Charter-school amendment not about charter schools
According to its backers, the proposed charter-school amendment on the ballot in November is intended to empower parents. As Gov. Nathan Deal put it back in May, “Georgians all across this state embrace the idea that parents should have more options and that parents should be more involved in the process of the education of their children.”
Parental involvement is good. Empowering parents is good. And charter schools have a legitimate, even important role to play in education in Georgia, which is why local school districts already have the power to create them, and why they continue to use that power. However, it’s one thing to embrace charter schools as an educational option. It is something else entirely to claim that creation of a new centralized state charter commission — a commission that is appointed, not elected, that has the capacity to spend hundreds of millions of tax dollars, and that is not answerable to voters — somehow moves power closer to the people. It does exactly the opposite.
By design, it strips local voters, local parents and local officials of authority over charter schools and places it in the hands of those controlled by state politicians.
That’s precisely why the Georgia Parent Teacher Association — a group whose primary goal is to improve public education through parental involvement — has come out so strongly in opposition to the measure.
“We cannot support this constitutional amendment, which will create an inequity in funding, siphon funds from local public schools where the great majority of the students in Georgia receive their education and deny parents meaningful engagement,” the group said late last month, reiterating a position it had taken earlier.
Backers of a state charter commission also like to depict themselves as champions of poor and inner-city students who find themselves trapped in poorly performing schools and need charters as an escape route. It’s a curious thing, though. Most of those pushing this constitutional amendment have no history of concern for poor Georgians in any other context. Not in health care, housing or employment, and not in any other aspect of education. Their sole area of concern seems to be expanding access to charter schools.
Maybe it’s just the cynic in me, but could it be that by feigning concern for poor children and their parents, well-connected, largely affluent parents also open the door to creating quasi-private schools for their own children, using taxpayer money diverted from the public school system?
I ask because urban school systems in Georgia have already made a significant commitment to charter schools. Some of those schools have performed well; others have not. That’s the nature of such experiments. But Atlanta Public Schools boasts 13 charter schools, and DeKalb County lists 13 of its schools as charters. Using the flexibility given it by current state law, the entire school system in Fulton County has gone to the charter form.
So why, exactly, do we need a separate, unaccountable and costly level of state bureaucracy again? Where is this vast unmet need for charters that can be addressed only through creation of a new state bureaucracy? It does not exist.
On the other hand, if the amendment passes, what will exist is a small, politically influential group of people with the power to recast public education in this state without oversight and independent of the usual checks and balances. And those who are going through all this trouble to seek that power clearly intend to use it.
– Jay Bookman
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358 comments Add your comment
kayaker 71
September 17th, 2012
9:03 am
Mick, 8:52,
First of all, I am not one of a number of “countless fools” that you describe. Sitting behind that computer gives you some courage to say foolish things, does it not? The students “picked” for enrollment in charter schools were picked by a lottery system and had names drawn from a hat. I have no doubt that the problem is much more complicated than just charter schools but in large part, they have been very successful in most places that they have been instituted. We have poured money into this hole in the ground for many years now and we have worse results than we have ever had as to reading comprehension, math and social sciences. Lots of people who “graduate” from HS can’t even fill out a job application without help. If blaming those “self serving” Republicans makes you feel better, then by all means go for it. But it doesn’t solve the problem.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
9:03 am
jm: Btw, you’re a good guy, but this is a stupid statement: …
For obvious reasons.
http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/tag/white-hat-management/
White Hat Management is one of Ohio’s largest for-profit charter school operators.
In the fall of 2011, it operated 46 schools in six states, according to company materials. The Ohio schools it operates include traditional charter schools as well as online charter schools and charter schools serving students who had dropped out of school.
White Hat is based in Akron and is owned by former manufacturing company CEO David Brennan.
White Hat is probably not the only for-profit operator either. That’s simply the first that came up on a google search.
What was so stupid about my statement? What was factually incorrect about my statement? You’re a good guy yourself, but you have a habit of chewing on your foot on a regular basis. I’d suggest a support group for that problem.
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:05 am
Brocephus: The sad thing is that once again they fail to see their hypocrisy. s to YOUR daughter? Keep saving and come on over to Woodward. They have scholarships and loans, and grants, and so on. It is the best money you will ever spend. The best sacrifice you will ever make. Me and my beat to hell ‘98 Ram guarantee it.
I’ll let the Republican wannabe rich hypocrites drive the new cars and live in houses they can’t afford while they try to steal my money to pay for their private school. I have pride, honor and integrity. I’ll pay for my daughters education the old fashioned American way, I’ll work and sacrifice for it.
Martin the Calvinist
September 17th, 2012
9:05 am
I can’t help but notice that Jay is railing against an unelected beauracracy when the Federal gov’t is full of them from the healthcare legislation, the IRS, The EPA, and other intities but Jay has absolutely no problem with them. Yes, I’m feeling a little snarky btw.
Also, I personally think the charter school admendment should be voted down. Charter schools should be either a city or county decision……
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
9:06 am
Whenever you hear the words “X should have more options” from a con’s mouth, get ready for another massive wealth redistribution upwards.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:06 am
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
8:44 am
1st off I’m not asking about what you do. You obviously are not in the situation I described as you Made the assertion that footing the bill for private education is a possibility.
I am asking about what to do for those whom that is not an option.
I’m not asking about this for me, my child attends a private school that I pay for as will his 2 younger brothers.
I also made sure that he was able to read and write before he arrived for day 1.
However it is selfish and self centered to think that my story is everyone’s or that everyone has the options I am able to provide for my family.
A parent can do nothing to ensure all of the other parents are doing their job.
It’s not all about being prepared and involved.
With the amount of violence, insubordination, and overall distractions thru misbehavior does not provide the most conducive learning environment.
1 parent making sure their child is prepared and able to allow learning does not mean a school will work.
It takes an entire community to be united for public education to be successful.
What is the single mother with no extra funds to do in Clayton County, or Bibb County?
Would you be comfortable sending your child to school in Bibb County?
Before you answer quickly you may want to check out the violence at schools in that district lately.
Jay
September 17th, 2012
9:06 am
“Here’s where your wrong Jay. You have no clue what its like to have a child in a failing school system with no option but private school.”
And here’s yet another case where YOU are wrong, Joseph. As I’ve noted before, my two daughters attended Atlanta public schools K-12 and got a fine education there, going onto two of the finest colleges in the country and doing very well there.
Yes, the schools they attended were some of the best that APS has to offer. But they were that way because parents — including my wife and I — got deeply involved in those schools.
Jm
September 17th, 2012
9:08 am
Peadawg 9am
Amen. Underperforming teachers turn down 4% annual automatic raises. Whatev.
Teachers unions are sick in the head.
Kids first.
Mick
September 17th, 2012
9:09 am
yaker
Chill…you referenced that movie, I happen to disagree with its thesis. I taught many years in both catholic and inner city public schools, so I know a little bit about the problem. Teachers union are the convenient scapegoat. Here’s some truth, I’ll take our top 17% of the brightest and put them up against any students in the world, they never seem to get any good ink. The most consistent trait in those students? Great parents, blaming teachers is the soup of the day and a republican talking point – screw them…
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
9:09 am
“Kids first.”
Obviously not in Chicago. Disgusting.
Brosephus™
September 17th, 2012
9:09 am
Pea
I would not advocate them striking as I think that takes away from the kids. However, when you have no other option, then you have to get people’s attention in some form or fashion.
—————————
Being “involved with” without being “empowered in,” as are the teacher’s unions and state bureaucrats, is meaningless.
Whining about teacher’s unions in a state where they don’t exist is meaningless as well. Being “involved with” also makes one empowered as well. Those who don’t get involved have no power to change anything. Getting involved in something ultimately gives one the power to make changes from within the system. You never get that power by sitting on the sideline and complaining.
You are not going to convince me that something that will ultimately end up as being welfare to those with means will make education better for those who really need the assistance.
Jm
September 17th, 2012
9:10 am
Bro 9:03
We’re discussing GA
Please cite for profits running charter schools please
Your factual response appreciated thx
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:11 am
Jay,
Sorry about your pal..sucks I know.
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:12 am
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
9:09 am
“Kids first.”
Obviously not in Chicago. Disgusting.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I give’s a damn about Chicago. I live in GEORGIA, more specifically ATLANTA. This blog is in an ATLANTA paper talking about a GEORGIA issue.
What happens in Chicago has no bearing on what happens here. Quit trying to avoid the Republican stench and malfeasance here by trying to divert attention elsewhere.
larry
September 17th, 2012
9:13 am
Wal-Mart heiress Alice Walton of Arkansas has given $250,000 to the cause.”)
And you wonder why she is for the cause. She wants them to start early getting trained for a career of part-time work with no benefits. Then watch the state as they cut health-care benefits for your child.
If this passes , look for the Wal-mart education department. I wonder if they will only hire teachers from overseas?
Mary Elizabeth
September 17th, 2012
9:13 am
This amendment is political more than it is educational, imo. Ultraconservatives have been stealthily pushing for the privatization of America’s public institutions for more than 30 years. Their latest focus has been centered on public education, especially in Republican dominated states. Children will not be well served by converting public education to a profit-based industry that focuses more on the bottom line of money, than the growth of students. Better to improve public education from within, using those charter schools that work with, and are authorized by, public school districts.
If you want your child’s school to be better, then advocate for that goal to your local PTA, principal, and local school board. You have the option of voting members of your local board out of office if they are not responsive to your concerns, or of appealing their decisions to the state’s Board of Education. Those are the proper channels for advocating for educational improvement, not this amendment which, again, is more political in nature, than educational, imo.
The fact that 96% of the financial donors to passing this amendment are from out-of-state speaks loudly to how political this amendment is. I do not believe that all of those out-of-state donors are donating their money to Georgia’s education policy simply for altruistic reasons. Citizens must question what some might have to gain financially from this amendment’s passage.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:15 am
Jay
September 17th, 2012
9:06 am
Bet I can tell you what side of town they attended school at?
You think you being involved would have given them the same education say at South Atlanta high school? Or what if you lived in Webster County?
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:16 am
Jm
September 17th, 2012
9:10 am
Bro 9:03
We’re discussing GA
Please cite for profits running charter schools please
Your factual response appreciated thx
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your usual deliberate obtuseness is noted.
Google is your friend.
Here is a quick example of your fine charter schools here in Georgia: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/us/audits-for-3-georgia-charter-schools-tied-to-gulen-movement.html
Don't Tread
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Not a perfect system, but I’m all for the money following the child in some form or another.
HDB
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
“What is the option if a parent lives in a failing school’s district and that parent does not have the funds to send their child to private school?”
If one looks at education honestly, there are public schools that perform….and some that don’t; for those that don’t, parents have the option to transfer their children to better performing public schools within a district. When the Atlanta Public Schools on the southside weren’t performing to my mother’s taste…she transferred me to one the high-performing schools on the northside! I had to wake up earlier and catch three buses to get there….but that’s what was required! Parents have that option….but they will meet resistance from those who live in the high-performing areas…because they desire to keep high performing schools amongst the “elite”…rather than for all!! That mentality must change……
Chris Sanchez
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Let me see if I can hit the major points being made here:
1) There are a lot of people who work for the state government that are appointed rather than elected. The person doing the appointing is elected.
2) Of course funding that will be “diverted” from public schools to charter schools…there will be students in charter schools thus reducing the funding requirements for the public schools.
3) Yep…there is an agenda behind the drive towards charter schools. Just as those who support the status quo. EVERYONE has motives behind initiatives they support. Nothing new there!
At first glance when I learned of this amendment I found myself squarely in the same camp with Jay…however, anything that get so many liberals THIS upset deserves a second look and more consideration. My initial view may not change but it just might!
barking frog
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
David Farrar ex animo
When did you stop being
an animo?
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:12 am
1. I was responding to someone else.
2. You don’t get to tell me what I can and can’t post.
3. Blogspot.com is ready when you are.
Back off.
David Farrar
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Brosephus said: “Being “involved with” also makes one empowered as well.”
Without the ability to change the flow of money within the system, you have no structural power to change anything. You may, indeed, be politely listened to, but as long as you don’t affect the flow of money to the teacher’s pocketbook, you won’t be heard.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
I’m very confused about the whole education thingy. One one hand, I’m concerned that comparing us to other nations that have a fraction of the school aged kids is absurd…the bigger issue being the economic disparity which is also very different and not in our favor.
We know throwing more money doesn’t work. Parental involvement is simply not an option for a significant number of parents as they are transitional in many cases, have no family tradition in education, come from single family homes where parent works afterschool hours (single parent homes have several challenges)…no school district can control these variables.
The unions and liberals don’t seem to want testing to have a material impact which in some cases is justified…I think two tracks…one traditional college prep and the other vocational track is the way to go…teachers should be evaluated with a formula the accounts for underpriviledged kids, some factor of test scores…
larry
September 17th, 2012
9:18 am
I wonder if they are going to establish a charter school in rural areas that can barely afford to fund their regular public schools.
And as far as private schools, the only ones closest to me are more than 50 miles away.
James
September 17th, 2012
9:19 am
Of course we should just maintain the status quo. Public education has been such a whopping success in Georgia.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:19 am
JAY,
What are the performance returns on Obama’s assigned Czars…don’t they fit the description of the group being pushed in GA education? I don’t agree with either..no accountability…I have no idea what either can possibly do…
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:19 am
HDB
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Where is a parent from Webster County going to send their child?
A single dad in Clayton County who works 2 jobs just to scrap by and cannot transport his child to another school out of district?
TaxPayer
September 17th, 2012
9:21 am
So, what precisely are the benefits to Georgians of allowing select state leaders to appoint persons to manage a new and improved charter school system using tax payer money but with no tax payer oversight? Will my property taxes be reduced?
Any cons on here care to provide something more substantive than “APS sucks”, etc.
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:22 am
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:12 am
1. I was responding to someone else.
This is a PUBLIC blog. If you want a private conversation get a room or exchange telephone numbers.
2. You don’t get to tell me what I can and can’t post.
Never have sport and never will
3. Blogspot.com is ready when you are.
Are you starting your own blog?
Back off.
No. And bite me.
Where you satisfied with the dawgs performance Saturday?
Jm
September 17th, 2012
9:23 am
Fred 9:16
A. You don’t read what you respond to, and then isukt the writer, so why should I care what you say
B. I read your nytimes link. There isn’t one piece of relevant info regarding GA charters being for profit, which was the topic at hand.
C. Yes that is an example of a poorly run charter school. The baby shouldn’t be tossed out with the bathwater.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:23 am
The other problem with private schools beyond expense is the religious factor…the majority of these schools have a decided religious dogma…I think the major non religious private schools are Westminster, Woodward and Lovett….all very expensive and very white.
PTA participation is the best measure as to a schools performance as evaluted by testing…the PTA participation is the key variable in identifying the good, bad and ugly…too bad it’s simply not an option is so many districts..
David Farrar
September 17th, 2012
9:25 am
Marty Huggins’
Empower the consumers of public education and schools will be opening up all around you. We have to free the education of Georgia’s young from the clutches of organized unions and state bureaucrats. They are the ones driving up the costs, while failing to educate, not the consumers.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
9:25 am
Here is a quick example of your fine charter schools here in Georgia:
Oh, sweet Jesus of the McMansion communities save us…… it’s MOOSLIM for profit companies running the schools!
Hide the chilluns!!!!
BTW, if reading about Muslims running the schools is too frightening, Edison Learning runs the Drew Charter School in East Lake. Presumably Edison is owned by white Christian people but you might want to check on that.
Fly-On-The-Wall
September 17th, 2012
9:25 am
This is silly, if a Charter School is so good then it will stand on its own without public tax dollars. My son is out of school but I’ll still be paying taxes to help the educational system here in Georgia and that is ok by me. I want this state and country to succeed.
TaxPayer
September 17th, 2012
9:26 am
Isn’t this loss of local control contradictory to stated Republican principles?
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:27 am
Marty Huggins’
September 17th, 2012
9:19 am
HDB
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Where is a parent from Webster County going to send their child?
A single dad in Clayton County who works 2 jobs just to scrap by and cannot transport his child to another school out of district?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Both Webster County AND Clayton County elect the school board THEY WANT. If they choose to have crappy people in charge then what should we do? Go in there with the National Guard and execute the “wrong people’ until they elect the “right ones?”
Take care of your OWN yard, don’t give us the “what ifs over there.” It’s another attempt at diversion from the blatant money grad that the Republican controlled state Government is doing NOW.
Speaking of Clayton County…… aren’t those the idiots that just elected a sheriff who has a 70+ count indictment against him? Those folks get exactly what they want and deserve. As to the single dad there? They have empty affordable apartments in other Counties. He can move.
St Simons - (ab)original Georgian
September 17th, 2012
9:27 am
this is the stsimons family’s No 1 issue, since we have 5 little indians
in Georgia’s public ed system, and judging by the view from here, that
system was plenty good enough for me & mrsstsimons.
This is an unconstitutional cynical desperate move by the cons because
they are losing in the marketplace of ideas. Georgia’s children will be
dumber and more ‘conservative’ if they can use your tax money to
teach them jesus rode on the dinosaurs. I’m sick of this.
We’re not moving to Amelia (fla). We are staying here, and fighting
the cons until they are utterly defeated. You can teach them all the
private voodoo crap you want to, just pay for your damn self, cons.
Darwin
September 17th, 2012
9:27 am
Let’s see. Who runs charter schools? Is it corporations? If yes. Who is a good source of campaign contributions to the Republican party? You see, that’s why the Republicans want the government out of government. But still run things in government.
Steve Shamrock
September 17th, 2012
9:27 am
US Credit Rating downgraded again…Jay will cover this topic later today…right Jay?
larry
September 17th, 2012
9:27 am
@ David Farrar , name the organized educational union in the state of Georgia please.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:28 am
DAVID,
Agree wholeheartedly about the selfish unions involvement…the only outcome of which is to weaken local taxpayers with long term liabilities what we can’t afford when they come to roost…look at Chicago..can’t imaging a DEM like Emmanuel would every take counter position to a union…until of course, the bankruptcy of the city is a real threat down the road…
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:29 am
David Farrar
September 17th, 2012
9:25 am
This points you brought up are valid.
But the majority of the problem with the bad schools is the parents and the students.
Nothing I can do to raise other people’s children.
Unions (which we don’t have in GA) are just a way for parents to blame something besides themselves or their children
Ronald Reagan Parkway
September 17th, 2012
9:29 am
Gwinnett County does NOT support this amendment!
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:30 am
B. I read your nytimes link. There isn’t one piece of relevant info regarding GA charters being for profit, which was the topic at hand
No. the topic at hand is how “non profit charters” divert money to “for profit companies.” You just pretend not to understand that. You pretend that if you play stupid long enough Brocephus will somehow lose the brains he has and say, “Well golly Jm. You have dumbed me down enough to where I now can’t see behind the smoke and mirrors that the “non profits” are merely shells for the profits.”
It ain’t gonna happen. You need to move over to Kyles with that type of insipid crap. We have brains over here.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
September 17th, 2012
9:31 am
We have to free the education of Georgia’s young from the clutches of organized unions and state bureaucrats
David, please do tell us which “organized unions” have GA’s education system in their “clutches”. Is this the same analysis style you used to bring those “birther” arguments to GA?
Moderate Line
September 17th, 2012
9:31 am
What is interesting is that the left is arguing against state control of schools vs local control and the right is arguing the opposite. Just goes to show how inconsistant both sides are.
I see arguments that this is an effort to funnel public money to private companies. Who actually builds roads in this country the state or the private companies. Almost all the money that goes into DOT goes to private companies except the money used to administrate the program. What about the federal money that goes to support private colleges?
Next argument, the state is going to create a state agency increasing bureacracy and expenses. Why do we have a Federal Department of Education? The left is against creating another state commission but I have never seen many on the left opposing the Department of Education at the federal level even though it educates no one.
I am typically not a big supporter of charter schools but actually believe the state should take more control over public schools because the “Local control” of public schools is what creates the disparity in funding between school systems. I find it extremely odd the left is arguing for local control knowing this is one of the reason poorer rural schools have no way of funding a quality school system. The arguing for local control makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.
http://www.casfg.org/data/
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
9:31 am
“This is a PUBLIC blog” – Correct. I can post whatever I want as long as it’s within Jay’s rules. YOU don’t get to tell me otherwise.
Fred, I’m not sure what your problem is this morning, but you need to tone it down and stop attacking me. Why did you single me out? Why didn’t you attack Bro and Jm for talking about the Chicago teacher strike also?
Jefferson
September 17th, 2012
9:33 am
Let the state take it all, fund it all, set the standards…etc. Take the permanent lein off the property. Property taxes should be for local cops, fire, admin. Let the state have it, education that is.
Jay
September 17th, 2012
9:33 am
The “czar” argument, Stevie Ray? Seriously?
Let me explain in simple terms how this works:
1.) The right wing took executive positions of the type that have existed in all previous administrations, Democratic and Republican, and it relabeled those positions “czars.”
2.) It then professed to be outraged by this outbreak of “czars.”
That’s it in its entirety. It is a completely manufactured controversy, without basis in a rational world.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:34 am
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:27 am
They vote all the same in those counties 100%?
Wow!
What about the parents who disagree with the elected officials?
One of the reasons I do pay for my child to go to a private school. But everyone does not have the same option I do.
Why should kids or parents suffer because they live in an area with ignorant voter bases?
Screw the kid cause his neighbors don’t know better?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:35 am
Marty,
Are you suggesting the unions are part of the solution?
Video tape suggests otherwise..
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
9:35 am
Where is a parent from Webster County going to send their child?
To Webster County charter schools, which can be created by Webster County.
If there are no charter schools in Webster County, that’s because the ELECTED officials haven’t created them, or put one where your theoretical downtrodden parent can send his kid.
If he doesn’t like what his fellow citizens have voted for he can MOVE. Losing at the ballot box does not mean he gets to opt out. What a whining mess that parent is if he insists every single government service be run according to his dictates. Sounds like a Tea Potty member.
TaxPayer
September 17th, 2012
9:35 am
I just cannot wait for places like Phoenix to move into the k-12 space. Given what they have managed to accomplish in the higher learning space through the mis-use of federal government-backed loans, they should be able to work real wonders through the unaccountable handling of state and local money supplies.
Mary Elizabeth
September 17th, 2012
9:36 am
“Of course funding that will be ‘diverted’ from public schools to charter schools…there will be students in charter schools thus reducing the funding requirements for the public schools
========================================
“Cherokee Charter Academy’s funding woes were quickly subdued Thursday after hearing Gov. Nathan Deal’s pledge to hand out $10 million in bridge funding to Georgia charter schools that were affected by a state Supreme Court ruling in May. . . .
“Thursday’s action by the governor might leave the Cherokee School District impacted too. Losing students to a new school could equate to further reductions in state funding.
There was no official response released by the school system Thursday; however, school spokeswoman Barbara Jacoby earlier stated in an email on behalf of Superintendent Frank Petruzielo, “If all 995 students are current school district students, or kindergartners previously expected to enroll, the state funding decrease could be as much as $3.7 million for [the next fiscal year].
The school system is already facing $26.6 million in state austerity cuts and a $9 million reduction in property tax collections.”
———————————————————-
Read more: Cherokee Tribune – Deal’s pledge will help Cherokee Charter
http://cherokeetribune.com/view/full_story/14707729/article-Deal%E2%80%99s-pledge-will-help-Cherokee-Charter?#
Moderate Line
September 17th, 2012
9:36 am
Mary Elizabeth
September 17th, 2012
9:13 am
If you want your child’s school to be better, then advocate for that goal to your local PTA, principal, and local school board. You have the option of voting members of your local board out of office if they are not responsive to your concerns, or of appealing their decisions to the state’s Board of Education. Those are the proper channels for advocating for educational improvement, not this amendment which, again, is more political in nature, than educational, imo/.
========
Who are you to determine the proper channel for people to express their concerns? If people want to express their concerns through the state government I believe it is their right. If you do not like what the state is doing I beleive you can do the same thing you are advocating at the state level.
David Farrar
September 17th, 2012
9:37 am
Ray,
There is nothing wrong with religious school receiving public funds for secular education as long as the state’s educational requirements are met.
Little Johnny see two disciples standing at the window and three disciples standing at the door. As long as little Johnny see five disciples in total, the state is satisfied .
ex animo
davidfarrar
Bill Orvis White
September 17th, 2012
9:37 am
Public screwels have not been legitimate since the ACLU came in and kicked God out of its teachings. Ever since the early 1960s, kids have been disrespectful, got into the drink and drugs, engaged in deviant sexual escapades while learning to think that it’s all okay to burn the American flag, apologize to jihadists and hug trees.
School should be taught in a nuclear home whereby the father goes out to earn real money while the mother stays at home to teach her children. WE LOST THAT IN THIS ONCE-FREE NATION!
If a mother cannot stay home, then THAT’S WHERE CHARTERS AND/OR VOUCHERS COME IN! END OF STORY! END OF ARGUMENT! There is nothing more to talk about in this discussion! NOTHING!
Look at what’s going on in Liberal Chicago! WAKE UP PEOPLE! WE ARE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD AND WE ARE SITTING HERE READING DRIVEL FROM SOCIALISTS WHO THINK THAT GOVERNMENT-RUN INSTITUTIONS ARE OKAY FOR OUR CHILDREN! GOOD NIGHT!
Amen,
Bill
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:37 am
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…
September 17th, 2012
9:23 am
The other problem with private schools beyond expense is the religious factor…the majority of these schools have a decided religious dogma…I think the major non religious private schools are Westminster, Woodward and Lovett….all very expensive and very white.
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If that is YOUR statement Stevie then I would suggest that you are very wrong as far as Woodward Academy is concerned. They have a very diverse student population. I think were you to go look you would find a very highly disproportionate population of Indians. Race is not an issue there which is one thing most parents there really like.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:37 am
JAY,
Sorry I’m not following….Are you suggesting the federal czars are effective or are you suggesting they are different than those cited in your argument, or are you suggesting it is a bi-partisan approach..if the latter, I could care less…
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:39 am
FRED,
I definitely shot from the hip regarding Woodward…if you are correct, it’s good that we have at least one anomoly to the norm….
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:41 am
Fred,
You also show your vast ignorance when you claim he can just move!
Where is he going to get deposit, 1st and last month rent. Or could it be the dad lives where he does because of work?
In your world why would anyone live in a bad neighborhood, or in a bad school district?
I mean after all they just move right.
You don’t know a lot of fols struggling do you Fred?
If you did you wouldn’t write such idiotic things
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:41 am
DAVID,
Do religious schools get state money?
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:41 am
Steve Shamrock
September 17th, 2012
9:27 am
US Credit Rating downgraded again…Jay will cover this topic later today…right Jay?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
And here is ANOTHER Republican attempt at diverting attention away from the blatant unconstitutional money and power grab by the Georgia Republicans.
Do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain……..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
9:42 am
Jay: “Yes, the schools they attended were some of the best that APS has to offer. But they were that way because parents — including my wife and I — got deeply involved in those schools.”
And – let’s not forget – because you had the socio-economic wherewithal to do so.
TaxPayer
September 17th, 2012
9:44 am
The GOP is stuck on stupid. – Rick Santorum’s non-politically correct words.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:44 am
MARTY,
From my experience on PTA committees and fund raisers for local public schools, I can validate your argument….those who have to move every 6 months to get one month rent free are many in number and can’t do a thing about it…its these transient students that take up inordinate teacher time….nothing can be done however and these folks to need extra support…
GT
September 17th, 2012
9:44 am
I get the feeling most of the Georgian legislature does not wake up in the morning thinking of our children or their educations. No more the mafia thinks of it. A lot of the dysfunctional landscape in Georgia is sponsored by these kind of selfish people who are elected by equally selfish voters. On education, they are, “I got mine now they can get their’s”. Only reason they are looking into it now is the money involved and controlled by local school districts that are slowly looking at this mess for what it is. They can see locals demanding better education and taking it out of the state control, which may cause people to wonder what do they do in that capital building in Atlanta besides steal our money.
David Farrar
September 17th, 2012
9:47 am
Marty Huggins’
Teacher Oganizations of Georgia:
Georgia Association Of Educators
Georgia Federation Of Teachers
Atlanta Federation Of Teachers
Gwinnett County Association Of Educators
Clayton County Education Association
Atlanta Association Of Educators
Hall County Association Of Educators
Metro Association Of Classroom Educators
Organization Of Dekalb Educators
Gwinnett County Association Of Educators
Professional Association Of Georgia Educators
Savannah Federation Of Teachers
Education Association/nea
ex animo
davidfarrar
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
9:47 am
Where is he going to get deposit, 1st and last month rent. Or could it be the dad lives where he does because of work?
If you can’t afford children, DON’T HAVE THEM. He should have spent $1 for a condom instead of spawning kids and then asking for a handout. And couldn’t his babymama have gotten some of those $9 birth control pills we keep hearing about from the menz here? Better yet, they should keep their legs closed! There ya go, problem solved! It’s not MY responsibility!!!!!
Wow, speaking like a conservative lecturing @$$hole sure is tiring, I can see why they’re cranky all the time.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:47 am
JAY,
I think I understand now…are you once again cited blame on the party you seemingly wish would vanish…everything they do, say or represent is clearly wrong in the LIBS book…
Some of us don’t care…both parties are part of the problem no solution..
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:48 am
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
9:35 am
So I see you are one of the just move crowd too.
So is it your opinion all people who live in bad neighborhoods or hi crime areas do so by choice or because they agree with the actions going on around them?
Moving cost money, jobs tend not to move with people either.
Btw I have not and do not agree with this proposal.
But acting like the current state of affairs is working shows your ignorance or your loyalty to public schools as they currently stand.
Again I feel that some type of reform is needed, not for me or mine, because some people do not have the opportunity to send their child to a private school of their choosing
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:50 am
Marty Huggins’
September 17th, 2012
9:41 am
Fred,
You also show your vast ignorance when you claim he can just move!
Where is he going to get deposit, 1st and last month rent. Or could it be the dad lives where he does because of work?
In your world why would anyone live in a bad neighborhood, or in a bad school district?
I mean after all they just move right.
You don’t know a lot of fols struggling do you Fred?
If you did you wouldn’t write such idiotic things
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He could ask me. I arrange all the time for folks to get deposits and such. There are many organizations out there that take care of that.
Unfortunately for you and your weak ass argument I DO know a TON of people struggling. I work at 3 different shelters that offer a wide variety of assistance. I have helped many neighbors and acquaintances get jobs, negotiate terms with their bank to keep from being foreclosed, and given them food off my table. Unlike YOU I understand this reality.
You don’t. You are wanting to steal MORE money from these struggling people and put it in the pockets of your rich Republican gods. Shame on you.
I would pray for you and your ilk except I’ don’t pray. If I DID pray, I would pray for fire and brimstone on your house and a swarm of locusts to infest you and all the folks like you who are trying to crush the little chance that poor folks have of getting any education as you suck the money out of their schools and funnel it to the pockets of rich republican supporters. You want to see how well “private for profit” education works (which this is nothing but a shell game for) then do a little research on the “for profit universities” and the 100’s of billions in defaulted student loans THOSE have cost us.
Oh no pal, I understand you and your ilk TOO WELL. Don’t piss on MY head and tell me it’s rain.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:50 am
TAXPAYER,
What would our view look like if we got rid of the GOP in it’s entirety? What would the view look like if the DEM party vanished? Seems that’s what all the pundits on both sides strive for…
Oscar
September 17th, 2012
9:50 am
Charter schools. A bad idea. Vote no on the amendment. This is not something we need.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:51 am
Welcome to the Occupation
September 17th, 2012
9:42 am
No no you are wrong ask Fred or Aquagirl if they care they can just move.
It’s their fault if they decide to stay.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 17th, 2012
9:51 am
Well, this charter school thing is just one step toward getting what us Christians want—help with paying for private schools and getting our kids away from this godless teaching about how humans come from monkeys. Once our kids get to learn about how the whole world started a few thousand years ago in the Garden of Eden and they can pray to a Christian God right in school, we’ll be taking a big step toward turning this wicked world around.
And the bonus is, our kids won’t need to be in school with a whole bunch of Those People. Our kids can be with their own kind, the way God intended it.
Anyhow, I’ll be voting for this Charter school thing and hoping that little Nathan Zell George can start in one and not be exposed to all that trash that fills up the public schools these days.
Have a good Monday everybody.
George P. Burdell
September 17th, 2012
9:52 am
There is plenty of blame to go around on public education and both sides have contributed. The teacher unions and administration are so entrenched that it is hard to get reforms through and weed out bad teachers. That as much as anything has led to the charter issue on-going now. I don’t think that is a good solution either because it will eventually pick winners and losers all on the taxpayers dime. We desparately need to improve the education system in a way that maximizes the money we are spending and helps all students. All of the other battles along the way are a waste of time and resources if they don’t ultimately contribute to that solution. I have a child in public school in Dekalb and the problem cannot be solved by simply throwing more money at it. When cuts happen, it is almost always to programs that directly help the students while protecting the bloated central office. Pouring more money in will only lead to more ineffiency in the system. I’m all for spending what is reasonable but I am deadset against the idea that just allocating more money to “fix” things. The best way I’ve seen is to make parents accountable, but that doesn’t totally solve the problem because some kids just have bad parents. If we just look the other way, those kids tend to become takers from society later on.
David Farrar
September 17th, 2012
9:53 am
Stevie Ray
“Do religious schools get state money?”
To my knowledge, they don’t. My point is, as long as they meet secular state ED standards; there is no reason why they shouldn’t.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:54 am
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
9:47 am
Don’t claim to be speaking as a conservative a-hole……..
You were doing fine as a regular A-hole to simply declare the dad, mom or any parent should just move.
All class!
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:54 am
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
9:47 am
Wow, speaking like a conservative lecturing @$$hole sure is tiring, I can see why they’re cranky all the time.
+++++++++++++++++++
Yeah but it IS fun giving them their own words back and watching them get all outraged like poor little Marty isn’t it?
Isn’t it ALSO funny to see them try to spin this money grab, this transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich as someone described it (sorry I forget who and don’t want to credit the wrong person), as if they are “doing it for the poor.” Like that “poor man in Clayton or Webster County.”
bullcrap, it’s a scummy attempt at grinding a jackbooted rich heel into the back of the necks of the poor and pushing their faces down even further.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:54 am
MARTY,
When my kids were in elementary school, they went to a school that was very diverse…maybe 40% whities…
One day I was musing with the bus driver who told me that to many of the kids he drops off in the afternoon, he was the last adult these kids see before morning…heart wrenching to say the least…the amount of trascient housing that feeds a school is the number one driver of poor school performance..
Nothing we or they can do….its just the way things are..
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
September 17th, 2012
9:57 am
REDNECK,
Are you serious or being sarcastic? If serious, that is the most absurd blog I’ve read in a long time…for so many reasons (not the least of which is ignorance) there is not time on this or any forume to respnd..
Aquagirl
September 17th, 2012
9:57 am
So I see you are one of the just move crowd too.
No, I’ve now joined the “moralistic prigs who lecture others about their sexytime” crowd. Keep up.
I may be on a downward spiral but I’m not jumping in your “we gotta do something without thinking it through” crowd.
If you like doing things without thinking, be my guest. Have at it. I will continue to point out your lack of a coherent thought process, though, sorry you don’t like that.
Mary Elizabeth
September 17th, 2012
9:57 am
Moderate Line, 9:36 am
“Mary Elizabeth: Who are you to determine the proper channel for people to express their concerns?”
———————————————————————–
Perhaps I should have written the “proper educational channels.”
If you wish to pursue a more political channel (or if you have closed your eyes as to how political this amendment is), then you will vote in support of this amendment, instead of pursuing the more purely educationally based channels for school improvement, which I had previously outlined for concerned parents and citizens.
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:58 am
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
9:31 am
“This is a PUBLIC blog” – Correct. I can post whatever I want as long as it’s within Jay’s rules. YOU don’t get to tell me otherwise.
Fred, I’m not sure what your problem is this morning, but you need to tone it down and stop attacking me. Why did you single me out? Why didn’t you attack Bro and Jm for talking about the Chicago teacher strike also?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don’t be so sensitive Pea, it was an all inclusive thing. You are the only one who got butthurt. (LOl I’ve always wanted to use that phrase). Don’t take it personal.
I WOULD have used it on Thomas but I figured he was too stupid to respond to. But then others picked up that insipid Chicago diversion.
Don’t feel bad Pea, I still love you.
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
9:58 am
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:50 am
And you show your @ss again.
I’m not a republican. Don’t have any ties to republicans.
But I guess it makes your argument stronger to paint me as such, especially if you don’t have a true rebuttle other than they should move.
Is it your opinion people live in undesirable conditions because they choose to?
It seems as if it is based on your previous comments.
TaxPayer
September 17th, 2012
9:59 am
What would the view look like if the DEM party vanished?
The GOP rules Georgia at the state level. Look around. What do you see.
David Farrar
September 17th, 2012
9:59 am
George P. Burdell
Your problem will be solved when the consumers of public education are empowered within the system as the third-leg, as are the teachers unions and state bureaucrat, of public education.
ex animo
davidfarrar
kitty
September 17th, 2012
10:01 am
Chris Sanchez
September 17th, 2012
9:17 am
Let me see if I can hit the major points being made here:
1) There are a lot of people who work for the state government that are appointed rather than elected. The person doing the appointing is elected.
===================================
Chris, but doesn’t that make one additional unnecessary layer before accountability. If the board is elected directly then the board is directly accountable. Not some other elected official who is responsible for several things. The line of accountability is clearer and with local school boards more local. I thought that was what the GOP wanted? This looks like a move towards for profit charter schools to me by taking accountability out. How do you protest that if you don’t have a direct line of responsibility?
skipper
September 17th, 2012
10:02 am
Stuff like this happens when what you are doing is not working. (See APS.) After years of complete idiocy something has to give. (And yeah, Jay, I know your kids went to APS, but I bet they did not go to the worst inner-city ones.) When a school system votes in incompetants year after year and turns into the cluster that APS has turned into, some folks gotta do something, even if it is not right…………….Call it what you want, but a new company that brings in a few folks sure as heck is not going to move to Atlanta in an area whre they hit the inner-city school. Call it, but it is what it is. Macon suffers the same deal…….the Bibb county system is as (or more) disfunctional than APS, a feat unto itself! There is not an easy answer, but many who DO realize the value of a great education will do what they have to; it is painfully obvious that THEIR tax dollars are going to a cluster, so what do you expect? This is not saying all inner-city kids do not value an education….its just that successful people (black and white) realize they are fighting a losing battle if they stay on the same track! Brand me, cuss me, or whatever, but check back with APS in five years and see what a cluster it will STILL BE!
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
10:02 am
Fred really you think this is appropriate to spout off random accusations with no proof or basis. Other than you disagree with me.
“I would pray for you and your ilk except I’ don’t pray. If I DID pray, I would pray for fire and brimstone on your house and a swarm of locusts to infest you and all the folks like you who are trying to crush the little chance that poor folks have of getting any education as you suck the money out of their schools and funnel it to the pockets of rich republican supporters. You want to see how well “private for profit” education works (which this is nothing but a shell game for) then do a little research on the “for profit universities” and the 100’s of billions in defaulted student loans THOSE have cost us.”
You are sick and in need of help.
It is people like you with such hate in your heart that is the major problem facing all of society today.
This will be my last communication for the day with you. You have made your intentions known and it is not for serious discussion but it is to start conflict anywhere you can find it.
Good day sir
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
10:03 am
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:58 am
I accept your apology. Thanks.
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
10:06 am
Marty Huggins’
September 17th, 2012
9:58 am
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:50 am
And you show your @ss again.
I’m not a republican. Don’t have any ties to republicans.
But I guess it makes your argument stronger to paint me as such, especially if you don’t have a true rebuttle other than they should move.
Is it your opinion people live in undesirable conditions because they choose to?
It seems as if it is based on your previous comments.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah right. Nice try, but I see through you. Keep being deliberately obtuse and pretending you don’t see the satire in my and Aquagirl’s posts.
Are you JM’s uncle?
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
10:07 am
Peadawg
September 17th, 2012
10:03 am
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
9:58 am
I accept your apology. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++
Good. Thanks back atcha.
Go Dawgs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marty Huggins'
September 17th, 2012
10:07 am
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…
September 17th, 2012
9:54 am
No no not true Stevie Ray,
Already 2 posters have simply said they should just move!
Simple as that!
Also I have found out I do not have concern for these children, but I did learn that I am a republican who only wants to steal money from those who have little money to begin with.
bman
September 17th, 2012
10:08 am
I don’t know too much about this. The only area I’m certain they need to improve in are the school bus drivers.
We’ve all see the women driving the mini-vans. Now, they drive tanks.
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
10:08 am
You are sick and in need of help.
He wants to exploit the poor and I’m the sick one?
Gotta love them Republicans………
Fred ™
September 17th, 2012
10:11 am
Aquagirl: Don’t forget about Maureen. She has a very good companion piece today.
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/09/17/election-2012-does-either-presidential-candidate-offer-hope-on-education/