Mitt’s economic adviser spills beans on middle-class tax hike
Martin Feldstein, a conservative Harvard economist, served as chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Reagan. He is also an adviser to Mitt Romney. In that role, Feldstein recently undertook a study of Romney’s proposed tax “plan” to try to prove that it is indeed mathematically possible to accomplish the three basic promises of the Romney approach. They are:
– Cut individual tax rates by 20 percent across the board;
– Make up revenue lost through the lower rates by eliminating tax deductions.
– Ensure that taxes are not raised on the middle class.
Romney has since seized upon the Feldstein study as confirmation that his plan — vague as it is — holds together mathematically. However, there are at least three* rather large and well-documented problems with Feldstein’s study:
1.) To make the math work and maintain the fiction that taxes on the middle class won’t rise, Feldstein begins by redefining that middle class. Under his formulation, every household that makes more than $100,000 would be classified as rich, not middle class. In sheer mathematical terms, that might be a valid argument. But in political terms, nobody defines the middle class as those making less than $100,000.
2.) THIS IS THE BIG ONE: To make the Romney plan work, Feldstein envisions eliminating every single itemized tax deduction available to wealthy households, which again he defines as those making more than $100,000.
Mortgage deduction, gone.
Charitable deduction, gone.
Deduction for state income taxes and for property taxes, gone. Even the standard deduction would be gone.
Those deductions are particularly important for those Americans who are usually defined as upper-middle-class. Thus, the result would be a significant tax increase under the Romney plan on those Americans making between $100,000 and $200,000. And remember, that additional revenue would not be used to reduce the deficit or to make Medicare solvent. For the most part, it would be used to finance additional large tax cuts for the truly rich, such as Romney.
But of course, since Feldstein has magically redefined those making $100,000-$200,000 out of the middle class, he can still claim that the Romney plan would not force a middle-class tax increase.
3.) Feldstein also uses so-called “dynamic scoring” — the theory that tax reform will create economic growth, which in turn will create additional federal revenue — to make the Romney tax plan pencil out. We’ll deal with concept in a post later today.
When these realities are pointed out to the Romney campaign, they fall back on the vagueness defense:. Since Romney has not identified which specific deductions he would eliminate, they claim, it is impossible to guess at what the impacts would be. That is true. But it is also true that when one of his most influential advisers took a stab at what the plan’s impact MIGHT be — using assumptions most favorable to his candidate — he ended up proving that a significant tax hike on the upper middle class would be necessary.
* (Actually, there are four. Feldstein baked an egregious basic mistake into his study, as even his fellow conservative economists concede, that makes the pending tax hike on the upper middle class even larger.
– Jay Bookman
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365 comments Add your comment
ZoSo
September 17th, 2012
11:25 am
“For the most part, it would be used to finance additional large tax cuts for the truly rich, such as Romney.”
Is this your opinion or is it a fact?
stands for decibels
September 17th, 2012
11:26 am
But he cares about the middle class. and Jerbs. And Latinos, I hear.
rwcole
September 17th, 2012
11:26 am
Does anyone else get the feeling that Romney is trying to lose?
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:27 am
Finally, some specifics.
And the effect, as has been pointed out, is that those at the lower end will pay greatly higher taxes to give those at the very top a tax cut.
Let the personal denunciations of Jay and the diversions begin!
rwcole
September 17th, 2012
11:27 am
When Rupert Murdoch says you’re going too far right, you’re probably going too far right.
stands for decibels
September 17th, 2012
11:28 am
he ended up proving that a significant tax hike on the upper middle class would be necessary.
No one, you see, is smarter than heeee.
Fly-On-The-Wall
September 17th, 2012
11:28 am
And we’re suprised?
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:29 am
ZoSo
If you take a look at any of the specifics applied to Romney’s plan, such as this, or even Ryan’s plan, which Romney has not endorsed in its entirety, the effect always comes down to those at the very upper limits will realize lower outgo in taxes paid than they do now.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
11:29 am
We need to raise taxes and cut spending what’s the problem?
ZoSo
September 17th, 2012
11:30 am
So it’s an opinion then.
Fly-On-The-Wall
September 17th, 2012
11:31 am
All you have to do is redefine what is middle class and everything is fine. Romney and team know they can’t make the math add up but they refuse to admit it. The question will be how many of the independent voters see this since they will be the ones who decide this election.
ZoSo
September 17th, 2012
11:31 am
Very well said Marty @ 11:29. I’ve been saying that for 4 years.
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:31 am
Charitable deduction, gone.
Mitt’s Magic Underwear Distributors would excommunicate him for that one.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
11:32 am
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:27 am
It seems that a lot of the ta x increases will be on those making over 100k.
We need to raise taxes this should not be a problem.
The Health Care law is going to raise taxes on the same folks
DannyX
September 17th, 2012
11:32 am
Romney is running one of the worst presidential campaigns ever.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:32 am
Fly
For most, I believe it is not ’surprised’ but ‘in denial’.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
11:34 am
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:31 am
Is there really a need for religous bigotry in your post?
Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith?
TaxPayer
September 17th, 2012
11:34 am
Mitt’s tax plan is to reduce his taxes at the expense of those making less than him.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
September 17th, 2012
11:34 am
Mitt Romney’s tax plan is like every other plan he has…He plans to say “yessir” to everything his keepers want..
Simple Truths
September 17th, 2012
11:35 am
Jay was for higher taxes before he was for lower taxes (although he still is for higher taxes).
Fly-On-The-Wall
September 17th, 2012
11:35 am
Marty,
Raise taxes and cut spending. I’m in full support of that but the question or fight in Congress will be how much and where respectively.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:35 am
ZoSo
Only if you think math is an opinion. You know, like “if you take a household making $120,000 and take away deductions worth $20,000 and apply a rate of N then their taxes will be T, which is D more than they are now paying.”
TaxPayer
September 17th, 2012
11:35 am
“Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith,” Mr. Bacile inquired as he accepted the money needed to produce his piece of work.
mm
September 17th, 2012
11:36 am
“The Health Care law is going to raise taxes on the same folks”
Not meant to be a factual statement.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:37 am
Marty and ZoSo
So what’s the rationale for raising taxes on those making, say, $110K but lowering them on someone making, say, $20 million?
JF McNamara
September 17th, 2012
11:37 am
I don’t care about raising the taxes. We need to raise taxes to balance the budget. I will never, ever, ever go along with a plan that raises my taxes but cuts taxes for a favored few. If you are middle class and you would, then shame on you.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 17th, 2012
11:37 am
Well didn’t Mitt tell us just the other day that $250k is not rich? Seems to be some flip flopping and muddled messaging going on. That is just not …. oh wait, Mitt Romney, the guy that deducts his horse and refuses to share his tax returns but demands them from others.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
11:37 am
JAY,
I finished Woodwards book…fun read same as a page turning soap opera…
Most insane finding…the primary disagreements…raising taxes on the rich (800 BLN over 10 years) and the GOP requested cuts (40 BLN over ten years) can be compared to the revenue we expect to collect over the next 10 years of 38 trillion…the former is 2% and the latter is about 1%…
How we can’t find 1% waste across the board is silly to suggest….arguing that the rich should pay more is an idealogical and political tactic to further polarize the haves from the have nots…
Its one thing to make grand promises in a campaign…but the idea that the debt level should have been threatened by both parties for such paltry numbers suggests that the system is collosally broken…
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:38 am
Marty
It seems, giving it a cursory once-over, that taxes for those in the past meeting the political definition of middle class would rise steeply while those at the top couple percent could see taxes decline.
getalife
September 17th, 2012
11:39 am
He is changing his strategy to be the change candidate.
Hope for change.
Pivot back to the economy as predicted.
The gop already voted no on our President’s middle class tax cut and the only party voting yes for the middle class are the Dems.
So , if you are middle class and vote for the gop, you are voting against yourself and higher taxes.
In other words, you are an idiot.
stands for decibels
September 17th, 2012
11:39 am
while those at the top couple percent could see taxes decline.
well you see, they are smarter than us and more deserving.
Also they have more money. And they might Go Galt if we don’t attend to their delicate feeeeelings.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
11:40 am
We need to raise taxes and cut spending what’s the problem?
The GOP.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
11:41 am
MM,
The actuarial assessement of the current HC law will in fact develop a health care tax simply to maintain and increase over time the subsidies for the vouchers or whatever you want to call it.
The insurers advised Pelosi that the average family premiums will increase by $20,000 by 2018 to offset the poor risk pool they will have to assume at depressed pricing…Pelosi told them to shut their mouths and she introduced legislation to eliminate anti trust exemption which sadly the insurance mechanism can’t do without..
straitroad
September 17th, 2012
11:41 am
Jay, speaking of new taxes, my health insurance cost will increase by a little over a thousand dollars in the coming year. That’s a real world consequence directly coming from your president via your vote. Emotion doesn’t make for good policy. We need a president with experience in running something, anything.
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:41 am
Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith?
If the LDS Church (or you) are ashamed of their undies that’s not my problem.
stands for decibels
September 17th, 2012
11:41 am
Wake me up when September ends.
(Actually, make it October.)
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
11:44 am
well, to be fair, someone from the Cayman Islands WOULD think
$100,000/yr is rich….
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
11:44 am
By the way, Frum has been particularly devastating today on his Twitter feed:
This AM’s Politico story about Stuart Stevens being to blame for Romney campaign’s troubles utterly misses the point. The Romney campaign has a messaging problem because it has a policy problem. The policy problem is that the Romney campaign offers nothing but bad news to hard-pressed Americans and the broader middle class.
How do you message: I’m doing away w Medicaid over the next 10 yrs, Medicare after that, to finance a cut in the top rate of tax to 28%? I don’t care if you hire the people who produce the ATT ads that make my wife cry, there’s no lipsticking that pig. The problem isn’t the campaign leadership; it’s the party’s followership.
Over course of campaign, Romney has changed from a pragmatic, capable manager into a dog-whistling culture warrior. Candidate cd have and shd have resisted that pressure – but it’s rich for ppl who demanded the change to complain about consequences.
I thought Stevens’ – drafted Tampa speech did good job of humanizing the man, Mitt Romney. But voters do care about the q: what will this presidency do for me? And “d$ck you over” is not a winning answer.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
11:46 am
BRO,
The problem is equally on both parties…and hard to debate either one in their current state…the tea party folks are of the opinion that since the government doesn’t respect our cash, we shouldn’t given them anymore until they show some responsibility by reducing a deficit that is a material portion of actual revenues…The DEMS don’t want to cut spending less they lose voting constituents as well.
The result (you really should read Woodwards book) is that the outcome was trivial…as mentioned above the increasing of taxes on the rich at 2% of revenues is like a fly on elephants butt…the spending cuts are like a half fly on same arse…
Fly-On-The-Wall
September 17th, 2012
11:46 am
When one party can’t even say the word ‘compromise’ then we know we have real issues.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
11:47 am
Fly-On-The-Wall
September 17th, 2012
11:35 am
That shall be the show.
Without a new senate and congress which is not that likely will there be any cuts Or taxes agreed to with Obama back in office? History over the last four years says no.
Will Romney in office allow for more to get done? I dunno!
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:47 am
Stevie Ray
“The insurers advised Pelosi that the average family premiums will increase by $20,000 by 2018 to offset the poor risk pool they will have to assume at depressed pricing…Pelosi told them to shut their mouths and she introduced legislation to eliminate anti trust exemption which sadly the insurance mechanism can’t do without..”
This is where you’re supposed to provide a hypertext link to the source for that.
Otherwise people will think you’re making stuff up.
Or got it from Rush or Sean.
Same difference.
Citizen of the World
September 17th, 2012
11:47 am
I like President Obama’s definition of rich ($250,000 or above) much better than I like Romney’s definition of middle class (below $100,000). Earth to Romney, Earth to Romney.
Sagegirl
September 17th, 2012
11:49 am
From downstairs..
News to cheer up Republicans: Melinda Wadsley, a Republican Elector from Iowa, resigned from the Electoral College. Said she couldn’t in good conscience vote for Romney. Finally, a Republican with integrity!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/14/melinda-wadsley-iowa-gop-ron-paul_n_1883451.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
11:49 am
mm
September 17th, 2012
11:36 am
So the HC law doesn’t raise taxes on those same folks?
You need to call up the ole SC then cause they seem to say a little different
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
11:50 am
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:31 am
Charitable deduction, gone.
Mitt’s Magic Underwear Distributors would excommunicate him for that one.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That’s not really fair. Every Mormon i know is very sincere about her/his religion. They don’t give 10% for a tax deduction, they do it because it’s their religion. I would encourage you to research the “charity” of the Mormon’s. While I don’t believe in their brand of religion, I find it has many fine points and that they “practice” it harder than anyone else. My cousin, who by ANY definition is poor, is right now in Louisiana cleaning up storm damage with the Mormon’s. They were there after Katrina with food and water before anyone else. They do stuff locally, nationally and globally. This aspect of their religion and their adherence to it is admirable.
You were probably kidding Aquagirl but I felt compelled to defend the “Mormon” part of Mitt.
http://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/humanitarian-services/#.UFdGwFFyiSo
It is the economy, stupid!
September 17th, 2012
11:51 am
Jay, thanks for the information. Gotta go. Gotta tell my wife that we are not middle class . We are now rich!
getalife
September 17th, 2012
11:51 am
I think he should unleash the radical ryan so we can flip the house Dem.
He will scare the American people to vote Dem.
“Otherwise people will think you’re making stuff up. ”
I think we already know that fact.
Or they are just lying as usual.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
11:51 am
JAY,
What exactly is President Trillions plan? I get so confused…..can’t find a budget or specific ideas except raising 2% additional revenues against 1% of the population.
Is it fair to say that the middle class can be differentiated by low middle, middle and upper middle? The overiding factor to me is what % of these folks whose outflows exceed their inflows….
Regardless, no country has gotten out of any material deficit by only taxing one class…
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:51 am
Aquagirl
Fascination with other peoples’ undies seems a bit… weird.
But you’re all for equality, yes? So when are we gonna hear the ridicule of Jewish skull caps, Buddhist robes, Sikh turbans, Catholic dresses, Protestant Nehru collars and the like?
They BOTH suck
September 17th, 2012
11:52 am
Fred
Hope you are still making progress with the diet and exercise.
Keep it up
It is the economy, stupid!
September 17th, 2012
11:52 am
Jay. Umm Talked to my wife. She says we are definitely middle class. Perhaps you could inform Harvard of this fact ??
alittlecommonsense
September 17th, 2012
11:52 am
Jay – You pretty much ignored this item in your article – “Cut individual tax rates by 20 percent across the board”
Don’t you think that would make up for most or all of the lost deductions? I think it is very likely that this would be “revenue neutral” for people in that upper middle class range that you are so concerned about. It could be easily designed to be such. So you have proved nothing. Again.
Erwin's cat
September 17th, 2012
11:52 am
It’s all Feldstein’s speculation from what I can tell…Sure, I’d like to hear Mitt’s plan but short of that debating on what it might be is…well a waste of time..
I’m out for a while
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
11:52 am
Paul,
Came straight out of Woodwards book..I will try to find a link for you..
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
September 17th, 2012
11:52 am
Based on Feldstein’s study, my taxes would more than double. This much I will promise…the day the mortgage interest deduction is gone is the day I walk away from my underwater home. I doubt I am the only one.
ken
September 17th, 2012
11:53 am
The middle class cannot save money. A tax increase along with gas prices and food prices will not help their bottom line. .
Ahem
September 17th, 2012
11:53 am
@
Marty Huggins’
September 17th, 2012
11:34 am
Excellent point, Marty.
Using the same correlation that the Obama administration foisted regarding the Middle East uprisings, we can now expect Mormons numbering into the thousands to start rioting, right?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 17th, 2012
11:53 am
Charitable deduction gone? Gonna be a lot of weathy donors cutting back on their donations, especially on non-cash donations that will now be taxable events.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
11:53 am
Stevie Ray
The problem is equally on both parties…and hard to debate either one in their current state
It is not an equal problem, regardless to how people try to portray it. I’m sure you read in Woodruff’s book how Boehner pulled out of the talks because he knew he couldn’t sell a plan to raise taxes to his people. If one side is stuck on stupid with ideology, there is no opportunity at all to work towards a consensus at all.
For example, if I know you’re not going to ever offer a single penny towards gas, how are we supposed to come to an agreement on carpooling to work? I have yet to see Democrats refuse to accept any budget cuts at all. They have their areas they try to protect, but they are not completey stubborn against all cuts. There is a difference between how the two ideologies contribute to our problems.
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
11:54 am
yes, yes – get this voodoodoo out there!
let Flip help us Flip the House
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
11:54 am
Paul
September 17th, 2012
11:38 am
Correct and my position is that by that judgement of middle class they will be as to afford it the same way those making over 250k will be able to.
We need to raise taxes and cut spending.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
11:55 am
PAUL,
Source you would not question….
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/us/politics/18address.html
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 17th, 2012
11:55 am
unleash the radical ryan
Is that like releasing the Kracken? Are the villagers terrorized?
RB from Gwinnett
September 17th, 2012
11:55 am
I guess we could choose Obama’s plan, fleece the rich some more, and accomplish very little in terms of real gap closure. But hey, at least it makes to moronic sheep feel like they got something over on the man while we keep charging headlong down the road to bankruptcy.
Let’s hear some more whining from the 0% about how unfair 35% is. That’s always fun and is always a fun study in why ther is no “we” in “we’re in this together”.
Commence whining zeros!!
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
September 17th, 2012
11:55 am
“Said she couldn’t in good conscience vote for Romney”
**********************
She is a Ron Paul supporter. So it is not like she finally saw the light.
Adam
September 17th, 2012
11:56 am
Feldstein also uses so-called “dynamic scoring”
I have seen this particular statistical trick used in a number of biased “scoring” articles/studies on tax plans. Seems to only come from the Republican side though. That somehow you can count money that will come in by virtue of you changing the tax plan. Basically, it’s a more complicated way of rebranding “Tax cuts create revenue,” which is not and never has been the case. Tax cuts reduce revenue, and you’re missing the tax increases in other areas (or general population growth contributing), perhaps deliberately, if you think otherwise.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
11:57 am
What exactly is President Trillions plan? I get so confused…..can’t find a budget or specific ideas except raising 2% additional revenues against 1% of the population.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Overview
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionGPO.action?collectionCode=BUDGET
Ahem
September 17th, 2012
11:57 am
POLICE ACTIVITY ALERT
Aquagirl has been detaained for questioning after alleged involvment in inciting Mormon uprising.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
11:57 am
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:41 am
Could the same point not have been made without makin fun of someone’s faith?
If the LDS Church (or you) are ashamed of their undies that’s not my problem
————————-
Spoken like a true bigot!
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
11:58 am
But our self-destructive, neer-do-wells in Georgia will absolutely eat it up!
And just how many decades are those rubes going to fall for these half-baked premises that economic upturns, etc are a given and will make these smoke and mirror trickle down spinoffs work for them?
Fortunately, Willard is going to get his just desserts on November 6…
Adam
September 17th, 2012
11:58 am
But the bottom line is Romney has to give up on at least one of his key points to his tax plan in order for it to actually work. Redefining things isn’t going to cause anyone to go “Well, technically, he DID keep his promise” except for diehard supporters.
How do you get out of jail if you’re a mathematician? You define the inside of the cell to be the outside of the cell, and the outside to be the inside of the cell. Now you’re free and everyone else is in jail.
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
11:58 am
That’s not really fair. Every Mormon i know is very sincere about her/his religion. They don’t give 10% for a tax deduction, they do it because it’s their religion.
Whether individual Mormons contribute voluntarily isn’t the question…The LDS Church would likely protest eliminating the tax deduction for charitable contributions. To be fair, the Southern Baptists and a lot of other organized religions would probably scream much louder.
There are some hard-working, nice Mormons. I worked with a bunch in the military. They’re very dutiful folks. But some of them creeped me the hell out, and a sizable minority had the “what happens on deployment stays on deployment” attitude. The ex-Mormons I knew also gave me insight into what those nice, dutiful people will do if you step out of line. It’s not all happiness and Katrina cleanup.
straitroad
September 17th, 2012
11:58 am
Brosephus, Obama will blame Boehner because blaming is Obama’s default reaction to most things. The fact remains that he had a majority in the House and Senate until 2010. He could have attempted to raise taxes at that time but he didn’t because many democrats wouldn’t have voted for it.
Chris Sanchez
September 17th, 2012
11:59 am
The federal budget is a disaster that BOTH parties are responsible for creating. EVERYTHING needs to be on the table to bring the budget into surplus so we can begin paying down the national debt. That includes taxes, entitlement reform, defense, foreign aid, subsidies…EVERYTHING! Some basic kitchen table math that American families do every month is in order.
You can’t promise ever more generous entitlement benefits without having a way to pay for them. You can’t continue to grow the nation’s military without a way to pay for it.
You can’t continue to give money away to other countries that you borrow for others.
You can’t continue to expect an ever shrinking group of taxpayers to support those who pay no taxes.
America needs an adult conversation. They way we have been doing things simply isn’t working. Here’s a proposal from a firmly conservative individual: I propose we return to the tax rates under the Clinton administration However, we must also return to the same spending rates. Who’s in?
getalife
September 17th, 2012
11:59 am
Why are you cons attacking her freedom of speech?
Hypocrite much?
Adam
September 17th, 2012
11:59 am
Also it should be noted that if Romney presents a vague plan, it’s not ok even if his opponent ALSO were to produce a vague plan (which actually isn’t the case). Two wrongs don’t make a right, and “both sides do it” doesn’t make it right either.
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
12:01 pm
…fleece the rich some more…
What do Mitt Romney, Donald Trump, Steve Forbes, John Kerry and George Soros have in common?
They love the RBs of the world…
Regnad Kcin
September 17th, 2012
12:02 pm
“Brosephus, Obama will blame Boehner because blaming is Obama’s default reaction to most things”
Not intended to be a factual statement
ITS ALL BUSH"S FAULT
September 17th, 2012
12:03 pm
Flip Robme is all for Corp Welfare paid for by cutting teachers fire fighters and middle class jobs. Wake up CONs this guy will sell you out too.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:03 pm
BRO,
I see both sides equally at fault…the cuts the DEMs wanted did not affect in a mateial way Medicare or SS..and they passed that ridiculous HC bill behind the scenes without adequate debate…this will be an enormous addition “tax” as currently written..
You can’t disagree with those who feel the government is not entitled to any more of our cash given spending track record that will geometrically rise….2% of an increase in rich folks taxes represents a pure idealogical and political statement.
Do I think some additional taxes are necessary…perhaps but a 2% increase is no more useful over time than a 1% decrease in spending….
One of the key issues leading to such a gutless remedy last time was that BO completely took over negotiations with speaker et al in the process by passing DEMS…the DEMS were as much involved in this debate as BO what involved in Pelosi HC debate..the DEMS where completely disgusted with the president…at one point he called Pelosi on healthcare…ranting in his typical glorious oratory BS…Pelosi put the phone on mute and they continued working..
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:03 pm
straitroad: The fact remains that he had a majority in the House and Senate until 2010. He could have attempted to raise taxes at that time
Two things:
1) The mythical supermajority existed for a few months at the end of 2009, and not before or since. The Recovery Act passed because Olympia Snowe joined in the cloture vote on it. Obamacare passed in the Senate under supermajority, and was later reconciled with the House version of the law under reconciliation (in other words, the reconciliation wasn’t a “trick,” it was the regular process). Even if he had a supermajority the whole time, raising taxes wasn’t the priority nor should it have been during that time.
2) He actually did put raised taxes in. When? How? Come on, you know the answer… would it help if I gave you a hint? Here’s your hint: IT’S A TAX!!!!
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
Why are you cons attacking her freedom of speech?
I don’t think anyone is demanding my comments get pulled by Jay, much less suppressed by the government.
People are perfectly free to fuss when I refer to the LDS Church as Magical Underwear Distributors. Pointing out the insanity of many religious practices gets that sort of stuff.
Ask me sometime about Magic Crackers. Or not, if you don’t want the Catholics freaking out.
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
Chris Sanchez: “Some basic kitchen table math that American families do every month is in order.”
You realize that the “kitchen table” fallacy is the biggest pitfall of all when talking about governmental debt, don’t you?
straitroad
September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
Regnad Kcin,
Please explain what you mean with “Not intended to be a factual statement”. Is that humor?
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
Stevie Ray: they passed that ridiculous HC bill behind the scenes without adequate debate…
What qualifies as adequate debate? Does 8 months on the bill and 80 YEARS in public debate circles count?
ITS ALL BUSH"S FAULT
September 17th, 2012
12:05 pm
Big Georgia companies sitting on billions in cash
Where are the trickle down jobs from the Corp welfare Cons?
gadem
September 17th, 2012
12:05 pm
http://www.isidewith.com/
GT
September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
Rope a doping; hoping the bell rings without having to fight, but Romney is the heir of a waste land of fail policy from his previous Republican administration, which rope a doped its last few months trying to make the bell. There must be a very weak respect for the functionality of thought, of the American people, by the Republican Party. This lack of respect runs parallel to the lack of caring they have shown the nation the last decade and a half. They trust that the country will believe their lies as if some study has verified our gullibility. They have made a campaign out of lying and misdirecting, hiding, it is an organized and purposeful strategy banking on the void of truth seeking in America today.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
REGNAD,
Are you suggesting President Trillions doesn’t use the blame game as his primary tool to avoid responsibility? That’s a stretch to say the least..
Look at middle east….it’s not his fault but some anti Muslim films fault despite warnings, 9/11 date, military grade attack scheme, insider knowledge, theft of documents etcetera?
I guess the president of Libya has no credibility as one in the area???
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
getalife
September 17th, 2012
11:59 am
So you agree with the statement or do you not feel the same point could have been expressed without the bigotry?
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
” The Recovery Act passed because Olympia Snowe joined in the cloture vote on it”
******************
And now the Cons have run Snowe out of The Party for breaking ranks and using her own brain instead of blindly falling in line. China does the same thing when one of their members breaks from The Party line.
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
Please explain what you mean with “Not intended to be a factual statement”. Is that humor?
It means you were not accurate, and it’s a reference to Jon Kyl who stated that 93% of what Planned Parenthood does is abortions. When he discovered his mistake, (PP does not, in fact, have 93% of their activities or any other metric you can think of from abortions), his staff released a statement that said when he said that on the floor of Congress that it was, and I quote” not intended to be a factual statement” when he said it.
straitroad
September 17th, 2012
12:07 pm
Adam,
If you’re referring to the healthcare law, then yes, I’m well aware of it and the impact it will have on me personally. My premium will skyrocket next year thanks to that law.
alittlecommonsense
September 17th, 2012
12:08 pm
Brosephus – “I have yet to see Democrats refuse to accept any budget cuts at all. They have their areas they try to protect, but they are not completey stubborn against all cuts. There is a difference between how the two ideologies contribute to our problems.”
Ok, Democrats say out of one side of their mouth that they understand we need to make budget cuts. Then out of the other side of their mouths they say they are making a huge concession by agreeing to any budget cuts. Which is it? If that is such a concession for them, then the truth is that they are against any budget cuts (except military).
Bill Orvis White
September 17th, 2012
12:08 pm
When one releases the money back to the people, JOB$ WILL BE CREATED! This is easy: Cut taxe$ on everyone. Stop big gov’t spending. Increase the military budget. Once one does those easy things, then JOB$ WILL BE CREATED!
The reality is that Mediscare/Mediraid/Social Insecurity are going broke. All those big gov’t programs along with $18trillion dollar$ in ObamaDeficits and ObamaCare are contributing to failed ObamaNomics. WE THE PEOPLE (Tea Party Republicans/Those With Common Sense) WILL get up off of our duffs and rightly vote for the honorable Gov. Mitt Romney and the honorable Rep. Paul Ryan this November. NO NEED TO TELL YOU LIBERALS THE ACTUAL DATE! LOL! I can you secular progressive liberals get the date wrong when you send your buses out for those deadbeat voters. LOL! Seriously, WE THE PEOPLE will stop this nonsense and get on with real grown-ups in the Oval Office. ObamaCare WILL be repealed and replaced with a market-based system whereby YOU CHOOSE your own doctors!
We need common sense now.
Amen,
Bill
Regnad Kcin
September 17th, 2012
12:08 pm
“Brosephus, Obama will blame Boehner because blaming is Obama’s default reaction to most things”
Straitroad – what a silly thing to say!
I mean, let’s take the phrase “most things” – you know what that means, right? Is it your postion that our Presidient has a greater than fifty percent chance, when presented with, say, a peanut butter sandwich, of having the reaction, “blaming”?
You really are a silly-pants, aren’t you?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm
ADAM,
80 years and 8 months does not make a bill that remotely is feasible…any debate was simply ceremony since Pelosicare was forgone conclusion given majority…
Although it did look somewhat like GOP’s suggestions over the years…it’s still a crap bill and will cost us trillions if left in current state…
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm
neocon policies are plenty ridiculous enough without having to make fun
of his individual religion.
But you know what the plan is, right? Stevie Wonder could see it.
At the last minute on a Friday night, you know the way they sneaked
Rupert Murdoch in the country – they’ll tag on a rider that says
bla-bla no deductions “EXCEPT CHURCHES…..” knowing politicians
will be too chicken to veto that…
…keeping that big tax free money laundering scam going.
Now what did that Jaysus feller think of the church being used
to ‘money-change?’
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm
straitroad: My premium will skyrocket next year thanks to that law.
Why do you think that?
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm
Oh, by the way, to anybody who’ll listen, we have a DEMOCRATIC mayor of one of the nation’s major urban centers who is trying to get the teachers strike in his city shut down on the basis of being illegal.
Amazing isn’t it?
straitroad
September 17th, 2012
12:09 pm
Adam, thanks for the info. I didn’t know if she was trying to be cute or funny.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
12:10 pm
Stevie Ray 11:52
Woodward’s book? Thanks. I turned on Morning Joe after he’d been on for a while. Was a most interesting discussion. One of the panelists looked like he was going to burst, he was having such a hard time keeping his mouth shut.
What I did hear was Joe Scarborough say he owed Sen Mitch McConnell an apology .
“OE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: And Bob, you talk about this. And you see it time and time again in your book where Republicans give ideas, and every idea is rejected outright. I want to focus, though, on a quote. And I’ve got to admit, just by reading press reports, I didn’t know the other side of the Mitch McConnell quote. And I think I, at least, owe him an apology here on the air because we’ve repeated it a thousand times where Mitch McConnell says, my one priority, my top priority is preventing a second Obama term. But you actually pull out what nobody in the media pulls out, and that’s the rest of Mitch McConnell’s statement. What is it?
BOB WOODWARD: And where McConnell says, I don’t want Obama to fail, I want him to change. And I agree with you. I think that that’s significant. Now, there is a brazenness to the first part of the quote, and as you know, Mitch McConnell is…
JOE SCARBOROUGH: He’s tough.
BOB WOODWARD: He’s a hard ass on these subjects, to say the least.
JOE SCARBOROUGH: But McConnell went on to say — and it’s just never been reported — McConnell went on to say, but if he changes, I want to work with him, and basically that’s the attitude of if the guy will meet us halfway — and I see John Heilemann rolling his eyes around the set, but time and time and time again, republicans offered suggestions, and time and time and time again, the first two years, the president rejected them outright.”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/09/17/woodward-gets-scarborough-apologize-misreporting-mcconnells-make-obam
video at link
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:10 pm
marty,
No a fan of organized religion. I find Mormons bizarre like Scientology and think killing in the name of religion is the ultimate sin. Religions kills.
MANGLER
September 17th, 2012
12:11 pm
Tiered tax tables are arbitrary and (can be) regressive. Flat tax for all income levels, whatever that rate is decided on. Sure, it will go up for some and go down for others, but it will be fair.
Tramicia
September 17th, 2012
12:11 pm
Now that I am considered ‘rich’ I don’t know whether I should be flattered or fearful.
Seriously someone needs to tell Dr. Feldstein that, in 2012, $100,000 a year is not wealthy. He’s an older gentleman and like many older folks his $ paradigm is stuck in an earlier era. He probably believes $10K is more than enough to pay for a new car.
Eliminating the home mortgage interest deduction might fly @ the current low rates ~ 3% if you grandfathered in people with older loans, but once interest rates start rising new home buyers would demand that it be reinstated.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
12:11 pm
Obama will blame Boehner because blaming is Obama’s default reaction to most things. The fact remains that he had a majority in the House and Senate until 2010.
Seems that you fail to realize that he did not have a voting majority to override filibusters and such. Had he had the majority as many try to claim, he would have filled all of his appointed positions within his first 6 months in office and not have any that are still being held up today.
You also forget that Obama does not write or vote on legislation. By Constitutional authority, that comes from Congress for Obama to sign. If Congress doesn’t write it, then Obama can’t sign it. You might want to take a refresher civics course.
One last thing, if you expect anybody in DC to vote to purposefully raise their own taxes, then you might want to consider lowering your expectations quite a bit.
RB from Gwinnett
September 17th, 2012
12:11 pm
What do JamVet and a room full of welfare queens have in common? They have no idea how little of the budget gap can be closed by raising taxes on the rich as is proposed by Obama and they don’t care as long as their free stuff keeps rollin’ in. They’re probably even ignorant enough to think raising the income tax rate to 39% would have an effect on Romneys 13% effective tax rate.
In short, they ain’t the sharpest in the drawer….
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
12:11 pm
You failed to mention that a 20% across the board tax rate is a tax cut for all working Americans. Obama wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire that will raise rates on everyone without any changing in the tax structure…..
curious
September 17th, 2012
12:12 pm
Again, the vast majority of people voting for Romney will be screwed along with the rest of us.
Romney and the people in his economic sphere will get richer.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
12:12 pm
Everyone is making fun of Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), whose camp defended his assertion that 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood did was abortions by noting “His remark was not intended to be a factual statement.”
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:12 pm
Stevie Ray: Although it did look somewhat like GOP’s suggestions over the years…it’s still a crap bill and will cost us trillions if left in current state…
First I totally don’t understand what you are saying (or maybe I do) when you say 80 years and 8 months isn’t enough.
Second, for anyone to think this is the end-all be-all of health care must be out of their ever-loving mind. This law is meant to address so many problems that anything built on top of it, now or in the near future, will be significantly less difficult and involve significantly less debate. It’s like getting a car that isn’t quite the way you wanted, but it will do everything you need and save you money on gas mileage. You can worry about getting a better car, or upgrading your existing one, later when you can afford it.
stands for decibels
September 17th, 2012
12:12 pm
You realize that the “kitchen table” fallacy is the biggest pitfall of all when talking about governmental debt, don’t you?
You mean to tell me most American households aren’t able to work with debt they’ve been carrying since the end of the Andrew Jackson administration? That they can’t print their own currency, and invade countries that mess with their economic well-being?
why that’s crazy talk.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:13 pm
REGNAD,
Let’s see…the deficit, unemployment, problems in middle east, state of banks and wall street..also, remember the promises to “end the days of lobbyists controlling the DC agenda” or how about taking down telecon…taking on the “fat” cats, promising to prosecute the aformentioned?
What has he taken responsibility for…???
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
12:13 pm
Look at middle east….it’s not his fault…
OF COURSE, IT IS NOT HIS FAULT!!
The place has been a seething boiling cauldron for thousands of years.
And George W. Bush poured $10,000,000,000,000.00 worth of gasoline on that fire.
And one more time for the apologists here, at least unlike Romney, the President didn’t blame our embassy personnel for sympathizing with their attackers.
More evidence that the disgusting Mitt is often dumb as a bag of hammers.
And unfit to lead…
straitroad
September 17th, 2012
12:14 pm
Adam, it’s not something that I think, rather it what I received from my provider and then explained to me by my employer. It wasn’t a surprise to me and I had been anticipating it. Simple logic dictates that adding non-paying customers to a service will increase costs for those who do pay.
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:14 pm
woodwaord’s book is based on the gop’s words. They lie.
Take tax cuts for the rich that we tried for decades off the table and you will see a deal.
Regnad Kcin
September 17th, 2012
12:15 pm
“Let’s see…the deficit, unemployment, problems in middle east, state of banks and wall street”
I bet he’d take responibility for doubling the Dow.
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
12:15 pm
I’m thinking my taxes are going up because of a movie…..
Paul
September 17th, 2012
12:15 pm
Stevie Ray
“Source you would not question….
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/us/politics/18address.html”
If you’d have been on this blog longer you’d know I regularly NYTimes editorials.
But this link – talking about Administration disagreement with health-insurance-industry-conducted studies is a far cry from what you first posted: “The insurers advised Pelosi that the average family premiums will increase by $20,000 by 2018 to offset the poor risk pool they will have to assume at depressed pricing…Pelosi told them to shut their mouths and she introduced legislation to eliminate anti trust exemption which sadly the insurance mechanism can’t do without..”
THe NYTimes reported the insurance industry said premiums would increase by 18% – not by $20,000.
Chris Sanchez
September 17th, 2012
12:15 pm
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
You realize that the “kitchen table” fallacy is the biggest pitfall of all when talking about governmental debt, don’t you?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What fallacy? My family and I operate each month using a budget and it isn’t difficult to put together. We spend less than we take in. We have a pretty good idea what our monthly expenditures will be and budget accordingly. Our government doesn’t seem to get that. When was the last time our government passed a budget on time (by September 30th)? 1997 folks. Regardless of who was in control of Congress…regardless of who was in the White House. If my family ran our checkbook like that it would, well, look like the federal government without the ability to print money.
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:16 pm
What do JamVet and a room full of welfare queens have in common?
Nothing, because welfare queens (women who use welfare money to live large, as well as some stereotypical variations) do not exist.
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
12:16 pm
The economy sux because of a movie…..
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:16 pm
What fallacy? My family and I operate each month using a budget and it isn’t difficult to put together.
WttO: There’s your answer. He does NOT realize it’s a fallacy.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
12:16 pm
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:10 pm
That’s fine I’m not a big fan of organized religion either. I do have respect for people’s beliefs and understand that the people who believe are bad because of the bad acts of their “religion”
I just happen to feel it is not needed to ridicule a religion, race, sex just to make a point or to make the point stronger.
If that is the only way to make ones point the. One never really had a point
straitroad
September 17th, 2012
12:16 pm
Brocephus,
Was the congressional makeup any different during the passage of the health care law?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:17 pm
ADAM,
What i’m saying is that having 80 years of meaningless debate and 8 months of partisan hubris a good, workable bill does not make…any debate ended with DEM controlled congress…no transparency (we both know CSPAN broadcasts where unaccessable to most and don’t remotely resemble the actual debates behind closed doors..)
Peter
September 17th, 2012
12:17 pm
Charitable deduction, gone.
Yes those Republican’s care about the needy !
Can we flip flop more please Romney !
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
September 17th, 2012
12:18 pm
“He probably believes $10K is more than enough to pay for a new car.” – Tramicia @12:11
**************************
10K can buy 4 new cars………………….
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17984516
Paul
September 17th, 2012
12:18 pm
RB from Gwinnett 11:55
So you’re against any tax increases for the rich because it wouldn’t raise enough, but you’re okay with middle-class tax increases no matter how much is raised?
curious
September 17th, 2012
12:18 pm
Nothing wrong with the Middle East.
Except for maybe Iran, their offical Governments seem to want to work with us.
The problem is because of some zealots over here who know exactly what they’re doing are inflaming a bunch of zealots in the Middle East.
It’s called Democracy; they just haven’t had 200 years to nuture the concept.
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
12:19 pm
“Simple logic dictates that adding non-paying customers to a service will increase costs for those who do pay”
Simple logic also dictates that we are ALREADY paying for non-paying customers in the form of higher medical costs so hospitals and clinics can afford to treat those who can’t pay.
Peter
September 17th, 2012
12:19 pm
Since 2008 American’s have lost 12 Trillion…… Gee no wonder the GOP are not wanted in the White house…… Give the Fox back the Hen House.. Definitely NOT !
Just Saying..
September 17th, 2012
12:19 pm
Maybe some “Marathon Math” from Paul Ryan would help…
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
12:19 pm
You can’t disagree with those who feel the government is not entitled to any more of our cash given spending track record that will geometrically rise….2% of an increase in rich folks taxes represents a pure idealogical and political statement.
I can disagree with them, and I do. As a country with an ever increasing population, it will take ever increasing amounts of money to provide even the necessary government functions. Anybody who doesn’t realize that obviously slept through math classes. I’m not even talking about adding new programs, but merely providing the basics.
The people who complain about the spending track record of government have nobody to blame but themselves. When the historical re-election rate of Congress is 85%, who’s really at fault for that track record. If you keep electing the same jackasses and expecting different results, it’s no longer simply the fault of the jackasses.
—————————-
Ok, Democrats say out of one side of their mouth that they understand we need to make budget cuts. Then out of the other side of their mouths they say they are making a huge concession by agreeing to any budget cuts.
Well, when have you even heard a Republican say that they would even entertain the thought of a tax increase? That’s where the problem is. If one party is willing to budge on their principles while the other is not, how do you expect anything to be accomplished?
I’d also add that when Republicans are being selected and elected based on the rhetoric such as Mourdock, where does the true source of the problem originate?
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:20 pm
Chris: If the U.S. were a real family, then in the late nineties what happened was they finally made good and started spending less than they took in, and were paying down their debt. Then the breadwinner of the family decided that in order to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that spending did not go up, he asked his boss to cut his pay by about 25-50%. Oops. Spending continued, but revenue dropped. And dad just HAD to go invade two houses next door so he put his machine gun arsenal and mercenaries on his credit cards. He also did the same when he insisted that the kids’ grandma get the most expensive drugs possible. And his boss likes the fact that he isn’t paying as much in labor. Dad has asked for his pay back a couple of times, but boss has refused.
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:22 pm
Stevie Ray: no transparency (we both know CSPAN broadcasts where unaccessable to most and don’t remotely resemble the actual debates behind closed doors..)
Tell me any law that was passed with the kind of transparency that you are applying to this law.
Or is this just about “BUT HE PROMIIIIIIIIIISED!” (whine)?
Seriously, this sounds like the boss who fires the hard working employee for making a single mistake while keeping the blundering idiot who is always late and makes tons of mistakes a day, because he “expects more out of” the hard worker.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
Was the congressional makeup any different during the passage of the health care law?
Go back and study HOW the health care law was passed, and you will begin to understand the truth about majorities and such. Simply having one or two more people doesn’t necessarily mean you have the votes to do whatever you choose.
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
They have no idea how little of the budget gap can be closed by raising taxes on the rich…
Wrong, oh uninformed one.
Raising their tax rate has virtually NOTHING to do with balancing budgets, deficit gaps etc.
That is just mindless crap that you dittoheada parrot, although I’ve never seen anybody BUT you neocons ever say it.
It has everything to do with ending welfare for the wealthy and implementing economic justice in this country.
Are you familiar with that J word?
i.e., them paying a MUCH higher effective tax rate than you do on their MUCH higher wealth. Not about the same, not a tad more and in thousnads of cases, paying NOTHING AT ALL.
Yep, that;s right you gullible Gwinnettian, thousands and thousands of millionaires in this country pay Zippety Doo Dah to Uncle Sam in any give year.
And you love helping foot their bill. I don’t.
…as is proposed by Obama and they don’t care as long as their free stuff keeps rollin’ in.
Says one of the bigger never-served, never-will welfare queen mooches on this blog…
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
Marty,
Yes, we have freedom of religion in this country and we have a candidate that is a Mormon and some cons don’t like it.
They are free to express their. opinions. I believe in separation of church and state and believe to get your religion out of my politics.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
Tramicia
“Seriously someone needs to tell Dr. Feldstein that, in 2012, $100,000 a year is not wealthy. He’s an older gentleman and like many older folks his $ paradigm is stuck in an earlier era.”
What he’s not is a younger guy who thinks having every toy on the market right NOW is the was life is supposed to be.
Whatever one wants to call it, when one person makes double the median household income (that’s the income of all people in the household) there’s no way that person can be considered in the ‘middle.’
Don
September 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
Just to clarify, the $100,000 is for single taxpayers. For married couples, it would be $200,000 which isn’t far from the Obama dividing line of $250,000.
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
Just step back and think about this for one moment. One of the most detestable figures in American politics is a mayor who’s trying to bust a legitimate strike.
And he’s a Democrat!
A Democrat.
What does that tell you?
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
straitroad: Simple logic dictates that adding non-paying customers to a service will increase costs for those who do pay.
What makes you think there will be non-paying customers? The mandate takes care of anyone who can afford it, and increased taxes take care of those who can’t. What’s the problem?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:25 pm
PAUL,
Exact quote from article..
The report, issued by America’s Health Insurance Plans, concluded that premiums would rise 18 percent more under provisions of a Senate bill than they would otherwise in the next decade, to an average of nearly $26,000 for families and $9,700 for individuals in 2019. The White House dismissed the study as “deeply flawed” and noted that it did not account for subsidies in the bill to help people who could not afford insurance.
What BO didn’t say is that the subsidies are meaningless at current levels so both taxpayers and current insureds will foot the bill…the actuarial position of insurers is not inaccurate..
The 18% is an annual number…thats how you get to a two hundred % increase..given the failure of every other government foray into insurance, how on earth do you think this bill will not cost taxpayer and insureds trillions…
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
September 17th, 2012
12:25 pm
“Yes, we have freedom of religion in this country and we have a candidate that is a Mormon and some cons don’t like it.” – getalife @ 12:23
*****************
The WASPs are having a hard time getting over the fact that their reign is history.
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:27 pm
The WASPs are having a hard time getting over the fact that their reign is history.
Oh, you mean white people are afraid of becoming minorities?
Why? Are minorities treated as second class citizens or something?
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
Yes, we have freedom of religion in this country and we have a candidate that is a Mormon and some cons don’t like it.
There ya go. I should have said Mitt is doomed to an eternity in hell for worshiping a demon. That’s much less controversial than making fun of his underwear.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
Who is putting religion into politics.
Has Romney made his religion a focal point?
Jay
September 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
Also, I see that while I was putting this piece together, Joseph was getting a might righteous about charter schools below, suggesting that I was ducking him.
For those interested, he now has the answer that he thought he wanted.
Speed Racer
September 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
Again, we are distracted by conversations about tax collection instead of focusing on spending cuts.
curious
September 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
Steve.
Does American Health Care Plans have any vested interest in Obamacare being shot down or are they just interested in the welfare of the US citizenry?
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
Marty,
I guess you missed his speech at the convention.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
Or you could have made your point without bringing up any specific religion at all.
But you chose to attempt to elevate yourself by lowering others.
Jay
September 17th, 2012
12:31 pm
AquaGirl, the snide slam on Romney’s religious is completely unnecessary and demeans you and the argument that you attempt to make.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
12:32 pm
Who is putting religion into politics.
For the past generation, conservatives have.
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:32 pm
Marty,
I guess you missed his speech at the convention.
Our President looks rested and said Ohio can start voting in two weeks on October 2.
I did not know that.
Peter
September 17th, 2012
12:32 pm
Well here is what the GOP voters want to hear……….
Critics of Mitt Romney’s tax reform plan say his proposal leaves out too many details, but Paul Ryan, the Republican presidential nominee’s running mate, says keeping the proposal vague gives it the best chance for passage through Congress.
Basically nothing……..and that is why they vote ?
It is the economy, stupid!
September 17th, 2012
12:32 pm
Jay, Rom-Rom’s tax plan, if implemented, would push a teetering economy back into recession. Taxing the middle class, which consumes about 70% of the nation’s goods and services, would result in reduced consumption , which in return would depress the economy . Sad that Rom-Rom doesn’t understand that fact.
Chris Sanchez
September 17th, 2012
12:33 pm
Adam
September 17th, 2012
12:20 pm
So do you support going back to the tax AND spending levels of the Clinton Administration or not? Blaming Bush only gets you so far…just like blaming Obama will only get the GOP so far.
Sagegirl
September 17th, 2012
12:33 pm
“She is a Ron Paul supporter. So it is not like she finally saw the light”.
Agreed. But it’s no longer a vote in the Romney column.
Jefferson
September 17th, 2012
12:35 pm
We didn’t have a spending problems until we cut taxes. Corp taxes should also be higher along with income taxes.
The GOP thinks everything is free.
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:35 pm
“For the past generation, conservatives have.”
Family values, contract with America, God in the platform, blah, blah, blah.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:35 pm
ADAM,
Another broken promise which seemed to suggest a more robust level of transparency than with other bills….didn’t happen…
Contrary to every one in my business (all of us would lose), I favor single payor….which will also cost trillions but at least this lobbyist laiden crap bill that attempts to make everyone happy at the expense of phycians and all of us who need healthcare while catering to insurers (they love the opportunity to increase premiums…make no mistake) is flawed to no end.
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
September 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
Sagegirl, the net result is expected to be a vote in the Romney column as The Party will certainly appoint a new delegate who will drink the cool-aid.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
He spoke about his charitable acts.
Did he ever promote his religion or put another’s down?
Which convention was it again that had a vote directly relating to Religion/God during their convention.
Romney says he is Morman but does not make that a focus of his campaign or speeches.
President Obama mentions being Christian many times, yet you don’t make fun of him for that.
I’ve never seen you question Obama and his belief in Heaven the way you attempted to ridicule Romney for planet Kolob?
How many times did you ask where Heaven is the way you did Kolob?
Why did you single out only one candidates religion?
Seems you don’t mind religion in your politics at all, as long as you can decide which religion, when and how it is brought up huh?
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
12:38 pm
Jay:
Nice duck Jay. When you don’t know the issue its best to keep your mouth shut..
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:38 pm
JAMVET,
So I hear you agreeing the raising another 2% revenue on the 1%er’s is simply political and idealogical as opposed to materially useful?
How exactly do we know that any tax increase will actually go to deficit anyhow…
BRO,
So you suggests we continue to throw good money after bad? We both know this 2% will simple get wasted and not go to solve anything….except justify further spending…
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
12:38 pm
the snide slam on Romney’s religious is completely unnecessary and demeans you and the argument that you attempt to make.
All right Jay….I’ll pray for you.
RB from Gwinnett
September 17th, 2012
12:39 pm
Paul, this class warfare business is not healthy for ALL of us. Until all of us have a stake in how our government spends our money, some will continue to be disinterested and uninvolved. Not good.
I’d support an across the board hike with no lower limit. This 0% business needs to end.
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:40 pm
Marty,
I asked where it is because I did not know.
Do you?
Jay
September 17th, 2012
12:41 pm
Don wrote the following:
“Just to clarify, the $100,000 is for single taxpayers. For married couples, it would be $200,000 which isn’t far from the Obama dividing line of $250,000.”
Just to clarify, Don is incorrect. The figures used are per “tax unit,” and a married couple filing jointly is considered one “tax unit.” In other words, married couples making $100,000 jointly would not be considered middle class by Feldstein.
Frederick Douglass
September 17th, 2012
12:41 pm
Well it seems like with Romney we’ve finally got ourselves a candidate that’s experienced at running something…….like his mouth, and companies in the ground for personal gain.
hitch
September 17th, 2012
12:42 pm
Think he’ll want to classify carried interest, which is how people like Romney get to classify their incomes, as earned income? Then it would be taxed at regular income tax rates, not the current 15% rate used for dividends and long term capital gains. I doubt it, as that might require the rich to sacrifice a third vacation home.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
So you suggests we continue to throw good money after bad?
No, I suggest we quit electing the same jackasses and expecting different results. There are basically two choices. Keep electing the same people and accept that we’ll get the same results. Or, we can elect new people, and not simply replacement clones, and try to do something different.
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
“President Obama mentions being Christian many times, yet you don’t make fun of him for that.”
I make fun of the cons that call him Muslim.
Did you call them out or said nothing?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
GETALIFE,
God should be distanced as far away as possible from government…it’s a big problem and skews practical thought..
Here’s something that will get the ire of all LIBS…I was at cheerleading competition at Mill Creek High Saturday and you wouldn’t believe the quote plastered prominently on the wall…
“Whatever their future, at the dawn of their lives, men seek a noble vision of man’s nature and of life’s potential.”
How funny is that?
Lord Help Us
September 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
For years the cons have howled about the ‘47% of people who pay no taxes at all!’
Do any cons on here know if Romney’s plan ‘fixes’ this ‘problem?’
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
September 17th, 2012
12:44 pm
“This 0% business needs to end.” – RB @ 12:39
*********************
One place to start would be for businesses sitting on Billions in cash (as detailed in the AJC.com) to hire some people and pay a living wage. Everybody wins.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
12:44 pm
Stevie Ray
Without getting too much into the weeds on this, my view is insurance costs are going up, period. No matter if we have reform or not. Controlling those costs will be an ongoing process. We have a track record of what increases have been. We also tend to take a tube view of costs when we focus, say on insurance premiums and not include how uninsured are paid for (in Texas there’s pretty much agreement it’s about $1500 a year on a family’s policy).
So while costs may increase in some areas, I have to think it’s not all attributable to ACA as costs were increasing already. We’ll have to see what effect ACA has. We already have a record in some areas – such as the over $1 billion in policy rebates insurers had to give because they spent too much on themselves and not enough on patient care.
http://www.aarp.org/health/health-insurance/info-08-2012/health-insurance-rebates-affordable-care-act.html
barking frog
September 17th, 2012
12:45 pm
Aquagirl
Even if a candidate is a
member of a religious cult
that convinces its members
to drink poison, that should
not be mentioned as it is a
violation of the constitutional restriction
on free speech that disallows bigotry.
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
12:45 pm
“Or, we can elect new people, and not simply replacement clones, and try to do something different”
There’s only one problem with that: who will persuade those “not simply replacement clones” to run in the first place? If they don’t run they can’t be elected.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
12:46 pm
Here’s something that will get the ire of all LIBS…
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:46 pm
JAY,
Seems to me that the middle class definition should be broken out into lower middle, middle and high middle.. a material difference may be identified that would change all this idealogical BS..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 17th, 2012
12:47 pm
Bropheus, I am all for electing people who work for the people. The problem will be that we have to vote for the candidates that get through the process. The problem is not just voting the same people but the entire process of financing campaigns and selecting those who run. Just “vote ‘em out of office” results in the results of 2010 that brought in so many TP members rather than those who will work for the common good. An Elizabeth Warren would never have a chance in Georgia.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:47 pm
KAMCHAK,
Do you know who penned that particular diddy?
AngryRedMarsWoman
September 17th, 2012
12:47 pm
The tax code needs to be rewritten to eliminate every deduction except for other income-based taxes paid…for everyone. The tax code should not be used to manipulate society. Want a house? Buy one, but don’t ask your fellow citizens/taxpayers to subsidize your decision. Want to donate to your church or other favorite charity? Great, but the nation shouldn’t pick up a portion of your generosity for you. Send your kids to daycare…or don’t….there should be no difference between the two when it comes to filing/paying your taxes. I only keep the other income-based taxes deduction because the taxing authorities keep going back to “dollar one” when figuring taxes — if Social Security, the IRS, state revenue, etc. could all get in line and each take its share from what is left after those ahead have taken theirs we could eliminate that too. Simplify and enforce ruthlessly….and we could all enjoy lower tax rates. According to my latest stub, I have paid 28% of my wages to the IRS – that is federal income taxes alone for married with one child. I will undoubtedly have to pay more when tax time rolls around (I always do), so I figure in the end it will be somewhere around 30-33% this year. Add in state and social security, and I get to settle in right around 40%. Go ahead and eliminate deductions – I haven’t really seen them in over a decade anyway. Whatever.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 17th, 2012
12:48 pm
I was at cheerleading competition at Mill Creek High Saturday
This one time at band camp….
Is this confirmation of age?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:49 pm
KAMCHAK/GETALIFE..
AYN RAND…tee hee
JKL2
September 17th, 2012
12:49 pm
Jay- Romney has since seized upon the Feldstein study as confirmation that his plan — vague as it is — holds together mathematically.
Thanks again for condemning something you admit you know little about.
As the Democrats like to point out, we have a tax problem not a spending problem. If taxing the evil rich at 100% will not balance our budget, guess who else is going to have to pick up the slack to perpetuate your entitlement society?
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
12:49 pm
So I hear you agreeing the raising another 2% revenue on the 1%er’s is simply political and idealogical (sic) as opposed to materially useful?
You hear what you want.
But you are not listening to me. To wit, I have no idea where you came up with that 2% figure.
You must have missed this in my last post … them paying a MUCH higher effective tax rate than you do on their MUCH higher wealth.
Many do, of course.
Many do not.
NO more freeloading by millionaires and billionaires.
No more hiding money overseas, Mr. Romney.
No more socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
12:50 pm
Do you know who penned that particular diddy?
Yes.
This has been another episode of one word answers to a simple question.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:50 pm
KEEP,
Good one!
My 13 year old…I was bestowed with 3 girls…what can i do?
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
If taxing the evil rich at 100% will not balance our budget…
That nonsense was already addressed in my 12:23.
Quit parroting it…
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
12:52 pm
Doggone
At this point, I don’t think the non-clones could be bribed into running. I think it would have to take something, such as unseating a popular but partisaned office holder to get the ball rolling. Another thing that might help would be to do away with drawing congressional districts to heavily favor one party over another. I think that if all districts were drawn to be as evenly divided as possible, that would lower the potential for a politician to embrace the extremes for fear of losing their seat.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:52 pm
JAMVET
Very simple math..
Annual revenue is $3.8 trillion…multiply 80 billion into that number and you get 2%..
Over 10 years, $38 trillion and $800 billion..
saywhat?
September 17th, 2012
12:52 pm
Don
September 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
Just to clarify, the $100,000 is for single taxpayers. For married couples, it would be $200,000 which isn’t far from the Obama dividing line of $250,000.
_______________________________________________
Try again. The report says “per household”, not per taxpayer.
I remember the right-wing mocking of Obama when his tax proposal implied that those making more than $250,000 per year were “rich”. Now that Romney has lowered it to $100,000, we have silence from the right, when they should be going apoplectic. Hypocrisy much?
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
12:52 pm
that should
not be mentioned as it is a
violation of the constitutional restriction
on free speech that disallows bigotry.
Yes, I’ve noticed saying “crazy stuff looks crazy” is not well received.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
12:53 pm
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:40 pm
Do you know where Heaven is?
Why you didn’t ask about that?
If you know can you tell us all?
You also discussed Temple Garments but that is not what you called them you chose magic underwear, a derogatory term to describe the Temple Garments.
A quick google search would have given you the answer to both of your “questions” by the way.
Odd how bigots always rationalize their discriminatory statements as questions or as fact..
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:53 pm
KAMCHAK,
I don’t understand what you mean about 1 word answer..
AYN RAND had a first and last name..
Jay
September 17th, 2012
12:56 pm
“Jay, speaking of new taxes, my health insurance cost will increase by a little over a thousand dollars in the coming year. That’s a real world consequence directly coming from your president via your vote. Emotion doesn’t make for good policy.”
Emotion doesn’t make for good policy, straitroad. You’re right. And it’s pure emotion driving your claim that ObamaCare is responsible for that rate increase.
The only reason that ObamaCare passed in the first place was because health insurance rates were already soaring high and had been doing so for more than a decade, long before anybody had even heard the name “Barack Obama”.
As the Kaiser Family Foundation reported last week, health insurance premiums rose by 4 percent in 2012, which the foundation report notes is higher than inflation but “moderate by historical standards.” It points out that “Since 2002, premiums have increased 97 percent, three times as fast as wages (33 percent) and inflation (28 percent).”
http://www.kff.org/insurance/ehbs091112nr.cfm
ObamaCare had nothing to do with any of that.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 17th, 2012
12:57 pm
Well, when Bookman spelled out the words Tax Increase I all of a sudden got the chills and thought about putting on a jacket. Where’s Grover? Where are you, Grover? We need you.
Anyway, things were just fine before this country elected that Socialist Muslim Kenyan. Why can’t we just undo that and go back to the way things was? We can stop talking about taxes and take all this spending off of the books and the budget will be balanced.
Anyhow, I don’t have a mortage and I don’t make enough to deduct the few dimes I put into the collection plate down at the Church of Holiness. I got that E-thing that my accountant Bubba puts on my tax return every year on account of little Nathan Zell George and I get back about 5,000 more than they take out. I say let’s leave things the way they are.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
12:58 pm
Jay’s “Also, I see that while I was putting this piece together, Joseph was getting a might righteous about charter schools below, suggesting that I was ducking him. For those interested, he now has the answer that he thought he wanted.”
is so worth reading. Nice example of how to actually think about and assess what one is reading.
RB from Gwinnett 12L39
Much thanks for the reasonable response.
I do think some are too poor to pay taxes. I also see merit in the idea of not making it less attractive to work by taking too large a bite out of the working poor.
But that’s really small potatoes on the revenue side. If we want things to be more equal, we’d stop taxing income from working at three times the rate of making money by owning resources.
Boris Badnoff
September 17th, 2012
12:58 pm
If all of this violence in the Middle East has been caused by a You Tube Video, shouldn’t the person who should be punished is Al Gore for inventing the internet?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
12:59 pm
JAMVET,
http://questioningwithboldness.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/tax-the-rich-tax-em-at-100-that-still-leaves-u-s-with-839b-deficit/
And this is assuming that the money actually goes to the deficit instead of further huge shortcomings in Medicare, Medicaid and SS etcetera…not to mention the bogus HC bill which will cost trillions..
I guess you are suggesting that we tax 100% for 6.5 years…not possible but the concept is not relevant..
They BOTH suck
September 17th, 2012
1:00 pm
Side Topic:
Herman Cain on Boortz a few minutes ago.
Boortz is ripping Romney for being an awful campaigner and doing a piss poor messaging job.
Cain chimes in “While I support Romney, his Melba toast messaging is not cutting it. He must get tougher or it will be difficult for him to win”
His allies know that the window of opportunity, while not closed, is getting short.
Now back to your regular programming.
RB from Gwinnett
September 17th, 2012
1:00 pm
Jammie, “It has everything to do with ending welfare for the wealthy and implementing economic justice in this country. ”
Yea, jammie, cause’ “justice” in your warped little mind means some pay 39% while 47% of the people pay NOTHING.
Next time you’re out with friends and you “split” the bill, try having somebody in your group pay 80% of the tab, you chip in a dollar, etc, and see how many more times “WE” go out to dinner. Then you can try telling them how that’s “justice” being served.
Tool.
barking frog
September 17th, 2012
1:00 pm
How many taxation theories
are the Republicans capable
of producing that lowers
taxes on the rich ?
John Birch
September 17th, 2012
1:01 pm
“used to finance additional large tax cuts for the truly rich” Okay, this is a little liberal spin. Technically, taxes are a soure of revenue and, as such, could not “finance” a tax cut for the rich. Accounting 101 says all ot the revenue sources go to finance all of the outlays and the difference is the deficit or surplus.
However, reducing tax rates, especially for the rich, is appalling. At a minimum, capital gains and dividends need to be taxed as regular income to eliminate the regressive nature of the tax code.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
1:01 pm
AngryMarsRedWoman
“The tax code needs to be rewritten to eliminate every deduction except for other income-based taxes paid…for everyone.”
Just asking a question, but why, if I choose to live in a state with low taxes and low services, should I be forced to subsidize those who live in states with high taxes and a high level of services?
rightwing troll
September 17th, 2012
1:01 pm
Has the war on Christmas started yet?
Every year it seems to start a little earlier… I don’t want it to sneak up on me like it did last year.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
1:01 pm
getalife
September 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
I didn’t ask you to comment on all acts of bigotry or racism.
You interjected into the comments to another poster about what they said.
I as of yet have not mentioned anything to anyone who has called Obama a Muslim, usually because there are already more than enough comments offering evidence to the contrary.
I feel the same way about those who attempt to put down one religions opposed to another.
People questioning Obama’s personal religion is also far different to me than insulting an entire religion.
You brag about making fun of cons who call Obama Muslim, but you remain silent when an entire religion therefore a large amount of people are made fun of.
Oh no my bad you don’t remain silent you start throwing out your own personal lines of bigotry.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
1:01 pm
I don’t understand what you mean about 1 word answer..
Well, let us get into the wayback machine and visit your original post, shall we?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…
September 17th, 2012
12:47 pm
KAMCHAK,
Do you know who penned that particular diddy?
You asked me if I knew, and I answered you. Note that you did not ask me who that individual was.
What part of that seems to be giving you the most trouble?
If you are seeking a different answer, perhaps you should ask different questions.
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
1:02 pm
Dang you fruits gotta hate that. Obama administration lied when they said it was spontaneous protests in Libya… Wow Oblama looks like a dunce on this issue….
Billybob
September 17th, 2012
1:04 pm
jay,
has obama raised taxes on the middle class?
rightwing troll
September 17th, 2012
1:04 pm
“Wow Oblama looks like a dunce on this issue….”
Yet he still manages to outshine Mittens on this one…
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:04 pm
I guess you are suggesting that we tax 100% for 6.5 years…
Quit guessing, it only makes you look foolish.
And intransigent.
One more time, making the super-wealthy pay their fair share – across the board, no exceptions – is not but a small part of the way to solve the beyond massive deficit problem.
If you want, I can write that four more times, so you finally grok it…
Eliminating gargantuan corporate welfare, massively decreasing the corrupt, bloated DoD budget – now there are two sure fired ways to make a big dent in it…
They BOTH suck
September 17th, 2012
1:04 pm
Anyone who basically regurgitates talking points on a regular basis, probably needs to refrain from calling other bloggers “tools”.
Just saying
AngryRedMarsWoman
September 17th, 2012
1:05 pm
“Just asking a question, but why, if I choose to live in a state with low taxes and low services, should I be forced to subsidize those who live in states with high taxes and a high level of services?”
Good point. The best solution is to get the taxing authorities to stand in line. Social Security first – 7.5% of $100. Feds next with X% of $92.50. State next with Y% of what is left after the feds get theirs, etc.
saywhat?
September 17th, 2012
1:05 pm
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
1:02 pm
Dang you fruits gotta hate that. Obama administration lied when they said it was spontaneous protests in Libya… Wow Oblama looks like a dunce on this issue…
___________________________________________________________
No, he’ll only look like a dunce if in response, he invades North Korea.
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
1:05 pm
“I think that if all districts were drawn to be as evenly divided as possible, that would lower the potential for a politician to embrace the extremes for fear of losing their seat”
Yes, I’ve said that too. The districts should be drawn mathematically, not politically.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
1:05 pm
Cain chimes in “While I support Romney, his Melba toast messaging is not cutting it. He must get tougher or it will be difficult for him to win”
So, is Melba toast the high end version of milquetoast or being a soup sandwich?
Goldie
September 17th, 2012
1:05 pm
OK, I’ve yet to see any Cons here post the reason why Mitt wants to be President so bad — I mean, other than making his millionaire buddies and himself even wealthier than they already are… is it because he’s now “pro-fetus”? Really, are you sure???
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
1:05 pm
Dang gas prices keep rising because of a movie…
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
1:07 pm
JAY,
Guess opinions vary…also remember that rate increases approved by states do not contemplate the cost of increased deductibles of those employers sponsored plans that are self insured….
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/08/09/medicare-actuary-obamacare-will-triple-the-growth-rate-of-net-insurance-costs/
barking frog
September 17th, 2012
1:07 pm
Boris Badnoff
September 17th, 2012
12:58 pm
If all of this violence in the
Middle East has been caused
by a You Tube Video,
shouldn’t the person who
should be punished is Al
Gore for inventing the
internet?
…….
Shouldn’t it be Google for
failing to use their censor
button which they have now
used.
Jay
September 17th, 2012
1:08 pm
No billybob. Obama has cut taxes on the middle class.
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:08 pm
Has the war on Christmas started yet?
It must be getting close!
And don’t forget to put the X back in Xmas.
They BOTH suck
September 17th, 2012
1:09 pm
Bro
Melba toast is very dry, so on the opposite end of a soap sandwich.
With that said, he better get some attraction because either one is going to get him the same result.
DawgDad
September 17th, 2012
1:09 pm
This election isn’t about plans, it’s about direction. You’re dealing in hypotheticals, Jay.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
1:09 pm
RB from Gwinnett 1:00
Rule of Thumb: when you lead with making fun of a blogger’s name, you’ve ceded the rationality of your argument.
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
1:09 pm
“And don’t forget to put the X back in Xmas”
Christopher Columbus signature as “Xtopher”
Mick
September 17th, 2012
1:10 pm
paul
Hey, if you responded this morning, I missed it – do you still have my contact info?
Billybob
September 17th, 2012
1:10 pm
thanks for the fiction update jay……..just curious, is obamacare a tax?
Jay
September 17th, 2012
1:10 pm
“kay, this is a little liberal spin. Technically, taxes are a source of revenue and, as such, could not “finance” a tax cut for the rich. Accounting 101 says all ot the revenue sources go to finance all of the outlays and the difference is the deficit or surplus.
You are incorrect, Mr. Birch. Given Romney’s promise that his tax plan would be revenue neutral, lower taxes on the rich would have to be offset by higher taxes on someone else, correct? And as Feldstein has helpfully pointed out, that “someone else” would be the upper middle class.
Jay
September 17th, 2012
1:12 pm
As to this:
“At a minimum, capital gains and dividends need to be taxed as regular income to eliminate the regressive nature of the tax code.”
Romney refuses to rule out cutting or eliminating the mortgage deduction, charitable deduction, etc. But he has made it VERY clear that he will not touch the differential between earned and unearned income.
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
1:12 pm
some pay 39% while 47% of the people pay NOTHING.
Those people paying “nothing” subsidize your school system by $43 million per year.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/poor-schools-still-get-the-short-end-1/nQWZk/
You’re welcome, enjoy your low property taxes while you complain about the takers.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
1:13 pm
Enter your comments here
DawgDad
September 17th, 2012
1:14 pm
“Given Romney’s promise that his tax plan would be revenue neutral, lower taxes on the rich would have to be offset by higher taxes on someone else, correct? ”
Uh, in a word, NO.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
1:15 pm
Joseph
“Obama administration lied when they said it was spontaneous protests in Libya… Wow Oblama looks like a dunce on this issue….”
What’s your source for saying that at the time the administration was speaking of spontaneous protests it had verified knowledge that the protests were not spontaneous?
Should be an easy question to answer.
But…. if you can’t, guess who’s the one lying, hmmmmmm?
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
1:15 pm
Romney refuses to rule out cutting or eliminating the mortgage deduction, charitable deduction, etc. But he has made it VERY clear that he will not touch the differential between earned and unearned income.
Because he’s the pure mouthpiece of CAPITAL – pure and simple.
Think about it: we tax labor PUNITIVELY, while increasingly refuse to tax capital at all.
We’re heading for neo-feudalism.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
1:15 pm
JAMVET,
If I misunderstood you I apologize…Anyhow I couldn’t disagree more on corporate tax increases at this time….I couldn’t agree more on cutting our DoD budget by anything less than 25%..too bad both parties are so betrothen to defense contractors it will never happen…IMO we should bring home 100% of our soldiers and take 10 years off of protecting anything but our shores while we clean up our own back yard…the feds have proven since Korea to current that they are quick to risk our lives for purposes not remotely connected to our security….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
1:15 pm
…while 47% of the people pay NOTHING.
I believe that you should google federal excise taxes.
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:16 pm
Doggone, that is why my joke is on them.
There is a common misconception that the word Xmas is a secular attempt to remove the religious tradition from Christmas by taking the “Christ” out of “Christmas”.
The labarum, often called the Chi-Rho, is a Christian symbol representing Christ.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Xmas-LHJ-Dec-1922-Coles_Phillips.jpg/482px-Xmas-LHJ-Dec-1922-Coles_Phillips.jpg
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:17 pm
Here’s a better one…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PostcardIBringYouAMerryXmas1910.jpg
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
1:17 pm
meanwhile, Rick the meddycare fraud genius Scott, has spent $38,000
per purged voter in a futile attempt to sway the election toward the cons,
who won’t be able to win it straight up.
Also, they’re encouraging smaller places to utilize churches as voting
stations, where law enforcement has offered ‘free securty’ surrounding
the polling places with yellow tape and cop cars. No intent there, huh?
squeal pig, squeal
Paul
September 17th, 2012
1:17 pm
Mick
I don’t. I emailed Jay and asked him to forward you my email address.
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
1:18 pm
One more thing:
Romney doesn’t give a DAMN about middle-class entitlements like the mortgage deduction and similar. He might or might not stick up for it, it all depends on the political winds.
But you can be damn sure he cares about continuing the steady lowering of taxes on capital.
Like a zombie cares about live flesh.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
1:19 pm
Paul,
Not sure what Joseph said but what we are hearing from Libyan sources is that beyond the fact that this was a precision military operation, happened on 911 etcetera Ms Rice, the WH et al definitely issued their silly statement as prematurely as Romney..
barking frog
September 17th, 2012
1:19 pm
JamVet
The X is a cross leaning.
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
1:19 pm
Jay:
Oh you mean by taxing tobacco, tanning beds, and medical devices… That tax cut????
Paul
September 17th, 2012
1:20 pm
DawgDad
“Uh, in a word, NO.”
New here? You’re supposed to follow with “and this is why my answer is ‘no’” followed by some reasons.
You do know what reasons are?
Regnad Kcin
September 17th, 2012
1:21 pm
“As the Democrats like to point out, we have a tax problem not a spending problem.”
Link, please?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
1:21 pm
KAMCHAK,
C’mon now you have to admit that a public school featuring a prominent Ayn Rand quote has got to raise the ire of liberals…to me it’s a good quote but the source is ironic…at least its better than having christianity related quotes and prayers..
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
1:22 pm
I’m glad Jay got that forceful memo… Romney is about to release a sensible plan for taxes, immigration, and foreign policy so Oblama orders his mindless followers to go ahead and start damage control…
RB from Gwinnett
September 17th, 2012
1:22 pm
East Cobb, “One place to start would be for businesses sitting on Billions in cash (as detailed in the AJC.com) to hire some people and pay a living wage. Everybody wins.”
The same could be accomplished if you and all your liberal friends would empty your bank accounts and max your credit cards buying things you don’t need. If you’re not willing to do that, why would you expect these companies to do essentially the same thing?
If any of them are like me with my business, I’m waiting on the sidelines to see what happens with this election and Obamacare. Here’s a good read for you to understand the reality business owners are faced with. http://washingtonexaminer.com/franchisors-warn-obamacare-will-halve-profits/article/2507920
Notice the part where it says those plans cost $5K per employee. If you want to see the economy go in the toilet, wait until the 30 employees this guy has are required to go from paying their $999 share of their insurance to buying a private plan for $5000. That’s not going to be pretty, but you liberals demanded it, so don’t complain when you get what you asked for.
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:22 pm
I couldn’t agree more on cutting our DoD budget by anything less than 25%.
I was think 30% but I’d take 25%!
As a conservative” (LOL!) I advocate that we return to the corporate tax rates of the 1950s:
GE paid no taxes; Goldman Sachs paid $14 million last year. The GAO reported in 2008 that “two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005.”
Companies have become all too astute at paying for loopholes which allow them to shift profits abroad, or move their gains (on paper) to foreign low-tax/no-tax nations.
Corporate Taxes as a Percentage of Federal Revenue
1955 . . . 27.3%
2010 . . . 8.9%
Corporate Taxes as a Percentage of GDP
1955 . . . 4.3%
2010 . . . 1.3%
Individual Income/Payrolls as a Percentage of Federal Revenue
1955 . . . 58.0%
2010 . . . 81.5%
Anyone who is serious about closing the US deficit should consider the changes in what corporations pay in taxes and the rise of the deficit.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
1:23 pm
Stevie Ray
Your position is no administration should say anything, even when an ambassador has been killed, until they have verified all the reasons why the demonstrations occurred?!!?
Billybob
September 17th, 2012
1:23 pm
it’s amazing to see how radical the new democratic party minds on this blog are……coincidentally that is the reason why obama and people like those here are destroying their democratic party and is the reason on nov 7th the republicans will own the house, senate, and the white house……keep pumping the fiction like obama hasn’t raised taxes on everyone jay…..jay meet osterich
Peter
September 17th, 2012
1:23 pm
The great Republican Lie !!!!!!!!! Well one of many !
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-cuts-rich-dont-spur-151649273.html
Skeptic
September 17th, 2012
1:23 pm
Backroom “Con”vo:
Ok we must first redefine what constitutes as rape.
Yeah gotcha then we must redefine the middle-class.
Yup that way they won’t know what is happening to who when we royally rape the middle-class.
Jack
September 17th, 2012
1:24 pm
“..the truly rich” are going to pay a 3.8% Medicare surtax for 2012. That really doesn’t sound like an “additional large tax cut for the truly rich”.
Paul
September 17th, 2012
1:24 pm
“I was think 30% but I’d take 25%!”
Compromise. Proof positive JamVet is not, in any way, shape or form, in any known universe or by any definition of the term
a “conservative.”
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
1:26 pm
JAY,
Isn’t the primary reason Obama “reduced taxes” is due to the payroll tax elimination? Welcome now but once again, he is kicking increasing SS and Medicare exposure for our kids down the road wouldn’t you say?
liberal hack
September 17th, 2012
1:26 pm
JamVet, raising the taxes on the mega wealthy and cutting the bloated DoD budget isn’t going to make the dent you envision. That my friend is a very ignorant statement. You should talk to Jay who says more needs to be done….
I have to ask this question, since when is 250,000 rich? Ask someone who lives in New York, Colorado, California, Boston, Chicago if 250,000 is rich. You are out of your blasted mind if you think it’s so. Liberals may have an argument if they said raise taxes on those who actually earn 1,000,000 dollars, I could buy into that argument. I’m might be okay on raising the capital gains tax as long as you base it on how much they have invested, a couple who has 500,000 saved up for retirement isn’t the same as someone who has millions in IRA’s and other investments……
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
1:26 pm
C’mon now you have to admit that…
Who exactly, granted you the authority to identify what it is that I “have to” do?
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:26 pm
frog, yep.
Personally other than the sentimental, historical values, I have virtually no interest in that bizarre holiday where the baby Jesus and Saint Nick are conflated into a narcissistic orgy of credit card binges and faux piety!
Yet, some of the songs are kinda cool and I like stories about figgy pudding!
RB from Gwinnett
September 17th, 2012
1:26 pm
Aquagirl, “You’re welcome, enjoy your low property taxes while you complain about the takers.”
I’ll pay nearly $13,000 in property taxes this year for the 2 properties I own. I realize that seems like “low taxes” to you, but to me, that sounds like a hell of a lot of money.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
1:28 pm
PAUL,
I’m saying that the administration..or any adminitration should assign blame to their favor until the dust settles…just like Romney should have done…the denials by Rice and that idiot WH spokesman will come back to haunt…it was similar to the press taking liberty with conclusions not based in fact.
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
1:30 pm
“..a Penalty shall not be considered a Tax, but entered as an Expense..”
–USGAAP Jefferson
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
1:30 pm
KAMCHAK,
Chippy…let me rephrase…I bet a vast majority of Liberals would condemn use of an Ayn Rand quote in a public school same as the those commandment thingies?
There exists many pharmacuetical solutions that may benefit your general tone…
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
1:30 pm
“Doggone, that is why my joke is on them”
Yup! and even when you educate them on the genesis of that symbol, they STILL reject it!
getalife
September 17th, 2012
1:32 pm
I will not vote to raise taxes on the middle class 2000 a year.
Nope.
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
1:32 pm
C’mon now you have to admit that a public school featuring a prominent Ayn Rand quote has got to raise the ire of liberals…
Why would liberals object? The local Christians seem to accept a hardcore atheist’s words plastered in front of impressionable young eyeballs.
Or possibly nobody ever reads crap plastered on the walls except you.
Tundra Dude
September 17th, 2012
1:33 pm
Martin Feldstein, a conservative Harvard economist, served as chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Reagan.
Would this be one of those Econ Wizards who helped Triple the national debt?
They had to raise the debt ceiling _18_ times, but they got the job done!!
“The two parties are in a race to the fiscal bottom to see which one can bury our children and grandchildren deeper in debt”
~David Stockman (Reagan’s 1st budget director)
Regnad Kcin
September 17th, 2012
1:35 pm
““I was think 30% but I’d take 25%!”
Compromise. Proof positive JamVet is not, in any way, shape or form, in any known universe or by any definition of the term
a “conservative.””
So true – see how he compromised, there?
retiredds
September 17th, 2012
1:35 pm
The new hoax: revenue-neutral. When, where, how?
Lord Help Us
September 17th, 2012
1:36 pm
Does Romney’s plan solve the ‘problem’ cons have with 47% of people paying no income taxes?
Given the rage over this issue, I am surprised they seem to be giving him a pass…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
1:36 pm
I bet a vast majority of Liberals would condemn use of an Ayn Rand quote in a public school same as the those commandment thingies?
Why did you place a question mark on what is a declarative statement?
Or do you really question whether you would place such a bet?
There exists many 8th grade level English textbooks that may benefit your general deficiencies…
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:37 pm
JamVet, raising the taxes on the mega wealthy and cutting the bloated DoD budget isn’t going to make the dent you envision. That my friend is a very ignorant statement. You should talk to Jay who says more needs to be done….
The two recommendations I made were ending corporate welfare ($125,000,000,000.00 annually), and shearing approximately a quarter of trillion dollars every year from the pentagon.
$500B out of $1.3T is 38%.
A “big dent”.
But your persuasive use of numbers, facts and details rather than unsubstantiated/ignorant opinions, is noted…
Joseph
September 17th, 2012
1:38 pm
Paul:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/17/obama-administration-libyan-president-clash-over-explanation-on-consulate/
Tealiban Party
September 17th, 2012
1:39 pm
Interesting read by Matt Taibbi in a recent issue of Rolling Stone. He makes the case that Mitt Romney and Bain made fortunes by saddling the companies taken over by Bain with inordinate amounts of debt.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829
Morality?
September 17th, 2012
1:39 pm
High court to challenge Alabama law “segregating” HIV carriers from other inmates. Jeezzzzzzzzz. Where does the P.C. end? It’s not “segregation” – it’s a quarantine…… bumbling idiots abound in the court system and the gub’ment.
Morality?
September 17th, 2012
1:44 pm
The national debt has gone from $10,000,000,000 to $16,000,000,000 + in the four short years since Obama installed his “spend your way out of debt” philosophy. How is that working for us? Obama’s idea of a gub’ment created job is moving someone from the unemployment rolls to disability. Voila! Another Obama gub’ment created job!
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
1:44 pm
“It’s not “segregation” – it’s a quarantine”
except there’s no valid reason to “quarantine” HIV carriers. It is not an airborn disease. All the inmates have to do is refrain from kissing them or having sex with them…and that’s the end of the perceived “problem”
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
1:46 pm
his money needs a passport to get back in the US, his boat sails
under the flag of the Caymans, and he won’t show his taxes that
he wouldn’t pay.
Really, this is the best you could do, cons?
soul search or you won’t have a party in five years, cons.
On second thought, just keep doin’ what you’re doin’ heheh
Erwin's cat
September 17th, 2012
1:47 pm
Tealiban
Matt Taibbi….the Matt Taibbi that wrote:
“The 52 Funniest Things About The Upcoming Death of The Pope” and covered the 2008 presidential campaign for Real Time with Bill Maher?
I’m sure it is an unbiased article on Mitt and Bain
Morality?
September 17th, 2012
1:47 pm
$125 TRILLION in corporate annual welfare……… really? Your imagination is only outweighed by your B.S.
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
1:49 pm
except there’s no valid reason to “quarantine” HIV carriers.
It’s Alabama. Lack of a valid reason never slows them down.
kayaker 71
September 17th, 2012
1:49 pm
So, it appears that, because both Bozo and the Republican Congress have no balls, in a couple of weeks, there will begin a 100B cut/yr for the next 12 years for the military budget. For you numbers impaired liberals, that’s 1.2T of military cuts….. right at a time when the natives are getting restless in 21 or so Muslim countries about, what the liberals say, some movie. Can’t be Bozo’s mention, again 21 times during the DNC of the fact that he “got” OBL. Those posters that they are burning, mostly with Bozo looking like Alfred E Newman with a missing front tooth…. they have no real significance either. Most of those misunderstood sons of Allah seem to be more pissed off about Bozo than about some movie that only about 12 or so people have seen in its entirety. While Hillary and Bozo stand side by side, extolling the virtues of those killed in this mess, Sudan issues an edict that Marines guarding the embassy there will not be allowed to have live ammo in their weapons. This whole dog and pony show just gets more bizarre by the hour. Foreign policy expertise?
Ray
September 17th, 2012
1:49 pm
Look at your itemized deductions, and personal deductions, are they more than 20% of your total income? If so you are going to be screwed under Romney’s plan. Itemized deductions, plus personal deductions often shelters 30 to 50% of a family’s income, if they own a home, have medical cost, and are charitable people. The less your gross income is with regard to your deductions, the harder the hit will be on the “New Romney middle class”. It is all about lowering the tax rates for those at the top. The truly rich don’t NEED mortgages to own homes, and if Paul Ryan’s “generosity” to the Catholic Church is any sign of how the “new young rich”, will contribute to worthy causes, the poor will have no safety nets, public or private, in the bleak new Romney Ryan world.
Morality?
September 17th, 2012
1:50 pm
Sorry – not enough zeros …. let’s try again Obama went from $10,000,000,000,000 to $16,000,000,000,000 + in 4 short years – that’s $6 trillion in 4 years. Them Dems sure know how to throw it down the rat hole.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
September 17th, 2012
1:52 pm
Off topic, but so what. This is an interesting and somewhat funny read…depending on whose side you are on. It’s factual though…
http://www.thenation.com/blog/169963/gops-self-mutilating-panic
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
1:52 pm
“let’s try again Obama went from $10,000,000,000,000 to $16,000,000,000,000 + in 4 short years ”
Please explain how he did that all by himself, without the collusion of Congress
Goldie
September 17th, 2012
1:53 pm
And I also want to know, when will Reagan’s VooDoo Economics start to kick in for America’s middle-class?
Anyone?
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:54 pm
Missing morality,
Don’t be stupid.
Or do.
But either way, you have never read the very first thing on the topic, but act as if you are knowledgeable.
Too funny…
Lord Help Us
September 17th, 2012
1:55 pm
‘And I also want to know, when will Reagan’s VooDoo Economics start to kick in for America’s middle-class?’
Given the timeline…about 12 years before jobs are created by the millions due to GWB’s tax cuts…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
1:55 pm
And I also want to know, when will Reagan’s VooDoo Economics start to kick in for America’s middle-class?
It’s only been 32 years. These things take time, donchaknow?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 17th, 2012
1:57 pm
Well Doggone, I am surprised you don’t know. Much like Nathan in the Jerk, Obama writes every check. And of course on Jan 21, 2009, all Obama had to do was say to everyone in Afghanistan and Iraq, get on an airplane and come on home. Of course the equipment comes home magically and airplanes are free. So if Obama spent any money there, it was his choice.
Also we know that supporting all those Govt buildings, the national parks and other programs could just have been stopped on 1.21.2009, so again Obama’s fault that money got spent.
See its simple. Want a bumper sticker.
Lord Help Us
September 17th, 2012
2:00 pm
‘Want a bumper sticker.’
Speaking of bumper stickers, I saw the first ‘Mitt’ sticker in my hard-core con neck of the woods today.
Ironically, I also saw a ‘Miss me yet’ bumper sticker with GWB’s pic today…
Oh, the irony…
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
2:01 pm
Color me embarrassed.
Meat is right.
Three too many zeroes.
LOL at me!
So redacting my numbers, it is $375,125,000,000.00.
Mea culpa to liberal hack…
Jay
September 17th, 2012
2:01 pm
“I bet a vast majority of Liberals would condemn use of an Ayn Rand quote in a public school same as the those commandment thingies?
Well, have any actually done so?
You’ve posted the statement and practically begged people to condemn it. I confess I haven’t followed it closely, but surely there are at least a handful of liberals who follow this blog. Have “the vast majority” condemned it?
If not, I’d say you were flat-out wrong, wouldn’t you?
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
2:02 pm
Sorry – not enough zeros …
I’ll five you three of mine, meat!
Morality?
September 17th, 2012
2:02 pm
O.K. we will put the HIV
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
2:02 pm
“See its simple. Want a bumper sticker”
Nah, I’m a heretic. I don’t have ANY bumper stickers on either of my vehicles
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
2:03 pm
give.
(I gotta focus on work and not this!)
weetamoe
September 17th, 2012
2:03 pm
The purpose of the tax deductions is to encourage certain behaviors, the merits of which should not be the determining factor in their continuation. Eliminating all deductions would in fact be the fairest of solutions available.
Morality?
September 17th, 2012
2:03 pm
O.K. We will put the HIV infected “bubba” in the cell with you. Surely you would have no objection to that?
De'Lanice
September 17th, 2012
2:08 pm
“…which again he defines as those making more than $100,000.”
At the risk of slightly muddying the waters in this conversation I would point out that the metric for identifying individuals’/couples’ incomes is what they report on their income tax returns. Hardly anyone overreports his income, but trust me the incidence of underreporting is astounding.
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
2:08 pm
“Eliminating all deductions would in fact be the fairest of solutions available”
Especially as they will hit the middle and lower “classes” MUCH harder than they will the “upper” class (aka: the rich)
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
2:09 pm
“We will put the HIV infected “bubba” in the cell with you. Surely you would have no objection to that?”
Not gonna happen. Prisons are segregated by sex
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
2:11 pm
Have “the vast majority” condemned it?
The vast majority for the most part has ignored this bit of trolling.
b-troll
September 17th, 2012
2:12 pm
“he ended up proving that a significant tax hike on the upper middle class would be necessary.”
Whatever Jay.
The upper middle class (me) can take it. We need tax reform. Romney’s plan is great.
And if you want to say those making over $100,000 per HH are middle class, I’d fundamentally beg to differ. Those are very well off folks.
But in Jay-land, we gotta tear the man down….. whatever.
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
2:15 pm
“But in Jay-land, we gotta tear the man down….. whatever”
Disagreement with someone is not the same thing as “tearing” that person down.
Duper
September 17th, 2012
2:17 pm
With all due respect(key word due)to the mortgage guy, the choice is the “biggest no brainer…” rugged individualism v. gov’t takeover of everything P & S
l i
a m
i p
n l
e
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
2:18 pm
Disagreement with someone is not the same thing as “tearing” that person down.
It is if the person Jay disagrees with is the object of jm’s bromance.
b-troll
September 17th, 2012
2:19 pm
Doggone,
Romney has provided 100X more specifics than Obama ever did.
Here’s his policy: lower rates, fewer deductions, without cutting tax revenue in aggregate.
If libs are too dense to get it, not Romney’s fault.
rightwing troll
September 17th, 2012
2:20 pm
“Romney is about to release a sensible plan for taxes, immigration, and foreign policy”
After campaigning for the last 8 years he finally got it all worked out?
Williebkind
September 17th, 2012
2:20 pm
Wow, I like the idea those making $100,000 are considered rich and get taxed more. That will affect a lot of libruls. We know that libruls dont give to charity and this tax is a good way of making sure libruls pay their fair share to all the social programs they insist we have to be a free America.
mm
September 17th, 2012
2:22 pm
“Romney’s plan is great.”
I love how the cons have to twist themselves into Gumby shapes to support this clown.
I think the inevitability of the November landslide for Obama is finally sinking in to the con establishment.
clem
September 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
the wealthy would not be hurt….they can pay cash for homes for most part.
100k income is not wealthy but middle class (2 income family earners)
romney is a total fraud.
he is out to do the bidding of the top 1% and the trickle down theory has widened wealth disparity
there should also be an wealth tax too for those freeloaders too
mm
September 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
“Romney is about to release a sensible plan for taxes, immigration, and foreign policy”
I guess he’ll tell us about it after he loses the election.
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
And we know that Republicans only give to their Jesus factories.
(How else is Jerry Falwell gonna afford those $2500 Italian suits???)
getalife
September 17th, 2012
2:25 pm
You can bet the cons will show up to vote no matter what the candidate steals from them.
Don’t vote and they win.
And you and our country loses.
They BOTH suck
September 17th, 2012
2:25 pm
Jm / b-troll
Guess Monday isn’t going to well for you. If you have a dog, please do not kick it on election night.
mm
September 17th, 2012
2:26 pm
“Here’s his policy: lower rates, fewer deductions, without cutting tax revenue in aggregate”
Wow, such deep thought. Aren’t you cons proud of yourselves?
clem
September 17th, 2012
2:26 pm
only thing RR need dynamic scoring for is all their bs
mm
September 17th, 2012
2:30 pm
So the Romney team reboots for maybe the fifth time. They want to focus on the GOP base.
Here’s a news flash. That’s all Romney has. That’s why he’s losing so badly.
Never get close to a con that’s trying to think. You don’t want to be too close when the head explodes.
independent thinker
September 17th, 2012
2:31 pm
When Romney tells me that his personal taxes will significantly increase despite obvious conflicts of
interest I will be willing to listen to the plan. Of course this would only be proposed after he gets elected.
b-troll
September 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
TBS 2:25
Monday is going great.
I just tire of the “Romney is a fraud” blog posts from Jay. Romney is a good person proposing the right policies.
Obama wants to raise tax rates and increase deductions, and spend more. All bad policies.
Economically, its a no-brainer. But that is only true if you have a brain. Ponder that.
Billybob
September 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
watch the leftists attack character on this site….anyone who doesn’t tote their politics of big gub’t, socialism, and statism…..recipe for disaster in nov though…..keep it up jay…..amazing how numerous papers and opinions guys and reporters are so in tune with each others messages, topics and even words choices on a daily basis…..the former soviet union state media establishment would be proud….. it’s easy to expose leftists like you jay, since you are now out in the open doing these kind of things without fear of repurcussions….that comes in nov….enjoy losing th ewhite house and the senate…….it will be nice to actually have a budget passed inthe senate for the first time since hussein became organizer in chief…..too easy
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
generic Congressional poll – 6 pt jump for Democrats over the wknd
http://www.pollingreport.com/cong2012.htm
Flip is gonna help us Flip the House.
TRUTH
September 17th, 2012
2:37 pm
Good one, Jay. Of course the response from the other side will be, “Who Us?”
They BOTH suck
September 17th, 2012
2:39 pm
B-troll
No need to ponder because anyone who is basing who has a brain based on political views isn’t using all of theirs.
Ponder that.
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
2:42 pm
Romney is a good person who has run a nightmarish campaign topped off by attacking American embassy personnel in grave peril instead of supporting them…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
2:44 pm
….that comes in nov….enjoy losing th ewhite house and the senate…
I wonder how many sock-puppets that have made predictions about this coming election will be here on/after Nov. 7.
Billybob
September 17th, 2012
2:44 pm
if you can’t admit obama has already raised taxes with obamacare on every american and is trying to institute the largest tax increase in the history of the world through his down right scandalous historical spending levels, then you are jay bookman…..thanks for making it so easy jay……if you just remember that liberal hacks like jay just lie and ignore what they wish then this is easy to understand…..we will all see this every day until the election when people see through this and elect someone who is not a socialist and anti-capitalist……fun stuff
CJ
September 17th, 2012
2:46 pm
Jay: “ Given Romney’s promise that his tax plan would be revenue neutral, lower taxes on the rich would have to be offset by higher taxes on someone else, correct? And as Feldstein has helpfully pointed out, that ’someone else’ would be the upper middle class.”
It’s worth remembering that Romney recently told George Stephanopoulos that he defined middle income as “$200,000 to $250,000 and less.” So, assuming Feldstein’s numbers are correct, Romney has contradicted himself again.
The bottom line is that Romney makes so many inconsistent and contradictory statements (including contradicting statements in his own book, “No Apology”) that we have no way of knowing what Romney would do as president.
CJ
September 17th, 2012
2:48 pm
if you can’t admit obama has already raised taxes with obamacare on every american
I’m an American, and my taxes haven’t gone up under ObamaCare?
Kamchak - "Socialism" is just a code word for "fear," the monster under you bed ~ Kamchak
September 17th, 2012
2:48 pm
.we will all see this every day until the election when people see through this and elect someone who is not a socialist and anti-capitalist……fun stuff
Socialism — BOO!……fun stuff
CJ
September 17th, 2012
2:49 pm
if you can’t admit obama has already raised taxes with obamacare on every american
I’m an American, and my taxes haven’t gone up under ObamaCare. (corrected)
theintelligentdesigner
September 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
It seems, then what is seems, that if those angry Muslims should lighten up and let go of their fetish, so should Mormons and their panties, and Catholics and their birth control fetish, or is that just a fetish concerning the female reproductive organ, or Baptists and their angels flying around at football games neurosis, or Buddhists and their cattle worship, or Hebrews and their problems with homosexuality, women and Moses, God of slaughter, the Moonies and their lying newspaper and holy handkerchief, I could go on. In this case the perceptive and hilarious AquaGirl is more correct than Mr. Bookman. If religion doesn’t exist for humorous purposes, it shouldn’t play in this world and should move its serious, pretentious behind parts to the next. Plus, is the holy underwear story true?
deegee
September 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
Reporters that are covering the Romney campaign have reported that Mitt is very much hands on in the strategy decisions and calling the shots. Clint Eastwood, who has a movie coming out this week and who’s wife has a reality TV series, was all Mitt’s idea. Knowing that should scare a lot of independent voters away from Mitt.
We just learned last week that the median income in the U.S. for 2011 is $62,273 annually. Why shouldn’t those making less than $100,000 be defined as middle class? Feldstein has it right. Unfortunately for Mitt, there are going to be a whole lot of people making over $100k a year that will be getting a big tax increase.
I would still like to see an economic study on the proposal to eliminate tax breaks for everyone with the understanding that we could start over with a progressive tax rate of 1 percent and top off at 10 percent. That way everyone pays something and no one gets to hide their income in shelters.
tm
September 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
Lets do a little math-A single person earning $175,000 a year with no deductions at all will pay $42,459 in federal income tax. Under the plan you get a 20% across the board tax rate reduction so the person will pay $8,491 less in taxes so his total tax bill will be $33,968. Under the current tax rates with no deductions a person would pay $33,968 on a total income of $144,674. Thus the person would need $30,000 in tax deductions in order to be better off under the current plan and that does not take into account the extra the person would pay with the Alternative Minimum tax which is going away. Does not seem to be a big hit that this when you factor in the ATM which current limits duductions.
Billybob
September 17th, 2012
2:52 pm
wake up cj….for your own good
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
2:54 pm
Are the SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS! factored in to Romney’s tax plan?
Tax increases on the middle class?
September 17th, 2012
2:57 pm
Obamacare is one huge tax increase on the middle class.
Billybob
September 17th, 2012
2:57 pm
it’s coming kam….read his book, listen to him speak, look at his policies….
Mick
September 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
billybob
You have been the victim of right wing propaganda, please develop a healthy dose of skepticism; the truth will set you free…
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
“No one EVER cut their way to Prosperity.”
–Ronald Reagan
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 17th, 2012
3:03 pm
it’s coming kam….read his book, listen to him speak, look at his policies….
This one’s for you, William Robert –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyXCkjMBK70
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
September 17th, 2012
3:05 pm
Only 50 days until MYTH ROBME goes away…. Awesome..
Robert Lee
September 17th, 2012
3:05 pm
Dang Billybob, you sound just like my old boss who told me over and over again, “… you’re too smart to believe in all these lies from the Muslim Socialist. There’s going to a revolution cause when he starts bringing in the UN troops……”
I’m still waiting on them UN troops to show up and still waiting on the revolution too.
Doggone/GA
September 17th, 2012
3:06 pm
“Here’s his policy: lower rates, fewer deductions, without cutting tax revenue in aggregate”
that’s not a policy. That’s an overview. The “policy” is in the details…just like the devil
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
3:07 pm
The revolution begins whenever our demented new-age McCarthyites crank up their witch hunts…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkb8IQ1oRII
Lord Help Us
September 17th, 2012
3:08 pm
I think BillyBob luvs him some Glenn Beck…
Chris Sanchez
September 17th, 2012
3:09 pm
JamVet
September 17th, 2012
1:37 pm
The two recommendations I made were ending corporate welfare ($125,000,000,000.00 annually), and shearing approximately a quarter of trillion dollars every year from the pentagon.
$500B out of $1.3T is 38%.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What about the other $800 billion? And that would simply get the budget into balance and not “make a dent” in paying down our debt. Entitlements have to be on the table as well. Where do you cut?
clem
September 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
tm, but a 6ngle person making a 100k paying state income taxes of 6k, mortgage interest of 9k, charitable of 8k is gonna lose. all this to give top 1% massive per capita cuts is nuts….trickle down has not worked and although the rich pay a hefty share in income taxes they also are getting wealthier and middle class has gone backwards. add to this many reports say romoney numbers are bogus and the deficit will grow.
Jay
September 17th, 2012
3:11 pm
sheets
Ahem
September 17th, 2012
3:13 pm
Some daily callery (sort of like drudgery). It is true accoring to Snopes; Truth-O-Meter; and Politifact.
Fighter Jets in Democratic Convention’s Military Montage were Turkish, not American
The Democratic Party’s national convention in Charlotte, N.C., may have doubled down on insulting the U.S. military community.
The Democratic National Committee has already apologized for using a photo of four Soviet-era Russian warships in a giant stage backdrop intended to illustrate the party’s support for military personnel and veterans.
That huge image, visible in the Time Warner Cable Arena during speeches by Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry and retired Admiral John B. Nathman, also depicted a synchronized formation of jet aircraft that convention-goers assumed were American fighter planes.
But the F-5 fighter planes in the photo are part of the air force of Turkey, a nation whose government is now jailing journalists and establishing Islam as a state religion.
Brad Woodhouse, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee, did not respond when the The Daily Caller asked why the convention planners displayed Turkish-flown aircraft alongside Russian warships while seeking support from the American military community.
Further illustration the Oblunda Administration is inept; incompetent; and stupid.
clanmack
September 17th, 2012
3:13 pm
Romney’s plan raises taxes on the middle class ($50k-$250K) even doing away with all the deductions. I would like to see how he plans to get Congress to pass the necessary bills to eliminate the deductions. Even if he gets to work with a (shudders!) Republican Congress, the middle class will rise up and make a mockery of our politicians. If the Democrats hold the Senate and keep the House from the Republicans, Romney will NEVER get the deductions removed. Except for the fact that it would send America further down the drain, it would serve the Republicans right to have the Democrats clog up the governmental processes as effectively as the Republicans have the last three and a half years. Lowering the taxes on the rich may fuel his election campaign, I just hope he, and the neo-cons, are defeated. It is too bad it won’t be a landslide to put them on the fringe where they belong. It is frightening to think they have any support at all. The Congress is basically “representation” without representation. If our Congress were food poisoning, we would all be dead or dying.
tm
September 17th, 2012
3:24 pm
Clem
I think you are forgetting that the AMT states increasing the tax rates at 48,450 even under your calculation its not a big hit
Hmmmmmmm
September 17th, 2012
4:00 pm
Either way you cut it… Democrat or Republican… This country and we the People are $crewed!
Dustin
September 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
Keep giving in to big business, and the wealthy, then the money they save will trickle down to the rest of us. There is only one problem with that. The wealthy seems to think they are inferior human beings. What used to be no longer holds true. They no longer want to have to pay an honest wage to the people providing services. They say if you will not do it for cheaper, I will find some body else to do it. Creating a undercutting process in which we suffer, and they get what they want. Short story long, Stand up to these types. I see it every day.
clem
September 17th, 2012
6:18 pm
dustin, amen….
most the folks running these organizations can be replaced too……remember bob nardelli….