Mitt’s economic adviser spills beans on middle-class tax hike

Martin Feldstein, a conservative Harvard economist, served as chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Reagan. He is also an adviser to Mitt Romney. In that role, Feldstein recently undertook a study of Romney’s proposed tax “plan” to try to prove that it is indeed mathematically possible to accomplish the three basic promises of the Romney approach. They are:

– Cut individual tax rates by 20 percent across the board;
– Make up revenue lost through the lower rates by eliminating tax deductions.
– Ensure that taxes are not raised on the middle class.

Romney has since seized upon the Feldstein study as confirmation that his plan — vague as it is — holds together mathematically. However, there are at least three* rather large and well-documented problems with Feldstein’s study:

1.) To make the math work and maintain the fiction that taxes on the middle class won’t rise, Feldstein begins by redefining that middle class. Under his formulation, every household that makes more than $100,000 would be classified as rich, not middle class. In sheer mathematical terms, that might be a valid argument. But in political terms, nobody defines the middle class as those making less than $100,000.

2.) THIS IS THE BIG ONE: To make the Romney plan work, Feldstein envisions eliminating every single itemized tax deduction available to wealthy households, which again he defines as those making more than $100,000.

Mortgage deduction, gone.

Charitable deduction, gone.

Deduction for state income taxes and for property taxes, gone. Even the standard deduction would be gone.

Those deductions are particularly important for those Americans who are usually defined as upper-middle-class. Thus, the result would be a significant tax increase under the Romney plan on those Americans making between $100,000 and $200,000. And remember, that additional revenue would not be used to reduce the deficit or to make Medicare solvent. For the most part, it would be used to finance additional large tax cuts for the truly rich, such as Romney.

But of course, since Feldstein has magically redefined those making $100,000-$200,000 out of the middle class, he can still claim that the Romney plan would not force a middle-class tax increase.

3.) Feldstein also uses so-called “dynamic scoring” — the theory that tax reform will create economic growth, which in turn will create additional federal revenue — to make the Romney tax plan pencil out. We’ll deal with concept in a post later today.

When these realities are pointed out to the Romney campaign, they fall back on the vagueness defense:. Since Romney has not identified which specific deductions he would eliminate, they claim, it is impossible to guess at what the impacts would be. That is true. But it is also true that when one of his most influential advisers took a stab at what the plan’s impact MIGHT be — using assumptions most favorable to his candidate — he ended up proving that a significant tax hike on the upper middle class would be necessary.

* (Actually, there are four. Feldstein baked an egregious basic mistake into his study, as even his fellow conservative economists concede, that makes the pending tax hike on the upper middle class even larger.

– Jay Bookman

365 comments Add your comment

ZoSo

September 17th, 2012
11:25 am

“For the most part, it would be used to finance additional large tax cuts for the truly rich, such as Romney.”

Is this your opinion or is it a fact?

stands for decibels

September 17th, 2012
11:26 am

But he cares about the middle class. and Jerbs. And Latinos, I hear.

rwcole

September 17th, 2012
11:26 am

Does anyone else get the feeling that Romney is trying to lose?

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:27 am

Finally, some specifics.

And the effect, as has been pointed out, is that those at the lower end will pay greatly higher taxes to give those at the very top a tax cut.

Let the personal denunciations of Jay and the diversions begin!

rwcole

September 17th, 2012
11:27 am

When Rupert Murdoch says you’re going too far right, you’re probably going too far right.

stands for decibels

September 17th, 2012
11:28 am

he ended up proving that a significant tax hike on the upper middle class would be necessary.

No one, you see, is smarter than heeee.

Fly-On-The-Wall

September 17th, 2012
11:28 am

And we’re suprised?

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:29 am

ZoSo

If you take a look at any of the specifics applied to Romney’s plan, such as this, or even Ryan’s plan, which Romney has not endorsed in its entirety, the effect always comes down to those at the very upper limits will realize lower outgo in taxes paid than they do now.

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
11:29 am

We need to raise taxes and cut spending what’s the problem?

ZoSo

September 17th, 2012
11:30 am

So it’s an opinion then.

Fly-On-The-Wall

September 17th, 2012
11:31 am

All you have to do is redefine what is middle class and everything is fine. Romney and team know they can’t make the math add up but they refuse to admit it. The question will be how many of the independent voters see this since they will be the ones who decide this election.

ZoSo

September 17th, 2012
11:31 am

Very well said Marty @ 11:29. I’ve been saying that for 4 years.

Aquagirl

September 17th, 2012
11:31 am

Charitable deduction, gone.

Mitt’s Magic Underwear Distributors would excommunicate him for that one.

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
11:32 am

Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:27 am

It seems that a lot of the ta x increases will be on those making over 100k.

We need to raise taxes this should not be a problem.

The Health Care law is going to raise taxes on the same folks

DannyX

September 17th, 2012
11:32 am

Romney is running one of the worst presidential campaigns ever.

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:32 am

Fly

For most, I believe it is not ’surprised’ but ‘in denial’.

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
11:34 am

Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:31 am

Is there really a need for religous bigotry in your post?
Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith?

TaxPayer

September 17th, 2012
11:34 am

Mitt’s tax plan is to reduce his taxes at the expense of those making less than him.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

September 17th, 2012
11:34 am

Mitt Romney’s tax plan is like every other plan he has…He plans to say “yessir” to everything his keepers want..

Simple Truths

September 17th, 2012
11:35 am

Jay was for higher taxes before he was for lower taxes (although he still is for higher taxes).

Fly-On-The-Wall

September 17th, 2012
11:35 am

Marty,

Raise taxes and cut spending. I’m in full support of that but the question or fight in Congress will be how much and where respectively.

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:35 am

ZoSo

Only if you think math is an opinion. You know, like “if you take a household making $120,000 and take away deductions worth $20,000 and apply a rate of N then their taxes will be T, which is D more than they are now paying.”

TaxPayer

September 17th, 2012
11:35 am

“Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith,” Mr. Bacile inquired as he accepted the money needed to produce his piece of work.

mm

September 17th, 2012
11:36 am

“The Health Care law is going to raise taxes on the same folks”

Not meant to be a factual statement.

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:37 am

Marty and ZoSo

So what’s the rationale for raising taxes on those making, say, $110K but lowering them on someone making, say, $20 million?

JF McNamara

September 17th, 2012
11:37 am

I don’t care about raising the taxes. We need to raise taxes to balance the budget. I will never, ever, ever go along with a plan that raises my taxes but cuts taxes for a favored few. If you are middle class and you would, then shame on you.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 17th, 2012
11:37 am

Well didn’t Mitt tell us just the other day that $250k is not rich? Seems to be some flip flopping and muddled messaging going on. That is just not …. oh wait, Mitt Romney, the guy that deducts his horse and refuses to share his tax returns but demands them from others.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
11:37 am

JAY,

I finished Woodwards book…fun read same as a page turning soap opera…

Most insane finding…the primary disagreements…raising taxes on the rich (800 BLN over 10 years) and the GOP requested cuts (40 BLN over ten years) can be compared to the revenue we expect to collect over the next 10 years of 38 trillion…the former is 2% and the latter is about 1%…

How we can’t find 1% waste across the board is silly to suggest….arguing that the rich should pay more is an idealogical and political tactic to further polarize the haves from the have nots…

Its one thing to make grand promises in a campaign…but the idea that the debt level should have been threatened by both parties for such paltry numbers suggests that the system is collosally broken…

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:38 am

Marty

It seems, giving it a cursory once-over, that taxes for those in the past meeting the political definition of middle class would rise steeply while those at the top couple percent could see taxes decline.

getalife

September 17th, 2012
11:39 am

He is changing his strategy to be the change candidate.

Hope for change.

Pivot back to the economy as predicted.

The gop already voted no on our President’s middle class tax cut and the only party voting yes for the middle class are the Dems.

So , if you are middle class and vote for the gop, you are voting against yourself and higher taxes.

In other words, you are an idiot.

stands for decibels

September 17th, 2012
11:39 am

while those at the top couple percent could see taxes decline.

well you see, they are smarter than us and more deserving.

Also they have more money. And they might Go Galt if we don’t attend to their delicate feeeeelings.

Brosephus™

September 17th, 2012
11:40 am

We need to raise taxes and cut spending what’s the problem?

The GOP.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
11:41 am

MM,

The actuarial assessement of the current HC law will in fact develop a health care tax simply to maintain and increase over time the subsidies for the vouchers or whatever you want to call it.

The insurers advised Pelosi that the average family premiums will increase by $20,000 by 2018 to offset the poor risk pool they will have to assume at depressed pricing…Pelosi told them to shut their mouths and she introduced legislation to eliminate anti trust exemption which sadly the insurance mechanism can’t do without..

straitroad

September 17th, 2012
11:41 am

Jay, speaking of new taxes, my health insurance cost will increase by a little over a thousand dollars in the coming year. That’s a real world consequence directly coming from your president via your vote. Emotion doesn’t make for good policy. We need a president with experience in running something, anything.

Aquagirl

September 17th, 2012
11:41 am

Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith?

If the LDS Church (or you) are ashamed of their undies that’s not my problem.

stands for decibels

September 17th, 2012
11:41 am

St Simons - (ab)original Georgian

September 17th, 2012
11:44 am

well, to be fair, someone from the Cayman Islands WOULD think

$100,000/yr is rich….

Welcome to the Occupation

September 17th, 2012
11:44 am

By the way, Frum has been particularly devastating today on his Twitter feed:

This AM’s Politico story about Stuart Stevens being to blame for Romney campaign’s troubles utterly misses the point. The Romney campaign has a messaging problem because it has a policy problem. The policy problem is that the Romney campaign offers nothing but bad news to hard-pressed Americans and the broader middle class.

How do you message: I’m doing away w Medicaid over the next 10 yrs, Medicare after that, to finance a cut in the top rate of tax to 28%? I don’t care if you hire the people who produce the ATT ads that make my wife cry, there’s no lipsticking that pig. The problem isn’t the campaign leadership; it’s the party’s followership.

Over course of campaign, Romney has changed from a pragmatic, capable manager into a dog-whistling culture warrior. Candidate cd have and shd have resisted that pressure – but it’s rich for ppl who demanded the change to complain about consequences.

I thought Stevens’ – drafted Tampa speech did good job of humanizing the man, Mitt Romney. But voters do care about the q: what will this presidency do for me? And “d$ck you over” is not a winning answer.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
11:46 am

BRO,

The problem is equally on both parties…and hard to debate either one in their current state…the tea party folks are of the opinion that since the government doesn’t respect our cash, we shouldn’t given them anymore until they show some responsibility by reducing a deficit that is a material portion of actual revenues…The DEMS don’t want to cut spending less they lose voting constituents as well.

The result (you really should read Woodwards book) is that the outcome was trivial…as mentioned above the increasing of taxes on the rich at 2% of revenues is like a fly on elephants butt…the spending cuts are like a half fly on same arse…

Fly-On-The-Wall

September 17th, 2012
11:46 am

When one party can’t even say the word ‘compromise’ then we know we have real issues.

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
11:47 am

Fly-On-The-Wall
September 17th, 2012
11:35 am

That shall be the show.

Without a new senate and congress which is not that likely will there be any cuts Or taxes agreed to with Obama back in office? History over the last four years says no.

Will Romney in office allow for more to get done? I dunno!

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:47 am

Stevie Ray

“The insurers advised Pelosi that the average family premiums will increase by $20,000 by 2018 to offset the poor risk pool they will have to assume at depressed pricing…Pelosi told them to shut their mouths and she introduced legislation to eliminate anti trust exemption which sadly the insurance mechanism can’t do without..”

This is where you’re supposed to provide a hypertext link to the source for that.

Otherwise people will think you’re making stuff up.

Or got it from Rush or Sean.

Same difference.

Citizen of the World

September 17th, 2012
11:47 am

I like President Obama’s definition of rich ($250,000 or above) much better than I like Romney’s definition of middle class (below $100,000). Earth to Romney, Earth to Romney.

Sagegirl

September 17th, 2012
11:49 am

From downstairs..

News to cheer up Republicans: Melinda Wadsley, a Republican Elector from Iowa, resigned from the Electoral College. Said she couldn’t in good conscience vote for Romney. Finally, a Republican with integrity!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/14/melinda-wadsley-iowa-gop-ron-paul_n_1883451.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
11:49 am

mm
September 17th, 2012
11:36 am

So the HC law doesn’t raise taxes on those same folks?

You need to call up the ole SC then cause they seem to say a little different

Fred ™

September 17th, 2012
11:50 am

Aquagirl

September 17th, 2012
11:31 am

Charitable deduction, gone.

Mitt’s Magic Underwear Distributors would excommunicate him for that one.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That’s not really fair. Every Mormon i know is very sincere about her/his religion. They don’t give 10% for a tax deduction, they do it because it’s their religion. I would encourage you to research the “charity” of the Mormon’s. While I don’t believe in their brand of religion, I find it has many fine points and that they “practice” it harder than anyone else. My cousin, who by ANY definition is poor, is right now in Louisiana cleaning up storm damage with the Mormon’s. They were there after Katrina with food and water before anyone else. They do stuff locally, nationally and globally. This aspect of their religion and their adherence to it is admirable.

You were probably kidding Aquagirl but I felt compelled to defend the “Mormon” part of Mitt.

http://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/humanitarian-services/#.UFdGwFFyiSo

It is the economy, stupid!

September 17th, 2012
11:51 am

Jay, thanks for the information. Gotta go. Gotta tell my wife that we are not middle class . We are now rich!

getalife

September 17th, 2012
11:51 am

I think he should unleash the radical ryan so we can flip the house Dem.

He will scare the American people to vote Dem.

“Otherwise people will think you’re making stuff up. ”

I think we already know that fact.

Or they are just lying as usual.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
11:51 am

JAY,

What exactly is President Trillions plan? I get so confused…..can’t find a budget or specific ideas except raising 2% additional revenues against 1% of the population.

Is it fair to say that the middle class can be differentiated by low middle, middle and upper middle? The overiding factor to me is what % of these folks whose outflows exceed their inflows….

Regardless, no country has gotten out of any material deficit by only taxing one class…

Paul

September 17th, 2012
11:51 am

Aquagirl

Fascination with other peoples’ undies seems a bit… weird.

But you’re all for equality, yes? So when are we gonna hear the ridicule of Jewish skull caps, Buddhist robes, Sikh turbans, Catholic dresses, Protestant Nehru collars and the like?

They BOTH suck

September 17th, 2012
11:52 am

Fred

Hope you are still making progress with the diet and exercise.

Keep it up

It is the economy, stupid!

September 17th, 2012
11:52 am

Jay. Umm Talked to my wife. She says we are definitely middle class. Perhaps you could inform Harvard of this fact ??

alittlecommonsense

September 17th, 2012
11:52 am

Jay – You pretty much ignored this item in your article – “Cut individual tax rates by 20 percent across the board”

Don’t you think that would make up for most or all of the lost deductions? I think it is very likely that this would be “revenue neutral” for people in that upper middle class range that you are so concerned about. It could be easily designed to be such. So you have proved nothing. Again.

Erwin's cat

September 17th, 2012
11:52 am

It’s all Feldstein’s speculation from what I can tell…Sure, I’d like to hear Mitt’s plan but short of that debating on what it might be is…well a waste of time..

I’m out for a while

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
11:52 am

Paul,

Came straight out of Woodwards book..I will try to find a link for you..

East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)

September 17th, 2012
11:52 am

Based on Feldstein’s study, my taxes would more than double. This much I will promise…the day the mortgage interest deduction is gone is the day I walk away from my underwater home. I doubt I am the only one.

ken

September 17th, 2012
11:53 am

The middle class cannot save money. A tax increase along with gas prices and food prices will not help their bottom line. .

Ahem

September 17th, 2012
11:53 am

@
Marty Huggins’

September 17th, 2012
11:34 am

Excellent point, Marty.

Using the same correlation that the Obama administration foisted regarding the Middle East uprisings, we can now expect Mormons numbering into the thousands to start rioting, right?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 17th, 2012
11:53 am

Charitable deduction gone? Gonna be a lot of weathy donors cutting back on their donations, especially on non-cash donations that will now be taxable events.

Brosephus™

September 17th, 2012
11:53 am

Stevie Ray

The problem is equally on both parties…and hard to debate either one in their current state

It is not an equal problem, regardless to how people try to portray it. I’m sure you read in Woodruff’s book how Boehner pulled out of the talks because he knew he couldn’t sell a plan to raise taxes to his people. If one side is stuck on stupid with ideology, there is no opportunity at all to work towards a consensus at all.

For example, if I know you’re not going to ever offer a single penny towards gas, how are we supposed to come to an agreement on carpooling to work? I have yet to see Democrats refuse to accept any budget cuts at all. They have their areas they try to protect, but they are not completey stubborn against all cuts. There is a difference between how the two ideologies contribute to our problems.

St Simons - (ab)original Georgian

September 17th, 2012
11:54 am

yes, yes – get this voodoodoo out there!

let Flip help us Flip the House

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
11:54 am

Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:38 am

Correct and my position is that by that judgement of middle class they will be as to afford it the same way those making over 250k will be able to.

We need to raise taxes and cut spending.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
11:55 am

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 17th, 2012
11:55 am

unleash the radical ryan

Is that like releasing the Kracken? Are the villagers terrorized?

RB from Gwinnett

September 17th, 2012
11:55 am

I guess we could choose Obama’s plan, fleece the rich some more, and accomplish very little in terms of real gap closure. But hey, at least it makes to moronic sheep feel like they got something over on the man while we keep charging headlong down the road to bankruptcy.

Let’s hear some more whining from the 0% about how unfair 35% is. That’s always fun and is always a fun study in why ther is no “we” in “we’re in this together”.

Commence whining zeros!!

East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)

September 17th, 2012
11:55 am

“Said she couldn’t in good conscience vote for Romney”
**********************

She is a Ron Paul supporter. So it is not like she finally saw the light.

Adam

September 17th, 2012
11:56 am

Feldstein also uses so-called “dynamic scoring”

I have seen this particular statistical trick used in a number of biased “scoring” articles/studies on tax plans. Seems to only come from the Republican side though. That somehow you can count money that will come in by virtue of you changing the tax plan. Basically, it’s a more complicated way of rebranding “Tax cuts create revenue,” which is not and never has been the case. Tax cuts reduce revenue, and you’re missing the tax increases in other areas (or general population growth contributing), perhaps deliberately, if you think otherwise.

Brosephus™

September 17th, 2012
11:57 am

What exactly is President Trillions plan? I get so confused…..can’t find a budget or specific ideas except raising 2% additional revenues against 1% of the population.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Overview

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionGPO.action?collectionCode=BUDGET

Ahem

September 17th, 2012
11:57 am

POLICE ACTIVITY ALERT

Aquagirl has been detaained for questioning after alleged involvment in inciting Mormon uprising.

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
11:57 am

Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:41 am

Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith?

If the LDS Church (or you) are ashamed of their undies that’s not my problem
————————-

Spoken like a true bigot!

JamVet

September 17th, 2012
11:58 am

But our self-destructive, neer-do-wells in Georgia will absolutely eat it up!

And just how many decades are those rubes going to fall for these half-baked premises that economic upturns, etc are a given and will make these smoke and mirror trickle down spinoffs work for them?

Fortunately, Willard is going to get his just desserts on November 6…

Adam

September 17th, 2012
11:58 am

But the bottom line is Romney has to give up on at least one of his key points to his tax plan in order for it to actually work. Redefining things isn’t going to cause anyone to go “Well, technically, he DID keep his promise” except for diehard supporters.

How do you get out of jail if you’re a mathematician? You define the inside of the cell to be the outside of the cell, and the outside to be the inside of the cell. Now you’re free and everyone else is in jail.

Aquagirl

September 17th, 2012
11:58 am

That’s not really fair. Every Mormon i know is very sincere about her/his religion. They don’t give 10% for a tax deduction, they do it because it’s their religion.

Whether individual Mormons contribute voluntarily isn’t the question…The LDS Church would likely protest eliminating the tax deduction for charitable contributions. To be fair, the Southern Baptists and a lot of other organized religions would probably scream much louder.

There are some hard-working, nice Mormons. I worked with a bunch in the military. They’re very dutiful folks. But some of them creeped me the hell out, and a sizable minority had the “what happens on deployment stays on deployment” attitude. The ex-Mormons I knew also gave me insight into what those nice, dutiful people will do if you step out of line. It’s not all happiness and Katrina cleanup.

straitroad

September 17th, 2012
11:58 am

Brosephus, Obama will blame Boehner because blaming is Obama’s default reaction to most things. The fact remains that he had a majority in the House and Senate until 2010. He could have attempted to raise taxes at that time but he didn’t because many democrats wouldn’t have voted for it.

Chris Sanchez

September 17th, 2012
11:59 am

The federal budget is a disaster that BOTH parties are responsible for creating. EVERYTHING needs to be on the table to bring the budget into surplus so we can begin paying down the national debt. That includes taxes, entitlement reform, defense, foreign aid, subsidies…EVERYTHING! Some basic kitchen table math that American families do every month is in order.

You can’t promise ever more generous entitlement benefits without having a way to pay for them. You can’t continue to grow the nation’s military without a way to pay for it.
You can’t continue to give money away to other countries that you borrow for others.
You can’t continue to expect an ever shrinking group of taxpayers to support those who pay no taxes.

America needs an adult conversation. They way we have been doing things simply isn’t working. Here’s a proposal from a firmly conservative individual: I propose we return to the tax rates under the Clinton administration However, we must also return to the same spending rates. Who’s in?

getalife

September 17th, 2012
11:59 am

Why are you cons attacking her freedom of speech?

Hypocrite much?

Adam

September 17th, 2012
11:59 am

Also it should be noted that if Romney presents a vague plan, it’s not ok even if his opponent ALSO were to produce a vague plan (which actually isn’t the case). Two wrongs don’t make a right, and “both sides do it” doesn’t make it right either.

JamVet

September 17th, 2012
12:01 pm

…fleece the rich some more…

What do Mitt Romney, Donald Trump, Steve Forbes, John Kerry and George Soros have in common?

They love the RBs of the world…

Regnad Kcin

September 17th, 2012
12:02 pm

“Brosephus, Obama will blame Boehner because blaming is Obama’s default reaction to most things”

Not intended to be a factual statement

ITS ALL BUSH"S FAULT

September 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

Flip Robme is all for Corp Welfare paid for by cutting teachers fire fighters and middle class jobs. Wake up CONs this guy will sell you out too.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

BRO,

I see both sides equally at fault…the cuts the DEMs wanted did not affect in a mateial way Medicare or SS..and they passed that ridiculous HC bill behind the scenes without adequate debate…this will be an enormous addition “tax” as currently written..

You can’t disagree with those who feel the government is not entitled to any more of our cash given spending track record that will geometrically rise….2% of an increase in rich folks taxes represents a pure idealogical and political statement.

Do I think some additional taxes are necessary…perhaps but a 2% increase is no more useful over time than a 1% decrease in spending….

One of the key issues leading to such a gutless remedy last time was that BO completely took over negotiations with speaker et al in the process by passing DEMS…the DEMS were as much involved in this debate as BO what involved in Pelosi HC debate..the DEMS where completely disgusted with the president…at one point he called Pelosi on healthcare…ranting in his typical glorious oratory BS…Pelosi put the phone on mute and they continued working..

Adam

September 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

straitroad: The fact remains that he had a majority in the House and Senate until 2010. He could have attempted to raise taxes at that time

Two things:

1) The mythical supermajority existed for a few months at the end of 2009, and not before or since. The Recovery Act passed because Olympia Snowe joined in the cloture vote on it. Obamacare passed in the Senate under supermajority, and was later reconciled with the House version of the law under reconciliation (in other words, the reconciliation wasn’t a “trick,” it was the regular process). Even if he had a supermajority the whole time, raising taxes wasn’t the priority nor should it have been during that time.

2) He actually did put raised taxes in. When? How? Come on, you know the answer… would it help if I gave you a hint? Here’s your hint: IT’S A TAX!!!!

Aquagirl

September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm

Why are you cons attacking her freedom of speech?

I don’t think anyone is demanding my comments get pulled by Jay, much less suppressed by the government.

People are perfectly free to fuss when I refer to the LDS Church as Magical Underwear Distributors. Pointing out the insanity of many religious practices gets that sort of stuff.

Ask me sometime about Magic Crackers. Or not, if you don’t want the Catholics freaking out.

Welcome to the Occupation

September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm

Chris Sanchez: “Some basic kitchen table math that American families do every month is in order.”

You realize that the “kitchen table” fallacy is the biggest pitfall of all when talking about governmental debt, don’t you?

straitroad

September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm

Regnad Kcin,

Please explain what you mean with “Not intended to be a factual statement”. Is that humor?

Adam

September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm

Stevie Ray: they passed that ridiculous HC bill behind the scenes without adequate debate…

What qualifies as adequate debate? Does 8 months on the bill and 80 YEARS in public debate circles count?

ITS ALL BUSH"S FAULT

September 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

Big Georgia companies sitting on billions in cash

Where are the trickle down jobs from the Corp welfare Cons?

gadem

September 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

GT

September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

Rope a doping; hoping the bell rings without having to fight, but Romney is the heir of a waste land of fail policy from his previous Republican administration, which rope a doped its last few months trying to make the bell. There must be a very weak respect for the functionality of thought, of the American people, by the Republican Party. This lack of respect runs parallel to the lack of caring they have shown the nation the last decade and a half. They trust that the country will believe their lies as if some study has verified our gullibility. They have made a campaign out of lying and misdirecting, hiding, it is an organized and purposeful strategy banking on the void of truth seeking in America today.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

REGNAD,

Are you suggesting President Trillions doesn’t use the blame game as his primary tool to avoid responsibility? That’s a stretch to say the least..

Look at middle east….it’s not his fault but some anti Muslim films fault despite warnings, 9/11 date, military grade attack scheme, insider knowledge, theft of documents etcetera?

I guess the president of Libya has no credibility as one in the area???

Marty Huggins'

September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

getalife
September 17th, 2012
11:59 am

So you agree with the statement or do you not feel the same point could have been expressed without the bigotry?

East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)

September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

” The Recovery Act passed because Olympia Snowe joined in the cloture vote on it”
******************

And now the Cons have run Snowe out of The Party for breaking ranks and using her own brain instead of blindly falling in line. China does the same thing when one of their members breaks from The Party line.

Adam

September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

Please explain what you mean with “Not intended to be a factual statement”. Is that humor?

It means you were not accurate, and it’s a reference to Jon Kyl who stated that 93% of what Planned Parenthood does is abortions. When he discovered his mistake, (PP does not, in fact, have 93% of their activities or any other metric you can think of from abortions), his staff released a statement that said when he said that on the floor of Congress that it was, and I quote” not intended to be a factual statement” when he said it.

straitroad

September 17th, 2012
12:07 pm

Adam,

If you’re referring to the healthcare law, then yes, I’m well aware of it and the impact it will have on me personally. My premium will skyrocket next year thanks to that law.

alittlecommonsense

September 17th, 2012
12:08 pm

Brosephus – “I have yet to see Democrats refuse to accept any budget cuts at all. They have their areas they try to protect, but they are not completey stubborn against all cuts. There is a difference between how the two ideologies contribute to our problems.”

Ok, Democrats say out of one side of their mouth that they understand we need to make budget cuts. Then out of the other side of their mouths they say they are making a huge concession by agreeing to any budget cuts. Which is it? If that is such a concession for them, then the truth is that they are against any budget cuts (except military).

Bill Orvis White

September 17th, 2012
12:08 pm

When one releases the money back to the people, JOB$ WILL BE CREATED! This is easy: Cut taxe$ on everyone. Stop big gov’t spending. Increase the military budget. Once one does those easy things, then JOB$ WILL BE CREATED!

The reality is that Mediscare/Mediraid/Social Insecurity are going broke. All those big gov’t programs along with $18trillion dollar$ in ObamaDeficits and ObamaCare are contributing to failed ObamaNomics. WE THE PEOPLE (Tea Party Republicans/Those With Common Sense) WILL get up off of our duffs and rightly vote for the honorable Gov. Mitt Romney and the honorable Rep. Paul Ryan this November. NO NEED TO TELL YOU LIBERALS THE ACTUAL DATE! LOL! I can you secular progressive liberals get the date wrong when you send your buses out for those deadbeat voters. LOL! Seriously, WE THE PEOPLE will stop this nonsense and get on with real grown-ups in the Oval Office. ObamaCare WILL be repealed and replaced with a market-based system whereby YOU CHOOSE your own doctors!

We need common sense now.

Amen,
Bill

Regnad Kcin

September 17th, 2012
12:08 pm

“Brosephus, Obama will blame Boehner because blaming is Obama’s default reaction to most things”

Straitroad – what a silly thing to say!

I mean, let’s take the phrase “most things” – you know what that means, right? Is it your postion that our Presidient has a greater than fifty percent chance, when presented with, say, a peanut butter sandwich, of having the reaction, “blaming”?

You really are a silly-pants, aren’t you?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm

ADAM,

80 years and 8 months does not make a bill that remotely is feasible…any debate was simply ceremony since Pelosicare was forgone conclusion given majority…

Although it did look somewhat like GOP’s suggestions over the years…it’s still a crap bill and will cost us trillions if left in current state…

St Simons - (ab)original Georgian

September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm

neocon policies are plenty ridiculous enough without having to make fun

of his individual religion.

But you know what the plan is, right? Stevie Wonder could see it.
At the last minute on a Friday night, you know the way they sneaked
Rupert Murdoch in the country – they’ll tag on a rider that says
bla-bla no deductions “EXCEPT CHURCHES…..” knowing politicians
will be too chicken to veto that…

…keeping that big tax free money laundering scam going.

Now what did that Jaysus feller think of the church being used
to ‘money-change?’

Adam

September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm

straitroad: My premium will skyrocket next year thanks to that law.

Why do you think that?