Truth is a sword best honed by friction
Just when you think you’ve seen it all ….
At the conservative Redstate.com, they’re seriously proposing to institute an automatic ban of any commenter who links to or even quotes a fact-check operation such as Politifact or Factcheck. In fact, it looks as though that’s about to become policy:
“As Politifact, and the whole menagerie of “fact checking” organizations have demonstrated themselves to be slavishly attached to the Administration’s nether regions I will consider quoting any of them, in a non-ironic way, as being evidence of arguing in bad faith and worthy of a ban.”
Now, the site operators have every legal right to set whatever commenting standards they wish. I just find that pretty remarkable. The conservative echo chamber in which you hear only those things that confirm your prior belief becomes more and more soundproof, impervious to outside input. But what they don’t seem to appreciate is that rhetoric honed to appeal only to those who already think as you do loses something in the translation to a broader audience.
For a long time, I think, liberals allowed themselves to get caught up in just that sort of trap, losing the ability to communicate outside their circle of fellow believers. Bill Clinton, for all of his other faults, was critically important in leading them out of that intellectual cul de sac, although it remains a problem in some areas.
Modern technology, however, offers the means of creating self-contained worlds on a scale and intensity never previously contemplated. And it’s a little frightening to see people willingly confine themselves to such worlds. Truth is a sword best honed by friction.
– Jay Bookman
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490 comments Add your comment
saywhat?
September 11th, 2012
5:16 pm
the stupid, it burns.
b-troll
September 11th, 2012
5:17 pm
can someone fact check Jay on this?
saywhat?
September 11th, 2012
5:17 pm
Denial is a sword best honed by fiction. Fixed it for you Jay.
JKL2
September 11th, 2012
5:24 pm
-Now, the site operators have every legal right to set whatever commenting standards they wish. I just find that pretty remarkable
Liberals: encouraging diversity by forcing everyone to conform to their ideals! They are only for “choice” if you are taking about abortions.
Paul
September 11th, 2012
5:26 pm
So no more links to
treasury.gov
omb.gov
The Statistical Digest of the United States
Encyclopedia Britannica online
Any major university history or political science department, including Larry Sabato at the Center for Politics, University of Virginia
Sigh. Once you demonstrate you don’t trust science, I suppose this was inevitable.
Joe Hussein Mama
September 11th, 2012
5:27 pm
Jay, can we have autobanning of anyone who links to townhall.com or Drudge?
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
SoGAVet
September 11th, 2012
5:28 pm
The truth is stranger than fiction?
Doggone/GA
September 11th, 2012
5:28 pm
“Liberals: encouraging diversity by forcing everyone to conform to their ideals! ”
Jay, don’t you just love it when they come here and prove your point for you?
Paul
September 11th, 2012
5:28 pm
Statistical //Abstract// of the United States.
Sorry about that.
But I suppose it doesn’t really matter, since RedState and their followers despise facts, no matter the source.
Paul
September 11th, 2012
5:30 pm
JKL2
Second sentence.
Ab-so-lutely amazing. Your only hope is for people to think you’re just trolling.
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
5:32 pm
I see this “conservatives” self-enforce this on here everyday.
For the great majority, it is “conservative” posters making wild and/or false statements and never offering a shred of evidence to back up their claims. Then when another person fact-checks them and proves them wrong, they either dismiss it out of hand, or more likely just ignore it…already moving onto their next false statement.
No wonder they want intelligent design taught in schools. Evidently science, made entirely of truth, scares the ever-living s*** out of them.
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
5:33 pm
“Liberals: encouraging diversity by forcing everyone to conform to their ideals!”
Yeah…truth tends to torpedo “conservative” arguments.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
5:34 pm
Romney sticker spotted
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
5:34 pm
Paul,
“Once you demonstrate you don’t trust science, I suppose this was inevitable.”
Nailhead meet hammer.
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
5:35 pm
Why are the people at Redstate so terrified of the First Amendment?
Very fascistic, VERY Republican and very sad…
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
5:35 pm
Jm,
“Romney sticker spotted”
Stop staring into the rear view mirror and posting while you drive. You’re going to have an accident.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
5:37 pm
The cons are turning on romney:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/mitt-romney-critics_n_1874573.html
One said shut down the party.
I agree.
The wealthy need no help from government.
The party is worthless.
Doggone/GA
September 11th, 2012
5:37 pm
“Why are the people at Redstate so terrified of the First Amendment?”
That has nothing to do with it. There is no 1st amendment right when posting on a privately owned blog.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
5:38 pm
Jc
9/11 – USA USA USA!
They BOTH suck
September 11th, 2012
5:39 pm
“Jm,
“Romney sticker spotted”
Stop staring into the rear view mirror and posting while you drive. You’re going to have an accident.”
hahahahahaha
Orange12
September 11th, 2012
5:39 pm
It’s raining Romney stickers.
It is the economy, stupid!
September 11th, 2012
5:42 pm
Sad. Very sad. What is next –security checks ??
TaxPayer
September 11th, 2012
5:45 pm
I did not expect less from a site called redstate. I’m just surprised it took them so long. I wonder when or if they will also ban any links to left-leaning or moderate sites.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
5:47 pm
Company parking lot coworker
Evil biz person no doubt
Doggone/GA
September 11th, 2012
5:48 pm
” I wonder when or if they will also ban any links to left-leaning or moderate sites”
I’m holding out for them to start banning “RINO” sites!
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
5:49 pm
“Company parking lot coworker
Evil biz person no doubt”
Or Jm getting rid of that box of stickers he bought.
Jay
September 11th, 2012
5:49 pm
“” I wonder when or if they will also ban any links to left-leaning or moderate sites”
Unless I’m mistaken, that’s been their policy for quite some time now.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
5:49 pm
WTF. 2 more Romney stickers spotted in the hood
Jay
September 11th, 2012
5:51 pm
Oh, and I believe folks were asking earlier about that sudden spate of $49,000 Volt posts?
Here’s the source:
“Romney, the best thing he can do is remember this election isn’t about him. He may as well be Elmer Fudd as far as we’re concerned. We’re voting against Obama. I don’t care who they put on the ticket, we’re voting against Obama. That has not changed, and there are more people now than in 2010 who are gonna vote against Obama.
And David Gregory knows it and F. Chuck Todd knows it. The CNN people know it, and the MSNBC people know it. That’s why they’re doing what they’re doing with the polling data, trying to dispirit you and depress you. Because that’s all they’ve got. They can’t sing the guy’s praises; he’s a disaster. Whether he’s incompetent or whether he’s doing it on purpose doesn’t matter. It ain’t working! There’s not one thing they can point to that’s working. The Chevrolet Volt? They’re losing $49,000 on every car!”
– Rush Limbaugh
Jefferson
September 11th, 2012
5:51 pm
I’m starting to think the GOP supporters are like the GOP, not too bright and living lies.
TaxPayer
September 11th, 2012
5:53 pm
Sounds like redstate and Scientologists, amongst other tightly knit and secretive cults, have a lot in common.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 11th, 2012
5:54 pm
Another thread today?
Them SOCV boys have been very busy of late.
Sounds like they are employing the same tactics that they used back in the early days of talk-radio — the producer merely airs the callers that she/he wants. That will work in their little corner of the interwebs so — more power to ‘em.
Jefferson
September 11th, 2012
5:55 pm
Anyone who listings to Limbaugh more than once, well you can’t help someone if the funked in the head.
Jay
September 11th, 2012
5:56 pm
And as to the Netanyahu/Obama issue, the Jerusalem Post explains its likely cause:
“News that the two might not meet came after tensions between Jerusalem and Washington over Iran burst into the open on Tuesday when Netanyahu attacked the US’s policy on Tehran at a joint press conference in Jerusalem with visiting Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Metodiev Borisov.
Netanyahu said that those who do not place “red lines” in front of Iran have no moral right to put a “red light” in front of Israel when it comes to military action.
Netanyahu’s words came in the wake of statements by Clinton on Sunday, and State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland on Monday, that the US had no intention of putting either red lines or deadlines in front of the Iranians.
Clinton said that the US was not setting deadlines, and Nuland expanded that by saying that it was “not useful” to be “setting deadlines one way or the other, red lines.”
If Bebe wants to play that way, he pays a price.
I’d say that if Obama is doing this on purpose, he should have done it a while ago. If it’s more than scheduling snafu, I’d also say that it suggests that Obama believes his poll numbers.
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
5:57 pm
Just sent Redstate an email about this matter. Maybe the fascists will soon ban those too…
They BOTH suck
September 11th, 2012
5:57 pm
“WTF. 2 more Romney stickers spotted in the hood”
Your wife’s car
and kid’s big wheel
Keep swinging
Granny Godzilla
September 11th, 2012
6:00 pm
Redstate just in time
Today, the 11th anniversary of 9/11 Dick Cheney publically chastised President Obama
get this
For not paying enough attention to PDB’s
.
.
.
Good lord almighty
Jm
September 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
The volt thing actually originated from a Reuters study
Not limbaugh
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
Jm,
“WTF. 2 more Romney stickers spotted in the hood”
If you don’t stop putting those stickers on other peoples cars, you are going to get caught and charged with criminal mischief.
TaxPayer
September 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
If Republicans had four hands, it would be a lot easier to keep their ears and eyes covered while continuing to discuss their “truths” in the open manner that we have come to expect.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
6:02 pm
Tbs
Remember I live in a swing state, not GA
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
6:02 pm
Limbaugh has no idea what he is talking about much of the time. Intellectual integrity is not a requirement for his audience.
Neither is a moral conscience.
I wonder what happened the aftermath of his losing dozens and dozens of sponsors after that depraved Fluke matter? Does Clear Channel foot the bill for the moocher now?
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
6:02 pm
“The volt thing actually originated from a Reuters study
Not limbaugh”
The original story may have…the right-wing echo however comes straight from the bellows of Rush.
Jay
September 11th, 2012
6:02 pm
Tiredofit, I think the Bush folks just didn’t recognize what they were being shown. You often don’t see something unless you’re looking for it. That’s a far more likely explanation than yours, I believe. I have at times been a harsh critic of Bush, Cheney, et al, but I cannot begin to think that badly of them.
Granny Godzilla
September 11th, 2012
6:03 pm
Truth.
A pretty gosh darn all-American ideal
Jay
September 11th, 2012
6:04 pm
and if you want a simple explanation for why that $49,000 claim is bogus …
http://grist.org/news/chevy-isnt-losing-49000-on-every-volt-it-sells-for-gods-sake/
Towncrier
September 11th, 2012
6:04 pm
“Modern technology, however, offers the means of creating self-contained worlds on a scale and intensity never previously contemplated.”
It also offers the means for attaining a great amount of unity.
“And it’s a little frightening to see people willingly confine themselves to such worlds.”
Well, in truth, it becomes wearisome and depressing to be subjected to and even engage in the kind of petty “dialogue” you highlighted in an earlier post (regarding the alleged divisiveness of Obama) and which can be found here daily. Why would anyone want to do that over an extended period of time? That is why I almost left this blog. But I decided instead to change my own behavior and encourage others to do the same so we might actually begin to solve some of our problems (instead of letting self-serving politicians do that for us – and we can see how that has fared over the years)
“Truth is a sword best honed by friction.”
Nicely put. I concur.
pogo
September 11th, 2012
6:05 pm
Jay, who in the hell has ever even heard of “Redstate.com” until you brought it up ? You seem to be in some kind of frenzy to try to convince your like-minded little group of liberals here by posting cherry-picked topics with poll numbers and pieces such as this. Guess what? As for the rest who are not your little gang, not many read you and those that do aren’t going to be convinced because of your over whelming liberal bias.
You can tell your adoring little bunch of elderly sycophants here what you want and they will accept it because they know they won’t have to shoulder any responsibilty themselves (either monetarily or socially) but one day your children are going to have to live with the consequences of what those like yourself and others decided they supported and that is unlimited government intervention and control into and of their lives. They will live a life of servitude to the government because there will be nothing left to turn to but that. They will be equal no matter how smart or ambitious they are. The government will see to that because after all, in Obama’s and you liberals eyes, nobody is smarter or more ambitious than anyone else, are they? Everyone should have the same. That is what you believe isn’t Jay?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 11th, 2012
6:07 pm
Jay, who in the hell has ever even heard of “Redstate.com” until you brought it up ?
That would be me.
Towncrier
September 11th, 2012
6:08 pm
“For the great majority, it is “conservative” posters making wild and/or false statements and never offering a shred of evidence to back up their claims.”
I can think of at least a half dozen liberal posters off the top of my head that would refute this general claim. Why don’t you conduct a random survey of, say, ten columns and see what you find?
Soothsayer
September 11th, 2012
6:09 pm
Since today is the 11th anniversary of 9/11, let’s all reminisce, what do you say?
Granny Godzilla
September 11th, 2012
6:09 pm
Taxpayer
Yessir ya betcha
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
September 11th, 2012
6:09 pm
Truth is a stranger to Democrats – too dangerous.
Common Freaking Sense isn't very Common
September 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
Jay
Can you ban the website stupid.con
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
Well, I don’t blame these people one bit for banning anything from these fact checking sites. You can’t hardly say anything on here without some librul saying something like “That’s not true and here’s a link to the facts about it.” Now I’m asking you folks, what good does it do to come up with a good argument if somebody’s going to come right back at you and tell you you’re twisting facts? Me, I don’t give a big f*rt about facts. I know what I know and I don’t need no librul proving I’m wrong. It just ruins everything.
I just wish Bookman would ban these azzhats that fire back and then give a link to what they call the truth. It’s so disgusting and it tramples on my Right to Free Speech. It’s my (Republican)party and I’ll lie if I want to.
Have a good night everybody.
Fred ™
September 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
Hard core, talk radio listening, fanatical republicans have to lie. What’s the secret there? Look at the ones who post here? Of COURSE they don’t want anyone calling them on it.
Jay
September 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
I’m sure the good folks at Redstate are chagrined at your ignorance, Pogo:
They claim:
“Today, RedState is the most widely read right-of-center blog on Capitol Hill, is the most often cited right-of-center blog in the media, and is widely considered one of the most influential voices of the grassroots on the right.”
Common Freaking Sense isn't very Common
September 11th, 2012
6:12 pm
Oops
Can you ban the website stupid.con
I meant stupid.com
My Bad
Truth is a sword...with a bit of humor...
September 11th, 2012
6:13 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdnY8r7_fLw&feature=related
JohnnyReb
September 11th, 2012
6:13 pm
In my own little echo chamber this past Sunday as I read the hardcopy AJC, I decided the fact checking pieces were not credible.
They clearly lean toward Obama and/or Dems. The Right will be ruled mostly false while the Left will be ruled mostly true under similar circumstances.
The “fact” checkers are not sticking to the facts and inject their “opinion” which just happens to be Liberal.
Fred ™
September 11th, 2012
6:13 pm
Common Freaking Sense isn’t very Common
September 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
Jay
Can you ban the website stupid.con
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dude, unless than N WASN’T a typo, oyu should have surfed stupid .com before you posted that. Where else can you get a toilet shot glass?
http://www.stupid.com/
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
6:14 pm
Towncrier,
“Why don’t you conduct a random survey of, say, ten columns and see what you find?”
It did actually occur to me to do this, but then really what would be the point other than wasting my time?
Fred ™
September 11th, 2012
6:14 pm
LOL Common? How about a mullet on the go?
http://www.stupid.com/Instant-Mullet-W-Headband_p_2902.html
Jay
September 11th, 2012
6:16 pm
JohnnyReb, would you like to cite an example?
jewcowboy
September 11th, 2012
6:16 pm
“stupid.con”
This seemed more appropriate.
JohnnyReb
September 11th, 2012
6:16 pm
One more thing – if you want to contact the fact checkers, one must do it with Twitter. What a load of crap. I don’t have any hard facts, but my guess is the majority of people who actually vote don’t have a Twitter account. “Tweet” someone? We have serious problems. Twitter is not serious.
Granny Godzilla
September 11th, 2012
6:18 pm
Jay
Pardon me, but piffle.
That’s their damn job.
I don’t mind trophies for just playing….but this ain’t t-ball.
Was it done purposefully ? Nah.
It was an epic fail.
JohnnyReb
September 11th, 2012
6:18 pm
Thanks for the offer Jay, but I would have to dig the Sunday paper either out of the bird cage or recycle bin. I’ll watch them going forward and keep the evidence for future debate.
Common Freaking Sense isn't very Common
September 11th, 2012
6:18 pm
Fred
I think Bro would look great in that.
Towncrier
September 11th, 2012
6:19 pm
Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion of Media Matters?
Bernie
September 11th, 2012
6:19 pm
The writings on the WALL for the Republicans. Their internal polling has already revealed to them the results in no uncertain terms. From now until November 6th we will see a range of emotions displayed. The first being Denial. Denial of reality for what it portends, upsets the balance of their thinking. ” How could I have been so WRONG?”. followed by “This is not right and how could this Be?”
These thoughts should linger for a few more weeks, as they slowly realize its apparent truth and occurrence. Mitt is not helping either.
Doctor, this patient is ready to be transferred to Intensive Care. all we can do is wait now.
Towncrier
September 11th, 2012
6:21 pm
“It did actually occur to me to do this, but then really what would be the point other than wasting my time?”
I am saying your over-generalization is false. I am asking you to do the very thing you criticize certain conservative posters of not doing: back up your claim.
Granny Godzilla
September 11th, 2012
6:22 pm
Redstate
Oh heck yes.
Erik the red from ga….if I recollect
Golly pogo, shame you haven’t heard of them.
They are groovy.
Union
September 11th, 2012
6:22 pm
im still waiting on the union.. err.. gm.. to pay back the money it owes? who cares about the volt.. its an ugly a** car…
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
6:22 pm
I don’t have any hard facts, but my guess…
Mitt Romney and the GOP love you!!
For RC and his clever, “It’s My (Republican) Party and I’ll Lie if I Want To”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIsnIt1p978
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
September 11th, 2012
6:24 pm
It is also worth noting that redstate founder and now CNN employee Erick son of Erick called sitting Supreme Court Justice David Souter a goat f*cking child molester.
Union
September 11th, 2012
6:25 pm
fact checkers.. again.. funny.. so you have a predominately left leaning group of folks “fact” checking.. heck.. jb cannot even call obama out on any of his failures..
getalife
September 11th, 2012
6:26 pm
I wonder if any journalist counted all the gop lies this cycle.
Pretty sure it is a record.
Still waiting on Paul to post all romney’s positions.
F. Sinkwich
September 11th, 2012
6:26 pm
Redstate? Really?
Redstate is a conservative website.
It is not even close to being as goofy as the Daily Kooks or that Huffington thing. But it has a viewpoint. Like your blog, Jay.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
6:26 pm
The original Chevy Volt article
Not limbaugh
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE88904J20120910?irpc=932
Paul
September 11th, 2012
6:27 pm
Jay
From your link:
” I find conservative hostility to electric cars fairly baffling.”
I don’t see why. They were pushed by the Obama Administration. Reason enough.
If that weren’t enough, they also lessen dependence on oil. Republicans seem to love oil. They have no problems with keeping an ongoing presence in the Middle East to guarantee a supply. Even though it’s cost us over a trillion dollars over the decades. And thousands of lives.
But that’s the price of cheap oil, as they say.
Towncrier
September 11th, 2012
6:28 pm
“In my own little echo chamber this past Sunday as I read the hardcopy AJC, I decided the fact checking pieces were not credible.”
Well, you don’t have to be especially astute to know that there have been a lot of alleged and proven errors by the so-called “fact checkers”, found by both conservatives and liberals alike. In my view, claiming to check the facts while being in error even once in a hundred times serves only to undermine your validity by quite a bit. They are by in large as unreliable as a single poll, in my opinion. Why should we pay attention to “fact checkers” we are obligated to fact check (because of their less-than-stellar track record)?
That Black Guy
September 11th, 2012
6:28 pm
Jay, can we have autobanning of anyone who links to townhall.com or Drudge?
____________________________________________________________
Toss in TPM, Media Matters, KOS, Heratige, Think Progress, Fox News, HuffPo, Britbart, and I could co-sigh that.
Jay
September 11th, 2012
6:28 pm
BTW, Crier, I should have said this earlier: I admire and applaud your effort at restraint and calm debate. Thank you.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
6:29 pm
CNN is showing President Clinton speaking the truth again.
He is trying to get the younger generation to vote and talking about student loans.
Billybob
September 11th, 2012
6:31 pm
if there has ever been a group that confines itself to its own little world they are called democrat liberal elitists…….also, nice projection of your own echo chamber bookman……that was way easy…..enjoy nov smackdown due to pres own words and beliefs……
pogo
September 11th, 2012
6:32 pm
And Jay, your little piece titled “Obama being the most divisive president evah!” really is a joke. Since you work in the comfort of the totally liberal editorial environment of the AJC and you are surrounded by like-minded liberal people such as yourself, I wouldn’t expect you to see or acknowledge what this man has done to this country. Since you don’t live in the real world workplace, you really have no real perspective of what your piece was about. You need to get out more Jay. Obama has divided this country down the middle and none of us are any better because of it. If he is re-elected, our country will fall. He is not a unifier, nor are you. You and Obama and your little stable of liberal regulars want division and will only negotiate on your extremist liberal terms. Nothing else is acceptable, is it?
They BOTH suck
September 11th, 2012
6:32 pm
TC
I think Media Matters is like News Busters.
Each seems to go after the hyperbole and lies of the side that against their ideology.
Billybob
September 11th, 2012
6:33 pm
academics have always lived in their own little worlds as well and we have an academic in chief…..see how easy that is……next
Jm
September 11th, 2012
6:33 pm
Volt debate
Marginal cost v average cost
If you want to just write off the cost of a billion dollar plant, then yeah they’re not losing $49k a car
But otherwise they are
Towncrier
September 11th, 2012
6:33 pm
“BTW, Crier, I should have said this earlier: I admire and applaud your effort at restraint and calm debate. Thank you.”
Thanks, buddy. I hope we can have some real discussions in the near future – a real marketplace of ideas – and get to some consensus rather than endless bickering. For example, I think JHM, Brosephus and I are in general agreement over national ID cards (to be used, among other things, for voting).
getalife
September 11th, 2012
6:34 pm
pogo,
“Since you don’t live in the real world workplace”
You mean Jay does not live in your make believe world?
Billybob
September 11th, 2012
6:35 pm
compromise with a liberal?……agree with them….
Towncrier
September 11th, 2012
6:35 pm
“You and Obama and your little stable of liberal regulars want division and will only negotiate on your extremist liberal terms. Nothing else is acceptable, is it?”
Over the top, pogo.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
6:35 pm
Reality: GM is losing it’s arse on the volt
Like it or not
Granny Godzilla
September 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
Fox news cuts from Romney speech?
And
Are you and yours assured of being able to vote? Drive an auntie and have tea and cookies, drive an
Uncle and slip in for a cold one.
Paul
September 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
Towncrier
” In my view, claiming to check the facts while being in error even once in a hundred times serves only to undermine your validity by quite a bit.”
I’m not much into infallibility. I think they provide a valuable service, in that they post the original claim, they they outline their sources and methodology. Then the reader can do a little evaluating to see how it stacks up.
For instance, earlier we had a blogger who used FactCheck to show the level of yearly debt accumulated by Pres Obama. Two ways to look at it. Several, actually. What we were discussing were his budgets – not the FY09 budget that was a third over when he took office. I can see the point if Obama championed any adds to include them.
But…. what FactCheck did was to begin counting all the $$$$ from the day Pres Obama was sworn in. I think that’s about the weakest example of counting debt we’ve seen.
Point is, they take the charge, provide facts with sources, then lay out how they arrived at their conclusion. It’s up to the reader to agree with how the conclusion was derived, or not.
West Indian Charlie
September 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
Leading conservative talk show hosts Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham are both arguing that the Republican party will or should be shut down if Mitt Romney loses in November — an idea that, however hard to believe, gives you an indication of the right wing’s dissatisfaction with the Republican party.
For the first time in my life I actually agree with this ignoramus. It would be a blessed day in America if this happens. This is from Politico.
TaxPayer
September 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
Friction is irreversible.
Jm
September 11th, 2012
6:37 pm
Obama: no redline for Iran
Dumb
Bibi: no red light for us then
Smart