I’d also observe that just because something unfortunate happened decades ago does not mean that practice was proper nor does it mean it’s something one can reasonably expect today.

I also recognize the personal nature of this as it occurred within your family.

Having said that, it did pique my interest and from what I read from a variety of LDS, nonLDS and anti-LDS sites, as well as asking a couple of friends, I’ll offer the following:

– none of the people I spoke with accepted what happened to your father-in-law was proper. In fact, one offered the local officials should have been counseled by higher authorities.

- tithing’s considered a personal matter. How to calculate the amount is left strictly to the individual. Some do gross, some do net, some do whatever. I was told by a person in a current position of authority (and I trust you don’t take this as heresay, just relating results of my information gathering back to when you first brought this up) that they are specifically told to NOT question people who apply for temple recommends how they did the calculation. The only question is “are you a full tithe payer.” End of discussion. That interview, requested by the individual, is the only time that question is asked. Regardless of what happened years ago, that’s current policy.

- people aren’t audited. The closest one might construe it is if a person wants to donate property (stocks, land, etc) in lieu of cash. Then there are valuations that have to be done – more by the donor for tax purposes. I do not know what controls kick in if there are conditions on the donation, such as when stocks can be sold (as I read on an LDS website is standard practice for all donations of stock).

– people who do not want to be members can have their names removed. The process falls under the umbrella of ‘excommunication’ and is not pejorative. It’s just the system they’ve set up to handle all such membership removal matters. I can understand why local leaders would want to make contact. Can you imagine if one person was upset with a nonpracticing LDS and forged a letter saying “get my name off your rolls”? I don’t see a problem with verification.

But again, what happened to your wife’s family seems more due to a local guy who was full of himself rather than following policy. And even if the case is made there was such a policy, it no longer exists. Same kinds of things happen with all large organizations. Look at the VA – follows a policy denying benefits for a certain class, later reverses and does away with the policy. Doesn’t mean 30 years later the VA should be judged by the previous policy.

Just my two cents’ worth.

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BMAN,

Seems to me that one side sez…every voter should be able to evidence proof they are of age and citizenship to vote..the other sez nonsense, we don’t need no stinking ID’s…

Seems if the latter became true in all states, this is simply fodder for underage, multiple votes, and general fraud to expand..

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“Blurple”

I think I just scared my neighbor’s dogs from laughing so hard!!!

I haven’t heard that one in a while…

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Towncrier — “But giving 10% is an Old and not New Testament command and, strictly speaking, applies no more to Christians than does the mandate to sacrifice animals for the atonement of sin.”

FWIW, it’s made clear during the LDS Endowment process/ceremony that tithing is an *obligation* on the order of several other key covenants.

“So I would agree with you to the extent that if all one’s charitable gifts are to a church per se, then there is something wrong with that picture.”

FWIW, I don’t begrudge people the right to make whatever donations they please to their churches. I simply have an issue with calling *obligatory* tithes “charity,” as several of our posters were earlier today.

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BOTHSUCK,

Agreed but we could certainly frame Iranian activists….c’mon man, this is America baby..

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TOWNCRIER,

Just like with christians el al, we humanists have no shortage of zagnuts on the fringes…perhaps even materially less than..maybe proportional though..most of us don’t judge others….whatever works…bear in mind many who take that tone have been hurt in the name of religion somewhere on their path….no excuse but true..

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Kam

IMO it is just a way to hide behind a veil but still push the same type agenda as did organizations like the Moral Majority.

BOTH

I don’t know that they have an agenda, but I believe they can be used by groups that do have an agenda.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok, if that’s what you believe…what did the INSTITUTE do that did not include the involvment of ANY people?

Doggone/GA

I guess that is my point that I didn’t articulate. An institute is an organization of people that must come to some kind of consensus when decision making time comes around, and “politics” is that decision making process. “Religion” is that kind of institution, and I believe that spirituality suffers from that political process.

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Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2012
3:20 pm

“What is the definition for this term? Education level, income level, job type or some combination thereof?”

If you get a salary check – you’re white collar. If you get a paycheck – you’re blue collar (working class)

Dumbest statement of the day…Im on salary, and I’m without a doubt middle(working class)

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“FWIW, it’s made clear during the LDS Endowment process/ceremony that tithing is an *obligation* on the order of several other key covenants.”

Well, I think some conservative churches like the Baptist church strongly encourage a tithe of 10% to the church. But, again, that is an extra-Biblical expectation or teaching: Here is what, for instance, the Apostle Paul says about giving:

“Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver…” (Galatians 6:7)

“So I would agree with you to the extent that if all one’s charitable gifts are to a church per se, then there is something wrong with that picture.”

“FWIW, I don’t begrudge people the right to make whatever donations they please to their churches. I simply have an issue with calling *obligatory* tithes “charity,” as several of our posters were earlier today.”

I understand. But I am not certain Romney views them as such. I cannot read his mind on this subject.

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Seems to me that one side sez…every voter should be able to evidence proof they are of age and citizenship to vote..the other sez nonsense, we don’t need no stinking ID’s…

Well, I got to admit I filled out the ballot for my Mom one time. It was a absentee ballot and nobody needed any ID. You still don’t need a ID to vote absentee in GA. Anyhow, she died in October and it just didn’t seem fair she wouldn’t get to vote even tho she’d lived in the state pretty near 10 months of that year. It just don’t seem OK to me to tell a person you can’t vote just because you’re dead, even if you was alive for most of the year. I done my best to figure out how she would of voted and decided she would of voted straight Republican. But I never done it again. I figured she’d be pretty ripe in two more years and besides somebody in the voting office might of read the death notices.

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Mark T

September 24th, 2012
6:16 pm

Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2012
3:20 pm

“What is the definition for this term? Education level, income level, job type or some combination thereof?”

If you get a salary check – you’re white collar. If you get a paycheck – you’re blue collar (working class)

Dumbest statement of the day…Im on salary, and I’m without a doubt middle(working class)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Actually your statemnet is dumber. She can explain it to you, but she can’t understand it FOR you. Middle class is no more “working class” than an apple is an orange. I know it’s really hard for you to understand and in fact you WON’T understand it because Neal or Rush won’t clarify it for you so I won’t try to elaborate.

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Reported today, by who knows, that over 10M hispanics would “lose their vote”, whatever that means, by being required to have voter ID. So, perhaps even able bodied, hard working latinos have to have a voter ID to check their immigration status and see whether or not they have voting privileges. It’s simple. Go get a voter ID so the pollster can determine whether or not you have the right to vote. Anything else is a scam.

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Economic fairness? I thought we were for “shared prosperity.” Oh yeah, same thing.

As a public service, I will provide some background. To wit:

“Shared prosperity” is a focus-group tested phrase specifically coined to obfuscate O’bozo’s Marxist agenda. I will demonstrate to even the dullest knives in the lib ilk kitchen drawer what it really means:

Shared prosperity = social justice= equality of outcomes = economic justice = income redistribution = to each according to their needs = Marxism = O’bozo’s vision for America.

Scary I know, but true.

O’bozo’s goal: render the greatest country in the history of the world to something less than France. Or Kenya or something.

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I want to express my appreciation to Marty Huggins, to Paul and to Towncrier for a most enjoyable discussion. I’d like very much to continue it at another time, but family obligations call.

Be well, gents, and do drive safely.

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Bumper Sticker:

“Obama ‘08 – Redistribute the Wealth
Obama ‘12 – Redistribute the Poverty”

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Joe Hussein Mama

“Hmm. Are you suggesting that an LDS member, living rather ostentatiously (large new house, luxury car and truck, kids in elite private school) who only donated, say, $5K per year, wouldn’t be looked upon with some degree of suspicion?”

I suppose I’m thinking, given the range of people, anything’s possible. But one of my friends here – he’s a software writer in a very successful family business – used to serve as the local lay leader. Earlier, after one of your other postings, I’d asked him about a person (I think I couched it in terms of a new member, family money apportioned out from nonLDS, etc) living beyond what their statement would seem to indicate. I put up his hands in that palm-forward motion and said “hey, that’s not for me to decide. I’m just looking for a ‘yes’ or a ‘no.’ Each person has to decide for themselves, especially in unusual situations.” I must admit that one exchange that’s pretty current formed a big part of my impression of what now occurs. At least, I hope it’s a common attitude. Puts more responsibility on the individual to live with the consequences of their statements and doesn’t shift responsibility to someone else to ‘judge’ them.

Your other paragraph – of course I don’t take it as an attack. My thoughts were just what I could extrapolate from one article that was about whether or not the LDS Church owned stock in certain companies (something I’d picked up on an anti site). Then I went to an LDS site and they pretty much said ‘look, people donate all kinds of stocks. We get them, we sell them.”

Your point about your wife’s experience – okay, there are still some lulus around, eh? I don’t want to get too personal on this public forum, but I’d looked thru a couple of sites googled from ‘how to remove your name from LDS membership records.” Takes some…. judicious reading. There’s a bit of ire on some of them that’s not pleasant. But there are other sites that are more of a ‘okay, here’s what you do with the Catholic church, the LDS, the Methodist, etc”. I’d encourage her to go that route. Main thing I picked up was to write the local officials, cc the Membership Department in Salt Lake City, tell them you don’t want to meet with anyone, it’s something you’ve thought about for years, it’s just not a good fit for your and to notify you when the action is completed. Marry Huggins’ seemed to have a pretty good experience.

Really, JHM, my real concern for you and especially your wife is that negativity from unfortunate experiences can have a corrosive effect over the years. Just wanted to offer whatever encouragement I could that could lead to moving on and having contentment.

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REDNECK,

Damn funny post..dead people can and will continue to vote…democratic likely …

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“I make no argument on that point, but I would like to direct you here…”

The really odd thing to me about the LDS is that I believe they have a doctrine right I would not have expected them to have right – the one about repentance and adult immersion for the forgiveness of sins (as opposed to, say, “praying Jesus into your heart”, being sprinkled with water as an infant or being born in a “Christian” nation). I believe that is because someone in the LDS early on encountered someone from the Restoration Movement in America (or maybe one from the latter “converted” to the former).

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Those LDS’ers

I don’t think their claim that the garden of eden is in Missouri is any less difficult to swallow than walking on water…regardless…whatever works eh?

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Mark T

September 24th, 2012
6:29 pm

It was pretty clear to me…she directly stated “If you get a salary check, your white collar”…and that simply is not true…period
++++++++++++++++++++++++

It simply IS true…….. period. Don’t blame me for your lack of education and ability to define terms.

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Mark T

September 24th, 2012
6:37 pm

Middle class is not the same thing as working class

Really?…I make $50,000 a yr..and I load airplanes for a living…so I’m not middle and working class?
+++++++++++++++++++

By definition, no. If you were stupid enough to do an hourly job on a paycheck that’s not our fault.

Ever see teh movie Racing Stripes? Regardless of how fast that zebra could run or how many horses it beat, it was still a zebra, not a horse.

You argue about every damn thing don’t you? You should educate yourself and be willing to learn from others more and argue less.

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It was pretty clear to me…she directly stated “If you get a salary check, your white collar”…and that simply is not true…period

I prefer it’s original origins as it relates to the nature of the work….I know plenty blue collar guys making more than most white collar guys

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Mark

If you are not Delta then I guess Southwest (Air Tran) or one of the other majors has the same type job categories?

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Paul

September 24th, 2012
6:46 pm

Stevie Ray

Did you see the the NBC special with Brian Williams back in August? Led off with a guy who was a professor of religion at a big-name university. He said pretty much the same thing “before these good Christians ridicule another faith’s beliefs in miraculous events, they may want to consider some of the things they believe happened, like….”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bob Jones never met a non Baptist he didn’t hate or think was a heathen or “cult.”

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Fred=clueless

They BOTH suck…yes anybody can get overtime out there for the most part

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Capitalism values profit and things above people (witness job layoffs), while Christianity (or more accurately the teaching of Jesus) values people above profit and things.

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“Capitalism values profit and things above people ”

Actually, that is the attitude of the people involved in a form of capitalism. There’s no such thing as “pure” capitalism and how it evolved is a reflection of the attitudes of the people involved…not of the system itselt.

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Mark T

September 24th, 2012
6:49 pm

Fred=clueless

They BOTH suck…yes anybody can get overtime out there for the most part
+++++++++++++++++

Gotta love it. Because the guy is ignorant, I’M clueless. Oh well you just can’t cure stupid. And left me define stupid for you.

Ignorant is not knowing something and every human is ignorant because we can’t know everything.

STUPID is being ignorant and loving every minute of it and pretending to be right. It’s wallowing in your ignorance rather than correcting the situation.

The hill you have decided to “defend” is indefensible but you are too stupid to admit that. Rather than say to Doggone, damn, I didn’t know that, thanks for telling me, you have chosen the stupid path. You attacked her and then me for your ignorance and stupidity.

How classy. You vote Republican don’t you?

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Eric 6:50

Nicely said.

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Aquagirl

September 24th, 2012
5:51 pm
Has anyone answered where the original atoms came from and how they were formed?

Atoms don’t exist. That “theory” was made up to support government grants for a $25 billion boondoggle in Oak Ridge, TN.
______________________________________________________________
I thought Atom was the little robot the could from “Real Steel”

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“Reported today, by who knows, that over 10M hispanics would “lose their vote”, whatever that means, by being required to have voter ID. ”

That would (it appears) be here:

=http://www.advancementproject.org/news/entry/voter-suppression-laws-could-disenfranchise-10-million-latinos

[Keeping a straight face] I could detect no partisanship or bias or perceptible agenda in this “report” at all. Liberals may feel free to cite it as “evidence” of yet another “evil” conspiracy among conservatives to oppress the poor and needy and preserve power. Voter ID laws have nothing to do with principle and potential voter fraud:

=http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/297461/reality-voter-fraud-john-fund
=http://www.statesman.com/opinion/spakovsky-voter-id-is-a-sensible-precaution-
1667416.html?printArticle=y
=http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrezza/2012/08/08/sen-al-franken-voter-fraud-revelations-call-for-ways-to-reduce-it/

And, from our very own Kyle Wingfield:

=http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/08/07/2012-tuesday-voter-fraud-not-suppression-is-real/

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the original atoms are from san diego….. next

http://www.sandiegopunk.com/botm/botmmarch05.php

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““Obama for President” thread #218″

Who needs bumper stickers with so much of the traditional media in the tank for Obama?

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Keep the excuses coming bumper sticker cons!

Just like last time, they’ll comfort you come November 7.

Why admit you have the weakest candidate in eighty years when you can blame somebody, anybody else!

This is gonna be one helluva hysterical 45 days…

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I’ll bet Big Nick is a Democrat

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EC

We have one on here who comes close to that language and he isn’t a Democrat…….

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Joe Hussein Mama
September 24th, 2012
6:25 pm

As far as the letter….Put her full name maiden name may be needed as well. Her date of birth, current address and the story of how she came to that conclusion at the time( when she was 13)

She needs to send this to the local Bishop.

As far as her being in trouble with the church, it does not have to be her, it could be her family. The church holds the family in the same regard as the individual, almost.
I saw later where you said her father had an issue with a church leader or church elder. If that is the case I regretfully I form you they most likely have included your wife into any dispute that was going on at the time.

If she sends this type of letter and still the church is resistant to her membership removal she needs to contact the national office. And depending on your residence the church may be breaking civil if not criminal law. Exxon that to the national office if nothing is resolved to not hesitate to alert your attorney.

The folks coming by the house thou, that’s kinda who they are doesn’t matter if you were a member or not that is a part of their mission work. They simply know of your wife and thus transition the conversation to her membership.
Just be polite and tell them no thank you we or she has made up her mind please leave.

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“Why admit you have the weakest candidate in eighty years when you can blame somebody, anybody else!”

Hmmm…in recent times, I was under the impression it was Hubert Humphrey, Mike Dukakis or Bob Dole. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Some folks is even blacker than me…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaLS9qiLxIU&playnext=1&list=PL111F9DB17B31F91D&feature=results_video

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Ask that Republican bastion of Georgia intelligence, Newt about the weakest candidate in eighty years, he’ll set you straight.

It is where I got the line from…

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They BOTH suck, 7:15 pm

I enjoyed hearing Simon and Garfunkel. Nice song. Thanks.

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Dear Fred @ 5:48, good evening, sad truth, leftists do not seem to know that.

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Well, after thinking about Jay’s “economic fairness” thing, I’ve decided I need some.

Seems like almost every lib ilk on this blog has bragged about six figure salaries and ownership of businesses to refute well established economic principles, it’s time for you here to ante up.

In an effort to help you be fair, please remit some redistribution to me.

PayPal is cool.

Thanks in advance.

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I kinda miss Nutty Newt and 999 Herman.

I was hoping that one of them would win the nomination and then pick the other as his running mate.

The 2012 Georgia Groper ticket!

Obviously it’s not as if Georgia conservatives have any shame, so what is another good laugh at their expense?!

(Lock up the women and children!)

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good read rag

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You liberal lunatics are working overtime in your propaganda. I witnessed the same repulsive push just ahead of GW’s victory in both elections he won.

Have you no shame?

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EC

You could be 100% correct. Bernie could be a culprit, but let’s be honest here, there is one right leaning blogger who let’s say pushes the racial issues to say the least

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Both…help me out….it could be i skip over the poster on habit

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EC

Either way, it was a stupid post.

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“about to release the beast”

That’s what he said.

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EC

Don’t want to throw the guy under the bus, but he is a regular. He doesn’t type in all caps, but he has posted some incendiary stuff, things along the lines of “hasn’t been long since ‘they’ came out of the trees” and many others.

Again, it was a stupid post regardless of who posted it.

I tend to think some of the folks on these blogs probably do not even vote. They just choose a side and go after the other side for the shock value

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Both….got it…..and got it…I think….our own personal perspectives provide different contexts, I try and give benefit of the doubt….it’s a blog, nothin’ serious

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ME

your welcome

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Regardless of the opinions of the religious folk, I agree with H.L. Mencken who said, “In this world of sin and sorrow there is much to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I’m not a Republican.”

Selah!

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TBS: I’d have to go with Bernie playing “agent provocateur.” Nobody else could get a cap lock key that stuck.

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Mr B

Could be. I noticed he has been posting his same bigoted Mormon tripe at Wingfield’s but under another name.

That dude is whacked out.

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TBS and Erwin: I have to admit that I think Bernie is one of those “ilk” that Sinkwich is always griping about.

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How many actual jobs were created with the vast sums that flowed into Mitt Romney’s personal coffers as income? I’d love to know.

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I have to admit that I think Bernie is one of those “ilk” that Sinkwich is always griping about.

I think Sinkwich hears voices in his head, but that’s just me…

I can’t figure why so many people have so much piss and vinegar in their veins nowadays.

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Instead of slapping each other (figuratively) how about a nice discussion question. No agenda …….. and no right or wrong answer:

In my prior career I was at the U.N. General Assembly this time of the year. I always looked forward to it as there’s always something to do in New York and September weather there is beautiful. Usually, I was assigned as the Detail Leader or Assistant Detail Leader for a foreign head of state.

Here’s today’s article:

(Reuters) – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Monday disregarded a U.N. warning to avoid incendiary rhetoric and declared ahead of the annual General Assembly session that Israel has no roots in the Middle East and would be “eliminated.”

Questions:

1) If the U.N. had been founded in 1935 should Hitler have been allowed to speak at the 1939 General Assembly?

2) Should Ahmadinejad be allowed to speak at this General Assembly?

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Nobody else could get a cap lock key that stuck.

Meh.

You shoulda been around when Engrish major George Somethingorother was here.

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I can’t figure why so many people have so much piss and vinegar in their veins nowadays.

Well, maybe some of us don’t have a wife we can jump on anytime we feel like it. Some of us are out-weighed at home by about 220 lbs. Maybe some of us need to let it all hang out here.

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Why would any white person ….. ?

Why, oh why?

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Mr_B:

Thank you.

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Just an idgit passing through in the night.

Better an idgit than an idjit. Those j’s are some real muthas…

—————

Them ain’t voices, them’s echoes.

Well, now that you mention that. Sounds tend to echo in empty rooms. Might need to add some spongy matter in between those ears to alleviate that problem.

—————

1) If the U.N. had been founded in 1935 should Hitler have been allowed to speak at the 1939 General Assembly?

Yes. If Germany were a member nation, why would he not have been allowed to speak? Just because you don’t like the message doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have the right to give it. You can’t support and uphold free speech and then turn around and squash it just because you don’t agree with the message or messenger.

2) Should Ahmadinejad be allowed to speak at this General Assembly?

http://www.iran-un.org/

Yes. Iran has been a member of the United Nations since October 24, 1945.

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Brosephus:

So you would draw no line as to who should be allowed to speak even if the rhetoric involved the destruction of another member nation ?

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TaxPayer

I had to go and google that because I couldn’t believe that he said that. I did happen to find the LA Times article where he’s quoted as saying that. I won’t even pick on him for that because that would be worse than picking on the defenseless.

Just wow….

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So you would draw no line as to who should be allowed to speak even if the rhetoric involved the destruction of another member nation ?

If there’s nothing in the bylaws that outright forbids it, why draw lines? Even better, I’d televise their speeches in their entirety for all the world to hear. I’d follow their speeches with commentary showing how assinine their thinking and behavior is, but I wouldn’t stop them from talking.

I’ve never seen words physically harm anybody. To give you an idea of how I feel about that, I wouldn’t stop a member from the Klan from giving a speech about how he felt about Blacks. Words do nothing unless you allow them to affect you.

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Towncrier

September 24th, 2012
5:24 pm

I mean that the most effective and successful capitalists are the ones putting a lot of time and effort into pursuing their own interests, and Christianity says we should subordinate our interests to something else.

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Brosephus/BOTH:

I would tend to agree with one difference.

I would hope that any speech (including Ahmadinejad’s) calling for the entire destruction of another member nation or ethnic people group would be to an empty hall as everyone walked out.

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Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…

September 24th, 2012
5:29 pm

If the megachurches are truly capitalistic, then they aren’t truly Christian. Actually they probably aren’t very good representatives of either.

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There is a reason we are leaving the younger generation no chance to make a decent living wilbur.

Think real hard wilbur and tell me the reason without blaming our President.

I am listening.

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Scout

I could sit right next to you while you’re giving a speech and not hear a single word if I’m not interested. Just because somebody’s sitting in the audience, that doesn’t mean they are paying attention. I understand your point though. For me, that walking out stuff is nothing but theatrics. It’s no different than turning your back to a speaker.

—————

frog

The young and gullible would be exceptions to the rule. The reason that words hurt is because we give them the power and emotion to hurt. Once you realize that you can control whether or not they hurt, then you realize that people don’t have the power over you that they think they have.

It’s not an easy task, and it takes the patience of a saint to get to that point. It can be done though.

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Just an idgit passing through in the night.

Hysterical, Jay.

Your forum seems to attract them! (No offense to us regular idgits here. LOL!)

Trump to Liberty U Students: ‘The World is Laughing at my Hair’ ~Newsmax.com

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“COMPLAINTS MOUNT AGAINST MICHELLE O’S NEW LUNCH MENU”

Hummm…………….maybe we should lower the voting age ?

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What data also tells me is the South is only region where the working class whites continue to vote against their own economic interests. Wonder why? Anyway, since we have electoral college, this portends well for Obama victory. And South will not rise again but will continue to hug the bottom in all meaningful measures of civilized society. Bad for those us who live here; otherwise, I might say let them secede.

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getalife,

Same old crap: yes, you’ve cornered the market on it.

No one does same old crap as often as you.

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0311,

It’s a conservative conspiracy. Elementary school kids are just gunning for Michelle because it’s an election year. And the kids behind it all are white supremacists christians all on their own, sanctioned by non-union coptic principals.

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Headline: “Veterans retreating from Barack Obama”

“President Barack Obama is trying hard to win veterans, but it looks like they’d prefer a new commander in chief.

The Obama campaign had been hoping that veterans and their families — especially among the post-Sept. 11 generation that served in Iraq and Afghanistan — would be part of their path to victory: They’re a high turn-out demographic and concentrated in battleground states, with nearly 1 million each in North Carolina, Ohio and Virginia, and 1.6 million in Florida.

But recent polls make clear that the president’s campaign is losing the battle. Even as Obama leads in Colorado, Florida, Ohio and Virginia, Mitt Romney is up by double digits among veterans in those states. Nationwide, he’s got a commanding 20-percentage-point lead over Obama and has even overtaken the president with younger veterans.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81616.html#ixzz27RNnpO5t

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Obambarrassment :

O.K.

Thanks.

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…Romney was doing more preparation for the debates “than any candidate in modern history.”

“They’ve made clear that his performing well is a make-or-break piece for their campaign…

Shades of Tricky Dick’s sweaty upper lip? LOL!

The Republican angle is that he has more experience debating recently, which is certainly true.

But my gawd, look at the idiots he debated – Santorum, Perry, Bachmann, Newt and Herman!

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The gop debates were about la la land.

These debates are about the real world.

romney can’t remember all his positions.

It will be like his campaign.

A train wreck.

Bet 10 k on it.

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JamVet,

It’s OK. You don’t have to say that those people are idiots. We know the media narrative–Santorum, Reagan, Bush, Quayle, etc., Only Cheney and Nixon were evil. No, wait, Newt was dumb…or was he evil? Or was Cheney controlled by aliens…? Nixon, lying under oath…no wait…

It’s all so hard to keep this straight.. OK, so Newt was evil and Newt was controlled by…..

Waitaminute….so Cheney was diabolical… and Palin…

Oh, they’re all just stupid. Just say that.

We’ve heard it before Jam.

We just wish you’d be more creative and say, address the policies that these people propose as politicians, rather than slandering them with the ad hominem nonsense that they are a) stupid, b) racists, c) out-of-touch.

Want someone entirely stupid and out of touch? I give you Joe Biden, a man who matches up so poorly against anyone prominent in modern politics that all the liberal media can do is shrug, “oh that’s just Joe.”

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http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/09/24/howard_stern_interviews_obama_supporters_2012.html

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Speaking of dancing horses … Sarah Palin’s twitter feed just reminded me that Bristol in on Dancing With The D-List

Heh, heh, heh.

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“I give you Joe Biden, a man who matches up so poorly against anyone prominent in modern politics ”

Guess you missed the 08 debate with Palin

You betcha

Weak economy, worst president ever according to many on the right, and Embarrassment can’t figure out why Thurston Howell and Eddy Monster are probably going to lose………

Oh well………………..

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Brown Noser:

Paul “Lyin’” Ryan

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Romney is utilizing a narrow definition of the term “tax return” to avoid releasing some of his tax documents to the public. In 2010, for instance, Romney declined to release a form associated with his Swiss bank account.

18,000 owners of Swiss bank accounts came forward under the DoJ’s amnesty program in order to avoid the chance of jail time. Release your full tax returns, Mitt. Let us see the details on those Swiss bank accounts. What are you hiding, Mitt.

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Then you must be a lib

How is that “edited video” working out for you, Mr Substance?

hahahahaha

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5kWLX5SDwk&feature=youtu.be

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“From Politico’s Book of Miracles: President Jesus somehow packs 18,000 people into 5,000 seat pavilion…”

Unreported was how he fed the multitude with some snacks from Michelle’s purse…

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“I have found that those who complain the most about having something shoved down their throats, are the same ones who will swallow anything.”

You know, Kamcheck, there is such a thing as Bartlett’s Book of Quotations. You don’t have to quote only things you find written on bathroom walls.

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If Ann Romney hadn’t had that baby panda strangled because “it looked at her funny” this wouldn’t be a story.

Heh, heh, heh.

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“Plugs” – now that’s funny

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Occupy Unmasked movie starring Andrew Breitbart opens this week. I won’t spoil the ending for you, but if you’ve seen Ole Yeller….

Heh, heh, heh.

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I guess you should save your breath, Jay:

http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/09/24/howard_stern_interviews_obama_supporters_2012.html

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Why do the Romneys pay so little in taxes?

By now, most of us have probably heard that Mitt and Ann Romney paid just under $2 million in taxes on income — virtually all from investments — of just under $14 million for 2011, an effective tax rate of 14.1%. This is a low tax rate, lower than the typical middle-class American worker pays, especially when one considers payroll taxes, the largest burden for most Americans. It should concern us that individuals of Romney’s wealth — analysis has put his personal fortune as high as $250 million, not counting some $100 million in trusts set up for his five children — pay so little as a percent in taxes.

Since so much of his money is hidden overseas, I say outsource Mitt and Ann there…

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Poll reveals deep doubts about economic fairness

Oblunda’s performance on 60 Minutes (sans teleprompter) reveals deep doubts about his overall competence AND confirms the obvious conclusion that he is a DOLT. If you plan to vote for this loser, then you are one too!

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Who cares? Maybe you, who cares? If there was anything to it that could have been used by the Romney campaign to throw it back in the Dems face, even a simple guy like yourself knows it would have already been shown

But keep HOPE ALIVE……

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Multiple melt-downs.

They won’t last until election night.

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But keep HOPE ALIVE…

I must stipulate that Obama has accomplished at least this one thing; he destroyed HOPE.

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Use stupid names for the Presidebnt,

RACIST

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“This is the grand sum of the Republican party and the idiots that make it up.”

Aren’t you a professed “independent”? You don’t come off that way very often…

“Use stupid names for the President, insult him and then insult anyone who votes for him.”

You mean like JamVet, getalife, Sinkwich, and a number of others?

“It’s also a tactic that pre-schoolers use when they get in a poutrage at another classmate.”

Wow…I didn’t realize how many “pre-schoolers” (on both ends of the ideological spectrum) post on Jay’s blog.

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TC

And I guess you have a post where I have said as much? No, you do not.

I have stated numerous that I do lean left, but have never voted a straight ticket except for 1988. The 1st time I was eligible to vote and voted a straight Republican ticket.

I do not think that Democrats govern any better than Republicans. They are all power hungry.

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TC

Are you not a professed Christian? You do not often come across that way very much or at least anything close to the ones I know

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Towncrier
September 24th, 2012
10:55 pm

It’s only Republican preschoolers!
Didn’t you read the post only republicans were mentioned in the rant.
Thus one can only assume the poster does not feel democrats do what he complains about.

Or possibly it was an accidental omission on his/her behalf to be fair.

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TC

Speaking of preschoolers, would it be safe to say you do not ever call names on this blog?

hahahahaha

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That’s fat fingers lol. You should try to read crap I text…

Time is too precious AND, I never had much use for the lazy …

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Aren’t you a professed “independent”? You don’t come off that way very often…

There are two reasons for that. One: you see EVERYTHING that isn’t lock step with your hard right wing fanatical views as “librul.” And Two: There is just so much more stupidity and a lack of truth coming from the right at this point in time. The left is being smart and only pointing out the lunacy of the right. What is the right’s focus right now? Why all those NON-issues that the funkynamed idiot posted all in one post. How depressing……
Use stupid names for the President, insult him and then insult anyone who votes for him.”

You mean like JamVet, getalife, Sinkwich, and a number of others?

Actually Stinkie is one of you far right wing fanatics so you probably shouldn’t have included him in your “excuse.” As to that excuse? Really? Because Johnny Joe has no brains or class that means you have to mimic him? And you don’t see how preschool THAT behavior is? Really?

Just damn.

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Thanks, but we don’t need your vote; assuming you will be sober enough to make it to your polling place..

Oh I’m sure I’ll be there sport as I am the poll manager. As to sobriety? I would have to be fall down drunk and hit the wrong button to vote for any republicans. Also given the crap you post I would HOPE you are drunk and not really that stupid……..

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Marty Huggins’

September 24th, 2012
10:58 pm

Towncrier
September 24th, 2012
10:55 pm

It’s only Republican preschoolers!
Didn’t you read the post only republicans were mentioned in the rant.
Thus one can only assume the poster does not feel democrats do what he complains about.

Or possibly it was an accidental omission on his/her behalf to be fair.
++++++++++++++++++++

And here is anotherone blaming his poor behavior on little Johnny Joe down the street.

Don’t you folks take personal responsibility for ANYTHING?

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Well, gee…. Liberals who are never responsible for anything saying a financial system that’s leaving them behind isn’t fair. Shocker!!!

Never mind the lack of a HS degree, GED, 8 jobs in the last 3 years, degree in human studies/history/sociology/basket weaving/pizza delivery/etc. It must be the systems’s fault!!! Geez….

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Kam

I might get run off from both blogs myself………….

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RB from Gwinnett

September 24th, 2012
11:05 pm

Well, gee…. Liberals who are never responsible for anything saying a financial system that’s leaving them behind isn’t fair. Shocker!!!

Never mind the lack of a HS degree, GED, 8 jobs in the last 3 years, degree in human studies/history/sociology/basket weaving/pizza delivery/etc. It must be the systems’s fault!!! Geez….
++++++++++++++++

Now wait a minute. How can you lack a HS degree and a GED yet STILL have a degree in human studies/history/sociology/basket weaving/pizza delivery/etc? You’ve been using those for profit degree mills haven’t you?

Don’t get down on yourself RB. You tell enough Republican lies and Mitt will invite you out on his Cayman Islands flagged yacht………….

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Hey dumd ass, I mean TC

I grew up in church, so do not come with your high and mighty typical TC bs with me……..

Go cure some gays or tell a Jewish person they are not Jewish

Or whatever else you do

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Fred ™
September 24th, 2012
11:04 pm

Specific examples now of my poor behavior as you call it!

I’ll be waiting!

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“Actually Stinkie is one of you far right wing fanatics so you probably shouldn’t have included him in your “excuse.” As to that excuse? Really? Because Johnny Joe has no brains or class that means you have to mimic him?”

Huh? You think I use them as an excuse? I don’t disrespect the office Obama holds by calling him names. And I use a whole lot of sarcasm and irony to criticize the some of the views or statements of liberals here. Sometimes I go overboard and say some truly demeaning things. But I will never justify or “excuse” that.

But as for your posts, the unintended irony above is remarkable.

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RB from Gwinnett
September 24th, 2012
11:05 pm

What is wrong with a degree in History?

I understand many college students think that a degree is all it takes and that is not true but why knock a fields degree?

Sociology, who do you think make up Dovision of Family Children Services?
Hint you need a degree in sociology or a related field.

But I guess we dont DFCS workers though, especially not educated ones in the study of how humans interact with one another.

Nah it would be better to leave the 8 yr old on her own to defend herself against her dad or uncle right?

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Dovision

Should be division.

Most likely not only mistake just jumped out at me.

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For the ignorant-one earns ordinary income and pays ordinary tax rates which are higher. The person may have inherited the cash after the deceased estates paid estate taxes the individual then invests and pays lower capital gains rate on earnings. The effective rate on the value creation is well over 50% There are those who watch. There are those who wonder. There are a few that do. I will add a fourth category worthless people who dwell

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Fred, to try to explain my post to you would be pointless…

You are correct because I would continue to point out the lies and the lack of reasoned thought in them and you don’t want that to happen……..

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Fred ™
September 24th, 2012
11:17 pm

Awweeeee Fred,

What no examples just you spouting your mouth off?

Should be easy you said I was blamming my bad behavior on Jimmy Joe I believe it was!

All I’m asking it what bad behavior specifically?

Or do you have nothing and you lack the character to apologize for your mistake?

Just like every Bully I ever knew you talk a lot and pontificate your crap but when called on it you dodge and hide.

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Enter your comments here

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Marty Huggins’

September 24th, 2012
10:58 pm

Towncrier
September 24th, 2012
10:55 pm

It’s only Republican preschoolers!
Didn’t you read the post only republicans were mentioned in the rant.
Thus one can only assume the poster does not feel democrats do what he complains about.
=====================================

There is your cheap excuse. Last time. Lie it away all you want but there it is. Thanks for playing.

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